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Grad School For Crime

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 9:45

Grad School For Crime
[lifted from Andrew Sullivan's blog]

That would be prison, according to sociology professor Donald T. Hutcherson II, who mined data from the US government's National Longitudinal Survey of Youth:

Included in the survey are questions about how much money individuals make legally and illegally. Because the survey also ascertains whether people have spent time in prison, Hutcherson pored through data from tens of thousands of queries to a large number of young people to establish whether illegal earnings went up or down after individuals served time.

If prison reformed criminals, illegal earnings once people were released ought to have gone down. But if prison was a "finishing school" for criminals, illegal earnings after serving time should have increased. "Spending time in prison leads to increased criminal earnings," Hutcherson says. "On average, a person can make roughly $11,000 more [illegally] from spending time in prison versus a person who does not spend time in prison."

Here is a link that might be useful: When Crime Pays: Prison Can Teach Some To Be Better Criminals


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Grad School For Crime

Instead of rehabilitation, the end result is criminalization. (for some)

It makes sense for a former inmate to seek out those involved in crime since crime is the biggest thing happening in the prison environment.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

The only problem with the idea being... only those who aren't up to par get caught. How much of an education can one get from sub-par teachers?

But, it's true that our prison system is not set up to rehabilitate criminals. It's only set up to house them. It's just another of our wonderful systems that's either broken or nonfunctional.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

jodik wrote,

But, it's true that our prison system is not set up to rehabilitate criminals. It's only set up to house them. It's just another of our wonderful systems that's either broken or nonfunctional.

Clarence Darrow gave this tremendously thought-provoking address to the inmates at Cook County Jail in Chicago.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

"The only way to cure these conditions is by equality."(Clarence Darrow)


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RE: Grad School For Crime

More apt... "... a jail is an evidence of the lack of charity of the people on the outside who make the jails and fill them with the victims of their greed."


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RE: Grad School For Crime

jodik"""""But, it's true that our prison system is not set up to rehabilitate criminals. It's only set up to house them."

I agree that there need to be some changes in prisons but I would like to ask a question and I am serious. I get the feeling that the majority believe prisons should rehab prisoners but do you think it's possible to rehab all prisoners ........ie Manson, Dommer, Richard Speck, etc? Also, do any of you believe that prisons should also be a place of punishment for breaking the law, especially in brutal murders and such? If so, what kind of punishment..........big screen TV's, Gyms, Libraries, Computers, Classes, what? To me, the man who recently brutally murdered his daughter and tried to kill his son or the guy who killed his girlfriend then her son and daughter, put them in a suit case and threw them into a canal...........other than being locked up why should they have the same services offered to them for free in prison as we have outside. Just curious. I do feel there should be a, how do I put it, maybe class separation. Different levels of offenses and people housed according to those levels to protect some of the criminals with less violent crimes????????? Such as putting an eighteen year who got caught with drugs in with a hardened criminal with numerous violations.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Great zinger in the preface:

"Some of my good friends have insisted that while my theories are true, I should not have given them to the inmates of a jail.

Realizing the force of the suggestion that the truth should not be spoken to all people, I have caused these remarks to be printed on rather good paper and in a somewhat expensive form. In this way the truth does not become cheap and vulgar, and is only placed before those whose intelligence and affluence will prevent their being influenced by it."


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RE: Grad School For Crime

If our society operated on the idea that we help those with problems, we wouldn't have overflowing prisons that pump out deeper hardened criminals.

The real questions are... why do people resort to stealing, harming others, drinking or taking drugs, or other crimes? Why? What causes people to do these things?

Housing criminals without treating them or rehabilitating them is a huge waste of humanity. It's very sad how we treat our elderly, our poverty stricken, our troubled citizens... what does that say about our society?


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Chicago has the answers. thats the place where over 4o% of those who commit gun crimes walk w/o serving time, 33% are never charged and one who pointed a gun at a police officer wasnt even arrested.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

FF, where are you getting these figures you so easily throw around to support your arguments about guns in Chicago, the city that has laws limiting gun ownership? And exactly how does this relate to the OP that prisons are graduate schools for training criminals?


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Marshall, , comes from a Chicago cop. You can see her on her web pages. Google "Womens Tactical Association". Nice looking gal, especially when wearing her MSR.

Chicago doesnt punish criminals nor rehab em, they warehouse them in ghettos.They wont take away their illegal guns, that costs money. They let em go free to kill reach other, maybe a cost saving and statistic to use against lawful gun owners. Just seems that way anyhow

This post was edited by fancifowl on Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 21:40


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RE: Grad School For Crime

You sound a little bit wild there, FF.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

at near 66, not so much these days.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Hah! Just a kid, just as I thought. ;)


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Hahahahaha...teach 'em a thing or two, Marshall.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

I don't live anywhere near Chicago, so I couldn't say how their court system treats offenders. Overall, I'd have to say our nation doesn't treat offenders or prisoners as it should.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Retribution, not rehabilitation, has long been the aim of penal systems. It's a liberal fantasy that prisons out to uplift the character of its inmates.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

jodik"""""""""Overall, I'd have to say our nation doesn't treat offenders or prisoners as it should."

Not trying to argue here jodik, just trying to get opinions, which no one else seems to want to give. What changes do you feel could/should be made in our prison system to improve them. Do you think that all criminals can be rehabbed? Do you think there should be "classifications" of criminals deciding who can/can't possibly be rehabbed keeping the lessor offenders from mingling with the hardened criminals, cold blooded murderers and such?

It seems to me, that too many times offenders sentenced for say burglary or robbery and who could possibly be rehabbed come out of prison worse than when they went in from association with those beyond rehabilitation; which seems to be basically what the thread is about.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Too many behaviors have been criminalized at the same time the overworked "justice system" has been saddled with politically motivated tough rules like mandatory sentencing. Due to overcrowding of court dockets, most criminal cases are plea-bargained down to lesser charges, often of minor status. So a young person is sentenced to a minor felony to a prison with a hardened veteran of criminal activities. The younger newbie is thrown in with a career criminal and often soon part of prison gangs, if not already a member on the outside. The younger prisoner discovers that competing gangs rule most State prisons.

What to do? Solitary confinement for all with one hour a day in the yard? Current prisons, even minimum security ones and county jails, are not set up for rehabilitation nor are consistent fundings and staffings assured for such programs.

Where is Steve? Gone already to Costa Rica? He spent 7 years as a prison guard.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

we have a womens prison in the nearby town. Never guess what it was prior? It was The Polish Alliance Collge!!!
There are women in there with a long sentence for murder. They killed their man to save their own lives, thats a punishable offense, but is it a crime? there are some really bad girls there to and some for drug offenses. Gotta be a better way.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

There are better ways... but any ideas require the fixing of society and the broken social contract, as it were... something no one seems to want to do... not on any large scale. It's more profitable to hold the status quo.


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Prisoners


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Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 7:28

I don't live anywhere near Chicago, so I couldn't say how their court system treats offenders. Overall, I'd have to say our nation doesn't treat offenders or prisoners as it should.

*

How should it treat them?


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RE: Grad School For Crime

We have some relatives that have claimed to be "Better Criminals" after serving time.

Post release, some made more money short-term, however they're in and out of jail since they're not skilled/smart enough not to get caught.

If you want to learn how to be a successful criminal, you certainly don't want to learn from people that weren't skilled enough or smart enough not to get caught, especially inmates that have been arrested multiple times.

Much behavior has been criminalized, but many serve time since the knowledge and skills of criminals haven't kept up with the technology used to prevent, detect and prosecute crime.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

Most petty criminals seem to get caught in the end but may operate for a long time before caught. Many white collar criminals often escape serious jail time, making such crimes worth the possible penalties. When we think of prisons, we think of the former class of cons, perhaps a harder class of felons who might have moved from burglary to robbery. More often than not, jails are loaded with drug offenders.

Talk of rehabilitation must address these myriad of criminals.


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RE: Grad School For Crime

We've never known a drug offender that served time that didn't commit other crimes - theft, home/auto break-ins, vandalism, shoplifting.

That's the short list. Many are delinquent in child support, have unpaid fines, assault charges, charges of possession of illegal firearms etc in addition to drug and theft charges.

Many crimes are criminal vs criminal and poor vs poor, so they're unreported.


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