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Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 9:37

Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife
by Lisa Wade

Here's some great news. The vast majority of young people -- about 80% of women and 70% of men across all races, classes, and family backgrounds -- desire an egalitarian marriage in which both partners share breadwinning, housekeeping, and child rearing. The data come from Kathleen Gerson's fabulous 2010 book, The Unfinished Revolution.

In practice, however, egalitarian relationships are difficult to establish. Both work and family are "greedy institutions," ones that take up lots of time and energy. Many couples find that, once children arrive, it's impossible for both to do both with equal gusto.

With this in mind, Gerson asked her respondents what type of family they would like if, for whatever reason, they couldn't sustain an equal partnership. She discovered that, while men's and women's ideals are very similar, their fallback positions deviate dramatically.

Men's most common fallback position is to establish a neotraditional division of labor: 70% hope to convince their wives to de-prioritize their careers and focus on homemaking and raising children. Women? Faced with a husband who wants them to be a housewife or work part-time, almost three-quarters of women say they would choose divorce and raise their kids alone. In fact, despite men's insistence on being breadwinners, women are more likely than men to say they value success in a high-paying career.

Look at this absolutely stunning data (matching ideals on the left; clashing fallback positions on the right):

[will someone post the graphic showing the stunning data, please]

I was stunned upon reading these results. With so much fundamentalism rising in this country, I figured that the egalitarian age of aquarius has yielded to Biblical strictures.

Here is a link that might be useful: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Hee you go.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I probably should not reveal this here because people seem to use info later but......

It was my position. My ex wanted a housewife and I tried by falling back on my seamstress skills and made wedding gowns other bridal clothing. Good money but not happy money made. I missed the boardroom. Dealing with those silly brides to be was just annoying. Choice to be a housewife doing something I did not really enjoy and stay married or...... Since I said ex you know my final decision.


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I'm closer to retirement now than worrying about working or being a housewife but.............I would have preferred to be able to stay home with my son when he was a baby, todler and through elementary school. A mother misses so many things when she works outside the home and tries to be mother too. I was divorced when my son was four so really didn't have a choice. We did lots of quality things together, but in my opinion that doesn't make up for the times you couldn't be there. As usual, JMHO.


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I wanted to be a wife and mother, and would absolutely consider it a profession worthy of respect and a lot more. It's anything but easy, and shouldn't be shrugged off as such, as society seems to do. Maintaining the household and raising offspring is every bit as challenging and difficult as other professions/careers. The only difference is in the rewards gleaned from working such a career.


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It was a mutual decision at my house for the wife to go back to work after the birth of each child. Everyone seemed happy with it. I think a happy family is important for the children; if either parent is unhappy with their own choice then that would affect the children too. Both of our children have grown up to be happy, well-adjusted individuals.

Here's hoping that families can make the decision that works best for them. Unfortunately, due to finances, some can't.


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I have 3 grandchildren who's mom has put her career on hold for now. I live close to them and every day I witness the close bond between mom and children. It gives me great joy to see that my grandchildren and their mom (and dad) have a close bond. Working moms miss out on a lot. Unfortunately for most, working is a financial must.

I have to share a cute Q&A that took place between my 3 year old grandson and my daughter.

Caleb: Mom, who made the sun?
Mom: Who do you think made the sun?

He deliberated a moment and then replied:

Ummmmmmmmm...construction workers?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

You know why they choose that, right? "If I'm going to do it all by myself, I may as well be by myself." Truth. It's certainly fraught with less arguing on a day-to-day basis.


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Hats off to women who can do it without committing harakiri. I'm working from home this year, and the lack of daily adult conversation and social stimulation has me climbing the very walls.


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"It's certainly fraught with less arguing on a day-to-day basis."

Ain't that the truth?

wonder what the men's preference would have been in they been faced with the choice between househusband and divorce...


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 12:57

When the first ones came along I worked nights and he worked days to share the childcare, except when I came home from work I still had all the duties (with no sleep) as a SAHM. Then when #3 child came along I found the daycare was making more money than I was. So I stayed at home until the last one started school.

One income was not a choice, my job was flexible and I could leave at any moment if school called ... we spent a lot of "quality" time as opposed to "quantity" time together.

My oldest daughter and I often joke that those who talk about the joys of motherhood never had "teenagers". :)

It still amazes me that I made it through the "teen years", should probably receive a gold medal.


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Where are the husbands/fathers in this discussion? I am of the age where the young fathers were expected to earn enough to support wife and children. In fact my wife at the time refused to find any work (other than baby sitting) because the wife's place was in the home taking care of home and children. So I was at time working three jobs to support our minimal lifestyle. I was hardly ever home. No wonder the marriage didn't last through later stresses to the marriage and marriage vows.


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Odd situation. I never remarried (came close a few times) because in the end, I was most attracted to independent women who were not "housewife material". Turned out I was often the better cook and preferred to do my own laundry and other personal chores. I already had children and had no wish for more, so why get married again?


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Most women dont have the luxury of the option of not working a salaried job these days, as noted: but if I want to have to do the lion's share of the drudge work at home as well as bring home a portion of the bacon -

minus one person is much less housework on a daily basis, if the man I am with is so lazy/egotistical/uncaring and unloving that it is a daily fight to get him to do his share of child raising/home keeping.

If a man somehow feels less than a man in a partnership relationship of mutual equality and respect, I would suspect his manhood problems existed before ever meeting his wife and would continue to exist when she no longer around.
However, I suspect that much of that stuff these days is nothing more excuses to get out of having to do a reasonable share of the daily housework/daily child rearing.
No woman should have a child today unless one can, at any moment in time, assume the full financial responsibility for herself and her children.

The person you married is never the person you divorce. Cant stress that enough. The things I saw women I worked with or knew- it taught me a lot about human nature.

Nobody can force child support payments if the spouse is flat determined not to pay it. That loving, caring, wonderful man you married disappears once the divorce papers are filed and most certainly this is true of women, too. Both sexes shockingly think nothing of using children as weapons for mass destruction, and also forcing children to look at their other parent through hateful eyes.

A woman needs to accept that with the divorce rate, she had better be prepped to ALWAYS be able to support herself and her children all by herself, all on her own.
Dropping out of the work force until the children are in school does not allow for that capability to exist, this often comes as a shock to women who think that they can quickly slip back into the sort of position they held before the babies came.
The longer you are out of the work force, the less interested the work force is in you. Younger, more eager, perhaps now better qualified women with now better experience, less baggage aka sick kids etc. have taken her place.
Its a different world out there, this is the new reality that women must evaluate when getting married and having the first child.


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mylab123 wrote,

Nobody can force child support payments if the spouse is flat determined not to pay it.

They can make it difficult, I agree, but in states where the extraction of support monies can be accomplished by wage execution (taking it from pay via the employer), it can be impossible to escape.

I agree with your points in general.


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Hats off to women who can do it without committing harakiri. I'm working from home this year, and the lack of daily adult conversation and social stimulation has me climbing the very walls.

Yep that was how I felt. Love my daughter dearly but love the outside stimulation.

Marshall, It was more my mother and father's old ideas that a woman's place was in the home and when I found that old fashion guy since it was what I was raised to think I thought I could do it.

A woman went to college to find a man to care for her and the family. She was to be educated to be able to hold a intelligent conversation to assist with the advancement of her husband. My sisters were fine with that life but they were older.

Running a house was easy to easy for me. I know women say it is a commendable job but after the kids go to school there is very little to do. I lasted until she was in second grade that was as long as I could take that housewife thing.


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In three generations, times have changed so drastically. My mother worked briefly as a telephone operator where she met my father, the manager. When they became engaged she attended a cooking school, and became a wonderful cook. For an occupation? No, to better serve my father with her sumptuous meals. Her ordinary any day of the week meals would far surpass my holiday meals. It's a wonder I didn't weigh 200 pounds , but all of us remained thin. Genetics, it had to be because we consumed the calories. Healthy and good though(if you count meat as healthy which I don't anymore). The next generation, me, always had a well balanced evening meal for the family but nothing to write home about. I didn't bake, prepared basic healthy food. The next generation, my daughter doesn't cook at all. She has a high powered very stressful job , so her husband makes their meals. And he doesn't make meals like I did/do, but extravagant multi course meals. They all eat together every night. Son , who is single, cooks for himself. He's a vegetarian and eats very well and healthy.

My father ,who died in 1977, would not believe what these guys are going today. He was waited on hand and foot. He provided a good salary, a beautiful home, and my mother was his servant...as I see it, but they had a very happy marriage so it's what she wanted too, I guess.


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Oddly enough I was talking about just this very thing with a friend last night.

I call this "Male Entitlement Syndrome" Men expect to be able to CHOSE what they do and women do what must be done-which of course includes everything men wont do or at least wont do without frequent beatings. More and more women are realizing that they can support themselves so why add the burden of washing someone elses socks-the socks of someone who leaves them on the floor. If the man in your life is not going to feel responsible for picking up the kids without a fight then why fight? Who needs that in their life? This state of affairs is exactly what the ultra conservative man has been predicting for eons-why else bar women from the professions in the past if not fear that a self supporting woman wont be at your beck and call.

Those women who want a traditional marriage of female house wife and male bacon getter need to look at the real risks that it entails-and always has by the way.


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I grew up around women who were either unmarried or were married to men who tolerated a degree of independence. I actually envied my peers living in a conventional home with stay-at-home moms. I did have one aunt who was a housewife but insisted that hubby pay for a house cleaner a couple of times a week. Another aunt and my grandmother ran a restaurant until my grandmother was too old, then my aunt went back to school teaching. The oldest aunt was married but ran a hotel while hubby ran a plumbing and heating and electrical business. Prior to a late marriage, she was a bank officer. So my role models were not exactly as advertised for the 1940's and 1950's.


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My fallback position was raising a child alone. As it turned out, it meant not receiving a dime of child support, and stretched thin working, paying the bills, doing home/yard/auto maintenance, and child-rearing. I've barely had a personal life nor dated for almost a dozen years, because life responsibilities and my son's needs were put before a social life. This mode of parenting was grueling for me and not so great for my son either, because he was shortchanged of a normal family life.

I hate to sound traditional, but it is rare that children are not traumatized by divorce and the breakup of families. Few divorced parents are enlightened enough to put aside their own emotional issues and conflict with the other parent, and put the children first. Newly divorced parents aren't really interested in parenting "alone", and they leave skid marks behind them rushing into the next relationship or marriage, because they are more interested in their own needs (emotional, financial, sexual, or whatever) than the needs of the children. This creates a host of exes, step-s, half-s, and chaos.

Perhaps women should think a bit more about getting married and having children in the first place, if they are so quick to think raising children alone is preferable to divorce.


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I think it's relevant that women lactate and men don't.


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terrene wrote,

I hate to sound traditional, but it is rare that children are not traumatized by divorce and the breakup of families.

I don't think that's a "traditional" opinion, nor a non-traditional one; it's just a well-founded observation.

Few divorced parents are enlightened enough to put aside their own emotional issues and conflict with the other parent, and put the children first. Newly divorced parents aren't really interested in parenting "alone", and they leave skid marks behind them rushing into the next relationship or marriage, because they are more interested in their own needs (emotional, financial, sexual, or whatever) than the needs of the children. This creates a host of exes, step-s, half-s, and chaos.

I think that's an unfair and exceedingly broad generalization. At least among those divorced parents with custody of children that I have known, there is a mixture, a spectrum, which defies such a one-dimensional characterization.


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True gender equality in this country will not exist until it is as likely that the husband stays home and raises the children as it will be the wife.

I know two couples where this has been the case-the wife kept working and the husband took off from his career to raise the children. One of the husbands talked a lot about how weird the "other mothers" thought he was when he took his kids to the park when the kids were little.


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  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 15:26

"wonder what the men's preference would have been in they been faced with the choice between househusband and divorce..."

I think I could get with being a househusband. I'm pretty domestic and spending time on family and home are more rewarding to me than working for the man. I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.


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To me, it would depend on the definition of housewife and what all of that would entail. I currently work at home and homeschool our 2 oldest children (the 2 younger attend public schools). I long to be able to quit my job but it has very little to do with the laundry. I hate the restrictions on my time as I would much rather have more time to garden (which does feed the family), volunteer in the community, or cook a little more. Frankly, if I were a housewife, I doubt the house which be much more than a fraction cleaner than it is now. In many ways, I think that no matter what my occupation was (housewife or in a career I liked) raising children and living life would be easier without accounting for the desires and opinions of somebody else. I am not saying I would seek a divorce just because it is easier but should my husband pass first, I can honestly say I would probably be just as happy single.


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Or... it could be that they did think about it and it was all fine and dandy until they had the child. Little did she know his parenting style would be so disparate from hers that the middle ground could not be found. And said child was quite unhappy while in the middle of the fray (it likely would've helped if the rules hadn't been constantly changing. He still does that, but I don't have to live it!). I think we might've been married longer if we never had the baby. It's amazing how one area could separate us so much, but it did. And then he had the downward spiral. So we would've parted ways anyhow.

In the meantime, I took the boy away from constant chaos and instability. Luckily, he's surrounded by good father figures who are involved in his life. And I don't mean boyfriends. He has grown to know what marriage and child rearing could like on both sides of the coin and he sounds pretty grounded. I think he'll turn out ok despite the divorce.

Just 'cause it sounded so judgmental. There are many situations and most of life isn't conducive to crystal balls. Geesh, I wish I'd had that crystal ball and avoided the whole deal! 'cept, I wouldn't have my son. Nothing could make me happier than my son, so I guess I would've done it anyhow.


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There are only two things that a woman can do that a man cant-one is bear children and the other is nurse them. Lactation(which has acceptable substitutes these days) is only a small part of the child rearing process. Men have been using this as a 'sign' of the natural role of women for as long as they have been trying to keep women from having a public role. Women who did not toe the line were 'unwomanly' the kiss of death as far as getting married was concerned and in the past it was almost impossible for a woman to have a job that paid enough to more than starve to death on-in a world arranged by men it doesnt take too much imagination to figure out why-no one wants to scrub the floors and cook dinner every blessed night. When men can chose they do not clean bathrooms. They mow lawns.

If having committed parenting is so important then why arent men sharing in this most important part of life?

Last but not least-having a mommie at home making heart shaped pancakes for breakfast is not the norm for the history of child rearing in western culture. Since home making in the past was a full time job-hard and laborous children had to look after themselves and share in the work load at surprisingly early ages. I am not convinced that witless dependent children who do not know how to wash their own clothes at the age of 18 is in the best interest of children


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-no one wants to scrub the floors and cook dinner every blessed night. When men can chose they do not clean bathrooms. They mow lawns.

My issue with this is the broad generalizations being made. I can promise that my guy would ALWAYS choose to clean a bathroom over mowing the lawn. He does the laundry, I handle the power tools. I do the cooking, he does the cleanup.

Perhaps we are lucky in that we haven't had children (and the concomitant nonstop fatigue) to bring out whatever conditioned sex role behaviors might lurk beneath our happily nongendered routine, but there you have it.

I never remarried (came close a few times) because in the end, I was most attracted to independent women who were not "housewife material". Turned out I was often the better cook and preferred to do my own laundry and other personal chores. I already had children and had no wish for more, so why get married again?

Companionship? Bliss? Shared adventures? Someone around to warn you when you have spinach stuck in a front tooth?


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Facto, the "traditional" part is that for the most part I think married people should try to stay together for the sake of the children, unless the marital relationship is very unhealthy or abusive.

Yeah, I was making a pretty broad generalization on the state of divorced parents, guess I've observed few exceptions. Perhaps that's partly because many people get married and start having kids when they are young adults, and they haven't really lived long enough to understand and work out their own issues yet. And who doesn't grow up with issues from their childhood? Well, maybe there are a few people.


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"Companionship? Bliss? Shared adventures? Someone around to warn you when you have spinach stuck in a front tooth?"

...someone who always has your back, no matter what?


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Ahhhh, yes! That's why there are so few divorces because one's spouse always has your back.


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terrene wrote,

Facto, the "traditional" part is that for the most part I think married people should try to stay together for the sake of the children, unless the marital relationship is very unhealthy or abusive.

Tough call. Even a non-unhealthy and non-abusive but loveless marriage can hurt children, in a different way from divorce. There is no good answer, and every case is different.


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I went to visit a friend whose niece was visiting her at the same time. When I got there the niece was not to be seen. She showed up later and headed for the fridge/freezer. She had been pumping breast milk to take back with her when she returned home (NY) from here (GA). Now the child is over a year old so obviously it wasn't in need of the milk right then, but I was amazed that she just took care it and went on with living her life.

Modern women just deal with it; lactation doesn't tie them down anymore.


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"No woman should have a child today unless one can, at any moment in time, assume the full financial responsibility for herself and her children." mylab123

Couldn't agree more. Exactly why I never had children. Witnessed my girlfriends being mistreated because they got stuck to man by having a baby. Sure, they picked losers. No doubt about that. But I saw what they were willing to endure just to try to keep the peace and keep the loser around.

Reminds me of the Mary Chapin Carpenter song, "He Thinks He'll Keep Her." Love that song.

Here is a link that might be useful: Have a listen


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"Ahhhh, yes! That's why there are so few divorces because one's spouse always has your back."

Guess the ones who don't look out for each other don't make it.


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True. More than half the marriages have been ending in divorce. Good thing that one's life does not depend on having one's spouse guarding the back. Not a great advertisement for marriage. I've known a few great marriages, matches made in heaven and nurtured on earth with love and kindnesses. I would love that kind of relationship.

Getting maudlin in my old age.


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Both my parents were married only to each other , common then - as is DH and myself have been married only to each other - much more uncommon.

I cant imagine having to have ever divorced or having to have raised children alone and am so grateful for that good fortune. I worked with women who suffered through all of it and had friends out of the workplace who did, it made for tragic, really frightening stories of unhappiness, desperation and loneliness.

Besides the children suffering so deeply, what impacted me the most was how, so often, the people who had been so deeply in love and like and respect with each other could turn on each other so viciously come divorce time, blame such behavior on the spouse while being blind to the same behavior from themselves.
It made me wonder if there really was any such thing as a well mannered divorce.

I know it can end up that way years later - my sister went through an ugly divorce ( after an ugly marriage) and now the ex stops by for coffee all the time with my sister and her husband, they help each other out all the time in all kinds of ways.

And so the world turns I guess *LOL* they are far nicer to each other years after the divorce passed than they ever to each other when married!

It all makes me wonder if there is some secret to a long term successful marriage or if luck plays a much more important part in baby boomer + marriage than we might think.


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marshall, for a deeply intelligent, kind man who champions women such as yourself- its never too late. There are far more good, kind women than men who are alone and wish for a loving companion.

You just have to be vocally open to it. You don't have to be married to have a relationship worth its weight in gold.

For women I believe for 99% I do think "too late" comes around, I believe its far less likely for a good man. Of course only my take on it.


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"...blame such behavior on the spouse while being blind to the same behavior from themselves."

You have to be a team, if "it's all about me", it ain't gonna work.

If, however, you commit to a loser you think you're going to save, all bets are off.

JMO.


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I'm the first generation in my family to believe in equalkity in the marriage. My mother, after we all finsihed high school, decided to go back to college and get her nurse's registry all over again (was originally just going to take refresher courses, and found so much had changed since the 50's that she did it all over). That was almost enough for my father to leave her. Me, If my wife were to decide to go to work, that would be just fine with me!! In fact, I'd really appreciate it! But she prefers to be a housewife, and do her genealogy thing, and that's fine with me, too. This is where I'm NOT so conservative-- to me, it's not about what I want, but rather what it takes for my wife to be happy.


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Wow Mylab, you think too late comes around for 99% of women, but it's never too late for a good single man? How does that work?

I realize that women live longer than men, and that as people get older, there will be proportionately more single women than men, but you make the situation sound hopeless for older women who might want to get married.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 21:22

"love and kindness"

....if only there was more of it not only would there be better marriages but a better world.


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"I realize that women live longer than men, and that as people get older, there will be proportionately more single women than men, but you make the situation sound hopeless for older women who might want to get married."

You don't need a man to have a partner to share your life with. Just sayin'.


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Thank you, mylab, for the kind words. I have many well-meaning friends with very needy and often "injured" friends who my friends think would be perfect for me. I vowed some time ago to stop "saving" people from themselves or their pasts. I am a bit gun-shy and distrustful. Call me naturally grouchy. :)

From time to time some woman comes along and tugs at these bands protecting my heart and I do have some very dear female friends of all ages who do look after me and perhaps even understand me.


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And now that I've ruined my reputation as a mysogenist, let me see about getting it back:

How do you turn a fox into an elephant?
Marry It!

What is the difference between a battery and a woman?
A battery has a positive side.

Why is the space between a woman's breasts and her hips called a waist?
Because you could easily fit another pair of boobs in there..

How do you make 5 pounds of fat look good?
Put a nipple on it.

Why do women fake orgasms ?
Because they think men care.

What do you say to a woman with 2 black eyes?
Nothing, she's been told twice already.

If your wife keeps coming out of the kitchen to nag at you, what have you done wrong?
Made her chain too long.


Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?
Because a woman who can't even afford a washing machine will probably never be able to support you.

Why do women have smaller feet than men?
It's one of those 'evolutionary things' that allows them to stand closer to the kitchen sink.
Why do men pass gas more than women?
Because women can't shut up long enough to build up the required pressure.

If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, who do you let in first ?
The dog, of course. He'll shut up once you let him in.

Scientists have discovered a food that diminishes a woman's sex drive by 90%.
It's called a Wedding Cake.

Why do men die before their wives?
They want to.


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When I stop laughing and groaning, I'm going to reprimand you, Bill, for being a mysticologist.


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Tears are running down my face. Toooo funny; just awful though ;D

The gas one is the best, IMO.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

friends who my friends think would be perfect for me

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man [of a certain age] in possession of a good fortune fair health, must be in want of a wife female companion.

Apologies to Jane Austen.


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"What do you say to a woman with 2 black eyes?
Nothing, she's been told twice already. " from BV

Oh yeah thats a real big laugh for you is it?

Oh I know ....you were just having fun with a few jokes....


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Good deal. My reputation's intact. :-)

I wouoldn't want you to get the right idea about me, yq.


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Although I AM disappointed you didn't pick up on the one about the woman being on too long a chain, too.


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Hey Bill, do you have a similarly hilarious list about black people?


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In the interest of fair play.

Why do doctors slap babies' butts right after they're born?
To knock the penises off the smart ones.

Why do female black widow spiders kill the males after mating?
To stop the snoring before it starts.

Why do jocks play on artificial turf?
To keep them from grazing.

Why do little boys whine?
Because they are practicing to be men.

Why do men like smart women?
Opposites attract.

What has eight arms and an IQ of 60?
Four guys watching a football game

What's the best way to kill a man?
Put a naked blonde and a six-pack in front of him. Then tell him to pick only one.

What's the difference between Big Foot and intelligent man?
Big Foot's been spotted a several times.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I guess I'm grouchy early in the morning--not amused at the "game" of battle of the sexes. I always hear a bad undertone. Those two black eyes are why some women have no desire to marry again.

Kate


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Ditto what Kate said.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Mrsjkun's "joke's are at best mildly droll and a lot more mean-spirited although the 2 black-eyes one of Bill's is a sicko.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

marshall, I am married to the kindest, most thoughtful, and most intelligent man in the world, who sends me blonde jokes because he knows I have a sense of humor. I in turn send him jokes like these that make him chuckle. It must be terrible to go through life without a sense of humor. Sure, the two black eye joke is not to my taste, but I know what bills intentions were, and I know what they weren't. They weren't meant to offend anyone. But just give someone a chance, they'll leap.


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Well, no accounting for taste. Also private exchanges as you have described are qualitatively different than posting such on the internet. Not all people will be amused all the time and that does not necessarily mean they have not senses of humor. Try to be a bit less judgmental, dear Mrskjun.


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More like you eh marshall?


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Of course! Do as I say, not as I do! :)


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:00

The "black eyes" is hilarious, almost as funny as my ex mother in law telling me it was "all my fault for talking back" as I lay in a hospital bed.


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Domestic violence is never funny.


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om and nancy..I'll never justify domestic violence. My first dh was an abuser. But please tell me that you believe that bill is an abuser and therefore he thinks that's a funny joke? You know his intent, and you know if he had thought about it, he would have never included that joke. But some of you are just waiting for the chance...parsing every sentence and word in order to attack. What miserable lives some of you must lead.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I learned to dance...for my wife. So you know I'm committed.

Salsa
Merengue
Ballroom
Waltz

She calls it exercise. I call it humiliation.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

MsK, by making light of a serious social problem the very real problem of abuse is minimized.

I believe that you have taken offense at jokes made at the expense of Southern whites. I guess your outrage is selective depending on where the humor is directed.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:20

Brush remember the dance studios, some still exist, back in the day? My mom and dad took lessons, he loved to dance .. in fact it may have been his idea. He would waltz us girls around the house singing.


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oh nancy...I must have missed the "jokes" about southern whites. I promise you "jokes" I can take. You'll have to refer me back to a post that shows one of those "jokes". I'll be waiting.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Mom,

I learned to dance at the studio in Medina.

I'm very comfortable with it now, especially in a crowded room. :)


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:27

I think it is wonderful that you "dance with your wife" :)


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:28

VgQn & I share the workload though I'm more outside chores and inside maintenance, no kids here so that makes it easier. You parents get a extra Gold Star!

While we amuse ourselves with gender based jokes I wonder what list of jokes an alien race has complied about the human race? If they didn't have a sense of humor to begin with we've probably given them one.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Aren't there a couple of ex Mrs. Bills in the background somewhere?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Please let us not personalize this subject too much. And don't ask me about my abusive ex. My kids suffered much when I wasn't around.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

MsK, I'm not playing your games.

Your history of selective outrage is well documented through the years, and I'm sure others remember your sarcasm when humor is directed at topics you hold dear -- GOP politicians for another example.

What would be your reaction to a 'joke' about violence towards children? If that crosses a line, a joke about violence towards women should as well.

Ciao.


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If my wife were to decide to go to work, that would be just fine with me!! In fact, I'd really appreciate it! But she prefers to be a housewife, and do her genealogy thing, and that's fine with me, too. This is where I'm NOT so conservative-- to me, it's not about what I want, but rather what it takes for my wife to be happy.

Bill I think this is very sweet. But it also means that your wife is safe at home, predictable. If your wife did decide to go out in the workforce, is it possible you might feel a little bit threatened? She could start changing, perhaps meet new men, etc.

As for the jokes, I am scratching my head because I found them funny, and yet there is not much in the world I find more deplorable than people (be it men or women) who abuse those who are weaker and more vulnerable than they are (and that includes animals), in order to vent their spleen or achieve a sense of power and control.


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nancy I do find jokes about violence toward women offensive. But I also am able to look at intent. I do not believe it was ever bills intent to be offensive with his jokes. And if you think I'm wrong about people "looking" for something to attack, just read duluths post above. Just a hint right?


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Tempest in a teapot.

Everyone knows that Bill does not condone violence against women or that he has a poor opinion of women.

But everyone does not believe that liberals that trash God or the South feel the same.

We know the contempt held by some liberals for Christians and the South, gun owners, and anyone that does not agree with them and think like them.

It's all posturing.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Please stop twisting my comments.

I said violence against women is never funny. I wrote nothing about why the 'joke' was posted.

Have fun fighting a straw man of your own making.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

In my earlier comment, I said nothing about the poster's "intent." I was referring to the "content" of the "joke." The content was misogynistic, whether the intent was or was not. I objected to the content.

Inferring "intention" is much more difficult, because you could have a "conscious" intention in direct conflict with your "unconscious" motivations. According to Freud, unconscious motivations often find release through things like dreams or JOKES! With a joke, those unconscious hostilities momentarily revealed can be dismissed with "oh, it was just a funny--nothing serious." But in fact it was serious in that it revealed the unconscious hostility. We spend a lot of our time constructing images that are acceptable to ourselves and others, but if we spent much time digging under those "acceptable" public images, we might be surprised at how contradictory the buried stuff is.

That's what makes humans complex and interesting--if we dig beyond the conscious surface to the buried/unconscious attitudes underneath.

Well, I just don't seem to have my sense of humor in gear yet today, do I--but I just can't get beyond the misogynistic CONTENT of some jokes--and that always gets me to wondering about the unconscious motivation behind the telling of misogynistic "jokes" that simulataneously deny the misogyny by pretending the content was just a funny, nothing serious.

Kate


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The nature of some humor is hostile!


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

It's a traditional, cultural notion in some quarters that if a wife chooses a career or earns more it somehow emasculates the husband. It's a silly notion.

It's also a traditional, cultural and religious notion that a marriage can only be comprised of a man and woman. Another silly notion. Gender is unimportant to the contract.

Of course a wife wants to be treated as an equal in marriage. Marriage is a 50/50 partnership, regardless of gender, regardless of role, complete with mutual respect, trust, etc... what woman or partner wants to be treated as lesser, or made to take what is nothing more than a traditional role for the sake of tradition?

Some people might not mind taking a more traditional role, but that doesn't mean they want to be thought of or treated as less than equal.

My husband knows first hand how difficult it is to maintain a household and raise children. He's the type that could take either role, as breadwinner or stay-at-home parent, or could just as easily take an equal share in both roles. I could have done likewise. Our relationship is anything but traditional.

The title of the article in the OP is misleading, I think. Women want to be treated as an equal in the relationship. It has more to do with that than the role they choose to take or share in.


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It is the norm.

Abused women will scream the loudest He Did Not Mean It!!!!! He loves me!! He loves everybody!!! He is a wonderful person!!! How do they know he is wonderful? Because they have never met this man but he posted a joke about giving a woman two black eyes he must be wonderful. Full of love and respect. Seek help oh sick ones.


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mar, are you talking about Bill? I'm not sure your comments are any more informed than others. I've seen his compassion and I know it exists. What he does in the privacy of his home, I don't know, but neither do you. Tread lightly, please. "seek help oh sick ones."???


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I think marq is referring to those who praise men they don't know even when the evidence is eye-brow raising, to say the least. Like abused women are usually quick to defend the abuser.

Kate


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What he does in the privacy of his home, I don't know, but neither do you. Tread lightly, please.

Exactly. None of us know. We do not live with him or anyone else on this form, that has been revealed. So I am not vouching for his intent or non-intent. Since we do not know him do you feel after he posted the black eye and got a laugh and he went and gave his wife two black eyes is that okay? Hey people thought it was funny. They said it was okay.

My opinion is it is not funny nor will I support posting violence against a woman or anyone. It is not funny.

Yes I think a person should seek help that will defend abuse. We do not know on a open forum who is going through that kind of abuse. It hurts people when you go open forum with that kind of talk and jokes.

My opinion and will never tread lightly when it comes to abuse taken lightly and jokes. It minimizing the act and nothing to laugh about. I have had friends go through that and it is not a joking issue.

As a side note.....I laughed at the other jokes when I got to that one I saw red.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Intent? Some are saying here ...yes the "joke" is disgusting....but dear old Bill would never have a bad intent in posting it.

Listen to yourselves.

The intent is in the POSTING

I can only speculate that this was posted to get a reaction...I dont know for sure.

What I do know is that all adults need to take responsibility for what they choose to post on the internet.

that joke is sick ( it gives validation to the position /philosophy that most women "deserve" a bit of a bashing now and then , hey?) .
I question why anyone would choose to post it.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Keep in mind, people, if I ate garbage and pooped rainbows, this woman (yq) would find something about me to bi*ch about. Like I said, my reputation is intact.

The content was misogynistic, whether the intent was or was not. I objected to the content.

And Kate, that was the intention. Read the preface at the beginning of that post.

Bill I think this is very sweet. But it also means that your wife is safe at home, predictable. If your wife did decide to go out in the workforce, is it possible you might feel a little bit threatened? She could start changing, perhaps meet new men, etc.

terrene, it wouldn't bother me a bit. As for being threatened, If it's going to happen, it's gong to happen. if the only reason we're together is because she hasn't met the right guy to take her away yet? I'd rather it happen and be done with it. Rather than live a lie. Personally, I think it's a non-issue. If I'm wrong, though, so be it.

Aren't there a couple of ex Mrs. Bills in the background somewhere?

Yes, so what of it?

Hey Bill, do you have a similarly hilarious list about black people?

No, most of the ethnic jokes I know are Italian. It was a nice try, though, factoman.


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Oh-- and by the way-- MrsKjun-- that was a riot!


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Substitute any other group:
"child with 2 black eyes"
"Chinese immigrant with 2 black eyes"
"querelous elderly person..."
"black man/woman/child..."

Is it funny?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Jodik, for the most part I would agree with you.

What makes a marriage an equal partnership, to me, is not so much the roles that each one plays but the respect and adaptation of each partner to the role each chooses, as long as its considered equally fair in effort by the other. For example, if the wife chooses to continue with a career, its not assumed by her spouse that her salaried job is in addition to what he expects her to do, in his idea of what housewives must do, at home.

If both are comfortable in the roles each carves out, and are willing to change and adapt as the conditions do, then what exists imo is a good marriage of equal partnership, even if it ends up being one in the strictest, old fashioned last first half century kind of roles within the marriage.

When I was working at a salaried job, we all worked on housework, until it was completed, every day.

Now that I am retired, I do the vast majority of the housework. Why wouldn't I, he is still on a salaried job, there are no children left to raise, it would be selfishly absurd for me to expect he do half of it. But he still will help out now on the weekends, if there are little chores needing to be done.
Nothing is written in stone, and it works nicely for both of us.

We respect each other and want the other to be content in the relationship. That is why we got and remained married and happy for a bit over forty years - besides love, we really like each other very much.
Thank goodness for that.


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Some people might not mind taking a more traditional role, but that doesn't mean they want to be thought of or treated as less than equal.

The problem is the traditional role is not equal. In my eyes I think. For example...

Remodel a kitchen.....the traditional role it is the woman that does the cooking, meal planning etc, But when it comes to the decor the woman wants a type of cabinet, counter top the husband says no he does not like your idea the decision is what he wants.

Why does he get to veto the wife if his contribution in that kitchen it making a sandwich every now and then?

I have seen people in the garden areas say their husband said they cannot spend x amount on plants. Many say they have full time jobs. Should he get a say of how many plants you buy? Do you not know the household budget and what you can afford from your salary or both salaries?

In the traditional role does the female have the same power to tell the male what he cannot buy something?

Those are things that make me cringe. Is the traditional submissive? It does not sound like equal to me.


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You bring up good points, if "traditional" means submissive to either spouse I dont see how that can stand the test of time with both partners in the long haul.

Even if the wife voices no real objection to her submissive role due to outside forces (family pressure, religious dictation etc.) I would have a difficult time accepting that all her life she is basically content in that submissive role, it is to infantizing, imo.

Everyone but the pathologically frightened starts out wanting to be a grown up some day, with the freedom of choices implied to the word.

A lot come with preconceived notions of what their role should be, but in a healthy relationship the position of each person is redefined to what both people need for themselves in order to be a good partner to the other.

This can take a few years to evolve and re- evolve as adaptation to growth and change takes place. This is what it was like for us and for those couples we have known who ended up lucky enough to be in relationships that worked out for the long haul, anyway.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Like each other and make your own traditions. Don't get hung up with words and what you think they mean; there's nothing good to be realized with an attitude.

When it comes to marriage you really do have to walk the walk. Works for us. I've never been a divorcee or a divorcer--28 years here.


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I thought Bill's jokes were fine. Funny enough in their own way. Of course we cringe... I think writing them in a Public forum makes them funnier than hearing them privately, where I might suspect someone of having fun at someone else's expense- or hinting something in a creepy fashion...sort of "my wife, I think I'll keep her" tone.

Unfortunately, what makes those kind of jokes funny is because we all know that those conditions exist. It is part of the human condition. And describing those attitudes in a few lines of a joke sort of says it all... I am not laughing at a woman chained to the kitchen or with two black eyes. I laugh, or smirk, because I know there's some truth to it. Men can be horribly abusing bullies.

I've heard some horrendous humor from some emergency/triage- doctors and nurses, and I think it must be because there is no easy way to deal with the life and death circumstances they face every day.

And in a way, Bill was making fun of himself by posting sexist/redneck jokes. I don't think he was trying to hurt anyone here, or women in general- just illuminating the only too sad and sometimes too true conditions. Sometimes we laugh to keep from crying...


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I think you've got a winner there, Alex.

Bill would probably not own up to that, though. Bad for his rep. ;D


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I dont see how that can stand the test of time with both partners in the long haul.

But I do see those marriages last in this day and age, There is usually a dominant one in the relationship but most of the time it has been the man.

I am not saying it is wrong, just an example of how I understand a professional woman in this day of the opportunities for women she does not have to compromise if her personality is not up to that task.

There is no way a marriage can survive if there is not compromise because you have two different personalities living under the same roof in close constant contact.

Back in the day the traditional marriage of the male bringing home the bacon and you are the little housewife it was normal for the man to have the say of what, where and how much money is spent. Heck, back then the little lady got an allowance. That image really makes me tremble and shake.

It is not a problem if that is the life a man or woman chooses but if it is done because a male/female feels it is all they are worth that is sad,

I will give my ex credit in that department. He just wanted his wife home. That was the only control he wanted. I could have put circus animals on all the walls he did not want any control of anything to do with the house or the gardens. Joint accounts and neither of us told the other what they could and could not buy.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

When I posted "ditto Kate" yesterday, I was thinking, where is Sylvia? I knew you'd have just the right words my dear. Well stated, as always.

And I agree with Alex.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

The highest wage earner in many households simply doesn't make enough money to support the lifestyles they desire, so 2 or more household members have to work.

Many also work since they want their "own" money and/or want to feel like productive members of society.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Most of us ,I think, are happy to do things for our partners. It's when the things we do are expected or demanded or not acknowledged, that there is a problem.

My ex took his clothes off next to the bed every night. I picked them up every morning when I wasn't working (in school). When I went to work, well, I stopped picking them up. He noticed.


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That was incredibly boorish and selfish on his part. Was picking up after himself such a challenge to his manhood?


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My Mom said never start anything you do not want to continue doing.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 11:47

October, that's why I installed hooks on the back of our bedroom door, not that much of a reach.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Well Bill, I think you managed to keep your reputation intact... (and managed to send half the forum into fainting spells and random fits of pious implosion...lol!)

You've just reached Level 5 Master Troll.


Mrsk, I LOVED this one:
Why do female black widow spiders kill the males after mating?
To stop the snoring before it starts.

I'm sending this one to hubby along with the message "So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong..."


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

The reason that black widow spiders eat the male after mating is that he has done his bit and the male is an excelent source of protein. As the dynamics of mating and marriage change men ought to pay attention to that scientific fact. If I were them I would be learning how to gets stains out of rompers and load a dishwasher.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

You've just reached Level 5 Master Troll.

It's a beautiful thing when one's efforts are recognized. :-)


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

hamilton I found these 2 definitions of pious

" Devoutly religious.
Making a hypocritical display of virtue."

so leavig out the first one as it does not fit the situation, you accuse me (as I was one of those who objected to the jokes) of being hypocritical.

can you illucidate? in what way am I untrue to my own values by objecting when jokes about blackeing a womans eyes as a way of \"telling her" are posted.

if you thought that one was funny you will probably be in hysterics over this one...once again from bill

"How do you make 5 pounds of fat look good?
Put a nipple on it. "

these jokes are sexist and disrespectful, I defy anyone to explain the "good intent" displayed in the poster in questions posting them.

lets revisit som eo fthe comments from that poster and the responses

"I wouoldn't want you to get the right idea about me, yq.

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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 7:44

Although I AM disappointed you didn't pick up on the one about the woman being on too long a chain, too."

from marshall"Mrsjkun's "joke's are at best mildly droll and a lot more mean-spirited although the 2 black-eyes one of Bill's is a sicko."

" Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:00

The "black eyes" is hilarious, almost as funny as my ex mother in law telling me it was "all my fault for talking back" as I lay in a hospital bed.

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 10:06

Domestic violence is never funny.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

these jokes are sexist and disrespectful

And funny as hell!


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I'm amazed at how many passed over OM's comments. A woman tells you that she has been hospitalized as the victim of domestic violence and objects to the so-called joke... and silence.

She is much more gracious than I would ever be in her situation.


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this from demi" Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 11:04

Tempest in a teapot.

Everyone knows that Bill does not condone violence against women or that he has a poor opinion of women.

But everyone does not believe that liberals that trash God or the South feel the same.

We know the contempt held by some liberals for Christians and the South, gun owners, and anyone that does not agree with them and think like them."

Have you ever considered a career in politics demi? because how you seem to find a way to include all of your favourite beliefs in a non related thread is quite interesting.

contempt for gun owners , liberals trashing god etc etc
none of which had anything to do with the thread.

and your comments "we all know that bill does not condone violence.....or that he has a poor opinion of women"

err, how CAN we know this? you say 'everybody knows this"...why do you say that?
please note tht I accuse bill of nothing...my issue is you subtly inserting that we "know" things about anothe rposter....because you tell us it is true.

all we know of bill is what he posts.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Youngquinn,

The very fact that you are still responding = successful troll.

He even ANNOUNCED that he was posting the jokes in order to purposefully (and in no seriousness whatsoever) "dispel" the notion that he might be an ally of feminism.

And the expected posters gave the (also) expected reaction.


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all we know of bill is what he posts.

*

You know what you choose to believe based on your own agenda and perceptions, as we all do.

You're right--not everyone knows that Bill does not condone violence against women.

I happen to believe that he does not.

Either you do believe that he condones violence against women, you believe he does not, or you don't have any opinion.

I vote for another "who cares?"

Tempest in a teapot, as usual.

He told some jokes.
It's far less offensive than what others post here every day.
I give Bill the benefit of any and all doubts.

Do as you please, it matters not to me.

I imagine not to Bill, either, but that's his business.


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all we know of bill is what he posts....ad this is what he posts in reply to my comment

these jokes are sexist and disrespectful

"And funny as hell!"

no bill they are not actually funny. not at all.

Yes Nancy good point. I have just quoted Oms comment but I do take your point that I did not offer any compassion to her.

that was unforgivealbe. I am sorry Ohio Mom. Please accept my apology. To speak of this publicly must have been difficult and then to be ignored must have added insult to injury.
I am sorry


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RE: Most W4omen Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Hammilton In my view its OK to respond to trollish/boorish comments ...its only not Ok to lose your temper with them

Demi....still trying out for politics hey? and thank you for admiiting your error that the comments you made only referred to your own belief.

define "perception" for me if you will be so kind.

my beliefs are based on fact, my agenda? to expose hypocracy


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I'm tired and have to make gumbo and bean soup tonight to take to my inlaws.

Therefore, I'm not interested in defining "perception" for you.
I therefore suggest that you use whatever dictionary your little heart desires and go with that.

Games aren't my game these days, youngquinn.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Hammilton In my view its OK to respond to trollish/boorish comments ...its only not Ok to lose your temper with them

Of course it's OK to respond to trollish comments. That's the whole point of someone trolling. Otherwise it wouldn't be a successful troll.

In order to successfully troll, you need to get fish to swallow the bait, which he did.

Bill always said he was quite the fisherman, now I believe him. I just watched him reel in enough fish to fill the boat... and that was AFTER he announced to the fish that he was throwing the line out there.


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just trying to understand where you are coming from demi...and to see if your understanding of the word is the same as mine.
I dont require the dictionary...just testing your understanding .


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no bill they are not actually funny. not at all.

Right. Read the posts immediately following my posting them. You have no sense of humor.

OM-- this in no way advocates or rationalizes what happened to you. In the past, I've been known to get into the face of someone raising his hands to a woman I didn't even know (this has happened several times). These jokes were posted to be comically offensive, and it seems it hit the mark.


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RE: Most Wome4n Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Of course he was going for a reaction....but so what?

there is no justification for posting that garbage.....to say "oh I was just seenig how many suckers I could reel in...or people I could upset...is a nonsense.

do you think Hammilton that any man who has respect for women would post those?
That is what I wanted to show.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

HG, perhaps you can explain to all of us about not responding:

The "black eyes" is hilarious, almost as funny as my ex mother in law telling me it was "all my fault for talking back" as I lay in a hospital bed.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I did, as soon as I saw it.

do you think Hammilton that any man who has respect for women would post those?

In fact, I DO respect women, just as much as I do men. I just don't respect you.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

HG, perhaps you can explain to all of us about not responding:

Explain what? For me not responding to her statement?

Or for everyone else not responding to her?


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RE: Most Wo5men Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

"Right. Read the posts immediately following my posting them. You have no sense of humor.

OM-- this in no way advocates or rationalizes what happened to you. "
i BEG TO DIFFER, OF COURSE IT DOES !!

You are right about one thing BV I have no sense of humour whatsoever about domestic violence. IT IS NOT A SUBJECT OF HUMOUR


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RE: M4ost Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

from BV "In fact, I DO respect women, just as much as I do men. I just don't respect you."

I do not understand
if , as you say you do respect women....just not me.

then why did you post the jokes?

Were they about ME(in that case) being given 2 black eyes?
please explain how you can respect women , be against domestic violence yet find jokes about vilolence to women "funny as hell" ?
edited for typos

This post was edited by youngquinn on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 22:49


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

HG, thanks for missing the point.

The responses to the so-called joke about domestic violence aren't prompted from a knee-jerk reaction; some of us have been victims, or have friends and family who have been victims of domestic violence.

Silence = consent.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

HG, thanks for missing the point.

Your welcome?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Silence = consent.

Right. HG, either you get on my a$$ about this, or you love women being beat up. Nanner nanner.

Well, I got the reaction I was looking for. Nancy, you and yours are so predictable.


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RE: Most Wom44en Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

"Well, I got the reaction I was looking for. Nancy, "

question what sort of person uses jokes about domestic violence to "get the reaction he was looking for"...and then says this
"from BV "In fact, I DO respect women, just as much as I do men. I just don't respect you."

please explain how you can respect women , be against domestic violence yet find jokes about vilolence to women "funny as hell" ?

if you respect all otehr women than me...and you were looking for a reaction....can we then surmise taht these jokes were posted with the direct intention of causing offense to myself?


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RE: Most Women Would R5ather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

and nancys comments to HG were a question as to why , once it was pointed out , she made no comment to OM regarding her being a victim of domestic violence.

Do you really see everything on this topic as being about YOU?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Right. HG, either you get on my a$$ about this, or you love women being beat up.

Ahhh... I get it now.

I thought I was being asked to explain myself for not extending my sympathies to Ohiomom. I was wondering why an explanation was being demanded from me but nobody else. Or if I was supposed to explain to everyone why nobody was extending their sympathies.

Kind of felt like grade school, when the teacher asks you to explain to the class why you didn't bring enough gum for everyone... wasn't sure what answer she was looking for.

Silence = consent.

So Nancy, when Maddie starts telling everyone not to respond to the trolls, is she going to get this same speech? Will you demand that she explain her silence? Or does this only apply to me?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I am confused. Why are women beating up on women and claiming male abuse is humourous?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I am confused. Why are women beating up on women and claiming male abuse is humourous?


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RE: 444Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

"I thought I was being asked to explain myself for not extending my sympathies to Ohiomom. I was wondering why an explanation was being demanded from me but nobody else. Or if I was supposed to explain to everyone why nobody was extending their sympathies. "

Hammilton , you were .

I am surmising that Nancy asked you as you were the only one who did not apologise or make comment , to Om , who has posted after nancys comment alerting us to our insensitivity (for which I am gratefull)

I have checke d back and I find that demi also falls into this category


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RE: M33ost Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

marshall no women are beating up on women in this thread. I have respect for nancy and hammilton both. and great repect for OM s courage.

You will recall that even kjun said the jokes were not to her taste.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

YQ, I was going to answer your post, but you're just not worth it, and you're getting boring.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Whose on first.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Hammilton , you were .

I dunno, I think Nancy indicated that wasn't her point.

Either way, there is a lot of things said on this forum which I haven't extended my sympathies for. Dead or dying relatives, sick pets, domestic violence, mental illnesses, personal tragedies...

I think, and I may be wrong, that most people post something like that to create background context for their statement, not to try to drum up sympathy for themselves. To have 20 followup sypathy posts both draws unwanted attention to that person as well as clouding the initial point that they were discussing. Most people have very similar stories... we all understand that but not everyone needs to post their own story.

Some people absolutely, in fact some on this forum, DO post things like that for the attention and sympathy it creates for them. But I really, truly, do not believe that was Ohiomom's intent.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

@bill_vincent -

Do you have a bunch of racist and disrespectful jokes about blacks that are funny as hell?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Give it a rest or take a long rest


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

You can choose to answer or not , but the questions remain out there;..

Well, I got the reaction I was looking for. Nancy, "


please explain how you can respect women , be against domestic violence yet find jokes about vilolence to women "funny as hell" ?

what sort of a person does that?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

@bill_vincent -
Do you have a bunch of racist and disrespectful jokes about blacks that are funny as hell?

Factoman, you're getting to be pretty boring, as well. Asked and answered. Scroll up. You don't even have to get out of your chair to do it! What a concept!


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

bill_vincent wrote,

Factoman, you're getting to be pretty boring, as well. Asked and answered. Scroll up. You don't even have to get out of your chair to do it! What a concept!

My apologies, Bill -- I didn't see the earlier reply. My mistake.

Surely you know some racist jokes about blacks that you could post that you find funny? You wouldn't have any problem doing that because you respect blacks, so there would be no harm, right?

You wouldn't think there's anything wrong with posting racist jokes if the poster isn't really a racist, would you? I would be very interested in a direct, honest answer.

While I have you, will you be issuing a correction to your claim that Feinstein has a carry permit and exercises it?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Gee no one made a comment about the fact that I was the victim of domestic abuse at the hands of my first dh. But then I'm a conservative, so I probably deserved it right? Oh the hypocrisy that call them selves liberals. OM and I are probably two of the strongest women on here, and I know she will understand why.

And I still maintain that bills intent was never to denigrate anyone. And the joke was simply used as a club to pound him by some.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

You wouldn't think there's anything wrong with posting racist jokes if the poster isn't really a racist, would you? I would be very interested in a direct, honest answer.

When I was a kid, I knew plenty of racist jokes about ALL nationalities. It was just the way it was. Pretty much along the same lines as cutting down a friend's mother just to get a rise. Not the same any more. As for the jokes I posted about women-- more than once I've been called a misogynist in here. After the post I posted about my wife's and my relationship, I'd just had someone forward these jokes to me in my email, and I posted them with the comment that this would keep my reputation intact. Those who know me, took it for what it was. Those who wanted to be offended, were, just as expected. As I've stated many times in this thread-- everything came out exactly as expected. The one that really makes me laugh is young quinn making personally all about her, which is so typical. My reputation's intact. Now, you can make of that what you wish.

While I have you, will you be issuing a correction to your claim that Feinstein has a carry permit and exercises it?

Why should I? It's a true claim, as far as I can discern, or I wouldn't have made it. I even just checked snopes-- nothing there that I can find one way or the other.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

Why should I? It's a true claim, as far as I can discern, or I wouldn't have made it. I even just checked snopes-- nothing there that I can find one way or the other.

I think what Facto is trying to say is that Feinstein USED to have a carry permit and exercised it... but not anymore.

He wants you to apologize and issue the correction that you should have used past tense.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 9:54

I sure do not need sympathy (just re-checked this thread and had no idea what had happened since) ... you are right MrsK, what does not kill us makes us stronger. I just wish the other women who did not survive at the hands of domestic abuse could say the same.

OT but like my comments about "a dream come true" for the 2nd Amenders ... they have one of their own her out there fighting tyranny. So why were some so upset with me? It was even suggested a "movie" be made on Dorner.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

" ...but Im a conservative so I probably deserved it right? Oh the hypocrisy that calls themselves liberals."

That strikes me as a deeply insulting statement to make about any group at all, especially any group of women, Mrsk.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

If the shoe fits mylab. I have seen conservative women trashed on this forum by women who like to call themselves feminists. Being a true feminist means one can accept any choice a woman makes about her life and her body, not trash her because she isn't a liberal, and doesn't think like a liberal.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

mylab,

Probably no more insulting than the scenario she is talking about.

Two women both state they were victims of domestic abuse, one liberal and one conservative. Calls go out for others to express sympathy for the one, while the other is ignored.

Silence=consent?


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

HG, msk chided Ohiomom by saying some women were just looking to take offense.

Scroll up and find the comments.

Addio


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

No mrsk, Im talking about that very specific statement you made, as quoted above, Im not talking about the topic of feminism.

No. The shoe does not fit and I would request that you stop insinuating that it does.

I find the remark offensive and personally directed. If you choose to allow the statement to stand as it does under your name, then so be it. Its your choice.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

See, I read that differently. I read that she would never condone domestic violence, but related that she did not believe that Bill condoned violence towards women. She also stated that there are some people who are trying to find any word or sentence to turn into a weapon.

As you just demonstrated with your post about her.


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

"The one that really makes me laugh is young quinn making personally all about her, which is so typical."
reading conprehension bill.

You saY
1) you respect all women (except me)
2) you say you are against domestic violence against women
3)you find jokes about domestic violence against women to be "funny as hell"

therefore as I am the only woman you dont respect I asked you if that meant the joke was about me.

simply applying logic.

and you say "those that know me took it for what it was"

but even kjun said they wewre not to her taste

you said up a few posts ago that "These jokes were posted to be comically offensive, and it seems it hit the mark."

bill being comically offensive about domestic violence is impossible.

domestic violence is not funny , ever.

I ask again , what sort of man would find a joke about a woman with 2 black eyes from being "told" twice funny?
and what sort of man would post it in a forum where he knew his "jokes" would be offensive to the women that would read it?

what sort of man?

as far as Kjun....I did not read this whole thread again so I didnt come across your comment. I extend the same apology to you tht I did to OM. I am sorry for your abuse at the hands of your previous husband.

"I am a conservative so I probably deserved it"this comment is unworthy of you


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RE: Most Women Would Rather Divorce Than Be a Housewife

I am sorry OM and Msk were abused which is why the joke offended me.

I like Bill we do not agree on most things but he has been reasonable in our disagreements. I just do not like jokes that offend women, gays, race, children etc. As I said before I think it minimizes the acts. The person posting the joke may be the most upstanding citizen in the world but by contributing to the offense as funny makes offenders think it is okay after all it is funny. That was my point.

I have never been abused but I have seen women in those situations and maybe being a woman I took it personal and it made me feel like it happened to me.

OT.....Bill I have a floor problem. Small powder room. Floor 3" not level. What would you level with floor leveler or cement? Marble tile flooring going down.


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