Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Public safety drones

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 10:32

The Department of Homeland Security is advancing its plan to use surveillance drones for “public safety” applications, announcing last week that it had received a deluge of “excellent” responses from potential vendors and was set to carry out more tests of the technology.

New testing of spy drones for “public safety” applications has been rubber stamped by the DHS. Image: YouTube
As we first reported in July last year, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano told a House Committee on Homeland Security that the federal agency was “looking at drones that could be utilized to give us situational awareness in a large public safety [matter] or disaster,” despite the fact that the agency had previously indicated it was reticent to use spy drones to keep tabs on the public.
This was followed by a “market research” announcement in September that confirmed the DHS was exploring a “Robotic Aircraft for Public Safety” (RAPS) project, and was asking small unmanned aerial systems (SUAS) vendors to take part.
In an update posted on the FedBizOpps website last week (PDF), the federal agency announced that, “Vendor response to our Request for Information (RFI), Number: DHS 13-01, on small unmanned aircraft systems (SUAS) was excellent and included the submission of over 70 white papers.”
The announcement added that a small number of the submissions would now be participating in the “first phase of assessments” for the technology in 2013 and 2014. The DHS refuses to specify which proposals were accepted and for what reasons.
Initial testing of robotic spy drones for “public safety” applications was conducted by the DHS’ Science and Technology directorate at Fort Sill, Oklahoma last year.
As Wired Magazine reported, the DHS is pursuing lightweight spy drones that can fly for two hours at a time, but it is also interested in military-style drones fitted with cameras that can spy on up to four square miles at a time.
As we reported last week, the ARGUS-IS surveillance camera system, developed by BAE Systems in conjunction with DARPA, has the capability to track every moving object across an area of 15 square miles, or a medium-sized city ��" and could be fitted to unmanned drones that can stay airborne for years at a time.
The DHS is already using another type of airborne drone surveillance, also utilized to track insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq, for the purposes of “emergency and non-emergency incidents” within the United States.
Experts predict that there will be 30,000 surveillance drones in American skies by 2020 following a bill passed last year by Congress that permits the use of unmanned aerial spy vehicles on domestic soil.
Last week, a Federal Aviation Administration official told a conference in Northern Virginia that unmanned surveillance drones deployed in US airspace would not be armed with missiles.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Public safety drones

I'm currently searching for investors for a business that will use them for inspection. Almost all of Europe and parts of Asia are using small UAVs for this purpose, including engineering firms in America with branches in Europe and Canada.

The backlash in the Merkin public is, IMHO, part of a reaction to what we foolishly allowed post 9-11 with Heimat Sekuritat department and being duped by Orange Alert!!!! and all the other stuff.

Verizon is selling drones with video cameras right now. You get a flyer in your newspaper once a month with one for sale.

We must actually be vigilant for once in our lives and limit the po-po from having these. Because surely they will abuse them. Guaranteed.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 10:52

"public safety"

Bridges and swamp land


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 10:55

"Last week, a Federal Aviation Administration official told a conference in Northern Virginia that unmanned surveillance drones deployed in US airspace would not be armed with missiles."

Well that's certainly reassuring... light arms then?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

High speed drone chases on CNN!
If they are really souped up with 1200 MM telephoto lenses patched into facial recognition soft wear now your cooking with gas.
All over lower Manhattan has been under continued surveillance for years and most of the technologies capabilities has never been shown to the public.

They'll probably sell it on an AMBER ALERT pitch. Scare the American Parent you can pitch almost anything from drones to tax cuts!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

This is disconcerting, but not surprising.

This is what happens when the government is allowed and encouraged to be the panacea for every social and economic ill.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

This is what happens when the government is allowed and encouraged to be the panacea for every social and economic ill.

That wasn't the best comedy. That joke needs some work before it goes into the routine.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

No, this is government fulfilling that primary duty that 'conservatives' see fit, keeping the homeland "safe". Military, law enforcement, border enforcement, and homeland security from terr-ists.

Gossiping with a gardening buddy, it seems I have neighbor who flies drones up the streams in Idaho to count spawning salmon.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

it seems I have neighbor who flies drones up the streams in Idaho to count spawning salmon.

Still not legal for commercial use until next year. Ssssh.

But that is the sort of thing to which these things will bring a lot of value.

The po-po peeping on people? Not so much. Wait until the next anti-war protest - you think the po-po won't be righteously turning over their HD video to Heimat Sekuritat?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 12:15

Many posters have defended the use of drones on this forum, and now they are "coming to a homeland near you".

Many posters have defended the military police state against unarmed protesters, and now it is "coming to a community near you".


Finger pointing at one political party? Poppycock!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

That's right OMom....some posters need to remove the blindfolds.

There are many liberal cheerleaders on the Drone Kill Team.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Many posters have defended the use of drones on this forum, and now they are "coming to a homeland near you".

Not the same thing.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 12:37

"blindfolds"

And there are many conservative cheerleaders, which I am sure you meant to mention my friend and where the "first strike" came from.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Verizon sells drones already. They aren't big enough to carry Hellfires or even a Glock. This is happening near David's house, a Mesa Co Sheriff:

Seattle Police were told to back down by the Mayor because they failed to put rules and limits in place (WTO memories). The point is our po-po need to be kept in control - small towns have SWAT teams - and we need to have a rational discussion about this. Saying an aircraft with a 2000g payload is going to carry guns isn't the way to limit police spying.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Wait until the next anti-war protest - you think the po-po won't be righteously turning over their HD video to Heimat Sekuritat?

LAPD already sends out officers to film protestors; they don't try to hide it. We smile, mug, and hug for the camera.

Know your rights.
You have the right to freeeee
Speech as long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Free Speech is cool as long as you're not on the public sidewalk.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I know more than a few activists gearing up to use drones to film police during protests. These quadcopters go for $300 and can send video straight to an Ipad or upload to youtube.

Here is a link that might be useful: trolling cops with drones


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I forgot about the cops taking people's cameras while filming police activities on public property. About a million reasons to limit their ability on this issue.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

So you want your helicopters with cameras to have people in them? I keep hearing it that way.
It amazes there can't be a discussion, a rational one that requests legality spelled out please I like to see mine on paper. The notion that if you don;t denounce the use of drone s as war crimes & that you ask the Congress to roll back it's AUMF yoru some how in support of them is the kind of crap that play out on here.
No logic no progression. Just the same old.
Now is it okfor helicopters to fly around with cameras in them if so tell me where is the difference beyond paranoia or an unwillingness to make law enforcement play by a new set of rules (good luck with that) I noticed quite a few folks did not mind the use of sonic crowd dispersing weapons for OCCUPY WALL STREET events.

Oh their bad
i hope you don;t mean me Brush I've said it before countless times I'm not a liberal. I will support the US military use of drones until the law international & otherwise says once & for all they are a no no.

Hey I can see your IP address & house form here. Thanks Google
Well of course I'm not allowed to post it because I received a warning a year ago that it's a forum no no.

Again there were in 2005 4,176 surveilance cameras below 14th Street, an area about one-sixth the size of the island.
You folks just mind if they fly!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I happened to notice smallish cameras mounted on arching street signs and on traffic lights in Santa Monica last Saturday. SM hasn't had the traffic-ticket red-light-runners cameras, so I guess they're for surveillance. Aggressive pedestrians?

- - - - - - - - - -

I did some checking and supposedly the cameras are to allow for better analysis of traffic flow and problems. I haven't been very observant.

Santa Monica CCTV, Video Detection Camera Network Expands


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Britain made their first drone assisted arrest in 2010.
Found a car thief hiding under a bush. OHHHHH! It has a kind of Luddite feel to it married to anti government paranoia both left & right should invest in Alcoa hats!

PEEKABOO I SEE YOU!

Traffic Cameras anyone?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I wonder if the 2nd amendment covers stinger missiles.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I am with Joe on the drones. I see it as technology at work. The gun debates have made me appreciate the drones even more. If there needs to be a few gun loving shooters I say "drone their butts".

When I see a group fighting background checks we need help and the drones are starting to sound good.

We do not have a government that have the guts to vote for back ground checks....... we will need advanced police protection. Bring on the drones.

Joe Hey I can see your IP address & house form here. Thanks Google

I have to work on doing that search.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Do I have a right to public privacy? Well as a photographer I say no. Your in range of my shot I'll take your picture I can't use it for commercial purposes without your picture..
All of you surrender your privacy on these sites every day there are tracing cookies all over the place
If I ride the subways I agree to have my bag searched, If I go to the airport I'm also under surveillance. K Marts their surveillance on and on it goes.

This is a list of surveillance Cameras for community Board 2 I walk through it to work every day.

10th Street between Broadway and University Place:
2 rotational cameras, north side

10th Street and 5th Avenue:
2 stationary camera

10th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues:
1 stationary camera, south side

11th Street between University Place and Broadway:
1 stationary camera, east side

11th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues:
3 stationary cameras, 2 north side, 1 south side

12th Street between Broadway and 4th Avenue:
2 stationary cameras, north side

12th Street between 5th Avenue and University Place:
1 stationary camera, north side

12th Street and 5th Avenue:
1 stationary camera, SE corner

12th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues:
4 stationary cameras, 3 on south side,
1 on north side, and 2 globe cameras, north side.

13th between University Place and Broadway:
1 stationary camera, south side, and
1 rotational camera, north side

Lafayette Street between Howard and Canal Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

Canal and Varick Streets:
1 stationary camera

Thompson Street between Canal and Grand Streets:
5 rotating cameras

Hester Street and Bowery:
1 stationary camera, north side

Grand Street between Varick Street and 6th Avenue:
3 stationary cameras

Watts Street between Sixth Avenue and Varick Street:
2 stationary cameras, north side

Mercer Street between Grand and Broome Streets:
3 stationary cameras, west side

Broome and Mulberry Street:
3 stationary cameras

Broome Street between Lafayette and Centre Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Broome Street between Lafayette and Crosby Streets:
2 stationary cameras, 1 north side, 1 south side

Broome and Thompson Streets:
1 stationary camera

Kenmare Street between Cleveland Place
and Mulberry Street:
1 stationary camera

Lafeyette Street between Kenmare and Spring Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

Crosby Street between Spring and Broome Streets:
2 stationary cameras, east side

Hudson Street between Spring and Dominick Streets:
1 stationary camera

Renwick Street between Spring and Canal Streets:
1 stationary camera

Spring Street between Mott and Elizabeth Streets:
2 stationary cameras, south side

Hudson Street between Vandam and Spring Streets:
2 stationary cameras, 1 east side, 1 west side

Greenwich Street between Spring and Vandam Streets:
2 stationary cameras

Washington Street between Spring and Houston Streets:
1 globe camera, 2 stationary cameras

West Street between Houston and Spring Streets:
3 stationary cameras

Varick and Vandam Streets: 2 stationary cameras

Vandam Street between Hudson and Varick Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Vandam Street between Hudson and Greenwich Streets
, 2 stationary cameras

Hudson Street between Charlton and Vandam Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

Greenwich Street between Vandam and Charlton Streets:
1 stationary camera

Charlton Street between Varick and Hudson Streets:
1 rotational camera

King Street between Hudson and Varick Streets:
2 stationary cameras

King and Hudson Streets:
1 globe camera

King Street between Greenwich and Hudson Streets:
1 stationary camera

Houston and Lafayette Streets:
1 stationary camera, NE corner

Houston Street between Varick Street and 6th Avenue:
1 stationary camera

Houston Street between Hudson and Greenwich Streets:
1 globe camera

Houston and Greenwich Streets:
1 rotational camera

Washington and Houston Streets:
1 rotational camera

Houston Street between West and Washington Streets:
2 stationary cameras

Greenwich Street between Clarkson and Houston Streets:
1 rotational camera, east side

Mott and Bleeker Streets:
4 stationary cameras, SE corner

Lafayette Street between Bond and Bleeker Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

Clarkson Street between Hudson and Greenwich Streets:
1 rotational camera, south side

Clarkson Street between West and Washington Streets:
2 stationary cameras, north side

Greenwich Street between Clarkson and Leroy Streets:
2 stationary cameras, west side

Leroy and Bleeker Streets:
1 stationary camera, SE corner

Leroy Street between Greenwich and Hudson Street:
5 rotational cameras

Greenwich Street between Morton and Leroy Streets:
1 stationary camera, east side

Morton Street between Greenwich and Washington Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Morton Street between West and Washington Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Hudson and Grove Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

7th Ave South between Charles and Waverly Streets:
2 stationary cameras

Charles Street between West and Washington Streets:
2 stationary cameras

Perry Street between West and Washington Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Washington Street between Perry and
West 11th Streets:
1 stationary camera

Washington Street between Bank and Bethune Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

Washington and Bethune Streets:
1 stationary camera

Jane Street between West and Washington Street:
1 stationary camera, south side

Horatio Street between Washington and West Streets:
1 globe camera

Greenwich Street between Horatio and Gansevoort Streets:
1 stationary camera, east side

Washington Street between Gansevoort
and Little W 12th Streets:
1 stationary camera, west side

West Street between Little W 12th and
Gansevoort Streets:
1 stationary camera

3rd Street and Broadway:
1 stationary camera, SW corner

3rd Street and LaGuardia Place:
1 stationary camera, NE corner

Greene and 4th Streets:
1 stationary camera, NW corner

4th and Grove Street:
3 stationary cameras

Mercer Street and Washington Place:
2 stationary cameras, NE corner

Greene Street and Washington Place:
1 stationary camera

Washington Square West and Washington Square South:
1 globe camera on lamppost, NE corner

Washington Square East and Washington Square South:
1 globe camera on lamppost, NE corner

Washington Place and Washington Square East:
1 globe camera on a lamppost, west side,
1 stationary camera, east side 

Washington Square North and Washington Square East:
1 globe camera on a lamppost, NW corner

5th Avenue and Washington Square North:
1 globe camera on a lamppost, south side

Washington Square West and Washington Square North:
1 globe on a lamppost, SW corner

Washington Square West and Washington Place:
1 globe camera on a lamppost, 2 globe cameras, SW corner

Washington Square Park:
3 globe cameras

Washington Square South and Thompson Street:
1 globe camera on lamppost, SW corner

8th Street and Broadway:
1 stationary camera, NW corner

Broadway between 8th and 9th Streets:
2 stationary cameras, east side

Greenwich Street between 10th and
Christopher Streets:
1 stationary camera

Broadway and 10th Street:
3 stationary cameras, NW corner

6th Avenue and 10th Street:
1 stationary camera, SE corner

Greenwich Street between 10th and Charles Streets:
1 stationary camera

11th Street and 6th Avenue:
1 stationary camera, NE corner

11th Street between West and Washington Streets:
1 stationary camera, south side

Waverly Place between Bank and 11th Street:
1 globe camera, east side

7th Avenue between 11th and 12th Streets:
1 stationary camera

12th Street between 6th and 7th Avenues:
1 stationary camera

12th Street between 4th Street and 8th Avenue:
2 stationary cameras

12th Street between Greenwich and 4th Street:
1 stationary camera, north side

12th Street between Greenwich and Hudson Streets:
2 stationary cameras, south side

12th Street between West and Washington Streets:
1 stationary camera, north side

Little W 12th Street between
Wahington and West Streets:
1 stationary camera

13th Street and Broadway:
1 stationary cameras, SE corner

13th Street between West and Washington Streets:
5 stationary cameras

9th Avenue between 13th and 14th Streets:
1 stationary camera

10th Avenue between 13th and 14th Streets:
1 stationary cameras

Washington Street between 13th and 14th Streets:
1 stationary camera

14th Street between Washington Street
and 9th Avenue:
1 stationary camera

West Street:
4 stationary cameras
at Department of Sanitation Building


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 21:48

Marquest you are saying you are okay with "drone killing" on US Soil? You do know more than the "bad guys" will die right? This is not precise killing where a single target is taken out. You are okay with innocents dying along with the bad guys?

Wow


 o
RE: Public safety drones

OM, I might be wrong, but I think Marquest was being tongue in cheek there. She just forgot her sarcasm tags. ;)

I think. I hope. Now you have me second guessing.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Joe brings up an interesting point - I'm writing a book right now and going around taking pictures of roofs. I've had a couple folks come out and ask if they could help me. I tell them I'm writing a book and taking pictures of this because of that and this and that, and we generally have a pleasant conversation. But usually I have to remind them I'm on public property taking a picture, so if the shot works out I'm using it and no permission required. Sometimes there is surprise, and I'm always surprised at notions of privacy.

At any rate, this isn't an excuse for the taser-wielding-on-old ladies po-po to fly little drones around everywhere looking for stoners smoking pot.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

OM come on you know me. Yes it was my attempt at gun sarcasm.

But I am serious about the drones and terrorist. I think there should be more reporting on the decision to use them for war. But as long as America has been America we have been killing and declaring war all willy nilly with one weapon or another.

Suddenly people are upset because now the bomb is being dropped on people and no one is inside the plane dropping the bomb on a family home in a country that half of America could not point to the country on a map if their life depended on it. Ask them were Benghazi is and they will probably point to Oklahoma.

Will other countries do the same to US citizens? I do not doubt they will eventually. 9/11 happened I expect another 9/11.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Suddenly people are upset because now the bomb is being dropped on people and no one is inside the plane dropping the bomb on a family home

Not suddenly, Marquest.

I think most of us were also around to decry the bombing and invasion of Iraq on this forum, and various other atrocities around the world.

This isn't something new for most of us and it certainly didn't start with unmanned aircraft dropping bombs. Please don't allude to the idea that it is.

Drone bombing just detaches people even more from the fact that they are killing human beings. And because they never report the women and children, and all males between the ages of 15 and 65 are automatically counted among the legitimate terrorist targets, we eliminate all feeling for what we are doing to other human beings.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I see 2 discussions going on here. The topic was surveillance drones.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Drone bombing just detaches people even more from the fact that they are killing human beings.

How detach do you think it is if a military Air force bomber drops a bomb 65,000 feet up? Does someone physically in side flying the plane give you the impression it is more personal?

How many times have you seen America report how many men women and children died when they dropped a bomb from a Air Force Bomber? America is what it is. It is a war machine. Actually the drones are more humane you have minimal death vs taking out a large area dropping a bomb.

Military aircraft routinely drop 500 pound bombs and even ... at an altitude of 65,000 feet. ... Fact sheets about United States Air Force missiles and bombs


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I see 2 discussions going on here. The topic was surveillance drones.

That's part of the problem right there. People see 'drone' then they see red.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

How detach do you think it is if a military Air force bomber drops a bomb 65,000 feet up?

When you can drive home to your wife and kids after a long day of bombing, it's a bit more detached. Even as a pilot, there is risk involved. From enemy attacks to an accident such as your plane or helicoptor malfunctioning. The reality of death, even their own, is there. For a drone operator, I suppose it's possible he could choke on his doughnut... but it still has that step further in detachment from the realities of war.

But, I get the idea that killing some civilians is better than killing more of them. I just wonder if people would be so understanding if it were just some American civilians being killed instead of more.

Is it worth getting comfortable with that idea? Would your reaction be different if it were American lives we were discussing?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I see 2 discussions going on here. The topic was surveillance drones.

Yes, you are correct. I was responding specifically to the post about dropping bombs, not any of the ones on surveillance drones.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

That would be terrible! Since the drones would be bombing Queens. One of the other posters claimed on another topic we didn't arrest terrorist any more.
Yes I think some (not all USIANS would object to target drone strikes)
The again that would all depend on who was in office.
I see a lot of liability lawsuits in the future as they lose control of these things


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I detest with all my being the increased loss of privacy we have experienced since using the internet became a common way of life, I guess that would be since around 1990?

We can never get that privacy back and I believe, with all my heart, that even for those who's sense of privacy is no big deal, they will pay in ways they haven't even thought of.

My choice of privacy has always been deeply important to me, I detest the loss of it. It is a deeply felt personal violation, I don't know why more people aren't out in the streets over it,

President Bush's e-mail was just hacked into and publicized. If his privacy can't be protected, who's can?

All those cameras Joe passes every day, clicking, clicking, clicking away. Does anyone think the information gathered on those cameras could not be used against a quiet, law abiding citizen? That the information captured on those cameras might not be for sale?
You think drones won't be invading your privacy in ways we cant yet imagine?

Its like a public rape, and we simply accept it as a price of life.

I honestly don't get the lack of universal outrage over the loss of common privacy.
Drones will further damage us by removing yet more control of our innate right to live, unviolated private lives.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

President Bush's e-mail was just hacked into and publicized. If his privacy can't be protected, who's can?

Hey he did it first. Can we say Patriot Act. Why should he expect his email be protected.

Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order, and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Anyone else mention the Posse Comitatus Act? Because this is a very military like action. Which would make it illegal. Not to mention it's not correct practice to go to such lengths to stop crime before it happens. It'd be like castrating peeping toms to stop them before they become rapists. It's "too much". Both strikes make public safety drones unlawful to me, at any rate.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

It's only a military action if the drones are armed.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

"Borderline" military action. It's like the principle, if someone is standing there, telling you have to "get off of the bus right now" you might or might not listen. Have that same person wear a police uniform replete with badge and sidearm, and you're absolutely going to do it. There is more to the action than the action itself.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 9:19

I'm on the slippery slope with this one. Where does it end?

I think we need a very strong and principled foundation of law, rights, protections in place before we go down this road. Drones are only tools, technology... it's humans that will abuse them if they are allowed to.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Do you have a right to privacy in public? Isn't that an oxymoron.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 9:37

"Do you have a right to privacy in public?"

Sure. We have some protections like those from illegal searches. What if a drone had heat sensing or some other imaging technologies that essentially crossed the line into "search"?

New technologies we can't even imagine now will be available very soon. We need to be mindful if we are going to go down this road.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Ok I can see that! TSA in the sky!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Major natural gas and petroleum lines as well as high power lines are already checked by manned airplanes.
The Police have helicopters for surveillance and for tracking criminals.
We need to protect subways, dams, bridges, train tracks and public gathering places to deter and hopefully prevent terrorist attacks.
I'm good with unmanned drones for surveillance of public land, our transportation system, our utility wires, pipelines, etc..


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Amazing how good a shot you can get with a 1200 MM lens from a helicopter . You can do portrait shots!
During Occupy Wall Street there were copters above for hours at a time.
I get the idea that most people are envisioning drones operating like beat cops on patrol 24/7
When I was a kid most neighborhoods had beat cops waling their beat, then they went 2 man patrol car & there was an outcry that it made the streets less safe, Then went further to single man patrol car.
The only uniforms I see with any regularity on the street are parking attendants handing out tickets trolling for cash for the city. Though the outer neighborhoods are still full of stop & frisk which is an outrage.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I guess it's unreasonable to have the reasonable expectation that armed drones won't fly above us, recording us and deciding whether we warrant closer inspection...


 o
RE: Public safety drones

What are they going to watch me weeding & pruning my roses?
By way of disclaimer I don't own any stock nor am I connected to an industry that would create or market these devices.
I'm amazed that so many livery cars have cameras & that so many drivers were murdered in the last 10 years in spite of murderers having their pictures taken. Endless videos of robberies in stores & supermarkets caught on camera how often percentage wise have they helped in solving a case?
After 9/11 Homeland security allocated funds pork to so many whistle stops to buy security cameras, Remember?

In the end it all comes down to use versus abuse.& naturally I'm reading major fears of abuse.

This post was edited by labrea on Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 17:38


 o
RE: Public safety drones

The sense I have is that the objections are generated more by the technology than surveillance per se.

In La-La land of the eternal police and news helicopters, I would welcome a less noisy technology that performs the same surveillance as the hovering and circling choppers. (My preference is for less surveillance, but that will not happen given law enforcement budgets.)

A real concern would be the number of drone crashes that have been reported. On some site tracking drones, there was a compilation of reported crashes of military drones; a collection of small notices about crash landings and take-offs. Not a number to be ignored.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

A real concern would be the number of drone crashes that have been reported.

Surveillance drones are only a couple of kg and have multiple rotors that allow them to take off vertically - also allowing them to hover and peek in your window looking for a grow op.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 17:28

Can't wait to see the dragonfly versions, maybe they'll shoot down mosquitoes?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Well when they converge on a crime scene with helicopters then there can be ooops factor! 15 years Police unions will be a thing of the past!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

WAIT TILL GORT GETS HERE!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Or Henry Hill in Goodfellas being stalked by the helicopters!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Surveillance drones are only a couple of kg

Are these now being used in the U.S.?

I've seen articles on the development of technology for insect-size drones. Something that size for surveillance is creepy. Wim Wenders and the "End of Violence" kind of creepy.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

There are the shotgun & taser ones also & those walking "big dog" drones (they look like bugs) & they never loose their balance. Great for crowd control & continuous pepper spray. They never will curse anyone out or use pejorative language though their controllers back in the police bunker may out of earshot of a hate crimes lawsuit!
Just think of the new job opportunities for maintenance & lawyers!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Cutting down on OT a disturbance out at the such and such an address send zippy the pin head drone out to see whats going on. Won't get bogged down in traffic


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Are these now being used in the U.S.?

Yes. Seattle just shut them down because the po-po were dragging their feet with rule and restriction ordinances. Vail just shut down some Realtors taking pictures of rich pepole's properties for sale (technically still illegal).

The fixed-wing I included upthread is a gas-powered that can go for 1.5 - 2.5 hrs, with a GPS that has the flight path coordinates entered before takeoff, and it just goes, then comes back and lands when done. The Verizon link I included above is to a Parrot that goes for about 20-25 mins; I recently saw one fly on a show my wife likes.

There are a lot of laid-off engineers around the world tinkering. The commercial applications will be legion, which is why it is important to but boundaries on the cops now.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Dano, do you remember when Iran was displaying a U.S. drone that was downed in its territory? There was reasoned speculation that Iran was able to gain control of the drone and made it land. I may be confusing articles that I read around that time, but I think there was a case made for Iran's (or anyone for that matter) exploiting a weakness inherent in the GPS. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And isn't there still the virus infecting the drones out of Creech that the military hasn't been able to eliminate nor figure out what it does, if anything.

Reports of China trying to hack U.S. systems.

So much reliance on technology that may contain bugs / flaws / weaknesses to be exploited. I wonder if some of these advanced surveillance vehicles will be exploited by those that are supposed to be watched. What's to stop a drug cartel from using surveillance drones to track DEA / ICE agents. Sometimes it feels as if we're living after the opening of Pandora's technological box.

Any thoughts?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

nancy, my brain is a little cooked these days from the book so I might miss something, but I'd argue that a government wanting to get its hands on a 1000kg plane with advanced electronics and radar-invisible skin (maybe) might warrant much effort. A 5kg rotary craft with 32gb of memory and max $2000 worth of electronics (marked up to 9000 for sale to the government) isn't the same thing.

Heimat Sekuritat might beef up something for a 6-7 kg payload for infrared detection and maybe chemical sniffing (meth). But it won't be radar-invisible for a decade (unless Heimat Sekuritat goes crazy with our tax money). So if you want to bring something down that flies on its own (or maybe guided by electronics from nearby), I guess you can spend the money to get a few thousand worth of electronics, but why not just buy them outright?

That is: the lure here for the po-po peeping on your peeps is that the platform is cheap and light and (relatively) quiet, so they can deploy 30-40 to fly around looking at you and your private business.

Our job is to set boundaries on how many they can have, how many in the air looking for stoners eating wheat thins at any one time, what is 'privacy' and 'reasonable suspicion', can they be used as evidence and in which cases and what is admissable, can they just fly around with IR cameras. For other non-public safety depts like Public Works looking for gas leaks and indicators of water leaks-electrical surge etc, what are their limits, yada.

The issue is that we've cut government at the local level, everyone is super busy doing two jobs, and no one is going to step up and write these rules without being forced to. or even sit down and tell the public what their intent is with these detectors. Well, in gummint terms 2014 is about 3 weeks away and people are whining about the police using flying death robots to look for stoners smoking weed.

What a mess. So yes, no one is thinking about the po-po's Pandora's box and it is getting late. This is going to make the chronically paranoid-YewEnn-gonna-gitcha!! foam so hard they will lose 5 lbs. Ugh. Even the UAV user boards aren't even discussing how to get on top of it [admittedly, my practice relies on getting on top of things. but still]. Ugh. did I say ugh already?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 21:23

Some people seem to advocate a "police state" and then go on and on about "government interference in our lives" and our need to own guns and keep vigilant against tyranny. So which is it, come in or stay away?

It's a bewilderment.

"don't spy on me"


 o
RE: Public safety drones

OM, I don't know if by the gun statement you're talking about me, but I'm CERTAINLY not advocating a police state. Someone made the comment that this was a military action, and my comment was only to say that it would only be a military action if the drones were armed. That's not to say I support the use of them for spying on the civilian population. Far from it. I DO believe, though, that before it's all over, it will be claimed that this is fully legal under the National Defense Authorization Act. THEN lets see how many agree with me that this is fully against the Bill of RIghts.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

What a mess.

I agree.

Instead of undercover personnel, send in an inconspicuous drone. Aerosols invented to neutralize drones - or simply a good fly swatter.

A growth industry, for sure.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

So all those kids who sat on their butts playing video games have futures flying these things.

You can buy ones like this on the net.

Here's a video from one flying around NY Harbor.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toys


 o
RE: Public safety drones

There's always hope for sensible regulation of privacy. United Airlines kicks travel writer off plane for taking picture of airline seat.

See? Easy to limit.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Yes I was outside an open air flea market & a vendor asked me not to take pictures of his stuff. I obliged but pointed out it was an open air market visible from a public sidewalk & I did not need to oblige. He could have been some one on disability earning a 2nd income. I't was mostly old collectibles and junk but it made a nice shot. I also wasn't taking his picture


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Oh dear, what kind of Snoopies are going to be buying these and sending them out to find out what make and model of automobile one has parked outside their home and when their house was last painted--whether they have a pool or spent more on a roof than someone thinks they needed to?

We have already lost too much privacy--the sick thing is that some people are just that interested in other people's business.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Ah narcissism! Methinks that would be groans not drones!

This post was edited by labrea on Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 15:51


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Snoopies are going to be buying these and sending them out to find out what make and model of automobile one has parked outside their home and when their house was last painted--whether they have a pool or spent more on a roof than someone thinks they needed to?

Whoa, you don't need a building permit to install a swimming pool in Louisiana? Here it would be a matter of public record whether residential property has a swimming pool.

Google maps will most likely have a satellite photo of your roof, and street view of your house. Various real estate sites will have the square footage of your lot and structure(s) as well as latest selling price, if applicable, or estimated selling price based on comparable sales in the area -- all public information readily available to whomever wants to access it. Snooping for profit by the job creators.

Thank heavens for my walk street; Google went through the alley and was confused as to which yard belonged to which address. (Nice sharp images of garages, parked cars, fences and gates.) This was after Google bragged that it would capture images even if photographers were required to go on Segways. Well, they didn't set foot in the walk street; just drove behind the houses in the alley -- not that I mind at all.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Oh dear, what kind of Snoopies are going to be buying these and sending them out to find out what make and model of automobile one has parked outside their home and when their house was last painted--whether they have a pool or spent more on a roof than someone thinks they needed to?

In my borough those snoops would be the tax authorities. They also count your stacks and raise your property taxes for how many bathrooms added.

I do not think in this day of information you have any secrets. But the other issues your worry about they do not need a drone. Your car, swimming pools etc all need insurance so you have given that information freely.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Your car, swimming pools etc all need insurance so you have given that information freely.

Aside but related: Great Britain is trying to get its carbon emissions targets down by insulating all its residential buildings. Not a typo. The way they are going about it is by doing it from the inside (roof) and outside for many (walls). A follow-up to how well the program is doing is checking heat losses. That will be done by various methods, but surely one method is contracting private companies to do overflights at night with drones.

What may happen here is incentivizing for energy efficiency - most of our buildings are also horribly insulated, and an insurance co. and an energy co. can overfly your neighborhood at night, take a picture of your house and its energy leakage, and offer you incentives to stop your waste. And reduce emissions at the same time. Win-win!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

When I was a kid mothers would put a pillow in the window & block watch in between chores. There were few secrets & very little that was private.
The song Harper Valley PTA comes to mind


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 16:23

Snoopies are going to be buying these and sending them out to find out what make and model of automobile one has parked outside their home and when their house was last painted--whether they have a pool or spent more on a roof than someone thinks they needed to?

Whoa, you don't need a building permit to install a swimming pool in Louisiana? Here it would be a matter of public record whether residential property has a swimming pool.

*

A. I don't have a swimming pool!

B. I was not referring to the government or anyone that would need to know, like local authorities that issue permits, home owner's associations, or insurance companies.

I was referring to obsessed snoops.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I was referring to obsessed snoops.

Please refer to my above comments re information available from public records. What you are worried about is already available to 'obsessed snoops' (aka real estate agents) and others via the internet from sites that have accessed public records. Or from Google maps. No need to spend money renting, leasing, or buying a pint-sized drone.

You may thank Google and others.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Re google maps. They recently updated our area with much better resolution. They must have taken it the day I mowed my lawn, because you can easily see the mower wheel tracks in the lawn.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 17:56

I was referring to obsessed snoops.

Please refer to my above comments re information available from public records. What you are worried about is already available to 'obsessed snoops' (aka real estate agents) and others via the internet from sites that have accessed public records. Or from Google maps. No need to spend money renting, leasing, or buying a pint-sized drone.

You may thank Google and others.

*

Oh, Nancy, good grief!

Give it a rest, will you?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Give it a rest, will you?

Demi, you commented on something that is nonsensical, and several of us wrote responses pointing out the error of your thinking.

So I will give it a rest seeing as you're not interested in how much personal information is already available even though that prompted your original comments.

/ mild flounce alert


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Flounce back Nancy.

Tongue in cheek means nothing to you in this scenario, obviously--particularly if you are not privy to certain information about certain posters here.

You may, you may not be.

THOSE are to whom my comments were directed.
They know who they are.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 19:07


 o
RE: Public safety drones

THOSE are to whom my comments were directed.
They know who they are.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Tongue in cheek means nothing to you in this scenario, obviously--particularly if you are not privy to certain information about certain posters here.

I have no idea what you are saying. You think you have some privy info about certain posters here?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I have no idea what you are saying.

Same here.

Someone would be snooping around Dogpatch trying to find property values and see a swimming pool?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

As a decent citizen that follows the law, I don't need surveillance. I rather resent that my government feels I do. I think the fact that so many cameras and other surveillance equipment records us on a regular basis is, indeed, an invasion of privacy. And it just keeps increasing... when will the mandatory GPS be installed in our brains at birth? Isn't that the next step?

We just keep handing over those freedoms left and right in fear... the expectation, that our government will protect and keep us all safe and warm...


 o
RE: Public safety drones

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Ben Franklin


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 21:16

Tongue in cheek means nothing to you in this scenario, obviously--particularly if you are not privy to certain information about certain posters here.

I have no idea what you are saying. You think you have some privy info about certain posters here?

*

No, not at all.

I do not care about knowing anything about any of you.
If anyone shares information here, that's okay and one's prerogative, but I'm not interested one bit in learning or knowing any information about any of you.

That cannot be said of every poster here.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

That cannot be said of every poster here.

Words: not meant to convey information or ideas.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 22, 13 at 10:03

We just keep handing over those freedoms left and right in fear... the expectation, that our government will protect and keep us all safe and warm...

.....that about covers it, and Bill's post following.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 21:49

I have no idea what you are saying.

Same here.

Someone would be snooping around Dogpatch trying to find property values and see a swimming pool?

*

I am surprised that you would think, much less bother to post the "Dogpatch" comment Nancy.

I would have thought that would be beneath you.

Thanks for removing the illusion.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

I would have thought that would be beneath you. Thanks for removing the illusion.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 23, 13 at 4:12

Plans to Use Drones for Soccer Event in Brazil
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 22, 2013

The Brazilian Air Force will use four Israeli-made drones to help provide security during the Confederations Cup in June. The unmanned planes are also expected to help provide security during the 2014 World Cup.

The air force said the unmanned planes have been acquired to operate within Brazil’s borders and will be used extensively during the World Cup warm-up tournament from June 15-30.

Brazil has had two of the RQ-450 drones manufactured by Israel in operation since 2011. The other two will be ready in March.

The new units have a few improvements from the other two, including better infrared cameras and enhanced communication systems. The air force said it has invested nearly $25 million in the aircraft.

Brazil will also have a new radar system in place in coming months.


 o
RE: Public safety drones

Error in link

This post was edited by shaxhome on Sat, Feb 23, 13 at 9:53


 o
RE: Public safety drones

"The Brazilian Air Force will use four Israeli-made drones to help provide security during the Confederations Cup in June. The unmanned planes are also expected to help provide security during the 2014 World Cup."

Add to that the "pacification police units" and Brazil sounds very attractive. Let's party!


 o
RE: Public safety drones

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 23, 13 at 10:06

Good to know these things are being sold on the international arms market... wonder if I can get a military grade or even just a "public safety" one cheap in a few years? Kind of like an interceptor crown vic from one of the local police auctions. Oh, right, I could probably just buy 10 of the little ones up-thread for the same price.

How soon before someone fashions one of these into a crude bomb of some sort and flies it into a soft target... say, a building?


 o
RE: Public safety drones

How soon before someone fashions one of these into a crude bomb of some sort and flies it into a soft target... say, a building?

Ask McVeigh how to do it for cheaper.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here