Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Billv and brushworks

Posted by jmc01 (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 20:43

I don't know why you keep repeating that guns are illegal in Chicago. You are wrong - they are legal and have been for a few years.

I also don't know why you keep repeating that there is no press devoted to this. Again, You are wrong. If you familiarize yourselves with chicagotribune.com or suntimes.com, you can read about this every day of the week.

But to really have a chance at starting to talk some truth, why not learn about the results of the Chicago Police succesfully catching and jailing the prior leaders of the Vice Lords and Latin Kings, to name 2. There's tons written on the subject of splinter gangs. With internet connections, you shouldn't have problems getting up to speed.

Brushworks, Hope you don't run into any flash gans if you are near Michigan Ave. Maybe the cold weather will work in your favor.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

A lot of guns ARE banned in Chicago, though not ALL. Of course some gun control is necessary, as I'm sure you all agree, but...

Chicago Shootings Spike 49% In November Despite Strict Gun Laws

Here is a link that might be useful: CNS Article December 2012


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

They're legal if and ONLY if you're the police chief's brother, AND you work for the mayor. (an obvious exaggeration for effect) It is NEXT to impossible to OWN a gun, and until the SCOTUS case a year ago, it WAS impossible to carry one legally. From what I get from the article I posted, it still is pretty much illegal, and once it IS legal, the police chief is calling open season on anyone carrying a gun, legally or not.


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

jmc: "I don't know why you keep repeating that guns are illegal in Chicago. You are wrong - they are legal and have been for a few years."

Bill: "They're legal if and ONLY if you're the police chief's brother, AND you work for the mayor. (an obvious exaggeration for effect) It is NEXT to impossible to OWN a gun, and until the SCOTUS case a year ago, it WAS impossible to carry one legally. From what I get from the article I posted, it still is pretty much illegal, and once it IS legal, the police chief is calling open season on anyone carrying a gun, legally or not."

Which is accurate?


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

The problem is that some people don't know WTH they are talking about when it come the relationship between the Chicago gun ordinances and actual gun purchases, gun ownership, and gun violence in Chicago.

Same goes for the often repeated Right Wing talking point about "Chicago-style politics."
Political corruption and pay-to-play politics are neither regional nor are they the exclusive province of any particular political party. No need for me to cite examples from both political parties. You all know too many of them already.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chuck's gun shop

This post was edited by heri_cles on Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 0:44


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

Thank you, Nancy.

Your off the cuff mention, bill, of the SCOTUS case refers to a case that was decided in 2010... not "a year ago". And 2010 coincidentally matches the date of the ordinance Nancy posted.


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

Let's debate gun control. It's much easier than attending the weekly funerals in Chicago.

And I don't really care about gun laws in Chicago. What bothers me most is that those dead kids and teens don't seem to outrage the folks at HT, today or yesterday.

Heri.....meds, my man..meds..stick to a schedule.


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

Brushworks, exactly why should a bunch of faceless HT people care about gang shootings in Chicago? Why exactly do you care?


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

I can tell you, my military (Air Force) sharp shooter (awarded, not just because he's military a ribbon), knows and teaches gun safety to everyone, got stopped and charged for his weapon even though he had the correct permit, in chicago and the judge threw out the case against him. So not even the cops know the ordinances.


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

What bothers me most is that those dead kids and teens don't seem to outrage the folks at HT, today or yesterday.

Why are dead kids in Chicago more worthy of mention then dead kids in any other city? Can we possibly mention them all? Gun deaths are so numerous these days, it seems hard to keep up with them. Should we restrict our mention to the US deaths or mention child deaths worldwide?

And yet: And I don't really care about gun laws in Chicago.

Why would you not care about something that could influence those deaths? I just don't get why you are suddenly all consumed by this particular topic (kid deaths in Chicago).


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

That's not very pleasant. What are the Chicago cops going to do? Shoot first and check papers later if the person of interest looks or acts wrong?


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

The hand guns they get are stolen or come through straw purchases.

But nobody is willing to talk about restricting these two sources of weapons. No penalties for keeping your gun in some place where its easily stolen. And prosecuting someone for straw purchases, or the store that allows straw purchases, is almost impossible.

begin quote: "Chicago Tribune - 'Straw' buyers enlisted to dodge the Brady Act, authorities say By Mike Dorning, Washington Bureau. Tribune staff reporter Eric Ferkenhoff contributed to this report

The man who is accused of shooting Chicago police detective Joseph M. Airhart Jr. capitalized on a simple but increasingly common way to evade gun control laws: He had someone else buy the guns for him.

The quick path that two powerful handguns allegedly made from the counter of a pawn shop in Benton Harbor, Mich., to the hands of Daniel Salley illustrates a critical gap in the nation's approach to controlling guns.

Although Salley was barred from buying a gun because of a domestic violence conviction, he went twice to the same pawn shop to pick out a gun that a female companion then purchased for him, according to a statement the woman gave authorities. A least once, Salley had holstered the gun even before the couple reached their car, according to police.

And so, on Aug. 28, Salley stood in a Chicago Loop apartment with the same two guns, one in each hand, blasting away at a team of Chicago police and FBI agents who had come to arrest him on an armed robbery charge, police say. Airhart, who was shot in the head, still was struggling for his life Saturday in a hospital.

The woman who bought the guns for Salley has not been charged, authorities said.

The so-called straw purchase of guns is "the most significant factor in gun trafficking, without any question," said Jack Killorin, director of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' Atlanta field division.

-snip-
Guns obtained through such straw purchases account for nearly a third of the firearms involved in federal gun trafficking investigations, according to an ATF analysis covering cases handled from 1996 through 1998.

-snip-

Although the maximum federal penalty for participating in a straw purchase is a 10-year prison term, in practice sentencing guidelines call for only 2 to 2 1/2 years' imprisonment for someone caught providing as many as a dozen guns to a convicted felon. That's half the mandatory (5-year) minimum for possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine.

-snip-
Hard to convict `fronts'
Because of the nation's hodgepodge of state and federal gun laws, it's difficult to catch and convict people who act as fronts to buy weapons for felons. In essence, the authorities must prove the straw purchaser knew he or she was buying a gun for someone who couldn't pass the background check and deliberately flouted the laws.

-snip-

A `tough law to charge'
There is no federal law against buying a gun from a dealer one day and then selling it secondhand the next. It is only illegal when the nominal buyer never intends to own the gun and acts purely as a front. The federal form that gun purchasers must complete requires them to certify that they are the "actual buyer" of the weapon.

"It's a really tough law to charge," said one veteran ATF agent and field supervisor, who asked not to be identified. "Basically, you have to catch somebody in the act. You see them in the gun store, see them buy the gun and then go out to the car and give it to someone else."

"Basically, short of a confession, you won't be able to prove that case," said Mike Smith, supervisor of the gang prosecution unit in the Cook County state's attorney's office.

-snip-

Still, more often than not, Chicago police cannot make a charge of straw purchasing stick, under either federal law or a similar state law. One officer closely involved in gun cases estimated that such a charge is filed in only about one-tenth of suspected cases. Mostly, offenders are prosecuted on misdemeanor charges of violating the record-keeping statute, officers and prosecutors said.

Curtailing straw purchases
As a way of curtailing straw purchases, some gun-control advocates argue for a federal law that would limit firearm purchases to one handgun per month. Each buyer's ability to supply guns then would be reduced. After Virginia passed such a law in 1993, the number of crime guns traced back to sales originally made in the state dropped dramatically.

But the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups oppose the step as an inconvenience to legitimate firearms purchasers and a restriction of their rights.

Some others suggest tougher penalties.

"This is going to be a crime that, for a certain number of people, deterrence will work. But the kind of sentences you get for a classic straw purchase don't have that big an effect," said Hoffman, the federal prosecutor.

Hoffman said the relatively small sentences also influence federal agents' willingness to devote limited resources to pursue cases. In particular, he said, it may guide decisions when faced with making a choice on whether to use an informant to pursue gun investigations versus drug-dealing cases.

"Sometimes, you'll hear it's not worth it. We can use an informant for a drug case, and the sentence will be several times higher," Hoffman " end quote

Article is 11 years old, but still valid

Here is a link that might be useful: link


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 10:45

1.4 million guns, or an annual
average of 232,400, were stolen
during burglaries and other property
crimes in the six-year period from
2005 through 2010

(U.S. Department of Justice)

I am sure all of these stolen guns were owned by "responsible" gun owners.


 o
RE: Billv and brushworks

Those are the stolen guns that were reported.

I know more than one person who have had unregistered guns stolen from their cars who didn't bother to report the theft to the police. Guns they were given, inherited, and so on, many never wrote down the serial numbers.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here