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Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Posted by Lady_Brat none (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 9, 12 at 9:30

Talk about stupid and in this case it equals Kyle Dyer, the news anchor who was bit by Max, an Argentine Mastiff. Max had been rescued from a frozen lake the day before and was on the show with his owner to be reunited with the fireman who pulled him from the lake. Anyone who knows anything about dogs can tell you that you just don't get in the face of a strange dog. This idiot was just asking to be bit.

When I heard this on the news today they were talking about the surgery Dyer had undergone and from their description I thought the dog had practically torn the woman's face off. After viewing the video however, I saw that he got one bite in and as he was on leash and the owner was already holding him close he was able to instantly restrained him. The dog never appeared to want to attack; he just wanted to get this woman out of his face.

Robinson, Max's owner " has been charged with failing to have a dog on leash, allowing a dog to bite and failure to have a vaccinated dog" and thanks to Dyer's moronic actions Max is "quarantined until a judge can hold a hearing on the charges and rule on the dogs fate." Hopefully Max won't have to be euthanized due to Dyer's imbecilic conduct.

This link just gives a fuller story regarding Max's rescue:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/rescued-dog-bites-tv-anchor-during-broadcast-174851

The link below is a video of the bite happening.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anchor Woman Bitten


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Anyone who knows anything about dogs can tell you that you just don't get in the face of a strange dog. This idiot was just asking to be bit.

The simple truth is that lots and lots of people know nothing about dogs, nor is there any reason they should. Nor did my son who, as an eight year old, got bit in the same exact circumstances. He had never had a dog or known anyone who had a dog. How would you expect him to know? Especially since his Mom, who had had a dog pet when she was a child, also didn't know. Subject had never come up one way or another in all those years.

Needless to say, my son has never had a strong liking for dogs ever since that incident.

I hate to tell dog owners, but dogs do not take precedence over or have more rights than human beings do. My poor son felt so betrayed and hurt (emotionally) by the dog he was just trying to make friends with. I don't care how many beer cans you hurl at me (verbally or otherwise)--it's still true.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The dog rescue was playing out on all the TV channels at once, helicopters nearly colliding over the reservoir as some firemen risked their lives to save the animal. Donning an insulated wet suit and going through broken ice. This feel-good story bumped the coverage of the massacre in Syria off the news.

The lady who was bit also does the weekly TV 'adapt a rescue' animal segment where she points out how cuddly the abandoned animals are. For what its worth, she also just got over several years of 'invisalign' treatment. Oh well.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

If you look at the way she was petting him, it's no wonder that he bit her. At one point she has both hands surrounding his muzzle which is not a good idea because it's a challenge to the dog. She was exhibiting dominance over him and he didn't like it one bit. Not to mention the fact that the dog just had a traumatic experience.

Kate: I am not going to hurl any beer cans at you, but to me it sounds as you are more angry with yourself than with the dog. There is so much information out there on the proper way to handle dogs and I know you are a good researcher.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Well, what do you expect, david. Massacres (in Syria or elsewhere) feature no cuddly dogs, just dying human beings. What a downer.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

She tried to kiss the dog on the nose! You NEVER do that to a strange dog who doesn't know you. The dog may never even have been kissed affectionately that way and had no experience to draw from to understand the move by the anchor was not an attack. Dogs react out of fear NOT hate. The dog took the move as an act of aggression and reacted as animals will naturally do especially in a strange place (a studio) with bright lights and strangers. The anchor was totally at fault.

Kate, I'm sorry about your son's bad experience with dogs, but the responsibility to be safe around dogs is entirely the responsibility of the dog owner and the people who approach them not the dog. I don't let ANYONE just come up and put their hands on my dog until she has had a chance to sniff them and feel comfortable and even then I watch closely for any sign of discomfort by the dog. No one should EVER kiss a strange dog they don't know. That's just stupid.


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Dogs Have Rights Too

"The simple truth is that lots and lots of people know nothing about dogs, nor is there any reason they should. "


And your statement says it all. If you don't know anything about dogs and feel there is no reason you should learn why then would you let your son try to hug/kiss a strange dog, that not only weren't you aquainted with but were also, per your own admission,ignorant regarding the species itself? If I am not knowledgable about risks associated with something that is all the more reason I would'nt expose my child to it.

Kate also said "I hate to tell dog owners, but dogs do not take precedence over or have more rights than human beings do." Well I don't hate to tell you Kate that dogs do have the right to be protected from stupid or ignorant people. No stranger has a right to or to allow their child to get in my dogs face or even pet my dog without permission. Not only is it my dogs right to that protection but I am there to make sure that right is enforced.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

....Oh, its a Puppy!!!!!

And then reconstructive surgery.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I am going to agree with Jerzee on this... with so many pets around these days, and so many of them rescues or adoptees with unknown histories... that may or may not have been correctly or adequately evaluated before adoption, and many by questionable trainers or evaluators... mainly because regulations and laws are so lax or non-existent when it comes to the pet world...

Animals, even domesticated ones, can be unpredictable. We never know how another living thing will react or behave, regardless of how cute and cuddly it may appear... especially if we aren't already familiar to it.

And, as Jerzee points out, this animal had only recently gone through a very traumatic experience. It had no business being anywhere unfamiliar or threatening. That dog should have been at home, resting and recovering from the experience, and not in a brightly lit, busy, active studio filled with strangers.

If the anchorwoman had any brains, she would have asked to schedule the interview at a later date, and she also would have gotten a little advice about approaching strange dogs unknown to her. If the dog's owner had any brains, he wouldn't have been so eager for his 15 minutes of fame, and would have refused the studio interview until a later date.

Teaching children not to approach strange animals can be placed in the same list as teaching them about "stranger danger", and not just walking up to and speaking with people they don't know.

Since we can't predict a reaction from someone or something we are unknown to, it's always wise to be wary. Ask first if the dog is friendly, and whether or not a child can approach it and pet it or hug it.

This, in my opinion, can be blamed on both the owner, who should have refused the interview until a later date, and the anchorwoman, who obviously knows nothing about dogs.

And we wonder why we have such issues with pets in this country...

Would that same anchorwoman have run up to and hugged a lion? Would she have grabbed a bear by both sides of its muzzle? Would she have stuck her hand in a cage containing any animal she didn't know? Hopefully not. Somehow, I'm guessing the answer might be yes, more's the pity.

So now, this poor dog will pay dearly for the stupidity and lacking common sense of people.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I know nothing about this woman nor even the story, but I commend the fact she does do feel good animal stories. I love to see them, and they're a counter to all the meanness in the world. That said, she did everything wrong. I wouldn't get that close to a 3 pound chiwauwau. I don't blame the dog but blame all three humans . Rule number one. Never get in a dog's face, and especially don't grab him around his muzzle and try to kiss him. Common sense.

I always ask to pet, let the dog sniff my hand and then pet on the top of the head.I was never bitten , but I can see how your son was traumatized, Kate. I was traumatized as a child watching someone else get bitten by my scout leader's little Scottie.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I hate to tell dog owners, but dogs do not take precedence over or have more rights than human beings do.

First of all, this isn't about your son. This is about a dog who just the day before went through a traumatic experience. I'm surprised the owner allowed the animal to go thru this TV dog-and-idiot show. I saw the video too. She was constantly feeling its face and then she put her face up to the dogs. She's not a child, she should have known better. The dog nipped at her and got a piece of her lip.

If they do something bad to this dog, I will be outraged.

-Ron-


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 9, 12 at 12:22

My dog

My gun

My cigarettes

My company -- whatever they do, it's a failing on your part if you are bothered - or hurt - by it.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I agree with everything Lily said and do exactly the same with approachable looking dogs - ALWAYS ask the owner first, friendly appearances can be deceiving - and then only offer the hand. I then will pet the side of the dog's neck and only slowly and only if it seems agreeable to it. \

I was always really afraid of all dogs until after much begging and cajoling by both males in my home, we got our first jet black labrador as a fat, cuddly roly poly 8 week old pup that I could never have been afraid of and I fell head over heels in love - once in awhile an owner gets lucky and has that truly *exceptionally* bright, loyal, affectionate and an extraordinary bond with dog that stands a head above all the rest ever owned - and she was that dog for me. I adore all my others, but she was my first true love and that special "one". She taught me not to be afraid and to try to see the world from a very different and interesting perspective other than my own, was there when I needed her -

I have never put my face in any dog's face except for my own and only when they put their face in mine first. Well, not the shih tzu, I kiss her nose all the time while she tries and fails to french kiss me, but otherwise.......


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

This is unreal. My son, bitten at 8 years old, is 40 years old now. You scold me for not researching NOW about how he should have treated the dog 40 years ago? I NOW know these things about dogs--because you people told me so Last Year. Before that, not once in my son's 40 years, nor once in my nearly 70 years, had the subject ever come up in any way, shape, or form--but me and my son were supposed to know what not to do anyway. You people are making no sense. How did you expect people who never heard anything about the subject before to know that they should be researching the subject? One has to know there is a need to research something first. Besides, my son and I thought he was being very friendly and caring towards the dog. Yes, we were wrong 40 years ago. I found that out LAST YEAR. What do you people want--us to be psychic and figure all this out and somehow undo 40 years of life so we can replay it?

What you owners need to do is keep better control of your dogs. Many of us may not know much of anything about dogs, but you dog owners should definitely know something about your own pets--because you will be legally responsible if your dog hurts someone, if for no other reason. You can't put it on us dogless ones that it is our fault if your dog misbehaves. You are still responsible for your misbehaving dog -- especially when you let your dog out to run free in my yard --not your yard, MY YARD--and the only way I can avoid interacting with it is for me and my son to hide inside the house and call animal patrol to pick up your dog--in which case you will be yelling in great outrage at me that I am the one mistreating your dog because it is my job "to understand your dog's needs." Yeah, sure.

And your #$%*! dog does too bark and howl most of the day in the backyard while you are at work!

You're right--I get angry. I'm sick and tired of hearing how perfect the neighbor's dogs are and how I must change my life to adapt to their needs even though they are breaking every animal control law passed by the city.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Lady Brat, you said my exact words when I saw that story. How stupid was that of her to get into a strange dogs face.

I'm not sure why you are so angry Kate. I doubt anyone here would disagree that animal control laws should be strictly adhered to. We were talking about someone who should be knowledgeable about dogs, doing a very stupid thing.

My son was also bitten when he was 9. My fault that I let him pet a strange dog, but even he didn't blame the dog. They were standing outside and it suddenly began raining, which scared the dog and he jumped up and bit my son on the neck. He still loves animals, and we have always had dogs and cats. But that was a lesson for both of us.


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Responsibility

Oh, I completely agree with you Kate, don't doubt that. No matter what a dog does, the responsibility of the dog and for the dog's behavior no matter what it is falls upon the owner - no matter what.

Even if the dog is on a leash and the owner has done everything legally and morally required, if that dog who never showed a sign of agression whips around and bites the leg of a passing pedestrian, the dog owner is completely responsible for not only all the financial burdens but to make sure that the dog never has the opportunity to bite another ever again - even if that means walking the dog around in isolation and getting him there away from others - the full onus falls upon the owner.

I once saw a show which featured a dog who was able to escape the fenced in back yard and run the neighborhood - and all the incredible ways the dog was able to get around every single barricade the man and his friends devised to keep the dog in the yard. It was just incredible.

Regardless, no matter how hard that man tried (he went above and beyond) it was STILL his full responsibility for his dog's behavior. As much so as the guy who opens up his front door and lets his dog run out to roam. Equally as full a responsibity.

Of course both you and your son would do differently in today's world - but even if you didn't, the full responsibility would STILL fall upon the owner of the dog. Even if you both knew the dangers of holding a dogs face - even if your son barked and growled at the dog before holding it's face. I don't know if courts would agree with me but I would still feel that full responsibility for the dog's actions would fall upon the owner.

Full responsibility always goes back to the owner imo for behavior of all kinds including disturbing barking in yards etc.

If ONLY owners would accept that fact, it would be a much better world for our pet dogs.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I agree with Kate. Dog owners know their dog, others may not. If a stranger does something like puts her face down to the dog you tell that person to stop. Most people learn how to treat a dog when young and some like Kate's son and me learn the hard way, the dog that bit me had my little head half in its mouth with one set of teeth under my chin and the other set over my nose. My mother beat the sh*t out of the dogs owner so she learned a lesson too!


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Mixed breed or pure bred?

What kind of dog got ahold of you Ink,?


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

To Kate's defense, 40 years ago kids weren't given the instruction that apparently most have now. Nine times out of ten, a kid will ask..Can I pet your dogs? and I give them the okay. My mother lived in fear of my getting my face bitten off, because being deprived of having pets(which I long since rectified), I would go up and pet anything on four legs. As I said I was taken home screaming by my scout leader at 7 or 8 years old after witnessing a vicious attack by a little Scotty on a friend's face. All the blood..I can still see it in my mind ,so I can see why Kate's son has never liked dogs.

My two 24 pound dogs are fine with people. The Boston mix will roll on his back and wiggle if anyone pays attention to him. His biggest fault is he jumps up on people wanting more petting. ..The Dachshund came as an unknown from a kill shelter. He was aloof at first, not nasty at all but I would not let any kid pet him for the first half year, because even though he's 24 pounds, he's very long and muscular with a wickedly large mouth. After awhile I noticed he started wiggling and wagging his tail when he just heard kids, so I began letting him be petted. Turns out he must have had kind kids in his former life, because he loves little kids , the littler , the better and is as gentle as a mouse. But it's the owner who should at all times secure their dog and proceed from there.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Full responsibility always goes back to the owner

I'm not so sure about that. I am guessing there are extenuating circumstances like if someone is provoking a properly restrained dog and then gets bitten.

Kate, I thought you were around 40 years old!


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

"To Kate's defense, 40 years ago kids weren't given the instruction that apparently most have now. "

Don't know where you grew up Lily but when I was a kid more than 40 years ago, kids were taught not to pet a strange dog. My son who is 38 knew by the time he could walk not to approach a strange dog. That was part of growing up just like learning to look both ways before you cross the street. I don't think that fact is something that just appeared a few years ago.

Yes, laws pertaining to pets should be followed by pet owners but other people have to use common sense relating to those pets just as they use common sense in other things in life.. Sounds to me like Kate is just one of those people who hates dogs. They are out there in the world for whatever reason. Funny how many of those same people are always ready to preach tolerance regarding other things.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Sounds to me like Kate is just one of those people who hates dogs.

Wrong. I'm a bit afraid of strange dogs. I however had pets--2 dogs and 2 cats--my entire growing up years and I loved them.

I'm glad to hear your parents told you not to pet strange dogs, but that subject never came up in my family and none of us ever had any problems. Guess we didn't know any pet owners, or we instinctively stayed aways from strange dogs. Don't know. If it makes you feel better, we were warned to never pet my grandfather's farm dogs because they were not "child-broke," I think the term was. That concept was never mentioned anywhere else, however.

My anger is not directed at dogs, but at dog owners. I've had the misfortune of living repeatedly, no matter what town I moved to, next door to dog owners who would take little or no responsibility for their dogs. Made for some miserable times. My son's episode came along much later--but the dog owner behaved pretty much like the previous ones had. Actually had one dog owner tell me very judgmentally that I should not be hanging around in my back yard because it interfered with his dog's freedom to wander around (with no dog owner in sight). My adult daughter (a dog-lover, by the way) had to report another of my neighbors to the authorities because the neighbors were practically starving the dogs, one of whom was suffering from some medical condition. Should have heard how I got yelled at for that one. Wasn't none of my business how they took care of their pets, etc.!!!!!!!! (My daughter, from out of town, had already gone back home by then, so I was the one that got yelled at.)

And for the record, my adult son does not dislike dogs. True, he's much more partial to cats, but he enjoys his sister's many dogs (and cats). Now there is an animal lover's household--sounds kinda like Lily compensating for growing up in a petless household--LOL!

So you see, I don't hate animals, nor did I raise my kids to hate animals. So quit trying to put blame on me and my son. Find somewhere else to cast your scorn--like at pet owners that do not take responsibility for their pets.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

As I said my mother was worried about my extreme readiness to pet anything that moved, but I still wasn't given instructions to ask first to pet. But back in my day, dogs ran freely around our town and so did I. There were no leash laws .I know how annoying dogs can be, so I try to make my dogs not be a nuisance. I have lived beside two houses that allowed their little yippy dogs to bark all day and even bark louder when they saw me who belonged in my yard. Cruel as I sound, once I poured some water from my second floor bathroom on the head of the neighbors dog, in my yard barking at me inside my house.

To tell you how times have so changed..I had a pet raccoon for two years, rescued by my forester husband as a baby when a tree was cut down. He lived in our basement and went on walks with us and went to my daughter's kindergarten class as a show and tell. He sat on the teachers desk playing with paper clips. Imagine ..a wild animal with no vaccinations!! Thank God, nothing ever happened, but in retrospect, I was courting disaster. It would never happen in a 1000 years today.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Gee, Lily, why couldn't reasonable pet owners like you have moved next door to me. Sure would have caused fewer headaches! Like you, my daughter used to adopt just about every pet within walking distance of our house. In fact, there were a couple dogs that would periodically come over to our house and wait at the door until she came out.

jerzee, gee, I'm flattered to think you thought I was 40, but no such luck. In fact, I will be officially retiring in May--just short of 70. But don't ask me how I ever managed to get this old. I have no idea. LOL


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I'm going to shield kate from the beer cans on this.
Nothing against that dog but the fact is that , as kate said, many people and especially, children who do not own dogs, do not know whether they can safely per an animal and anything about the proper way to approach an animal.
Clearly the anchor woman invaded this dogs space with her hands and with her face.
However, what is the relative culpability of the owner of a dog like this one or the one that bit kate's son back when he was 8?
They know that a dog like that can tear someone a new one and that may in fact be one of the reasons thhey have that kind of pet...for protection.
Are you folks suggesting that these owners who knoe exactly what we are talking about here with the way the woman grabbed the dogs head and got in its face, would not instruct her that she should could pet the dog and tell her to first allow the dog to sniff her hand, palm down and get acquainted before grabbing the dogs head and getting in its face?
And how about the woners of the dog that bit kate's eight?
They just let the kid get bit without taking responsibility for their own pet?
That's BS.
Pit bulls, and certain other breeds that can inflict severe damage with one bite or are prone to act defensively or aggressively, raise the degree of care to which their owners must exercise and thus their duty to the public, especially to innocent children.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 9, 12 at 15:58

As a child I was irrationally terrified of dogs .. would walk three or more blocks out of my way home to avoid a yard with a dog in it. Then daddy bought me a puppy, and the little mutt won me over.

That said, I do not automatically reach for any dog, large or small, and generally I can tell the ones that are friendly and the ones that shout "stay back". LOL

When my children were young I taught them to never reach for a dog. My biggest complaint is owners who would say "oh he/she doesn't bite". Really ?? No teeth eh ?

Had more than a few owners get an attitude, so what ? Two of my children were bitten by a dog and it was entirely their fault. Both dogs were known to be aggressive yet for some reason known only to a higher power, they both walked into back yards where the dogs were secured.

My son got bit in the butt, yeah he was too late trying to run away. Daughter came closer to real injury, her baggie jeans saved her leg.

2 cents


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, my neighbor next door has three very small very sweet dogs. She lets them out to play around the back of her yard all the time, it is so secure that the dogs have never found an opening to escape to the wilderness of the suburban neighborhood *LOL* Anyway, her dogs barked at each other a lot when they played outside and barked at other dog's barking sounds. This is when they all were under six months old.

I never noticed because the side of the house we spend the majority of time in is not in that area so the barking never even registered with me.

But the neighbors on the other side did notice and said something because they spend most of the day out back where her property meets theirs. So, my neighor took an entire week off of work to send the dogs outside and then train them not to bark. She was able to accomplish this but it took her twelve hours a day for the entire week of constant training to do it! The dogs aren't outside much at a time because it gets VERY hot or too cold here for the majority of the year for tiny dogs, but she hit a good time in the spring when this worked out well for her.

I was very impressed with the manner in which she assumed the responsibiity for pet ownership. Now she can run the dogs outside for a nice long while during good weather and let them run and play without much barking at all. She rings a bell when they start up and they all quit.

I'm lucky, my lab has NEVER been a barker at all, not even when people ring the doorbell, barking simply was not in her nature. We had no interest in a guard dog so this was expecially great for us.

My little shih tzu did show signs of barking when playing when we first brought her home as a puppy, but it upset the lab and the lab would start pacing in agitation when the little one barked, so right from day one, I would scold the shih tzu for barking and she caught on just within a couple of scoldings and is now a total non-barker herself. She will make a funny little "quacking" noice when she want's to be noticed or want's something though, since she is so small that I can end up not realizing she is wanting something: her "quacking" catches my attention.

The neighbor behind us, however, has a dog that barks the entire time he is outside, which is a great deal of the time in late evening hours. At night we turn on a fairly loud fan so that it doesn't disturb us when we have gone to bed.

The owner needs to keep the dog inside at all times and when the dog is outside, be out there with the dog to correct it when it barks. That is his responsibility to the neighborhood imo and for barkers, part of the down side of the job of owning a pet - all pets have some sort of down side, it's part of the responsibility of pet ownership to deal well with it. Luckily the dog is indoors all day during work hours and is let out in the late afternoon and left out until after midnight quite often, why I have no idea - what would be the point of having the pet if you aren't with it when you have the opportunity to be with it.

I feel for you, living next to incessant barking, perhaps a nicely worded anonymous note telling them that the barking causes problems could help? Sometimes people don't think it's a problem if nobody complains. Those dogs need to be kept indoors and supervised at all times when outdoors as if they are much older, it might too late for them to be kindly but effectively trained not to bark.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

"Are you folks suggesting that these owners who knoe exactly what we are talking about here with the way the woman grabbed the dogs head and got in its face, would not instruct her that she should could pet the dog and tell her to first allow the dog to sniff her hand, palm down and get acquainted before grabbing the dogs head and getting in its face?"

No heri, I would have instructed the woman not to touch the dog. I don't allow anyone my dogs aren't familiar with to pet them; not that my dogs are vicious but because you just never know. A child could pull an ear or grab their muzzle, who knows. I don't want my dogs hurting anyone and I don't want them getting hurt so I don't take any chances. I had one idiot come up to me when I was walking my dogs in the park and ask if his little girl could pet them. I told him that I didn't allow strangers to pet them because I didn't want to take a chance of anything happening. This guy told me "Oh it's OK, we'll take the chance." Yeah and if my dogs had snapped the child the imbecile would have been ready to kill my dogs and sue me.

"Pit bulls, and certain other breeds that can inflict severe damage with one bite or are prone to act defensively or aggressively, raise the degree of care to which their owners must exercise and thus their duty to the public, especially to innocent children"

And what about this idiots duty to Max. Because of her stupidity Max could possibly be killed. I'm sure the woman had petted Max before the show so the owner thought that Max would be OK with her petting him and he was. Of course the owner didn't know the idiot woman was going to be stupid and grab Max's muzzle and try to kiss him. Oh and by the way, Max is not a Pit Bull.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Mylab, your neighbor who took the time to train her dogs is one in a million. But I don't want my dogs to stop barking, because that's one of the pluses of having them. Anytime someone opens our picket fence gate, there is raucous barking in the house which is good. This is a good deterrent for burglars. And strangely the Dachshund sounds like a Mastiff..low deep bark. The other dog would drive you nuts if he was allowed to continue..His bark is more like a yelp. My dogs are in the house in winter only out to potty and go for a long walk. In the summer they are outside when I'm out and never left alone to bark.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

When my daughter was bitten on the face by a dog - she was three, and leaned too close, it only took about 2 months for the swelling and bruising to go away. You couldn't see any scars past the age of 5 or so.

In this case, with a ripped lip, it should take a couple of months to heal as well. Maybe, as a TV anchor, she can get her insurance to pay for what ever further cosmetic surgery is needed as well.

/just trying to balance the outpouring of sympathy for the dog


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

when a dog is out in public it is ALWAYS the owners responsibility to keep it under effective control.

1. I question the owners ability to control this animal....otherwise it would not have been ignoring him , going out on the ice to chase the other animal.

2. If my dog had been through such an ordeal , I sure as anything would not have agreed to subject him to a TV interview. with all the lights and noise etc.
very scary and unfamiliar.

3. It was the owners responsibily to caution the interviewer when she started to invade the animals space.

oh and Lady Brat"I'm sure the woman had petted Max before the show so the owner thought that Max would be OK "
how ON EARTH can this be anything more than your assumption??

Kate and David I am sorry that your children had these bad and painful experiences.

BTW, about responsibily.....I own border collies and the younger one does agility training and flyball training as enrichment...there is a dog at the dog school that has snarled at my dog many times....as a result my dog hates it.
I CHOSE to have my dog wear a yellow scarf at school (club warning device that lets people know to give her extra space)as I feel her behaviour may become unpredictable around this particular dog....this is an example of a dog owner taking responsibilty.

BTW the Australian press reported that the dog was not leashed and that the owner will be charged with having a dog unleasehed in public.

Why is it so easy for anyone to obtain such large potentially dangerous dogs...without any training?
I dont just mean in America , as we have the same problem here.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Thank you, youngquinn, for your sensible remarks and viewpoint on this subject.

Mylab, you can move in next door to me with your dogs any time you want! : )

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The dog that bit me was a terrier of some sort, its name was Bonnie. Anyone who believes that some dogs are less likely to bite than others may one day have a shock. We have two shi tzu's (is that how it is spelled?) at the moment,my wife's nephew has two American Pitbull's. One day the female Pitbull jumped up on my lap, a real baby and one of the little guys attacked. One snap from the PB and there goes our little dogs head right? The PB's back away.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Ink I take your point that all dogs can be unpredictable...but for me it is all about POTENTIAL.

If a chihuahua goes berserk the most you can expect is a smallish bite and a fright.
if a Pit bull decides to go berserk....you are dead, and I can quote plenty of evidence of this.
IMO pitt bulls have noplace in the suburbs...where our children play and our elderly walk.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

True Yq although I think it may be that all dogs are predictable. The shi tzu take one snap and they are done, afterwards they run under the bed whereas something like a Rottweiler might drag you off into the undergrowth to dine in peace. If you know this you can act accordingly and running away doesn't work. I knew a guy who had been in the French Foreign Legion and he told me that they were taught what to do should a big dog attack you, he said "You gwab ze dogs, how you say, nose and tear eet off." I said, "Do you know where a dogs nose is situated Claude?" he said "Of course eet is right en haut ze mouse." Say no more.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Gee... when I talk about owner responsibility and leash laws and containment, I get lambasted over hot coals! And now everyone is in agreement? What?

Media has this much sway over the average listener's opinion?

I bet you can't count the number of times I've stated that owners, along with everyone else involved in the pet world, need to be more responsible, more educated, use more common sense, and actually follow the leash and other laws on the books... they were written for a reason.

And to top it off, this anchorwoman is known for doing the pet segment of the show? And she STILL has the stupidity to invade the personal space and dead stare this dog in the eyes and try to kiss it? What do you think that dog read as intent? He felt threatened!

What would another human being being do in this same situation, not knowing you, and you grabbed their cheeks and shoved your face in theirs? Wouldn't you expect some sort of negative reaction?

The bottom line is... this poor animal will now probably suffer for the irresponsibility and lack of common sense in what we call the more intelligent species.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air77

if it does suffer it will be because of the ownners lack of common sense..as it was the OWNER who was in control of the animal., not the interviewer.

why are you annoyed that people are in agreement? Perhaps when you raised the same points you had a different set of responders, thats all.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I was just in town, and if you hurry, you can buy a pit bull puppy from the back of a truck in the grocery store parking lot, only $50, or so the card board sign says.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The owner was being interviewed on TV. He might have been very nervous (as I would have been) and not necessarily thinking about his dog but about what he was going to say next. The woman had both hands around the dog's muzzle and that is just asking for trouble. What was the guy supposed to do - tell this lady on the air to keep her hand's off his dog? Bottom line - shame on the reporter. A dog is not a person. A dog is a dog and she needed to have some respect for that fact. Who on earth would go eye to eye with a powerful dog and move in for a kiss? Only someone who know nothing about dogs.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 9, 12 at 21:00

Who would step in front of a moving car? Only somebody who knew nothing about them!

Sorry, but blaming the victim never sticks.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 9, 12 at 21:10

The anchor woman was thinking about "ratings" !

Jodik I totally agree about owners. I live in an apartment building that allows dogs. There are two tenants that I have to bite my tongue with. One refuses to keep her dog on the leash and he likes to charge and jump, not mean but aggravating as he$$ when his feet are wet and muddy. The other has three little bitty poodles .. cute as buttons and mean as all get out. He has one of those extended leashes that the dog can go further and further. Coming in the back door one morning one of those little beatches nipped my ankle, good thing I had on boots. The stupid owner never said a word. Wonder what he would have said if I had drop kicked that little shitte across the parking lot.

No I did not kick the little thing, but did have that thought :)

My oldman cat is ornery and mean in his old age, anyone who walks through my door is warned that he "bites". He does not jump all over company and he usually retires to the bedroom because he really does not want to be bothered.

2 cents


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Who on earth would go eye to eye with a powerful dog and move in for a kiss?

Idiots and children. The reporter was trying to show some on-air affection for the dog and took it too far. It all happened very quickly so maybe we were too quick to condemn the dog owner and also to call this tv anchor an idiot, but sometimes there is a confluence of circumstances that create a bad outcome.
With the camera rolling and everyone including the animal a little on edge there. it ended up very badly.

Can we all agree though that this particular dog was not an animal that any one of us would have approached without caution, especially those of us who are dog owners. This dog was not a pit bull. It actually looked like it was even more ferocious and quite a bit larger. One of those instead of a gun will protect your family from intruders and chase the LDS evangelists and door-to-door sales people away.

I wonder how this poor woman is doing. That happened so quick I did not see the teeth marks (nor do I want to see them).


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I've been bitten a few times, mostly by yipping little dogs and an occasional unhappy cat. I was bitten by a Rottweiler with whom I had interacted peaceably for some months. He was the pet of a carpenter/builder who brought the dog on job because the dog was unhappy being left home during the day. The dog and I got along well enough over the course of those months.

One morning I turned the corner into the parking zone and greeted the Rotw. by name and approached the bed of the pickup where the dog have been put by the owner. The dog watched me approach not showing any defensiveness or hostility. Suddenly the dog sprang to the limits of the bed and clasped my face in his jaws, the lower mandible under the chin and the upper one wedged in my eyebrows. At the last fraction of a second I averted my eyes or I surely would have suffered grevious wounding. I yelled out the dog's name and NO! and the dog backed off, leaving me bleeding some but otherwise ok.

I don't blame the dog; she was just defending the pickup and tools therein. If she had meant to hurt me, she could have torn off my face. She knew instantly that she done bad and wanted to "make up".

There is a reason why some public institutions forbade dogs (except helper ones.)


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Heri IMO it is always the owners fault when a dog bites a member of the public.
He chose to take his dog to a TV station, and asked it to submit to an unfamiar situation....the day after it had had a tramatic experience.

I would have kept my dog quietly at home, so sorry I will not let him off the hook.

Marshall that must have been terrifying!


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The anchor was not an innocent passerby or a kid. She was an adult exploiting this man and his dog to create a warm fuzzy story for consumption by viewers to drive tv RATINGS. It could have been a person pulled from a burning car or a kid being surprised by his military father's surprise return home. I find these 2-minute made-for-tv happy vignettes to cheapen the real stories and cringe at the indignity of people not accustomed to selling themselves out who must march before the camera, play a role in a "story", and perform for the anchor.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I don't disagree with much of what you say, kt, but I sincerely doubt even a publicity-hungry TV anchor deliberately set up a dog-bites-TV-anchor story in order to get higher ratings. If nothing else, most anchors are too vain about their appearances to be willing to sacrifice them for ratings.

I might find it more plausible if you argued that she was so intent on the feel-good story that she didn't stop to consider how the dog might react, but if poor judgment (rather than ignorance) was the motive, I'd still say she had to pay too high a price (good grief, a dog biting your face! Talk about trauma! Especially when making your living depends on your appearance!) and the owner still bears the blame for not keeping his dog under control.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

"if it does suffer it will be because of the ownners (sic) lack of common sense..as it was the OWNER who was in control of the animal., not the interviewer."

I don't think the owner should have exposed the dog to the stress of going on the show especially after the trauma he had experienced the day before. In the owners defense regarding his action during the show however, I don't feel he can be blamed. The owner not only had his dog leashed but was also holding the collar of his dog; he had a tight hold on the collar, had the dog pulled in close to him yet the woman still got right down into the dogs face. What more could the owner be expected to do? Of course if it had been me I think I would have told her not to get in the dogs face when she kept getting closer and closer but the owner was probably unsure of exactly what to do with them being live thus his tight hold on the dog. However you look at it, the woman is to blame for acting so stupidly.

"Sorry, but blaming the victim never sticks"

So why are you blaming the dog. Max is the victim of this woman's stupidity. Hopefully Max won't be euthanized but it is a possibility. That's a big price to pay for some one else's irresponsible actions.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Yesterday, this was the lead story on the same TV station. The dog, as all dogs who bite, is now in a 10 day quarantine at the Denver Dog Biter place, by law, but as this is his first bite, the head guy they interviewed (at length) said that his prognosis for release was very good. Its only when dogs bite multiple times that they risk being put down, and the station gave the actual numbers from last year, <1%.

Yes, the station were inundated with emails and twits about the dog, and after covering the dog side of the issue for about 8 minutes, they mentioned that Ms Dyer was leaving the hospital after a couple days stay.

I could detect a sense of confusion on the part of the rest of the anchoring crew, here their friend and colleague had her face ripped up by a dog, and all the concern being showed for the dog. But they went with the dog angle / ripped face angle at about 95 - 5.


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article in Denver paper

"Kyle Dyer, the 9News anchor bitten in the face by a dog during a live broadcast Wednesday morning, was released from the hospital Thursday, but the station has not said when she will return to work.
On its website, 9News characterized the reconstructive surgery to Dyer's lip at Denver Health Medical Center as "extensive medical treatment,"
"Kyle has a loving family, close friends and great support system to be with her during this time," 9News stated.
Dyer was bitten as she enthusiastically petted the head of an 85-pound Argentine Mastiff named Max during a segment on the morning show. The dog had been rescued from a mostly frozen pond in Lakewood on Tuesday by a West Metro Fire Rescue diver, as a TV news helicopter filmed the drama.
When Dyer nuzzled her face near the dog's mouth, Max snapped at her.
The dog's owner, Michael Robinson, was being interviewed, along with the diver, at the time.
The Robinson family released a statement Thursday, which was posted on Facebook:
"The past two days have been incredibly difficult for our family. We are truly saddened that Kyle Dyer of 9News was injured during a celebratory interview following Max's rescue. Our family and friends pray for a quick recovery and look forward to seeing Ms. Dyer back on-air soon.
"The only reason we agreed to do the interview following Max's rescue was to show how truly grateful we are for the life-saving rescue of Max by Tyler Sugaski and the crew from Lakewood Fire Department Station No. 12."
Max is being held at the Denver Animal Shelter in quarantine for 10 days, as is protocol after a bite.
The Robinsons said in their statement that Max has no history of aggression and is up-to-date on his vaccinations.
"Max is a gentle, loving, family dog," they stated. "Max is well-mannered and obedient, and he hardly barks. This incident truly is unfortunate and does not reflect Max's disposition towards people."
Dyer was unable to speak Thursday because of the bite and surgery to repair it, but she was on her feet and in good spirits, 9News said.
Patti Dennis, the station's vice president for news, said Dyer would return to the air, but she did not estimate when that would be."

I'm sure, when she can talk again, she'll apologize profusely to the dog, dog owner, and the world-wide support network of dog lovers who have come to the defense of Max.

I'd bet money that someone is already selling "FREE MAX" t-shirts.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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Blame the victim syndrome?

I never support "blame the victim." Doesn't matter if the victim should have known better or not. To jump to another realm, think how often in the past victims of muggers or rapists were blamed--the victim shouldn't have been so dumb to be in that part of town, the victim shouldn't have been so dumb to wear that tight skirt, etc. In other words, the victims deserved to be mugged or raped because they were so dumb as to cause themselves to be a victim. Fortunately, the law has more or less caught up with my view--that no matter how "dumb" my behavior is, I still do NOT deserve to be a victim. Therefore, the victimizer (not the victim) will be held responsible.

The one significant difference here is that the dog was evidently being closely held and couldn't get away when it was uncomfortable. It is too bad the anchor didn't exercise better judgment, but that doesn't mean she deserved to have her face ripped up. She didn't victimize herself by biting her own face. The dog bit her and evidently seriously enough that she was in the hospital for a couple days. The dog did that to her. She did not do it to herself.

Perhaps the real answer here is that it was a "no-fault" (because everyone was at fault) situation--an accident waiting to happen, as it were. But I will never agree that the victim deserves whatever it was that happened to the victim.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, are you REALLY suggesting I was claiming the anchor set up a dog bite for ratings. REALLY? I won't even dignify this ridiculous statement with a response. I'm out of here. Tired of having my statements taken out of context and ducking beer cans. Kate believe it or not, NONE of my posts have been about YOU or your KID. Good luck to you.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Well, I'm sorry you feel like I took your comments out of context. I thought you were arguing that the anchor was to blame for what happened to her (she was "not innocent," you say). If I mis-read the meaning there, I apologize, but I've spent so many years arguing against the "blame the victim" syndrome that I do bristle a bit at the blame-the-anchor suggestion I thought I saw there.

Kt, I did NOT think any of your posts were about me or my kid. I'm not sure why you think I thought they were. I thought at this point that we were talking about the dog on TV and the TV anchor, not about me and what happened to my son 30 years ago.

Maybe we all better give up here. This is all getting very confused on all sides, especially when a poster I admire thinks I'm throwing beer cans at him.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The dog is just as much a victim as the news anchor. Remember that dogs cannot reason. Dogs are animals and will react as animals do when they feel threatened. Even calm dogs might be confused in this situation. You can't blame the dog for showing dog behavior. The dog was trapped between his owner and the news anchor who kept getting closer and closer. He had nowhere to go. Even if you knew absolutely nothing about dogs, would you try to kiss an 85 pound mastiff? I LOVE dogs but I would have shown that big guy a lot of respect and certainly not challenged him the way that woman did.

And I do feel sorry for her because I know she's a good person and hope she makes a speedy recovery.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Yesterday I borrowed a friend's small dog to walk to DD's school. She is a nice little dog, but when surrounded can get scared. Therefore I pick her up when we get to the school (and DD is in a special class 1x a week that goes an hour later so there are not throngs of kids around).

Although I stood away from the children, of course they want to see the dog. I told them as they came close to me, DON'T PET HER, SHE GETS SCARED AND MAY BITE.

The children did NOT listen. One little girl stuck her face RIGHT in the dog's face and I had to pull back. The dog did not bite, she very rarely does as she really is a very kind dog. But when she feels threatened, she reacts with what she has to defend herself:

TEETH.

I had to aggressively step back from 3 children who DID NOT LISTEN to me kindly asking them to just look. Then I had to raise my voice to keep them away.

Now, this is a small dog. She's never broken skin when she's nipped, and she's only nipped DD twice, (both deservedly, I thought).

WHAT on Earth gives people the right to step right into a strange face and touch? Would they do that to a person? Why do that to a dog? Because it's cute?

Would you be ok with a stranger stepping right into your child's personal space and touching them even if they were giving signs of being afraid (like trembling, growling, cowering)? If a strange man stepped up and did that to DD I'd advise her to step on his foot as hard as she can, scream, and run away. And yes, if she can get a bite on the nose in, by all means... go ahead.

I'm not a big animal person, but I do think there is common sense where animals are concerned. Do not trust them unless their owner gives you reason to, and never, ever, trust them entirely unless they are YOUR animal.

I'm amazed at parents who let their children stick their fingers in bird cages, stick their faces up next to strange dogs, and pick up strange cats. Have you ever had a cat turn and give you the full face claw? I have. And it was MY cat.

Animals are sentient beings. They are not stuffed toys. Treat them with caution and respect, and you will most likely not get hurt.

My .02


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

To me, your story illustrates the need for owners (or those in charge of the dogs) to avoid situations that might result in unintended harm. Kind of like defensive driving. If you know that groups of children are likely to get a bit carried away about a dog, do not carry that dog into the midst of a group of children or where there are a number of children. That would be the dog owner's (or care-taker's) responsibility. If that dog had bit one of those kids, you and your dog would also suffer--you in terms of the medical bills you would have to pay and your dog by having to go to doggy prison/detention for 10 days. In some cases you might also have to pay a fine.

A responsible dog owner/caretaker doesn't foolishly carry or walk a dog into a situation they know will produce a number of inappropriate responses--or even one inappropriate reponse.

I do congratulate you, however, in directly stating (more than once), do not do that or the dog might bite. Until someone is told that, they don't know that. However, do not be surprised if children need to be told many times. At least my kids usually had to be told several times just about anything I seriously wanted to get across to them. Weren't your kids that way too?

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 10, 12 at 11:49

>the victim shouldn't have been so dumb to be in that part of town, the victim shouldn't have been so dumb to wear that tight skirt, etc. In other words, the victims deserved to be mugged or raped because they were so dumb as to cause themselves to be a victim<

Yep: same thinking exactly. The victims need to take personal responsibility.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, I'm pretty sure my post was about how the media loves to create these warm fuzzy 2 minute stories for the viewer (as a break from wars and shootings) where, in this case, a dog kiss is the cherry on top. I can't imagine how anyone could think I was suggesting a dog bite was the plan all along.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, to me there is a big difference between an 8 year old child unknowingly (unknowing of the danger) putting his face near a dog's face to be licked, kissed and an adult doing it. An 8 year old child would not know better even IF they had been told not to do it. When I was 4 my Brother told me "never put anything into an electrical outlet" and as soon as he left the room I stuck a bobby pin in there to see what would happen. Granted 4 is young, but children often do not realize the ramifications of their actions, clearly. Anyone who is a parent has experienced this.

There is a big difference between an 8 year old child and an adult. No one said she "deserved" to get bitten but by the time you reach adulthood, there are just things that you know. Offering your hand to an unknown dog in a palm-up position is least threatening to the dog and I would think most adults would have learned that along the way.

Granted, no one should put an aggressive dog on a TV show in the first place but maybe this dog was not aggressive normally but less than thrilled at this abnormal situation, having TV cameras thrust in one's face, a whole audience of unknown people.

Clearly there are bad dog owners everywhere and good dog owners. She did not "deserve" to be bitten at all but as an adult, she did not exercise sound judgement.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

This was an Argentinian Mastiff or Dogo Argentino named "Gladiator Maximus." LOL.

If the name was not a "beware of dog" clue for the anchorwoman, the appearance of the dog should have clued her in that this was a guard dog and not merely a cuddly-wuddly pooch.

That breed of dog has been banned in an adjacent county to the location of this interview/bite. I know, we have thrashed out both sides of breed specific legislation here and have agreed to disagree on it. However, don't owners of some of these banned breeds have a slightly higher duty to exercise due care and to make sure that their animal does not bite strangers than say, an owner of a labrador or smaller breed.? I know any dog might bite but consider the degree of damage that can be inflicted by one of these dog. This dog has one of the more powerful jaws in the canine world and like a pit bull, they will fight to the death.

Here is a link that might be useful: Argentine Dogo


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I'm mostly irritated with the owner who let the dog be interviewed. I would've had my sweet baby at home recuperating, protecting them. Bad idea on their part. I might've shown a picture and gone ahead and talked myself, but not the dog.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I agree with you Rob. I think that bringing rescue dogs onset like they do is also taking a chance although after this incident I'm betting all local reporters will be much more careful in the future and the handlers will be far more intently aware of all that is going on.

But this could have happened with any dog at all - that is the problems with all dogs, you really can't predict their behavior despite years of intense training or an excellent history of affability.

That is why I feel that the onus always falls upon the owner of the dog, no matter what. They choose to own a dog who's behavior can never, ever be predicted with 100% accuracy so they choose the responsibility of future actions of the dog to be held accountable for.

I feel sorry for the dog too, but I most certainly feel very sorriest for the bitten woman. She has a long road of recovery ahead of her for reasons she never intentionally brought on herself. She was simply doing her job with the training that was made available to her.

I wish that they had kept the dog at home and maybe instead, made home videos to show the rescued dog finally comfortable and happy in it's normal comfortable, safe and protected environment.

To me that would have been far more interesting to see than a dog sitting there panting while people talk about him.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, your neighborhood will be getting busy with mylab and me moving next door. lol..Seriously, the story was a sweet human/animal one which as I said is welcome after most of the disturbing news out there. It was NOT the dog's fault but the people who made the decision to bring the dog to the set. The two adult men minus the dog with a video would have sufficed. I feel for the woman ,because she was trying to do a human interest story and apparently likes animals. She just went too far. She should have remained on her chair IF the decision was made to have the dog appear.

I have had many cats and four dogs over the years and other than a cat falling on my head( he was sleeping on the top of the chair I was sitting on), I have never been bitten, scratched or clawed by any of my pets. But I did do a dumb thing once. My greyhound was asleep on her bed ,and I crawled up behind her to pet her and she turned , snarled and showed her teeth, then saw it was me. She was a racing dog and probably had to defend her space. It was not her fault but her dumb owner, me.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I am chuckling with the mental image of you sitting in a chair and a cat falling on your head, thanks for the sorely needed giggle Lily! Hope it didn't hurt though.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

No, Kate, I get it. That's why the dog was in my arms, and could not have possibly bit the children. It's approx. 8lbs and I can pull it away from hand level before it ever becomes an issue. The children were not five, they are double digit kids.

If you can't listen to an adult at 10+ to stay back... there's trouble... that's not a four year old. The dog didn't growl or make any motion of aggression, as I said, she's a very well tempered dog unless she feels threatened. It's my job to know when that is, as her owner/caretaker (as Mylab said).

In that case, the owner should not have had her on the show, poor baby. No one would do that to a child, why do it to a dog? And the newsperson should have known better. It's tragic, all around.

But it's not the dog's fault. I'm not an "animal" person. I really would rather not have any, but I do respect their sentient nature and don't like to see them taken advantage of or abused.

And no, if my DD is told, "don't touch the dog, he bites" she doesn't touch the dog. I never had to have child proof locks for her, she never went in my cupboards, etc. She had no interest in "checking the danger".

But I know all kids are different, and my kid's not a saint.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I just read that the woman required 70 stitches, a 4 hour surgery and a skin graft.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

That poor dog! That must have been a real strain on his teeth.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

This is such a sad story for all involved. She clearly overstepped her boundaries with the dog. The dog, I think, gave her more of a correction (dogs do that to make someone or another dog stop bothering them), but getting corrected by an 85 pound dog is way different that getting corrected by a 25 pound dog. Something like this, for whatever reasons, has a terrible impact on all involved. I hope the dog does not suffer for the stupidity of the people around him.

One more thing: the fact is, most people do not know how to appropriately interact with dogs. For the most part, that is not going to seriously hurt them. But one mistake, with one dog can terribly impact all the lives involved. It is on the owner to protect his/her dog and to be sure that all people around his/her dog are safe, regardless of their ignorance. If both handler and "visitor" are both dangerously ignorant, it is the handler's responsibility. A handler cannot claim that someone "shouldn't have" interacted appropriately with his/her dog if the handler allowed it.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Elly, I think you said best. That's what it all boils down to--owner responsibility, not matter how ignorant the "visitor" is or is not.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Thanks, Kate!


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I say this over and over, but I think you need to have more than just a rudimentary understanding of canine behavior, temperament, and genetics to really grasp what I mean. With such poorly regulated breeding going on, a huge contingent of people who don't understand that weeding out the dangerous and unstable animals is a necessary part of responsible breeding, and people who treat animals as though they are furry little people... and these kinds of "accidents" are bound to keep happening... and on a more frequent basis.

There are simply some aspects of canine temperament, aggression, and lack of discretion that can't be controlled through training... which, incidentally, is another aspect of the industry that lacks regulation. This is part of a responsible breeder's job, to know what he has within his bloodline, and to be able to "read" his animals and know what's inherently acceptable and what is not.

Any dog, large or small, can present a danger based on many variables, as Ohiomom's story indicates. Lucky for you, you were wearing boots, which protected your ankles.

The breed of dog in the OP article is of little consequence... any dog in that particular set of circumstances might have behaved in much the same manner.

Think about the trauma the dog had recently been through. Think of what the owner had recently been through, almost losing his dog. Then think about the fact that this anchorwoman's main job is spotlighting animal "feel good" stories for ratings.

Now think about the studio environment, bright, hectic, a strange and unfamiliar place to both dog and owner, both of whom had recently been under tremendous stress... compounding the stress with an interview that could have waited. Add it all up, stir in a little lack of common sense, and you suddenly have a recipe for disaster.

Within every breed of canine, there are good, solid bloodlines maintained by good, responsible breeders. It's so very unfortunate that the junk outweighs the good by a large margin due to greed and ignorance.

I can't blame the dog for the reaction he gave... but I think it's fair to split blame between the humans involved.

And just a few facts for those who don't seem to be aware... The APBT was once an extremely man-friendly dog that you almost couldn't make bite a human. His aggression ran only toward other dogs. That's how he'd been bred for the longest time. He is now what I term a breed without a purpose, and it will take many generations, a lot of work, and the dedication of true breeders to turn him into a useful member of the canine family. At this point in time, I wouldn't own one.

The Dogo is a man made mixed breed, relatively new as canine breeds go, and just like any other canine, his inherent qualities are the product of whomever bred him and how much knowledge was involved. Not every breeder breeds for the same qualities... and unfortunately, a lot of prospective owners are drawn in more by the macho myth surrounding the animal... which in too many cases is more fallacy than fact.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

This is why you get a mixed breed from a shelter.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Jodik you say "The APBT was once an extremely man-friendly dog that you almost couldn't make bite a human" and yet in your same post you say"The breed of dog in the OP article is of little consequence... any dog in that particular set of circumstances might have behaved in much the same manner"
so I actually dont know why you are mentioning APBTs.

so I am not really sure what point you are making.

I dont agree aboput splitting blame between the two people.
who had charge of the animal?

who should have been able to read the animal?

wha made the decision to take this recently traumatised animal to the TV studio?

I have said before , anyone with any sense would have had that animal resting at home!

IMO it is always the owners fault

and BTW I did actually do some research about foundation stock.I never read your original post so I thought I would investigate.

Is it correct that you register them to get the breed established?...but they are not necessarily used for breeding?
I am wondering why you used such animals in such poor condition that they needed to be put down after, for your foundation stock registation?

Now if You can point me to the original post where you discuss this some of these questiones may have been already answered....(I did try to find it) and if so then I am sorry.

You may see my asking these questions on this thread as innapropriate...but as you were talking about breeding stock..etc it jogged my memory.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air88

After re reading what I wrote I think I need to clarify.
Jodik , in your first para you blame poor breeding for "these accidents continuing" but then you go on to say that any dog in similar circumstances would behave the same?


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

First of all, YQ, "once was" is a lot different than "today". Since the Animal Welfare Act was passed in 1976, the APBT has had no real direction in breeding. It is, as I mentioned, now a breed without purpose. Therefore, in terms of breeding, it is not the same animal of yesteryear. It has been crossbred, and many remain in very inexperienced "breeder" hands. That part should be rather easy to grasp.

Every dog and what it will potentially become begins in the hands of the breeder. A true, knowledgeable breeder will weed out the animals of questionable genetic integrity, and that includes a lot more than the layperson might think about. A true breeder would never think of making a crossbreed, because history tells us that it often adds more problems than it fixes.

From there, it depends upon the reason the "breeder" is breeding, and whom he sells his animals to. Not all breeders are reputable or responsible, and not a lot of prospective owners do their homework before purchasing.

The newswoman approaching should have been able to "read" the animal and bear the responsibility.

By your logic, YQ, if I come up and kick your dog in the testicles and it bites me, that's your fault because you're the owner? That makes no sense.

A dog has two drives: fight and flight. In the studio situation it was forced in, trapped between the owner and the anchorwoman, flight was not an option.

Sadly, people answer these questions by saying "get a mixed breed from a shelter." But this gives you even less information regarding the potential or predictability of the animal.

The reality of it is, take a poorly bred Rott, breed it to a Pit Bull Terrier, and now you have a fear driven Rott with the physical ability of the Pit Bull, commonly called the Bullweiller. And these are quite common at shelters.

Another poor breed is a cross between a Dobe, who was solely bred for the purpose of biting humans, crossed with a Pit Bull Terrier, and you now have the Pitobe, another breed often euthanized in shelters, very aggressive and dangerous animals that can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain the intricacies of canine breeding as it pertains to the story in the OP. I'm of the opinion that some people either do not read what posters write, or they are under some very false delusions when it comes to our "best friends". My only hope is that no one is injured as a result of lacking knowledge.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Sadly, people answer these questions by saying "get a mixed breed from a shelter." But this gives you even less information regarding the potential or predictability of the animal.

Perhaps, but I think many of us with experience around dogs, mixed breed and otherwise, know that any dog has the potential to bite depending on the circumstances they are put in. You yourself have mentioned in the past that you have had dogs in your pure bloodlines that you have had to put down for biting (fear biting curs, you called them) and yet many others have experience with shelter mutts of unknown parentage with the sweetest dispositions.

I guess what I am trying to say is that even top of the line purebred and heavily culled dogs like your bloodlines have "biters" while unknown mutts are some of the sweetest out there.

Bloodline means nothing. How a dog is treated or what kind of situation he is put into means a lot more to whether the dog will bite. Those Pitobes or Bullweillers you mentioned are generally not agressive and dangerous animals because of their breeding, but rather the KIND of person who breeds them, owns them, and trains them. Wannabe tough guys who want tough dogs. The socialization of the dog is the problem.

Surely you must run into this with your own breed. Generations of the bloodlines that you put all your care into breeding, only to have some end up in the hands of a wannabe tough guy who treats the dog badly, trains it to be mean, does not socialize it or abuses it...


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The latest in the saga. Dog is released to owner, and in today's paper:

It was the dog bite that's turned Denver rabid.

On his Facebook page, affable 9News entertainment reporter Kirk Montgomery wrote there's a special place in hell for whoever at the local Fox affiliate has chosen to keep airing the slowed-down video of a dog biting 9News co-anchor Kyle Dyer's lip on live TV.

That would be Ed Kosowski, vice president-news director for KDVR and KWGN-Channel 2, who not only ignored but mocked KUSA-Channel 9 for asking competitors not to air the video. Kosowski called those who complied "wimps" who "caved in to pressure from KUSA."

The TV news wars rarely get so personal. But the news rarely strikes those who cover it so close to home. And social-media observers are now getting an uncommon, humanizing reminder that those who report the news are not immune to everyday tragedies themselves.

Asking whether it is fair or foul for TV stations to air the Dyer video is a legitimate journalism question. So too whether Channel 9 acted with journalistic consistency and integrity in the immediate aftermath of the horrific incident.

Homemade video of the Feb. 8 bite was soon readily available on YouTube. And Channel 9 officials acted swiftly to have it removed, which could be argued was an act of hypocrisy, bullying or outright censorship.

Do the rules change when the media becomes the story? The station deliberately downplayed the severity of Dyer's injuries in medical updates it released that day. Viewers were told only that Dyer had been taken to the hospital for treatment, which hardly communicated what we know now: She was undergoing emergency reconstructive surgery after the 85-pound Argentine mastiff took off half her upper lip, requiring 75 stitches. She lost a lot of blood, and her lips were sewn shut.

Acting out of sensitivity to Dyer's family and co-workers, Channel 9 willfully chose to withhold information from concerned viewers, many of whom witnessed the incident on live TV. And that, in this isolated incident, calls its public trust into question.

Governmental and police agencies seek to control the flow of information by the media every day. But it's the media's job to disseminate the most current information available as quickly and accurately as possible. Not to obstruct it. It's a slippery slope.

But if Channel 9 is guilty here, better to be guilty of restraint than outright classlessness. That airing the video constitutes fair use by Fox is indisputable. So too was its classlessness in taunting Channel 9 in response. And the journalistic merit in continuing to air the clip now - slowed down for maximum, Murdochian effect - is dubious at best.

The Dyer story has been covered by media around the world. Newspapers like the Durham (N.C.) Herald Sun have embedded video of the bite. The Denver Post (Channel 9's media partner) has chosen to keep the video off its website, running instead a photograph of Dyer with the dog prior to the incident. Editor Greg Moore calls that an exercise in taste, provenance and good judgment.

"We have reported the story as thoroughly and as sensitively as possible," Moore said. "Anyone reading would understand exactly what happened. We were aware that there was some bootleg video out there. Later, after 9News asked us not to run it as a matter of sensitivity, we agreed."

When news is breaking, editors make dozens of instant judgment calls. Sometimes they don't know for weeks or months whether those calls are the right ones.

When my father was teaching me to drive at age 15, his advice for treating aggressive drivers was to simply imagine you are following a friend who has just lost a loved one. If you do, chances are you'll resist the urge to honk and flip the bird.

This Dyer incident is a reminder to everyone on both sides of the TV (and printed page) that devastating things happen in our community every day. In this case, 9News was following a friend - and Fox flipped the bird.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

HG, I hate to even say it... but when it comes to the many breeds and mixed breeds out there today... there's experience... and then there are all the other necessary variables that go along with that... such as knowledge of breeds' histories, being able to accurately read a dog's body language and know what it signals, realizing the capabilities and unpredictability of any dog, etc.

Shelter mutts can be sweet and all that, but... every living thing is a combination of both its genetic heritage and the environmental stimulus it receives. So, if you happen to get a sweet, wonderful shelter mutt, it's more through luck than anything else.

Dogs, like men, are either born with courage or without it. No matter how good the trainer, this cannot be instilled.

We have never sold a dog to a wannabe tough guy... but I've explained how our program worked so often... I do get tired of repeating myself. We sold strictly through word of mouth, and there were many, many conversations and meetings before the dog in question was even bred and born. Our waiting list was long, and we didn't advertise. We didn't breed just because we had buyers. It was never our intention to sell puppies for a living. We made breedings to improve our bloodline, kept what we needed and sold the excess.

Part of the buyer's requirement were pictures, and updates about the dog. And at 2 years of age, they were required to supply us with an official temperament evaluation, performed by one of the many trainers we worked with throughout the years.

Poor socialization usually leads to dogs that avoid contact with humans, and not to aggression.

The bottom line in any breeding is this: we can manipulate Mother Nature to a certain extent, but we cannot control the outcome. And there is no breeder on this planet, I don't care how professional or experienced he is, who has a 100% success rate in producing perfectly bred pups every time. It does not happen that way, and anyone who tells you they've never had to cull, or never have had a genetic issue is full of $hit. You can take that to the bank.

Unfortunately, most breeders sell animals with genetic issues, poor temperaments, and a plethora of other issues as "pet quality". The original meaning of "pet quality" was to describe a small cosmetic flaw which would not allow the dog to do well in the show ring, but had no effect on its health.

Unfortunately, these days, pet quality means buyer beware... sold as is, no guaranty.

And most crossbreds founds at shelters began as $50 puppy ads in the local newspaper. The price attracts impulse buyers who soon figure out what raising a dog is all about, and the poor things suddenly end up at shelter.

When you've waited a year or two or more to obtain that dog, at a much higher cost, it is much more unlikely you'll find that animal at a shelter. Most contracts read that should the owner have to get rid of the dog for any reason, the breeder has first option at receiving the animal back. And there are some very legitimate reasons... allergic reactions, family illnesses or deaths, a move that will not allow animals, etc.

Bloodlines mean everything! Especially when you consider the fact that half of every living thing IS its genetic base, and the other half is comprised of environmental issues. Bloodline separates working animals from show animals, healthy from unhealthy, and so much more.

In the history of our kennel, we have not had one inappropriate bite happen. And we have had multiple reports of children antagonizing and abusing dogs before a parent could intervene.

One time, when our eldest son was 2, he decided locking 7 pairs of vise grip pliers on his dog's skin would be an interesting thing to do... why, you might ask? Because he was 2, and he was playing with Daddy's tools. The dog just ran around the yard with my son, playing and having fun as they always did. That's discretion. That's how a dog should behave when children are involved.

I can't tell you how many times my own AB, Minnie, was involved in WWF wrestling matches in the front yard, with the kids body slamming her, chasing her, trying all sorts of WWF moves... she loved it! The kids were her world... and she'd do anything to keep them safe, and she loved playing with them! That's discretion, that's the temperament we want.

"Fear biting cur" is an expression used to describe an animal with a very poor temperament... one that would bite out of fear, lacking courage and confidence. I do not recall ever saying we kept dogs and experienced bites from them in such capacity.

No offense to you, HG, but what the general public doesn't know about our domesticated best friend could overflow an Olympic sized swimming pool... and then some. And for the last time... with a little knowledge and responsibility... and a lot less greed... we wouldn't need shelters and rescues, and we wouldn't have half the problems associated with most canines today.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Jodi, I think it's marvelous that the dog ran around with 7 pairs of vice pliers on the dog and that the other children could body slam another dog in play and not get bitten - but I do hope that one of the two of you got out there and immediately put a stop to it all, carefully explained to them that dogs can feel pain and discomfort just like people do and that is behavior that wouldn't ever be tolerated.

I am not a breeder and don't know enough about canine behavior to know what to expect from a dog (except that no training can produce an absolute trained behavior reaction 100% of the time) but I do feel strongly that children should not be allowed to ever treat a dog roughly which would produce pain, not ever without an immediate response to the behavior.

Before everybody climbs all over you (waiting...waiting...) I'm sure that you DID stop this as soon as it was discovered and of course a 2 year old would not realize that the plier vises could hurt the dog - but I'm just putting it out there that it is my uneducated opinion that it's not right to allow kids to unknowingly abuse a dog and then punish the dog if it tries to protect itself or stop the pain.

It's not something to be proud of that kids unknowningly abused a dog and the dog didn't bite them - it's a kind of sad thing.

If a human is put into pain on and off over a period of time for no reason they can figure out, by someone who claims to love him, he might eventually physically attack that person to stop them from hurting them again. It would not be considered an unexpected response.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Photobucket


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Owner responsibiity

David, I'm not defending the dog at the woman's expense.

Dog owners are ALWAYS responsible for whatever the dog does, I've said that many times here. However I do think that dog owners have to be responsible FOR a dogs well being too, and that especially includes the behavior of their children towards an pet which lives in the home. And simple compassion for another living being.

We did not get our first dog until our child was old enough to follow instructions and more than old enough to understand that his action could cause another pain. That is what worked best for us and in the best interest of both our child and our future family pet.

We waited until he started grade 1. Others could possibly expect that sort of complete understanding earlier, or perhaps later - we waited until we were positive that he was more than old enough to always be gentle with the pup and future fully grown dog due to an understanding of the need to be.

We never had a problem in that area, they loved each other completely and were best buddies, never rough with each other.

Cleaning up outside after the dog and being sure the water bowl was always clean, fresh and full was another story, he apparently never quite gained full maturity to handle the down side of owning a dog -

I ended up being the "business manager" and always have been with all the dogs we have ever had.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I happen to think the same, mylab, dog owners should be held responsible for what their dogs do. Your dog rips up a kids face, you should pay all the medical expenses, including reconstructive surgery.

As an aside, we had a repeat from the news helicopter / brave fireman / dumb dog owner letting his dog out on thin ice / rescue on the 5:00 news again on Saturday, but this time around, the dogs' owner didn't want to come forward.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I hope you didn't have to wait too long mylab.

I saw that earlier and winced, but figured I'd let someone else address it. Thank you, I guess.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The rescue bill should be presented to the dog owner - the dog owners already had prior knowledge of what could happen letting a dog off leash (against the law?) to run around a body of water turned to ice and did it anyway??

Off leash, no less.


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RE: and for those wondering the same thing

How does a 2 year old go unattended long enough to gather 7 pairs of vice grip pliers, attach them all to the animal and then time to spare to run around and play?

(Shaking my head)


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

So, if you happen to get a sweet, wonderful shelter mutt, it's more through luck than anything else.

Jodi, there is much with what you posted above that I disagree with but I am not going to go down the list. I cannot tell you how many "vicious", "aggressive","untrainable", "fearful" dogs we have received at the shelter. All have been trained (with time and patience) and have gone on to homes where they are now wonderful pets. We never had anyone who brought one home complain or bring it back. One of them was returned to the former shelter 3x by 3 different people. He was on death row when we took him because other shelters thought he was not placeable and were ready to euthanize him. It took a lot of work and patience but now the dog is no longer aggressive. We do not place these dogs with families with children and always make sure that we "train" the owners and they know they history of the animals beforehand. We also have an open door policy if someone needs help we are there and will either take the dog back or do retraining sessions. So it isnt always luck, it is the handlers and learning how to deal with these dogs. We have one now that has been with us for 7 months and the difference is astounding. The dog was brought in for dog aggression and now you wouldn't know he had any problems. He spends his days frolicking with 32 other dogs.

but I do hope that one of the two of you got out there and immediately put a stop to it all, carefully explained to them that dogs can feel pain and discomfort just like people do and that is behavior that wouldn't ever be tolerated.

So do I. That behavior would not be acceptable in my home and IMO not the way to teach children how to treat animals.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

DH was kind enough to dig out my old 'puter from the basement. It was unfortunately slower than this one, but I found jodik's site amongst the bookmarks. I recall now that I had admired a piece of jewelry she had made and saved it for inspiration, as I'm into the same hobby. Some really nice stuff.

Anyway, one of the first things that struck me when I read jodik's post was, why didn't the dog move or run after the 1st vise grip? Why stick around for 7 of them?

I was reminded of the answer as I reviewed the site. Perhaps I'm wrong (I seriously hope so), but it appears the dogs are bred for attack (I think I have mentioned this before). Part of attack training or 'extreme dog breeding' is teaching the animal to accept and deal with pain. No wussie dogs allowed.

Again, I sincerely hope I'm off-base, but this story makes zero sense and I'm hoping to make some sense of it.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Well, that picture scared the ....out of me. OMG..the size of that jaw!!Poor lady. I hope she recovers well. I think I'm a good and responsible dog owner. My dogs both could use some training in not to jump up, but it's only because they want to lick you to death. My Dachshund was the unknown rescue. The other one I got at 6 months and he was turned in because of health conditions of the first owner. He came with a crate and other toys and goodies so he was loved. The other one came from a kill shelter in WVA where he was turned in because"we have too many animals". Indeed this dog had issues with other big dogs. I wouldn't let him be petted by kids for months not knowing his story with them, but he wiggles and goes nuts when seeing a kid, the smaller the better. It's other dogs he has a problem with..particularly big black dogs. My solution is taking him to the doggie park every week for socialization and watching him carefully. H's so much better now and while he doesn't search others to play with he's tolerant of those coming in his little circle. But he's tenacious and bold and even went up to a huge horse the other day and barked. Doxies are like that. After two years with me, he's different dog, but I still would not have allowed the anchor lady to put her head near his face.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I didn't want this to turn into a thread where jodi is turned on because of how she raised her kids - not because I'm sucking up to Jodi (clearly I say what I think no matter who it is, in this forum only because that is how this forum seems set up) but because I'm extremely hesitant to criticise another for the methods on how they choose to raise their children unless I think it is a case of neglect or abuse of an immediate nature with the person still raising the child - which doesn't and has never applied in her case.

Did she raise her own as I did mine? No, and vice versa.

Making great financial sacrifices at that particular time in our lives, we sent mine to a Catholic school through his elementary school and middle school years because even though I was having a great deal of trouble with my own faith, I wanted him to be offered the religious education so that he would have a true *option* for how he chooses to believe or not believe when it comes to the subject of a Supreme Being. And it provided an excellent education, much better than the local elementary schools.

I felt that without knowledge about the belief of a supreme being and how any religion goes about dealing with that belief, how can there be a true choice for himself to choose what he would believe as an older teen when natural questions came up? It was a great school, high standards with good teachers and none of the physical abuse that used to take place in Catholic schools (which I never experienced myself) I very much wanted him to have knowledge, and presented in such a way that I never could have. When he was a teen I told him how I felt and at the time he was going to other churches with friends of different faiths, experimenting with what was out there and thinking about how he, himself felt. He had full knowledge and lived how others live in this country so that his own conclusions would be drawn from his own personal experiences, including the non-judged option from his folks of the choice of believing nothing at all, religion wise. He choose as a young adult to believe and dealt with it in a spiritual way but did not affiliate himself with a religion as he did not like actual organized religions. That is what worked for him and where he found his center.

I believe Jodi felt that to be a very strange way to raise him but was not stated in what I felt to be a critical or ugly way, just that she did not herself feel it necessary to raise a child to believe in something that actually (as I agree) didn't exist. Obviously I felt and did differently when it came to raising our children re belief in a supreme being.

I don't think that if any of us are honest with ourselves, we could say with certainty that we all couldn[t know where our two year old was every minute of every day or what he was doing when out of sight for the few minutes it can take to have a little "fun". They can get so very, very much "accomplished" in such a tiny little bit of time.

My sister had a nubby fabric sofa and her little one got ahold of the old spic and span cleaning stuff and when she was in the kitchen he covered and scrubbed in every piece of cloth furniture with it, they never were able to get all the stuff out of her nubby sofa. She was in the kitchen part of the great room, just barely out of sight - he got it done in just a few minutes. She could hear him babbling cheerfully and thought he was playing with toys. That is called life with a two year old.

There are probably people who would never understand how all of this could take place when she was barely out of sight but could hear perfectly.

There is a YouTube of two little boys who got ahold of a bag of flour and covered everything in the living room with it, including a beloved and brand new expensive sofa - and so oddly I though, a lot of criticism of the mother for not being aware of what they were doing although she was in the house.

I figured it to be a lot of criticism from a lot of women who had some huge "children" shocks ahead of them, maybe not with flour but *something* because everybody ends up with a story when raising a child - everyone. Those who don't have faulty memory. You can't get through the pre kindergarten years without a story about a kid.

I have no idea about the temperment of Jodi's dogs, I don't recall what she has said about them as far as temperment goes and did not read how she has worded what Pauline remembers - exact wording can be intrepreted so differently and often the writer themselves word themselves badly, giving a very incorrect impression. I've done it myself tons of times.

Like in this thread.

I didn't want this to become yet but another dreary, weary thread about Jodi's lacking when it comes to her dogs , I wanted to use what she had stated innocently as a base to put out my own (very strong) point of view about children and dogs and the responsibility of parents about their interaction - it went no further than that, although in re-reading what I wrote I sure do wish I had phrased it differently.

There are things about us all which I personally feel we should keep hands off about - how we raise our children should be hands off unless it is a question from the person, or unless it is of grave and immediate concern for the child. Nobody is a perfect parent, nobody wants to hear what they have or are doing wrong from another poster here, nobody can have all the info necessary to criticise a person about his/her choices when raising children.

I hope everyone will decide to at least keep that one thing a rule of hands off about our kids in conversation here.

Of course, it's up to the individual if they choose not to. I just hope it will be the one thing in here everyone can agree upon when it comes to code of behavior in here.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Again, I sincerely hope I'm off-base, but this story makes zero sense and I'm hoping to make some sense of it.

It appears that the canine in question accepted the 2-year old as her pack leader and accorded the child the deference and respect that was due to a pack leader. Sounds like a very well trained dog to me.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Mylab, I agree. My post was not meant to bash Jodi either. I have differed with Jodi in the past re: dogs and will in the future but that doesn't mean that I dislike her or disagree with her on everything.

I also agree with Jerzee that Jodi has trained her dogs well and they are well aware as to who their leaders are. Pack leaders can be adults or children. That is a well trained dog.

I find it disturbing that yet again Paulines has tried to turn another thread into an attack on Jodi. It has grown very old.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Mylab, all breeds are different... not every breed has the same temperament or pain tolerance. Surely, you could never do the same things with a Pekinese that you can do with a well-bred American Bulldog. The two breeds are nothing alike.

Like his father before him, my husband spent his entire life within the canine world. He is 3rd generation.

Our children were also raised with Cocker Spaniels, that were used to hunt, to flush birds... and those dogs were treated very gingerly. They were also raised with American Bulldogs that were quite different and didn't require handling with kid gloves. Each child also had their own American Tunnel Terrier, which for those who don't know, are great little go-to-ground terriers typically used for hunting.

By the time our eldest son was 12, he could identify more canine breeds and mixes of breeds more accurately than most veterinarians could. He is 4th generation.

In order to understand the relationship of a well-bred American Bulldog to its owner or family, I would have to write a book. Suffice it to say that the dog didn't experience any more than a minor irritant from the vice grip experience.

Now, you could never do the same things with a Greyhound or a Korean Jindo, as examples... but some dogs are just built "Ford" tough. And some kids are built a little over enthusiastic... he's our ADD son, and he was 2 years old. This is precisely why the American Bulldog made such a spectacular dog for him, and also part of what made the breed so intriguing to us.

At 2 years old, our eldest son was also riding a 60cc quad. We did not believe in stifling our children's abilities or holding them back through our own fears.

Paulines, the entire episode took my son a whole 5 minutes. And he was not unattended... he was with his dog... and Dad was nearby. As parents, we would give our own lives to protect our children... I don't know any other humans that would. But that dog, who's name was Perdi, would lay down her life before she allowed ANY harm to come to my son... and of that, I am 100% certain.

It happened within the span of time it took my husband to go from the front yard, through the house, out the back door, into the garage, get a pipe wrench, and go back to the front yard... because the pipe wrench was the only tool he didn't carry in his tool box, and he needed it. In his former profession, as industrial engineer, he didn't have a fully loaded Suzy Homemaker Toolbox.

Epi, we used several trainers in the past, we have never claimed to be trainers, and yet when we listened to them... they always said the same thing... "it's nothing more than a band aid, and without constant reinforcement the dogs will revert."

The one trainer we worked with the most does tons of volunteer work with a particular shelter, and he and the shelter have a policy. When dogs are adopted out, the owner comes a minimum of two times to work with the trainer and the dog before they are allowed to take the dog. The trainer teaches the owner all the basics of obedience, and anything else he may need to know. In the contract, the owner is required to return every 3 months for another class with the trainer, for the first year... at no charge.

Paulines, you are of the old school mentality, where media hype and unrealistic scenarios have been placed in your head.

Read some of George's Armitage's books about fighting dogs written in the 1900's. You will find it far different from what you see hyped in the media today... two dogs being dumped in a dumpster and fighting to their death. That is simply ridiculous! There's a lot of history missing in your knowledge of canines.

We NEVER bred attack dogs! You don't know the meaning of the word "attack dog"... let me translate it for you...

Attack dog = junk yard dog, will bite anything with zero discretion, man, woman, or child.

Personal protection dog = a discretionary dog, 100% safe around ALL children and family members.

And so, you were wrong... as you had hoped... and as I knew you would be. And somehow, I can actually believe you made your poor husband go digging for your old computer just so you could find a link that would "prove" your point against me. Wouldn't it have been much easier to go to Amazon and buy a book called "K9 Bodyguards" by Mike Harlow, so you can read about our kennel from a more truthful perspective... instead of creating your own presumptuous playscript out of pure conjecture, regarding a subject you are... a little less than expert in? A used copy goes for $3.23.

Schutzund = Sport Dog
Ring Sport = Sport Dog
KNVP = more related to Personal Protection.

Police K9's are perfect examples of personal protection dogs... otherwise, they couldn't be turned loose in a house, for fear they would attack the first moving thing, which could be a child. Their dogs are not trained using pain, either.

We have provided dogs to Police Officers who needed a dog with more grit than their service dog, their German Shepherd, could provide.

Mistreating a dog with malice will not bring out aggression. It will give you a dog with a hatred and untrust for anything human. You are describing a scenario in which junk yard dogs are created.

My dog does me no good should I need to put him or her away when people come to visit... because he can't break down a door in the time it would take an attacker to slit my throat.

Why must I repeat and repeat myself? Do some of you not read things and store them in your memory for later discussion? Do some of you not comprehend that which I write?

Now, remember... everything I write as anecdotal pertaining to my life and the lives of my children takes place very rurally. Does anyone need me to explain what that means, or entails? Do I need to remind you that each set of parents have their own methods of child rearing, and not many will match up exactly?

Is there anything else you would like explained so we can put this foolishness behind us and move on. I really detest conversations when only a few of the participants come armed with intelligence and common sense... and others seem in need of a guide to show them where to look, and how to find the truth.


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Dear, Mylab...

I fully understood your first post, and have no issue with it, whatsoever. It was a valid question, and that's why I took the time to reply.

I also agree with you on the subject of raising children... and in your second post, you explained it so well... little kids can do a lot in a short amount of time... even when you're right there!

What many people do not understand is that my husband is one in an estimated 80 people in the USA who possesses the canine knowledge on not only a single breed, but on all breeds, including the more rare. He has been privy to more knowledge from more true breeders and old dogmen, some that have literally created the breeds we now know today.

He has spent countless hours trying to grasp the art of canine training, yet it alludes him. It is a gift, and not one that all self-proclaimed trainers have. It is something that is passed down, generation to generation. You need that uncanny ability to truly read dogs. And while my husband can look at a dog, any dog, and with total accuracy gauge its breed or mix, and whether or not it's a worthy genetic representation of its breed... it is the gift that comes with good training that he simply does not have.

He's the most knowledgeable, respected, responsible, devoted breeder I've ever known... that many people will ever know... he's considered one of the grandfathers of our chosen breed, and is known throughout the true canine world. While other breeders were busy trash-talking their competition, he was busy teaching other breeders how to produce better animals. Some love him... and some hate him. But he doesn't care about that... it's the dogs he cares about... it's always been the dogs.

Since none of us here really knows the other, to the extent of understanding every nuance, it should be a lot more difficult for us to judge each other based upon typed words. And yet, we have a few regulars that almost appear psychic in their ability to know and grasp the intimate lives of others.

And with your second post, Mylab, I understood even more of what you were concerned with. I can fully appreciate how every parent differs, how every child differs, and I think that when it comes to parenting in general... if you end up with young adults that are not in jail, on drugs, or have not been in any serious trouble... and they possess the skill to survive on their own... you have done a damn good job. ;-)

Our oldest son began first grade in a Catholic school... after one week, he came home and told Dad that he hated the school because they made him kneel on dried peas because he refused to say a prayer. So, he was pulled out of Catholic school and placed in public, where he did just fine. After that, all our kids attended public school.

Their religious, or spiritual, decisions were theirs to make. We never sheltered them from the ugly things in life, but chose instead to explain them. They were never told they were too young to know something, and many times they would ask questions... and we would have to say, "I really don't know." As example, when our eldest was 8, he asked if God was real... and we had to answer... "we don't know."

We feel we prepared them well to face the realities of today's world. And today, they are all happy, successful, adults... living their lives.

Mylab, I respect you very much for your honesty, for the thought you put into every post you write... and though I may come off as harsh at times, I think it comes from living within a world that some here could not survive. I do not mince words, I do not lie or twist the truth to suit some agenda... and I refuse to be some politically correct conformist drone.

And for everyone... I am who I am, and this is who I am. Like me... or don't. Either way is fine with me.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Just a question, Jodik. You are our resident dog expert here on HT. What is your opinion of standard Dachshunds ? This guy I have would stand up to ANY dog regardless of it's size. Is that typical for the breed or does it go back to his former life and the people who put him in a kill shelter because they had too many dogs. I suspect he was a stud in backyard breeding because he has perfect extra long form. He was in good shape though when we adopted him. Also what about Boston Terriers? I have one who
is 1/2 and he would chase balls till he dropped dead or you did which ever came first. He is totally ball obsessed..any ball, small, medium or large. Just curious, because I respect your knowledge.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

jodik, I've been having issues with this 'puter, that's the only reason DH volunteered to bring up the old one. I honestly didn't remember bookmarking your site until I booted up the old one. Again, some nice jewelry!

Perhaps in the future we should stick to discussing jewelry design - I just know we'd find common ground on that subject, lol

epi, give it a rest.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

The Doxie was actually bred for a purpose... he was a go-to-ground dog. And it's not uncommon for a Doxie that is assertive to display dog aggression. This can also be seen in breeds such as Treeing Walker Coonhounds, and quite a few more.

There is actually a very reputable breeder in our area who has some dogs so assertive that they must be hunted alone. They think they're 10 feet tall and walk on water!

The Boston shows a high amount of prey drive, which is not uncharacteristic of the breed. He lives for the chase of the ball... many breeds are high in prey drive. He's got you trained to throw that ball every time he brings it!

And I can already guess... when you take the ball and put it away, somewhere he can't reach, he will repeatedly jump, not forgetting where it is.

The Pekinese is another breed that thinks it's much larger than it actually is. It will go up against much larger dogs... the Pekinese can even be very nasty toward humans, depending on the bloodline and other variables.



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RE:my dogs

Boy, you sure nailed my guys. The Doxie has run up to Mastiffs or Great Danes and barked in their face. The other day he saw his first horse and barked at him and tried to chase him. He doesn't bite ,but wants nothing to intrude in his personal circle. I know they were bred to hunt for badgers, but he doesn't dig, fortunately. However he wraps himself in his blanket like a mummy.

The Boston is very smart. At the doggie park the other day be brought me this disgusting looking ball to throw. I told him to take it to daddy to throw. He whipped his head around, spotted "daddy' way down the park and raced to him . If we ignore him at the park, he finds another human standing and drops the ball on their shoe. He gets very hyper when balls are involved but otherwise is a sweetheart.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Jodi, I agree it is a gift that only some have. My great- grandfather and grandfather had it. So does my father and one of my sons. He worked with some trainers and behaviorists (who take into consideration a dogs breed and traits) while he was going to school and it is he that started the rescue. None have studied breeding which seems to be the forte of your husband. My DS has a man from Ecuador who lives on site and works with the dogs and potential owners. He has the gift of not only being able to read the dogs but people too and an uncanny ability to assess if a person and dog is a good match. I have learned much from him. The larger, stronger breeds are not adopted until he evaluates them and they show they have the capability to handle the dog and then he works with them and does periodic follow-up with volunteers.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

"Bloodlines mean everything! Especially when you consider the fact that half of every living thing IS its genetic base, and the other half is comprised of environmental issues"


Jodik you are always ranting about "genetics" and breeding and how mixed breeds can't be trusted, how important it is to keep the breeds pure, etc, etc, etc. I believe you said you are bi-racial didn't you? How do the genes count in your case? I would think the fact that you were adopted by loving parents who loved you, disciplined you and taught you values was surely more important than your "genes" and your not being a "pure bred" just as an owners training, care and love of an animal to me is more important then the "genes" you are always pushing. All the majority of pound puppies want is a chance to love and be loved. . You want to do away with mixed breeds and only have the genetically pure dogs because they are more trustworthy, safer, smarter, etc. That's a bunch of crap. Training, discipline and lots of love can overcome most problems that pound puppies have. I personally am Irish, Scottish and Native American. My genetic pool is far from pure, just a plain old mutt, but I never was impressed by blue bloods; I suppose though, since my genes aren't pure I could be expected at any time to let my wild Irish temper flare, cut someone in half with my claymore and then scalp them to finish the job. You "opinion" regarding genetics being repeated over and over is getting boring aside from the fact that it is just that.......your opinion.


Jodik said "One time, when our eldest son was 2, he decided locking 7 pairs of vise grip pliers on his dog's skin would be an interesting thing to do... why, you might ask? Because he was 2, and he was playing with Daddy's tools. The dog just ran around the yard with my son, playing and having fun as they always did. That's discretion. That's how a dog should behave when children are involved. I can't tell you how many times my own AB, Minnie, was involved in WWF wrestling matches in the front yard, with the kids body slamming her, chasing her, trying all sorts of WWF moves... she loved it! The kids were her world... and she'd do anything to keep them safe, and she loved playing with them! That's discretion, that's the temperament we want. "

To use your words, no offense to you, but it sounds like your dogs were better trained, mannered and behaved than your kids. The fact that you say your kid was " built a little over enthusiastic... he's our ADD son, and he was 2 years old" in my opinion is only one more reason to watch him closely and never leave him alone with a pet. I personally would call part of what you described as "discretion" to be better described as abused. One pair of vise grips which was quickly taken off and the child disciplined I could understand.........but seven pair and you explain that your kid was "built a little over enthusiastic"......that's animal abuse. A child who would do something like this should never be left alone with an animal.

Just a side question jodik. You said in another thread "Who could have known that years down the road, beyond that first marriage, three young children who's mother walked out would need me" You said your eldest was two, I'm just wonder what the ages of the other two were. If you took on three babies under two, I have to give you credit for accepting that responsibility. Not many people would/could, including me.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

jodik you are always ranting about "genetics" and breeding and how mixed breeds can't be trusted, how important it is to keep the breeds pure, etc, etc, etc. I believe you said you are bi-racial didn't you? How do the genes count in your case? I would think the fact that you were adopted by loving parents who loved you, disciplined you and taught you values was surely more important than your "genes" and your not being a "pure bred" just as an owners training, care and love of an animal to me is more important then the "genes" you are always pushing. All the majority of pound puppies want is a chance to love and be loved. . You want to do away with mixed breeds and only have the genetically pure dogs because they are more trustworthy, safer, smarter, etc. That's a bunch of crap. Training, discipline and lots of love can overcome most problems that pound puppies have.

You apparently know very little about dogs. Dogs are not little people in furry suits. They are animals. The fact that humans try to treat them like little people causes huge problems. Dogs don't think. Therefore you cannot reason with a dog. You can train a dog. You can work with a dog to make him well balanced by exerting strong leadership over him and setting boundaries. But to compare the way a dog is trained to the way humans train children is preposterous.

Genetics really do mean something in a dog because, unlike people, dogs are bred to maximize the strong points of any particular breed. Unless you are a member of the third reich, most people do not worry about genetics when they fall in love and decide to mate.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

"Unless you are a member of the third reich, most people do not worry about genetics when they fall in love and decide to mate."

I don't think you have to be a member of the third reich to worry about genetics in a marriage. I know people who have worried about medical problems being passed on to their children. Then you hear of children whose parents are drug addicts or alcoholics. That too involves genes as the weakness can be passed on through them. I wasn't however " comparing the way a dog is trained to the way humans train children". The point I was trying to get across is that there are more "mutts" out there that are great dogs than that are problem dogs of a mixed heritage. Pure breeding and genetics isn't the only way to have a wonderful pet regardless to what jodik says.

1. You apparently know very little about dogs.

You have no idea what I know about dogs. Unlike some, I don't have the need to constantly boast about any of my accomplishments in life. My life is not open to the entire world and what I know or don't know about dogs or anything else is really none of your business or the business of anyone else unless I wish to share it. Since you seem to know though "that I know very little about dogs" I will say that you are totally wrong in that assumption. I have trained animals for years, am totally confident in my knowledge of dogs and would put it up against yours any day.

2. Dogs are not little people in furry suits.

Well Duh !!!!!!!!! You don't say. Now that's a real eye-opener. With statements like that maybe I was wrong and you are more knowledgeable about dogs than I am.

3. You can work with a dog to make him well balanced by exerting strong leadership over him and setting boundaries. But to compare the way a dog is trained to the way humans train children is preposterous.

And I posted that where?? My statement was "Training, discipline and lots of love can overcome most problems that pound puppies have. " A dog does not have to be pure bred to have intelligence, loyalty and love. What I get from jodiks post is that you are fortunate if you get a good, intelligent, loyal, loving "mixed breed " or a supposedly "pure breed" whose genetics aren't up to the breeds standards. I'll repeat again, that's a bunch of crap and there are hundreds of thousands of animal lovers/owners in the US who would agree with me.

"Genetics really do mean something in a dog because, unlike people, dogs are bred to maximize the strong points of any particular breed."

Yes, genetics mean something if you are trying to bring out certain traits in a breed but the fact that a dog has not been bred to certain standards in no way prevents them from being an outstanding, incredible and awesome pet.


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Lady_Brat... people are not selectively bred for a specific task. Those programs ended when the slaves were freed.

A Hamster can be an "outstanding, incredible and awesome pet"... or, it can give birth, eat all its babies and horrify your children while they're watching. So what?

Many dogs are taken to shelters because the owners can no longer afford the medications to keep them alive... and some are taken because the owner can no longer put up with the smell of urine and fecal matter in a 400 crate where the pup has lived the majority of its life. Some dogs are taken to shelters because they become way more than the owner ever anticipated. There are endless reasons why dogs end up in shelters, and they're not all legitimate. With this type of extreme mental abuse and cruelty, it is hard to overcome every issue with a few training sessions and some love.

I'm not saying it's impossible to find a good dog at a shelter... I'm saying it's hard to find a truly good anywhere these days! But your odds of picking a truly great dog from what's available at a local shelter are slim.

The most ridiculous statement ever uttered is "there are no bad dogs, just bad owners." That's like saying "there are no bad humans, just bad environments." The human race comes up with some real winners...

That 2 year old little boy with ADD grew up with dogs, is now 27, and still has dogs. He also has a wife and 2 fantastic children.

Should we have locked him in a crate every moment we couldn't stand there and hold his hand? Would that make you feel we were better parents?

His father, my husband, is more severely ADD than he ever was... and he was raised with a huge yard of dogs, went on to become one of the better known breeders in the world of rare breeds, and we still have dogs... even though we've retired from breeding.

Dogs are not a hobby here... they are a passion... an inherited passion passed down from father to son, and on and on.

Your posts already tell me what you know about dogs, Lady_Brat. There's no need for you to share further. I know plenty about shelters and rescues, first hand experience, and through the trainers we worked with.

As far as your challenge to Jerzee, my husband would love to accept it on her behalf. Please bring a multi-functional dog, as we will not be stopping at mere obedience. That way, we can truly evaluate your training skills. If you're serious about it, let us know. My husband would be happy to set up the event.

What you call boasting, I call sharing... and you are under no obligation to read or respond to my posts should you choose not to. I choose to share certain parts of my life because many of my personal experiences fit the subjects we discuss or debate. As I stated earlier, I'm open, honest, knowledgeable in a few areas, and very opinionated. That's who I am.

I don't believe in creating designer dogs meant to ride around in matching Prada bags. And that's half of what's wrong with our world today... everyone wants to make a buck at the expense of our planet and its inhabitants. Not everything can or should be "saved"... it's not practical.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I don't think you have to be a member of the third reich to worry about genetics in a marriage.

Nota bene: I said "MOST PEOPLE".

Yes, genetics mean something if you are trying to bring out certain traits in a breed but the fact that a dog has not been bred to certain standards in no way prevents them from being an outstanding, incredible and awesome pet.

NO ONE said that mixed breeds don't make good pets. I have had plenty of mixed breed dogs myself.

And I posted that where??

"I believe you said you are bi-racial didn't you? How do the genes count in your case? I would think the fact that you were adopted by loving parents who loved you, disciplined you and taught you values was surely more important than your "genes" and your not being a "pure bred" just as an owners training, care and love of an animal to me is more important then the "genes" you are always pushing."

LB, please don't say: "you don't know anything about me" and then in the next breath say: "My life is not open to the entire world and what I know or don't know about dogs or anything else is really none of your business or the business of anyone else unless I wish to share it." How does that make your knowledge of dogs shine through?


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All the majority of pound puppies want is a chance to love and be loved.

I just wanted to add something here that and I can't say it better than the article that I have linked below.

I hear over and over again from people talking about their dogs, including photo bio submissions getting sent into the site of people's pets, rescue applications from people looking for homes for dogs they rescued, and dogs they themselves are giving up, "This dog just needs love and attention", "The dog just wants to be loved." The interpretation of a dogs wants and needs being only love, food, toys and shelter makes me sad. It is the reason there are so many homeless dogs out there. Don't get me wrong, dogs enjoy love and affection, but it is not what makes them happy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dogs and Love


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I think it's likely that if you acquire a very young pup and raise it lovingly, you will have a good dog. When you adopt a grown dog you have no idea what you are bringing home. Asking for trouble.

Harsh but true. IMHO. Pure bred or not.

If you're one of those rare and special people with an abundance of patience and faith, maybe you can rehabilitate a dog with troubles, but I wouldn't try it with young children in the house.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I'm not one of those rare and special people , but I rescued a three year old Dachshund from a kill shelter. Actually a group rescued him and others and I got him from them. I had no idea what I was getting, but I could give him back in a month if it didn't work out. I have never ever given an animal away in my life and most of them have been rescues. I am not a dog person. My dogs have never been to class or had training. Actually my first love is cats. I adore them. But this Doxie has never peed , pooped, or chewed anything in the house in the almost two years we have had him. He still can be "barky" around bigger dogs because he has a Napoleonic complex, but he loves people. I have never had an incident involving him, and I know nothing about dog training. I taught him to sit and that's about it. The key to having happy well behaved pets is consistency and routine. They know every minute of the day what's next. About 4 PM, they sit by the door for their hour long walk. I swear they even know the days of the week. Love, routine, and consistency is what makes a good pet, and I have never had a mean pet..all 15 cats and 4 dogs.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Lady Brat, your post makes alot of sense and you raise some very good points. Bragging indeed.

The irony of the whole situation is ANY fringe group can garner support and recognition, it's not necessarily indicative of success. 'Success' in a small bubble is not something I would gloat too loudly about.

The overwhelming majority of ethical people involved with and for dogs would not consider jodik's past methods, operations and means to an end that most don't care about, successful or anything other than a fringe group on a mission.

And Lily, the info that jodik provided you regarding doxies and BTs can be found with a quick google. I'm not impressed.

Try picking your doxie up (like a baby) and holding him belly up. Does he squirm or lay there like a latka? The barking at bigger dogs is not unusual at all.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

paulines: You just can't help yourself. You must be quivering with delight and anticipation that you have another "Bash Jodi" thread to participate in.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Oh please JZ, I refuse to participate in a one sided discussion. She puts her thoughts out there, as an 'expert' I might add and I refute them - after looking up the definition of refute, go shake your finger at someone else.

And by the way, following me around for the sole purpose of scolding me, is precisely what you're accusing me of doing...shall I start the name calling?


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RE: Further

If and when I become interested on your or anyone elses opinions of my posting habits, I'll let you know. Until then, worry more about the issues (because there are some serious implications here if you didn't care to notice)discussed here and less about the fact that I may offend someone's opinion. Ta Ta.


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Your post was reinforcement of LB's post putting jodi down. That was it's purpose. You contributed nothing to further the conversation. I am not the only person who has called you out on your nasty little habit.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

For anyone who knows anything about shelters. The dogs that are put up for adoption are evaluated for aggression, social skills, etc. before being placed for adoption. They are tested for food aggression, their ability to get along with other animals and how well they socialize with people. Not to say it will never happen, but highly unlikely that a shelter dog will be anything but a wonderful companion. And the fact that most people who adopt from a shelter generally love animals and the animals will be well treated and "loved", will make a big difference in the way the animal responds. Lady Brat, you are correct.


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No one is saying you cannot get good dogs from shelters. My DH and I are involved in a rescue group and about five months ago were asked to go to the pound to break a dog out and foster it.

Well, we fell in love with Gin-ji immediately and decided to adopt her after about five minutes.

That being said, she is not without issues which perhaps some people might find problematic. We are working with her to overcome some of these issues, but it's a long haul. Not everyone has the patience or desire to do spend time exercising, training and providing boundaries. I like the challenge but not everyone does.


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///RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Which proves the point jz. Dogs that aren't ready for adoption, that have issues, are usually fostered before they are put up for adoption, to see if these issues can be resolved.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Dogs that aren't ready for adoption, that have issues, are usually fostered before they are put up for adoption, to see if these issues can be resolved.

"Anyone that knows anything" about shelters knows there aren't nearly enough foster homes to help and many shelters don't use foster homes for a variety of reasons; they aren't available, legal reasons etc., and when they do evaluating or training dogs is not their role. It is simply to house the dogs so they are not euthanized and there is no more room at the shelter. One is very lucky when they find a foster home, that besides caring for the dogs, they are also knowledgeable about dog behaviors and how to evaluate and correct them.

Like dogs from breeders etc. shelter dogs come in all flavors - good, bad, agressive, passive etc. Agressive dogs can be trained as can fearful dogs and passive dogs can get aggressive depending on the circumstances. It is up to the owners and the work they put in to the dog no matter where they originate from.


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The best dog we've ever had, and the dog that everyone has fallen in love with that comes to visit, is a little Snorkie I got from the pound 6 1/6 years ago. I am allergic to many dogs, particularly short haired, and knew that the schnauzer mix might work for me. We visited and he weighed 6 pound, at approximately 1-2 years of age. He was pitiful, I think I've posted it turned out the day we got him I already had made a vet appointment the day after next. He immediately began throwing up what little he ate and was shaky on his feet, although we were told he was found "starving" I found another vet that would take him right away and it turned out he had parvo. Almost three weeks later, after I brought him boiled chicken and rice every other day, but nothing working and lots of fluids, treatment and money, the vet sent a tech on an all day trip to another state to pick up a nutrient used for cancer patients and brought it back and he finally turned around. I swear that dog is grateful for us not abandoning him and is the best little dog. He minds me very well, especially since it's just me now and I'm more consistent and firm with him than my daughters or husband. He's very affectionate and devoted and fun, and a watch dog too.

I can't imagine enjoying any trained pure bred anymore--and my family had those too--a cocker spaniel and a cairn terrier, and I grew up with pure bred large dogs. This little Snorkie, with his long, thin yorkie legs, little cute yorkie face, and awkard schnauzer body and tail, is a blessing in my life, as I am in his life.

I don't care if he is not the kind of dog I can brag about when I take him on a leash because I don't define myself by my dog.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Dogs that aren't ready for adoption, that have issues, are usually fostered before they are put up for adoption, to see if these issues can be resolved.

You just keep thinking that but it is so NOT TRUE! The HSUS estimates that animal shelters care for 6-8 million dogs and cats every year in the United States, of whom approximately 3-4 million are euthanized. Rescue groups try to do what they can but there are not enough foster homes to care for all the good dogs that need help.

demi, your doggie sounds adorable. However, I do have a huge problem with "Designer Dogs". People actually breeding dogs from different breeds to produce a new breed and charging exorbitant amounts of money (in the thousands) for a mutt. One of my rescues is supposedly a Corgi but I can see a lot of Jack Russell in him. I know for sure that people were breeding Corgis and JRs and producing what is known as Co-Jacks.

I am also convinced my little guy came from a puppy mill. Someone probably paid a pet store a lot for this little Co-Jack and then realized he was too much to handle. When we got him five years ago, he was still intact which makes me believe that he may have been a part of a breeding pair. He is still not reliably house trained (he sometimes has accidents)r, he barks at other dogs on our walks, and is an obsessive licker. Sometimes I will wake up in the middle of the night and he will have his eyes open just looking around so a bit of an insomniac.

Mrsk, how many years would a shelter have to "foster" a dog to break him of these habits? They just don't have the space.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

jz, I must not be making myself clear. I haven't said that dogs aren't humanely euthanized. I'm saying that the dogs that are available for adoption go through a process before being placed for adoption. And that hopefully dogs who have minor issues will be fostered until they can be adopted. Some dogs will never reach that stage, and it would be cruel not only to a family who is looking to adopt, but also to the animal, to turn an agressive dog or a dog with social issues over to an unsuspecting family. I have my second rescue dog, a full blooded dachshund from a puppy mill, and a rescue cat. Both of which are the sweetest tempered and loving kids ever.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I have not read all the 115 of the post but I am just weighing in with an opinion....

I feel the station was responsible for what happened. They had a responsibility to protect their employee the Anchor Woman. It comes under workplace safety.

That said....I have a Mastiff and know the temperament, she is affectionate but protective. I have had dogs all my life from childhood and through adulthood. I have had mutts from the pound, collies, german shepard etc. All have never bite anyone. But I came close to having one of my dogs bite a neighbor's son. He would throw apples from his apple tree at my dog. I did not know this was happening, I saw the apples in the yard but thought they had dropped from their tree.

My dog did not bark was tied up in his yard. I happened to go out one day and got hit in head with a apple then I realized what was happening. When I tried to take the dog in the dog dragged me half way up the driveway and got away to go after the boy. The dog took the punishment but when he saw the apple hit me that was the straw that said to the dog protection time. The boy ran in the house laughing if the dog had bite him I bet his parents would have said it was my fault. No problem I had a bump on my head and a headache.

I sit outside with my Mastiff and kids walking past my house will bark at the dog I have seen them pick up a rock and see I am sitting there and put the rock down.

I said all that to say. Why do people think if a dog bites it is wrong? But it is ok for their little darlings to hurt a animal and that animals is suppose to have no feelings.

I want people to teach their children to have feelings for every living creature. By teaching your children to respect animals as having feeling you will save yourself from seeing your child hurt. If you pick up a rock or anything else and hit a person they are going to react so will a animal. Teach your children that fact.


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I agree children should not be allowed to tease or behave aggressively towards dogs. I know nothing about you and your dogs, marquest, so my comments here are not about you/them. I just want to point out that I see dogs behaving aggressively in their fenced in back yards when anybody casually passes by, whether the passerby notices the dogs or ignores them, the dogs are rather frightening in their growling and jumping and barking and lunging. I've worried more than once whether that fence was going to hold in that dog. No one is teasing the dog or behaving aggressively towards the dog--the dog is acting that way on his/her own. I don't appreciate it at all when the dog-owner tells me I have to understand--the dog is just being protective of his property. Well, he is scaring the h3ll out of me!!!!! And I'm on public property and have every right to walk there without being frightened by aggressive dogs.

Or my other favorite (NOT) is the dog-owner demanding what I did to make his dog go crazy like that. Nothing--I just walked by on public property and didn't look at the dog (I was trying to pretend he wasn't there!). The dog still acted like he was defending the Alamo! What the owner often doesn't realize is how badly his dog behaves when he is not around. And then the dog-owner is so surprised and offended if he happens to show up when the dog is acting that way, and he blames the passerby for causing the dog to misbehave.

The simple fact is that some people believe their dog can do no wrong, so if there is an "incident," it must be the human being victimized by the dog who caused the dog to do it.

No offense intended to those of you who have well-mannered dogs. We always had a dog when I was growing up and NEVER had incidents with them or people complaining our dogs were too noisy or too aggressive or any of the things that drive non-dog-owners nuts. The simple truth is that if your dog gets involved periodically in "incidents," it probably means that that dog does not belong in a populated city environment which inevitably involves people having to interact regularly with other people (and their dogs).

People come first--no matter how much you care for your dog. It is that simple. No constitutional rights for dogs--just persons.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I must not be making myself clear. I haven't said that dogs aren't humanely euthanized. I'm saying that the dogs that are available for adoption go through a process before being placed for adoption. And that hopefully dogs who have minor issues will be fostered until they can be adopted.

You are making yourself clear but your information is erroneous. The majority of dogs in shelters are never fostered in private homes. It is a very small percentage that are and it is not to evaluate them or train them, it is simply to allow shelters to take in more dogs. Fosters are responsible for walking and feeding these dogs, nothing more.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Marquest, I personally believe that of course a dog can be egged on to defend himself - it's what animals do unless hard training NOT to do so has been accomplished. I can't STAND to see kids deliberately agitate a dog or throw things to hit a dog, it drives me just nuts and I would hope that if a kid knowingly or unknowingly did so, the parent would immediately react to it in a constructive way - that can be the make up of a kid and can be corrected if the parent goes into react mode. The kid must understand how his actions torture the dog physically or emotionally or both. If he still does it, it's time to get worried about the kid, that is certainly not a character trait to ignore.

But, if the dog bites, it's on the owner to cover all damages. When a person takes in a dog, he takes in the responsiblity for the dog - the good and the bad. If the dog defends himself against a human by biting, then the owner must pay for damages and assume with great hope that if it was due to torturing the dog, that a lesson was learned at the same time - that dogs do what dogs do under certain circumstances. But the owner still has to pay up - but not for the owner taking in the animal, there would be no bite. That can be a hard thing to swallow when the dog was really pushed into it (see the apple story) but that is how pet ownership works.

I think the only time the dog is not responsible for biting to defend itself is if another unleashed dog attacks and bits the leashed dog first. The leash thing is really important if you live in a district which has a leash law - which I think every single district should insist upon.

Kate, I completely agree with you - I can't stand that either - there is a dog around the corner from us on another block which has a dog that is deadly quiet (don't even know one is there) until you are about halfway across the fenced property line when walking along the sidewalk and the dog suddenly goes beserk, running at the fence and barking hysterically. Scares the p out of everybody, I can't stand that.

The owner of that dog should bring the dog into the house and only let him out when the owner is right there while the dog eliminates, if that is the behavior the dog is going to do no matter what.

If they WANT a dog to react that way to strangers, then they must cope with the dog inside the house all the time and cope with handling the dog every time a stranger knocks on the door - NOT strangers cope with the dog.

When those owners ask you what YOU did, well what a pile of dog poop. Pushing their responsiblity to control the dog's behavior on you instead of dealing with the dog themselves. That way they don't have to do a thing.

They already KNOW what you did - you walked on the sidewalk.

You should find out how to make a legal complaint about that dog, I'm betting there is some sort of statute which allows that you enoy the use of public property intended for that use without being frightened or noised out by a dog, that particular dog belongs under the owner's control at all times, even if it's in a fenced yard. It is up to the owner of dogs that they don't bother those aroud them. If they don't want to do that, then don't get a dog.

There was a beautiful townhouse in a gorgeous neighborhood which we rented when we first got to town, we lived there for a year while we learned the town to know where in it we wanted to live and what neighborhoods we preferred. We go for long walks together with our dog leashed frequently when the weather is nice - there was a dog that used to really bother us (come close, barking) but because it was not leashed we could never notify the owner of the dogs behavior.

We ended up buying some pepper spray to be sure that if the dog ever attacked we would have something to defend ourselves with (we think it was more our own dog the strange dog had issues with) but right after we bought the pepper spray, we never saw the dog again.

I would have so hated to use the pepper spray on that dog, it was only following it's instincts instead of being under it's owner's control, but a dog - good dog or poorly trained dog - can do some major damage with the weapon of it's teeth, one must protect themselves if possible.

I wouldn't ever pepper spray a dog that was behind the fence barking hysterically at me everytime I walked on the sidewalk but I might spray the stupid owner who asked me what I did to bother his dog.

Joking, but what a manipulative "my fault is really more your fault" question to ask you!


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

mrsk:

I think you are confusing the rescue groups that take dogs from dog pounds (what we are calling "shelters" - what a misnomer) for fostering and the shelters themselves which usually do not foster (at least in my region). There are different kinds of shelters too - some are actually no kill shelters so I think it can be confusing.

Where I live, the people who are fostering the dogs are either from breed rescue or other animal welfare organizations. They are not affiliated with the shelters although they do get calls from the shelters when they find a really "good" or a dog of a particular breed.

Unfortunately, the dog pound is the dog pound and many good dogs don't make it out.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, the problem I described with the rock... this kid had to walk up to my hedges and look down 100' from the road to see my dog. I live in a suburban neighborhood but my property is 4 acres. It takes effort to get close to see me and my dog.

I have never had a dog that barked but have walked by and had dogs bark from behind a fence. I do not see a problem with that if they are on their property. The dog owner cannot be responsible for the fear of people outside that property of what they think can happen. If the dog did not harm you then you are responsible for your fear.

Maybe people could come to projecting that human's have a right to respect that animals have feelings. All I am trying to get people to realize that they can save everyone heartache if they teach their children to respect animals and that their little darlings are not always not at fault for their actions. Actions have consequences.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air/

mylab: Do you know if a person can sit on his porch with a shotgun across his knee (assuming he has all the correct permits) and not ever shoot the gun but be so threatening in his demeanor that you wouldn't want to walk by his house? Would you be able to call the police and make a complaint even though the guy never lifted the gun to point at you? To me this would fall in the same category as a barking dog on private property. I am not sure you have recourse but I really don't know.


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Train your kids!!!!!!!

elvis "But your odds of picking a truly great dog from what's available at a local shelter are slim."


Elvis, exactly how many dogs have you adopted from a shelter? Granted there are some with problems that can't be solved but most can. Some may take more work and patience than others and many people don't know how or aren't willing to put forth the effort thus the failures. As for bringing a strange dog in around children without first taking certain precautions, common sense tells you not to do that.

jodik said "Should we have locked him in a crate every moment we couldn't stand there and hold his hand? Would that make you feel we were better parents? "


jodik, as I stated in my previous post, if you took on three children under the age of two, since you stated that the two year old was the eldest, I have to admire you for being willing to take on that responsibility. That took a lot of nerve. As to what kind of parent you were or how they turned out I have no idea as I don't know your children. From your many posts though I have picked up on what kind of animal owner/trainer/breeder you are and I would never want a dog bred or trained by you.


jodik said "Your posts already tell me what you know about dogs, Lady_Brat. There's no need for you to share further. As far as your challenge to Jerzee, my husband would love to accept it on her behalf. "


You know jodik, after reading your many posts regarding breeding and training dogs I have no desire to see either you or your husband in action if he is of the same mindset as you when it comes to handling dogs. You can boast all you want and make unnamed references to all the great breeders and trainers you wish but it doesn't change my opinion concerning your attitude, veracity or techniques in respect to animals.


jg said "How does that make your knowledge of dogs shine through?"


Why does my knowledge of dogs need to "shine" through jg? My family and friends know my capabilities. I don't train animals for money even as much as I love doing it. I have no need to boast, brag, reference being associated with great breeders and trainers or to advertise my accomplishments. I couldn't care less what you think you know about my abilities, which is nada, but when someone post something contrary to my standards I am going to speak up. As stated in the previous paragraphs I don't like what I've read about jodik's techniques and methods of breeding and training and definitely don't agree with the majority of her ideas.


JG said "Don't get me wrong, dogs enjoy love and affection, but it is not what makes them happy."


Well maybe you should inform my two 125 pound shepherds or my 85 pound lab/chow that love and affection doesn't make them happy. Don't think your philosophy would impress them much.

jg's article said "Dogs are pack animals that have an instinct to live in a structured environment with order and rules. They want more than love, they do not crave love, they crave leadership and they need to know the rules and their boundaries in order to be secure with their surroundings"


Gotta disagree. Yes dogs need leadership and rules but every dog I've ever owned craved love and affection and believe me I am the Alpha at my house. When I come home from work there's a shoving match to see who can get to Mom first for her loves. As far as the leadership, rules and boundaries, that is included without saying in the training. Just because you read something on the internet "doesn't make it so".


Marquest said "I said all that to say. Why do people think if a dog bites it is wrong? But it is ok for their little darlings to hurt a animal and that animals is suppose to have no feelings. "

THANK YOU MARQUEST. Yes, an owner is responsible for it's dog but what about the parents of these rotten kids who love to torment and tease dogs and if by chance the kid gets to close to the dog and gets bit the parents are ready to kill the dog. I've thought about having a T-shirt made up reading, "I've trained my dogs, please do the same with your Kids"

dublin said "No one is teasing the dog or behaving aggressively towards the dog--the dog is acting that way on his/her own. I don't appreciate it at all when the dog-owner tells me I have to understand--the dog is just being protective of his property."

And the dogs are on their own "private" property dublin. My dogs are only in my yard when I am home and when they are out my door is always open so they can come in when they wish. I never had a problem with them charging the fence or acting agressive (my house/fence is way back (50 ft or so) from the road) until a new family moved in down the street. I caught the kids stopping at the one place the dogs could see them through the fence and barking at the dogs, dancing around acting stupid making loud noises etc. They would ride their bikes down the road and when they came to the area where the dogs could see them they would start with the noises. I came home one day with my drapes torn down and couldn't figure out why. One day my parents came to visit and had arrived before I got home. They were sitting in their vehicle when these little brats came by, stopped in front of my window and started yelling for the dogs. Now I have to keep my front shutters closed because I don't want the little brats to cause the dogs to come through the window and hurt them. When I am home all I have to do is say "quiet" and they instantly ignore the little cretins but when I'm not there and the cretins are right at the window teasing them what can you expect. I don't appreciate it when people or their brats antagonize my dogs whether they are on the public road or not. It's a two way street just as Marquest explained about the brat throwing the apples. But if the kid should get to close and get bit it is all the owners fault right. NOT


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I think enough complaints to the police would help sort that question out.

And a visit to an attorney if it was important enough - a barking dog which harrasses can be against city ordinances. It would take time, work and phone calls but a person could find out if there were steps which could be taken, and if there were, it would still probably take time and vigilance about keeping up with the matter.

For the fence barker, I woudl probably take a walk in a different section (which I actually did in my case) - which is the problem with the dog owner - they didn't control their dog enough that it wasn't a problem to those around them, a real problem I have with some irresponsible pet owners.

It's not up to the other people around a pet to deal with it, it's the responsiblity of the owner to see to it that nobody but themselves has to deal with the pet. If one doesn't want to have to have that constant responsiblity, then don't get a pet because nobody is responsible for the outcome it's behavior but them.

I know that this isn't a popular idea with pet owners but it's one I really believe to be the responsible one and when a legal issue comes up, it's the side that the law generally falls to. An owner is responsible for their pet's behavior.

But, sometimes all it might take is talking with the owner in an appropriate way about the problem the pet (or kid for that matter) is presenting, or a letter to the owner with polite words to resolve the situation. Before I took any actions beyond the owner, I would always send a certified, return receipt letter to the owner and keep a copy of it myself.

Luckily, I have never had a problem with any pet (or neighbor for that matter!) except for that unknown unleashed dog I talked about and even that didn't last very long. I've been so incredibly lucky in that regard and I know it, I've heard real horror stories about pets and neighbors in neighborhoods.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Marquest and Lady Brat,
Please note the opening words of my above post:

I agree children should not be allowed to tease or behave aggressively towards dogs. I know nothing about you and your dogs, marquest, so my comments here are not about you/them.

I would have added your name, Lady, if I had known you would also get outraged at me for supporting kids heckling and teasing and behaving outrageously towards dogs. However, I am puzzled. What part of "I agree children should not be allowed to tease or behave aggressively towards dogs" do you not understand?

And Marquest, when I explicitly say "I know nothing about you and your dogs, marquest, so my comments here are not about you/them," what part of that statement do you not understand?

I say I'm NOT talking about you folks, and you start snarling at me. Reminds me how some of those dogs I object to also behave.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

There's a decided theme going on here when it comes to all the "rescue" and "shelter" talk. All we hear about are the cute, fuzzy, loving animals that are eventually adopted out, ending with warm, fuzzy stories.

What we AREN'T hearing about are all the dogs that are given a final evaluation, which is... best case scenario: euthanization required. Or the no-kill shelters that send their failures off to kill shelters.

What sticks in my mind the most is a time when my husband was judging a working dog show, and was approached by an owner who asked his opinion on shelters. I was surprised at his answer. He said, "I am truly amazed at the amount of money people will spend to save a deformed, sickly dog... but will allow millions of children, some in our own country, to die of starvation, clearly putting the lives of animals above those of their own kind." And he just shook his head as the owner walked away looking dumbfounded.

Anyone can use Google... my husband prefers to use hands on experience and learned knowledge so as not to give false information. As most of us know, the internet is not exactly vetted for accurate information, and for every story of truth, there are 6 more of fallacy.

Fact number 1: no canine on the planet has the ability to kill a lion, and yet according to Google, there are several breeds claiming this ability. Should you ever have an opportunity to see a dog go up against a lion, you will see the dog disemboweled and dead in less than a minute.

Lily... pay no mind to my fan club... your Doxie and Boston exhibit normal traits characteristic of their respective breeds.

Epi, a trainer friend of ours took a weak nerved dog that would literally bite out of fear, not aggression... and after two years of intense training put a Sch. Title on the dog. On the field, the dog appears confident, hardcore, and a prime example of what the dog should be. However, when the dog is off the field in a normal social situation, he is still a bag of nerves having no work to concentrate on. There are many dogs trialed this way. So, in some cases, the training is more of a band aid than a fix or a cure. And if the dog isn't worked on a consistent schedule, it can easily fall apart.

The amount of truly qualified trainers that volunteer at shelters is a very small percent. Anyone who reads 3 or 4 books and proclaims themselves a trainer, will be given the training evaluation job at the local shelter, thus another "career" is begun. There are very few states or laws mandating any schooling for trainers, and anyone can proclaim the title. It's way too loosely regulated, containing very little, if any, intelligent legislation.

We have found most true dog trainers either began as kennel boys doing cleanup and feed... or are born into a family business, and go through the same things... cleanup, feed, etc... and THEN they apprentice under Dad or the head trainer for about 5-15 years before claiming the title of true canine trainer.

If you see on a trainer's resume where he apprenticed under a well known trainer, a quick phone call will give you all the information you need.

What you've said so far is correct, Epi... and the more you speak about training the more my respect for your knowledge increases. Everything you've said so far is true.

I'm pretty decent when it comes to obedience training, but that's really nothing given the larger picture. Plus, I've always had excellent dogs to put obedience into, so it was really only a matter of repetition, consistency, and wanting to forge that bond between myself and my dog. I gotta tell ya... I really miss my American Bulldog. I love my Olde's... don't get me wrong... but they are decidedly different breeds.

For those that understand the world of canines... truly understand... as Jerzee, Epi, and concentrated few others... it's more than apparent what's wrong within the canine world... just a quick read through this, and other related threads give it all away.

Little people in furry suits, indeed, Jerzee... ;-)


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

mylab: I am guessing the police would come and after assessing the situation most likely say that there's nothing that can be done because the dog is on private property and the owner has every right to have his property protected. I think the only way a person would have recourse is if the barking is incessant and loud and then many places have barking ordinances. But I think the barking would have to be continuous which in this case it isn't.

When I come home from work there's a shoving match to see who can get to Mom first for her loves. This is behavior that I would try to correct. Your dogs should be calm and submissive when you come home until you tell them it's okay to show affection. Even then, jumping on a person is NOT a good thing to encourage.

Just because you read something on the internet "doesn't make it so".

Just as you continue to say that I know nothing about you, you know nothing about me.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I'm very selective on who I will allow to interact with my dogs. Neither has the slightest inkling of biting but they like to put their feet up on you so you can pet them. Consequently they can push a person over...even an adult.

Otherwise, they'd probably lick you to death. I let them out on the cul-de-sac to stretch their legs a couple of times during the day. If someone comes out or I see a car coming down the hill, I call them over and close the gate.

People want to pet my bulldogs all the time. People I know well and the dogs know well...no problems. Strangers, I make some sort of polite excuse...like, they'll rip your arms off.

In short, I protect my dogs from people more than the other way around. But I especially protect my dogs from kids.

-Ron-


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

dublinbay, I am sorry if you thought I was snarling at you that was not my intention.

What I was saying is I do think you felt that the dog owner was less than correct to have a dog that bark and you felt fear. Something else a dog can detect and they will bark when they smell fear. Dogs cannot talk so they bark, every bark is not an aggressive attempt of harm to you. Would you be upset if you walk by and a human was at the fence saying hello?

I was just offering another side of dogs do wrong "perception" and what people do to make dogs do wrong. I want parents to talk to their children and do not spread their fear or belief that they can do what they want because they are human.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Paulines...Although I have no a clue what a latka is, I did pick up the Doxie and cradled him(all 26 pounds) like a baby on his back, and he just laid there. What does this mean?

As for the barking situation. What to do? And I'll ask Jodik again. Although I don't live in a crime ridden area, I guess there are occasional break ins. I want my dog to bark when anyone opens our picket fence gate and boy, they do. Even when my kids came last week, they were little maniacs at the door until they saw who it was. I want that. But I was just in the yard with the Boston who has the run of the fenced 1/2 acre when I'm out. The Doxie was tethered on the porch because he is an escape artist. Anyway, every time a person walks down our sidewalks(corner lot) Ziggy barks and follows them down one side and up the front till they disappear. How does one train a dog it's okay to bark when he hears something or sees a person who doesn't belong, and not to when a person is just taking a walk?


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My dogs aren't slaves

This is behavior that I would try to correct. Your dogs should be calm and submissive when you come home until you tell them it's okay to show affection. Even then, jumping on a person is NOT a good thing to encourage."

No, my dogs act exactly as I like them to when I come home. Who said anything about jumping. My dogs don't "jump" on me or anyone else. You said "until I tell them it's OK to show affection". just how often do you allow your dog to show you affection. Do they have to have permission anytime they want to walk up and nudge your hand or lay their heads in your lap. I love having my dogs show affection and they have many ways of doing it. A nudge, laying their head in my lap, bringing a toy for me to throw or tug, putting a paw on my knee when I ask them who they love and many more and I don't expect them to wait for permission from me for any of that.

What exactly do you mean by submissive. If you are talking about my dogs humbly slinking up to me waiting for me to give permission to come within a certain distance you are more than welcome to your "submissive" behavior. You have your dogs greet you in a "submissive" manner. I am more than satisfied with the exhuberant greeting I get from mine. mine. By exhuberant I mean just what I said; crowding each other to try to get to me first not roughly pushing me or jumping on me and that behavior is accepted and enjoyed by me. When I say we're going to "work" they know the routine and snap to attention. When I realease them from "work" they know what that means. Now if you want a "submissive" dog, one who has to get permission before it can greet you or follow God only knows what other rules you have set for them, that is your business. I am perfectly satisfied with my boys, my pound puppies, my dogs who crave affection and love, not one would meet the breeds "standards" and all of which are well trained, well behaved and protective of their Mom.


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My Two Cents

I don't know what jodi would do, but here's what I would do with the doxie.

When he is at the fence and starts barking, I would gently correct him (you can use a soft choker collar because he probably has a skinny neck and you do not want to hurt him - just pull to get his attention not to hurt him). The correction hopefully will take his attention away from whoever is walking by and turn his attention on you. If you don't want to use the collar, then you can just give him a little "bite" with your hand (like a large soft pinch without hurting him). Remember this is just to get his attention off barking and onto you. I would also reinforce with the word "no". Not loud but firm. Once you have his attention ask him to sit and give him a treat. If he is a good boy, reward him. Do this only when you are outside. It will correct the outside behavior but he will most likely continue to bark in the house. I find that this works when you have dogs which are food focused (like mine). Important: You do not want to give him treats until he stops barking; if you treat him when he's barking he will bark even more because he thinks that's how he's going to get treats! Some people object to the training collar and use just treats but I think that method just takes too long!

However, when the dog is off the field in a normal social situation, he is still a bag of nerves having no work to concentrate on.

Jodi, you should tell your friend to try the thunder shirt. I have been using it on one of my guys and not only does he love wearing it (having it put on is the only thing he will sit for without fidgeting) but it really calms him down on walks. For some reason it really works and I haven't exactly figured out the canine psychology reason yet!


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

lol Lady...my babies greet me too. Boo is a 12 lb mini dachshund and his legs are tops 2" long. So he greets me with nudges with his nose about ankle high. The cat always comes running to the door right along with him, but then she just sits there looking at me, like ho hum, you're home, check my food bowl first. But when my grandson gets home, she follows him around like she was a little fat puppy. He picks her up and she turns into a melted blob of happy cat.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Marquest, I don't want to drag this out, but if you actually read my description--dogs barking insanely, lunging at the fence, growling, trying very hard to jump over the fence, etc.--just because I was calmly walking by on a public walkway--yes, I do think the owner has let those dogs get out of line and yes, they are frightening. I wonder how an 8 year old walking by feels--what do you think? That the owner and his dogs should have control of the neighborhood and everybody else in the neighborhood better go somewhere else because the obnoxious dogs and their owners think the neighborhood was set up for their convenience only?

What's more--9 times out of 10, if you politely tell (or write about) their dogs behavior, those dog owners loudly let you know that they have the nicest dogs in the city and if the dog was misbehaving it was because you, the complainer, were doing something to provoke the dogs. That dog owner will then not speak to you for as long as they live there, but they will go visit all the neighbors telling them how you, the complainer, have abused the dog owner's dogs and caused them to misbehave, and so it drags on miserably.

That may not even remotely describe you and your dogs. Fine. Then I am not talking about you and your dogs--as I stated I was NOT above. I am, however, reporting actual situations that have taken place. In all three cases, the police finally had to come and explain to the outraged dog owner what his responsibilities and limits were as a dog owner. After that, in all three cases, the dogs were (mostly) kept inside and thus not continually barking and growling and lunging at passerbys. The dog owners never forgave me for siccing the police on them however--even if I was right, as the police informed the dog owners.

OK--I'm done. I made my point that there are bad dog owners out there who swear they are great dog owners and that everyone, except their own dogs, is the problem.

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Jodi, we have one dog (huskie mix) that was brought in about 1 1/2 years ago. The dog had fear based problems as well as dog aggression issues. They have been working with the dog and the difference is remarkable. The dog would hide during thunder storms or if he heard a firecracker. This past 4th the dog didn't run or hide and now plays and is housed with the other dogs and can meet a strange dog in the street without a problem. This is only one story. There are others. It takes time and even more so, patience but dogs can be changed - for the good and the bad.

Lily, a Latka is a potato pancake. Paulines used a silly expression hardly used anymore except by old Jewish women. ;)


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I have a rescue cat that is fully aggressive. Had him since he was weeks old. Never had a cat like him before. I KNOW I did not do anything to make him this way. It's his nature. My other rescue was terrified of everything and everyone. I worked with her plenty. Now she wants to be petted. Still doesn't want to be held. Comes racing and greets me at the door. She still pokes her head out from under tables as she approaches to be asked to be petted. It makes me wonder what happened to her before I adopted her? I've had her since she was, we think, about 4. One I can't change with any amount of training. One is completley changed with training. He's a ginger with a lightning bolt nose, and amber eyes. Cute as pie. But mean as a snake to the big calico. Nothing makes him leave her alone when we're gone from the house (or in our rooms with the doors shut). I hear him attacking her in the early morning hours, often. UGH!

Animals are who they are, rescued or bred.


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What about this?

epi, that is interesting info. I have to admit--there is a situation at work I've wondered about many times. A guy shows up regularly with a big trained dog. At first I thought he was blind and the dog was a seeing eye dog. Now I'm beginning to wonder if he is some kind of trainer--except I'm not sure about how the training is going. I've entered the building a number of time exactly when he did and the minute the dog approaches the building door, he backs off in terror. The guy almost has to drag the dog over to the elevator and while waiting for the elevator to come, the big dog cowers in terror behind the man's legs which he is trying to hide behind. Then the man practically drags the dog into the elevator--it is obviously the last place the dog want to go. At that point, I back off and wait for the next round on the elevator. No way I want to be riding in a small elevator with a big terrified dog. I guess the guy is making some kind of progress because I saw them approaching the door to the building the other day and the dog looked reasonably confident and under control, but the minute they got inside the door and headed for the elevator, the dog went into terror mode, cringing and trying to hide. It is just painful to watch. I have no idea what this is all about, but to me, something is very wrong there. Do you (or anyone) have any thoughts on this?

Kate


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Kate, you might be right. He may be trying to break him of his fear.

When I saw DS and his colleagues working with one fearful dog my automatic reaction was to "rescue" the dog and baby it and make them stop. They weren't torturing it just wouldn't let it go hide in a corner like it wanted to. Well, I was shut down and wasn't allowed to baby the dog like I would have done automatically. If it wasn't my son and people I knew I would have been upset but they told me what they were doing. That dog has since been adopted and the dog is great and is not longer fearful. They were right and I could have set them back. We had another dog that was afraid of carpeting. Would not walk on floors with carpets no matter what. It only took a short while and today the dog has no problem. So you may be on to something there but unless you ask you won't know.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

I am a little afraid of elevators myself, lol.

Kate, I just wanted you to know that I agree with you that people should make sure that their dogs are not an annoyance and not disturbing the neighbors as they walk by. You don't want your kids speeding down the street in their cars and you don't want your dogs terrorizing the neighbors. That's the recipe for being a good neighbor :-)

I watched a Cesar Millan episode where a big dog (I think it was a St. Bernard) wouldn't go up the stairs. He was something like two years old and he had never been on the second floor of the house! Cesar just calmly and firmly grabbed onto the dog's lead and made him go up the stairs by absolute force, but taking a lot of time for the dog to adjust to each step. I don't know what the time elapsed was but he kept doing it until the dog no longer feared going up and down stairs. Same thing with a dog who was afraid of shiny floors. Eventually after being escorted over the floors for the umpteenth time he finally lost his fear. I find these episodes fascinating.

My original corgi was afraid to walk through the parking garage of an apartment we once rented. It spooked him like crazy. He was never comfortable no matter how many times we did it.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

JG..Thanks for the barking tip. It's not the Doxie, but the Boston who barks at sidewalk walkers. He seems to think he owns this part of town surrounding his house. I hate yapping dogs so I immediately try to stop it. The food treats should maybe work since both dogs are food oriented. I just hope they don't stop barking at people I don't want to be here.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Doxies love to eat, huh Lily? A dog that will lay mellow and belly up has accepted you as their leader - they also obviously trust you immensely.

Did you try putting a bench or chair by the window so the dogs could jump up and see who was walking by? Maybe they don't want to miss potential company :)


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Neither old or practicing epi, so others do use the expression, including my 48 yo Christian hubby.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Paulines. They do love to eat, and this one does a most disgusting thing. He eats poop. Never had a dog who did that. He doesn't eat his own or his "brother's" but I have to watch him like a hawk at the doggie park if someone didn't pick up after their dog and on walks . He's very quick. Luckily all six litter boxes are in the basement where he doesn't go , and the only one upstairs is inaccessible to him . I'm sure cat poop would be a delicacy to him. I really don't get this behavior, but I hear it's common.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

lily: I have seen products at one of the big pet stores that discourage the eating of poop. Don't know if they work but it might be worth a try.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

JZ..Thanks, but I think those products are sprinkled on the dogs food to prevent him from eating his own poop. My dog is discriminate. He eats others..preferably frozen ones.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Lily, I would really love to help you, but that is beyond my skill set. I will ask a trainer friend of mine and see what he recommends. Barking is a tricky subject, mainly because there will be times when you definitely WANT your dog to bark, and other times when it's not appropriate.

All dogs eat cat poop. I don't have an answer for the cat thing... but I can tell you why he eats other dog's poop. Often, a dog fed a cheap quality food loaded with flavor enhancers and poor digestibility is not thoroughly processed the first time it goes through the dog. What smells nasty to us, may smell like steak and lobster to your dog. So, he rushes to gobble it up, knowing there's still nutrition there. Gross, yes. But it's only gross to us, and not the dog.

Dogs eat things we would never dream of eating! Like the gutbag of fresh roadkill, or a week old rotted dead bird... they eat some strange things, for sure... but they're dogs.

If your dog eats its own feces, either switch to a better feed that's more digestible, or you can sprinkle a tiny bit of Adolph's meat tenderizer over it... which will help break it down further allowing it to fully digest. It's a lot cheaper than buying For-Bid from the vet.

Part of the problem, it seems, is that a lot of people try to relate everything "pet" on a human level, and they are not human... they are dogs. Surely, we love them... but they are still animals.

Kate, if I had to guess... I'd say that either someone is antagonizing those dogs through the fence when you aren't there to witness it... or they're neglected by their owners. There could be a lot of other reasons involved, as well. The bottom line is that you shouldn't have to put up with incessant barking or aggressive behavior from any neighborhood dog. That's not common courtesy and doesn't make for good neighbors. I might have called someone on them, too.

Once more... we could solve a lot of our animal related issues with intelligent regulation and responsible owners and breeders.

I've had mutts within the span of my life, too... but once I met the Performance Type American Bulldog... really well bred ones... every other breed faded into the distance for me. There's something incredibly special and genetically inherent within this animal that I simply don't see in any others. And this was back during the 1980's and around that time period... and today, I would be hard pressed to recommend more than a few breeders I'd trust to purchase a dog from. That's sad.

Once a dog is placed in the public spotlight, everyone suddenly wants one... and mills go to work creating what the public wants, be it good, bad, or who knows... it's the money they're after, and they could care less about the animal.

And because we have such weak laws and unregulated areas within the industry, we have a need for shelters and rescues. The main purpose of any industry is to make a profit... and when ethics and integrity are missing, it always ends up a big mess.

I've mentioned before... we were approached by Disney to sell them dogs for Homeward Bound. We refused. We know where the dogs used in the movie came from, and he made a lot of money. Karma struck, and he is now broke from a lawsuit... he sold a "protection trained" dog to a woman who is now deceased, because it turns out the dog was not trained at all. The definition of moral bankruptcy.

This is only one of many reasons I get angry where greed is involved... because of greed, a woman is dead. And she, unfortunately, is only one victim in way too many.

Perhaps if there had been a few intelligently worded pieces of legislation surrounding this industry, the woman would have gotten the dog she paid around $20,000 for, and she'd be alive today to tell the story of her heroic dog that defended her against an attacker.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Lily, have you talked to your vet? Sometimes they eat feces because they are lacking certain nutrients, a pancreatic problem or have parasites. DS also said other reasons are boredom, as Jodi mentioned it could be low quality or inappropriate dog food, stress, lack of exercise or even loneliness. If it isn't a medical reason you can try adding a little bit of canned pumpkin (repugnant to dogs after it is digested) or pineapple to their food or again, as Jodi mentioned, a little bit of MSG. If it isn't medical then you can train them to stop but it will take time, patience and most of all attention. It is a common problem.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

This dog stuff sure gets emotional don't it ? We were invited to take a puppy from a litter that were trying to survive in a shed at the bottom of a neighbours garden. Underneath 4 or 5 black pups was our one, kind of dirty but white, we took her home and combed the crap out of her fur and watched the science fiction creatures expelled by worm medication. I trained her as best I knew how and she played her part always meeting me halfway. She would bark the arrival of my wife's car when there is no instrument at NASA that could do the same. When she barked inappropriately she would take a tennis ball in her mouth to control herself. When she died at 11 years old I think I lost more than she did. And that is all, with tears in my eyes I know about dogs.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Can't get a good dog from a shelter? What a bunch of hooey.


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RE: Dog Bites Anchor Woman On Air

Nobody said a good dog can't come from a shelter... don't stir trouble where there is none.

What is being said is that not all shelter dogs will be great dogs, and you're taking a chance... there are many unknowns.


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