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Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 15:16

Hopkins' Dr. Benjamin Carson anointed new Fox darling of the right on Hannity

......the big story that seemed to mostly sail under the radar was the embattled channel's hour-long, full-right-wing, all-out, let's-give-a-big-big-hug coronation later in the evening of Dr. Benjamin Carson, the famous neurosurgeon at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins Hospital, who made headlines for what he had to say Feb. 7 at the National Prayer Breakfast.....

And it's impossible not to believe the brass at Fox News is thinking; Carson could be the one. This could be the messiah we have been waiting for. Let's stack up Obama's credentials against his, and see who wins. This guys saves children in the operating room.

I can only hope that Dr. Carson has the good sense to run like hell from Fox after this. It can only harm him.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

It's absolutely OK that the right is latching on to this man.They would be fools not to.

However I can't imagine him latching on to FOX and using his gifts and talents for that type of personal and partisan gain. If he does my opinion of him will drop .....not that it matters much.

As a man above it all , his message resonated, if he enters the sty then he is just one of the many.


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Harm him with who mom? Liberals? His appeal is to conservatives. Very much so. So, I would think FOX is the strongest venue for his political message. I don't really see Dr. Carson sitting down with Chris Matthews and being heard, any more than I see Pres. Obama sitting down with Hannity.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 17:29

Harm him with the medical community, especially in Baltimore, and at Johns Hopkins. This sort of public political stance is frowned on.


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Mrs, do you honestly believe that Matthews is as partisan as Hannity? Don't get me wrong. Matthews is a blowhard, but Hannity is blatant liar.


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momj47 Dr Carson has never been bashful regarding
his views on anything and has always been readily public with his opinions and he is still the most respected
Dr. in his field and within the medical world period.

I can't imagine why you would have thought in Baltimore
and within John Hopkins he would be judged by his political views.
That would be far from accurate. He is so admired and respected for his brilliant gift and his knowledge that his
political views would not define who he is as a Dr.

Besides he is one of the nicest guys you would ever meet or talk with according to my son that he would be above trying to offend anyone with his views.

He does believe in freedom of speech and he sure states
his views in a nice mannerly way. No hollering or bad mouthing for him.....:)


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he is still the most respected
Dr. in his field and within the medical world period.

Athough he is renowned that statement is quite an exaggeration and would be disputed by many. There are many doctors in his field, and others within the medical world, that few have heard of that are as as respected as he.


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Frank: "Mrs, do you honestly believe that Matthews is as partisan as Hannity? Don't get me wrong. Matthews is a blowhard, but Hannity is blatant liar."

Frank, that's like saying cat poop smells better than dog poop. ;-)


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epip you say it is an exaggeration and would be disputed by many and you know this how?
Do you have someone in that field of medicine that you have spoken with.

I made a statement based on information I received first
hand from my son.
Dr, Carson is highly respected and well know for his
views but it seems his personal views have not taken
anything away from the admiration and respect given him by colleagues and the medical world.
In world I did not mean ...the universe....The medical
world is not vast when it comes to one who is highly
respected and renowned.

I just think its pretty sad when he is having to be defended as a human being because the liberals have
their noses out of joint over the Dr


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 19:43

That is quite an exaggeration. He is very talented and respected but he certainly doesn't walk on water, period.

I also work for Johns Hopkins Medicine, and I know the policies about becoming involved in controversial or political issues, as a representative, officially or unofficially, of Johns Hopkins.


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"Frank: "Mrs, do you honestly believe that Matthews is as partisan as Hannity? Don't get me wrong. Matthews is a blowhard, but Hannity is blatant liar."
Frank, that's like saying cat poop smells better than dog poop. ;-)"

I appreciate the joke, but Hannity is a calculating, bad person. Matthews is harmless. Very seldom does he say something about a Conservative that is entirely untrue. Hannity makes a living at it.


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My impression of Hannity versus someone like Matthews or Maddow is that Hannity is favored by the right because he attacks liberals and occasionally has a fact or two behind his rants. The left has different expectations of the two M's. Most would die of embarrassment if the two M's behaved like Hannity.

IMHO


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Since I don't watch Hannity, I'll have to take your word for it. But I have watched Chris Matthews and he is so partisan. But it's ok, like probably Hannity, at least there is no question about it.


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Matthews has always been partisan, working as Congressional staffer and in other roles for Democrats and the Party. I have heard Matthews really take after Democrats, usually for not being Democrat enough but also for corruption and other signs of malfeasance. I can't stand to watch more than a few minutes of his blustery presence. Often he appears on other programs as a representative of the Dem. Party interests to explain policy and history. He really knows the Belt Way and how it works, gets along with politicians and lobbyists of all stripes, except the most extreme. He'd love to be a US Senator.


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I don't care for hannity or matthews (can you tell?), so I'm not gonna split hairs over who's "worser". ;)


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Talk about a Messiah......

I find it so sad the way some are trying to use this man and his talents to a political end. I am quite sure the good Doctor is way above this petty political nonsense but maybe not , maybe he wants the political limelight...we will see.

There is no doubt that he is a gifted pediatric neurosurgeon but he is not alone in the field.

This is the guy that saved my neice when at age 10 she suffered a massive stroke. He is also world renowned in the area of pediatric neurology.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Peter Dirks...


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

That is quite an exaggeration. He is very talented and respected but he certainly doesn't walk on water, period.

I know the policies about becoming involved in controversial or political issues, as a representative, officially or unofficially, of Johns Hopkins.

Mom, I agree. Besides policy I can also see how this could possiblity detrimentally affect funding for any future medical projects of his if there are any.

epip you say it is an exaggeration and would be disputed by many and you know this how?
Do you have someone in that field of medicine that you have spoken with.

Google for one example will give you the names of others from institutions around the world. Do some background on them and you will see there is, fortunately, more than one. There is no disputing that Dr. Carson is talented and well respected in his field but there are others as well.

Since I seem to have to validate my opinion I will answer your question, like you I have family members in the medical profession but even moreso I am exposed to people like Dr. Carson through my profession. As I have said many times I am a fundraiser and my work includes projects involving some esteemed medical institutions around the world including children's hospitals, as well as working with/for some organizations that provide medical care and services abroad. So yes, I am very confident to reiterate your statement is an exaggeration but as I said earlier anyone could have disputed your claim just by doing a little bit of easy research. No validation needed.


just think its pretty sad when he is having to be defended as a human being because the liberals have
their noses out of joint over the Dr

I've seen nothing of what you describe. .Based on these posts most people seem to find Dr. Carson for the most part praise worthy.

All I see are opinions and valid criticisms about him positioning himself as a face of the Republican Party and associating himself with Fox News. Doctors of his stature usually won't publicly align themselves politically with one party or with a biased media source like Fox. There are good reasons as Mom stated above.


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I'm finding the only people being critical of the good Dr. and tagging him as the face of the Rep Party are the liberals and Democrats..
I never heard him say he was a Republican. I never heard him say he wanted to run for anything.
I don't think mom can speak for John Hopkins policy on this . I doubt John Hopkins has a policy saying a Dr. has to keep his mouth shut on his political views.
That would clearly be a move to censor freedom of speech.

I'm sure we could beat this subject to a pulp but I'm not going to .
I just think its sad that this Dr. will end up being ruined
by the media and the left because he dared to take an opposite view from the left.
Very sad indeed.

epip:
All I see are opinions and valid criticisms about him positioning himself as a face of the Republican Party and associating himself with Fox News. Doctors of his stature usually won't publicly align themselves politically with one party or with a biased media source like Fox. There are good reasons as Mom stated above.


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"I just think its sad that this Dr. will end up being ruined
by the media and the left because he dared to take an opposite view from the left.
Very sad indeed."

The doctor will be fine. I think most of the people on the board just think that he would be better off if he tries to avoid becoming a regular contributor on FOX. It generally does not lend credibility (no matter how accomplished you are).


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Spot on Frank.

I don't think mom can speak for John Hopkins policy on this . I doubt John Hopkins has a policy saying a Dr. has to keep his mouth shut on his political views.

That makes no sense. She is the perfect person to speak for JH since she works there. She certainly knows more about the institution than anyone else on this board including you or I.

I don't profess to know what JH's are or if they are applicable in this case but I am positive that many, if not most, insititutions have policies in place for a number of reasons including one I already mentioned, funding. Some actions could cause donors to stop supporting the insitution. Other reasons could include their charters require the institution to be non-partisan and / or non-sectarian, etc. In which case doctors would have signed an agreement to not publicly speak about certain topics. That would not be censorship.

.


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How naive, CW.

Every employer has policies about speech. And an employee can be fired for what they say.

I have nothing but respect for Dr. Carson; at JH Medicine he is one among many stars, and keeps a very low profile, so these recent public comments are rather surprising.

I have no objections to what Dr. Carson said at the Prayer Breakfast, I agree with most of it, and I have no objections to what HE said on Fox News, but he must tread carefully now. Faux News has a rather unsavory reputation, especially among scientists, so aligning himself with Faux News may tarnish his own reputation, and lessen his effectiveness, and become a distraction for his foundation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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CW, it is interesting how you interpret things.

This Liberal doesn't have her nose out of joint because of the Dr. Far from it. Like every liberal who had posted here , I have great respect for the man.

What I find sad is how people are using him to advance they're own political agenda. You don't see him hitting the Sunday talk shows. Appearing on cable networks, such as FOX , is not something I would expect of a doctor of his stature.

Frank is right though, the good doctor will be just fine and I suspect he is in no way interested in becoming a mouthpiece for FOX.


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Does anyone else think that choosing to make a political speech at a Prayer breakfast is inappropriate?
I always thought this was a politics free event.
You know , prayerfully come together and pray for the country.


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Yes. It should be kept unifying. But it's also hypocritical to pray for humility and then get back to the rhetoric immediately following the Amen.

IMO, President Obama was political at last year's prayer breakfast, but I didn't hear anything about it at HT.

I wish a simple prayer would make us humble but it doesn't and it won't work in Washington either.


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Much ado about nothing. Since Dr. Carson is retiring from Johns Hopkins in June anyway, I think it doesn't much matter what they think of his political views.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 10:25

He is retiring from his surgery post, but not as Professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. At least not yet.


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From today's This Week...

On Sunday, Carson criticized some of President Obama’s policies but also called him a “very talented politician.”

“There are a number of policies that I don’t believe lead to the growth of our nation and don’t lead to the elevation of our nation,” Carson added. “I don’t want to sit here and say all of his policies are bad.”


He also offered his diagnosis for today’s political environment.


“What I would like to see more often in this nation is an open and intelligent conversation, not people just casting aspersions at each other,” Carson said on “This Week.” “I mean, it’s unbelievable to me the way people act like third graders. And if somebody doesn’t agree with them, they’re this and they’re that and, you know ��" it comes from both sides. And it’s just so infantile.”


As for his own ambitions, Carson, 61, is retiring from practicing medicine this summer. But he told Jonathan Karl he’s not ruling out a future bid for political office.


“That’s not my intention,” he said. “But I always say, ‘I’ll leave that up to God.’”

Here is a link that might be useful: This Week


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"That makes no sense. She is the perfect person to speak for JH since she works there. She certainly knows more about the institution than anyone else on this board including you or I."

I thought anecdotal "knowledge" was pretty much treated in a dismissive manner on HT, for a variety of (valid) reasons, no doubt.


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I thought anecdotal "knowledge" was pretty much treated in a dismissive manner on HT, for a variety of (valid) reasons, no doubt.

*

Only with certain posters. ;)


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CW, I've looked up and down and tried to find those liberals critical of the good doctor as a doctor or a philanthropist. Odd that I didn't find anything other the normal growling of some about FOX.


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I don't think that a person on the inside of an organization and familiar with its policies who comments on those policies can be accused of being anecdotal. The organization to which I belong has policies. If I comment on what those policies because I am familiar with them, my comments are not anecdotal.


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“This Week.” “I mean, it’s unbelievable to me the way people act like third graders. And if somebody doesn’t agree with them, they’re this and they’re that and, you know ��" it comes from both sides. And it’s just so infantile.”

This is what happens when you take part of your self-identity from outside yourself. We see the same behavior around sports teams, guns, patriotism, dog people, Star Trek, etc.


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I don't think that a person on the inside of an organization and familiar with its policies who comments on those policies can be accused of being anecdotal. The organization to which I belong has policies. If I comment on what those policies because I am familiar with them, my comments are not anecdotal.

Thanks Pidge. Sometimes common sense doesn't rear its head on HT with a few posters. Elvis, not everyone gets their information solely from the internet or what they are spoonfed by the media.

Speaking of acting like third graders, now Elvis or Demi do either of you have anything to add to this thread / topic or as usual nothing except your silly tag team barbs like above?


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One would expect the political opinion of any wealthy doctor to be skewed to the Right. Most favor tort reform to limit malpractice insurance and want to see health savings accounts so more of their patients have a dedicated pool of money to pay them.
Then there are a select few minority people who have succeeded in life and even benefited from government programs and the impact of civil rights laws, but then deny that anything other than their own true grit and personal responsibility was a factor. Add Carson to a list that includes Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Marco Rubio. Unfortunately for the Right, their narrow examples are exceptions to the rule and for many reason their message does not resonate with most in minority communities.

marshallz wrote:

I have heard Matthews really take after Democrats, usually for not being Democrat enough but also for corruption and other signs of malfeasance. I can't stand to watch more than a few minutes of his blustery presence.

Matthews is a Democratic political commentator but your scathing criticism is unwarranted. The characterization of his commentary as bluster says more about you than it does about Chris Matthews. Like anyone involved in the heated political environment we have he often has to meet fire with fire....just as we do here. You don't go into a fight on guns with the NRA like a wimp. You hit them back hard.
A lot of folks even have a degree of disdain for Matthews because he has the courage to challenge the motives of those whose hatred for President Obama seems to be tied in with racial intolerance or worse. The Right Wing never wants to acknowledge that. Frankly, they do not want someone like Chris Matthews to talk about it at all let alone to tell it like it is.
Yes, he is respected political commentator and because of that, I respect the fact that those who disagree with what he says politically dislike his opinions and even cringe at how effective he can be at delivering them. However, I do not respect those who take the criticism to another level.


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It absolutely has never occurred to me that a wealthy doctor's politics would be skewed right by virtue of their profession or wealth. I certainly don't expect it.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I think you folk are desperately in need of tort reform and not just in the area of medicine.


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And I don't respect those that ignore their heroes' faults. Matthews has gone after Obama and especially the Democrat Caucus in both houses as well as Democrat leaders of both houses as ineffective and spineless. He is right, and honestly so, to go after failed policies and practices in high places.


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epi: "Speaking of acting like third graders, now Elvis or Demi do either of you have anything to add to this thread / topic or as usual nothing except your silly tag team barbs like above?"

I just know you are not as clueless as that quasi-question makes you appear to be, at your own hands, no less. I don't see any need for embellishment on this point.

Moving on, I think that if it is to be generally accepted from this point in time and on, that a poster is exactly what he/she says he/she is (no second guessing or challenges!), and the knowledge they purport to have, based on nothing more than that they say it is so, a precedent will be set. That should be very interesting. In the interest of fairness, these statements must be accepted as fact, with no exceptions.

In this is to be the case, I respectfully suggest everyone save this as a clipping for (frequent) use in the (very) near future.

Demi, please do not comment on this. Do your own if you must. ;-)


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chase said:
I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I think you folk are desperately in need of tort reform and not just in the area of medicine.

I'd be happy to hear suggestions from North of the border on tort reform that pertain to medical malpractice or to product liability.
As far as prefacing your comment by characterizing your political ideology, I do not think it bolsters your opinion in any way, even if it were true.


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You are so blinded by your ideology you can't see others objectively.

I am a liberal, a strong liberal, as anyone ,other than you ,on this forum....right, left our centre will attest to.

I find the States to be an overly litigious society. Our courts are not sympathetic to frivolous cases and settlements are always relatively modest compared to the US.

To bring suit in Canada you have to have very serious cause to prevail and if you do the settlement will be nothing like we see in the States.


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It absolutely has never occurred to me that a wealthy doctor's politics would be skewed right by virtue of their profession or wealth. I certainly don't expect it.

You would be naive to ignore the impact of wealth on political opinion or the impact of profession on issues like medical malpractice/ tort reform which have been politicized.

Then there is the stark reality that the more wealth one has, the more one wishes to conserve it. Conservatism for some is mainly a desire to "conserve" their wealth.
It has become a pocket book issue for them.
We have some "conservatives" here who are less subtle about conserving their own wealth and repeatedly ask "why should my money pay for your _____."
Yes, wealth impacts political ideology and can even change the political opinions of those who acquire it.


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Heri does that preclude all of the incredibly wealthy liberals?


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Elvis, can we use the famous line "YOU LIE!" instead of challenging facts and statements purporting to convey truthiness.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 16:25

Chase, it does not preclude rich liberals. Liberals tend to stay liberal.

But I can attest, anecdotally, at least, that wealth moves moderates farther right on the political continuum. I saw it with my XH, and many, many of our physician friends and acquaintances.

I work in Public Health, and physicians don't get rich in Public Health, and most, if not all, stay to the left of the middle. There just aren't any Republicans in Public Health. These are the people trying to save the world, not hoard their wealth.

Dr. Carson certainly didn't go into pediatric neurological surgery to get rich, he did it to save children's lives, and he's done it well. He's talented, kind, generous, gentle, compassionate and very smart. I don't know if he's wealthy, and I don't know what his political beliefs were, so he may be exactly where he was 20 or 40 years ago.


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There just aren't any Republicans in Public Health. These are the people trying to save the world, not hoard their wealth.

Oh me, does this mean if I want to save the world I have to become a liberal again? dang, I guess I have to give up my hope of saving the world.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 17:25

No, because you likely won't go into Public Health.


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•Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 16:25
I work in Public Health, and physicians don't get rich in Public Health, and most, if not all, stay to the left of the middle.------------> There just aren't any Republicans in Public Health.<-------------------------------
These are the people trying to save the world, not hoard their wealth.
*******************

If I had just made a remark such as that regarding liberals in any slot whatever.......it would have turned into
a 150 post with everything thrown at me .

That is a very skewered remark momj47 and very unfair
to the many Republicans working at our local Red Cross,
donating their time at free clinics and active in communities all over the country donating their time .


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 18:53

Public health embraces all the values you despise.

Volunteering at the Red Cross is wonderful, though.


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That is a very skewered remark

I'm sure she meant to skewer some.

But I'm pretty sure most of the public health folks I know who do it for a living aren't conservative/Rs.


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Public health embraces all the values you despise.

What is most sad mom, is that I think you really believe this. There really isn't any hope is there?


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Heri does that preclude all of the incredibly wealthy liberals?

It includes wealthy black physicians who are in favor of a flat tax and private health care savings accounts, and who argue in favor of Biblical Creationism.
It includes most everyone at Mitt Romney's 47% campaign fundraiser.
It includes Rush Limbaugh and many arrogant, self-righteous people whose greed and selfishness seem to grow in direct proportion to their own wealth.
But no, no one ever said all Right Wingers are wealthy or that every wealthy person is a Righty.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 19:16

There really isn't any hope for what?

A compassionate GOP?

Continued funding of NIH, CDC, Head Start, Public Health Clinics, immunizations, school lunch programs, flu shots, funding for medical, surgical and scientific research, medications for orphan diseases, Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare, CHIP, family planning clinics, medicaid, school health clinics, clean air, clean water, safe roads?

What is there no hope for?


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 19:21

Been reading the evolution of this subject, from a little known person he has suddenly become a brilliant man (with all the accolades that can be spouted) and all because he disagreed with the current prez. Before that, few even knew about him.

Interesting...


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I have to agree with momj47. I can't envision any GOP working in public health.

Never known a GOP, in all my years involved in the medical field that supports the things that public health clinics stand for. or for that matter, any of the, so called, "handouts, entitlements" that the GOP want ended.

Lots of "hot air" talk about how they care about this, that and the other thing, but it's cut the money and run attitude.

Yup, they want to save the world, buy way of keeping the money for themselves, "personal responsibility" claims and all the rest of the rhetoric that keeps coming out of their mouths.


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Mom said (@ CW): "Public health embraces all the values you despise."

That was the wrong thing to say, on so many levels. Shame on you.


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Now we have all these liberals coming forth who "work" in the medical field and know more than any conservative.

Its amazing how much more liberals think they know in every subject versus conservatives.

Yeah, right.
Youalls jus tu blamed knows it all for me.
Congratulations to all you liberals who all of a sudden
work in the medical field.
Good evening.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 20:10

None of us think, for a moment, that we know more than you. What a strange thing to say. Where in the world did such an idea come from.

I don't doubt for a moment that the conservatives on this forum are compassionate and caring, but by supporting the "ideals" of the GOP, they lose credibility, because the GOP has made it clear that they do not support the programs that support the vulnerable, sick, poor, etc.

My work in the medical field isn't sudden, it's been going on now for 40 years+.


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Congratulations to all you liberals who all of a sudden
work in the medical field.

Words: not meant to convey facts, ideas, or information.


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Interesting.

I know a lady that worked as a nurse for the public health unit for years.

She has been to tea party rallies.

Guess that shoots some statements out of the water~~

There's an anecdote for every anecdote.

The only thing liberals seem to have a corner on is arrogance.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 20:44

I would have to say, anecdotally, of course, that none of the 150 people who work in our health department building have been to a tea party rally.

And I suspect that none of the thousand or more Health Department employees in other facilities across the city have ever been to a tea party rally, either.


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Well, I'm too busy a person to have spent the time and research to be able to back up a statement on a public forum that none of 150 coworkers of mine have ever been, or not been to a tea party rally.

Much less thousands.

I'm too busy of a person to care.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 20:51

We're a Blue state, the Tea Party wasn't big in the city or nearby counties. Probably some rallies in the far western and eastern parts of the state, though

We're glad you are so busy, and glad you don't care. But why did you post, then?


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To point out the ridiculousness of the notion that Republicans don't care enough about people to be involved in the public health field.

Really, is it that difficult to ascertain that you had to ask?


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I don't care...don't care for the cattiness of this thread.

I've been thinking of the many people of have known in the health care field, a few being family members or related through marriage. Most were not avid partisans on either side but overall they tended to be socially more liberal and more conservative economically. An acquaintance is a very conservative R.Catholic working as a psych nurse and one of her supervisors is very conservative along libertarian lines.

This crap about who is more empathetic while bleeding Red or while bleeding Blue is just silly. My old neighbor, recently passing at around 90, volunteered at the local hospital for close to 50 years. She and her deceased husband were among the most conservative people I've personally met.

Yes, these are anecdotes but reflect my experiences around this partisan divide that is less important than the angst that causes some posters to obsess over the matter.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 21:08

I don't think "one person" constitutes all Republicans.

Recalling the comments posted here, recently and in the last year, the GOP policies and pronouncements show they really don't care much about people and these polices are heartily and loudly supported by members of this forum.

The GOP very much wants to defund all public health funding, as well as Medicare and Social Security, and this, too is supported by members of this forum.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

This crap about who is more empathetic while bleeding Red or while bleeding Blue is just silly. My old neighbor, recently passing at around 90, volunteered at the local hospital for close to 50 years. She and her deceased husband were among the most conservative people I've personally met.

Yes, these are anecdotes but reflect my experiences around this partisan divide that is less important than the angst that causes some posters to obsess over the matter.

*

That was my point, Marshall--as I said--I called out the ridiculousness of the assertion that Republicans aren't in the health care field, and that they don't care as much about their fellow humans as Democrats and liberals.

I call Partisan Playground Poppycock.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

demifloyd wrote,

The only thing liberals seem to have a corner on is arrogance.

...and demifloyd wrote,

I have no stereotype of liberals.

Yet another stark demonstration of hypocrisy or dishonesty; take your pick.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

The GOP very much wants to defund all public health funding, as well as Medicare and Social Security, and this, too is supported by members of this forum.

Yes, but what about marshallz neighbor?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Marshallz:
We are not arguing about who is empathetic and who isn't. You are. Instead of your continuous rants about who is empathetic and who isn't, why not make your libertarian argument against Obamacare, Medicare, and Social Security and support your positions ?
As far as Dr. Carson do you agree with him about replacing Obamacare with private health insurance accounts?
Do you agree that we should have a flat tax instead of a system of progressive taxation?
Do you believe in so-called "intelligent design?"

Here is a link that might be useful: Why Libertarianism Is Wrong


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Yet another stark demonstration of hypocrisy or dishonesty; take your pick.

Words: not meant to convey facts, ideas, or information.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Dr. Carson suffers from a religious bias so profound it blinds him to science and logic. His explanations of the supposed shortcomings of evolutionary biology are stunningly ignorant, and indicate an inability to consider evidence that conflicts with the tenets of his religion, which compels him to believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. He therefore cannot be relied upon to provide objective analyses of issues. He may be smart, but that intelligence can't be counted upon to be applied to reason.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Heri, go start your own OP's and I'll drop in to entertain you.

PS, you have the retention of a frog. I have posted my views many times and in detail. You just pass over them going 'ribbit'ribbit'ribbit'.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Laughing so loud I startled myself!


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Right now, I would completely agree with Factotum at 22:56 and would be interested in reading good, comprehensive opposing view to hers.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 17, 13 at 23:49

Posted by Factotem

"Dr. Carson suffers from a religious bias so profound it blinds him to science and logic. His explanations of the supposed shortcomings of evolutionary biology are stunningly ignorant, and indicate an inability to consider evidence that conflicts with the tenets of his religion, which compels him to believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. He therefore cannot be relied upon to provide objective analyses of issues. He may be smart, but that intelligence can't be counted upon to be applied to reason."----------------------Ewwww that legend you have of yourself in your mind is getting so big, one of these days your head will explode.

Meanwhile give documented proof of any of the remarks you made above.
No wait it is just your biased opinion based on nothing but bias-BRILLIANT!


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

........a good, comprehensive opposing view to hers.

Anybody?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Anybody?

That's why he's a darling of the right - anti-Obummer, anti-evolution.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"Dr. Carson suffers from a religious bias so profound it blinds him to science and logic. His explanations of the supposed shortcomings of evolutionary biology are stunningly ignorant, and indicate an inability to consider evidence that conflicts with the tenets of his religion, which compels him to believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. He therefore cannot be relied upon to provide objective analyses of issues. He may be smart, but that intelligence can't be counted upon to be applied to reason."----------------------Ewwww that legend you have of yourself in your mind is getting so big, one of these days your head will explode.

Meanwhile give documented proof of any of the remarks you made above.
No wait it is just your biased opinion based on nothing but bias-BRILLIANT!

Hmm, didn't give me much time to provide the requested information before you passed judgment...maybe you were afraid of the truth. Do you believe the earth is 6,000 years old too?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Dr. Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist, their world headquarters are in Maryland, as are several of their hospitals.

He has given several interviews to Adventist publications. Attached is one of them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Attached is Dr. Carson's response from this morning's paper.

Dr. Ben Carson says he didn't anticipate the reaction to what he considered his common-sense remarks as keynote speaker this month at the National Prayer Breakfast...

Carson, who plans to retire from surgery in June, says he has no interest in running for office. But he says he will use the new exposure to urge common sense, bipartisanship and a reversal of the "moral decay" that he says is eating away at the country.

"I have this feeling that as time goes on, we're not getting any more civilized, and we should be," he said in an interview. "We're still running around like the days of Genghis Khan. There are so many important, better things to do and we need to encourage people to reach into the brighter side of humanity and not encourage people to continue to glorify the darker side."...

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

"I also work for Johns Hopkins Medicine, and I know the policies about becoming involved in controversial or political issues, as a representative, officially or unofficially, of Johns Hopkins."

So has Dr. Carson (he's an Independent) been reprimanded for his speech or comments since?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

If there is a policy against that sort of speech, you can be sure the reprimand, if any, will not be publicized by the hospital administration. As a surgeon with hospital privileges, he is hardly independent of hospital policies.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I would have no way of knowing about any HR actions. That's confidential. As it should be.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Congratulations to all you liberals who all of a sudden
work in the medical field.
Good evening.

Sorry to disappoint you CW, I am far from a "liberal who all of a sudden work in the medical field" as anyone that knows me on HT can attest to.

I have posted many a time that I have been and am part of the medical field and have been for more than 40 years.

So has Dr. Carson (he's an Independent) been reprimanded for his speech or comments since?

Nik, I can back up and attest to exactly what marshallz said.

Hospital policies generally don't make public, reprimands of employees, including doctors, unless it is a situation that makes it a must to go public with it.

A surgeon, is just as much an employee as any other employee of a hospital. That surgeon has, what is called, hospital privileges known as admitting rights, the right to practice medicine, to operate in that particular hospital.

That hospital also has specific policies that all employees must follow, including doctors, surgeons, etc. Some of those policies are far more specific to type of employment.

If an employee, including a doctor/surgeon, violates any of those policies, there is very likely to be a reprimand given to that employee, that doctor, surgeon, whom ever it is and that reprimand will go in the files of that employee.

It is quite possible that repeated reprimands can/will warrant termination of that employee, that doctor/surgeon and hospitals, especially today, are more than willing to terminate whom ever it is that warrants that termination, removing of hospital privileges of any doctor.
That would include Dr. Carson.

On the other hand, since Dr. Carson has announced his retirement come, summer, it is quite possible that the hospital hasn't bothered to reprimand him since he will be leaving on his own accord.

And it is also just as possible that Dr Carson is retiring at the request of the hospital because of his speeches or any other various comments he has publicly made and the hospital was kind enough to give him a choice, retire or be reprimanded.

Either way, unless either side wants to make this kind of info public, one will never know if Dr Carson has/was reprimanded. It is confidential info if he was, especially since it has nothing to do with his medical abilities, his surgical abilities.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Thanks littleone, for a logical and reasoned response. I am always grateful for posts like yours.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

marshallz :
you have the retention of a frog. I have posted my views many times and in detail. You just pass over them going 'ribbit'ribbit'ribbit'.

No need for the little personal jab but I guess that has become part of your repertoire here along with being the self-appointed critic-at-large, a guy who often belittles others while claiming the high ground. Oh yes, hoot there it is, and there goes another ugly thread....and often just as your Right Wing libertarian sensibilities are about to be offended.

Instead of characterizing threads or criticizing and belittling posters perhaps you should just state your position(s) and try to support them, like almost everyone else trys to do here. Once again, you elected not to do that here. I think you know that your libertarian views would likely land you several steps to the Right of many posters here and you would actually have to enter into the debate instead of just commenting on it.

Finally, perhaps you should be careful about tossing out an accusation about memory issues, even in jest. My father passed away with complications related to his Alzheimers and my mother continues to suffer with it as I have indicated here before. I trust that my own memory still serves me well and I remember damned well what you have said here and what you haven't.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Talk about ribbit ribbit…

In this is to be the case, I respectfully suggest everyone save this as a clipping for (frequent) use in the (very) near future.

Now Elvis is attempting to play community organizer? Trying to manipulate a board into a gang mentality is asinine and adolescent.

A one second Google is all it takes to find a list of policies on the JH website. It may not be as much “fun” as critiquing other posters or disrupting a board but it is more productive.

Johns Hopkins University Policies
■ Admissions Policy
■ Policy on Alcohol Abuse and Drug-Free Workplace
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ Policy on Alcohol-Related Advertising and Promotion
■ Alternative Beverages Policy
■Animal Care and Use at Johns Hopkins
■Anti-Harassment Policy
■ Policy Addressing Campus Violence
■Closed Circuit Television (CCTV) Monitoring and Recording: Standard Operating Procedures
■ Statement of Behavior In Contractual Relationships
■Policy on Child Safety in University Programs
■ Competitive Bidding Policy
[JHU Purchasing Office]
■ Johns Hopkins Compliance Line
■ University Policy on Conflict of Interest and Conflict of Commitment

■Conflict of Interest and Commitment Policies
[JH Office of Research Compliance]
■Copyright Compliance and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)
■Policy on Credit Card Marketing
■Procedures on Discrimination, Harassment, Sexual Harassment and Sexual Violence Complaints
(JH Office of Institutional Equity)
■Statement on Diversity & Inclusion
■ Principles for Ensuring Equity, Civility and Respect for All
■University Statement on Equal Opportunity
■ University Policy on Equal Opportunity
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■Equal Opportunity Policy in Publications for the Attention of Students
■ Statement of Ethical Standards
■Export Controls Policies
[JH Office of Research Projects Administration]
■ University Policy On Family Educational Rights and Privacy
■ The Johns Hopkins Family and Medical Leave Policy
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■Financial Aid Code of Conduct and Policy on Education Loans
■ Hazing Policy
■ JHU Health, Safety, and Environment: Safety Policies and Procedures
■ Policies on Human Research Participants
[JH Office of Research Projects Administration]
■ Human Resources Policy Manual
■ Identity Theft Prevention Policy
■ Intellectual Property Policy
■ Johns Hopkins Information Technology Policies
■ Guide to the University's Internal Financial and Administrative Controls
■ The Johns Hopkins University and The Johns Hopkins Health System Corporation Policy on Institutional Conflict of Interest
■ Johns Hopkins University Management Philosophy
■ Policy Regarding Reasonable Break Time for Nursing Mothers
■ Homewood Campus Parking and Traffic Regulations
■ Photography and Film Rights Policy
■ Policy on Policies
■ Policy on Political Activities
■ Policy on Possession of Firearms on University Premises
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ University Policy on Preventing Fraud, Waste and Abuse
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ Purchasing Policies from the JHU Office of Purchasing Services
■Research Misconduct Policies
[JH Office of Research Projects Administration]
■Policy on Reserved Parking for Disabled People On Homewood Campus
■ Various Policies Concerning Services for Students with Disabilities
■ Sexual Violence Policy
■Research Compliance Policies
[JH Office of Research Projects Administration]
■Responsible Conduct of Research (General) Policies
[JH Office of Research Projects Administration]
■ Return of Title IV Funds Policy
■ Sexual Assault Services for Survivors and Friends
■ Policy Against Sexual Harassment
[JH Office of Institutional Equity]
■ Smoke-Free Policy
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ Policy on Software Duplication
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ Policy on Student Social Security Number Protection and Use
■ Policy on Undergraduate Study Abroad
■ Policy on University Closings
[As Stated in Human Resources Policy Manual]
■ Attention Veterans
■ Johns Hopkins Web Accessibility Site


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Wow elvis...you are both asinine and adolescent..you got a twofer!

What the heck difference does it make what JH's policies are. I'm sure Dr. Carson knows better than any of us. He chose to make his views known. If he were to run for public office, there isn't a liberal on here who would vote for him, and not a liberal who could change a conservatives views regarding what he had to say. So, why don't we just have fun and spend the rest of the posts taking potshots at one another.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Yet again, your personal spin of my words doesn't make it accurate. Read what I wrote again.

What the heck difference does it make what JH's policies are

Read the thread and connect the dots.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 15:11

Posted by Factotem
"Hmm, didn't give me much time to provide the requested information before you passed judgment...maybe you were afraid of the truth. Do you believe the earth is 6,000 years old too?"--------------Actually, no.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"Hmm, didn't give me much time to provide the requested information before you passed judgment...maybe you were afraid of the truth. Do you believe the earth is 6,000 years old too?"--------------Actually, no.

What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I must confess I knew nothing about Dr Carson before the prayer breakfast. I still don't know much, but it appears he is a brilliant doctor, one of the best in the country. Coming from his background where his mother was one of 24 kids, it's remarkable what he has achieved. and I have nothing but admiration for him.

That said, I disagree with his entire philospyhy on every issue I read about. 6000 years, really? How can a man so educated even have that thought. Sounds like something from Palin.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 17:17

Posted by Factotem

"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"-----------------To each his own.

Judge not lest ye be judged.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

The good doctor has made it to MSM--I just saw him for the first time a little while ago on TV. He says he will let God tell him what to do. That's literally all I needed to hear. I don't care how great a physician he is, or how decent an man--that's a red flag that none of us should ignore.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 17:37

Posted by pidge
"The good doctor has made it to MSM--I just saw him for the first time a little while ago on TV. He says he will let God tell him what to do. That's literally all I needed to hear. I don't care how great a physician he is, or how decent an man--that's a red flag that none of us should ignore."---------------Based on what premise that is not bigoted, biased or simply prejudicial?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I have to agree with you there, pidge. Maybe if he prays hard enough, God will tell him to do some pro bono work in an under served area - perhaps even in Baltimore.

Was living in Maryland and I remember him hitting the "stage" in a big way with his groundbreaking success in separating back of the head conjoined twins. Seems PBS or something had a documentary and he really captured peoples' attention. That quieted down and hadn't heard of him again until the prayer breakfast.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

"-Based on what premise that is not bigoted, biased or simply prejudicial?"

Would you take pause if he said, "I will let the psychic unicorn tell me what to do."
I am not trying to be offensive, but to some people it means the same thing.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 17:49

Posted by duluthinbloom

"I have to agree with you there, pidge. Maybe if he prays hard enough, God will tell him to do some pro bono work in an under served area - perhaps even in Baltimore.

Was living in Maryland and I remember him hitting the "stage" in a big way with his groundbreaking success in separating back of the head conjoined twins. Seems PBS or something had a documentary and he really captured peoples' attention. That quieted down and hadn't heard of him again until the prayer breakfast. "----------As you agree with pidge, also as you do not think Dr. Carson's work excuses his personal opinions or faith then what premise do you have that is not based on bigotry, bias or simple prejudice do you have to justify your agreeing with pidge?

This post was edited by RpR_ on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:51


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I didn't hear anything Dr. Carson said that was any different in any way from what he has been saying publicly for the last few years.

I called my son and asked him if the Dr. in any way had violated a contract or had jeopardized his position within
J.H. His comment, " where did you get that idea mother"?
I told him on HT. Silence. Louder than words.

He told me the Dr. had plans for retiring for a while , he had violated no contracts and JH and the good Dr. had high regards for each other.

He then told me sweetly to get out of the Dr.'s business,
the Dr. could handle his own life, business and personal.

Well, I have been verbally spanked by the son so I guess
I'm retiring from knowing anything about this subject.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Gracious!


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

" ---As you agree with pidge, akso as you do not think Dr. Carson's work excuses his personal opinions or faith then what premise do you have that is not based on bigotry, bias or simple prejudice do you have to justify your agreeing with pidge?"

Hats off to anyone who gets that statement figured out.........


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

the Dr. in any way had violated a contract or had jeopardized his position within
J.H. His comment, " where did you get that idea mother"?
I told him on HT. Silence. Louder than words.

Why do they make it up?

What is in it for them to make things up?

Clearly made up. Unless this is a comedy routine, in which case I LOLz'ed!


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

All I can say is that anyone who says they will act on what God tells them to do is obviously best friends with the psychic unicorn. Amen.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Wow..I am amazed that your son is privy to the details of a private contract between the hospital and the Doctor and the reasons for his retirement.

To know those details he must be in HR but sharing HR details with you, and then having you share those confidential details with us , is not very professional....to say the least.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Based on what premise that is not bigoted, biased or simply prejudicial?

It may be all of those in your opinion, RpR_ , but and this is the key information to base what pIdge said on.

We have already had a president who, supposedly, let god tell him what to do. Did you forget that?

Have you so quickly forgotten about George W. Bush?

He claimed that his basis for starting both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq where based on both God and Christ.

Yup, he claimed that both talked to him and on told him to attack Afghanistan and war there, and the other told him to invade Iraq.

Thanks, but no thanks, been there, done that already, not interested in a someone that claims he hears the voice of god or christ telling him what to do.

That idea didn't work out so well the last time it was supposedly the reason to start 2 wars for no reason.
We sure as heck don't need another president or politician for that matter with the same kind of belief.

Deluth, he isn't going to get the message from God to help the poor. It isn't going to fatten his wallet, and those people don't have health insurance, money etc.

I saw that documentary as well, quite impressive surgeon, but then he vanished from view, not to be heard of again until the prayer breakfast.

I'm still trying to find out how Dr Carson afforded college and medical school. He certainly didn't have the financial resources on his own.

so did he manage the education based on affirmative action, college loans, like most people without the financial resources do?

Aren't those some of the entitlements that both the GOP and the libertarian party espouse to get rid of?

Is that something that Dr Carson supports as well, or is he one that wants to keep those, so called, "entitlements"?

He may be an independent but he sure espouses a lot of the GOP/TeaParty beliefs.

"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"

A simple answer is this, if one bases their scientific beliefs on religion, on the words of the bible, on creationism/intelligent design, one is not capable to be objective when it comes to scientific information and is not capable of objectively evaluate and scientific information.

Science is science and religion is religion, one can believe in both as separate entities, but one can not combine both as one and then evaluate objectively any true scientific information.

Factotem, one is not able to


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Yep Chase, that is exactly why I commented, "gracious!"


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"-----------------To each his own.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

You answered a question not asked. I didn't ask whether you think the doctor should be allowed to hold the views he has. I asked what your assessment is of his ability to objectively evaluate scientific information.

Do you think someone who believes the earth is 6,000 years old can be relied upon to take rational positions on scientific matters? Or on any matters?

As to the "judging" quote, it's a disappointing cop out. We -- including you -- judge people all day, every day. Here, at work, in the political arena, and so on. Do you use that line when refusing to serve on juries?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:17

Where did you get the idea there is any kind of contract involved? What a strange question to ask. I imagine that explains the silence.

I'm sure Dr. Carson and JHU do hold each other in high regard, they pay his salary, after all, and he is a gifted surgeon who brings patients to Johns Hopkins. He is not retiring from JHU, he is retiring from his surgical practice at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He will, if he wants it, still have his faculty appointment in the School of Medicine.

But at Hopkins (and probably many other research universities), you aren't paid because you teach, faculty salaries are paid from your research grants, which he will have to continue to apply for.

With the sequester coming, grant funding will end, so many, many faculty at many, many universities will find themselves without funding.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Am I in the Twilight Zone?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

hmm sounds more like hell to me lol.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:54

Posted by pidge
"All I can say is that anyone who says they will act on what God tells them to do is obviously best friends with the psychic unicorn. Amen."--------------So then you are admitting you are bigoted against people of the Christian faith, and maybe any faith.

Why not just come out and say that rather than hiding behind snide remarks that insult people you have never met.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

"If there is a policy against that sort of speech, you can be sure the reprimand, if any, will not be publicized by the hospital administration."

No indication he is done talking either.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:58

Posted by Factotem none (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:11

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"-----------------To each his own.
----------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Factotem none (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:11


Posted by Factotem
"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"-----------------To each his own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

To each his own.
Prov. Each person has the right to make choices.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Where did you get the idea there is any kind of contract involved? What a strange question to ask. I imagine that explains the silence.

Don't bother mom. As soon as she showed the answer is based only on a distorted, misinterpretation of what has been said on here it became even more irrelevant anyway.

Most people understand what you and others have explained from the get-go, those that don't or won't, well it's their problem.

Nik, it is the Dr.'s prerogative to say what he wants. Time will tell how it wil affect anything. People and funders will respond to his actions and words how they see fit. Undoubtebly there will be repercussions but I am sure Dr, Carson has weighed his options and knows the consequences as well as the benefits of his actions.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR wrote,

Posted by Factotem
"What is your opinion of people who believe that the earth was created in a six-day period about 6,000 years ago? Specifically, what is your assessment of their ability to objectively evaluate scientific information?"-----------------To each his own.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

To each his own.
Prov. Each person has the right to make choices.

Absolutely right.

Now, what is your assessment of Dr. Carson's ability to objectively evaluate scientific information in light of the fact that he believes the earth is 6,000 years old?

Note that I'm not asking whether you think he has the right to believe that. I'm asking whether you consider his opinions on scientific matters to be reliable given his opinion on the age of the earth. It's a really simple question. You're not afraid to answer it, are you?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 21:07

Posted by Factotem
"Now, what is your assessment of Dr. Carson's ability to objectively evaluate scientific information in light of the fact that he believes the earth is 6,000 years old?

Note that I'm not asking whether you think he has the right to believe that. I'm asking whether you consider his opinions on scientific matters to be reliable given his opinion on the age of the earth. It's a really simple question. You're not afraid to answer it, are you?"-------------------I believe that he has the right to believe as he chooses and my opinion of it is of zero concern to him or anyone else.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR you have yet to answer Factotem's question.

Do you realize that?

It's looking like you

1. don't understand the question.

2. are afraid to answer the question

3. just refuse to answer the question because it makes you feel good not to.

That question is pretty straight forward and simple to answer. why not give it a try.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I don't know any other way to put this statement other than just put it plainly.
I trust my son's input as more informed regarding
policies pertaining to Doctors and Hospitals more than I do people who just work "in" the medical field or one who dabbles in fundraising.

My son has been a Neurosurgeon since 2002 so I would think he would be considered more informed when it involves most hosp policies.
*********************************************************
•Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 18:05

Wow..I am amazed that your son is privy to the details of a private contract between the hospital and the Doctor and the reasons for his retirement.
To know those details he must be in HR but sharing HR details with you, and then having you share those confidential details with us , is not very professional....to say the least.
*******************************************************
Chase.......as a proud parent you just can't imagine how I would love to post clippings and pictures of my son's
achievements. He is a Pediatric Neurosurgeon and he
was in school and in his residency for a total of 15 years.
I can't do that of course, but I have made the statement
several times on HT that my son and DIL are both Drs.
So no , he does not work in HR.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I don't know any other way to put this statement other than just put it plainly.

But you made up a fake fact that you claimed you heard on HT.I don't know how to put it any other way than plainly state that you made it up. That is: you made up something that you told your son, or you made up the story about talking to your son.

In other words, this...erm..."information":

the Dr. in any way had violated a contract or had jeopardized his position within J.H. His comment, " where did you get that idea mother"? I told him on HT.

is not something you got on HT. Maybe you dreamt it. Or saw it on another forum and "thought" you heard it here. Sure. That's it. Couldn't be that you made it up, right? amirite?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 18, 13 at 23:26

Posted by littleonefb
"RpR you have yet to answer Factotem's question.

Do you realize that?

It's looking like you

1. don't understand the question.

2. are afraid to answer the question

3. just refuse to answer the question because it makes you feel good not to.

That question is pretty straight forward and simple to answer. why not give it a try."--------------------Do you realize I really do not care?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

MOMJ47
Harm him with the medical community, especially in Baltimore, and at Johns Hopkins. This sort of public political stance is frowned on.
*******************************************
Harm him at JH?
Jeopardize his position?
******************************
EPIP:
Nik, it is the Dr.'s prerogative to say what he wants. Time will tell how it wil affect anything. People and funders will respond to his actions and words how they see fit. Undoubtebly there will be repercussions but I am sure Dr, Carson has weighed his options and knows the consequences as well as the benefits of his actions.

epip:
Other reasons could include their charters require the institution to be non-partisan and / or non-sectarian, etc. In which case doctors--------------------------> would have signed an agreement<----------------------- to not publicly speak about certain topics. That would not be censorship.

******************************************
Undoubtably repercussions?
Signed an agreement?
That would make it a contract.
***************************

Wxdano......you must not read the post all the way through.
I'm sure several people with an open mind got the impression eppi amd momj47 were assuming the worst for the good Dr........... Epip is even assuming for doners.
Yes I got the impression here on HT SINCE MOMJ47 went into detail about policies etc that she was saying the good Dr. was violating possibly a contract since something was even mentioned about signing an agreement.

The defence rests.
Prosecutor wxdano next.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

RpR wrote,

Do you realize I really do not care?

Why do your own opinions make you so uncomfortable? What exactly is it that you are afraid of if you are honest about your position? I'd thought you had more courage.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Do you realize I really do not care?

That is demi's line. You can't use that.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Wxdano......you must not read the post all the way through.

Well, I did and "context' comes to mind. Maybe that is what your son thought as well.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 0:42

Posted by WxDano

"Do you realize I really do not care?

That is demi's line. You can't use that."------------------ARRRRH.

Hmm, let's see. OK.

Realize, I really do not care, do you?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

So, now we have now come full circle. It all comes down to what citywoman's son says. Period.

I trust my son's input as more informed regarding
policies pertaining to Doctors and Hospitals more than I do people who just work "in" the medical field or one who dabbles in fundraising.

My son has been a Neurosurgeon since 2002 so I would think he would be considered more informed when it involves most hosp policies.

We started with this

... Dr Carson … is still the most respected Dr. in his field and within the medical world period….
Besides he is one of the nicest guys you would ever meet or talk with according to my son...

False premise’s and cw's sons opinion, absolutely nothing tangible and we are still going around in circles about the same thing...nothing tangible and cw son's opinion.

It seems that some people are incapable of discerning between different situations which may be one of the problems.

We started off discussing Carson which morphed into his messiahhood, then who is an expert in JH policy; a doctor who practices elsewhere or a person that works at the very instititution we are discussing. Then a few passive-aggressive digs thrown in about a 25 year career, as well as dismissing others, and of course the usual barbs about liberals, amidst other nonsense...but that was all filler because the bottom line is citywoman’s son says so. Just like she said in her first post.

There ya have it. Case closed.

Another circular conversation based on nothing. Like an episode of Seinfeld.


Undoubtably repercussions?
Signed an agreement?
That would make it a contract.

CW, those were possible scenarios. Are you not capable of understanding the difference ? I don’t have details of Carson’s relationship with JH, their policies or even if / how they affect what the op brought up nor do you or your son. None of us work there except mom. She has given us firsthand information but none of us know how or if they apply here and we have all said just that, except you (and your son)..

You can continue to misinterpret posts and /or continue to assume, presume, speculate and spin what if’s if that makes your boat float, or you can read the policies of JH more indepth at their website.

You claimed to be done with this conversation but apparently not since there have been several posts since that proclamation.

Twilight zone indeed.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Realize, I really do not care, do you?

Grammatically scrambled; that's elvis' gig.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Epip, I have an extra set of hip waders you can use should you find the need for them, as I tend to in threads such as this one.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

CW said

My son has been a Neurosurgeon since 2002 so I would think he would be considered more informed when it involves most hosp policies.

You may think that, but;
This not true, your son does not know this info, every hospital has it's own policies that reflect on it and not other hospitals. Some things may be standard, but much of those policies are specific to the hospital, the hospital research, etc.

and she said

I trust my son's input as more informed regarding
policies pertaining to Doctors and Hospitals more than I do people who just work "in" the medical field or one who dabbles in fundraising.

You can trust your son's input all you want, but first you must provide him with the accurate information and accurate was your assumption that policies and signed contracts are one in the same, which they are far from.

Those that work "in" the medical field" or "dabbles in fundraising", are well aware of what policies are and how they work. Your presented false info to your son and then got the reaction and comments that you did, based on false info.

And yes, Dr Carson, John Hopkins can very well be harmed by what Dr Carson has been saying about his scientific beliefs.

The fact that he is a believer in "intelligent design/creationism", doesn't believe in evolution, actually believes that the earth is only about 6,000 years old can and I would personally bet, create havoc in the research areas that he has been involved in.

Research donations, grants, funding can very quickly dry up when those that have been donating money to that research her what Dr Carson truly believes in.

It could strongly put into question his ability to continue to be objective in his scientific research and question whether the funding could be well spent on other research and not Dr Carson's.

Research money is a very precarious commodity and saying or doing anything that could jeopardize that funding is not a smart thing to do, to say the very least.

One would surmise that John Hopkins is not very happy at all the publicity that Dr Carson is garnering these days, and one would surmise that they are concerned about research funding right now, especially when the GOP is quite eager to cut this kind of money from the budget.

When it comes to research money, research grants, no one in their right mind, does anything to risk that funding.

Which then brings us right back to the beginning, DR Carson may have violated polices at John Hopkins, but at the very least, he has quite likely put further research money into his dept at risk.

And it would appear that he doesn't really care that he may have done that.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Mylab, LOL. Thank you. I would take you up on your offer but after being here for the last several years I bought myself a pair some time ago along with a fly swatter. ;)
I think I may have to upgrade to a pair that goes up to my chin as the muck is getting deeper.

Littleone, don't bother. Reason and fact only falls on deaf ears. .

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 9:20


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

I have not said anything about signing an agreement or anything about a contract. You are making incorrect assumptions. CW.

Hopkins Medicine, like all employers, has policies about talking to the media. As a matter of fact, we just received an email (sent at 12:06 AM) this morning reminding Johns Hopkins Medicine leaders, faculty and staff of that policy with instructions on how to contact the Public Affairs Department should we be contacted by someone from the media for a comment in response to a news event or research or for opinion pieces.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Exactly what one would expect from a hospital, Momj47, especially after the "spectacle" that Dr. Carson is making of himself in the media.

It's called policies that he and all employees are well aware of, just as we have been saying.

IF CW had related the correct and factual info to her son, he no doubt would have had a completely different response to her.

But, alas, she did not and hence the absurd responses she is posting.

So sad though, that she continues to ignore the facts, and continues to find ways around dealing with the facts and reality.

Something that appears to be so common with the GOP and their supporters.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

For crying out load. If Dr.Carson were a liberal and espoused liberal policies you would be free speeching him on every thread. But since he's a conservative, you want to argue over whether there is some policy about his political views. Do you have any idea how it all reads?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

CW, those were possible scenarios. Are you not capable of understanding the difference ?

Clearly not.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

If Dr.Carson were a liberal and espoused liberal policies you would be free speeching him on every thread.

Surely there is a Ward Churchill thread to test whether your premise is not utterly false!


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Mrs, as threads often do , one thought leads to comments and other thoughts . This one is no different.

Nobody has questioned his right to free speech...not even close. The discussion evolved into wondering if the Hospital's policy would allow him to take a role as a political commentator....nothing more.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

"Nik, it is the Dr.'s prerogative to say what he wants."

Others argue that is not true, citing hospital policies.

Makes me wonder if hospital policies are exactly the same for every single person. Momj's memo reminds "medicine leaders, faculty and staff" of the protocol to be followed when contacted by the media.

Does everybody fall under one of those designations? The memo doesn't say "to all employees," It specifies job classifications. Are there exemptions for some?

What does a "medicine leader" do? Is that a department head?

By the way, momj, I had heard nothing personal about JH until some dear friends of ours spent a good part of their summer there last year. A grandchild was born with a severe birth defect, and immediately rushed to JH from another hospital. They could not say enough about care provided to their grandchild and family. Despite the best efforts of the doctors, the baby did not survive. The family had nothing but praise for the hospital and doctors, and took comfort in knowing that they got best care possible.

That's one reason my ears perked up when I heard Dr. Carson was from JH. I already knew it was a world class institution.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 10:07

You are wrong mk, it doesn't matter what your political leanings are, the policies apply to everyone. I would have been as surprised, and disturbed, if he had shown up on one of the "liberal" networks. You just don't do it and drop, or allow others to drop your employer's name all over the place.

Hopkins is a pretty conservative place, actually. There's a big new research building named for David Koch, several more buildings with the Bloomberg name on them, the most recent is the new children's hospital. A very conservative Maryland Congressman, from the Eastern Shore is/was an Hopkins physician. Hopkins leaders regularly go on to high positions in conservative and moderate associations and think tanks. Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney's crony, was head of the Hopkins SAIS.

But it's not an in-your-face attitude. Academic freedom and thought are rigorously encouraged. But there are policies...................


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Johns Hopkins Medicine leaders, faculty and staff of that policy with instructions on how to contact the Public Affairs Department should we be contacted by someone from the media for a comment in response to a news event or research or for opinion pieces.

They tried that as well at CU Med when the Aurora theatre shooting occurred. Basically a gag order. They had to "clarify" that later with some bromide missive about how the school admin just loved freedom of speech, but, you know, if maybe you had questions on how to answer the press and all, just direct them to our spiffy PR dept.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Basically a gag order. They had to "clarify" that later with some bromide missive about how the school admin just loved freedom of speech,

I've worked for several large companies and also municipalities. Not strange at all to have a policy about how to deal with the press. Especially these days when the press corps is so weak.

But this has nothing to do with the comedy above.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 10:57

Yes, Nik, it applies to everyone - everyone who works for Hopkins Medicine is either faculty or staff. I would suspect they used the word "leader" to ensure that very well-known faculty understand that these policies apply to them too. There are a lot of stars here. :)

I'm so sorry about your friend's child. Hopkins is an outstanding medical center, though I'm sure there are those who disagree. They are caring and kind and knowledgeable and compassionate and very, very skilled.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

No surprise since David Koch and Michael Bloomberg are both large funders of JH Michael Bloomberg committed $350 million to JH, his alma mater, this year alone and over the years he has given over $1 billion.

Edited to add that I agree with mom, it is one of the best hospitals in the country and much research comes from that institution. No surprise that they have policies covering almost everything. It is to protect themselves.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 11:14


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 11:39

Every business has policies about talking to the media. That's why there are so many unattributed comments in news reports - people who aren't authorized to speak are making comments "off the record". Very risky.

Police departments, hospitals, schools, universities, multinational companies, the bakery down the street, governments - federal, state, local, pet shops, countries, EVERYBODY.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

nikoleta wrote,

Momj's memo reminds "medicine leaders, faculty and staff" of the protocol to be followed when contacted by the media...What does a "medicine leader" do? Is that a department head?

You'll want to re-read that memo with a little more care.

Pay attention to the capitalization; that might help.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

mrskjun wrote,

For crying out load [sic]. If Dr.Carson were a liberal and espoused liberal policies you would be free speeching him on every thread. But since he's a conservative, you want to argue over whether there is some policy about his political views. Do you have any idea how it all reads?

Do you have any idea how it reads that you don't understand what "Freedom of Speech" actually means?

I suggest taking another look at the First Amendment to the Constitution. Your confusion is very common on the right, but it's really rather embarrassing nonetheless.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Back when I worked for a state institution, I knew exactly what my free speech rights were.

As an individual, I had the same free speech rights as anyone else. But that meant that as an individual, I was not to mention my title or name of the institution. If I did that, the inference would be (or could be taken to be) that I was somehow speaking as a representative of the institution and thus in some sense stating its position on political subjects--when I was really just giving my own individual opinions, not the institution's opinions.

Back then, I was very active in women's rights politics and often interviewed for comments by the local media. Although everybody in town knew who I was and where I worked, I had to regularly remind the media not to include my title/place of employment since I was not authorized to speak in that capacity at all.

As far as I know, that is the position of most or all professional places of employment.

Kate


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

citywoman2012 wrote,

Besides he is one of the nicest guys you would ever meet or talk with according to my son that he would be above trying to offend anyone with his views.

Yet he believes that homosexual practices are perversions in the same class as sexual abuse of children, incest, and bestiality.

Do you think that view might offend some people? What do you think about that position?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Every business has policies about talking to the media.

Absolutely. I work in the private corporate world. Whenever something happens with my company (we purchase a company, another company purchase us) there is an email about not talking to the press and who to direct inquiries from the press to. And it has nothing to do with "freedom of speech". Geez, the ignorance about the most basic things is just astounding.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Did I state I was through with this thread? Yes, I did, but the flesh is weak.
This thread is another example of how far liberals will go
to cast a bad name and or doubt on a good decent man because he is seen as a threat in some way to the liberal
side of politics.

Momj47 started this thread on the premise he might be
out of line speaking out in regards to the city of Baltimore
(the city no less) and JH.
***************************************
Don't you think maybe the good Dr. knows his limitations
in regard to his personal actions and views in the public
eye .......within whatever policy restrictions he has with JH? I imagine he does.....more than anyone else.

So since we know he is not stupid nor reckless with his
career that is above reproach, then we can assume (lots of that goes on here) this thread was to draw critical comments about the Dr. and to put him in an unfavorable light because he dared to have an opinion that disagreed with the liberal view..


It didn't work. It just showed the extent liberals will go to Now I really am through with this. I'm off to have my head examined for continuing with this silly conversation.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 16:28

You've made incorrect assumptions again. What I said is that he might harm himself in regards to the medical community, especially in Baltimore, and at Johns Hopkins.

That would be the medical community, especially in Baltimore, and at Johns Hopkins. The City is on it's own.

And I have said NOTHING that would cast a bad name or any doubt on a decent man. NOTHING at all. I have nothing but respect for Dr. Carson, and I've stated that several times in the above post.

This is so characteristic, and, sadly, we've come to expect this sort of distortion. There are people on this forum who actually believe the stuff they make up. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Dr. Carson believes the earth is 6,000 years old and homosexual practices are perversions in the same class as sexual abuse of children, incest, and bestiality.

What do you think about the rationality and fairness of those positions? I am particularly interested in whether any conservatives have the courage to state their views, though I'm not optimistic, given history; I expect some combination of silence, evasion, deflection, and subject-changing. Bul I keep an open mind.


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 16:49

Is this finished yet?


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RE: Dr. Carson should be better than this...

Makes me wonder if hospital policies are exactly the same for every single person. Momj's memo reminds "medicine leaders, faculty and staff" of the protocol to be followed when contacted by the media.

Wonder no more. You can easily read the policies on the website. If you add some sense into the mix you will have your answer.

So since we know he is not stupid nor reckless with his
career that is above reproach,

Absolutely no one or their career is above reproach including the doctor. He isn't God.

The only assumptions that are being made are coming from you, others are either stating facts or giving possible scenarios. Stating that he is the most renowned doctor in the world and he is above reproach is either bad assumptions on your part or you have been grossly misinformed. The rest is just more muck and it is starting to smell.


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