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Middle Class

Posted by brightonborn (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 7:25

I was thrilled to hear the the State of Ma. newest elected female Senator Liz Warren..dodge a question by a reporter, when asked just what income bracket is " the middle class"? Because nobody was there to tell her exactly what to say...she could not give an answer.
The biggest fraud sent to Washington by the ill informed voters of the State of Ma.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Middle Class

And just what income bracket is middle class?


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RE: Middle Class

Yes, do tell us, since you seem to HAVE the answers, snarky though they may be.


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RE: Middle Class

According to Pew research, between 40 and 60 thousand is middle income. Perhaps they don't Google at Harvard.


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RE: Middle Class

I suspect there are other opinions on the amount....Mr Romney thinks it's $250 K.

I'm sure there is some sort of mathematical definition based on median wages or the like , however I agree with Ms Warren. Middle class is not defined entirely by salary....which by the way was her response (paraphrased) to the question.

I really respected Ms Warren's answer it was thoughtful and to me reflected the fact that she has thought about this issue in a much broader context than "Goggling" it.

Their are other factors that play in to determining whether one is of the "middle class".


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RE: Middle Class

Why do you object to Ms. Warren, Brightonborn and Mrskjun?

Why don't you make an actual argument and we can debate it as per the very reason this forum exists?


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RE: Middle Class

The biggest fraud sent to Washington by the ill informed voters of the State of Ma.

Care to explain your disparaging remarks about MS Warren, brightonborn?

Or is your real complaint the fact that she is a Democrat and not the candidate that you supported?

Care to explain what made her opponent, Scott Brown, so much better?

Remember now, he is a Republican that did his best to hide the fact that he was a Republican and claimed to be an independent voice in DC, independent enough that he mostly took his "marching orders" from the GOP.

Heck, many HS and college kids in MA referred to Scott Brown as "nude model boy". Is that what made him so much better than Ms Warren? Or was it his degrading and insulting treatment of Ms Warren that made him better?

Maybe it was his, sorely lacking intelligence that is the key to his being better than Ms Warren. His lack of intelligence and ability to understand that the MA voter wasn't interested in his snarky stupidity and whining about Ms Warren's family history claims, and they wanted to hear debates on the "real issues", not the made up whining of Scott Brown.

Maybe it was the fact that Scott Brown had done nothing for the people of MA and that he lied to them about being and independent voice that would represent them and he was not that independent voice and did not represent the majority of the people of MA's belies.

Please do explain to all of us, Brightonborn, what your problem is with Ms Warren and what makes he such a mistake and that the people of MA should have returned the candidate you supported, Scott Brown, to the Senate.


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RE: Middle Class

Middle class as between 40 and 60 thousand is silly in an area where the median cost of a house is nearly $400,000 like it is in Washington DC today. But it is certainly middle class in Greenville, Mississippi where the median cost of a single family home is $120,000. Image if someone with the median income of $28,000 in Greenville (having the median income should make you middle class) was to be transferred to the DC area without a raise in pay. Where do they live?

Yes there are people who make $60,000 a year in DC, but they are just barely middle class.


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RE: Middle Class

chase and kimka are right on.

:)


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RE: Middle Class

How much you make isn't as important as how you budget, spend, save and invest, plus numerous personal choices you make and how you live.

Often wages don't scale with regional cost of living, so people that live in areas with a low cost of living often live like kings on modest incomes.

Two of my tenants that work for Walmart make around 65K between the two of them. That money wouldn't buy them much house downstate, but it will buy them a whole lotta house and acreage in parts of Saratoga or Fulton County in Upstate NY.


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RE: Middle Class

Sore loser, I would guess. Get over it, do something positive with all that energy.

Senator Warren is absolutely right to "dodge" such a question. It's the type of question that is asked as a "gotcha." And look, it worked. They got brightonborn

Middle class is not so much an income as a level of living, and how we see ourselves. It's beguiling, but ultimately specious to try and characterize the middle class based on income/salary. As Chase says, there are too many factors to use just this definition.

Do you live in an area with a high cost of living - $60,000 is hardly enough. In an area with a very low cost of living, $40,000 would be considered pretty rich.

If you grew up in the middle class, you'll pretty much stay there, no matter how much you make, since that's the life you understand and will try very hard to live, even if your income falls. Plenty of young people, just starting out and making low wages, are still considered middle class because that's how they live their lives, that's what their parents are, and that's what they'll be sooner or later.

Plenty of old people, who lived securely in the middle class all their lives, but now have less income in retirement are still part of the middle class because of what they have from their past lives.

Middle class is how we look at ourselves, not how the government tries to classify us.


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RE: Middle Class

'Income' and 'class' are not synonyms - they describe different things.. In a 'classless' society like the United States it would be much more sensible to stick to the word 'income'. By design, Americans have no 'class' :)

Best wishes
Jon


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RE: Middle Class

Personally (not politically), I've always thought of the difference between middle class and upper class was not having to shop for an airline fare if you wanted/needed to go somewhere or being able to buy a first class ticket.

This post was edited by kimka on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 11:39


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RE: Middle Class

"Often wages don't scale with regional cost of living, so people that live in areas with a low cost of living often live like kings on modest incomes."

Nope. Low cost of living=low wages. It's proportional. I wish, if that counts!


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RE: Middle Class

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RE: Middle Class

Personaaly (not politically), I've always thought of the difference between middle class and upper class was not having to shop for an airline fare if you wanted/needed to go somewhere or being able to buy a first class ticket.

That is a different outlook. I never thought of that as a comparison.

It is a good example that everybody has a different outlook of middle class or upper middle class.


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RE: Middle Class

Yes, a good, confused relationship :)


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RE: Middle Class

Anyone else ever notice that the far right wing's hatred of democratic politicians seems to be directly proportional to the intelligence of the candidate? Elizabeth Warren being the perfect example.

Call me crazy, but I prefer my elected officials to be highly intelligent.

This post was edited by jillinnj on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 14:08


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RE: Middle Class

So ya think brightborn or Mrs will come back and explain what they think middle class is?

It's precisely these types of "toss out" comments with absolutely no substance to back it up that makes me nuts....well nuts"er".

Just shots... no substance, no argument, no facts...not even an opinion!

I recall a while back someone saying...maybe citywoman but maybe not...that liberals were reluctant to enter into a discussion with conservatives because conservatives were better informed....or words to that effect.

So bring it on!!!


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RE: Middle Class

Anyone else ever notice that the far right wing's hatred of democratic politicians seems to be directly proportional to the intelligence of the candidate?

Yes the dumber the greater the love....

Santorum..
."We will never have the media on our side, ever, in this country," Santorum said, according to video posted by Right Wing Watch. "We will never have the elite, smart people on our side, because they believe they should have the power to tell you what to do."

Bush Jr......
President Bush saying, "There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again."

Ronald Regan.......
"My Father at 100," Ron Reagan contends his father showed signs of Alzheimer's Disease three years into his first term. He said he noticed it in the president's performance in the Oct.7, 1984, campaign debate with Democratic challenger Walter Mondale.


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RE: Middle Class

How about....A perfect speech for Tea Party Groups.

Speaking to a tea party group in Michigan on Saturday, former senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) accused President Obama of being a "snob" because he wants "everybody in America to go to college."


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RE: Middle Class

This topics on fire! If your lucky bright will return!


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RE: Middle Class

If/when brightonborn and Mrsk are in an argumentative mode, they will return to the thread with some kind of response.
May take some time though.


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RE: Middle Class

I think our American 'experiment with democracy' depends on a healthy Middle Class. I'm very upset to see so much wealth within 'The One Percent' and a lack of the solid, well-paying, FULL TIME jobs that support a Middle Class life.


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RE: Middle Class

Tough even for those aiming for the top end of middle class students graducating with MBA's.

For graduates with minimal experience three years or less median pay was $53,900 in 2012, down 4.6% from 2007-08, according to an analysis conducted for The Wall Street Journal by PayScale.com. Pay fell at 62% of the 186 schools examined.

Then again depends on the magazine & the writer!

Here is a link that might be useful: Less Glowing


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RE: Middle Class

If you're over the poverty level, you're middle class, as far as the gubmint is concerned.

So below, you get food stamps, medicaid, help with rent, and so on. Above, not much.

The upper limit depends on who you ask.


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RE: Middle Class

Bright will have to turn into Faux tonight to see what the talking points are on "Liz". Was that supposed to be derogatory? I hate to burst your big Right bubble , Bright, but most of the country admires Warren and I am one of them. But get yourself a naked pix of Brown and hang in your room if you miss him that much.


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RE: Middle Class

I didn't take away from brightonborn's post right wing
hatred....sore loser.....was for Brown....or any reason to have had rotten apples thrown at the poster.
Just sounded like a comment about a Democrat and that was enough to raise the hackles here??????????????????

Now why would any one with any intelligence want to TRY
and have a discussion with these kind of mind sets.
Chase it would not be a discussion...it would be a
character assassination as usual because a poster made
the mistake of opposing a Democrat.
Read all responding posts.
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Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 14:05

Anyone else ever notice that the far right wing's hatred of democratic politicians seems to be directly proportional to the intelligence of the candidate? Elizabeth Warren being the perfect example.
Call me crazy, but I prefer my elected officials to be highly intelligent.
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Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 17:55

Bright will have to turn into Faux tonight to see what the talking points are on "Liz". Was that supposed to be derogatory? I hate to burst your big Right bubble , Bright, but most of the country admires Warren and I am one of them. But get yourself a naked pix of Brown and hang in your room if you miss him that much.
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Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 14:33

Anyone else ever notice that the far right wing's hatred of democratic politicians seems to be directly proportional to the intelligence of the candidate?
Yes the dumber the greater the love....
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chase
I recall a while back someone saying...maybe citywoman but maybe not...that liberals were reluctant to enter into a discussion with conservatives because conservatives were better informed....or words to that effect.
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RE: Middle Class

"But get yourself a naked pix of Brown and hang in your room if you miss him that much. "

Classless and crude...you must be very proud.


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RE: Middle Class

How's the 26 good deeds going?


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RE: Middle Class

CW try reading the OP. Is there one sentence in this post expecting a respectable answer. I am sure there was a smile on the lips as it was posted because he/she/it was well aware it was inflammatory.

It has been discussed before I had strong female examples in my life and I bristle when women are downgraded because of being a woman.

When women do it usually it is because they do not have a very low opinion of themselves. When men do it usually it is because they are intimidated. They are not man enough so they try to put a woman down to feel they have a little power.

If you think for one minute that the reference to THE WOMAN AND NO ONE TO TELL HER WHAT TO SAY was not a insult I question your pride.

This woman will give as good as she gets and take no steps behind to be belittled because someone has a problem with or being a woman. That insecurity needs to be checked.


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RE: Middle Class

Mom made a very good post, IMO, at 10:56...if you leave off the first 2 paragraphs, it was great :)

Then the nastiness started, as outlined above by CW, with whom I agree by the way, in her post at 18:42

Bright: "The biggest fraud sent to Washington by the ill informed voters of the State of Ma."

This was designed, again IMO, to rile somebody up. So suck it up. The reaction was so out of line as to be ludricrous. All of you who reacted so violently look damn silly. Except marquest and lily; that was normal for them, but the rest of you; egging each other on; really!


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RE: Middle Class

Bright...Actually I am proud of the remark just as you are in constantly bashing Elisabeth Warren before she even has a chance. I just get sick of the rightwing snarkiness. Brown and Warren...there could not be two different candidates.

Brush..I take that comment was for me. Very well, thank you. That said, I'm not going to let classless remarks go unanswered here.


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RE: Middle Class

marquest...Warren wasn't being "downgraded" because she is a woman. Where in this world did that deduction come from?

What does any of this have to do with you being raised by
strong women.
What you are saying is no Republican should never ever
say any thing negative about a Democrat woman whether she
deserves it or not because it is degrading.

Wish you women who were raised by strong women , which in turn taught you to respect ALL women in office would
remember that the next time you belittle ...degrade...
and heckle rudely a Republican woman.

I have seen some bad stuff come from some of you
women raised by strong women towards "other" women politicians.

Are you putting women who should be respected over on the Demcrat side and the ones to sling crap at on the Rep's?

I learn something just a little more one sided on here
every day.


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RE: Middle Class

CW, your always-fresh mix of naivete and "never say die" attitude are endearing to me.

Please don't say "crap"; it doesn't sound right coming from you ;)


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RE: Middle Class

"your always-fresh mix of naivete"

When you say "naivete", is that a euphemism for cluelessness? Don't worry, I already know the answer.


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RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 23:45

Yeah! Who are they talking about?


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RE: Middle Class

Oh dear!
This calls to mind a certain incredibly ugly, racist post by someone here who protests just a bit too much about the behavior of democratic women.

Remember?

Need your memory refreshed?

It is one of the few threads I saved and can as well as will provide a reference to, should the need arise.

The only thing worse than a fool is a hypocritical fool.


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RE: Middle Class

Warren wasn't being "downgraded" because she is a woman. Where in this world did that deduction come from?

CW
From your response that you do not see the problem says it all. Santorum was right, See I agree with a Republican.

Rick Santorum: 'Smart People' Will Never Be On Our Side


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RE: Middle Class

LOL , Frank.

Too true, Marquest.


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RE: Middle Class

I didn't take away from brightonborn's post right wing
hatred....sore loser.....was for Brown....or any reason to have had rotten apples thrown at the poster.
Just sounded like a comment about a Democrat and that was enough to raise the hackles here??????????????????

you have to be kidding CW to make that statement. Seriously, do you have a reading comprehension problem.

Brightonborn started he OP with the following sentence

"I was thrilled to hear the the State of Ma. newest elected female Senator Liz Warren..dodge a question by a reporter, when asked just what income bracket is " the middle class"? Because nobody was there to tell her exactly what to say...she could not give an answer."

She was "thrilled to hear" and then referred to the Senator she was speaking about as from the State of MA and called her "Senator Liz Warren", as well as made specific reference saying "female Senator" making it come across as degrading because the newly elected Senator from MA is a woman, first woman senator from MA, I might add. Then added the "Liz Warren" name to it instead of the actual name she goes by. Elizabeth Warren.
I have heard No one refer to Senator Warren as "Liz" accept for Brightonborn, and yes I live in MA and I vote in MA.

Then she proceeded to insult the intelligence of Senator Warren by saying that she couldn't answer a question because there was no one there to tell her what to say.

What a ridiculous comment to make to start with, let alone insulting and an insult that has been hurled about Senator Warren by other Republicans.

And yes, Brightonborn has stated in the past that she is a conservative republican, is from and has lived in MA, and I would assume, being that I do live in MA and have lived in MA my entire life, that she was either born and brought up in the Brighton section of Boston and or lives/lived there for much of her life.

So Referring to brightonborn as a conservative republican is accurate based on brightonborn herself.

And it is no surprise that she would be "thrilled" at any problem any democrat would have, especially if it supports her belief that the "wrong person was elected to a position, especially one that she voted in.

Brightonborn ends her OP with the following statemet:

"The biggest fraud sent to Washington by the ill informed voters of the State of Ma."

And that statement I take as an insult to me personally, to my family, to the majority of voters in MA.

Just because the majority of the electorate in MA voted for Senator Warren doesn't make them ill informed, and certainly not ill informed because they voted for Senator Warren, who happens to be a Democrat.

I asked Brightonborn to explain her OP and so far she has refused, but that is no surprise to the majority of us.

Her only explanation, I would surmise would be that Senator Warren is a Democrat and Scott Brown is a Republican, a Republican afraid and ashamed to admit to being a Republican and did his best to hide the fact that he is a Republican.

Scott Brown had a chance in Washington as a Senator, a chance to perform and do as he claimed he would do and he failed to do that and the people didn't want him back there. The people didn't like the campaign her ran, the absurdities that he tried to make as issues and they didn't like and approve o the insulting treatment that he hurled at his opposition.

Since his record in the Senate was not what he claimed it would be, he couldn't run on his record and therefore had to run the type of campaign he did to try and win re-election.
It didn't work for him because the people of MA saw right through it.

If that is ill informed as brightonborn as said I was and the majority of MA voters where, then I can assure the rest of you that we are proud to be called "ill informed" by people like brightonborn.

What would be interesting though, would be to have brightonborn actually answer my questions, instead of ignoring them, but I don't and I doubt most others expect her to either.


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RE: Middle Class

"Since his record in the Senate was not what he claimed it would be, he couldn't run on his record and therefore had to run the type of campaign he did to try and win re-election.
It didn't work for him because the people of MA saw right through it."

Included in the comments would be myself.

Scott Brown did not get my vote this time around because he
decided to appeal to the left instead of staying with the voters who put him in office first time around.

He will never get my vote again.

.


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RE: Middle Class

A woman senator, a gay senator...

I just want an HONEST senator for a change.


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RE: Middle Class

And what makes you think an woman senator or a gay senator is less honest than and "honest" senator?

Politics, by it's very nature, is dishonest. I suspect no one would actually vote for an honest politician. They'd never even make it to the primary.

Who exactly would they appeal to? No promises for changes for a better government that they would have no chance of implementing? No promises to cut spending on this issue and spend more on that, no promises to bring jobs or programs to the district? An honest politician would be a silent politician.

No...we want our politicians to be a bit dishonest, if that's even what it is - to tell us what we want to hear - about making lives better, making government more responsive, putting on the white hat and fighting the bad guys.

We know, in our hearts, that our representatives have a very limited ability to make changes, even the grand bargain eludes the President, but we like to think that at least our representative might have some of the same values and ideas about government we have, even if they lie about it.


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RE: Middle Class

Scott Brown did not get my vote this time around because he
decided to appeal to the left instead of staying with the voters who put him in office first time around.

What in the world are you talking about? He always attempted to appeal to the left? Didn't you realize that?

He did everything he could to hide his "membership in the GOP" the first time he ran. He never mentioned it and called himself and "independent voice" and would vote for the people, not the party.

OOPs that's called "appealing to the left" brightonborn, appealing to the independent voter that would have to be the ones to put him in office since they are in the majority of the registered voters in MA.

He did the same thing this time around as well, hiding his GOP membership and trying for the independent voter, not the "left" as you claim he did.

It's the same voters that elected him the first time that turned on him, the independent voter that turned on him Brightonborn, not the left. He was a phony, a liar and didn't do what he said he would do when he got to Washington. He wasn't an independent voice for the people, but rather one of those GOP lemmings that did as he was told the majority of the time and was not an independent. He didn't do anything for the people of MA, and the people decided he was not one to be trusted, but rather was a liar and they where not going to put a liar in office again.

They didn't like the way he treated his opposition and didn't like the way he refused to debate the issues.

Heck, he didn't like him, didn't like him enough to vote for him.

I guess one could call him a "one time wonder", a "mistake" that the electorate made, an "ill informed vote" as you call those of us that supported and voted for Senator Warren.

Now if you, as you claim, did not vote for Scott Brown, and you didn't vote for Senator Warren, whom did you vote for, or did you just not bother to vote?


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RE: Middle Class

It was worth every dollar I sent to Scott Brown to see the media get all upset about his taking over Ted Kennedy's senatorial seat.

Break it down to dollars per day like I do wardrobe choices and it was a bargain.


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RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 9:08

Scott Brown did not get my vote this time around because he
decided to appeal to the left instead of staying with the voters who put him in office first time around.

....well maybe the pundits are on to something, there is a Mason-Dixon war in the republican party. Interesting turn of events.


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RE: Middle Class

Glad it "worth every dollar" for you Demi. wouldn't want to see it any other way.

But, the "media get all upset about his taking over Ted Kennedy's senatorial seat"? Scott Brown that is.

HMM, I live here in MA and all I saw was media reporting the facts, certainly not upset at Scott Brown's election.

Are you saying that reporting accurate facts and accurate information is something you consider getting "upset"?

I guess you are easily impressed with a candidate that lies to the voters that he wants to elect him, is proud of doing that, and essentially votes "lock, stock and barrel" with the party he did everything possible to distance himself from during both of his campaigns.

Scott Brown lost because he is Scott Brown, lied to the people, lied to the voter, didn't want the voters to know who he really was, and didn't have a record to run on that would get him reelected in MA.

He was a one time accidental vote, a mistake that the voters corrected in this election, corrected by voting in a candidate that was not afraid to stand up to his bullying and insulting behavior that he used because he had nothing else to run on, other than tear down the opposition.

Glad to know that kind of candidate makes you feel good, Demi. At least you can't vote in MA.


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RE: Middle Class

At least you can't vote in MA.

*

I don't have to.

I can send money.


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RE: Middle Class

and that money didn't accomplish anything useful in his campaign. all the money in the world wouldn't help him out. He wasn't wanted, just as Mitt Romney wasn't wanted.

Just shows all the rich boys in the GOP that money can't buy their elections all the time.


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RE: Middle Class

littleone, not to worry. Money from California went to Elizabeth Warren's senatorial campaign. Her campaign most likely received funds from residents of a number of more progressive states.


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RE: Middle Class

Just shows all the rich boys in the GOP that money can't buy their elections all the time.

*

It buys elections every bit as much as for Democrats.

What do you mean, "rich boys in the GOP?"

We are continually reminded of the "rich people in the Democrat party."

THEY buy elections, too.

Just bought another for Barack Obama, MMm MMM MMM!


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RE: Middle Class

Some people seem to think because money can buy their love think it buys love from everyone.

I am not for sale and neither is my vote. Seems that is what happened in MA too. Money does not buy everybody's love.

Demi I guess you did not read that Romney spent more money than President Obama.

Do you know who won?
Hint: Not the one that spent the most money.


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RE: Middle Class

"I was thrilled to hear the the State of Ma. newest elected female Senator Liz Warren..dodge a question by a reporter, when asked just what income bracket is " the middle class"?"

An entirely reasonable question. But since granny is not talking, you can figure it out for yourself. Remember what Obama promised? There won't be even a dime of new taxes on the middle class. Taxes are only going up on "the rich."

If your federal taxes go up, you aren't middle class. Hope that helps!


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RE: Middle Class

It was worth every dollar I sent to Scott Brown to see the media get all upset about his taking over Ted Kennedy's senatorial seat.

Thanks for divulging how you decide where to spend your contributions to candidates. It's not based on who would be best for their state and country, but based on upsetting the media. By media, I assume you mean Fox or other right wing media based on littleone's description of the actual media in MA.


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RE: Middle Class

Posted by mylab123 z5NW (My Page) on Mon, Jan 7, 13 at 23:52

Oh dear!
This calls to mind a certain incredibly ugly, racist post by someone here who protests just a bit too much about the behavior of democratic women.
Remember?

Need your memory refreshed?

It is one of the few threads I saved and can as well as will provide a reference to, should the need arise.

The only thing worse than a fool is a hypocritical fool.
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I just stay worn out trying to keep you on subject.
Your mind wanders.

We weren't talking about me Mylab.
We were talking about:
"What you are saying is no Republican should never ever
say any thing negative about a Democrat woman whether she
deserves it or not because it is degrading."

THAT mylab ....was the context of this OP.

Not whether the "crime" has been committed by BOTH sides
but that it is one-sided from the Democrat point of view.


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RE: Middle Class

We were talking about:
"What you are saying is no Republican should never ever
say any thing negative about a Democrat woman whether she
deserves it or not because it is degrading."

THAT mylab ....was the context of this OP.

It seems to me the context of the OP was to slam a newly elected Senator just because:

The biggest fraud sent to Washington by the ill informed voters of the State of Ma.

And apparently slam the "ill informed" voters too.


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RE: Middle Class

demifloyd wrote,

It was worth every dollar I sent to Scott Brown to see the media get all upset about his taking over Ted Kennedy's senatorial seat.

Aside from the disturbing revelation that you take so much delight in causing other people distress that you are willing to pay for the opportunity, according to FEC records, you didn't contribute anything to Scott Brown's campaign. To what entity did you supposedly send money?


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RE: Middle Class

Well, it wouldn't be the first time a state sent a fraud
to Washington.
My state has voted while seeming to be full of ZzzQuil.

Didn't MA send my guy Romney to be their great Gov?????
Was that or not a mistake as said by some on here.
Even a country has been known to do that ......several times.


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RE: Middle Class

How did all your wasted contributions pan out for you in this past election, Demi? I presume you sent money to Romney and all the other GOP losers. That would just ruin my day...blowing my good money JUST to piss off Democrats. I am WAY too frugal to even give it a thought.

It's one thing to contribute to a candidate who shares your values, but to play a page out of the Koch Brothers' book, is crazy. To throw money at a very mediocre candidate whom you know little about compared to an actual citizen of Massachusetts,JUST to piss off Dems is insane.

BTW, how did it all work out for you? You lost money which could have helped REAL needs in this country, but you need to get retribution. But you guys could not buy the election, could you? Romney spent much more on the campaign and still lost by a significant number.


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RE: Middle Class

demifloyd wrote,

We are continually reminded of the "rich people in the Democrat party."

Who are you quoting? Please provide a link to the thread.


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RE: Middle Class

Factomen, how do you know my name to check to see who I sent money to?

I am not a liar.

Explain yourself--because it appears that you, sir, or madam, or whoever you are, are seriously out of bounds.


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RE: Middle Class

Lily--the great thing about this country is that we are free to contribute to candidates that we think can make a difference, and I did that when I sent money to Scott Brown--particularly with the health care bill in question.

The other part was just gravy.

I don't regret a dime of any political contributions I have made.

Apparently we have someone else on this forum that seems to think it's their business to try to determine the identity of posters--which is a sick, disgusting, low and stalking thing to do--it sure tells you who is making points for someone to go to the time and trouble to do that.

Posting personal information or alluding to personal information which someone THINKS they have found, or has found, and not shared by a poster, I imagine will not be looked on favorably by the administration of Gardenweb.

Why don't we find out?

I'll have to look up past threads.
Lots of them.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 13:05


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RE: Middle Class

Lily--sending money to a political candidate is not buying an election.

Do you hold everyone that has contributed to Barack Obama in the obvious same disdain, accusing then of trying to "buy an election" and do you accuse people who support Democrat candidates that lose of "wasting their money" and when they support them, wanting "retribution?"

It's a process. It's only one way we make our voice heard.
I wish it wasn't allowed.

But it is, and there are equalizers in the world.

Don't worry--I didn't back off any charitable contributions because of my support of candidates.


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RE: Middle Class

Lily--sending money to a political candidate is not buying an election.

Do you hold everyone that has contributed to Barack Obama in the obvious same disdain, accusing then of trying to "buy an election" and do you accuse people who support Democrat candidates that lose of "wasting their money" and when they support them, wanting "retribution?"

It's a process. It's only one way we make our voice heard.
I wish it wasn't allowed.

But it is, and there are equalizers in the world.

Don't worry--I didn't back off any charitable contributions because of my support of candidates.

Edited to add this question back to you--you lost "time" which could have helped REAL needs in this country.
Do you regret the time you spent helping Barack Obama get elected?


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RE: Middle Class

demifloyd wrote,

Factomen, how do you know my name to check to see who I sent money to?

Well, I assume your last name is "floyd" -- it's in your username.

I am not a liar.

I didn't say you were. Why so defensive?

What entity did you donate money to in support of Scott Brown's campaign?


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RE: Middle Class

You make a lot of assumptions you should not, Factomem.
My dog's name is Floyd.

I don't like the way you operate on this forum.

I don't like your assumptions, your comments to me or anyone else on this forum.

You are a scroll on by.


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RE: Middle Class

Must admit Factotem that checking the FEC to verify what a poster said is a bit over the top....quite a bit.


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RE: Middle Class

Demi, I want to make this clear. I did not stalk paulines, nor did I confer with anyone behind the scenes about her, I don't have contact with forum members save for two, not recent, both inquires regarding health, oh yes, one more a very short conversation not germain to this subject. Period. I do this deliberately, decided to not email behind the scenes the day I joined.

I did not scurry through past threads trying to ferret out the info,
I don't have the interest, time or patience for that if I think a thread contains info worth saving fo exact wording and context, for those very few which a very few I saved. Less than a handful in close to four years, not so many profound or saved words.

The outing of identity was done by herself, again, herself- in full view on the thread. I will not go further than this, other names would be dragged in. No investigating was done, it happened naturally and accidently from herself, just these things tend to.

Yes, I did do a nudge two or three times including the last, only when she began re-engaging. I don't read half the threads in here, time doesn't permit. I tend to follow a few.

I don't stalk, have never loaned out my idenity, have never posted under another name, if ever banned for good or for awhile I will abide by the consequence without whining as I am quite sure I will have earned the consequence and will not attempt to thwart the system of banning.

I understand that as far as the identity thing goes, of course you wondered. Frankly, I would have to.
I hope its cleared up now as I'm done with it.


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RE: Middle Class

Demi, I absolutely don't regret the time I spent in helping elect Obama again. Did it 2008 and again this year, and I will be working for whomever in 2016.

Demi, I hope you weren't referring to me, because I am not a stalker. I have never tried to find out anyone's identity and have never reported anyone to the moderators. I am in contact with no one on this forum off HT.


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RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 14:31

Well obviously "finding nemo" is not hard, heck anyone with a few rudimentary skills can do it, advertisers/corporations "find us" all the time out here in cyber space an then SPAM our email boxes by the sites we visit and/or post too.

Not much different than what investigators/researchers have done for years ... don't want to be found? Don't exist, cause if you think you are "anonymous" online you are wrong.

Also might not be a good idea to "share" pics of home, family/friends etc if you want to be "hidden" from view.

I have no reason to "look for anyone" except a few dead ancestors and wayward kin, and heck even they are "online" and simple to find, sometimes they find me :)


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RE: Middle Class

NO, Lily and Mylab, I was not referring to either of you as being stalkers or investigating the internet trying to find out personal information about anyone when they did not share that information here. Although we disagree about much, I don't think either of you are devoid of the character that it would take for someone to do something like that. I don't think you would do that.

Ohiomom--to my knowledge I have posted no pictures on the internet which would identify where I live--what pictures were posted were taken with a camera without the identifier on it. When I first got my Iphone almost three years ago I made sure I disabled the locator, but I don't post photos taken with my Iphone.

The fact of the matter is in the years since many of us joined gardenweb, technology has improved and information posted a long time ago can give clues.

The sick, disgusting, immoral and totally baffling act of looking up personal information on another poster, much less alluding to it, misrepresenting, or mentioning it is truly indicative of a person that is lower than whale excrement.

The more baffling thing is, why are people so obsessed? I can't keep up with everyone's name here, and although I have saved a handful of threads--they are that, a handful, and I didn't do that until not long ago. I couldn't tell you what they were about, probably an insult or two to remind me because I'm pretty quick to forgive and forget and move on unless it's a very, very egregious insult. There have been a few posters who have crossed those lines.

Anyway, I've said it before and said it again, it's a forum, for God's sake, no one here has said anything that makes me want to go find out personal information about them that they don't want to share.

That is just CREEPY and WRONG and IMMORAL in my opinion.
Also, WHY? IT'S JUST A FORUM!


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RE: Middle Class

" Now if you, as you claim, did not vote for Scott Brown, and you didn't vote for Senator Warren, whom did you vote for, or did you just not bother to vote?"

I'm sorry, whoever you are, it's none of your dam business if I voted or who I voted for, get lost.


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RE: Middle Class

So what's your point of even posting, Bright? Why don't you get lost?


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RE: Middle Class

Excuse me, please, brightonborn. I should get lost? I don't think so.

You're the one that started this thread, started this thread with your supposed excitement over some, perceived by you, faltering of the newly elected Senator from MA, and then proceeded to insult the majority of the electorate in ma with your claim that we are "ill informed."

Now that is an insult that is directed at me, whether you intended it to be directed at me or not. I am one of the electorate that you claim to be "ill informed."

Later you posted that you did not vote for Scott Brown and gave some lame excuse for not doing so that made no sense and was not factual except in your mind.

So the obvious response to your post about not voting for Scott Brown was to ask you whom you did vote for then, being that the 2 main candidates, Democrat Elizabeth Warren and Republican Scott Brown where not choices for you to vote for or did you not vote.

and your response to the question was

I'm sorry, whoever you are, it's none of your dam business if I voted or who I voted for, get lost.

I join lily in asking you "what's your point in even posting", let alone starting this thread, and inflammatory thread that you knew would get the responses that you did?

Why should I or anyone, for that matter, "get lost"? Maybe you should be the one that should get lost, since sure appears that you started this thread to garner the responses that you did.


 o
RE: Middle Class

brightonborn.....why don't you stick around for a few
years.

You would be welcome .
We like fresh faces and different views.


 o
RE: Middle Class

Brightons been on this forum as long as I have been usually a drive by poster!


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RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 19:56

Nothing fresh or different that I'm seeing.


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RE: Middle Class

Thats because you need to open your eyes...your mind and your eyes bboy...to different people and views.

This forum tends to lean so far to liberals that any new
poster that can bring an opposing view is like a breath of sunshine!


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RE: Middle Class

Happy birthday bboy!
For the record, I always figured you to be about a decade younger than you are, have no idea at all as to why, though. So, enjoy your free decade of youth and I hope your day really nice!


 o
RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 20:16

Happy birthday BBoy ... hope you had a great day.


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RE: Middle Class

"Breath of sunshine"( although I don't know how you can breathe sunshine".) That hardly describes the drive by, Bright.


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RE: Middle Class

Looks like the GOP has completely given up on New England. Probably not a good way to win friends and influence people.

Hawaii and Delaware are missing, too. Can Maryland be far behind. Only one Republican Representative.

LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


 o
RE: Middle Class

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 13 at 12:42

"Factomen, how do you know my name to check to see who I sent money to?

...Explain yourself--because it appears that you, sir, or madam, or whoever you are, are seriously out of bounds."

Agree.


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RE: Middle Class

These threads are almost entertaining.


 o
RE: Middle Class

This forum tends to lean so far to liberals that any new
poster that can bring an opposing view is like a breath of sunshine!

This forum reflects the lean of the country. That breath of sunshine was not very bright and the view was not acceptable. It was offered to the country and they and said no thank you.


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RE: Middle Class

The OP was an un-Warren-ted provocation from yet another sore losing Republican. It has been a ball here since the last election watching the collective meltdown of Foxbox nation.
They just keep getting angrier and angrier...
They remind me of that guy on CNN yesterday lecturing Piers Morgan about the Second Amendment.


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RE: Middle Class

I wish someone would give the link to Bill. I forget the guy's name, but he had a complete meltdown on Piers when I was flipping thru the channels. He's the one who started the petition to deport Piers back to England. So what happened to the 1st amendment? Oh, that's right...there are always exceptions when the 2nd amendment crowd wants them.


 o
RE: Middle Class

This link?

As HuffPost said - Alex Jones basically became (is) unhinged.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link

This post was edited by momj47 on Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 7:38


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RE: Middle Class

don - that is hilarious! And sadly true.


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RE: Middle Class

He may be "unhinged"--but that kind of talk is commonplace among the NRA types--the real gun-nuts who drive the direction of that organization. I've heard that exact, same language many times from the gun-nuts--for years now. In fact, I've never heard a moderate, reasoned NRA voice sustained for more than a few minutes. To me, having heard the Alex nutters too many times, he is the face and voice of the NRA once the "reasonable" mask is removed if you persist in disagreeing with them.

Kate


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RE: Middle Class

Yes Kate, I have noticed that too, even the most (IMO) truly reasonable, when pressed - but isn't that true of most very passionate topics for debate: the pro-choice issue, how we, each of us, choose to raise and educate our children, the political party of choice. I think that its anger based from fear on all those topics, the fear of losing something vital to the perceived well-being of the person or group.

Those who want to work on the gun question and save their right with resonable sacrifice - then IMO they must check their anger and over reaction at the door, maintain a calm and mature, responsible demeanor, denounce the NRA rather than join up for pete' s sake! and then, actively and vocally get behind the former Congresswoman, Mrs.Gifford and her husband' s work regarding this issue - immediately.

If people such as this man and this organization and the generalized angry responses from gun owing Americans continue to represent themselves to the country as the face of the American gun owner -as they have been since that school slaughter, I suspect that the beginning of the end has started and really - IMO you will have nobody but yourselves to blame.

I don't want to see it happen.


 o
RE: Middle Class

"'Income' and 'class' are not synonyms - they describe different things."

Nonetheless, politicians refer to "middle class tax cuts" for a reason. As a politician, it's in your interest to speak in vague terms, while keeping numbers (which have meaning and consequences) secret.

The term "middle class" is a pacifier for America's new majority, the low information, low curiosity voter. They simply don't know and don't care what politicians mean by "middle class." Shame on that reporter for asking.


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RE: Middle Class

Deport Piers Morgan? Noooooo, we don't want him back.....ever.
Oh don't get all excitable because he waffled on some obvious anti-gun tosh - the man is a smug wannabe untrustworthy media whore. Please keep him.


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RE: Middle Class

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 13:28

Thanks for the wishes.


 o
RE: Middle Class

Thanks for the link , mom. It was actually fun watching this guy implode as I suspect many gun whacks will eventually do. I'm not one of Piers's fans, Camp.


 o
RE: Middle Class

Just a bit over the top.

Where do these nuts get the idea that anyone wants to take their guns? I don't get it.

We get the same hair-on-fire rant from people on this forum. No one is talking about taking away anyone's guns.

I guess it's the NRA, fear tactics to "fire-up" the faithful, and the faithful buy it every time. Talk about gullible.

Though why we care about the NRA, with it's paltry 4 million members. They really are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, and should be ignored.


 o
RE: Middle Class

"Hair-on-fire" rant--

I like that, momj. Very descriptive. Can I borrow it for future use?

Kate


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RE: Middle Class

"We get the same hair-on-fire rant from people on this forum."

It is kind of a cute term, although I've apparently missed those "hair on fire" rants. Looking forward to stealing your term, though. Thanks, mom! :)


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RE: Middle Class

It's yours.

That showed up a few years ago, when we had that flu scare, to describe the news reports and telephone calls we got from "concerned citizens" because someone sneezed or coughed. It's such an apt description of this Alex Jones rant.


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