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Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 12:14

I was so impressed by Dr. Benjamin Carson's speech at yesterday's prayer breakfast. What a brilliant man and compassionate man he is. He's a pediatric neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins and a philanthropist who has made a difference in thousands of lives, as a professional and as a philanthropist.

His foundation has helped thousands of kids go to college, and has opened reading rooms where kids can learn to read and get better and better at it. By his example, he has shown kids from the most impoverished backgrounds how to have faith in themselves and to make something of themselves.

Who watched the speech, and what did you think?

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Benjamin Carson


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 13:04

Here's a link to a video of the speech.

Too bad people see this as an opportunity to be polarizing, drive a political wedge. I think it's pretty cool. Conservative blogs are all over this .... oooooh a smart black guy who disagrees with the other smart black guy... conservatives always seem to be looking for these weird equivalencies that end up being an awkward stretch.

My son got to meet and shake Ben Carson's hand last year after he and some classmates got bused down to DC to see him speak. Left an impression on him.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Conservative blogs are all over this .... oooooh a smart black guy who disagrees with the other smart black guy... conservatives always seem to be looking for these weird equivalencies that end up being an awkward stretch.

So true they seem to not see the failure of their efforts. I do not understand the rationale. Maybe it makes them feel better. They do not understand that the millions voted for the smart black man for his polcies not his skin color.

I was busy yesterday and missed the prayer breakfast speeches. It will probably be repeated on C-SPAN this weekend.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I'm leaving this post alone except to honor the good doctor's work and condemn attempts to polarize the politics of the day using this good man's work.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

"My son got to meet and shake Ben Carson's hand last year after he and some classmates got bused down to DC to see him speak. Left an impression on him."

What a wonderful experience for your son, Kwoods. What was the occasion? Is he going to apply as one of Dr. Carson's scholars?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 16:49

Too bad the women didn't have their own military-style weapons that they shot back with. That would have made the situation so much better for them.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

OOPs, seems I committed the unpardonable sin Nik, missed your post and started another. I'm so upset and embarrassed... :^) Yeah, right.

Seems some on the board don't care for Dr. Carson. mmmmmm wonder why? Think it has anything to do with him being Black? That is the question we would be asked by a few of the libruls if they posted in admiration of a Black man's speech and we conservatives made not so nice comments.

What an inspiring speech. I personally think that the good doctor hit the nail on the head. I doubt that Dr Carson will be invited back but 'THANK YOU DR. CARSON' for standing up, telling the truth and not caring about political correctness. Audience seems to be impressed also; Dr. Carson received quiet a bit of applause through out his speech.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Brat, maybe someone edited or deleted a post but I don't see anything here that in any way indicates that anyone has an issue with the Doctor.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Is somebody fighting about something here? Hostile side drawn up--over what ? I don't get it.

Kate


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I have an issue with him:

a Seventh-Day Adventist who believes that the United States has been uniquely blessed by God.

This belief is
1) an insult to every other nation on Earth.
2) Insane.

Best wishes
Jon

Here is a link that might be useful: Viral doctor


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

No, Chase, nothing was deleted. Apparently Brat didn't like the comments that Marshall and I made on her separate thread she started Dr. Carson and proceeded to make the assumption that both of us may have a problem with Dr. Carson because he is black.

Absurd thought, but then again, one must take the thought from whence it came.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lady Brat's thread


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

The Tbaggers got all excited to see a black Republican physician take on Obamacare in front of the President, even though it was based upon a really old, tired, questionable and vastly over simplistic private HSA system.

I think Dr. Carson should stick to his day job and not venture into political rants like that. He suggests HSA accounts except for the indigent? Would those be mandatory like Obamacare? How much would we have to contribute each year? How many would choose that over private health insurance?

There are a lot of people who cannot afford to contribute to HSA accounts and a lot of those people are not indigent. There are even more that would not be able to put enough in to avoid Bankruptcy when the medical bills start coming in.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I did remove the contents of my post on the other thread but then added my change of heart in a later post. Enjoy!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

What a brilliant man!!! What a contrast between him and the other black man on the dais who is an absolute idiot and an egomaniac totally lacking in character, honor and integrity!!!! Obama is NOT the other smart black man.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

The good Doctor is just like the three men killed in Benghazi. Their only real value to some is political.

It really isn't about them its all about trying to make President Obama look bad.....so sad.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Chase, we don't have to try. Barry's doing that well enough all on his own. And that has nothing to do with this speech.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 20:34

"What a wonderful experience for your son, Kwoods. What was the occasion? Is he going to apply as one of Dr. Carson's scholars?"

It was an opportunity they earned by being good students. Dr Carson gave a speech specific to their age group, HS freshmen and sophomores, primarily on neuroscience but also his life, career and their future. My son is interested in neuroscience (my sister is a neuroscientist, science writer, college professor...etc.) but so far seems like he wants to pursue math, engineering.

To be nominated to be a Carson Scholar would be a great honor for my son... I think he has all the qualities they're looking for.

Not quite sure why conservatives find this as interesting as they do. Ben Carson has stated similar opinions in the past and is known for speaking his mind. I guess it was the fact that Obama was there listening to someone with a differing opinion? There are things I don't like about Obama but he's never struck me as a guy who didn't invite or want to hear honest debate, opposing ideas.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Barry's doing that well enough all on his own.

You have been doing pretty well showing your true colors as well.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 20:34

There are things I don't like about Obama but he's never struck me as a guy who didn't invite or want to hear honest debate, opposing ideas.
***********************************************************
You think? He looked like he could spit nails.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Asinine. Anyone with the slightest bit of common sense knows that taken out of context that photo can mean anything depending on how you spin it.

Nothing indicates that this photo is his reaction to Dr. Carson's statements as you are trying to suggest. In fact, nothing shows what he is reacting to at that very moment. Michelle doesn't look too upset. There are plenty of other photos of him at the very same breakfast that show him smiling, talking, laughing, listening, and with his eyes closed, praying.

It's all in the spin or in this case, the poor attempt at it.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

cw knows no nuance


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Aaaw marshall, you are gonna keep on til I'm just crazy about you .
You use them big words about me and I nearly swoon.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Only in CW's mind is the word "nuance", "big words". The worst part is that no one is surprised that she made that statement.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

The truly astonishing thing about Dr Carson's well-advertised, heroic struggle to rise from the depths of blackest poverty was that - in a nation so blessed - he had to.

Best wishes
Jon


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Oh, there are plenty of examples of Obama's reaction to Dr. Carson on You Tube.

And it's petty, not pretty.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Kind of like that picture of Beyonce at the Super Bowl looking like some sort of freak. You can get ugly/weird pictures of people anywhere.

And Beyonce's publicist is trying very hard to get those pictures erased.

Here is a link that might be useful: sorry, it turned into a meme


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

This is pathetic. YouTube setting the standards of Presidential behavior. Damn childish, IMHO.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

there are plenty of examples of Obama's reaction to Dr. Carson on You Tube. And it's petty, not pretty.

Citizen Carson is a wealthy Republican physician who happens to be black. He is not an elected official and does not speak for most blacks simply because his is black. He may speak for Republicans and some others in his profession. Now that his 15 minutes of fame are over it would be nice to sit him down and have him flesh out details of how these private savings accounts could replace Medicare or Obamacare and how he suggest dealing with the vast pool of uninsured that impact healthcare costs. He mentioned that wealthy people would voluntarily donate to "the indigent." Is that really a public policy that can be taken seriously by any reasonable person?

OK, so a wealthy black physician does not like Obamacare and agrees with Sarah Palin about "death panels." He probably openly complains about the costs of malpractice insurance even though he and other physicians just pass on the costs. Big deal.
Frankly, I could care less what his opinions are and I doubt President Obama gives then any more weight than those of any other Republican. He has heard these Republican talking points on health care over and again.
Remember George W. Bush wanted private savings accounts and stock market investment to replace everything from Medicare to Social Security.

I guess some Republcians always need to have a token black Republican handy to prove that they are not racist. How ironic is that?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I guess some Republcians always need to have a token black Republican handy to prove that they are not racist. How ironic is that?

*

I think characterizing a man like Dr. Carson as a "token" is racist.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Try calling "Obama" President Obama, especially when you are adding "Dr." before Carson's name in the same sentence.
Have some Goshdamn respect for our President.

As far as Dr.Carson, he is a token black for Republicans and that race token is being played to the hilt, isn't it?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I have referred to Obama as President Obama before.
I have also referred to President Bush as Bush.

When one doesn't have a point to make, one looks for fights and killing the messenger.

You don't dictate how I refer to anyone.

I wouldn't know about playing race--I don't judge people based on the color of their skin or their ethnicity.

What Dr. Carson had to say reflected common sense and the feelings of many citizens of this country, and from viewing Obama's reaction, he did not like hearing it. The man just can't hide his anger when he or his "ideas" or challenged.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

There is a new syndrome which has popped up amongst conservatives since the election loss of 2008, commonly referred to as the "Sore loser" syndrome.

This thread is merely another symptom displayed in the syndrome currently afflicting too many conservatives.

It is a syndrome indicating an underlying disease because it must be assumed that the shockingly unrelenting sulking and simple bad behavior MUST be beyond their control.

Surely it must be, since their often touted sense of honor, pride and insistence on personal responsibility for honorable behavior in the face of defeat would certainly intervene, preventing such unending years and years of endless displays ( such as this thread) of whining found in such a dazzling array of various forms, if ANY of this behavior was at all controllable.

Someday the democrats will lose the presidential election. Hopefully by then there will be guidelines all democratic supporters can follow in order to protect themselves from such a rapidly spreading, socially embarrassing disease.

Unless of course there already exists such guidelines, easily obtainable to anyone wishing to follow such basic and simple guidelines for honorable behavior as expected by all patriotic, real Americans.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

"HS freshmen and sophomores, primarily on neuroscience but also his life, career and their future. My son is interested in neuroscience (my sister is a neuroscientist, science writer, college professor...etc.) but so far seems like he wants to pursue math, engineering."

Sounds like the "woods" family has a history of high expectations followed by high achievement. Your son is gifted with the ability and drive to be whatever he wants to be, and the family and schools to help him get there. Thanks for sharing a little bit about yourself and your family, Kwoods.


"Not quite sure why conservatives find this as interesting as they do. Ben Carson has stated similar opinions in the past and is known for speaking his mind. I guess it was the fact that Obama was there listening to someone with a differing opinion?"

I can only speak for myself, but coming from a disadvantaged background, I am always drawn to stories like Dr. Carson's. Seems to me that if he did "only" neurosurgery, or "only" grooming and encouraging students to excel, he would still be a remarkable man. To be actively doing both important jobs with such skill makes me admire him even more.

Did your son say what stood out to him about Dr. Carson?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim.

Dr. Carson's accomplishments and opinions are particularly inconvenient for liberals that have been feeding the victim excuse to the downtrodden for decades in order to secure their votes.

Therefore, Dr. Carson must be characterized as a "token."

What a disgusting dismissal of accomplishment, and based on race--even more disgusting!

This post was edited by demifloyd on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 11:43


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

What Dr. Carson had to say reflected common sense and the feelings of many citizens of this country, and from viewing Obama's reaction, he did not like hearing it. The man just can't hide his anger when he or his "ideas" or challenged.

Obamacare is not President Obama's "idea." It was originally an idea from the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank and later that idea was implemented by Romney. Now it is no longer just an idea, it is the law of the land. Get over the election and the fact that Obamacare is not going to be repealed.
You are continuing to fight losing battles, like some Southerners do in Civil War reenactments. Do you know there were some black soldiers who fought for the Confederacy? My oh my!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Keep your condescending nonsense to yourself, Heri.

I'm SO over it.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Try calling "Obama" President Obama, especially when you are adding "Dr." before Carson's name in the same sentence.
Have some Goshdamn respect for our President.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You funny!!

Photobucket


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

There's nothing wrong at all with medical savings accounts, particularly when you're a well-established surgeon pulling down a 6 figure salary. Then you can sock away several hundred thousand and be ok when you get t-boned by an uninsured drunk driver.

For the rest of us, not so much.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 12:15

There's nothing wrong at all with medical savings accounts, particularly when you're a well-established surgeon pulling down a 6 figure salary. Then you can sock away several hundred thousand and be ok when you get t-boned by an uninsured drunk driver.

For the rest of us, not so much.

*

So, other than mental or physical liabilities, exactly what keeps anyone from accomplishing the same?

Choices.

We live with them every day.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

And it's petty, not pretty.

Just like this thread.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Just like Obama's demeanor when Dr. Carson was speaking.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 12:55

Obama's expression in the above picture is quite neutral, Michelle happens to have her mouth in a similar position at the moment as well. It means nothing. Supermarket checkout rags flaunt paparazzi pictures capturing goofy looking or bizarre moments and attach bogus screaming headlines to them all the time.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Forget the still photo--look at Obama's demeanor on video while Dr. Carson was speaking about health care and fair taxes.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Not sure what you call it when a prominent Doctor such as Dr Carson is used simply as a way to take aim at the President.

If the President had not been present, I suspect few would be commenting on the doctor , pro or con. Although Dr Carson has been saying the same thing publicly for years its interesting that he is only now worthy of a discussion.......heaven knows Obamacare has been discussed ad nauseam.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Of course it's more interesting to see the President's reaction.

Dr. Carson's remarks aren't relevant unless Obama has something to do with it, don't you know? (as far as the media is concerned)


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 14:17

"Did your son say what stood out to him about Dr. Carson?"

No, not specifically. I imagine when you learn about someone in school and then get bused a couple hundred miles to see them... wind up actually meeting them, that alone would make an impression.

When I watched the vid I posted at the top of the thread I didn't see what Demi or the blogs saw. People disagree. Sensible people disagree respectfully. The president having his positions challenged publicly, respectfully, is normal, it is as it should be. I feel like the divisiveness started in DC and has now permeated our culture. "We" look for it, "we" seek it out and when we get even a whiff of it, even if it is pure projection "we" cheer it on in an attempt to amplify it. Hopefully, if people in the public eye exhibit civility, model civility, encourage civility then civility will eventually prevail.

I saw the "exchange" between Carson and Obama as civil, Carson speaking his mind and Obama's "reaction" as civil, normal, as it should be in a civil society. The conservative blogs are like the schoolyard kids yelling "fight, fight, fight" trying to provoke something that isn't there. Next they will try to get Carson to comment and then amplify that into something it isn't or doesn't have to be. A public airing of opposing views should be normal, it has the potential to be productive, it is the way our government used to work to find compromise. It's as if our congress and many of our leaders have forgotten how our system is supposed to work and that has trickled down to the populace.

BTW, I'm glad conservatives are getting the opportunity to know Ben Carson as a result of this. He's an interesting guy.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Thank you kwoods!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

My son who is also a Pediatric Neurosurgeon, knows Dr. Carson in a professional setting.
My son is also a Christian but he says being around Dr.
Carson is likened to being around one of the desciples and
he says that in a good way.

The Dr. must have a heart bigger than most.
By the time I was finished hearing about him , I was more than impressed.
I will have to look up his bio.
I love hearing about the greatness of a human and then being able to
look it up and see how far and to whom that goodness extends.

People who are truly good and giving leave a trail to follow.
*********************************************************
PS
Frank, I don't know why you found it neccessary to make
that remark.
And how do you know "no one " is surprised?
It was a remark directed at my education and I imagine
most people know I am not uneducated and my vocabulary
is not lacking.
The only area my vocabulary is limited is in most foreign
languages.

You must be having a bad day...sorry you don't feel good.

Posted by frank_il z5Illinois (My Page) on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 3:23

Only in CW's mind is the word "nuance", "big words". The worst part is that no one is surprised that she made that statement.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim.

Say what?

I'm happy for every person that has risen to a level of success in life.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

CW, How did getting Facto banned go for you? Just curious.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

" To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim."

Really? I would be very interested in any information you have that supports such an allegation. Living your life as a victim is NOT a liberal thing. I suggest your President and First Lady are fine examples of the opposite.....no different than Dr Carson.
________________

Facto got banned???? He was a tad irritating in my view but no more so than several others here .

I really don't get the tattle tale thing. Don't like someone engage them or ignore but tattle........grow up!!!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

little"""""Apparently Brat didn't like the comments that Marshall and I made on her separate thread she started Dr. Carson and proceeded to make the assumption that both of us may have a problem with Dr. Carson because he is black."

little, regardless of your seeming to believe you can read minds, I made no assumptions; truthfully you never cross my mind unless I happen to see your name on a post, which truthfully, I then usually SOB.............but if the shoe fits........

chase""""""" Although Dr Carson has been saying the same thing publicly for years its interesting that he is only now worthy of a discussion..."

Unfortunately chase, I had never heard Dr. Carson speak. I was very impressed by his beliefs and his willingness to stand for them. For whatever reason he was in the news I am glad he was brought to my attention.

Heri, didn't see you fly to obama's defense on the thread regarding obama's use of drones against American citizens. With your ardor, fervor and worshipful attitude toward obama I thought sure you would be there praising and adoring him as usual. What happened.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Facto got banned???? He was a tad irritating in my view but no more so than several others here .

I really don't get the tattle tale thing. Don't like someone engage them or ignore but tattle........grow up!!!

I don;t know if he/she was banned. I have been busy but I know one day CW posted a long brag post about reporting Facto. I closed the post and did not go back. It was silly.

I agree Chase some should grow up. But sometime people will do what makes them feel good for the moment.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Marquest...CW's thread was pulled by the powers that be, I guess. I know she said she reported Facto. I wondered if she was successful. Don't ya love a snitch?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Marquest...CW's thread was pulled by the powers that be, I guess

I see it is gone I went to look for it to attach for Chase.

You gotta love'm. I have been out having fun, I have been on a little bit at night.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Where did anyone get the idea that FT was banned? I don't see any evidence of that. I thought that CW's thread got pulled because of something someone posted on it (probably)that I didn't see; I assumed that, BTW.

---------------------
Heri: "Do you know there were some black soldiers who fought for the Confederacy? My oh my!"

What's up with that? There were blacks and whites on both sides. Probably other races too. And there is a point to posting that nugget, I'm sure. Just can't see what that might be. It's time for folks to get over the race hang-up. Move on, will ya?


---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

factoman is still around-- just posted to another thread. Nice try, Lily. Again. Anything to discredit people. Factoman is teaching you well, grasshopper.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Unfortunately chase, I had never heard Dr. Carson speak.

Broaden your horizons as has been suggested to you many times. If you do perhaps you will learn of many people that aren't part of your usual. There are many out there


To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim."

Another asinine statement with no basis of fact and ironic coming from HT's resident victim.
For someone who detests "liberals"or those you deem are, interesting how you claim to know how "many" think albeit wrong.

Really? I would be very interested in any information you have that supports such an allegation.

LOL. You aren't expecting a response I hope. She doesn't have any substance that backs up her ridiculous claim. Demi just likes to shoot from the hip and hope something sticks. It never does.


Unfortunately chase, I had never heard Dr. Carson speak. I was very impressed by his beliefs and his willingness to stand for them. For whatever reason he was in the news I am glad he was brought to my attention.

Again, broaden your horizons beyond Fox and you might learn about many people that you haven't heard about. Dr. Carson has been in the news before as well as featured on various shows and has many articles written about his views, including his feelings on Obamacare and evolution, and was discussed when he separated co-joined twins, long before the prayer breakfast. His views have been covered on PBS, CBS, and other media but it seems you just weren't given the talking points by Fox before this.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 18:58

Good thing Dr. Carson is a brilliant neurosurgeon.
Because he's not a very good economist.

I found his HSA recommendations particularly surprising. Let's try to imagine how his own healthcare as a child might have fared under that system...


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

epip..wow..gesundheit...here's a kleenex. Hope you get to feeling better.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

lily316 wrote,

CW, How did getting Facto banned go for you? Just curious.

I'm going with "badly".


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd previously posted,

Some people are just so intolerant of others that they have to offend or insult them. I wonder why. Is the other side of the coin that threatening?
.
What I do not understand is the perpetual need to "state" what some poster believes and what their motives are
.
you people pretend to know what I think, [why]I think it
.
I have no stereotype of liberals.

...but now posts

To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim.

A stark demonstration of hypocrisy.

How can a conversation progress in the face of this sort of insincerety?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

bill_vincent wrote,

Nice try, Lily. Again. Anything to discredit people.

I don't understand your comment. citywoman2012 had threatened to report me. Are you saying that's not true?

This post was edited by Factotem on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 19:45


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I see you're still here, so you haven't been banned. If you did not receive a "friendly reminder" from Gardenweb, then no one reported you, and Tamara didn't see you herself. There have been several times in here that I've either been reported or Tamara saw my comments herself. Either way, posts disappeared, and I got the "friendly reminder".


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

epi"""""""Broaden your horizons as has been suggested to you many times. If you do perhaps you will learn of many people that aren't part of your usual. There are many out there."

Well epi, at least you didn't disappoint me. You took a perfectly normal, non combative comment and make your usual little snarky comment. But since we are on the subject, I"M sure if YOU broaden your horizons perhaps you will learn of many people that aren't part of YOUR usual. That could be said of anyone so get over yourself.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd previously posted,

Some people are just so intolerant of others........yadda yadda
--------------------------------------------------------
How can a conversation progress in the face of this sort of insincerety?

Factotem,
You keep looking for some of that Personal Responsibility.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

But since we are on the subject, I"M sure if YOU broaden your horizons perhaps you will learn of many people that aren't part of YOUR usual.

I knew about Dr. Carson, who's views on evolution and other subjects I don't agree with so it looks like I proved your point wrong. There are plenty others. I try to know and read about and understand many different points of view. Because I don't agree with people doesn't mean I don't know about them.

Well epi, at least you didn't disappoint me. You took a perfectly normal, non combative comment and make your usual little snarky comment.

You mean this "non-combative" ditty or your thread no, 2 about Dr. Carson that you edited to remove your post? You came out swinging in your very first post.with this unfounded accusation.

Posted by Lady_Brat none (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 17:09

OOPs, seems I committed the unpardonable sin Nik, missed your post and started another. I'm so upset and embarrassed... :^) Yeah, right.
Seems some on the board don't care for Dr. Carson. mmmmmm wonder why? Think it has anything to do with him being Black? That is the question we would be asked by a few of the libruls if they posted in admiration of a Black man's speech and we conservatives made not so nice comments.

Save your outrage for someone else.

I thought that CW's thread got pulled because of something someone posted on it (probably)that I didn't see; I assumed that, BTW.

If it was a post then just that would have been deleted but the thread would remain. In this case it was the thread in its entirety. The cache version doesn't show anything anyone posted as offensive as CW's OP so it seems that the powers that be didn't like the topic not just a single post.

I would imagine if anyone at all got a reprimand then it would have been the author of the offensive thread that was clearly against forum rules.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by epiphyticlvr 10 (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 18:30

"To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim."

For someone who detests "liberals"or those you deem are, interesting how you claim to know how "many" think albeit wrong.

*

Get this epiphyticlvr and get it straight--you do NOT get to speak for me by stating that I detest liberals.

Speak for yourself, but not me.
You have absolutely no right to do so.

You lied when you said I detest liberals.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

epip you are wrong.
My thread wasn't offensive...it was just matter of fact.
I did not get a note or reminder or anything from GW.
I guess some of the post got pretty ugly in the thread
and GW pulled it for that reason.
Leaving the subject matter would have just called for more
ugly postings from liberals so I assumed it was pulled to
keep down the "ugly".

I have no problem with it being removed.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Yes, keep your "d's" straight in describing liberals.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd wrote,

Get this epiphyticlvr and get it straight--you do NOT get to speak for me by stating that I detest liberals.

Speak for yourself, but not me.
You have absolutely no right to do so.

Yet, you feel free to speak for liberals by stating how they view Dr. Carson. Incredible hypocrisy.

You lied when you said I detest liberals.

Compare with,

Appeals to the lowest common denominator of society, so it fits with liberalism

The denials ring hollow.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

epip you are wrong.
My thread wasn't offensive...it was just matter of fact.
I did not get a note or reminder or anything from GW.
I guess some of the post got pretty ugly in the thread
and GW pulled it for that reason.
Leaving the subject matter would have just called for more
ugly postings from liberals so I assumed it was pulled to
keep down the "ugly".


You shoudn't assume. Your thread was not a hot topic and it broke the board rules. Don't try to paint it as something it wasn't. Your thread did nothing but call out and try to belittle another poster with the intent to intimidate. You made some false claims that were not factual at all.

There was no ugly. People responded to your op and many had opinions that didn't agree with your actions and told you so.

It is simple, If the mods find a thread inappropriate they remove it just like they do a post, without always giving a warning or reprimand. A moderator wouldn't know what liberals are going to post before they do unless they find the content of an OP antagonizing and/or provocative, which that thread was, so they remove it. It wasn't the first time and I am sure it won't be the last.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Just too many "d's" dangling from these low hanging branches.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I have a very hard time buying anything about the personal information CW keeps trying to sell us.
'Nuff said!

Why would Dr. Carson be " an inconvenient reminder" of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim"?

First of all, the purpose of this thread and the resulting supportive posts to this thread are a good example of how being a sore loser can infuse every waking thought with people who behave like wounded victims for YEARS after their disappointing loss.

To the point that liberals in general needing a reminder of people who come from very little and accomplishing a great deal in this country:
what a silly surmise!

We have our own President and First Lady to point to with great pride on that very point.

The President and his accomplishments are well known.

The First Lady's accomplishments, despite great odds, are equally inspiring.

Coming from a financial background of so very little, she managed to achieve unique successes through Harvard law school and beyond - successes in her education, her successful, sterling career and personal life that conservative women in this forum could only dream of having achieved for themselves.

It is such a shame that rather than having been used as an object of derision- by those of you we all know who you are- her efforts and work for her achievements could have instead have been pointed to by all women, for all women and their daughters to look to in order to emulate.

For conservative women, opportunity lost!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 1:32

Posted by mylab

"We have our own President... to point to with great pride on that very point."------WHAT?
To be fortunate to have a rich white grandmother?
I guess that includes the Kennedy and Bush boys also.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I stated sarcastically that "Do you know there were some black soldiers who fought for the Confederacy? My oh my!"

Another poster replied:
"What's up with that? There were blacks and whites on both sides. Probably other races too.!"

I swear, this is like having Sarah Palin post here.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

CW's whole thread was removed, not any posts because they weren't what was offensive. It was the fact someone would openly make the grand announcement that they were going to the moderator because some liberal was picking on her. Bless her little heart. I guess her little plan didn't work out so good, because Factomen is still here.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

"BTW, I'm glad conservatives are getting the opportunity to know Ben Carson as a result of this. He's an interesting guy."

I completely agree. I am glad liberals, too, are getting to know him. His name sounded familiar, and I realize now that I read a review of his book, "Gifted Hands," a few years ago. I think it was turned into a documentary and a movie but I've not seen either of them.

Dr. Carson gives new meaning to "Pay it forward."


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

A stark demonstration of hypocrisy.

How can a conversation progress in the face of this sort of insincerety?

We see on this board some don't use words to convey information or ideas.

As long as we keep this in mind.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Rpr,

What information do you have that President Obama's Grandmother was rich? Especially as compared to the Bush and Kennedy families.

If so, she must have been one very mean spirited person to make him take out student loans for his university education.

Edited for spelling

This post was edited by chase on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 12:36


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

We see on this board some don't use words to convey information or ideas.

As long as we keep this in mind.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 13:39

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 12:28

"What information do you have that President Obama's Grandmother was rich? Especially as compared to the Bush and Kennedy families.

If so, she must have been one very mean spirited person to make him take out student loans for his university education."------------------She was a bank vice-president.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

She was a bank vice-president.

RpR_, are you saying President Obama's Grandmother was rich because she was a VP of a local bank?
.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

She was a bank vice-president.

Because she had a title at a local bank you assume she was wealthy? Quite a stretch. Women executives did not make comparable salaries to men, so unless you know her salary and her finances, specifics of her life, and her motivations you know nothing except she had a title. Assumptions aren't facts.

During his acceptance speech for Democratic presidential nominee he noted her with the words, "She's the one who put off buying a new car or a new dress for herself so that I could have a better life... She poured everything she had into me."

This doesn't sound like she was wealthy but it does sound like she was a caring grandmother who did her best for her grandson.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

It is not a stretch when people hear a title they think "rich". Rich is relative I guess. If a person is a fast food worker they think VP at a local bank makes you rich.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demi: Get this epiphyticlvr and get it straight--you do NOT get to speak for me by stating that I detest liberals.

Really? Why is it not ok for epi to speak for you (which is based on your words here, by the way) when you clearly think it's ok for you to speak for all liberals?

Your level of hypocrisy is really climbing to new levels in recent weeks.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I missed the CW thread threatening facto since I've been away from HT for a couple of days. But, thanks to my friend google, I was able to read it. Wow! Funny, actually that CW threatens to report facto for doing exactly what she was doing in that post.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I missed the CW thread threatening facto

Words - not meant to convey ideas or information.

Words are weapons here on this board by those that are...um...challenged in obvious ways.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 20:12

OK, so President Barry Obama was poor boy raised by poor parents worked hard labor to survive.-----------

Obama's grandmother-- was vice president of the Bank of Hawaii.
Obama's grandparents-- on his mother's side both attended college.
Obama's parents-- both attended college.

Obama-- lived with his maternal grandparents from age 10 until he went to college in California. They lived in a 2-story apartment at the top of a high rise in one of the most expensive areas of Honolulu.

Before Obama's mother and grandparents-- moved to Hawaii, they lived on Mercer Island one of the 100 richest zip codes in America.

Obama's-- first home in expensive Hawaii (when he was an infant) was less than 10 years old and had 5 bedrooms and two baths.

Obama's second home-- in expensive Hawaii, where he lived with his mother and new stepfather, had four bedrooms and 2000 sq. ft. of living space.

Lolo Soetoro, his stepfather-- was a colonel in the Indonesian Army, was from a wealthy Indonesian family, and was a manager at an oil company. Obama's childhood friends in Indonesia said on the record that Obama lived in the largest and nicest home in the neighborhood 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, room for 6 cars.

Obama-- was taken to school in a chauffeur-driven limo. He wore the best clothes. He had a nanny. The family had other servants besides.

Obama-- attended a private school and then later a public school reserved for the children of the "elite."

His sister Maya attended a private college prep school that today costs more than $20,000 per year.

From childhood through young adulthood, Obama traveled the world Indonesia, Hawaii, Australia, Japan, Bali, Kenya, England, France, Pakistan, India. A regular jet-setting family in an age when air travel was not the norm.

Obama and his sister Maya attended Punahou school in Hawaii, one of the most expensive schools in the USA.

Obama's father-- worked as an economist for the government of Kenya and had many wealthy connections, including Tom Mboya and other leaders of government. Obama Seniors second wife was born to wealth, and he lived with her in one of the most upscale areas of Nairobi. His education was funded by several wealthy American women. His children by his second wife also attended expensive international college prep schools.

Obama inherited nearly a half-million dollars from his grandmother Madelyn Dunham, when she died.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

If all of that is true, it would seem that he had some money. However, the story appears to come from a birther site. So I really don't know whether to believe it.

Here is a link that might be useful: site


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

RpR wrote,

Obama's grandmother-- was vice president of the Bank of Hawaii.
Obama's grandparents-- on his mother's side both attended college.
Obama's parents-- both attended college....

Etc. etc. etc.

Due to the distinct absence of erroneous hyphen usage it was immediately obvious that you plagiarized this. Perhaps you stole it from WasObamaBornInKenya.com?

This post was edited by Factotem on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 20:45


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Due to the distinct absence of erroneous hyphen usage it was immediately obvious that you plagiarized this. Perhaps you stole it from WasObamaBornInKenya.com?

Don't shoot too often at that fish in the barrel. We need all the barrels we can get around here, and that fish isn't worth the waste of bullets.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Obama inherited nearly a half-million dollars from his grandmother Madelyn Dunham, when she died.

The other examples were funny enough but this NEARLY half million dollars. I am so surprised...What not a multi- million dollar inheritence. After all they were rich. Half a million is 500,000 so how nearly was that nearly? Was it 3 hundred thou, 4 hundred thou?

Like I said rich to some is relative.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Obama inherited nearly a half-million dollars from his grandmother

This is another one of those things that is "out there" and the faithful are going to repeat it. What a racket!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Just to put this horsepuckey out to pasture:

"On April 16, 2010, the Washington Post reported that President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama had publicly released their 2009 tax return. "Obama's grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, left him stock in the Bank of Hawaii valued at almost $500,000 at the time of her death in November 2008, the tax return shows," said the Post.

In fact, that tax return is currently posted on the White House website. In a Schedule D, showing "Capital Gains and Losses," it indicates that the Obama�s inherited $480,908 worth of Bank of Hawaii stock. The tax return says the Obama�s sold the stock on Jan. 29, 2009, for $355,029, absorbing a loss of $125,879."

Here is a link that might be useful: google is our friend


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 22:36

Posted by Factotem

"Due to the distinct absence of erroneous hyphen usage it was immediately obvious that you plagiarized this. Perhaps you stole it from WasObamaBornInKenya.com?"-----------Actually factoto, it is a cut and paste, not copied from another forum.

It is actually a double n dash, factoto as few computer boards have proper m dash.

This post was edited by RpR_ on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 22:40


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"Due to the distinct absence of erroneous hyphen usage it was immediately obvious that you plagiarized this. Perhaps you stole it from WasObamaBornInKenya.com?"-----------Actually factoto, it is a cut and paste, not copied from another forum.

Oh, it is a cut and paste, not a copy.

So you plagiarized it by cutting and pasting it, rather than by copying it. Thanks for the clarification.

It is actually a double n dash, factoto as few computer boards have proper m dash.

What is actually a double en dash?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I wonder if Michell Obama, who worked very hard for honor grades, stuck out all the years of education required to get her law degree, also graduated from Harvard Law and then enjoyed her own enviable law career - I wonder if she was so blessed with a financially comfortable background, negating any need for student loans?

Do get back to us on that, RpR, would you?

Perhaps that "birther" leaning site Frank mentioned you used can be of help?

Thank you.

Oh, by the way, was it necessary for the President to take out student loans for his education, and do you know if his grandmother paid them off for the President?

Or, were his student loans something he was solely responsible for, say, like *perhaps* Bush jr might have been for his own?
Or, the other President you mentioned, *perhaps* President Kennedy was also held financially responsible for his student loans from his own wealthy parents?

Again, thank you for this additional information.

I admit, though I'm now fascinated right now regarding the true financial comparison you began regarding these three men who grew up in such financially advantageous circumstances to become our Presidents of our country, Im too lazy to get it for myself.

Since you seem to have an unbiased, enthusiastic interest in this particular reporting on this particular forum, Im sure you will eagerly continue to draw all the financial similarities these three Presidents enjoyed, for our further understanding - and we will eagerly anticipate your further contributions to this topic......so enjoy!

And hopefully? we will see you real soon with the answers to these interesting questions!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

@ mylab

(((SNORT)))


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Im so sick of all of it Marshall, aren't we all, all of us?
Like a train out of control, can we manage to stop? 'We' being those of us who drive this train, not you and many others.

We know exactly who "we" are and we ruin it for the "you" s of this forum.

I apologize for my very poor behavior displayed in this forum.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Hey, mylab, don't be so hard on yourself; there are many on HT that would love to continue doing that. Trollish behavior is often the favored response to challenges from perceived ideological foes; sort of a passive-aggressive response to being challenged. In my case boorish behavior by others brings out the grouch in me. I have come far in mastering the put-down and will aim that kind of response to the pompous, the jerks, and self-involved across the ideological spectrum.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I have come far in mastering the put-down and will aim that kind of response to the pompous, the jerks, and self-involved across the ideological spectrum.

Your are better suited to portraying yourself here as a wise old sage rather than as a grouchy, sarcastic, self-appointed Judge and master of the put down.
I prefer that you drop that nonsense and follow the rules here like everyone else.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I remember reading that Obama's mother was on food stamps at one time.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I may imagine I am that wise old sage but experience, honest self-awareness and temperament inform me otherwise.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Here's an acronym that guides Dr. Carson, and the key words he uses to encourage students to THINK BIG:

T- Talent
H- Honesty
I - Insight
N- Nice
K- Knowledge

B- Books
I-In-depth learning
G-God

Here is a biography of Dr. Carson's life, where he came from, who inspired him, where he is today, and how he has inspired thousands of young people to reach for the stars.

Here is a link that might be useful: Biography


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I was so impressed by Dr. Benjamin Carson's speech at yesterday's prayer breakfast. What a brilliant man and compassionate man he is.

Now, do you feel that President Obama is brilliant and compassionate ?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

heri, I believe that Obama is a brilliant and compassionate man. But also a lousy president.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

He's compassionate with other people's money.

Brilliant--no.

Educated, smart--yes.

I think someone should consider recruiting Dr. Carson for president--at least he encourages personal responsibility.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 15:55

Posted by Factotem

"It is actually a double n dash, factoto as few computer boards have proper m dash.

What is actually a double en dash?"-------It is really simple but you will have find how it is used as it seems the legend in your mind does not include it.

N - dash, size of the letter n.

M--dash, if available, size of the letter m. (the double n is used when a true m dash is not available.)

Kepp on trucking Bunky, your legend grows, in your mind.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 16:10

If Carson had got up there and prayed for Obamacare, this thread and all the phony accolades to the "man of color" would not exist.

......newsfrigginflash, lots of talented, educated, brilliant, nice, honest, Godly people of color. To "use" someone this way to take "hit on the prez" says more about y'all than it does about Obama.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"It is actually a double n dash, factoto as few computer boards have proper m dash.

What is actually a double en dash?"-------It is really simple but you will have find how it is used as it seems the legend in your mind does not include it.

N - dash, size of the letter n.

M--dash, if available, size of the letter m. (the double n is used when a true m dash is not available.)

Kepp on trucking Bunky, your legend grows, in your mind.

You failed to comprehend what I asked. I did not ask for the defintion of an en dash; I asked what character(s) you were referring to that were "actually a double n dash" instead of an em dash.

So, once more:

I wrote,

"Due to the distinct absence of erroneous hyphen usage it was immediately obvious that you plagiarized this. Perhaps you stole it from WasObamaBornInKenya.com?"

You replied,

"Actually factoto, it is a cut and paste, not copied from another forum.

It is actually a double n dash, factoto as few computer boards have proper m dash."

So, when you were referring to "a double n dash," was that in reference to my pointing out a complete absence of erroneous hyphen usage in your plagiarized post? Are you saying your erroneous hyphens -- as in "fire-arm" and "your-self" -- are actually "double n dashes"?

What is your response to what the two professors you tried to use to support your usage had to say about "fire-arm"?


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

What OM said


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Demi you said....To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim."

This Liberal does not think of Dr Carson as a inconvenient reminder. We have a President that we see every day dealing with a Party that had one goal of making him a one term President. How did that workout? That is the reminder I think the Conservatives are so upset about. That is the inconvenient reminder the Conservatives have to deal with daily. FOUR MORE YEAR, FOUR MORE YEARS!!! YEAH!!!

I am so happy the majority of America recognize we have a great President and re-elected the best man for the job. The burning building we call America that he inherited and the opposition he has had to maneuver has been amazing. I have been proud of a few Presidents and he is in my few. I know I could not have taken the birthers, Dumb Trumps of the world. If I was President I would have had someone disappear.

I say a prayer for him and his family every night. I hope it helps to keep some of the hatred that people spew around our country boomerangs back to where it comes.

From Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a well respected Republican that many thought would run for President.......

When President Obama took over, the country was in very very difficult straits. We were in one of the worst recessions we had seen in recent times, close to a depression. The fiscal system was collapsing. Wall Street was in chaos, we had 800,000 jobs lost in that first month of the Obama administration and unemployment peaked a few months later at 10 percent. So we were in real trouble. The auto industry was collapsing, the housing was start[ing] to collapse and we were in very difficult straits.

And I saw over the next several years, stabilization come back in the financial community, housing is now starting to pick up after four years, it's starting to pick up. Consumer confidence is rising."


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

marquest: " I know I could not have taken the birthers, Dumb Trumps of the world. If I was President I would have had someone disappear.

I say a prayer for him and his family every night. I hope it helps to keep some of the hatred that people spew around our country boomerangs back to where it comes."

Whoa. What's wrong with this picture?

If the boomerang theory holds water, marquest better duck. Assuming she meant to say: "where it comes from".

" I would have had someone disappear. I say a prayer for him and his family every night"

Shaking my head...


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

If [Dr Benjamin] Carson had got up there and prayed for Obamacare, this thread and all the phony accolades to the "man of color" would not exist.

Highlighted.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 18:52

"Demi you said....
'To many liberals, Dr. Carson is an inconvenient reminder of what one can accomplish when they do not choose to live their life as a victim.'

This Liberal does not think of Dr Carson as a inconvenient reminder".

*

Okay, I believe you.
That means you weren't included in the "many liberals" to which I referred.

*

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 18:52

" I have been proud of a few Presidents and he is in my few. I know I could not have taken the birthers, Dumb Trumps of the world. If I was President I would have had someone disappear."

Regarding the President, I pray for him every day too, and his family, and I pray for him at meals too, and our soldiers.

But I have never wished he disappeared or anything bad happened to him.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd wrote,

That means you weren't included in the "many liberals" to which I referred.

Actually, no one is included. You will be unable to name a specific individual who thinks this.

It is so strange that you bridle when others characterize what you think, but you are willing to do the same thing to others -- except without taking personal responsibility by being specific. This is hypocrisy, of course, with a straw man chaser.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

What a ridiculous statement. Liberals are more than capable of divorcing intelligence and accomplishment from politics. I cannot think of anyone, liberal or otherwise , who would not think of Doctor Carson's accomplishments as anything other than laudable.

Choosing to live your life as a victim has absolutely nothing to do with ones politics.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Okay, I believe you.
That means you weren't included in the "many liberals" to which I referred.

Okay Demi, I know it is difficult to understand liberals. Seeing someone doing good is not something that would concern a liberal.

Have you ever heard the saying "Bleeding Heart Liberal". That is where you will find the liberal's concern. Not questioning why they did not make better choices.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 21:36

"Okay, I believe you.
That means you weren't included in the "many liberals" to which I referred."

Okay Demi, I know it is difficult to understand liberals. Seeing someone doing good is not something that would concern a liberal.

Have you ever heard the saying "Bleeding Heart Liberal". That is where you will find the liberal's concern. Not questioning why they did not make better choices.

*

Marquest, I don't believe that I am misunderstanding anything, or that we have a disagreement here.

Certainly there are liberals--and I personally know some--that believe that certain blacks, women, and other people that could be or would be classified as minorities, have failed to succeed solely because of their minority status.

I believe that the Democrat party has thrived by convincing people that they are victims and that their lack of success in life is not their fault, but the fault of someone else. Therefore, refuting that belief would be Dr. Carson.

Perpetuating that falsehood begets more victims=Democrat voters. Apparently some of those victims are slow learners, because the Great Society has made even more poor, uneducated people dependent on others for their livelihood.

I am concerned that there are people that will buy into that idea and therefore do not make the effort to realize their full potential--thus benefiting their children, themselves, their families and society in general by becoming a productive member of society--a contributor, not a taker or a burden when they do not need to be.

You get more of what you subsidize.

It's okay that you and I disagree about this.

:)


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd wrote,

You get more of what you subsidize.

Demifloyd supports the subsidization of birth control so we get more birth control and fewer unwanted pregnancies. This is a logical conclusion. If it's not, demifloyd can object and explain why.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

I believe that the Democrat party has thrived by convincing people that they are victims and that their lack of success in life is not their fault, but the fault of someone else. Therefore, refuting that belief would be Dr. Carson.

If you are using that argument I think President Obama is the true refuting evidence of success. Has it hit you yet that Obama is the first Black President.

It would be kind of hard for the Democratic party to use your argument of the color of your skin will keep you back when we elected a black man as President.

Where we differ Demi is I do not assume black white or green people want to NOT succeed or do not succeed because of the color of their skin. I recognize anyone can stumble. It is not a Democratic ploy.

I could say a Republican ploy to draw people that do not care if a family starves. They should have made better choices. Does that make you feel good to walk past a family that needs a meal to think "Oh Well you should have made better choices"?

The Democratic Platform is to support all. When you identify with a group that feel separatism is acceptable that is not a party I want to support. It is not my idea of a United States.

It is not a black, white, green issue of why people have problems. There are more white people on food stamps than blacks.
There are generations of white trailer park welfare collectors who do they blame for not succeeding?

If someone is having trouble I do not look for an out of why they should not need help but the fact that they need help is enough for me.

There are cheaters in all walks of life. There are a truck load of bankers that took tax payers money for a bail out that were cheating. It is no different than cheaters that get public assistance. It is life. I feel it is better to help all and if the few that are cheating get by so what. I do not want to let the one that did everything right but life happened suffer.

If it helps you sleep at night then so be it.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

marquest wrote,

I could say a Republican ploy to draw people that do not care if a family starves. They should have made better choices. Does that make you feel good to walk past a family that needs a meal to think "Oh Well you should have made better choices"?

It would seem so, as demifloyd said,

"if they were hungry and living on the streets and so were their kids, they might clean up their act"


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 23:50

Where we differ Demi is I do not assume black white or green people want to NOT succeed or do not succeed because of the color of their skin. I recognize anyone can stumble. It is not a Democratic ploy.

*

That's where you are wrong, marquest.

I do not differ from you for the reason you outlined as quoted above, because I DO NOT ASSUME anything about anyone based on the color of their skin.

In fact, I do not believe anyone is more or less capable of anything because of their race, ethnicity, sex, or sexual preference.

But it is obviously very important to the Democrats to identify and distinguish people based on these characteristics.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

But it is obviously very important to the Democrats to identify and distinguish people based on these characteristics.

Words: not meant to convey ideas or information.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

But it is obviously very important to the Democrats to identify and distinguish people based on these characteristics.

It is not important to Democrats. You are the one that thought Dr. Carson was going to show something and I pointed out to you that was not necessary.

Can you explain why you thought Dr Carson was a inconvenient reminder if you do not use color as your factor in your analysis?

There is a higher position to point to that regardless of your color or financial standing in life you can be President.

If that was the Democratic position there would never have been a Liberal that even thought anyone of color could win an election. I am pretty sure that Romney thought that was true and I suspect from your comments you are of like minds.


 o
RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Can you explain why you thought Dr Carson was a inconvenient reminder if you do not use color as your factor in your analysis?

*

Yes, because I have heard countless liberals for decades say that the people I referred to could not achieve what others could BECAUSE of those distinguishing characteristics.

So, for a person to defy the characterization of certain people as victims and unable to achieve what others can, would be inconvenient when it comes to garnering support from certain people in the form of votes.

As to your last sentence--you are wrong and simply don't know what you are talking about when it comes to what I think and comparing me to Romney in that regard.

If you want to know, ask me. Please don't assume.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

At some point, conservatives will figure out that the reason minorities overwhelmingly vote Democratic isn't because the ""want free stuff" but because the policies of the two parties re education and what holds people back from succeeding are addressed by the Democrats and ignored by the current crop of Republicans.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

"Okay Demi, I know it is difficult to understand liberals."

Not for me. I used to be one.

"Seeing someone doing good is not something that would concern a liberal."

Learning about people using their God given talents to help others made my liberal heart as happy as it does my conservative one. It's all good. Or perhaps it's all God.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 10:55

At some point, conservatives will figure out that the reason minorities overwhelmingly vote Democratic isn't because the ""want free stuff" but because the policies of the two parties re education and what holds people back from succeeding are addressed by the Democrats and ignored by the current crop of Republicans.

*

While I understand and appreciate your point, which is valid, the reality is that Democrats tend to throw money at a problem rather than searching for a viable solution.

I view this mindset along the lines of, "We care about kids, so we will spend a lot of money on education."

We have seen that all the computers, the Headstart Program, and money thrown at education and special education programs do not accomplish everything they were supposed to accomplish, and in many cases fall very short. We have discussed this about the Headstart program before.

While Republicans aren't any group I have any interest in defending, I can say that as a conservative that concentrating less on money and more on personal responsibility on the part of parents--regardless of their "minority" status--is the key to the success of our younger generation, individually and as a whole.

That's something that cannot be bought, but it sure sounds good to parents that want someone else to take on what should be their responsibility, which is to insure that their children are educated and become productive, responsible citizens.

It may "take a village and money" but it generally doesn't work if the parents are not engaged.

That's something Democrats can't fix by throwing someone else's money at it. I would think they would see that, but it keeps the votes coming I suppose.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 11:00

Or perhaps it's all God.

*

It is!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Demi, I have heard countless liberals for decades say that the people I referred to could not achieve what others could BECAUSE of those distinguishing characteristics.

Do you know why you have heard this?

Because it has been proven and upheld by the Supreme Court recognizing it is a problem. Women, people of color, Religion, are reasons people do not achieve to the limit of their ability because of these distinguishing characteristics. It is not a Liberal imagination issue. It is that Liberal realize there are difference and are willing to accept the court rulings and not use it as a "so what Republican mindset"

I do not speak for all Liberals but my observation from your talking points and the Republican doctrine are not concerned with supporting data that does not disparage the under privileged and consider them as takers. I understand why corporations support this policy. But individuals I do not understand.

Corporations exist to make and keep as much money as possible. Individual citizens I do not understand their commitment to the superior comment of saying people have made bad choices as the reason of being poor other than maybe it makes individuals feel good. It does nothing for their bottom line of wealth.

If individuals have that need so be it, this liberal does not have a need to look down on another to make me feel I am above an imaginary taker.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Demi, thank you so much for proving my point.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

David and Marquest, we proved one another's points.

We both recognize that some people do not realize their potential.

I happen to believe that one's skin color, or their birth circumstances or any other characteristic that makes them a "minority" is not the reason they do not realize their potential.

Of course people are discriminated against, of course that is wrong. Of course we should do all we can to prohibit and discourage that discrimination.

But in the end, Dr. Carson managed not to use discrimination, or perceived discrimination or any combination thereof, as an excuse to not achieve his goals.

People not protected as minorities are discriminated against every day--for a number of reasons, without government protection.

I have said it before and I will say it again--if you can't make it in this country, you don't deserve to make it anywhere.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Some day I would really like to see the scientific studies and statistics that establish that there is any truth to the idea that minority people use their minority status "as an excuse to not achieve [their] goals."

Or is that just opinion and we are to accept your opinion as Truth just because you believe it is true?

I have never met a minority person who used his/her minority status as an excuse to not achieve his/her goals--so I am of the opinion that that is an unsupportable (because erroneous) statement.

Kate


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 12:01

Some day I would really like to see the scientific studies and statistics that establish that there is any truth to the idea that minority people use their minority status "as an excuse to not achieve [their] goals."

Or is that just opinion and we are to accept your opinion as Truth just because you believe it is true?

I have never met a minority person who used his/her minority status as an excuse to not achieve his/her goals--so I am of the opinion that that is an unsupportable (because erroneous) statement.

Kate

*

I am not aware of any studies, but I can assure you that it does happen, Kate. Considering how our federal government loves to spend hard earned tax money on studies about everything, I imagine if you wanted to spend the time you could find a study discounting what I said and if I was so inclined I could find a study supporting what I said.

To what extent, I don't know nor do I care.

Take my word for it, don't take my word for it, it matters not.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd wrote,

We have seen that all the computers, the Headstart Program, and money thrown at education and special education programs do not accomplish everything they were supposed to accomplish, and in many cases fall very short. We have discussed this about the Headstart program before.

Indeed, you posted some false information about Head Start in this thread, then refused to back it up or retract it.

I happen to believe that one's skin color, or their birth circumstances or any other characteristic that makes them a "minority" is not the reason they do not realize their potential.

Do you believe this has always been the case, or that there is a particular date when it became true, whereas before that date, discrimination was a reason some people could not realize their potential? If you believe there is a changeover date where discrimination was no longer a valid reason, what is that date?

Of course people are discriminated against, of course that is wrong. Of course we should do all we can to prohibit and discourage that discrimination.

But in the end, Dr. Carson managed not to use discrimination, or perceived discrimination or any combination thereof, as an excuse to not achieve his goals.

Do you take the position that, for example, the reason no blacks played major league baseball before Jackie Robinson was because they used discrimination as an excuse not to achieve their goals?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

marquest"""""""If someone is having trouble I do not look for an out of why they should not need help but the fact that they need help is enough for me."


Benefits are there for, a safety net; not for someone to make a career of using. It's those who take advantage and illegally use the system that irritate me. I have a friend (divorced and raising her kids alone) whose daughter, I'll call her Sue, got pregnant in high school......two of her friends also got pregnant within months of each other. Sue finished school, using federal childcare, went on to college, again using federal childcare and federal loans/grants and has graduated as a Pharmacist. Her two friends........dropped out of school, went on welfare/food stamps and continually told Sue how stupid she was for not taking advantage of the system instead of trying to better herself. The two friends are still collecting their welfare. Sue is now self supporting also contributing to the support of the other girls. . So yes, I have a problem with helping those two lazy girls and their getting welfare and food stamps.


I have seen elderly people who have worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes, maybe managed to buy a small house or have a small savings, who for one reason or another fell on hard times. When they tried to get help they were told that they owned a home/had a savings or in some cases that they were collecting a few dollars too much so they weren't eligible. That is totally wrong. Then take the druggie, alcoholic or career welfare recipient who has basically contributed nothing during their life who when they are elderly are eligible for all kinds of benefits. Things like this are what I find wrong with our system. People who are willing to help themselves I have no problem at all helping. Those who expect the government to take care of them entirely, not so much.


Anyone can find themselves needing a helping hand at times and that is what the benefits are meant for.......to be a helping hand, not to become the sole means of support. Dr. Carson was from a "VERY" poor home but his mother wanted better for her children and encouraged them to aim higher and to help themselves, not just depend on the government to hand them everything. Through using that helping hand in a proper manner and hard work Dr. Carson fulfilled the American Dream and thank goodness is out there trying to encourage others to help themselves.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

So the Republican/conservative answer is to hold up Dr Carson and say he did it, so can you. While they preach drastically cutting funding for education, head start, gut student loans, getting rid of affirmative action, and to top it off, start subsidizing religious charter schools to rip off the taxpayer.

As for health care? Go buy your own health insurance because we can't afford to help you what with our tax cuts, and anyway, if you were successful, then you could afford a fat, private health care account just like Dr Carson.

And you wonder why that just doesn't resonate with the people who attend failing, useless schools, with parents or siblings at home who might be really sick and need you to drop out of school to help pay the bills.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

David:

"As for health care? Go buy your own health insurance because we can't afford to help you what with our tax cuts, and anyway, if you were successful, then you could afford a fat, private health care account just like Dr Carson."

*

Actually, Dr. Carson is able to afford health care because of the decisions he made.

With the exception of physical or mental incapacity, or being held against our will, we are pretty much a product of our decisions in life--those we make, and those we make by default or just not doing anything.

Dr. Carson chose to do what it took to be able to pay for his own healthcare.

--

As to people who attending failing, useless schools--of course schools should be improved. But parents can do more, there is free tutoring and government and private programs to help the needy and disadvantaged. Yes, some people have to drop out of school to help pay the bills.

My dad did--age age 16 he was told by his stepfather he had to quit high school to work in construction to earn money.
He did as he was told.

You know what? It didn't prevent him from later getting his GED, going to business school, and becoming a very well respected man that owned his own business for years.

Reasons that people don't achieve their potential?
Yes, there are reasons.

I find there are seldom any good excuses.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Its a religious belief - that good decisions, hard work, and personal responsibility will always lead to financial success.

In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Benefits are there for, a safety net; not for someone to make a career of using.

Those benefits that Republicans want to cut because people have not made good decisions. Are those the ones you are talking about?

I find there are seldom any good excuses.

You call them excuses I call them reasons. So did the Supreme Court. Very easy to blame the victim. It is their fault that they are not paid a living wage, or not accepted into the arm service because they are gay. Bad decisions I guess is the answer.

Through using that helping hand in a proper manner and hard work Dr. Carson fulfilled the American Dream and thank goodness is out there trying to encourage others to help themselves.

Yes and thank God we have a President also that proves even when the cards are stacked against you there is a way to get to the top and fulfill your dreams. Even when you get to the top there will be many still there trying to pull you down and doubt you are good enough but you can still hold your head up and smile. Hence the Birthers.

That is the purpose of role models.

The our politicians purpose is to develop and assure those safety nets exist not cut them. That is the difference of the Democratic Party and Republican Party.

I know it makes some feel better when their party tells them they can cut these safety nets because those lazy people have no Personal Responsibility. As I said whatever helps you sleep at night.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 13:19

Its a religious belief - that good decisions, hard work, and personal responsibility will always lead to financial success.

In spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

*

It is not my belief that that is true, and it certainly is not necessarily always a religious belief.

One has to be smart about what type of "good decisions" they make, what type of work they choose to do and how smart they are at the efforts they put into their work, and exercise consistent personal responsibility in order to have the opportunity for financial success.

In more simple terms, simply being good at digging graves and paying your bills won't make one financially successful.

Being good at digging graves and building a business on that can.

It takes planning, work, and all things coming together.

There are no guarantees, but one can certainly improve their odds of financial success by taking charge of their lives--and not complaining.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

ts a religious belief - that good decisions, hard work, and personal responsibility will always lead to financial success.

David, yesterday someone posted that meme to their FB page - they also included 'spiritual somethingorother' to your list.

"That summer I learned that solving poverty is not a matter of government programs or free market fixes. Ultimately, people will only escape the cycle of poverty if their soul is restored, and this occurs through relationships and spiritual renewal. Once this transformation occurs, they are prepared to gain the skills they need to support themselves and to become productive citizens."

It is an item of faith with the new fundies trying to get in the House of Mammon, rejecting Jesus' teachings. Just don't tell that to those faithful in the Springs!


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

demifloyd wrote,

One has to be smart about what type of "good decisions" they make, what type of work they choose to do and how smart they are at the efforts they put into their work, and exercise consistent personal responsibility in order to have the opportunity for financial success.

Can you explain how all those black baseball players before Jackie Robinson were not smart about what type of "good decisions" they made, and how they were not smart at the efforts they put into their work, and how they didn't exercise personal responsibility, which is why they couldn't play major league baseball?

There are no guarantees, but one can certainly improve their odds of financial success by taking charge of their lives--and not complaining.

Are you saying that people should not have protested racial discrimination? That targets of discrimination should just keep quiet?


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Is there any info on how Dr Carson paid his bills for college and medical school?

Doesn't sound like he had the money from family to pay those hefty bills.

Did he get any of those "handouts"? You know things like affirmative action aid, scholarships, loans, etc.

The kind of thing that most students have to obtain to attend college and graduate school?

HMM, could it be that this Doctor had the advantages to go to college and medical school, that the GOP want to end?

Just wondering.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Interesting question, littleone.

Obama talked about this during the campaign. How some would like to slam the door shut after they get through it. While others want to help pull other people through that same door they managed to get through.

To me, it's one of the big differences between the parties.

Those that like to talk about the takers see it as a free ride for the undeserving and lazy. To the rest of us, it's giving others the same opportunities we had. Which in the end is what's best for society.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Would Michelle Obama have been able to achieve the great heights in her education, and thus the sterling career she had, contributing to society and paying her taxes as she did had not some serious aid not been available to her?

What about all the millions who don't soar as high as Mrs. Obama perhaps, but do maintain a financial stability for their family due to their education made possible by aid?

If we take away a reasonable way for a person to acquire as much an education as they wish and are intelligent enough to deal with in the pursuit of a career of their choice, then we reduce the chance for a well educated person to come from all walks of society, making higher education reasonably possible only for the wealthy. That creates an ever deeper class system, which history repeatedly proves is unhealthy for a successful society in the long term.

That is not what this country was ever all about and certainly not what the grand old party once embraced as a direction to head off to. Our republican fathers/grandfathers would be horrified at what the GOP has become and the message it now sends to the vast majority of our country's citizens.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

ml"""""""If we take away a reasonable way for a person to acquire as much an education as they wish and are intelligent enough to deal with in the pursuit of a career of their choice, then we reduce the chance for a well educated person to come from all walks of society, making higher education reasonably possible only for the wealthy."

What happened to working to help pay your way while you were in college? I know more than one person who worked while in college. It took them a little longer to finish but they did it. I think I remember someone on HT posting about how smart their nephew was but they didn't think he should have to work while he was in college because it would take time away from his studies....thought the government should pay his way. I have no problem with student loans, which should be repaid, but if something isn't worth working for, it isn't worth having.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Littleone, You are mistaken. Dr. Carson is not a Republican. Dr. Carson is a conservative and an independent.

What is your source for claiming he's wealthy? I hope you're right!

Our president is worth millions, although he is ten years younger and has spent far fewer years on his education and training than Dr. Carson. Both men were blessed to be born here, and it's wonderful to see what they've achieved in America, the land of opportunity.


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Nik, I suggest you re-read what I posted.

I never stated that Dr Carson is/was a Republican, my reference was to Republicans that want to end the kind of handouts that may have given Dr Carson the advantage and ability to attend college, medical school

I never said that Dr Carson was wealthy, so I have no source to back up a claim that I didn't make.

What President Obama is worth financially has nothing to do with his education, his ability to pay or not pay for his education post HS.

As has been stated in the past both the President and First Lady attended college and graduate schools on loans, scholarships as does most of the college and graduate students today.

So I ask the same questions as I did in my prior post.

"Is there any info on how Dr Carson paid his bills for college and medical school?
Doesn't sound like he had the money from family to pay those hefty bills.

Did he get any of those "handouts"? You know things like affirmative action aid, scholarships, loans, etc.

The kind of thing that most students have to obtain to attend college and graduate school?

HMM, could it be that this Doctor had the advantages to go to college and medical school, that the GOP want to end?

Just wondering."


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RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Well, the problem with working your way through college today vs when we were high school graduates is that wages - particularly for unskilled high school graduates - have stagnated while college tuition / room and board have sky-rocketed. It ain't the same.

Let alone going to Yale, where Dr Carson attended his undergraduate work (now at $50,000 a year, $200,000 for a Bachelors degree), and then onto specialize in neurology in medical school.

Hey, I actually go to a non-wealthy neurologist. They work in rural areas that are so grossly underserved that any appointments are 4 months out.


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