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Is charitable giving...

Posted by inkognito (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 19, 12 at 7:58

all it's cracked up to be? Some super rich ostentatiously give to charity while at the same time avoiding paying an appropriate amount of tax on their wealth. I am not saying they ALL do but certainly some, like Bono, do.

Clement Atlee said that, “charity is a cold, grey, loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.”


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Is charitable giving...

Ink, what do you mean, "avoid payng an appropriate amount of tax on their wealth?"

Would you want those charity givers to them to voluntarily send more of their money than required by law to the government? A government known for inefficient and bloated programs and waste and graft?


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Another liberal worried about someone else's money

Clement Atlee said that, “charity is a cold, grey, loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.”

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I am not interested in how Clement Atlee or anyone for that matter--a man on the street or a Prime Minister or a President, thinks I should help the poor with my own money.

Nothing makes his opinion more important than the person with the money when he's telling others how and what to do with their money. How arrogant.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

If we could just agree on what a fair amount is than that is the way to go IMHO...


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RE: Is charitable giving...

I see nothing wrong with it and actually applaud it. There is an absolute necessity to ensure certain charitable agencies are funded through tax dollars however directing large sums of money to charitable groups directly also has it's place.
It's money they otherwise likely would not receive.

I greatly admire wealthy people who give away part of their wealth to others. The tax break is irrelevant , it ain't a 100% !

Now what I do question is the suitability of some organization to be able to claim charitable status.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Demi: remember "Don't shoot the messenger."


I was not saying that any individual should choose either charity giving or paying taxes. The person I mention above makes a big deal out of his charity to end poverty in Africa at the same time he has taken money out of Ireland, itself not a wealthy country and placed it in a tax haven. As you say, this is all perfectly legal thereby making it the right thing to do which I disagree with. If you think your government indulges in corrupt practices this is a separate issue.There is also your claim that anyone concerned with equality wants to take your money that you seem to have accumulated all on your own without any interaction with society at large, something else I disagree with.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Parity, not charity.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Ink, I'm not shooting the messenger.

I just couldn't care less what Clement Atlee thought or anyone else thinks as to how I should give to charity with my own money, or how anyone should.

I never said if anything is legal it is the right thing to do, I have said it is legal.

I've never said I have accumulated anything without any interaction--that's silly.

But for others to claim what others have worked for just because others have it on the premise that there was interaction with others is just as silly.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

I applaud charitable givers, but I only admire this kind of giver.

The poor woman put two of the smallest coins there were in the offering box. The disciples with Jesus weren't very impressed, but Jesus said this woman has given more than any other today. How could that be? Jesus said it was because it was all she had.


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RE: charitable giving...

Wow you certainly scrambled that Demi.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

I just couldn't care less what Clement Atlee thought or anyone else thinks as to how I should give to charity with my own money, or how anyone should.
I think I've understood this point again & again & again carry on


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RE: Is charitable giving...

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 19, 12 at 9:53

The concept of service is what is important and probably what is missed. Empathy makes us human. If someone can be of service to some entity in need by giving money then good on them. Better they should choose the recipient of their service than have the state do it for them. The state agrees and that's why they give a tax break.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Pro-Choice Giver!


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Noblesse oblige we see how well it worked in the latter half of the 19th Century do I have to post those photos again.
I paid tax on $8,000 in interest to the fed for some bonds last year I didn't have to pay a cent to the State as my state doesn't tax that interest. That's legal.
Charity is often like good intentions a selective state of mind that can easily be put out of mind by a rerun of Gilligan's Island


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RE:giving...

I agree kwoods.

It is not a bad idea to take a step back so that we can see a bigger picture. Paying taxes or giving to charity to make ourselves look good is missing the point. It is a fact that wherever you find vast wealth you will find poverty and vice versa. If someone who has a pile of cash gives away some of it to help those without that is admirable but the bigger picture may explain the connection between the two groups. Paying the right amount of tax alone or indeed giving to charity alone will not change a thing unless we go to the root of the problem it will stay the same.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Paying the right amount of tax alone or indeed giving to charity alone will not change a thing unless we go to the root of the problem it will stay the same.

Amen!


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RE: Is charitable giving...

It's a good thing we have charities. Without them, there's no telling when we could afford to get our damaged Washington Monument repaired. Thankfully, a wealthy citizen was willing to donate $7.5 million of his own money to get the ball rolling.

FTA: "David Rubenstein, a co-founder of the Carlyle Group, told the Associated Press he was inspired to help fund the repairs to the 555-foot obelisk when it became clear how severely damaged it was by a 5.8-magnitude quake on Aug. 23. The monument received about 1 million visitors a year before the famous landmark was closed to the public after the quake."

It took a wealthy citizen to make protecting this national monument a priority. And it is clearly a "shovel ready" project that should not be put off. Since money is the problem, it would be nice if there were a hold on $4 million vacations for the first family. At least until we can scape together the money for all the repairs. The 99% don't get to take a lot of fancy vacations, so they really ought to be able to visit all of their monuments when they come from across the country to visit Washington, DC.

Here is a link that might be useful: Donation to repair Washington Monument


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RE: Is charitable giving...

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 19, 12 at 11:22

"Without them, there's no telling when we could afford to get our damaged Washington Monument repaired. Thankfully, a wealthy citizen was willing to donate $7.5 million of his own money to get the ball rolling."

I think this is a perfect example of Inkognito's point, until we do something about earthquakes what have we really changed?


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And how important is the Washington Monument in the scheme of life? Other than a rest haven for homeless and poor victims of the economy that surrounds them...from a safe distance.


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Only the person giving knows in their heart why they do so.


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Since the Washington Monument was originally started with private funds ??? In the context of need where does a monument fall? Perhaps it ought to be where it started-as the child of individual contributors.

For me one of the problems of private charity vs state managed charity is the chosing of who gets help-if only private charity existed a lot of people are going to get left out.

I have always thought that churches ought to not get non taxed status but ought to get endless tax rebates for charitable contributions(since there is a limit on how much a person can claim on their taxes) You dont get to claim fancy buildings and such-just real charitable contributions. It would solve a lot of problems.

I personally do not claim charitable contributions on my taxes. I think it takes out the positive Karma to take a tax break. We all need all the positive Karma we can get.


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If wealthy people and not so wealthy people did not contribute to the social landscape our world would look very different.

The arts, hospitals, homeless shelters, food banks, public monuments, parks, universities, animal rescue, school programmes....and on and on.

I for one will never question anyone's donation of their own money to anything they believe in and I certainly won't judge them.
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Nik, I will call you on the $4 Million dollar vacations for the President and his family. My understanding is that he pays for all his personal expenses and the taxpayer pays for transportation and security.

The President's family is entitled to a vacation and they are most certainly entitled to be protected from those that would do him and his family real harm.....just as ALL presidents have done before.


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Wasn't the Carlyle Group in the news a while ago for their profits from the Iraq invasion and occupation? So yes, someone with a stake in the Carlyle Group would be thankful to Washington DC for the money-making opportunity.


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I anyone had a job that aged them so noticeably within such a short span of time, they'd deserve a helluva vacation, too. I do not begrudge the President a family vacation.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Many of the things I donate - time, guidance, knowledge, self-sufficiency skills, research, solutions etc are far more valuable than cash donations, plus I take no tax deductions.

I like to help many of the working people that are trying to help themselves, yet are too proud to apply for handouts, or they fall through the cracks.

100 percent of my time, money, skills, knowledge, labor, equipment, parts, materials etc goes directly to the deserving recipients of my choosing without red-tape, waiting lists, administrative costs and other BS.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

Charitable giving is a way to get the money directly to the cause you support (for me, Alzheimer's Research and land preservation are two examples). Those groups may also get taxpayer-funding, some of which came from my own taxes. But this way, I make sure that they get some other money.

I see it as supplemental, not a replacement. In the case of the Washington Monument, I think private donations are good. When people are hungry, it makes more sense to put public money into feeding them, not repairing a monument.


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RE: Is charitable giving...

"When people are hungry, it makes more sense to put public money into feeding them, not repairing a monument."

I agree. If Americans are hungry, and our damaged national monuments are off limits to us, we need to get our priorities straight.

Maybe the latest taxpayer funded $4 million vacation for the first family could have been put on hold for a while.

Hard to guess how many more multi-million dollar, first family vacations will come and go before the American people get to visit their monument again. It would be nice to have our national monuments respected and cared for by the party in power.


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