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Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Posted by dicot (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 14:56

SoCal is a LAPD vs everyone manhunt zone today, Torrance police have already shot two motorists in my city for driving a somewhat similar vehicle to work, doing nothing to win the hearts and minds of local residents.

Dorner says some very penetrating things about the LAPD Harbor division in his initially quite coherent rant that devolves into weird pop culture shout outs by the end. It's a harsh read in parts, clearly a suicide note as well, but he lays himself bare and names some names that will have big repercussions around here.

I've lived half my almost 50 years off the Harbor gateway and when cops come at me, they come with deadly intent even if I'm just biking or walking down the street. This has happened to me many times with no citation or arrest, just a very physical, put me on my knees on the concrete while they draw their weapons, stop & frisk and it enrages me, I can only imagine what it does to the teen and young adult residents. I worked with lots of cops when I spent 5 years as a USFS firefighter, none ever made me hate them in moments like Harbor division cops so often have. They want that conflict, they want me to react with physical or verbal violence. They will tell me I seem "agitated" or "high" or whatever to try and justify their next step in ratcheting up the intimidation. I can tell there's a culture of kicking ass and taking names all day long at Harbor division. They aren't the only ones, but much of what Dorner says about them rings true to me, sadly.

LA sheriffs fire 7 deputies today for being a secret clique called the Jump Out Boys that tattooed each other whenever they shot a perp and they didn't seem too hot on the innocent until proven guilty sections of the law while doing it. No wonder so many people around here are anxious all the time and put those fears on their kids. These expensive, over-powered urban police forces are too often a law unto themselves, we need more sunshine and oversight from communities into the police who are supposed to work for better neighborhoods, not turn them into daily battlegrounds.

Here is a link that might be useful: full text of Dorner's manifesto


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Well, now, see, to fight this tyranny from the state, all you need to do is have an 'assault rifle' with you at all times. They would respect you, leave you alone.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Very unfortunately, it's not just an attitude in your neck of the woods... this is too often the attitude seen, even in small town America.

The days of becoming a cop to better your community are long gone. Today, as in the recent past, people become cops to instill fear, to command power, to use that badge and gun as a free ticket to legal violence against the very people they've sworn to serve and protect. Many are no better than the gangs they hunt... except they're protected by their fellow officers, their commanders, and the justice system.

Not all cops are bad... there are a select few that wear their uniforms with pride, serve their communities with integrity, and truly make a positive difference... the only sad thing is, they're a dying breed.

How far does one man have to be pushed to believe that killing and dying are the only way to bring attention and change to the corruption within the ranks of police?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

SoCal is a LAPD vs everyone manhunt zone today

Even the local public radio stations are having a hard time toning it down given the Monica Quan murder, and now the other shootings.

initially quite coherent rant that devolves into weird pop culture shout outs by the end. It's a harsh read in parts, clearly a suicide note as well, but he lays himself bare and names some names that will have big repercussions around here.

Whatever valid point Doner makes in his writing, the LAPD can dismiss every charge as crazy because he stepped over the line into suicidal/homicidal depression. The LAPD fought hard to get off the consent decree, and I think they'll fight even harder to prevent being under a new decree.

Alex Sanchez finally had the trumped-up pay-back charges against him dropped after having some politically- and community-connected big names step up for him. Doner had no such allies.

re L.A. County Sheriff's Department: Those aren't 'cliques' but gangs in the department. First there were the Vikings, Grim Reapers, Little Devils, and Regulators generating legal settlements in excess of $9 million, and now the Jump Out Boys.

Something's rotten in the culture of the Sheriff's Department.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I only read a portion of his manifesto, but WOW!. This guy is on a mission . He seems intelligent and appears to have legitimate gripes, but clearly he's gone over the edge.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Nancy, do you think the Feds or State should ride herd on LAPD or LA Sheriff depts on either a temporary or permanent basis? Something less than a full consent decree, but something that could penetrate past police admin to reach these rogue officers or departments is what I imagine, elected officials seem inept at controlling the police and the general public, media and NGOs sure can't. IDK what the answer is honestly. I only know what my neighbor's face looked like when I explained why he shouldn't drive his large blue truck round Torrance/Lomita/Harbor city today, such a look of such sadness at hearing my news. We deserve better than that.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 17:27

Posted by david52

'Well, now, see, to fight this tyranny from the state, all you need to do is have an 'assault rifle' with you at all times. They would respect you, leave you alone.'-----------This rhetoric is based on what fact?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

do you think the Feds or State should ride herd on LAPD or LA Sheriff depts on either a temporary or permanent basis?

Yes, they are incapable of reforming themselves.

Did you ever read any of Joe Domanick's pieces on the LAPD? After he left the LA Weekly, another reporter took over the beat -- whose name I don't remember. He stated that the next scandal would be the 77th Street precinct, at one time Bernard Park's assignment iirc, and had some teasers. That scandal never broke, and I have often wondered what happened. Obviously the LAPD scandal and corruption had to be contained within the Ramparts Division, and there are accusations that Chief Parks was not cooperative even when it was limited to that division.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Massive manhunt for fired LAPD officer Christopher Dorner leads to San Bernardino Mountains

The manhunt for a former Los Angeles officer suspected of killing three people moved to the San Bernardino Mountains Thursday afternoon, after authorities found a burning truck near Big Bear Lake that matched the description of Christopher Dorner's vehicle.

Authorities suspect Dorner may hiding in the area, and law enforcement units are staging in Big Bear Lake, Running Springs, Arrowbear and Twin Peaks. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department and the Calfornia Highway Patrol have deployed helicopters to help in the search.

At noon officials began evacuating and locking down local schools and resorts at Bear Mountain and Snow Summit.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 17:58

"good guys with guns gone bad"


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Ah, now it's out by brother in law's neighborhood. Have to give him a call. Dorner certainly took the lowest road possible by killing the daughter of the captain he hated and is full Rambo mode now, it seems. No idea how this ends, but Dorner won't be easily forgotten, just ignored because of his homicidal actions.

Never read any of those articles, Nancy, but I remember hearing something about Parks and a scandal. I bike to Florence and Vermont and take pics of the house my mom grew up in every year or two, then I gtfo before I become a target. It's a legitimately scary place for most people from outside the area to walk around in, but that certainly doesn't mean the residents give up their civil rights because they live in a high crime area.

I like how that linked article starts with Dorner's truck burning, then ends with a description of it to watch out for. :)


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 19:24

So police in pursuit of Dorner have now shot two "innocent women" who happened to have a similar truck as his and also shot at another vehicle, fortunately the man inside was not hit.

What is this the "wild wild west" ?

This guy sounds more than "armed and dangerous", scary.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

He has an interesting target list:

Those Caucasian officers who join South Bureau divisions (77th,SW,SE, an Harbor) with the sole intent to victimize minorities who are uneducated, and unaware of criminal law, civil law, and civil rights. You prefer the South bureau because a use of force/deadly force is likely and the individual you use UOF on will likely not report it. You are a high value target.

Those Black officers in supervisory ranks and pay grades who stay in south bureau (even though you live in the valley or OC) for the sole intent of getting retribution toward subordinate caucasians officers for the pain and hostile work environment their elders inflicted on you as probationers (P-1's) and novice P-2's. You are a high value target. You perpetuated the cycle of racism in the department as well. You breed a new generation of bigoted caucasian officer when you belittle them and treat them unfairly.

Those Hispanic officers who victimize their own ethnicity because they are new immigrants to this country and are unaware of their civil rights. You call them wetbacks to their face and demean them in front of fellow officers of different ethnicities so that you will receive some sort of acceptance from your colleagues. I'm not impressed. Most likely, your parents or grandparents were immigrants at one time, but you have forgotten that. You are a high value target.

Those lesbian officers in supervising positions who go to work, day in day out, with the sole intent of attempting to prove your misandrist authority (not feminism) to degrade male officers. You are a high value target.

Those Asian officers who stand by and observe everything I previously mentioned other officers participate in on a daily basis but you say nothing, stand for nothing and protect nothing. Why? Because of your usual saying, " I......don't like conflict". You are a high value target as well.

He has a real problem with different races... I notice that all races are listed as high value targets. Edit: He lists black officers as high value targets as well. This guy hates everyone.

And has a thing against lesbians as well.

Or more likely he just views any woman with authority over him as a lesbian?

This post was edited by hamiltongardener on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 19:50


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

when police go bad you have no choice but to defend yourself. Police are human to but they sometimes go bad.

This also proves that even minorities can hold racist views.
If they catch him alive will he be charged with hate crime.
Also rogue cops of this type can be hard to catch since they understand police tactics.
I am sure this is not first rogue cop to go on a rampage and it will not be last.

The quote "who watches the watchers seems" to fit this killing spree.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I saw a large warning notice and a photo of Dorner on one of the electronic billboards that blight L.A.'s Westside. The LAPD notice was in rotation with the usual commercial garbage.


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I have very little information on what his background is or why he thinks targeting people who may not have supported him or who may have opposed him is ok but - cop, ex cop, or citizen, it is not ok to go out & kill people. If there is a problem with the L.A.P.D. and based on what goes on in Seattle, I wouldn't be surprized if there is, it still doesn't justify his actions. He appears to be another person with mental issues who has access to guns and he knows how to use them to have the greatest impact. (Possibly one of the longest run-on sentences ever, but I'm too tired to edit further.)


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Well the people he targeted are good guys with guns, so they should be able to defend themselves. And they will protect the public (as to accidentally shooting them,)


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He's interested in politics, and is a big fan of Chris Matthews, Piers Morgan, Soledad O'Brien, and the Obamas.

Are MSNBC or Soledad O'Brien, or any other individuals responsible for his actions?

No more than Fox News and Sarah Palin are responsible for Jared Loughner or Sandy Hook.

This man was not set off by television networks or celebrities. He's obsessed with revenge against a long list of real or perceived enemies.

May his next "high value target" be a crack shot armed with the fully loaded weapon of his or her choice, and prepared to engage in the right to self-defense against this violent, merciless predator. Exactly as our founders intended.


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Wow, is Dorner a flaming narcissist or what?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 13:12

Am I the only one here who thinks the LAPD is reaping what it sowed?

Please note, I am NOT suggesting that Dorner's actions are right or justifiable -- only that from what he has written I can understand what drove him over the edge. When a person holds clear and firm moral standards, as it seems Dormer did, seeing those standards flouted by those who are supposed to enforce them? Well, that's infuriating.

The hypocrisy.
The retaliation.
The outright thuggery.

Frankly, I believe Dorner's manifesto is more true than not. I suspect his portrayal of how the LAPD treated him after his whistle-blowing is substantially accurate. Sure, it's his side of the story, his own impressions of how he was treated. But he provided enough facts that should allow his story to be checked.

I hope someone does check. Someone NOT involved in the initial investigation, and NOT tied to the LAPD or law enforcement in general. The promotion records of the officers in question are public record.

Yeah, he didn't process the "Life's not fair" lesson well. Life isn't fair. Sometimes cheaters do prosper. Sometimes Karma is just too darned slow.

But all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. And it sounds like Dorner was (once) one of those good men who reached the point where he could no longer stand by and do nothing.

I hope the LAPD has one BIG shake-up after this...


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I agree, Sweeby. I think this guy was once one of the good ones. I believe the LAPD IS one big corrupt organization , and Dorner just broke.I didn't read the whole manifesto but it seems to be relatively well written. Of course I abhor the way he's trying to get attention to his grievances, but he certainly will now.

He will be dead, killed by his former comrades but this still needs to be investigated.

By the way, the good men with guns shot up a car with innocent women delivering paper and seriously hurt them. So much for arming the teachers etc. THESE ARE the GOOD guys, and two women are in the hospital. They better hope they don't die.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

The truck 71 year old Emma Hernandez and her 47 year old daughter Margie Carranza were in, delivering LA Times papers around the Torrance/Redondo border.

"...The problem with the situation is it looked like the police had the goal of administering street justice and in so doing, didn't take the time to notice that these two older, small Latina women don't look like a large black man," their lawyer said.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Ditto sweeby.


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but this still needs to be investigated.

Exactly right. LAPD is nothing more than another well organized street gang, and have been for decades. The ONLY thing that's going to straighten them out is for the CHP or Feds to take over, permanently, or atleast for the long term.

Am I the only one here who thinks the LAPD is reaping what it sowed?

Not at all. You've got atleast one supporter in that premise. Well said on the rest of your post, as well.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Ditto to Sweeby, Chisue & Bill. From the looks of that truck, the thinking may be "dead men tell no tales". Ya think?


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My thoughts exactly. I imagine the "warning shot" was fatal while the others 25 plus were just a bit of exuberance.


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Perfect, Dicot.

And there are those who say that only law enforcement and the military should have firearms, because they are "trained"...


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 10:46

"From the looks of that truck, the thinking may be "dead men tell no tales". Ya think?"

Exactly.
And it seems he's already told a few too many tales.

Love the picture Dicot!


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I smell a couple of TV movies. Who will play Dorner?

And no, I'm not making light of this situation so put your clubs down. It is what it is.


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Are guys like this a reason for the 2nd amendment? and the right to protect ones self. Or, if he came to visit you, would you simply say 'do with me as you would'.


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Isn't Dorner doing exactly what some claim the 2nd Ammendment is all about? Taking up arms against what he perceives to be tyranny?

Point being that tyranny is in the mind of the gun-toting beholder.

Yet larger society thinks he's a dangerous nut. Just like all the other cases when armed resistance against self-identified tyranny rears its head - Oklahoma city bombing, assorted politically based police shootings, Waco, etc. Now with the new, improved "terrorism" label.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I fail to seee any connection David, none at all.. The man is a rogue.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Well, he seems to think that he's fighting the righteous fight. I think he's a dangerous kook.

The point I'm trying to make is that "tyranny" is in the mind of the beholder.

Some of us deplore - while some of us cheer on - the use of secret kidnapping, torture, and extra-judicial killings in the name of fighting terrorism. Looks like tyranny to me, but hey.


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  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 12:53

I've got to agree with David here -- "Tyranny" absolutely IS in the mind of the beholder, and from his manifesto, it seems abundantly clear that this is exactly how Dormer views his situation.

Rambo anyone?

Even Dormer argues against unfettered gun rights if you read that far. Who needs an AK-47 for any legitimate non-military purpose?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 13:02

Where is my post? I said, facetiously, that the women would have been better off shooting back and today it is gone.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

A 'rogue cop' is called rogue because he is abnormal. I'm still in favor of guns only in the hands of the police and military -- who are at least trained when NOT to shoot -- unlike an armed Joe Citizen playing hero in the movie in his mind.

We're back to the 'well ordered militia' -- applies to police departments too. This situation looks like a whole rogue department or section. This can happen anywhere: LA, Chicago, Boston, Oakland...and crops up over the decades.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

David is exactly right .Dorner is fighting what he perceives as tyranny like all the other gun wackos. It is odd that he praises Feinstein and want bans on some weapons. You can bet there are many cheering him on, while the rest of us are appalled.There a lot more people like him who have stashes of guns and will cause future trouble. Dorner will be their hero.


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OF COURSE he'd praise Feinstein! She's no different-- she wants to take guns from every single OTHER citizen.... except her. She has a concealed carry permit, and DOES exercise it.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

There certainly are gun wackos, we see that all too often. Taking guns from everyone who is not serves no purpose.

By the way, gun safetly courses around the country are swamped with new gun owners wanting to learn how to handle fire-arms. Waiting lists to get in. This appears to be a good sign of new gun owners desiring to be properly trained in the use of arms.


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The problem, ff, is that wackos do not perceive themselves to be wackos. They think they are "normal" and fervantly support their right to bear arms, even though they are wackos to others who get nervous about the gun-toting wackos.

Kate


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 13:02

"Where is my post? I said, facetiously, that the women would have been better off shooting back and today it is gone."

Not. You posted on the wrong thread. I've been wondering what the heck you were talking about over there on that thread. Here:

RE: Dr. Benjamin Carson

Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Fri, Feb 8, 13 at 16:49

"Too bad the women didn't have their own military-style weapons that they shot back with. That would have made the situation so much better for them."


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

bill_vincent wrote,

She has a concealed carry permit, and DOES exercise it.

False.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Most of what I'm reading on this thread is speculation larded with ones' favorite talking points and cliches. Dorner is as American as the 2nd Amendement and fits in with our rooting for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

"favorite talking points and cliches."

Guilty; I said "dead men tell no tales". Mea culpa big time.

But seriously, I can imagine a movie about the Dorner scenario on the horizon.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

All's I can say is it's about time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yeah, it's Fox.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 23:28

From Bill's link: "A captain who was named a target in the manifesto posted on Facebook told the Orange County Register he has not stepped outside his house since he learned of the threat, and he was taking it seriously"

....now wait just one doggone minute, we have been told repeatedly (just bout' a hundred times) that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, and this armed dude is "hiding under the bed"???


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

he's a captain,politics gets ya that slot, the grunts do the real work.


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OM-- being targeted is something completely different. Back in the 60's there used to be an organization called Murder Inc.. They were basically contract killers for hire, and after their organization was broken up, in interviews afterward, it was said, and rightly so, that anyone can be hit. If I were targeted, I'd take that to heart.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

in quote from an unnamed LAPD officer" Dorner may be hard to capture since he knows the LAPD's training and tactics.
I take this to mean he will be killed or will use the LAPD's standard assumptions against them and be very hard to to take down.


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Not like Dorner will find it easy to blend into the community, unless it's in Watts or some other Black neighborhood. There he should worry about all those bounty hunters looking for a quick score at his expense.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

marshall as city or suburb with mid sides African American population would be easy for Dorner to hide in. Given the amount time since he has been seen and time of finding his burned truck he could in any of 48 states by now. He could have also changed his appearance. it took then over 30 years to catch Whitey Bulger. if he was smart enough to have false identity,food cache and excess cash put aside. he just has to go to ground and wait till the publicity dies down. if he is someplace with harsh winter weather it would be easy to hide his face if he is not well hidden.
once publicity dies down he might kill again.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Cob, I figure his ego is thriving on the notoriety and he would have trouble lying low for long. I read his manifesto in full. While some much consider him a folk hero, to others he's still the "man" and one with a big reward for turning him in.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I also read the whole manifesto. This guy is not going to leave the state or try to get away with what he's done. He's on a mission, and he knows he's going to die in the end. Unfortunately, he's not done yet.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

He could have also changed his appearance.

Yes, putting on a toupee would fool everybody.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Most likely he planned this very intricately, so hiding is part of the plan. He probably has cars planted and places he can "bury" himself.

I can't imagine how frightened his targets and their families are.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

This guy is very clever and is laughing at the millions which are being spent trying to find him. He's probably a better cop than most of the people on the force in training and subterfuge. I'll bet he's not in the mountains where they've spent days looking. He'll hole up and then strike. He probably had another vehicle nearby the burned out one.

I didn't read the whole manifesto but I agree with some of it. LAPD has had a bad rep for years and now even when Dorner is dead, this will be investigated so he will have won. I probably would have liked the sane Dorner but clearly he's a sociopath now and over the edge.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 15:34

Hopefully it will be investigated.

In a way that produces a useful outcome.

LAPD has been looked at for years and yet here we are.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

david52 there other ways to disguise you identity besides a toupee. As for this guy I think the LAPD will have hard time catching him.
if he has police scanner it will be even harder.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 19:19

What I don't understand is why the "2nd Amenders" aren't cheering him on, after all we have been told this is the purpose of the "2nd" to fight "tyranny of the authorities".

Dorner is your "dream come true" ...


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Ohio: "What I don't understand is why the "2nd Amenders" aren't cheering him on, after all we have been told this is the purpose of the "2nd" to fight "tyranny of the authorities".
Dorner is your "dream come true" ..."

What can you even be thinking, saying that. I don't want an answer.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 20:08

What can I be thinking? I am simply repeating what has been "preached to the rest of us" by the 2nd amenders on this forum.

Dorner is just doing what the rest of you "claim" is the reason for the 2nd Amendment.

As far as the innocents that are killed by guns, why what is it they are called ?? Ah yes ... "collateral damage".

See how easy it is to convince me of the righteousness of your cause.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Ohio, that's very strange. I think I'll mosey on to a different thread...


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Guys, I don't think the term "sociopath" is applicable here. In reading the manifesto, I see a guy who knows full well the difference between right and wrong (moreso than some of his peers it seems...), and has chosen this path as a last resort. Martyr would be more accurate I think. I have been through what Mr. Dorner has been through. Let me tell you - it eats at you. Trying to do the right thing seems innocent enough, then to have it turned against you and to have your name smeared by the people sworn to serve and protect - it changes a person. You know what's worse though??? Not knowing whether your call for assistance is going to be ignored, or whether you are going to get caught in the "crossfire". This above the law culture has been festering for generations. I got out. My intentions were to make a change for the better. I was content to get out minus a bit of my sanity.

I certainly don't agree with Mr. Dorners' methods, but honestly I don't see how change can take place any other way.

Have the chickens come home to roost, Chief Beck???


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

bill_vincent wrote,

OF COURSE he'd praise Feinstein! She's no different-- she wants to take guns from every single OTHER citizen.... except her. She has a concealed carry permit, and DOES exercise it. (emph. added)

In case you missed it, this is false. Looking for a retraction, Bill.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

mom, I was kinda surprised re: your post just above?? It makes no sense?

feinstein carried a gun, she said she did, she is above having a permit??


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Joe Citizen *knows* he's 'a good guy'. Dorner *knows* he is one too.

The NRA-generated paranoia over an evil government takeover wants all the 'good guys' armed. Dorner is armed and fighting what he believes to be an evil branch of government -- his former police department.

Other nations with gun control laws know that Joe Citizen may or may not be 'a good guy', but they know he isn't continually training to overcome his primal instinct to shoot when he feels threatened. That's why he shouldn't be 'out there' armed with *any* gun.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 7:31

Thank you chisue, that is what I was saying above, man fighting against the tyrannical government,, and he is "locked and loaded" ... coming to a theater near you (one poster even suggested a film about it).


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Rambo writ large; an urban version of a unique oppressed fully armed and trained member of another minority.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

he is just getting revenge because he believes he was falsely accused and scapegoated. . the second Amendment has nothing to do with this. since there are other legal way to get revenge without killing people.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 11:03

BUT it is has been stated repeatedly on this forum that the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to "fight against tyranny".

That is what Dorner is doing, fighting against what he sees as the "tyranny of a government agency", he says so in his manifesto.

Like I said Dorner is a 2nd Amenders dream come true because he is proving their point about "fighting against tyranny" ... you either believe your own words, or you don't. Which is it?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I would think, and I would think that reasonable people would think, that tyranny would not reasonably be defined as perceived or real transgressions from employers.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Except the employers are agents of government and represent the coercive force of government.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Fair point Marshall, but were they acting individually, or at the behest of the authority of government as a whole?

That's the difference, in my opinion.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

A fair point backacha; however, the institution of the LAPD has a history of corruption and unlawful behavior. Do we blame the individuals or the culture that nurtured and sustained such behavior?

Off to work with me and my plants


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 11:49

A fair point backacha; however, the institution of the LAPD has a history of corruption and unlawful behavior. Do we blame the individuals or the culture that nurtured and sustained such behavior?

Off to work with me and my plants

*

I believe of course in the personal responsibility end of that query--regardless of a culture of abuse of position and authority in which one is employed, it is up to the individual whether they succumb to committing wrongs.

Enjoy your day with your plants.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

who is to blame for the corruptiion and unlawful behaviour of the dept.? Unlike sherrifs, police chiefs are political appointments by mayors. Corrupt mayors appoint corrupt chiefs who head corrupt departments. When citizens elect these mayors, should they expect more, or should they pay more attention to who they vote for.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I feel the burning desire to put in my .02

I have two people in my family who drive vehicles similar to the vehicle Dorner was driving. In other words, a truck with doors that is blue or grey. It was not at first apparent that the police shot those innocent women- from first appearances it seemed Dorner had shot them.

When I learned that the police had shot the truck with the women, and the other truck.... that's when I started digging myself, and discovered how coherent his "rambling manifesto" really was.

Since then, I've spoken to several friends and colleagues about this unfolding story and it's surprising how many of them are willing to excuse the LAPD because they must have been "scared".

I'm sorry. There is NO EXCUSE for the LAPD shooting those women. Those officers should be fired, immediately. I don't care how scared they were. That's their job. They know it, they are trained for it, and their first job is to PROTECT AND DEFEND. Not shoot and ask questions later. The image of that shot up truck, knowing that I too have a "similar enough" truck that it could have been me and my daughter, half a dozen of my S. Cal relatives and a handful of friends who were shot that day.

I am not advocating Dorner's actions. He took the low road, as someone said above. But as someone who has spoken out against illegality and been severely reprimanded for it - including discrimination and harassment on the job, I can understand his frustration.

So, who do we blame? I say, we blame us. It's all too easy to not care when the system is discriminating against "other" people. When we see wrongdoing, STEP UP and stand by those who are brave enough to talk.

I hold Dorner accountable for his actions. But I hold the LAPD responsible for him as well.

I'm not a big gun person. But this does make me think... when the cops say to trust them, and they're the ones with the guns.... and they're cool with shooting first and asking questions later...

The LAPD shot innocent citizens in the back. Beck has called the incident "a tragic misinterpretation" by officers working under "incredible tension" hours after Dorner allegedly shot three police officers, one fatally.

This is not a misinterpretation. This is either bad training or Dorner was more correct than we want to give credit.

As a truck owner/driver, I'm thinking of renting a small car.... (j/k.... kinda....)


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Good to see you back SS.

I agree--the shooting of the women pretty much said it all.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I hope thru Dorner's manifesto that the corruption in the LAPD is exposed once and for all. I DO think they ruined his life ,and I believe much of what he said. Of course his actions are inexcusable.

A fine example is the 23 bullets the police fired into a car which wasn't even the same model Dorner drove ,and wounded two short Hispanic women, one 72 years old. In whose mine do two tiny women look like a 300 pound black guy? No one was supposed to walk away from that car.

But then these are the good guys with guns which we want in every school in the country.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Hi Demi! Thanks :)

"David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way.

Seconds later, Perdue's attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire; none of the bullets struck Perdue.

His pickup, police later explained, matched the description of the one belonging to Christopher Jordan Dorner � the ex-cop who has evaded authorities after allegedly killing three and wounding two more.

But the pickups were different makes and colors. And Perdue looks nothing like Dorner: He's several inches shorter and about a hundred pounds lighter. And Perdue is white; Dorner is black."

"I don't want to use the word buffoonery but it really is unbridled police lawlessness," said Robert Sheahen, Perdue's attorney. "These people need training and they need restraint."

Above from LA Times....

So, the police EXPLAINED that the trucks descriptions matched, but they didn't, and he was mistaken for Dorner but he was the wrong color too????? What the.....? Do they have to take color recognition tests? How on Earth do they apprehend suspects in other cases? How is anyone going to trust their judgement ever again? Why aren't more heads rolling?

Another point is that we (Californians) are paying for police to stand outside the chiefs house and protect him and his family, along with a bunch of other police who are supposedly in danger.

Put them all out at 29 Palms or Pendleton and let the military protect them. Why the heck are we paying for this? If a criminal had threatened his sex abuse victims or civilians the police would not be standing guard like this.

If I were the chief's neighbors, I'd be demanding they get out of the hood. Stray bullets from the "protectors" could go anywhere.

Being scared does not excuse them from attempted murder any more than if I were scared and hit someone and killed them that I'd be let off.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Well, I don't think its surprising at all when the police react this way, as they know the guy is heavily armed with semi-automatic weapons with expanded magazines and knows how to use them.

Much like the arms race is going on everywhere in the country - the more powerful and deadly civilian arms become, the more powerful and oppressive the force that the police use against suspects.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Couldn't have said it better myself, SS. Thank you. Chief Beck knows better than anyone that putting officers on the street who are not mentally fit to do the job is a gross violation of department policy. Incredible tension is part of the job - vengeance is not. Any officer suffering from tension or stress that they can't handle should be relieved until they are judged fit for duty again. Period. It's in the policy manual. I would think that as sensitive as LA is to liability that they would exert more control over the department. THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. The city has no control. Corruption is so ingrained that I'm suprised it's not part of the curriculum at the academy. Maybe it is by now.
These people who were shot or shot at - these victims of a "tragic misinterpretation" - I hope they secure high profile representation. They deserve this situation to be front and center in the news and in the courts for some time to come. Examples need to be made of the people in charge and accountability should be demanded.

I used to enjoy being around fellow officers. We all had common goals and it was a good job. Not anymore. The utter arrogance exhibited by some of these people just makes me sad that I help pay their salaries. I see very little difference between them and the "gangs" that we are supposedly being protected from.

And to all the good officers out there - you know who you are. LAPD is too far gone. Get your families and get out of there. Go to a jurisdiction where they appreciate and reward decent officers. The pay and benefits may not be as good, but maybe you won't have to worry about one of your fellow officers shooting you in the back because he or she was under "incredible tension".

Last I heard 50 police officers/families had around the clock police protection. This sounds like 50 police officers who have something to worry about besides Dorner.

You guys more familiar with CA FED answer me this - what does the FED have to gain by allowing all of this activity to go on for so long? RICOH has to apply. Is our FED Prosecuter that weak???

Just thinkin' out loud..


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

�Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 7:31

"Thank you chisue, that is what I was saying above, man fighting against the tyrannical government,, and he is "locked and loaded" ... coming to a theater near you (one poster even suggested a film about it)."

---------

Um, no. Just remarked that there might be one. Anyone want to take bets on that?

�Posted by elvis 4b WI (My Page) on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 11:59

"I smell a couple of TV movies. Who will play Dorner?
And no, I'm not making light of this situation so put your clubs down. It is what it is."

And later, this thread: "But seriously, I can imagine a movie about the Dorner scenario on the horizon.:


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Looks like they have him cornered.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Are they sure it isn't LL Cool j?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Shouldn't the writing be on the back? :(


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Watching the media frenzy right now at Big Bear, I can't help but feel that this Hollywood sequel won't be better than the version with Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin.

Here is a link that might be useful: Death Hunt


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Watched the clip just now. You're probably right.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Conveniently dead by gunshot and everything burned beyond recognition.

Don't hold your breath for meaningful change in LAPD -- not to say there will be no 'investigation'.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

Hmmm. It would be something else if they identified the body (assuming there is one), and it's not Dorner.


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

I was thinking the same thing. What if the body isn't his?


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RE: Ex-LAPD officer Dorner turns cop killer.

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 13, 13 at 11:52

Wonder where I can get that T-shirt?
That one needs to go viral.


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