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40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on
Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 11:33

Talk about a backlash! During the last election cycle we saw State after State try to completely outlaw abortion clinics in their states, declare a foetus less than 2 minutes old a person with property rights, require state-mandated "rape" with a probe of all women seeking an abortion, eliminate many forms of birth control, celebrate the murder of Dr. Tiller who performed legal abortions, and on and on and on.

Results?

Here on the anniversary of Roe v Wade (passed 40 years ago), the latest poll of Americans yields these latest results:

70% of America believes Roe v Wade (legalizing abortion) should NOT be overturned.

54% believes abortion should be an available option in all or most cases.

Looks like the extremism of the Right-wingers has back-fired on them!

But now we have work to do. Got to un-do all those outrageous anti-choice laws a half of dozen states have passed--including my own state of Kansas. But I'm happy to report that despite the anti-abortion clinic laws Kansas passed and all the death threats and other threats directed at the new physician that intends to re-open murdered Dr. Tiller's practice, Kansas pro-choicers are working hard to get abortion services returned to the state of Kansas--and it looks like we may win this battle!

Celebrate Pro-Choice America today on the 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade!

Kate


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 11:37


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

It's the law, and I understand it is the law and will remain so. But I can't imagine why you want to celebrate the killing of unborn babies like it's some reason to be jubilant.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

There you go again, msrk- twisting my words around so that they say what YOU want them to say and NOT what I intended them to say.

I want to celebrate our constitutional rights--the right to privacy/the right to liberty/the right to reproductive freedom which allows women to make their own choices (whether "yes" or "no," the woman makes HER OWN CHOICE) rather than having male-dominated legislatures dictate that women must carry pregnancies to term regardless of what their individual circumstances are, thus in fact enslaving a woman's body to the dictatorial will of the male-dominated State. And I want to celebrate the end of that horror story of history, the illegal back-alley abortion that subjected desperate women to torture in an attempt to control their own fertility.

No one is celebrating the killing of unborn zygotes and foetuses. We are celebrating the end of male-control of women's bodies.

KEEP YOUR PROBE OUT OF MY VAGINA!

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I believe it is a celebration of choice for women. The ability to make choices about their own body.


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There you go, esh. You said it so much better -- and more succinctly-- than I managed to do.

Yes, yes, yes!!!!

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

What's more, seven in 10 respondents oppose Roe v. Wade being overturned, which is the highest percentage on this question since 1989.

"These are profound changes," says Republican pollster Bill McInturff, who conducted this survey with Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart and his colleagues.

McInturff adds that the abortion-related events and rhetoric over the past year - which included controversial remarks on abortion and rape by two Republican Senate candidates, as well as a highly charged debate over contraception - helped shaped these changing poll numbers.

"The dialogue we have had in the last year has contributed - to inform and shift attitudes."

Thank you Republican candidates for contributing to the dialogue.

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Beat me to it, esh_ga.

NBC/WSJ poll: Majority, for first time, want abortion legal: Also today is the 40th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. And pegged to that decision, a new NBC/WSJ poll finds that a majority of American - for the first time -- believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. What's more, seven in 10 respondents oppose Roe v. Wade being overturned, which is the highest percentage on this question since 1989. "These are profound changes," says Republican pollster Bill McInturff, who conducted this survey with Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart and his colleagues. McInturff adds that the abortion-related events and rhetoric over the past year - which included controversial remarks on abortion and rape by two Republican Senate candidates, as well as a highly charged debate over contraception - helped shaped these changing poll numbers. "The dialogue we have had in the last year has contributed - to inform and shift attitudes."


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Is the unwanted child going to be a child that is raised in a loving home? With both mommie and daddy around to see that it gets plenty of love and education?

There is just a short leap from "no abortions" to "no birth control"

Ahhhh! The light is beginning to dawn! No sex unless you want children. That's a Right too.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 12:26

Why even Sarah Palin and that horrendous politician from somewhere in the south want CHOICE. Sarah wants the choice not to have an abortion, and he, apparently wants the choice to have "his women" have abortions. How many was that - two, three?

They both want a CHOICE.


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Heckuvajob indeed. I doubt it that the Republicans will learn anything from this. Back to flying under the radar it'll be.

What Esh said. It's about choice.


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Deeply grateful that our country remains civilized enough to cherish this essential freedom for us, our daughters and our daughters' daughters.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

And let's remind everyone that "choice" means "yes" OR "no." It does not mean that every woman should rush out and have an abortion whether she wants it or not--which is what some anti-choicers seem to think is what we pro-choicers mean.

The choice for YES or NO made by the woman.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Thank you for the reminder, Kate!

It is a good day today, after a wonderful day yesterday!

The fact that the Republicans feeling like they could say whatever they wanted and get elected contributed to the shift in attitude of Americans on this topic just makes it all the more sweeter. They are their own worst enemy.

MrsK - if that's really how you felt, I would think you would not be so vocal in your complaining about insurance companies providing birth control with no copay just like they do other medications. In fact, I would think you would celebrate that as an excellent measure to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and therefore the number of abortions. But, since that's not what you do, I find it hard to believe you.


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Let's be viligant and keep this right of choice and privilege for women, for the sanity and future of our nation. Let's not let it slip away. I fear some of the male attitudes of certain politicians, as expressed in 2012 regarding rape, etc.


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Do not ever let Roe be overturned, women. Obama's victory and his potential appointments to the Supreme Court will probably make Roe safe for a long time. By then the Republican party probably won't even exist. .


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

"These are profound changes," says Republican pollster Bill McInturff, who conducted this survey with Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart and his colleagues. McInturff adds that the abortion-related events and rhetoric over the past year - which included controversial remarks on abortion and rape by two Republican Senate candidates, as well as a highly charged debate over contraception - helped shaped these changing poll numbers. "The dialogue we have had in the last year has contributed - to inform and shift attitudes."

Thank you, GOP!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Sam miserable crew playing at the same BS

Here is a link that might be useful: Virtginia


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Labrea's link outlines one of the newest tactics for trying to run abortion clinics out of business--all sorts of new clinic requirements that they claim will make the clinics "modern" and "safe"--though they never show any evidence that the clinics are out-of-date or unsafe.

snippet--
. . . they actually over-regulate abortion providers as an indirect method of restricting women's reproductive rights. TRAP laws force many abortion clinics to close when they find themselves unable to comply with complicated, expensive standards.
......
When the Board considered the new rules . . . , protesters and women's health advocates were barred from speaking during the hearing, and only a limited number of people were even permitted to enter the room. And it turned out State Attorney . . .(R) was essentially threatening Virginia's Board . . . by warning members they could be denied state-funded legal services if they voted to relax the clinic regulations.

So the Board passed the new, expensive re-modeling requirements that are stricter for abortion clinics than for your average hospital!

This is the problem Kansas as well as several other states are facing.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on Tue, Jan 22, 13 at 11:55
--->We are celebrating the end of male-control of women's bodies.<-----------------
*********************************************************

This should be tattooed on every single sexually active woman's forehead so she can read it every time she puts on her make-up.

A man gets her pregnant.....the woman gets the abortion
and I can't even fathom what kind of a hell a woman has to go through to make that choice.

And then the liberals jump up and down celebrating because
a woman has the choice.

Seems to me..a male STILL has control of a womans body since it is SHE and not HE having the abortion.


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Duh. It would be rather pointless to perform an abortion on a non-pregnant person.

Kate


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Think maybe you must have missed the point Kate.
Maybe our daughters and our daughters daughters should
be reminded of who it is that has to carry the burden of
"to be or not to be".

So I guess at the end of the day.....its still the male
that had control over the womans body....duh.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Tis your opinion CW and it seems that you have missed the point.

Where most of us come from, "the male having the control over a woman's body" means something very different.

It means that a woman is under the full control of the male, that she has no choices, no control over what is and isn't done to her body, that she is unable to make decisions as to what medical care she may or may not have if it pertains to her reproductive rights.
It means that if a woman becomes pregnant, regardless of the reason, she would be forced to carry a pregnancy to term, risk her life to do so and she has no say in that.

And yes, CW, carrying a pregnancy to term has far more risks to a woman's life than terminating the pregnancy.

Since Roe V. Wade a woman has those choices and the right to make those choices, even though those rights keep being chipped away little by little.

You may not be able to imagine what it would be like to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy and the majority of us probably can't imagine either, that doesn't mean that all women shouldn't have the right to be able to make that choice.

And by the way, pro choice does not mean, as stated above, that we want all women to rush out and terminate their pregnancies.

All we want is for all women to have the right to make that choice if it is ever needed to be made.

One may say that one would never, under any circumstances, terminate a pregnancy, but that is easy to say, easy to believe.
The hard part comes when one is faced with making that choice. Then and only then can one honestly make that statement and then follow through with a decision, one way or the other.

All women should have the option to be able to make that choice, make that decision if circumstances arise and that type of circumstance occurs.

All the rhetoric, all the talk, all the everything and anything believed is just that, and until one is in that position, one never, ever knows for sure what that decision will be.

But what should never be is the loss of that ability to make that choice. No one but the women in that situation should be able to make that decision. No one has the right to make it for someone else or force their personal or religious belief on everyone else.

Roe V. Wade is being chipped away, little by little within states and something needs to be done to stop that and stop taking away women's legal rights and forcing personal and religious beliefs onto everyone else.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I'm so glad that no one is celebrating.

Here is a link that might be useful: non celebration


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

A little humor there, mrskjun. But the point of the video is to remind people that the Roe v. Wade decision was hard fought and people that believe in it need to stand by it, every day.

This video encourages people to sign The Reproductive Bill of Rights:

We the people of the
United States hereby assert
the following as fundamental
human rights that no
government may deny,
and that our governments
at every level must guarantee
and safeguard for all.

The RIGHT to make our own
DECISIONS about our
reproductive health and
future, free from intrusion
or coercion by any
government,group,
or individual.

The RIGHT to a full range
of safe, AFFORDABLE, and
readily ACCESSIBLE
reproductive health care
including pregnancy care,
preventive services,
contraception, abortion,
and fertility treatment -
and accurate information
about all of the above.

Here is a link that might be useful: sign it here


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

no one is celebrating

From the link to the video:

Published on Jan 22, 2013

To celebrate the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade we didn't buy a ruby. Instead, the Center for Reproductive Rights asked Mehcad Brooks of the USA Network's "Necessary Roughness" and HBO's "True Blood" to prepare a special video message just for you. To learn more and to sign the Bill of Reproductive Rights visit DrawTheLine.org.

The "Draw the Line" campaign began in October 2012, and from the wording in the press release, appears to be a direct response to anti-choice legislative initiatives:

10.09.12 - (PRESS RELEASE) Today, the Center for Reproductive Rights announced the launch of an innovative new campaign -- DRAW THE LINE -- in support of the Center's Bill of Reproductive Rights. The Bill of Reproductive Rights provides an opportunity for Americans to join together and tell lawmakers that they stand strongly behind a woman's right to safe reproductive health care.

With support from a number of luminaries including Kevin Bacon, Sandra Bernhard, Billy Crudup, Olympia Dukakis, Jenna Fischer, Caroline Kennedy, Lisa Kudrow, Tea Leoni, Audra McDonald, Oliver Platt, Martha Plimpton, Amy Poehler, Kyra Sedgwick, Sarah Silverman, Meryl Streep, and Louis Zorich, the Center is calling on women and men across the country and from every walk of life to fight against attacks made on a woman's fundamental and constitutional rights by signing the Bill of Reproductive Rights at www.drawtheline.org

Celebrating its 20th anniversary this year, the Center for Reproductive Rights is the only global legal advocacy organization dedicated exclusively to advancing and defending reproductive rights. With expertise in both U.S. constitutional and international human rights law, the Center fights to ensure strong legal protections for reproductive rights, and affordable and unhindered access to a full range of reproductive health care services -- including contraception, pregnancy care, abortion, and fertility treatments.

Across the United States, the Center has brought the full power of the U.S. Constitution and courts to bear to ensure that anti-choice politicians do not turn back the clock on reproductive rights. Just this past year, the Center's efforts have blocked extreme attacks on women's rights and health care in Arizona, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, North Dakota, and Oklahoma.

"Over the last several years, the increasingly relentless and hostile nature of the attacks on women's reproductive rights have been on full display -- underscoring just how critical it is to for Americans to take action and demand these rights be recognized as fundamental," said Nancy Northup, president and CEO at the Center for Reproductive Rights.

"It's time that a women's right to safe and accessible reproductive health care be safeguarded from the political tactics of those who seek to chip it away. It's time for women and men to send a strong message to lawmakers across the country that we are drawing the line."

As the country approaches 40 years since the historic Roe v. Wade decision, it has never been clearer what is at stake if the onslaught of anti-choice measures is allowed to continue. These laws -- such as forced ultrasound laws, restrictions on which health care services are covered by insurance plans, and zealous efforts to drive women's doctors out of practice -- place women at risk of grave harm, demean and humiliate their autonomy and ability to make their own decisions, and build significant barriers between women and safe reproductive health care services, including abortion.


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There you go again, mrsk--twisting words around to make them (seem)to say what you want them to say.

As I said above, we are celebrating women's freedom of reproductive choice.

Now how did you get out of that statement the idea that we are NOT celebrating women's freedom of reproductive choice?

Strange.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

duh nancy...no one is celebrating? From your post...

Published on Jan 22, 2013

To "celebrate" the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade we didn't buy a ruby. Instead, the Center for Reproductive Rights asked Mehcad Brooks of the USA Network's "Necessary Roughness" and HBO's "True Blood" to prepare a special video message just for you.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

no one is celebrating?

I made no comment one way or the other about celebrations.

I quoted you, MsK, and then provided information as to why the video was made -- fear of losing women's reproductive rights.

The video isn't about partying at gala balls, but a means to solicit signatures for a petition -- a petition to prevent women from becoming victims of the GOP's continuing culture wars.


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And having a man make the ad gives it added what?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Let's ignore her. This is the second thread tonight in which, whatever is said, she just posts an additional provocative jab.

Not even an interesting jab. Boring. Why should we continue to carry on a boring "discussion" with someone who uses whatever is posted as a basis for a new provocative thread?

Bye by, mrsk. You are boring.

Kate


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You gathering your little girlfriends in the corner of the playground Kate? I don't like her, so if you want to be my friend you have to ignore her. I may be boring, but I'm at least a boring grown up.


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My body; my choice.


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The Righties on HT can see the writing on the wall. The country is really center left, and nothing will ever be the same.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Talk about a backlash!

I wonder if these poll results will have any bearing on future GOP strategies, or if they will write off a good percentage of the female vote and take it in stride as they have done with the Latino vote.


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The cons are myopic!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

From what I've been hearing about their latest planning session, the Republican leaders are advising the Reps and Senators to stop talking about "rape" -- but don't change their policies concerning women's bodies, so don't get rid of the probes yet.

That should fix their "woman problem," don't you think, nancy?

If that is their general principle, then expect them to drop the 47% language, but to continue to try abolishing Social Security. And they will probably eliminate the "self-deporting" language, but continue to enact policies that cause emigrants to leave our country.

It's all linguistic cosmetics, ya know.

Kate


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It's all linguistic cosmetics, ya know.

The GOP doesn't count on anyone actually examining their record?

I can understand not caring within certain safe congressional districts, or safe districts for state legislatures. I could even understand - sort of, maybe - not caring for state-wide offices in solid red states. But for a national election, that's a big, stinky, decaying albatross to hang around the candidates' respective necks.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

"And yes, CW, carrying a pregnancy to term has far more risks to a woman's life than terminating the pregnancy."

Childbirth is also more risky than use of oral contraceptives or intrauterine devices.

The way I see it, there is killing for food, killing in self defense, killing in an act of war, killing for sport when we're talking about killing non-human animal life.

Killing humans is homicide.

If we are to believe that the abortion is meant to kill a non-human life (for those who believe that the baby which has begun is not human), which kind of killing is that? Certainly not food nor sport, nor war. Must be self defense then. Talk about picking on someone your own size!

On the other hand, if that baby is human, well we know what to call that.

No, Roe v. Wade is no cause for celebration. It's a very sad, no-win situation.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

The GOP doesn't count on anyone actually examining their record?

Apparently it hasn't been a problem so far.


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It's most certainly a cause for celebration & a cause worth fighting for!
There would be the head waggers bemoaning deaths from botched abortions & calling for greater funding in cracking down & increasing penalties for women seeking to end pregnancies.
The shame brigade!


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I don't force you to get pregnant - you don't force me to stay pregnant.

Choice. We all want it.
Force, we all fight it.

We have choice, that is the reason to celebrate! With Obama as president again for the next four years as demanded by the majority, choice is all the more assured to each of us, our daughters, or grand daughters.


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Well Said!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

elvis wrote,

The way I see it, there is killing for food, killing in self defense, killing in an act of war, killing for sport when we're talking about killing non-human animal life.

Killing humans is homicide.

If we are to believe that the abortion is meant to kill a non-human life (for those who believe that the baby which has begun is not human), which kind of killing is that? Certainly not food nor sport, nor war. Must be self defense then. Talk about picking on someone your own size!

On the other hand, if that baby is human, well we know what to call that.

Impressive straw man fallacy. Here is the core of it:

If we are to believe that the abortion is meant to kill a non-human life (for those who believe that the baby which has begun is not human)...

We are not to believe that. We are to believe that it is not a life -- not that it *is* a life but is not human.

Just to be clear: You are attributing to those who support a woman's right to an abortion a position they do not hold; specifically, that a fetus is a non-human life. You then attack that non-existent position. Therefore, your logic fails and your conclusion is voided.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

elvis...you have Joe College the factoid after you. lol.
How interesting is he.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

citywoman2012 wrote,

elvis...you have Joe College the factoid after you. lol.
How interesting is he.

Lots of insults, zero content. I suppose that's one way to avoid posting something you'll need to retract.


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" Joe Colledge the factoid"

Now CW, isn't that name calling?

So what if he/she is a college student or not. What if he/she is actually a PHD professor.

Why is that so important to you.

Does his/her questions scare you? upset you? make you nervous? or is it that you just can't handle the his/her intelligence and catching you and your "pals" in the false claims that you repeatedly make and then won't admit to?

Whatever it is, your comments, your name calling is actually quite comical.


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I do believe CW is intimidated by Facto.. I don't know why she care who or where he/she comes from. She realizes her and the others absurd claims will be challenged.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

All this squirmishing and name-calling doesn't change the fact that, as I pointed out in the OP,

Here on the anniversary of Roe v Wade (passed 40 years ago), the latest poll of Americans yields these latest results:

70% of America believes Roe v Wade (legalizing abortion) should NOT be overturned.

54% believes abortion should be an available option in all or most cases.

Thank goodness Romney did not win the election. On TV, one of the talk shows re-ran a number of his statements about how he hopes the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v Wade, thus making abortion illegal. Just think if 2 or 3 retirements occurred and "President Romney" had had the chance to pick the new justices. Egads!

There are no guarantees in life, but at least with Obama, we have a much better chance of getting a more liberal justice or two or three during his second term.

Kate


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Factoid....don't ever hold your breath waiting for me to retract any comment I make.

I'm like the liberals......I'm never wrong :)


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Kate, that was one of the top three reasons I was so dead set against Romney(like I'd ever be FOR him...lol). I know two justices will no doubt retire in the next four years since they are approaching 80 and not in good health. Can you just imagine if Romney were President?. We'd go back to back alley abortions because if a woman does not want to have a baby she WILL get an abortion, legally or not.


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Factotem--I wouldn't hold my breath as that one too has a long list of falsehoods and blatant lies, like posting an opinion from answers.com and telling us it's from Wikipedia.

'Thou shalt not lie' is for other people only.


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From what I've been hearing about their latest planning session, the Republican leaders are advising the Reps and Senators to stop talking about "rape" -- but don't change their policies concerning women's bodies, so don't get rid of the probes yet.

Told you so--they won't change, just go back to hiding it.


Don't mention the R-word!

House Republicans need to stop talking about rape.

That's the message GOP lawmakers got here Wednesday evening from Kellyanne Conway, a top GOP pollster.

Conway dispensed the stern advice as part of a polling presentation she made alongside fellow GOP pollsters David Winston - an adviser to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) - and Dave Sackett. The comment was described by several sources in the room.

Conway said rape is a "four-letter word," and Republicans simply need to stop talking about it in their races for office.




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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

"Abortions didn't begin with Roe v. Wade. But back-alley abortions ended with Roe v. Wade."

You can't stop women from trying to end their pregnancies and control their own bodies. Perhaps you'd rather they kill themselves in the process?


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With Obama as president again for the next four years as demanded by the majority, choice is all the more assured to each of us, our daughters, or grand daughters.

The single biggest reason I voted for Obama. Not just Roe v Wade but The Supreme Court in general.

And thank our lucky stars Obama won and Romney lost. I cannot even begin to imagine what the world I would leave my children would have been like if Romney got to select 2 or 3 justices. The thought makes me shudder.

Citywoman - why are you so afraid of facto? Does her truth seeking scare you? Does her obvious intelligence and knowledge of the issues scare you? It really is amusing to watch you and demi and MrsK squirm. Some might not like the technique or the persistence, but she never calls anyone names. Unlike you citywoman. And then you and your type claim that liberals are the only ones that call people names around here. Laughable!


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Ditto Jill!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 8:25

Citywoman - why are you so afraid of facto? Does her truth seeking scare you? Does her obvious intelligence and knowledge of the issues scare you? It really is amusing to watch you and demi and MrsK squirm

*

This vitriol and pettiness directed at conservative posters is unequalled by anyone on this forum from the years I have participated.

You are obviously very proud of that fact.

But you are mistaken, I don't squirm because of anyone.

It's quite obvious which posters are reasonable and which ones are here for nefarious purposes. The ones here for nefarious purposes are the ones that are wasteful of my time.

You would be one of those, jill.


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..." the country is really center Left and nothing will ever be the same...." About time!!!


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I knew this was a real hot bed when I saw the title yesterday and did not open. I am happy I waited. It is clear how the Conservative looks at this issue. It is apparent that 1) A woman does not and should not have control because a man has the control and a woman has no choice. 2)Science???? What is that? It is a baby medical science does not exist.

There appears to be a problem with progress from caveman time when the man went out to kill dinner and the woman could be beat into submission or thrown out of the cave if she did not service her man.

CW
A man gets her pregnant.....the woman gets the abortion
and I can't even fathom what kind of a hell a woman has to go through to make that choice.

CW, Your statement.....So I guess at the end of the day.....its still the male that had control over the womans body....duh.

Yes duh is right. I cannot stress enough it is not "a man got me pregnant and has control over my body" because I have never been raped or have not been a victim of incest. Then and only then would have control over my body. If we continue to fight for Women's rights we will continue to have control of our bodies.

Interesting that a woman would think that a man had control whether I had sex with him. Are women still a lower class entity that exist for the soul purpose of servicing the male species? A woman does not sleep with a man because he controls her to do so. Only in the case of rape and incest does a man controls whether a woman sleeps with him.

Under your analysis a woman never has the choice of who she sleeps with and should not have the choice before or the results after of the consequences of the sexual relations.

elvis
Killing humans is homicide.

To ignore Medical Science is not helpful. If we choose to be medically illiterate and ignore medical science and willy nilly choose our own uneducated science then....... Cancer is a living being and should not be attacked with Chemo, warts are living being that should not be removed.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

warts are living being that should not be removed.

*

Warts don't have beating hearts.


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So a baby is a cancer or a wart. Wow...no wonder abortion is no big deal to so many.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Labrea, thanks for posting the horror of what the governor of VA is attempting. As a former Virginian, I am shocked and disappointed, but know McDonnell comes from that Fundamentalist mind-set, so prevalent in the state of the Pat Robinsons, et al.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

So a baby is a cancer or a wart. Wow...no wonder abortion is no big deal to so many.

Msk there you go ignoring science again. Willy nilly assigning your belief vs the science.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

To ignore Medical Science is not helpful. If we choose to be medically illiterate and ignore medical science and willy nilly choose our own uneducated science then....... Cancer is a living being and should not be attacked with Chemo, warts are living being that should not be removed.

Ya Marquest...their lies are getting old yet are still repeated (see above). There is a solution though--back to biology class it is. Highschool level will do.

Sidenote:

If we choose to be medically illiterate and ignore medical science and willy nilly choose our own uneducated science then....... Cancer is a living being and should not be attacked with Chemo, warts are living being that should not be removed.

Do we have to spell everything out or what.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

It's quite obvious which posters have credibility.

You are one of them, Jill.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

demifloyd wrote,

Warts don't have beating hearts.

So you support the right to an abortion prior to the development in a fetus of a beating heart?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

mrskjun wrote,

So a baby is a cancer or a wart. Wow...no wonder abortion is no big deal to so many.

We're going to run out of straw.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Facto, now you're going to confuse them. They might have to consult one of the "experts" Fox usually has there to expound on this subject.

Women have way more power in this country than they did 40 years ago. We will NOT retreat, and no out of touch with reality party will force us.

Know how passionate the gun nuts are? You ain't seen nothing yet if you mess with our reproductive rights.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I grew up in a time when the well off less religious girls in the neighborhood went to the doctor that most knew would perform a D & C after a missed period. It was rarely ever permitted to go to the panty girdle stage.
It was Hush hush of course yet everyone seemed to know about him & these girls/women.

Nothing is going to be settled on here this is a slug fest by those who still wish to heap rebuke & shame on those who recognize the legal right to obtain an abortion.Heap away & continue to elect politicians who seeks to erode this right!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

An egg is not a chicken.

An acorn is not an oak tree.

A fetus is not a baby.

They are all POTENTIAL chickens, trees and babies. That's what I regarded the blob that I flushed down the toilet many years ago after repeatedly trying to get pregnant. It was a potential human being. You may believe otherwise. That's o.k. with me. But keep your beliefs out of the laws that govern me as they are not my beliefs.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Maddieathome, thanks for the refresher course of the link. Its not CW's most self defining thread she ever started (the racist rant she made, and the subsequent thread which went trolling for sympathy when called on it - pretty much defined who she was for me)...but as far as her dishonesty goes as displayed in this forum, it's a defining thread of demonstration.
How did you ever find that thread, I bow to your search skills ability. If you ever feel the urge to discover the thread where she explained her personal definition of what constitutes 50%, I would crown you Goddess Of The Search! LOL

(I don't remember the details of it, it was recently referred to in a thread, it was one of the most "twilight zone" kind of threads I have ever participated in or read)

If you read CW's thread link which Maddie provided Facto, you will perhaps have a greater explanation of why CW would consider that referring to you as " Joe College" (working on your dissertation) is considered by her to be an insult. Envy was proclaimed as one of the 7 deadlies for a good reason.

It also demonstrates again that sudden non-responsiveness to questions was taking place long before you got here and will be long after you will be gone, and WHY. Though it is being used now as a weapon against you now to try to make you go away IMO doesn't change that being unable to acknowledge or respond when presented with uncomfortable facts is nothing new.

Which is why I hope you will find another approach to dealing with this forum that will work for you and then stay on. That would be delicious, I love your ability to distill the claims down to the facts, just hate to see you to alienate so many as you do.
Ask for nothing, just present....everyone can read and figure it all out, including the untold numbers out there who read but do not participate.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Historical Reminder: Back in the days before birth control was readily available and reliable, a reasonably fertile woman would be pregnant every other year (and sometimes yearly) for the rest of her child-bearing years. How long would that be? Actually not as long as you might think--because getting pregnant every year of two--10, 15, or 20 times in a row (no exaggeration there, folks!)--is very hard on a woman' body and she would often die in childbirth by the time she was 35 or 40 (and having her 10th or 12th kid). That was also why divorce was so much less common back then--most men knew that the chances were that they would have at least two wives--the first one to deliver the babies and the second one to raise all the orphaned young'uns.

Just think of those circumstances--most women realized that getting married meant that they quite possibly were cutting their lifespan in half (assuming they would be fertile).

No wonder the midwife/abortion doctor was often consulted (secretly--although do note that abortion was not illegal before the 20th Century--but it was frowned upon, not "socially acceptable"). There were women DESPERATE to get access to birth control (which the Catholic forces managed to get declared illegal by the end of the 19th Century) and to abortion services-- BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO DIE IN THEIR 30S OR 40S FROM EXCESSIVE CHILD-BEARING.

Read Margaret Sanger's memoirs (very readable, by the way--she was a good writer). As a nurse and compassionate person, she was shocked and horrified at the many cases she was called to attend in which women, desperate to live, performed dangerous self-abortions and botched the cases badly--and all Nurse Sanger could do (by law) is sit by their beds, hold their hands, and try to sop up some of the blood as the woman slowly bled to death. She found those scenes so horrifying that she risked being thrown in jail (she was a couple times) to bring women news about (banned) birth control and the dangers of back-alley abortions, including self-abortions.

So were these a bunch of hussies who couldn't control their sexuality and "got in trouble"? No! These were married women who loved their husbands and their husbands loved them and wanted to have sex occasionally. But (to give one example) the wife had had many children (due to no birth control) and the doctor had warned her that her body was so worn out that she might not survive another pregnancy. He told her not to have sex with her husband for the rest of her life and flat-out ordered the husband to "sleep on the rooftop" so that he wouldn't be tempted to have sex with his wife--for the rest of his life! Well, he yielded to temptation, she became pregnant and tried, desperately, to self-abort, and slowly bled to death on her marriage bed, with Nurse Sanger in attendance.

Some of Margarate Sanger's stories of how awful things could be before birth control and abortion were legal and accepted are true horror stories.

Those were the good ol' days! Yeah, sure.

No one knows better than women themselves how serious and potentially tragic and horrifying these situations were and could be today if right-wing politicians were to succeed in abolishing many common types of birth control and Roe v Wade were to be overturned or so circumvented by State restrictions that all the clinics had to shut down.

And do keep in mind, during the past year, a number of right-wing politicians tried to accomplish just those things. A woman having little or no control of her body doesn't seem to mean much to them--but most women (especially those who know their history of women's reproduction) understand only too well why FREEDOM OF REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE is something to celebrate and promote.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

It's quite obvious which posters are reasonable and which ones are here for nefarious purposes.

You would be one of those, jill.

Well, what a nice thing to say from the person that is always nice and never insulting.

I do understand, though. The truth can be very painful. And it is difficult to support one's position when they have no facts to back it up. So, when someone shows up repeatedly pointing out your and others false statements, you get very uncomfortable. I get it. I would be uncomfortable too in that position. Lucky for me I use facts to back up what I say. And if asked a question, I answer it. And if proven wrong, I admit I'm wrong.

You know, it's nice to broaden one's horizons and learn new things. Sad that some are just not capable.

Thanks, maddie, I appreciate it.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Do we have to spell everything out or what.

I guess I have to....
Pulp Fiction.......
Three tomatoes are walking down the street pappa tomato, mamma tomato, and a little baby tomato.Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooshes him... and says, "Catch up"

So Msk, Catch-up........
I said if you choose to ignore science willy nilly I can also choose that you NOT get medical treatment for cancer because my willy nilly Science wants cancer to survive.

If I choose to ignore Science I can willy nilly choose that your wart stays because I believe it should live and continue to grow.

There are religions that do not believe in medical science and if you have cancer or any other treatable disease you should not seek medical treatment. Would you like that Willy Nilly Science imposed on you because of their belief?

Would you like my Willy Nilly Science being imposed on your life? The comparison is ignorant willy nilly Science and Actual Medical Science. Again I say catch-up.

Your position is not supported medically or legally. I would even say morally because you do not respect a Woman's Right to quality health care.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

mylab123 wrote,

If you ever feel the urge to discover the thread where she explained her personal definition of what constitutes 50%, I would crown you Goddess Of The Search! LOL

Here you go...

"There is a chance abortion could be over turned. A chance. Anything is possible. Chance means 50-50."

This post was edited by Factotem on Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 13:19


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

KEEP YOUR PROBE OUT OF MY VAGINA!

Kate

If more women had this attitude, we wouldn't have this problem.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 12:48

It's quite obvious which posters are reasonable and which ones are here for nefarious purposes.

You would be one of those, jill.

Well, what a nice thing to say from the person that is always nice and never insulting.

I do understand, though. The truth can be very painful. And it is difficult to support one's position when they have no facts to back it up. So, when someone shows up repeatedly pointing out your and others false statements, you get very uncomfortable. I get it. I would be uncomfortable too in that position. Lucky for me I use facts to back up what I say. And if asked a question, I answer it. And if proven wrong, I admit I'm wrong.

You know, it's nice to broaden one's horizons and learn new things. Sad that some are just not capable.

Thanks, maddie, I appreciate it.

*

Only in the mind of someone like you is it an insult to point out your mean and insulting behavior.

It's a reflection, lady.

*

Jillinnj, your continual unsolicited taunting of me is an old act by now.

Actually it was after you arrived and started it.

I'm not likely to take advice from someone that posts insults and taunts me, and is as mean spirited and speculative about my personal life as you.

It's odd why you are so obsessed with me, and frankly disconcerting.

You hold no interest at all for me--I've not commented on your personal life, I've not speculated about your personal life, and I don't harass you after you express your opinion on a subject. You aren't that interesting.

I don't demand you play by any rules or standards I make up.

It's perplexing why you are so obsessed with me.

In any event, I find your comments petty and not worthy of consideration.

I will be watching for more insults, however.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

demifloyd wrote,

Only in the mind of someone like you is it an insult to point out your mean and insulting behavior.

It's a reflection, lady.

I suspect jillinnj is referring to your calling her mentally ill, calling others "full blown nuts", referring to posts as "stupid", that sort of thing.

Jillinnj, your continual unsolicited taunting of me is an old act by now.

Actually it was after you arrived and started it.

I'm not likely to take advice from someone that posts insults and taunts me, and is as mean spirited and speculative about my personal life as you.

It's odd why you are so obsessed with me, and frankly disconcerting.

You hold no interest at all for me--I've not commented on your personal life, I've not speculated about your personal life, and I don't harass you after you express your opinion on a subject. You aren't that interesting.

I don't demand you play by any rules or standards I make up.

It's perplexing why you are so obsessed with me.

In any event, I find your comments petty and not worthy of consideration.

Yet, you read her posts and take the time to formulate these screeds.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Why is always about you, Demi? Every thread eventually gets around to you taking offense that you are being misrepresented in your comments, and then turning around bashing jill, Maddie, Marquest or me. .

As for Facto writing his dissertation.(haven't figured out where that came from), my take on that is CW is getting flustered because Facto's answers are to the point and succinct and refute everything she says. If Facto's indeed a college kid, he/she is a little long in the tooth since he said he was at an anti Nixon demonstration back in the day.

Dockside..the egg/chicken and acorn / oak tree are great analogies. There goes the tree if a squirrel eats the acorn. There goes the baby chick if I have scrambled eggs. A zygote is NOT a person, only a potential one.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

It's perplexing why you are so obsessed with me.

What's perplexing is why you think people on this board (and it's not just me) are obsessed with you. I've been reading that statement from you for a long time.

In any event, I find your comments petty and not worthy of consideration.

That's funny! At the end of one of your usual long rants, you go on to say they are not worthy of consideration. Matches the pattern, though.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

citywoman2012 wrote,

Factoid....don't ever hold your breath waiting for me to retract any comment I make.
I'm like the liberals......I'm never wrong :)

Mm, tu quoque fallacy deployment. But thanks for finally admitting that you will refuse to correct the falsehoods you post. This adds to the knowledge of why honest people can't engage in productive discussions with conservatives who share your behavior in this regard.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Ah Mylab, Factotem beat me to it. (Bonus: Note the thread title).

Here's another gem I found while searching for the 50% math: Why Do you Want Me To Answer Questions?? Stop it!!

I don't get the whining about Factotem pointing out errors and falsehoods. Me, should I post one, I'd very much hope s/he'd point it out SO I CAN CORRECT IT. That's how it works in the real world.

Yer welcome, Jill.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Sorry Maddieathome, Facto stole that crown right from under your nose when you weren't here! You snooze you lose, but for that other link you provided, you get the Oscar for Fabulous Researcher award!

Reading the "chance equals 50%" portion of that thread and then the follow complaint by CW that we are too picky about link requirement and definitions made me laugh, gave me a headache and made me glad for this "refresher course" too, all at the same time.

The whole thing is pathetic, and the line of thinking as presented by a few conservatives in that thread was an excellent demonstration on exactly why it was that we had to defeat nutty Romney and flat out scary Ryan.

Good for the voter majority, they listened to the R&R team, probably listened to the arguments like some conservatives on that thread and voted for the man they most wanted to appoint the future Supremes who will continue to protect Roe vs Wade.

A day to celebrate? Most certainly.

It is a day which celebrates the idea of personal choice over govt. force.

The country, its people and its needs constantly changes.

Adapt or be left behind.

R v W is a ruling *every* American citizen should celebrate, it represents the idea of personal freedom.
Especially all conservatives should celebrate - it is in accordance to the basic political dogma they, themselves state to best represent them.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

it represents the idea of personal freedom.

With freedom comes responsibility.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Oops, Maddie your post didn't show up for me until I just refreshed....but as you can see you won an award of equal standing, unless of course, you were really counting on having that sparklie crown!

If so, well.....Facto beat you to it *LOL*

Good link refresher contribution, IMO they keep the political perspectives from all of us upfront and understandable,.

Bill, what an odd thing to think.
I ask, where does the responsibility fall on this issue with the other entire *half* of the whole human race?

"If more men had this attitude".......etc.etc.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

mylab123 wrote,

If so, well.....Facto beat you to it *LOL*

I am declining the crown and pasing it to Maddie. My spouse says it looks dopey on me.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

With freedom comes responsibility

That word "responsibility".

And one would think that with Roe V. Wade the law of the land, the "holier than thou" right wing, pro life crowd would be all for both men and women taking responsibility for their actions.

But heck, instead of a push and funding for birth control access at a reasonable cost, sex education in our schools, the obvious and intelligent actions that would lessen the likely hood and number of legal terminations of pregnancies, they "holier than thou" crowd does exactly the opposite.

Heck it does everything possible to increase the number of legal terminations of pregnancies, deny affordable access to birth control, stop sex education in our schools.

And why do they do this? Because they want to force all women to suffer, yes suffer under their personal and religious beliefs and not have the freedom to make decisions on their own about what happens to their own bodies, their own reproductive rights, because they aren't intelligent enough to make those decisions and someone else must make them for them.

How pathetic, how insulting, how demeaning the right wing is to think and believe that women are not capable of making decisions on their own and think so because the decisions just might be different than their own personal beliefs.

As has always been said and always will be said, the pro choice belief is simple, all women have the right to determine what is and isn't best for themselves, their health care, their own bodies. No one is forced to do anything against their will, their own personal beliefs or anything else.

On the other hand the anti choice crew demands that their personal and religious beliefs be choked down the throats of every woman in this country, no matter what. And if they had their full way, full control, there would be no exceptions, not ifs and or buts about it. Wouldn't matter how you got pregnant, what the risks to a woman's life would be to carry that pregnancy to term, unborn fetus must live no matter what. Heck with the fact that the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, whether the pregnancy will kill a woman, or the "woman" is only 11, 12, 13. Who cares, got to give life to "the unborn", even if it kills another life.

Talk about civil rights, talk about human rights, talk about slavery, and that folks is just what it is, a combination of all 3 when any woman is forced to carry a pregnancy to term because a segment of the population gets to force their personal and religious beliefs down the throat of the majority.

That "grand ole Party", the GOP, they just don't get it. Woman are not some kind of object that the "old white man" of the party and it's new members, the
Evangelical Religious right, TeaParty crew can control now.

The "cat got out of the bag", 40 years ago and women where liberated and apparently the GOP doesn't get it, women are fighting back and will not sit back and allow their rights to be taken away.

Just look at what has been happening, the GOP is not winning and is not gaining support from women. They have turned their backs on the party.

If the GOP wants to make themselves the party of essentially no female support, go for it. Sounds great to me and to most women.

Roe V. Wade is the law of the land and it isn't going to be over turned. Women will not stand for it and the public, the people, the electorate will not stand for it either.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Woman are not some kind of object that the "old white man" of the party and it's new members, the
Evangelical Religious right, TeaParty crew can control now.

And whether or not babies needlessly die shouldn't be something WOMEN control, either. Maternal, my a$$.

And y'all can flame me all you want. It just goes to strengthen my point.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I wish more consideration were given to those women who had to choose abortion if they wished to save their lives. So little thought is given to medically-complicated pregnancies that endanger the woman's life, and to how many women were sacrificed for the wrong-headed sanctity of the fetus over the mothers' lives.

Kate mentions this in her comments on Margaret Sanger, and recently there was a thread re the woman who died in Ireland because the life-saving abortion she needed was illegal.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I'll be happy if the GOP wants to make themselves the party of no female support. Since women elected Obama, they will surely work in droves to keep Roe and to elect the candidates who share their values.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Mylab yer cracking me up!

And whether or not babies needlessly die shouldn't be something WOMEN control, either. Maternal, my a$$.

Bill you have the biology wrong. Last time I checked, infanticide's illegal in the US, too.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by dockside (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 12:25

".......But keep your beliefs out of the laws that govern me as they are not my beliefs".
Well said Dockside.

I was thinking that this sounds like the argument used by the gun nuts.


~Ann


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

And whether or not babies needlessly die shouldn't be something WOMEN control, either. Maternal, my a$$.

And y'all can flame me all you want. It just goes to strengthen my a$$.

Tis your opinion Bill, the opinion of the anti choice crew, tis not the belief of everyone.

Zygotes are not babies, neither is the fetus unless it can survive on it's own.

Not all people or religions believe that life begins at conception or even that sperm and ova are "potential babies".

You have the right to believe as you wish, you don't have the right nor should you or anyone else, ever have the right to force those views that you hold onto anyone else.

Nor should any woman be forced to carry a pregnancy to term against her will or to sacrifice her life for the sake of an unborn fetus.
No one has the right to decide whom is more important, the woman carrying the fetus or the fetus, the so called unborn, except for the woman herself.

As maddie said, "your biology is wrong". "infanticide's illegal in the US too."


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

And y'all can flame me all you want. It just goes to strengthen my point.

Bill I would not flame you.......

Because the argument is that men are making the decision about women's body. You serve as an example of that problem.

A position few men fully understand. Although there are men that respect their women and get that she is intelligent and they value her life, and decisions she may need to make for that life. Those men fully support a woman's right and he is proud to have an intelligent, responsible woman in his life.

It is the same argument of the frustration you have as to why some do not understand your right being taken away to carry a gun. It could be said maybe you do not feel like a man if you do not have a gun, you feel vulnerable if you do not have a gun, it is your right to have a gun etc. Without the pleasure of being a woman you cannot truly feel the passion a woman has that someone would take her right away to liberty, and life. The life that only she and her doctor should have input.

I do question if you are concerned with taking a life I guess it is timing when you take a life since you would not have a problem with using your gun. I have not seen any guns that can carry a baby for 9 months and have nipples.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Well stated, Marquest. The gun nuts have a HUGE problem with anything infringing on their right to bear arms. We women feel the same. Do not infringe on our reproductive rights. You don't have that right. Until a zygote, embryo, or fetus can survive on it's own, it is not a sustainable person.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I am so thankful I have managed to travel through my life with abundance of humor.

This forum gives me more laughs than a good comedy at the theater.
All one has to do is just sit back and read post after post from "the usual" bunch
and every post is an "omgosh" moment.

My posts that you liberals save and cherish like a lover
holding onto momentoes can't hold a candle (so to speak)
to the unbelievable tripe some of you go on and on with.

What I find the most amusing is the cheer section some of the down right goof-balls
have with the big slap on the backs.

This is not a forum for anything but laughs.
It keeps me coming back.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Glad we can entertain you as much as you do us, CW.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

citywoman 2012 wrote,

I am so thankful I have managed to travel through my life with abundance of humor.
This forum gives me more laughs than a good comedy at the theater.
All one has to do is just sit back and read post after post from "the usual" bunch
and every post is an "omgosh" moment.

My posts that you liberals save and cherish like a lover
holding onto momentoes can't hold a candle (so to speak)
to the unbelievable tripe some of you go on and on with.

What I find the most amusing is the cheer section some of the down right goof-balls
have with the big slap on the backs.

This is not a forum for anything but laughs.
It keeps me coming back.

100% insults, 0% content. Is this a typical conservative utterance profile?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

When all eles fails claim to be amused!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

For once we agree, cw. I find your posts equally amusing.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Citywoman, I may not always agree with what you post (and that's ok), I do always look forward to your 'take' on subjects.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I am so thankful I have managed to travel through my life with abundance of humor.

I agree the back peddling on cash payments to household help to avoid taxes was hilarious. I am still working on that issue. Our gov should not be cheated we have a huge deficit.

We are going to need as much money as possible to care for all the babies that these poor women are unable to care for properly.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on Wed, Jan 23, 13 at 13:20

"KEEP YOUR PROBE OUT OF MY VAGINA!
Kate"

Bill: "If more women had this attitude, we wouldn't have this problem."

No kidding. I've alluded to this before. That and the control thing. Lack of control leading to unwanted pregnancy followed by desire for control to fix their mistake, at another life's expense. It's all about me, me, me. Instant gratification: sex now, freedom from that pesky person-to-be NOW. Just kill it, whatever it is.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

You are entitled to your belief, but not to legally impose it on other women, thanks to Roe v Wade.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

We'll have to agree to disagree, Kate. I'm on the little fella's side, whatever IT is.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

elvis....I love how you just expressed your feelings.
"I'm on the little fella's side, whatever IT is."

That says alot about what kind of person you are.
My respect for you just hit the bell .

You are standing on the side for babies with no voice.
I honestly don't think RoevWade will ever be overturned
but you will not have to answer at the end of the day for
others choices.

Sometime what we believe might be unpopular but that doesn't mean what we believe is wrong.
As my mother use to say...."trust your gut feeling".

I am a pushover for the underdog.
You can imagine my feelings regarding abortion.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Citywoman2012 wrote,

I honestly don't think RoevWade will ever be overturned
but you will not have to answer at the end of the day for
others choices.

I am proud to answer for the availability of others' choices.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Good grief!

Has anybody seen my hip waders?
Anybody at all??


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Sometime what we believe might be unpopular but that doesn't mean what we believe is wrong.
As my mother use to say...."trust your gut feeling".

Same thing could be said from those of us that are pro choice too. Did you realize that CW?

you will not have to answer at the end of the day for
others choices.

Neither will I or any other pro choice believer, CW.

That's because we won't have to justify forcing women to become "human incubators" and risk their lives because there is a group of people, mostly men, that want to control a woman's body, don't believe she has the intelligence to make decisions that are best for herself and her body and therefore must become some kind of subservient, sub human being that must be controlled by others and have her life and medical care dictated and controlled by others.

We won't have to attempt to justify why we supported the death of a woman, a mother of already born, living children, because some group said this woman's life, this mother's life is not worthy and therefore she must die and her unborn fetus must live.
We won't have to justify supporting that kind of belief as someone tries to explain to grief stricken children and husband that there wife/mother is not worthy of living, but their son/daughter, sibling was more important.

Wonder what those children will think, how they will treat their sibling that is alive at the expense of their mother. That this sibling is the cause of their mother's death. and how will this sibling's father respond to the child that cost him his wife and the mother of his children.

Heck, just a few reasons why those of us that are pro choice wont' have to answer to anything or anyone at the end of the day.

And please do not come back and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about with this potential scenarios, because I do, I've seen them happen, worked, professionally, with the children who hated their sibling because of the loss of their mother, as well as the husband, the widower who couldn't look at, deal with, take care of that child that was believed to be "the cause of the death of his wife, the mother of his children, thought of as "a murderer" and in the long run, that child, that son/daughter, that sibling was put up for adoption. So many times this happens.

What one needs to remember is that there are very real people directly involved in the decision to terminate a pregnancy or to carry a pregnancy to term and it is a difficult decision to make.
It's a decision that is not made lightly, I've never seen or talked with or dealt with any woman or couple for that matter, that made the decision to terminate or not to terminate lightly and that is in over 30 years.

This is a medical decision to make, not a religious decision, not a political decision and attempting to turn into a political one now, as it has become is so wrong.

No one is forcing anyone to terminate a pregnancy. Why is that so difficult to understand.

So you don't believe a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy, except under certain conditions or not at all.

So you believe that terminating a pregnancy is murder.

Fine believe those things, no one is trying to stop you form doing so, it is your right to believe that way, legal and otherwise.

Where your rights stop and need to stop is at that point, what you believe.

You don't have the right, never should have and I pray to god never will have again, the right to force those beliefs of yours on to anyone, including your own spouse, sibling, or any other female relative.

Your beliefs are no more superior than those you disagree with, and yet it is your side, the so called "pro-life" side that is attempting to say and force your beliefs onto everyone else.

And Bill,

And y'all can flame me all you want. It just goes to strengthen my point.

We aren't flaming you and we aren't strengthening your point. You see, from where I stand, from where everyone I know who is pro choice, we all see and hear the same thing.

The same hypocritical beliefs. The same "abortion is murder, the unborn have the right to live, the unborn have to be protected, the unborn, the most innocent of all".

All those claims, yet oops, yup oops, the hypocritical beliefs come pouring out. All that stuff claimed, and then we hear "except in the case of rape, incest, or the life of the mother."

In other words, those "unborn" heck they don't count, it isn't murder when it's that kind of unborn. Yeah a good portion of you pro choice believe that stuff.

And you want to be taken as credible people, credible believers as you actually are claiming only certain terminations of pregnancy are murder and others are not.
Yup, it's called hypocritical, phony, absurd too.

Did you get a good laugh out of this post CW? So nice to know that most of us can accommodate your pleasures and give you your laughs for the day.

The same can not be said for you posts, there is no humor in them, but then again, there is no humor in the posts that the rest of us are posting on this thread, just your and your pals interpretation on HT.

Read on CW and enjoy and your pals as well. The rest of us will continue to work with and work for the continuation of women's rights and maintaining a woman's right to decide for herself what is and isn't done to her body.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

well littleone...if you will stroll back up to the top and reread.....
I didn't say the "subject" of this post gave me laughs.

This subject is "dead" serious.......literally..I repeat
literally.

I said this forum meaning the four posters who can always be counted
on to sing cum-ba-ya in hormony.
Once they get wound up its a comedy.

I have never said a woman should not have a choice.
We are free to make just about any choice in life we are
able to.

I think the choice is a freedom just like most of the
moral choices we make in life.

I guess the reason I am for a woman having the freedom to make that choice is because I don't have to answer or live with the decision since I'm against it.
We are free agents.
It is law now.
But it is man's law......not God's law.
I believe in God so I don't believe in abortion.
I don't think I could believe in abortion though if I didn't even know God.

I have never "tried" to take any woman's freedom of choice away.
I wouldn't try to take anyone's "rights" away.
So don't slam me because I don't walk your walk.
I don't slam you ...I just disagree with you.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

So when will you set your record straight on your Wikipedia deception?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

maddie..I don't have a clue what you are talkng about
but if its a deception....and you think you know the difference.....why do you care?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Your thread that you ran from is linked to in this thread.

'Thou shalt not lie' - that ring a bell?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

No, I have never run from a thread. I walk away from
ignorance but I don't run from anything.

I haven't seen a link in this thread that concerns me.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Spare us the pathetic games. There are 3 threads of yours linked to in this thread.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

citywoman2012 wrote,

I have never "tried" to take any woman's freedom of choice away.
I wouldn't try to take anyone's "rights" away.

Thank you for agreeing that freedom of choice is a right, and that you do not, and would not, oppose it. It is important to have conservatives voice their support for this right as you have done.

No, I have never run from a thread. I walk away from
ignorance but I don't run from anything.
I haven't seen a link in this thread that concerns me.

For your convenience, I'll supply it.

Here (click me!), you indicated that you got the definition you posted of a liberal from Wikipedia.

Your claim was false.

You really copied someone's opinion that they had posted as an answer to a question on Answers.com.

You have never acknowledged this falsehood.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

But...but...but...facto, how can citywoman acknowledge the falsehood when she's already made it very clear that she thinks opinion is fact? Of course, that's only if the opinion is something she agrees with. Since she agreed with that opinion, she doesn't understand what the problem is.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

maddie..facto and jill....thank you for the belly laughs
the second I logged on to this thread.

I can not believe you three are still at the same ole same ole.

I am not walking away from ignorance in this case. Just not acknowledging silliness.
I don't go back to previous anythings.
If I quoted or copied something and posted it on the forum
I am taking it in good faith that it came from where
I say it did.
Anything in print is someones opinion. 99% of everything
that is said in this forum is opinion.
Every comment that I have read (and only from posters I
don't sob) are just opinions.

Some say....fact or opinion. I want facts.
Get real. This forum is for the opinionated.

Facto....don't hold your breath.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

We keep giving CW what she craves you, you know. I believe she thinks of herself as having a sort of celebrity status in H.T. forum and loves the attention. Her fellow conservatives bolster her up, which I believe is a true unkindness to CW.

She is just bright enough to know that how she thinks is so ugly and objectionable to liberals here that it will get the reaction she craves.....as long as conservatives here are either silent or actually supportive.

She isn't quite smart enough to feel horribly embarrassed when old threads she participated in are brought back up for the world to see
I believe she basks in the attention.

It is her type of speaking that the nation listened to and that drove enough formerly GOP voters into voting for Obama yet again.....she's all yours, conservatives! Keep ignoring her and her ilk and you will do democrats a favor. Again.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Anything in print is someones opinion.

Oh, another keeper!

It is her type of speaking that the nation listened to and that drove enough formerly GOP voters into voting for Obama yet again

I agree, mylab. Remember that video someone posted of Republicans at some rally and the interviewer was asking them questions...the one where one person said Obama was a Christian Muslim Atheist. Sometimes I wonder if that was CW!

Anyway, thanks for helping Obama get relected, citywoman! It's really appreciated.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Mylab...is this just your opinion or is this fact?
If this is just your opinion say so and if its fact please
get a written diagnosis from a qualified source in the medical field.

This is a pattern against conservatives.
Mrsk....Nik....etc.
When you liberals are badmouthing me, you are giving them a break.
Being a conservatives...for me ...is a badge of honor.
I won't be converting to liberalism .


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

I remember that, Jill, and laughed when we thought it could have been CW. She comes on here stating her opinions as facts and when challenged , laughs it off and calls us humorous and good for a laugh. (" Bless your little hearts") .I wonder who the notorious liberal four who sing Kumbaya are? I'd be honored to be included. I know Maddie and jill are there and I would like to join them .The conservatives here always flock to her defense, and I thank them. People like these are what got Obama reelected so please keep it up.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

jill, I don't know how else to word it.
Facts evidently are hard to prove.....so most times .....
what you have is just an opinion.

Look how long it has taken the most qualified people , with the most top of the line equipment and brains to get
the "facts" of Benghazi straight.....and they still
can't get the "facts".....The FBI for goodness sake!

And then liberals on an opinion forum DEMAND the Conservatives come forth with facts only.

I'm still laughing.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Bigotry at its finest. Now what part of their Christian mindset says it's ok to lie?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

ROFLMBO....it wasn't Conservatives that put Obama in
the WH!!! LOL. cAnT'T StOP lAUGhing....
Don't lay THAT blame on us!! We are innocent.

See, thats how you liberals operate!!! Always blaming the Republicans for your mistakes.!!


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

CW, I can understand your confusion about wondering if what I said, I considered to be fact or opinion, since I only used the term "I believe" once.

It is my opinion, opinion that I suspect is fact. Especially with the opinions contained in the second and third paragraphs.

The fact is that the majority did not vote for the R&R team and instead voted for Obama.
Some real consideration about some of the hateful and ugly stuff you have printed in here could have been a factor in the loss.
But I don't care if you don't care, it actually works out better for me if you don't!

Please, do carry on.


I know, Marshall.
Another ugly thread. I agree, especially regarding my contribution to it.
I will step out of it now.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Teehee, Lily. I think that already does include you!

I agree with you and Mylab and Jill. Keep them front and center and they will help you reclaim the House too.

Now, back to the subject--looks like the abortion debate is over. According to the latest Catholic statement, unborn babies are not people anymore and, thus have no legal rights.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Maddie, could you provide that link, very interesting. You can't possibly be telling us that the church no longer considers abortion a sin.

That would mean hell froze over after all and its time to go ice skating!

(For the record, if they and the congregation, and anybody else thinks its a sin/murder, that is fine by me - I used to think so also, so there is a small common thread- just don't legislate it so everyone is legally obligated to live by those beliefs or allow your state to make it so difficult as to make it unreasonable to obtain medical care. That is not patriotic or the American way. That is the sort of forceful behavior we fled.)


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

LOL

Hold the skaters, it's just their usual standard bigotry.

Turns out that this "personhood" stuff is going to cost them big bucks and guess what.

Here is a link that might be useful: You guessed it.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

It is a dilemma!

We want citywoman and her type (including the geniuses that uttered all that nonsense about "legitimate rape" during the election) to keep on talking because it does contribute to the death of the current GOP. And I am just fine with the death of the current GOP party.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be nice to live in a country where everyone cared about other's rights? The sad truth is it takes a certain minimum level of intelligence to understand that the thing they yell and scream about (small government, not in their business) is exactly the opposite of their position on this and other topics. And this is why I call them hypocrites.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

citywoman2012 wrote,

I am not walking away from ignorance in this case. Just not acknowledging silliness.
I don't go back to previous anythings.
If I quoted or copied something and posted it on the forum
I am taking it in good faith that it came from where
I say it did.

Thank you for explaining one of the core fatal faults at the heart of conservative behavior. You feel no obligation to correct falsehoods you have spread. This is important for Americans to know, so when they listen to conservatives they can take into account that not only might the information the conservatives are providing be false, there is no expectation that it will ever be corrected.

And as an example of a fact, as opposd to an opinion: The definition you pasted in of a liberal did not come from Wikipedia; it came from Answers.com. Another fact that follows is that you posted a false claim. That is not an opinion. Indeed, even you have not denied it.

This post was edited by Factotem on Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 15:57


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Jill, you will always have this demographic, in fact every country does. They are a global plague. However, since they are in the minority, the trick is to not let them have a say, much less put anyone at their mercy--that's like letting the bullies run the school.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Maddie, that is one disgusting article. Disgusting.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

WOW, Maddie. Thanks for this link. What a terrible story.

CW, we are waiting with bated breath to find out who's in the quartet of whom you speak . Don't keep us in suspense any longer.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

maddie_athome wrote,

Jill, you will always have this demographic, in fact every country does. They are a global plague. However, since they are in the minority, the trick is to not let them have a say, much less put anyone at their mercy--that's like letting the bullies run the school.

And importantly, the size of the group that is ignorant of the basics of formulating a position based on facts, rather than choosing a position due to biases or hidden agendas and then trying to find or fabricate facts to fit, can be kept small through education. Education seems to be considered quite dangerous by those who engage in these reality-denying behaviors; indeed, it was quite telling that one of the attempted insults hurled here repeatedly by citywoman2012 was to accuse me of being college-educated.


 o
RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

The saving grace is that all Conservatives are not all like the most extreme BatCrapCrazy we see on HT.

I have neighbors that identify as Conservatives and the things I have seen here would make them run and hide their head in shame. I have never heard the language they use on HT, the ideology is expressed different. I have never heard them refer to people that they see as not having personal responsibility as the reason they need help. It is really different.

Consider Christy, a politician that identify as Conservative. I do not like most of his policies but he is not BatCrapCrazy. Being a conservative is not BatCrapCrazy policy for all. The party have some moderate members. They let some crazy tparty loones in the back door. I think they realize they will have to open the trap door and put the trash out soon.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Reminds me of Santorum, and his smart people quote last year. "Smart people will never be on our side". Only true thing ever to come out of his mouth.


 o
RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

demifloyd wrote,

Warts don't have beating hearts.

So you support the right to an abortion prior to the development in a fetus of a beating heart? Looking for some common ground.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Marquest, I have repeatedly said the same thing about all of my conservative friends. I live in a blood red state, my friends are all conservatives, the food bank people I work with are all conservative and NONE of them speak the conservative language I hear repeatedly on this forum.

I don't get it.


 o
RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Marquest, I have repeatedly said the same thing about all of my conservative friends.

mylab, thank you. That makes me feel better I was starting to think maybe it was PA thing.


 o
RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

maddie - thanks for posting that article. As mylab said, disgusting.

It's not hard to see where some learn their hypocrisy, is it?


 o
RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Every which way it suits them. Bigotry and greed go hand in hand.

Beyond disgusting actually.

They didn't think this through though--think of the legal consequences should they win in court - I hope they don't, for the sake of that poor father and husband, but let's say they win...

In any case, here's hope that the next time any of them refuses to help a female, they will get slapped with this.

And importantly, the size of the group that is ignorant of the basics of formulating a position based on facts, rather than choosing a position due to biases or hidden agendas and then trying to find or fabricate facts to fit, can be kept small through education. Education seems to be considered quite dangerous by those who engage in these reality-denying behaviors; indeed, it was quite telling that one of the attempted insults hurled here repeatedly by citywoman2012 was to accuse me of being college-educated.

Yeah and that was meant to be an insult? Well, to borrow your line...fascinating.

Educated people are perceived as threat--as the Republican war on women continues, so does their war on education.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Ah, yes, the Republican war on education. Who was it, Romney or Santorum (they all blend together), that said Obama was an elitist for saying everyone should have the opportunity to go to college if they wanted to. How dare he try and promote education in this country! Why if that happens, people may develop critical thinking skills and we know the Republicans don't want that!

This post was edited by jillinnj on Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 12:38


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Posted by evlis: "No kidding. I've alluded to this before. That and the control thing. Lack of control leading to unwanted pregnancy followed by desire for control to fix their mistake, at another life's expense. It's all about me, me, me. Instant gratification: sex now, freedom from that pesky person-to-be NOW. Just kill it, whatever it is."

Very well stated fact and the consequences of it. That is what has been going on for the majority of unwanted pregnancies.

Posted by dublinbay: "You are entitled to your belief, but not to legally impose it on other women"

No it is not a belief. It is a fact. Hope other people are able to distinguish between fact and belief.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

bluebird wrote,

No it is not a belief. It is a fact. Hope other people are able to distinguish between fact and belief.

Whether abortion is legal is a matter of fact, and the fact is that abortion is legal. Are you claiming that abortion is illegal?

Whether the choice to have an abortion is a moral right is a matter of belief or opinion, not a matter of fact. Are you able to make that distinction?


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Lack of control leading to unwanted pregnancy followed by desire for control to fix their mistake, at another life's expense. It's all about me, me, me. Instant gratification: sex now, freedom from that pesky person-to-be NOW. Just kill it, whatever it is.

You can't call this a fact. It is speculation on the author's part about the behavior of others.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Who was it, Romey or Santorum (they all blend together), that said Obama was an elitist for saying everyone should have the opportunity to go to college if they wanted to. How dare he try and promote education in this country! Why if that happens, people may develop critical thinking skills and we know the Republicans don't want that!

That was Santorum Jill. He has several degrees but he does not want his supporters to have any education. If they are not educated it makes them easier to be pets. Education is the key.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

"Lack of control leading to unwanted pregnancy followed by desire for control to fix their mistake"

If that's what you think that you really have no idea about all the various reasons and circumstances that could lead a woman to make such a difficult choice...no idea whatsoever.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

From wiki source,

A 2004 study by the Guttmacher Institute reported that women listed the following amongst their reasons for choosing to have an abortion:[45]

74% Having a baby would dramatically change my life
73% Cannot afford a baby now
48% Do not want to be a single mother or having relationship problems
38% Have completed my childbearing
32% Not ready for a(nother) child
25% Do not want people to know I had sex or got pregnant
22% Do not feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child
14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
12% Concerns about my health
6% Parents want me to have an abortion
1% Was a victim of rape
less than 0.5% Became pregnant as a result of incest

It's sad to see people using excuses and turning blind eyes to such moral matter. Except for the reasons of incest, rapes, health of fetus/mother listed above, which comprise a very small percentage of many many abortions, would people not see for themselves what is going on? Personal responsibility down the black hole?

Here is a link that might be useful: wiki source


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

2004.....and the fact that those numbers total way more than 100%

But putting that aside, ten words answers can't capture the full story, assuming they told the truth in the first place.

However it matters not because the right to choose is a personal and private matter that no other person has the right to judge.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

What I see is continuing personal responsibility.

Besides, Roe v Wade did NOT rule that abortion is legal only for women who take personal responsibility, as defined by the conservatives/right-wingers.

A constitutional right to freedom of reproductive choice means I dont' need your approval, nor anybody else's, to make my own choices.

Kate


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

Why is it any of your business the reason a woman chooses to have an abortion?

Abortions are legal.

If you are morally opposed, feel free to not have one.

But do not try to impose your morals on others.


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RE: 40th Anniversary of Roe v Wade

14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
12% Concerns about my health

I'm not sure how personal responsibility is involved with the above. Medical complications from pregnancy aren't necessarily predictable, nor is a spouse insisting on terminating the pregnancy.

The reasons given are more nuanced and presented in the summary:

RESULTS: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.

CONCLUSIONS: The decision to have an abortion is typically motivated by multiple, diverse and interrelated reasons. The themes of responsibility to others and resource limitations, such as financial constraints and lack of partner support, recurred throughout the study.


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