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Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Posted by tobr24u z6 RI (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 25, 13 at 5:13

More people are finding love, happiness, and marriage via the Internet. Surely someone here has explored this option...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

well I will tell if you will , but you go first.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I have been signed up for some time but they can't find a suitable match...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I haven't, I would. My cousin met her husband and our 2 married neighbors met through eHarmony.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

yes , you would be a hard one to find a match for LOL!! ...and no, I have never used a dating service...as you know I have been married to the same man for more than 30 years now.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Wow! He must be a saint!


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I would use one if I were single.

If they can sift through and filter things down to a more suitable match first, that helps. Also, you could meet men and women that you normally would never have crossed paths with, widens your dating pool.

Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Am I witness to the birthing of another ugly thread?
;)

To the question, never. Cant understand the appeal, its a total mystery to me. I am aware that good relationships have started due to these online services but if we knew the amount of money wasted because the percentage of people who joined with nothing coming from it -or worse, the real horror stories that came after joining, these money makers would probably fold like a cheap suit.

I figure its very unlikely one will find their true love while sitting alone in rumpled pajamas, staring at a computer screen.

This reminds me of one of the funniest (and filthiest) scenes in the ( terrific) movie "Closer" staring Clive Owen, Natalie Portman, Jude Law -
A catfish scheme beginning online in a site where chat sex ( like phone sex only with a keyboard) goes on- the filthiest but most hilariously funny scene of that nature I've ever seen - and so revealing about how the male brain operates about that!

A great movie, just great. Julia Roberts is in it too, for once she doesn't play a silly woman or doing all of that forced, goofy laughing - its a grown up part and she plays it well.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

No, I have not and would not.

It works for some--my younger brother found his wonderful wife online. A good friend--also, a widow--went online after her 48 year old husband died and dated lots of guys--right now she's with a man she's been with for 6 years or so. I've met him twice and he's a great guy--he also lost his spouse to cancer. I also have a friend that is divorced after 30 years of marriage and she lives in a large city and dates regularly from these sites--but she doesn't want anything serious. Apparently a lot of people don't. That's okay, I guess it's good for whatever people are looking for.

I have seen some of the people on line because someone I know was a member and showed me what was "available" in this area. Very few could write a sentence with basic words spelled correctly. A male friend, a professional man, is also on a dating site, and he's nothing like the 62 year old men that list they want women "25-40" for "fun and intimacy" and say they've never been married. What astounds me as that there are people that are still married--they list their status as "separated."

Of course, I know it's no big deal to some but I would never date a man that was still legally married.

Many look like like crackheads or are dirty, haven't seen a barber or razor in decades.

Others are losers at marriage and life and the reasons are often obvious by what little they choose to post, or not post.

It's not for me. I've had the love of my life and still have it-- in my heart and in my memories. I am seeing someone that I went to school with--actually rode the school bus with--and so I know something about his family, his past, etc. so there's not a lot to hide from me. The dating services allow people to be anyone they "want" to be if you know nothing about them.

If I am supposed to be with someone else, it will happen and it will happen in the right time. So far God has not directed me to go to Match.com or cupid or other websites.

The last thing I need in my life is some nut.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

keep in mind.....


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

It would greatly depend on the service, but I might... if I weren't already happily married.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Nothing wrong with it. Since corporate life is so demanding, unless you are going to meet someone at your desk, it becomes tough to meet people. Eventually your social circle is done producing any "leads" and you can only join so many clubs/activities to meet someone. You will probably not meet someone in line at CVS that is just perfect for you.

It is just a way to widen your circle. Of course, anyone you plan to meet should take place in a public setting and not your home! Don't use a picture that is 10 years old either.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Thinking about it, the idea that you can cast your net wider while still filtering out the wrong "type" does have great advantages.

If your religion is important, you can filter it to only Catholic or Muslim or whatever. If someone of your own education level is important, you could choose university educated people. Or let's say political belief is important... no sense in getting out on that first date only to find out that you are on a date with Oil Robb.

That's the downside to having a friends fix you up with "this guy she knows" from the gym.

Yes, I have been there, many years ago. Some of my friends seem to think great hair and and a nice a** is more important to find out than their political beliefs. *sigh*

I can definitely see the advantages to having a matching service based on what you rate as important factors.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

So whats wrong with going into dark bars, getting really drunk, and grabbing the first one you can catch?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

No and No.

I've never had a problem attracting more than my fair share of attractive females in the non virtual world.

We know many females that use the online dating sites, however they use outdated, posed, cherry-picked or photoshopped pictures, plus they're nothing like their descriptions in real life.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

So whats wrong with going into dark bars, getting really drunk, and grabbing the first one you can catch?

It's a waste of time and money compared to the power of the internet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plenty Of Fish


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Now there's a 'dream boat' I'd love to have date my daughters......


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

First time I met my husband was at a large biker gathering... we were both getting tattoos...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

If I am ever single I will employ the help of Ricardo Montalban as Mr. Roarke and his side kick Hervé Villechaize as Tattoo at Fantasy Island or Gavin MacLeod as Captain stubin on the Love Boat.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

No, I haven't and I doubt I would (happily married so no need).

But, if I were ever in a position to consider it, this:

no sense in getting out on that first date only to find out that you are on a date with Oil Robb

would change my mind :-)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Some of the tall, fit and athletic females in our family have tried online dating since they have a hard time finding tall, fit and athletic guys, yet most of the males they met online lied about their height, body type and fitness level.

One of my sisters (a little over 6 feet tall) met 4 guys in a row that claimed they were at least 6 feet tall yet only one was even close and none were both fit and athletic. Two of the guys were really flabby, plus had major man boobs.

Our secretary met so many married men, men in relationships, men without jobs, men without cars and men with bad teeth, missing teeth and bad breath that she wrote something like - "must have a job, must own a car, must not be married or in a relationship, must have all, or most of your own teeth and brush/floss daily".


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Wait A Minute! You mean...this isn't one? Tch!

Seriously, no. You're asking someone who doesn't even BANK online -- and who has been married almost 50 years.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Our secretary met so many married men, men in relationships, men without jobs, men without cars and men with bad teeth, missing teeth and bad breath that she wrote something like

That is similar to something we heard from an admin assistant from hubby's work.

Must have a job, not married, not be on any psyche meds or disability.

Some people may view that as shallow, but she had met an awful lot of guys who were on or trying to get disability for psychological problems or physical ailments like chronic fatigue. She did not relish the idea of being someone's financial support system from day 1.

And she had already been through a relationship with a guy who was depressed and occasionally suicidal. She did not have the strength to get into another relationship like that.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

My criteria would be so high there are probably two guys online who would qualify if that. Since I met my husband was I was 17 and a junior in HS and he ,19, and a college freshman, I obviously never looked. But...he would have to have a great sense of humor, be liberal, love animals of all kinds, never have hunted or even have a gun, tall, thin and in great shape, non smoker, light drinker if at all, love movies ,theater , the arts, gardening, nature, be an environmentalist, not religious. See, no such person exists so...moot point.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

What I have seen is that there are considerably more desirable women than men.

There are twenty something and thirty something year old women that will date a sixty year old man if he will take them to dinner, pay their rent for a month, or buy than a breast implant job. Any man under the age of eighty that dates a woman over fifty-five does so because he wants to, not because that's all he has to choose from!~

I had no idea until I became single and heard these stories and I've seen some of it for myself.

I have a better understanding why some divorced and widowed women are reluctant to date and some don't want
to be married again. Some do, but aren't willing to chance going through the dregs to find someone worthy.

I don't know many women who want to be a nurse or a purse!


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

When you reach a certain age, there is WAAAAAAY too much baggage that I wouldn't want to deal with. On both sides.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

While I could never pimp myself out for material comfort or possessions, I'm quite certain that there's a caliber of woman out there who easily could. The same could be said for the male of the species, though. Our rather steady divorce rate is an indicator of many things.

It took me 35 years to find a man that I wanted to spend my life with... someone mature, devoted, honest, with a code of honor, who would treat me the way I deserve to be treated. I'm sure glad I'm not on the market looking for a companion now. I'd constantly measure everyone by my current husband, and I doubt many would measure up.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 25, 13 at 15:53

When you reach a certain age, there is WAAAAAAY too much baggage that I wouldn't want to deal with. On both sides.

*

With most people, this is true.

Divorces, grown children with probems, grandchildren, illness, people without savings, etc.

Of course, life is more interesting being open to new people and new experiences--you never know so these days "never say never" is uttered now and then.

I don't have any baggage (;)) except for being in love with someone that's not here.

That and not being under fifty years of age!

This post was edited by demifloyd on Mon, Feb 25, 13 at 15:59


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

What I have seen is that there are considerably more desirable women than men.

There are a lot less desirable males and females due to the substantial increase in overweight, obese and out of shape people.

This is a double negative for those seeking matches that are into numerous physical activities and sports.

They have specialty dating sites for Christians, Cheating Wives and Over 50s -- maybe they need one for physically fit people. Maybe they already do?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 25, 13 at 17:44

I met VgQn through a newspaper personal ad many many moons ago. Actually I answered another lady's ad but by the time she opened all the mail she had already made up with her old boy friend. After reading all of the responses she was evidently impressed with mine. She threw the others away and gave my reply to a girl friend of hers of whom I now affectionately refer too as VeggieQueen. Some twist of fate huh :o)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I wouldn't even think about it. Too much "catfishing" going on. Funny thing is I DID meet my wife on line, and at that time, I thought this was great-- getting to know the person without the trappings of physical attributes (or lack thereof) getting in the way. I never even thought about the whole idea of catfishing. Until I met a few of the people I "knew" on line while traveling around the country tiling malls, etc. As for my wife, I "knew" her for about 4 years on line and over the phone before we even met the first time, and we'd become close friends during that time. Don't know, given the way things are now, that I'd do it again, though. Too bad, too.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Gee, I forgot intelligence. That should've been near the top of the list.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Lol Chisue! No HT hook ups? Haha

I thought today you could have an entire relationship online only...twitter or Facebook bf or GF.

Seriously, meeting people online is no biggie nowadays and can be done smartly and safely.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Seriously, meeting people online is no biggie nowadays and can be done smartly and safely

I agree. I know quite a few people who have met their spouses online. They have met smart, successful, goodlooking, kind people.

It isn't much different than meeting people otherwise. There are jerks anywhere. Think of the number of people that get set up with idiots by family and friends.

Just do it smartly.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I like long walks on the beach if anybody is interested...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

do you turn back at the halfway point...or do you just keep getting further away?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Ladies really like it when I go barefoot...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Just saw something online that said:

"I avoid online dating sites because they match you up with people who share your interests. I don't want to go out with a weirdo!"

;-)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

good one, i concur!


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I wanted to, but my wife nixed the idea...

My little sister just married a man she met through eHarmony a couple years ago. Seems like a nice guy and she's happy.

But my buddy (a little older than me) always goes for the unattainables; those that are half his age and extremely attractive. Lately he's been getting all hot and bothered by Russian women online. I try to tell him that most likely he's actually conversing with some sweaty, hairy guy smoking cigars and drinking cheap vodka...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Sure I would use an online dating service, here's how my ad would go:

Middle-aged woman experiencing a mid-life crisis seeks a nice man who is hopefully single, or at least separated or in an open marriage. Look older than I am, but am only a few pounds overweight. Also look terrible in both jeans AND formal wear. Dislike traveling, dining, dancing, beaches, and the mountains, but I do like loafing on the couch and hogging the remote. It shouldn't bother you if I have to borrow your razor to shave my beard, which could be thicker than yours. My friends say I lack a sense of humor.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 18:28

No and no ....

But then I am not looking :)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Every body is looking mom! its what ya do after looking that counts!


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 19:54

I am sorry Fanci, but on this you are 100% wrong I am definitely not looking.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

well, good for you! I say you are a rarity! As cI said a few years ago, I would love to make your aquantance, maybe some day in that quaint Italian section over near Cleveland Clinic?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 20:18

"Little Italy" and yes it is near the Clinic, but closer to University Circle.

You may not be aware since you have been gone from HT, but I lost my DH not long ago and the last thing I am thinking about is a new relationship, although some people have told me to. It is not like getting a new car though ya know?

After close to 40 years with one person, I am content to spend the rest of my years alone except for the company of my children and friends.

:)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

You guys are funny!

I'm not on the market... I really don't know if I'd ever use an online service, though I have nothing against them. I wasn't looking when I found my first husband... or the second, to be honest.

While looks aren't THAT important, you still need to be somewhat attracted to the other person! And while I don't need, nor want, the Marlboro Man... I still want to be able to face him while interacting... after I get to know him and approve of his other many qualities! ;-)

Some of the services seem fairly straightforward... who's gonna pay decent money and then be dishonest? Doesn't make a whole lotta sense.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Oh, I am sorry to know of your loss! And I would be bringing my wife of 43 years, in case it would ever happen. She likes the chow at a little italian joint there, me too. You did tell me the name of it once but I forgwet now. family and good friends are really all one needs. Good thoughts to ya Mom.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I am a senior citizen and I have and still do online dating. I could also write a book.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Fran, thanks for posting.

I'd love to hear some stories--maybe you could start a thread!

Note, to Ohiomom Personally, sorry for the diversion:

______________________________________________

Ohiomom--I was like you, not only not looking but had a frown on my face when anyone mentioned dating, or getting remarried. I was offended and felt it a trivialization of my marriage and relationship with my love.

The man I have been officially dating (exclusively) for a year and a half, and that I met (after going to school with him but not really knowing him) him two and a half years ago asked me out as he was leaving my home after his men had finished a job for me and he came out to see if it met my expectations, and to pick up the check. We chatted about growing up in the same town, knowing the same people, and he mentioned his wife had recently left him after eighteen years of marriage. He said he didn't want to offend me but asked if I would consider going out to dinner with him once his separation was official, etc. I showed him my wedding ring and told him, "No way, you see these rings--they are staying on, I am always going to be married."

He said he understood, asked if I would go to lunch with a friend and said "no" and then he asked if he could just call and check on me every now and then.

I ignored phone calls for seven months--usually two a month or so, he would always leave a message. If you haven't already figured it out, I don't trust many people and I am very skeptical of their motives. I didn't trust his, although I did not know them. Men in their fifties and sixties can easily date a woman in their forties, so for someone to ask me out made me suspicious. One day he called from a phone that didn't show his ID, and I answered.

So we talked although I didn't want to, and by the end of the conversation I realized that I truly missed talking with a man, as much as I loved my girl "friends." After months of talking on the phone, I broke my foot and had to have the surgery, then fell on the crutches while trying to make myself something to eat and dislocated my right shoulder. I was kind of in a bind here by myself, he had been divorced several months by then, and he insisted on coming out and watering my antique roses and hauling the trash out to the road, and he brought me home cooked food. He came usually twice a week for the time I was in the cast and boot to water those roses. We talked about the women he dated, old times, God, beliefs, family, laughed, and became good friends. We would sit here and talk for hours and drink iced tea. He never once touched me or made any advances. It was purely a friendship.

After several months I was in town and he called and asked if I could meet him for an early dinner. I did, I was nervous, and he opened car door, etc. very polite. I cried all the way home in my stupid boot, thinking I had been unfaithful in some way just having dinner with a friend. It's funny how bound we are to those we love, even when they die.

My point of telling this, and the reason I am relating the details is, you never know what God (or our creator, our fate, our destiny) holds for us.

I truly believe that this man is a blessing sent to me at the right time to show me that my life was not over after having just turned 53. I truly felt it was.

This man is not the man my husband was by any means--no one I have ever met could hold a candle to him and there are scores of men and women that would say that, and have said that.

But he is a good man, with a good heart who embraces life and is fun and makes me feel alive again. I have met so many new wonderful friends through him, I'm learning to fish and go hunting and other things that I had planned on doing with my husband in retirement. We help each other. We care for one another.

Most young people tend to think that older couples are just "Early Bird Dinner Partners." Some are. I am too young and vibrant for that, and I believe that you are too.

I do not think I will ever get married again, and have no desire to. But being open to life can bring some happiness back into it--I cry and miss my husband as much as ever. His shampoo bottle is still in the shower, his trash is still in his office trash can, and his toothbrush and razors are still in the drawers.
His dirty clothes are still in the hamper because they smell like him and I haven't given anyway anything. I still go in the closet and smell his clothes and want more than anything to be with him.

Strangely, I have reconciled grieving with embracing life and instead of just living in darkness and sadness, I also live in light and joy. They can coexist and most people don't realize the darkness is still there. But the light gives us hope.

I don't know if you will ever date, you may not want to.

I know that if I were not seeing this man, I would probably date, but I still wouldn't go online. I wouldn't be out "looking" but I would open to seeing the right person--if nothing else, as a friend.

I think our husbands would want us to extract every bit of joy out of life that we could.

Unsolicited advice is worth less than nothing, and I'm cognizant of that, but I want you to know I do think of you and pray for you.

You have a lot to give--I hope you are open to all of God's blessings. I know for a while I was not. I am grateful that I did take a chance, no matter how it turns out. Sometimes we need a special hand to pull us out of that cave--there may be many reaching, but only one that we will grasp.


_________________________________

Okay, back to online dating.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Sat, Mar 2, 13 at 12:17


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 2, 13 at 11:12

Unsolicited advice is worth less than nothing, and I'm cognizant of that, but I want you to know I do think of you and pray for you.

I don't feel that way at all, and because you are in the same situation as me you do know how I feel. Not sure others do. For instance when himself died an old school friend said "I can't imagine how you feel". I told her don't imagine it, a year later she lost her husband.

I also understand not wanting to be "a purse and a nurse", now in my case he would be sadly disappointed as my purse is full of change LOL but I am a decade + ahead of you in years and although I would have gladly and lovingly taken care of himself till the day I die, I am not interested in taking care of a man. At my age I think (maybe wrongly) a man in my age bracket would be looking for a replacement for a deceased wife to take care of him. As I said I could be wrong, but as much as I miss him I have no intention of taking care of another man. Sigh ... you know what I mean?

I dont' know what God's plan is for me, but I am open to what is "behind the next door".

Thank you for your caring and prayers :)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Fran, I too would love to hear your stories! I dated for many years before finding my Husband and often said I would write a book of my escapades. My married friends really enjoyed my tales of woe.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Ohiomom, I hear you and understand.

It's strange so many women in our position do not want to be married again--there are so many women that benefited from the changes in the sixties, and we know we can be independent and now have options that other women did not have in past times.

Blessings to you.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Its not bad, online dating gives me access to different people, get to know them, make friends with them and most of all have a date and get to know them much better...

there are also tips on what to do and what not to do, so that would not end up as crap on a date.

www . startdatingtoday . org


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

My sympathies, if I haven't offered them previously...
Loss is something I don't want to imagine... as it will come soon enough. Time stands still for no one...

Actually, online dating would give a person a wider variety of people to meet... sometimes, our group of friends and acquaintances doesn't really contain anyone we'd consider to be "dating material".

I know that from local choices here, there's no one I'd care to spend an evening alone with... that is, if I were single.

So, in that respect, online dating would greatly widen the scope of choice.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

No. Too many creeps out there now.

A long time ago I put an ad in the newspaper. I received a manilla envelope full of written replies. I answered one. Dated him about four times. He was just soooooo painfully shy, we stopped dating. Really nice guy though. Cute too.

I remember saying I was looking for a "safe and curteous driver." LOL. Can't stand a speed-demon tailgator.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

October, I laughed out loud at your "curteous driver" requirement. Then realized that most people below the age of 50 wouldnt even consider "curteous" anything as an important top requirement.
Hot body though, might be #1 on many a list these days. Of *course* you have to be attracted to a person if a relationship is to develop but that can happen over time with merely a warm body but a wonderful soul.

I sincerely doubt that online dating could ever be my thing although one never knows what the future can bring.
I suspect I would feel more like OhioMom but would be ( hopefully) wonderfully surprised if Demi's experience happened to me.

I dont know if I would be smart enough to crack that door open, though.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I think it all depends on the individual, how much time it takes for certain wounds to heal, and what that individual wants out of life...

Some people don't like to be alone, and might need that companionship, or security. Others might prefer or enjoy being alone, solitude not a bad thing. And some people may just not want to begin again with someone else.

I think we can probably comment on what we think we'd do... but things might be different when we actually reach that point in time.

I don't think I'd want to date from online... but who knows? It's a bridge I don't really want to reach, but I'll cross it when I get there, I guess.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I hope you don't cross it, Jodik, at least not for a very very long time.

I wouldn't wish this grief on anyone, especially on someone who adores and admires their partner like you do and like I do.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I thought computer dating involved a lengthy questionnaire. You can weed out many baddies with one if you respond properly, eg only want those seeking marriage....that eliminates almost everyone.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I would think that the more involved a site and its questionnaire were, and if there were a membership fee to belong to such a site, these might help weed out any people who weren't serious about wanting to meet and date.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

There is an online service now for dog lovers!


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

There's one for christians, too, Tobr... there's a specific site for just about anything... haven't you been watching the commercials? ;-)


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

"I have been signed up for some time but they can't find a suitable match..."

Has anyone suggested it might have something to do with your manties....?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I kind of like a few of the women on this forum come to think of it.


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

I'm thinking of forming a manties forum. Any interest here?


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

no and no and NOWAYJOSE


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Seems like you need to loosen up a little and manties will let you do it...


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RE: Have you, would you, use an online dating service?

Tobr, only the men need be convinced... I can't speak for all women, but I already wear items I find comfortable and appealing. ;-)


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