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Update on gun control part 2

Posted by youngquinn VIC Aust (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 17:34

The last post on part one was addressed to me by BV. He directed to me watch an NRA propaganda piece on how bad things are in aUSTRALIA SINCE WE LOST "OUR FREEDOMS" (SOB SOB) this piece contains such gems as "Americans should join the NRA" and contains comments from "concerned gun owners."

it tells lies and contains comments which are ascribed to the Attorney general and which are false.
BV this report is for you and it tells the real story....and BTW the important "statistic" is the number of Australian school children killed by gun massacres in their classrooms.......THE ANSWER IS ZERO

Here is a link that might be useful: gun buyback reduces gun deaths


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 17:43

"I called it for the last four years, and I'm calling this now. I was right then, and I'm right now."

Bill ol' buddy, how were you right then? ;)


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

I said Obama was going to come for the guns as soon as he won the second election. I've said it for the last 4 years, and I don't buy that crap that it's as a result of Newtown. That just facilitated it, and he used that tragedy for political reasons.

YQ-- right. You don't believe it, so your link is right, and mine's wrong. It was NOT put together even by anyone in this country, much less the NRA. It was put together by YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN. I guess someone else must be moving their mouths.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

From one of Obama's best Chicago buddies--

Never let a good tragedy go to waste

Rahm Emmanuel


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You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.
Rahm Emanuel

Bill. You know I love you, but please...

Here is a link that might be useful: Crisis, not tragedy. And the full quote.


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How come no Democrats know anything about this Obama plan to attack gun rights during his second term?

Only NRA types know about it--hmmmmm. I wonder why? They are prescient? or paranoid and projecting their suspicions onto the President?

Kate


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 18:11

Hmmmm.............you're right, he kept it a secret from his supporters. And I even made a donation.

I'm really not happy about this. I think we should have known that he was going to come for all the guns, too. Talk about being blindsided.

Oh well.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

How come no Democrats know anything about this Obama plan to attack gun rights during his second term?

You don't ADMIT to knowing. I know you know because I brought it up last summer (and sourced it with a sound bite), atleast one time where he got caught by a mic that was left on telling someone that gun control was very much on his mind, but for the time being he had to "fly under the radar". Nice try, Kate. But I'm glad to hear you consider yourself to be an NRA type! :-)


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Anyone else notice how tiresome "gun crises III (or IV?)" has become? Time to practice my SOB!


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from my link

"The study shows that in the 18 years before the legislation was passed, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, in which 112 people died and 52 were wounded.

There have been no mass shootings since the law came into force.

The fall in the number of deaths associated with the use of firearms, including suicides, rapidly accelerated after the law took effect.

The decline was at least twice as high (6%) as it had been before the reforms were introduced.

In the 18 years prior to the legislation, on average, 491 people took their lives, using a firearm. After the legislation, this fell to an average of 246.

Similarly, the number of murders using guns fell from an annual average of 93 to just over 55.

There was no evidence that the use of other methods to commit suicide or homicide increased.

Before the introduction of the law, the overall number of homicides not related to guns had increased 1% a year. After the law took effect, this number fell by almost 2.5% a year.

And the total numbers of suicides fell by 4% after having risen annually by 2% before the introduction of the gun laws.

British Medical Journal
BMA House, Tavistock Sq
London WC1H 9JP
United Kingdom
http://www.bmj.com"

BV your link is peppered with OPINIONS from gun malcontents.
My link quotes from a 10 year STUDY of the facts.


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Just want to thank la Petomane (was it?), Alex Jones and Bill Vincent for providing the biggest laughs of this New Year!

Best wishes
Jon


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You don't ADMIT to knowing.

I suppose next you'll say that Obama arranged these shootings so he'd have a "reason" to pursue action against gun owners ....


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Perhaps an IQ test should be a pre requisite for gun ownership?


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And here I was thinking it was the NRA who makes out like a bandit every time there's a similar crisis.

Why, if you read their literature with even a modicum of skepticism, its pretty apparent that this is their business model -

1)create hysteria that the gvt will break down your door to confiscate all of 'em
2) profit

rinse, repeat. Hey, its worked well since the hard liners took over the organization in Cincinnati, moved away from gun safety and into ideology. Why stop now?


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

marshall, not sure what you're talking about.

yq-- your link is peppered with slanted stats, and I'll prove it. First, below is the link to the video, so everyone can see just how skewed your post and your info is. Next, lets list these "gun malcontents":

Bob Perry-- concerned gun owner
Raymond Carn- Collector (well dressed, obviously successful-- definite malcontent)
Gary Fleetwood-- Chief Inspector of Police yep-- this one can't be trusted.
Patrick Kitschke-- competitive shooter
Trevor Griffin-- ATTORNEY GENERAL Here's another real malfeasant.
Graham Gunn-- Member of Parliment How could ANYONE think of this man as a productive member of society?
Ivy Skowronski-- concerned citizen Better watch out for this one-- she might wack you.... WITH HER GERITOL BOTTLE!
Various home invasion victims
Andy Dunn-- South Austrailian Police Association Another one you just can't trust
Darrel Suter-- concerned gun owner

Keep your BS to yourself, yq. At this point, if ANYONE'S buying it, then it's only because they don't care about the facts, but rather just want whatever boosts their own agenda. The first video I posted last year, I couldn't prove sources. This one, you screwed up hard core.

Here is a link that might be useful: YQ, you're toast. I finally got you for the lair you are.


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I suppose next you'll say that Obama arranged these shootings so he'd have a "reason" to pursue action against gun owners ....

esh-- there are those who accuse him and Holder personally of exactly that. I'm not one of them. Much as I don't like either one, I don't think either one of them could stoop that low.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 19:04

Now we learn the truth, dems are part of the great Obama conspiracy :)

Tiresome Marshall ... nope entertaining. Make yourself some organic popcorn and enjoy the (sputtering) show.


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yep-- make sure you use plenty of BAAter.


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BV let me list another video of NRA propaganda for you.....this one is about gun control in the UK......IT MAY LOOK FAMILIAR AS THEY USE SOME OF THE SAME FOOTAGE AS THE AUSTRALIAN ONE!!!

hahahahah!!

all of those people you list are just speaking their own opinions and as far as your list. trevor Griffin is quoted as "Attorney general" by you. Correct?

Well he WAS the AG of one of our states 10 years ago....and as such , in this is once again only SPEAKING AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN !!

AND THE MAN WHO WAS WELL DRESSED? WELL , OF COURSE THAT MEANS HE MUST BE BELIEVED.

Gary Fleetwood appears in lots of NRA propaganda. You must have seen him before he aLSO appeared inthe british one.

and BTW I am sorry you consider me to be a "lair"

Here is a link that might be useful: OMG those poor brits...let hte NRA save them !


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No fun at all when BV accuses YQ of being a "lair" and slanting published facts to bit her POV. According the BV, Australia has become a hotbed of criminal activity now that guns are regulated. No facts needed; anecdotes trump facts every single time.


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the video you posted under "YQ you are toast" is the same one you posted earlier ...therefore you are just repeating yourself and I do not see your point .


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I have several guns. I completely support having to register them (yearly).I support having to fill out forms & show ID to buy ammo. I support being fully libel is your weapon is stolen (It should have been locked up, not left in your truck /in the night stand)
I think every gun should have a sample bullet shot & stored so the markings can be traced (stored at the owners cost,by a private facility).
Futhermore I support a limit to magazine size - 15 or 12 or less.

I'm still pro-gun, I believe we have a right to own one ( in our homes/property). I'm torn on the right to carry since so many of the people I know who carry aren't quite all there.

Does this seem reasonable to the pro or anti gun laws types?


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Facts are shown in video form in the video I posted. NO WAY to skew them.

yq-- if you noticed, every time they showed one of those same scenes, you see an Austrailian flag in the corner of the frame. Nice try, though. Let me show you ANOTHER one about Britain, though:

Here is a link that might be useful: Britain's crime rate one of the worst in Europe


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Does this seem reasonable to the pro or anti gun laws types?

Rouchseas-- do you also advocate a 200.00 a year PER FIREARM tax on all firearms registered under the NFA? How about not having the right to sell them?


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yq-- again, I can prove you a liar. linked below is the one I showed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Austrailian Gun Facts. Nice try, though.


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I support a registration fee, yearly.

I don't know what that fee would be.


Selling guns should be done the same way as buying them from a gun store, dont' you think?


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Those videos aren't anything but opining, Bill.
Please,something in written form, that can be checked?

other opinions on my post Bill?


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Roughseas--

I agree. It's one of the changes I advocate. Even for myself, any gun I've ever sold has been either to someone with a CCP, an FFL, or a badge. I wasn't going to be responsible for one of my guns being used to murder someone, and I certainly wanted to make sure I wasn't selling to a convicted felon. I have no problem with running all sales through a gunshop and the back ground check. That's not what the new legislation says, though. It says you CAN NOT SELL them. period. You can not give them away, not even to your heirs. If you get rid of them in any way-- it has to be through forfeiture to the ATF.


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Roughseas, I think what you say seems reasonable.

I am not pro-gun and I am not anti-gun. I am all for responsibility and reasonable use. I believe a person should be able to own a gun if they pass certain criteria. I like the controls you propose.

Having excess guns and having guns that can fire off rapid amounts of bullets doesn't seem like reasonable use.

I also think that the fear factor that has been circulated since Obama was elected in 2008 has been way overdone.


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Those videos aren't anything but opining, Bill.

That's like "opining" from Eric Holder, or Harry Reid. Two cops, including one who was a chief inspector, an attorney general, someone from the Austrailian Parliment-- that's not opining.


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I just LUV videos of LeggoPeople citing figure after number after data -- no need to confirm attributions. Bill, you just made my day!!! I need to figure out how to create a tiny font appropriate to highlight how lightly I take this contribution to this thread.


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I also think that the fear factor that has been circulated since Obama was elected in 2008 has been way overdone.

I agree, esh. people should stop this crap of trying to make people believe that black guns are bad and are all out to kill you, as are those who own them.


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marshall-- that's the one I posted last year. I just wanted to post it because yq was trying to accuse me of posting the same one now that I did then. I wasn't about to let that go.


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Dear Bill open your mouth and let the NRA spoon feed you some more rubbish ! hahahahahh that video was the funnyest thing I have seen in ages. a robot? are you kidding.

it cLearly states that it was made one year after the gun buy back THAt makes it 17 years old !!!!!

THE FACTS ARE SIMPLY WRONG.

LAUGHING OVER HERE


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You know I'm talking about the fear factor that Obama will take away your guns and the 2nd amendment ....


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Better than swallowing the garbage YOU'RE trying to feed us.

And yes, I know-- you were laughing last year, too..... when I originally posted THAT video-- NOT the one I posted this afternoon, as you lied about. one of TWO lies I've caught you in today.

This post was edited by bill_vincent on Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 19:50


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Esh-- yes, and you know I'm not.


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bill, it's opining..
we can get congress critters here to say a woman can not get pregnant during a rape.
a video of him saying it doesn't make it true.

I'm looking for common ground.
registration, required lessons or proficiency (i'm sure you've been to a range & seen people who need a lesson)


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esh, thank you.


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I'm looking for common ground.
registration, required lessons or proficiency

And on one of these threads, I agreed with you on this. Right now, it's only required for a concealed carry permit. It SHOULD be required of anyone prior to bbuying a firearm.


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what really amazes me is how little most people know about guns, even most gun owners. Also how they skip over anything they dont like or agree with.
Just a few: marking a bullet does little good. guns are routinely re barreled.
making guns which can only be fired by 1 person: many many guns are shot by several different people in the same day. When I go to the range I mmight take 5 .22s one day, the nest 3 in .308, or 5 in .223. I might shoot up to 10 different factory loads and tyhat many more hand loads.
a flash suppressor doesnt make a gun any more dangerous, nor does a pistol grip or the color or an adjustable stock.

Hardly any gun owner thinks any one is coming for their guns, sure, a few nuts may think it, so?
Obama has stated more than once he would ban guns and doesnt support gun ownership. \ 1st, it was ban Saturday night specials, then handguns(same thing actually) then 50 caliber, tghen guns with a certain physica;l appearance. There has also ben blah blah about banning all kinds of ammunition.
All of these things dont do 1 thing to lessen crime. They pick the guns they would like to ban from picture books. The anti gun people havent got a clue what thety are talking about, the just rant on and on.


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No facts needed; anecdotes trump facts every single time.

Which is why I generally avoid the gun threads. With the anti-control crowd, there's absolutely no reason to exclaim "There must be a pony!" Just the droppings and little else.

God help us -- because we seem incapable of helping ourselves.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Which is why I generally avoid the gun threads.

So why stop now?


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 13, 13 at 22:21

"Hardly any gun owner thinks any one is coming for their guns, sure, a few nuts may think it"

Thank you for that FF :)


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Why now?

To express solidarity with Marshall in fabulous zone 10.


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Here in gun crazy PA our Sunday paper's editorial page was filled with anti- gun letters to the editor, and no I didn't write one.


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BV at 19.16 sunday 13 jan I told you that you had repeated yourself by posting the same video twice. I was correct.
You posted a video on the last post of the first part of "update"
1) "Aust gun control aint working"17.05
and then
2) you posted the same video less than 2 hours later on this thread under the title "YQ you are toast" at 18.58 sunday jan13.

this is what I was referring to.....when you called me a liar(or a lair although what my clothes have to do with anything is a mystery to me)

I then advised you that your video pf Britain SHOWED THE SAME FOOTAGE AS THE AUSTRALIAN NRA video that you have twice posted.

therefore NRA is using the same footage and ascribing it to 2 different countries.

then you posted a video of a robot quoting from 17 years ago.....AND IT IS APPARENT THAT YOU THINK THE INFO IS CURRENT.

Can I suggest a good nights sleep perhaps??


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And perhaps a nightcap before retiring?


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well I have definitely earned one !!


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Then have more than one... lol!


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

youngquinn, I want you to know that there are people on this forum who think that calling someone a liar is a grave personal insult. Your patience is remarkable.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley will seek to institute some of the nation's strictest gun-licensing requirements, ban assault weapons and restrict visitor access to schools in one of the most expansive government responses sought to last month's school shooting in Newtown, Conn.

Perhaps most controversially, O'Malley (D) will ask the General Assembly to force prospective gun owners to provide fingerprints to state police, complete a hands-on weapon-familiarization and gun-safety course, and undergo a background check to be licensed.....

Marylanders strongly support gun control proposals, poll finds

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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w4e can only hope the criminals will obey these laws. Ya know, lots of people on the left arent interested in getting anything done about the problem, just more knee jerk liberalism.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 14, 13 at 10:42

The criminals have already been fingerprinted. It useful to have fingerprints, so they can identify your cold dead body, when you get shot with one of your own guns.


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You can get my latent fingerprints when you pry my stolen gun from some crooks' cold dead hands. Or maybe if he drops it in a dumpster like they do on tv.

/or something like that


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Ya know, lots of people on the left arent interested in getting anything done about the problem, just more knee jerk liberalism.

Oh, there are never any knee jerk responses from the other side, I guess ....


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"SAN DIEGO-Following the events of last week, in which a crazed western lowland gorilla ruthlessly murdered 21 people in a local shopping plaza after escaping from the San Diego Zoo, sources across the country confirmed Thursday that national gorilla sales have since skyrocketed.

"After seeing yet another deranged gorilla just burst into a public place and start killing people, I decided I need to make sure something like that never happens to me," said 34-year-old Atlanta resident Nick Keller, shortly after purchasing a 350-pound mountain gorilla from his local gorilla store. "It just gives me peace of mind knowing that if I'm ever in that situation, I won't have to just watch helplessly as my torso is ripped in half and my face is chewed off. I'll be able to use my gorilla to defend myself.""

Here is a link that might be useful: Gorilla Sales Skyrocket After Latest Gorilla Attack


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Don, that is BEST comment I've heard yet. Thanks for putting this mess in perspective.


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The only way to stop a bad guy with a gorilla is a good guy with a gorilla.

And if we had gorillas everywhere - in schools, theaters, malls, churches, etc, - there would be much less gorilla violence.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 14, 13 at 13:41

Not till you pry this gorilla from my cold dead hand!

Once the government bans spider monkeys it's a slippery slope that'll send swat teams into your home to take away your gorillas!

Gorillas don't kill people, gorilla owners kill people!

(this is what happens when you open that door)


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Thank you, don, david and vgkg, for that much needed chuckle on these ever increasingly depressing gun threads.


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I get a kick out of how many come here, read all the way don, then comment on how they hate thses topics!!


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Actually, I was commenting on the giggles I got from david, don and vgkg. Try working on your reading comprehension. Also, a little work on spelling wouldn't hurt, while you're at it.


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Oh, so you're back! But just to make a dig on my typing abilities, cool.
So, ya knew these comments were at the very end even before ya had to read all the way thru 5o some posts?
But thanks fer the tip.


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This will turn into a state-by-state battle with the gun nuts. You can't reason with these people because there is no reasonableness. They fight EVERYTHING tooth-and-nail.

Here's part of an interesting article by a writer at lifescience.com:

In the 1980s and 1990s, research on gun violence in the United States was going strong. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC) funded studies on gun violence, and research was bearing fruit, said Fred Rivara, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington and Seattle Children's Hospital. In particular, Rivara said, agency-funded research had revealed that residents of homes with guns had a higher likelihood of violent death in the home. [The History of Human Aggression]

However, once those findings came to the attention of the National Rifle Association (NRA), a political firestorm ensued. Congress members who supported the NRA first attempted to remove all funding from the NCIPC. That failed, but Congress did manage to remove $2.6 million from the CDC's overall budget, the exact amount spent on firearm injury research in the past year, Rivara wrote Dec. 21 in a commentary in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

More chillingly, Congress added language to the budget appropriations bill forbidding any CDC funding that might "advocate or promote gun control."

"The net effect is that we don't have any research going on in the public health sector about ways to prevent gun violence," Rivara told LiveScience.

In 2011, the wording on budget appropriations was expanded to include funding from all Department of Health and Human Services agencies, including the National Institutes of Health. In other words, Congress let it be known that attempts to get at the root of the more than 31,000 U.S. deaths from firearms each year would be punished, Rivara said.

Similar efforts to hamper gun safety and education abound. In Florida, the Privacy of Firearm Owners bill would make it a crime for a health-care professional to ask a patient if they kept a gun in the home � although a study in the journal Pediatrics in 2008 found that counseling by a family doctor increased the rate at which families with guns either removed the guns from the home or stored them safely out of the reach of children.

-Ron-


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Oh, so you're back! But just to make a dig on my typing abilities, cool.
So, ya knew these comments were at the very end even before ya had to read all the way thru 5o some posts?
But thanks fer the tip.

Huh? Right, I couldn't possibly have been reading the post all along. Must have read it all at once. Only explanation you could come up with, huh? Not surprised. As usual your post makes no sense.


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From Ron's article:

Congress let it be known that attempts to get at the root of the more than 31,000 U.S. deaths from firearms each year would be punished

How dare anyone try and figure out how to prevent those deaths!

Just goes to show you what the NRA (and its followers) cares about. It's certainly not the value of a human life.


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In Florida, the Privacy of Firearm Owners bill would make it a crime for a health-care professional to ask a patient if they kept a gun in the home - although a study in the journal Pediatrics in 2008 found that counseling by a family doctor increased the rate at which families with guns either removed the guns from the home or stored them safely out of the reach of children.

Wow, a crime to ask? Really?


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Free speech?
not if republicans have their way.


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Free speech?
not if republicans have their way

Hahaha...."good point." -sarcasm-

Did you have lunch with Dianne Frankenstien yesterday?


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So, in the last few decades, Congress has gone out of its way to make sure we find out nothing accurate about gun violence--and, by suppressing such information, to make sure we have to rely on the biased and deceptive claims of the NRA which is trying to promote a gun in every home, in every hand!

In condensed form, here is what Ron's article pinpointed (all heavily influenced by the NRA):

1. A couple decades ago, Congress tried to remove all funding for research on gun violence. That failed, but Congress did manage to remove the previous year's amount of research monies: $2.6 million.

2. Congress added language forbidding any CDC funding that might "advocate or promote gun control."

3. Congress declared that research into the causes of firearms deaths would be punished in all govt agencies.

4. A recent Florida bill made it a crime for a health-care professional to ask a patient if they kept a gun in the home.

I was not aware Congress and legislatures were actually passing such bills. Now that I know and the NRA's fingerprints are all over those bills, I'm starting to get even angrier than I was before.

My mind is still boggling over the idea that we have a law saying it is illegal to promote gun control but it is not illegal to advocate for pro-gun policies. That is outrageous!

Kate


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

A recent Florida bill made it a crime for a health-care professional to ask a patient if they kept a gun in the home.

They also shouldn't ask about keeping poisons under the sink, un-guarded swimming pools, what they feed the baby, or anything else that might effect children's health.


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Who cares if they ask? One doesnt have to answer.


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Who cares if they ask? One doesnt have to answer.

Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable, responsible response.

-Ron-


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Who cares if they ask? One doesnt have to answer.

The NRA, apparently.


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Of course the NRA. If we allow health professionals to inquire about health safety items around the house in order to protect their patients, that could be a sneaky way for the goverment to create a master list of every gunowner in America--so when "they" come to get our guns, "they" will know exactly where they are. Makes is easier to pick up all guns in America, ya know. You don't think the NRA is going to let such a sneaky maneuver (health professional, my eye!) get by without putting a stop to such an invasion of a gun-owners 2nd Amendment right to privacy, do you?

Kate


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jan 15, 13 at 17:54

Well now I know it has been literally "decades" since I had a young child, but not one single health care professional ever asked me if I had a gun in the house ... or any other health safety items lying around.

They really ask these questions?

1/2 penny


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I have a gun and I am not anti-gun. I agree with all Roughseas suggestions.

I do not see $200 per gun a high price to pay. Care insurance is more than that and in the wrong hands it is a deadly weapon too. You have to pay for your toys.


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RE: Guns don't kill people, gun culture does

"Mexico provides a case study of what happens when more guns meet weak institutions. In the four years following the lapse of America�s assault weapons ban in 2004, 60,000 illegal firearms seized in Mexico were traced back to the U.S. Luke Chicoine, an economist at the University of Notre Dame, estimates that the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban led to at least 2,684 additional homicides in Mexico. Similarly, a study from New York University researchers found that homicides spiked in Mexican border towns after 2004, particularly those most involved in narcotics trafficking. The spike was far less dramatic in towns that bordered California, which had a state-level assault weapon ban that remained in place after the U.S. ban lapsed. A survey of court cases reported in their paper found that 3 percent of trafficked guns came from California, vs. 29 percent from Arizona and 50 percent from Texas."

Here is a link that might be useful: Guns don't kill people, gun culture does


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how many was it that Holder, azeros AG, sent down there, I forget. And of course, there is much more to this story.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Thank you, Marshall, for the link to the Business Week article. Besides your excellent excerpt, there's also this to consider:

A survey of academic studies by Harvard University's Lisa Hepburn and David Hemenway concluded that high-income countries with more firearms have more homicides. Americans have the highest gun ownership in the world, with nine guns for every 10 people. The U.S. also has by far the highest level of gun violence among rich countries. In another study looking at 23 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, Hemenway and a colleague find that U.S. homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, driven by firearm homicide rates that were 19.5 times higher.

In addition, unintentional firearm deaths in the U.S. were more than five times higher than in the other countries. Among these 23 countries, the U.S. accounted for 80 percent of all firearm deaths; 87 percent of all children under 15 killed by firearms were American children. In 2005, 5,285 U.S. children were killed by gunshot compared with 57 in Germany and none in Japan -- a country with some of the toughest gun controls in the world. In America, people who live in houses with guns are more likely to be killed. Homes with guns are 12 times more likely to have household members or guests killed or injured by the weapon than by an intruder. And while the guns-violence relationship is not perfect across or within rich countries, the counter-examples have implications that gun-rights advocates might not like. Consider Switzerland, which has the second-highest gun ownership rate amongst OECD countries, yet a very low overall homicide rate -- one-third the OECD average. While Swiss gun-related homicides are more common than elsewhere in the OECD, that still suggests that the mere availability of guns doesn't necessitate a lot of violent crime.

Yet if any country understood the "well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" part of the U.S.'s Second Amendment, it would be Switzerland. Gun possession is required as part of compulsory military service. Increasingly, those guns are being kept in depots, so they're not immediately available. Military service requires soldier-citizens to attend repeated, extensive training sessions from age 20 to 50. Switzerland is a prime example of why culture and institutions matter to the relationship between guns and violence.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

"in 2005 5285 U S children were killed by gunshot"

Read it and weep. That is a shocking statistic.


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RE: Update on gun control part 2

Nancy, yes, your quoted section is so germane to a truth exposed in my other contribution to the other gun thread, that being "guns don't kill people, gun culture does."


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