It must be tough, at 85, to HAVE to be that busy. And if you are not well, it must be miserable.

I wish him the best

I'm glad he has though, wrong man for the job day one!

Benedict has been awful, he's been positively medieval in his dogmas, but he has been almost completely overt. He's an idealogue, and a corrupted one, but a bad politician who has not inspired affection in even his own people.

I think overt malignancy is always preferable to the discreet kind.

May God spare his soul and mine, but I have never yet had the courage to really look into what John Paul II's level of knowledge and involvement in the abuse scandals were, simply because he did make such a beloved Pope. My grandparents--Eastern European Catholics--adored him. I have not done so, because I do already know he wasn't innocent, and that is enough for me to condemn him without knowing further particulars. Mee-ma and Pa-pa would have been horrified, I am so glad they were passed away before it all broke.

And yet look at the image he had presented. A liberal (by Catholic standards) loving grandfather.

Plus, he stayed Pope a long time.

Yeah, I think they could do worse than Benedict.

Discussion on Morning Joe was pretty brief; some speculation this might be a last gasp to elect an Italian Pope before casting a wider, more inclusive net to the Philippines, Africa, perhaps even the US.

The Church as been suppressing the evils of pedophilia among the clergy long before I was an altar boy. The worst of the offenders seem to have been among the itinerant priest serving in place of ill or vacationing parish priest. Since Vatican II, fewer and fewer priests have been serving, meaning that more pedophiles had the opportunity for permanent placements, at least until the complaints of child abuse became too great.

Maybe the next one is just supposed to ensure there is no dust on the mantel as the house collapses around him.

Oops! Labrea and I cross-posted.

Much like Marshallz, I left behind the organization of religion... but I went one further and left behind the entire idea of religion, the Catholic Church and science proving to me that a god can't exist.

I couldn't guess what might be the future of such an organization... but they're certainly not making the idea of religion a palatable one.

I wonder this, on the very, very few areas where he is considered infallible, would this infallibility follow him into his retirement?

It will be extremely unlikely since they all have carefully been cut from the same cloth Ratzinger himself carefully wove, but I would think it would be for the continued good health of the church coffers were they to appoint a man who would try to advance the church into this century since they failed so miserably advancing into the last.

Adapt or be left behind.

This has not happened in 719 years. They have gone to the end of the earth to hide their young boy problems. Age would be the last thing I would think as a reason for the Pope to resign.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens i,e, who is next in line and any changes that the church may think needs to be put in place to move into this century.

Celestine V abdicated in 1294 - admitting his own incompetence - and returned to his solitary cave.

There will be something in common with Benedict XVI; Celestine was the first to see the conclave picking his own successor and Benedict will be the second to do so.

Benedict will have a mixed legacy. He promised reform, but that pretty much entailed nothing more than perhaps a new broom to sweep the abuses under the carpet.

Be interesting to see if a new Pope takes a different stance on the role of nuns. The "too much poverty and not enough sanctity" business drives me batty. Who better than those actually on the front lines to understand the true meaning of social and economic justice?

Good. We went back home for a catholic wedding last year. My wife and I were flabbergasted how this institution is kept afloat. About half the family back there clings to this outdated institution on Sunday, and for the rest of the week carries on in the 21st century.

Michael Corleone tried that years ago.

As of Monday, February 11, 2013, there are 211 Cardinals,
119 of whom are eligible to vote and 92 of whom are ineligible.

Interesting enough - the Cardinal Electors are the members of the College of Cardinals who have not reached their 80th. birthday. Over 80 and they can't vote, but they can be elected - probably spend the next few weeks arm twisting.

Read something about the bank shutting down credit card purchases. Unhappy folks/tourists on a cash and carry basis unless the ban has been recently lifted.

*ROTFL*

May I borrow that line when in my private conversations with friends, it's SO rich! :)

I promise I will give you credit.

Especially if 'someone' ends up being especially fundi Catholics and lodges an objection
* snork*
( Don't think I know any anymore, but.....ya never know!)

Love it!

VATICAN CITY - Citing his advancing age and deteriorating health, Pope Benedict XVI announced his resignation from the papacy Monday, saying he no longer possessed the strength and energy required to lead the Catholic Church backward.

This was a wrestling match. Liberal is the notion of what Ratzinger saw as moral relativism within the the Church's intellectual circles..

Papa Ratzinger also welcomed Anglican priests angered by the ordination of women and Gene Robinson, an openly gay bishop, and the blessing of same-sex unions.

Vatican reveals plan to welcome disaffected Anglicans

In a move with potentially sweeping implications for relations between the Catholic church and some 80 million Anglicans worldwide, the Vatican has announced the creation of new ecclesiastical structures to absorb disaffected Anglicans wishing to become Catholics. The structures will allow those Anglicans to hold onto their distinctive spiritual practices, including the ordination of married former Anglican clergy as Catholic priests.

To deny any excathedra position is to be willfully separate form the body of Christ as expressed through the Church.

Papa's personal opinion may be considered false on multiple subjects form the Superbowl to his wardrobe. Infallibility is very specific terms based on scripture, tradition on faith & morals.

Well, it won't be a tough act to follow, that's for sure. This is of course highly unusual, but IMO courageous of the pope because it IS so unusual.

Good for him;, he's messed up royally, from the pedophilia scandals to undoing well-deserved excommunications, he's not the man for the job and he apparently has figured that out.

I hope they select a good one and best of luck to him.

This is akin to to the press release when an executive retires to spend more time with his family. LOL

It sure follows quickly upon the heels of his butler's activities. The sexual scandals are just ongoing -- hardly news there.

IMO he was always interim, but I have no idea for whom he was the place holder. I'm not of this 'faith'; certainly not of this dogma.

We need a Shakespeare to whip this up into a play.

I assume that either others have consolidated their power and forced the resignation, or it's necessary damage control because "another shoe is about to drop" internally, externally or both.

It's also possible that he prefers his previous role which was quite powerful, but less visible and less subject to observation and criticism by the public.

A documentary?

" However, in today's world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, BOTH STRENGTH OF MIND and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. "

Edited to add the section of the statement that caught my attention.

Really?

I already sent in my resume... I was hoping this would be a smart career step.

Bummer.

With all due respect, I think this is a very ethnocentric viewpoint.

The RC church is pretty canny about these things. What they have left of a following in the US, they intend to use shamelessly as a bank, and absolutley nothing else. Nor do they intend to do much but throw those few faithful US American Catholics a bone now and then when it comes to church needs and such.

Ah but Africa, Asia, and South America still have so many populations who are delightfully undereducated and not nearly so modern or aware they might deserve more.

That's where the Catholic church is investing thier mission efforts now, and they are not doing too badly at it either. The handful of RCs left in the West are just funding.

Don't forget, of the 2.1 to 2.3 billions Christians in the world, just over half are still Roman Catholics. That just isn't the Western experience.

The Butler claimed he was trying to uncover the power struggles going on between te old guard & the new guard.

La Repubblica reported that no one knew that that Papa Ratzinger's announcement was coming except Sodano. Today they say that his brother Georg knew, and rumors have been circulating the Vatican for months, but always denied. Three months ago the Pope underwent routine battery change for his pace maker. (Sheesh, is there nothing unimportant that they won't reveal?)

The resignation managed to push news of the Italian elections down page for a day. Today a business leader is indicted for 'international corruption' and tied to a party in Berlusconi's previous coalition.

Puleese! Good excuse to bow out before decades of documents are combed over and any legal investigation explodes.

Women and ethics are not allowed within Vatican walls, Tobr. ;-)

Sr Enrica Rosanna, was made an undersecretary by the current Pope , he actually had spoken about appointing more women to Vatican positions..This also ruffled the feathers of the old guard

Pope Benedict IX, in 1045: At age 33 and about 10 years into his tumultuous term, the Rome-born pope resigned so that he could get married and to collect some cash from his godfather, also Roman, who paid Benedict IX to step down so that he might replace him, according to British historian Reginald L. Poole;s definitive and much-cited history of the 11th century.
Pope Gregory VI, in 1046: The same man who had bribed and replaced his godson ended up leaving the office himself only a year later, according to Poole's account. The trouble began when Benedict IX failed to secure the bride he'd resigned for, leading him to change his mind and return to the Vatican. Both popes remained in the city, both claiming to rule the Catholic church, for several months. That fall, the increasingly despondent clergy called on the German Emperor Henry III, of the Holy Roman Empire, to invade Rome and remove them both. When Henry III arrived, he treated Gregory VI as the rightful pope but urged him to stand before a council of fellow church leaders. The bishops urged Gregory VI to resign for bribing his way into office. Though the fresh new pope argued that he had done nothing wrong in buying the papacy, he stepped down anyway.
Pope Celestine V, in 1294: After only five months in office, the somber Sicilian pope formally decreed that popes now had the right to resign, which he immediately used. according to a report in the Guardian. He wrote, referring to himself in the third person, that he had resigned out of "the desire for humility, for a purer life, for a stainless conscience, the deficiencies of his own physical strength, his ignorance, the perverseness of the people, his longing for the tranquility of his former life." He became a hermit, but two years later was dragged out of solitude by his successor, who locked him up in an Italian castle. Celestine died 10 months later.
Pope Gregory XII, in 1415: The elderly Venetian had held the office for 10 years, but he was not the only pope. For decades, the Western Schism had left Europe with two popes, one in Rome and one in the French city of Avignon, according to Britannica. The schism's causes were political rather than theological: the pope had tremendous power over European politics, which had led its kings to become gradually more aggressive in manipulating the church's leaders. Gregory XII resigned so that a special council in Constance, which is today a German city, could excommunicate the Avignon-based pope and start fresh with a new, single leader of the Catholic church.

The Italian Press Photo of Lightning hitting St Peter'swill probably be used for ages by the religious yahoos in the country!

With the twin miracles of childbirth and clitoral orgasm - seldom experienced by Cardinals - they should be deified, not just kept to hand around the tea and sandwiches after the mumbo-jumbo.

Best wishes
Jon

Here ya go Jodi, this is a lengthy read, but it "might" be the smoking gun. Joe/Labrea might have already posted on this little group, but I confess to not being able to keep up with all the threads these days.

As an aside, that link also contains a funny link in which Fox News talks about how solar power won't work here in the US because we don't get enough sun... LMAO!

Anyway... it's an interesting time to be catholic, to say the least!

I suspect Vatican 2 was the last breath of fresh air to be found in Rome for a VERY long time. They are still trying to put that genie back into the bottle. I know two lovely now-Senior couples whose intelligent minds were freed from yokes put on them as children and teenagers.

Why was the King of Siam so right, saying, "You have to be carefully taught?" What's wrong with adults thinking for themselves?

It causes them to be able to see the corruption and evil going on around them... something the scammers, the evil, and the greedy in this world do not want to happen. Exposure is bad for business.

Panorama is owned by Mondadori which in turn is controlled by Fininvest, a financial holding company run by the Berlusconi family. In other words, perhaps more politics - national elections in a few weeks - than journalism.

Just a question - because I am completely in the dark about the ins and outs of Italian politics - but how would that affect the national elections... and which way would that kind of news swing it?

. Jose Barba, a retired college professor and former Legion seminarian who filed a 1998 canon law request in Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith tribunal, seeking Maciel's excommunication.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith which Ratzinger headed was formerly called the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition.. Yep that old Institution lived on.
Investigations into Maciel's behavior by the Vatican remain secret. He was never defrocked but retired to Florida!

Child sex abuse cover up alleged in Pope Benedict resignation

Pope 'obstructed' sex abuse inquiry

Pope Seeks Immunity Protection from Italian President

Pope Benedict to seek immunity and protection from Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on February 23

Depravity is good descriptive word, Joe.

Most countries that had diplomatic relations with the former Papal Kingdom maintained them The new unified Nation of Italy did not. Garibaldi referred to the pestilential institution which is called the Papacy. He advocated for an abolition of all ecclesiastical property!