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| I don't know why you keep repeating that guns are illegal in Chicago. You are wrong - they are legal and have been for a few years. I also don't know why you keep repeating that there is no press devoted to this. Again, You are wrong. If you familiarize yourselves with chicagotribune.com or suntimes.com, you can read about this every day of the week. But to really have a chance at starting to talk some truth, why not learn about the results of the Chicago Police succesfully catching and jailing the prior leaders of the Vice Lords and Latin Kings, to name 2. There's tons written on the subject of splinter gangs. With internet connections, you shouldn't have problems getting up to speed. Brushworks, Hope you don't run into any flash gans if you are near Michigan Ave. Maybe the cold weather will work in your favor. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| A lot of guns ARE banned in Chicago, though not ALL. Of course some gun control is necessary, as I'm sure you all agree, but... Chicago Shootings Spike 49% In November Despite Strict Gun Laws |
Here is a link that might be useful: CNS Article December 2012
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- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 21:28
| They're legal if and ONLY if you're the police chief's brother, AND you work for the mayor. (an obvious exaggeration for effect) It is NEXT to impossible to OWN a gun, and until the SCOTUS case a year ago, it WAS impossible to carry one legally. From what I get from the article I posted, it still is pretty much illegal, and once it IS legal, the police chief is calling open season on anyone carrying a gun, legally or not. |
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| jmc: "I don't know why you keep repeating that guns are illegal in Chicago. You are wrong - they are legal and have been for a few years." Bill: "They're legal if and ONLY if you're the police chief's brother, AND you work for the mayor. (an obvious exaggeration for effect) It is NEXT to impossible to OWN a gun, and until the SCOTUS case a year ago, it WAS impossible to carry one legally. From what I get from the article I posted, it still is pretty much illegal, and once it IS legal, the police chief is calling open season on anyone carrying a gun, legally or not." Which is accurate? |
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- Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 23:59
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| The problem is that some people don't know WTH they are talking about when it come the relationship between the Chicago gun ordinances and actual gun purchases, gun ownership, and gun violence in Chicago. Same goes for the often repeated Right Wing talking point about "Chicago-style politics." |
Here is a link that might be useful: Chuck's gun shop
This post was edited by heri_cles on Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 0:44
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| Thank you, Nancy. Your off the cuff mention, bill, of the SCOTUS case refers to a case that was decided in 2010... not "a year ago". And 2010 coincidentally matches the date of the ordinance Nancy posted.
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- Posted by brushworks Zone5-Ohio (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 6:10
| Let's debate gun control. It's much easier than attending the weekly funerals in Chicago. And I don't really care about gun laws in Chicago. What bothers me most is that those dead kids and teens don't seem to outrage the folks at HT, today or yesterday. Heri.....meds, my man..meds..stick to a schedule. |
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| Brushworks, exactly why should a bunch of faceless HT people care about gang shootings in Chicago? Why exactly do you care? |
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| I can tell you, my military (Air Force) sharp shooter (awarded, not just because he's military a ribbon), knows and teaches gun safety to everyone, got stopped and charged for his weapon even though he had the correct permit, in chicago and the judge threw out the case against him. So not even the cops know the ordinances. |
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| What bothers me most is that those dead kids and teens don't seem to outrage the folks at HT, today or yesterday. Why are dead kids in Chicago more worthy of mention then dead kids in any other city? Can we possibly mention them all? Gun deaths are so numerous these days, it seems hard to keep up with them. Should we restrict our mention to the US deaths or mention child deaths worldwide? And yet: And I don't really care about gun laws in Chicago. Why would you not care about something that could influence those deaths? I just don't get why you are suddenly all consumed by this particular topic (kid deaths in Chicago). |
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- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 8:40
| That's not very pleasant. What are the Chicago cops going to do? Shoot first and check papers later if the person of interest looks or acts wrong? |
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| The hand guns they get are stolen or come through straw purchases. But nobody is willing to talk about restricting these two sources of weapons. No penalties for keeping your gun in some place where its easily stolen. And prosecuting someone for straw purchases, or the store that allows straw purchases, is almost impossible. begin quote: "Chicago Tribune - 'Straw' buyers enlisted to dodge the Brady Act, authorities say By Mike Dorning, Washington Bureau. Tribune staff reporter Eric Ferkenhoff contributed to this report The man who is accused of shooting Chicago police detective Joseph M. Airhart Jr. capitalized on a simple but increasingly common way to evade gun control laws: He had someone else buy the guns for him. The quick path that two powerful handguns allegedly made from the counter of a pawn shop in Benton Harbor, Mich., to the hands of Daniel Salley illustrates a critical gap in the nation's approach to controlling guns. Although Salley was barred from buying a gun because of a domestic violence conviction, he went twice to the same pawn shop to pick out a gun that a female companion then purchased for him, according to a statement the woman gave authorities. A least once, Salley had holstered the gun even before the couple reached their car, according to police. And so, on Aug. 28, Salley stood in a Chicago Loop apartment with the same two guns, one in each hand, blasting away at a team of Chicago police and FBI agents who had come to arrest him on an armed robbery charge, police say. Airhart, who was shot in the head, still was struggling for his life Saturday in a hospital. The woman who bought the guns for Salley has not been charged, authorities said. The so-called straw purchase of guns is "the most significant factor in gun trafficking, without any question," said Jack Killorin, director of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' Atlanta field division. -snip- -snip- Although the maximum federal penalty for participating in a straw purchase is a 10-year prison term, in practice sentencing guidelines call for only 2 to 2 1/2 years' imprisonment for someone caught providing as many as a dozen guns to a convicted felon. That's half the mandatory (5-year) minimum for possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine. -snip- -snip- A `tough law to charge' "It's a really tough law to charge," said one veteran ATF agent and field supervisor, who asked not to be identified. "Basically, you have to catch somebody in the act. You see them in the gun store, see them buy the gun and then go out to the car and give it to someone else." "Basically, short of a confession, you won't be able to prove that case," said Mike Smith, supervisor of the gang prosecution unit in the Cook County state's attorney's office. -snip- Still, more often than not, Chicago police cannot make a charge of straw purchasing stick, under either federal law or a similar state law. One officer closely involved in gun cases estimated that such a charge is filed in only about one-tenth of suspected cases. Mostly, offenders are prosecuted on misdemeanor charges of violating the record-keeping statute, officers and prosecutors said. Curtailing straw purchases But the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups oppose the step as an inconvenience to legitimate firearms purchasers and a restriction of their rights. Some others suggest tougher penalties. "This is going to be a crime that, for a certain number of people, deterrence will work. But the kind of sentences you get for a classic straw purchase don't have that big an effect," said Hoffman, the federal prosecutor. Hoffman said the relatively small sentences also influence federal agents' willingness to devote limited resources to pursue cases. In particular, he said, it may guide decisions when faced with making a choice on whether to use an informant to pursue gun investigations versus drug-dealing cases. "Sometimes, you'll hear it's not worth it. We can use an informant for a drug case, and the sentence will be several times higher," Hoffman " end quote Article is 11 years old, but still valid |
Here is a link that might be useful: link
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| 1.4 million guns, or an annual average of 232,400, were stolen during burglaries and other property crimes in the six-year period from 2005 through 2010 (U.S. Department of Justice) I am sure all of these stolen guns were owned by "responsible" gun owners. |
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| Those are the stolen guns that were reported. I know more than one person who have had unregistered guns stolen from their cars who didn't bother to report the theft to the police. Guns they were given, inherited, and so on, many never wrote down the serial numbers. |
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