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Coverup prediction may come true.

Posted by brushworks Zone5-Ohio (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 16:12

February 13, 2013 :

At approximately 7 PM ET, I listened through a police scanner as San Bernardino Sheriffs gave the order to burn down the cabin where suspected murderer Christopher Dorner was allegedly hiding. Deputies were maneuvering a remote controlled demolition vehicle to the base of the cabin, using it to tear down the walls of the cabin where Dorner was hiding, and peering inside.

n an initial dispatch, a deputy reported seeing “blood spatter” inside the cabins. Dorner, who had just engaged in a firefight with deputies that killed one officer and wounded another, may have been wounded in the exchange. There was no sign of his presence, let alone his resistance, according to police dispatches.

It was then that the deputies decided to burn the cabin down.

“Burn that f****** house down!” shouted a deputy through a scanner transmission inadvertently broadcast on the Los Angeles local news channel, KCAL 9. “F*******ng burn this mother******!” another cop could be heard exclaiming.

Today, the Los Angeles Times reported claims by anonymous “law enforcement sources” that the sheriffs used “incendiary tear gas” to flush Dorner out of the cabin. The sources claimed the deputies who had besieged the cabin were under a “constant barrage of gunfire” and that, “There weren’t a lot of options.”

This is almost certainly a lie. The only mention by a deputy at the scene of a gunshot from inside the cabin was the “single shot” that occurred as soon as the “burners,” or incendiary teargas munitions, were deployed. After that point, deputies made constant mention of ammunition exploding inside the cabin as a result of the intense heat of the fire they set, but said nothing about any shots fired at them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Censorship


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

i stopped believing a public word said from authority long ago...


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 16:56

Funny thing about "cyberspace", tis hard to hide your deeds.

With a total media blackout they thought they were free to do as they please, and they did.

They who were sworn to uphold the law took the law into their own hands, much like Dorner himself did.

Live by the sword....


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Next up, ban police scanners.


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When this first broke on the news on the East Coast, here in MA., I told my husband, "they will never take him alive, they will never allow him to surrender, they will never try to take him alive, he's 'dead man walking" and odds are he knows it. They will never let him live to be charged with anything, go to trial. It would force a full investigation into his claims and odds are a good portion of them if not all are true."

He agreed but hoped some kind of cyberspace something would force a full investigation by outside sources not the police themselves.

Maybe, those police scanners will make it happen.


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Next thing will be to make it a felony for reporting whats overheard on scanners!


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Fire is exactly what we expected. The police lost a chance to regain public trust. There was no hostage here, unlike the excuse given for killing the kidnapper in the bunker.

Wrap it up! Wrap it up! Revenge! NOT what you want from Officers of the Law.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

An in depth investigation into the corruption of LA or other Cali Police Departments will not happen unless something a lot larger blows up and they are forced to investigate by public demand.

i would imagine police scanners will be made illegal sooner rather than later...


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

"i would imagine police scanners will be made illegal sooner rather than later... "

Right. "For our own good."

Will the sheeple let it happen?


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And then that sheriff gets up at the press conference and says that this fire was NOT intentional.

Ummmmm. Scuse me?


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

A conspiracy, really? Once you kill a couple of police officers and vow to die in a revenge and vow never to be taken alive, guess what?
You deserve the fate that you wanted (and advertised for in this case).

Sorry if this makes some Right Wingers nervous and all teary eyed about what happened to Koresh, but it is what it is.
You want powerful assault weapons to go up against the Police, the FBI and the government in a Second Amendment stand-off for freedom, this is what happens to you. You lose, and you gawn. Good riddance to this guy and shame on those who defend this crazed cop killer.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Heri, don't get me wrong. This guy screwed up when he killed that girl. I've read the manifesto, and frankly I get the feeling this guy really did get a screw job from the number one LA street gang. And if his paper is accurate, then although I don't condone his actions, I understand them. But in videos shown on MSM, you can dsitinctly hear at two different times, cops talking about lighting this guy up. And then (I believe) the San Bernardino COunty Sheriff gets up in front of the cameras and says this fire was not intentional. Come on, heri-- even as blind as you are, you should still be able to see this for what it is.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Good riddance to this guy and shame on those who defend this crazed cop killer.

I'll bet you never even read the manifesto, and yet, you pass judgement like this. But when I do it, I should be tarred and feathered along with the rest of the wingnuts. Even now, the LAPD Chief says he's going to reinvestigate his claims. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the henhouse! This should be investigated by an independent body, like the FBI, or a special prosecutor from the justice dept.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

You don't have to believe what Dorner said. These guys proved what they are all by themselves.

Nothing to see, folks. All over. Move along.


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What would be a real rip is if the body in the burned out cabin turns out NOT to be Dorner.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 22:17

Heri perhaps you misunderstood, no one is defending the actions of Dorner but in this country we have a system of laws and a criminal still gets "their day in court" even if we (collective we) believe he/she is guilty. We are judged by a jury of our peers and sentencing is handed down by the same and/or a judge.

The police do not get to pronounce sentence on anyone. Period.

Yes Dorner killed four people and he should have stood trial for his crimes. However, he was isolated in a cabin with no hostages and no citizens in harms way. Even the media was blacked out and told to leave the area, including news helicopters.

So instead of setting up a secure area around the cabin they decided he had to "burn" for his crimes.

If you are okay with bypassing the constitution fine, I am not.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

With a total media blackout they thought they were free to do as they please, and they did.

They who were sworn to uphold the law took the law into their own hands, much like Dorner himself did.

Live by the sword....

This guy screwed up when he killed that girl. I've read the manifesto, and frankly I get the feeling this guy really did get a screw job from the number one LA street gang. And if his paper is accurate, then although I don't condone his actions, I understand them. ...

Talk about putting the fox in charge of the henhouse!

These guys proved what they are all by themselves.


I agree with you all.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

I can kind of understand what Bill's saying, here...

The old saying goes, you can't fight city hall... and I believe that's true, unless you're prepared to make a lot of noise, very publicly, and do something that will net the full attention of both the public AND city hall.

While I don't condone the guy's actions, I can understand why he felt he had to do something drastic.

Whistle blowers are not well liked, often not believed, many times silenced, and occasionally made to disappear. In order to gain an audience, or an ear that hears, it's sometimes necessary to go out with a bang... no pun intended.


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Om: Dorner was actively killing people. He was armed and dangerous. He had just killed a police officer. He was very clever and very elusive and I think the police wanted to make sure he did not slip away and kill more people.

You are saying the cops should have taken him alive but you can just as easily say that Dorner should have allowed himself to be taken into custody. He was a cop and knew the drill.

Why should he get a forum to air his grievances? Would giving this guy an audience cause others with grievances to follow his lead? I don't think that's something that should be encouraged.

The cop he killed left behind two small children - a 7 year old girl and a 4 month old boy. I think we should direct our sympathies to that family and the other who were affected by this killer's spree.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 22:35

Well I might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb ... but I do not believe the path Dorner chose was the right one, and there had to be a better way to handle this than to take the lives of these people. I wish he had found that way. Nothing justifies his actions.

I guess for me it is more a case of the "letter of the law" not being followed by the cops. They do not get to act as judge and executioner.


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Agreed-- nothing justifies his actions. But I have to wonder-- this guy is a decorated veteran, with years on the police force. He HAD to know how this was going to end, and yet, he still felt it necessary to make people listen to what he had to say. It's no stretch to believe that the LAPD is as dirty as the day is long. It's been systemic for decades, and I'm usually one to stand up for the police. But I have no problem believing Dormer's claims, especially as specific as he gets in his manifesto. I'll be curious to see if anything really comes of this, or if it goes back to status quo.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 23:10

Burn that f****** house down! F*******ng burn this mother******

He committed horrific crimes, and died for them.

It's a good thing his wallet, including a plastic driver's license survived the flames intact, because his body was burned beyond description and DNA was needed to prove it was him.

Nothing will come from this Bill, because he took the wrong path. It was his choice.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Bill, we don't often agree, but this time we sure do.

Talk about "the fox cleaning out the chicken coop". how much do you want to bet that whatever investigation is done, reinvestigation on Dorner's claims, the end result will be exactly the same?

There is no way possible that "the fox" is gonna declare "OOPS, Dorner was right all along." Just isn't going to happen.

Nor is anything going to result in any investigation on what happened in this shoot out. No way.

I don't think there is anyone on HT that will support the horrible actions that Dorner took, no one will condone it, and I would venture to guess, that in the end, he new what his actions would cause.
This was a clear case of suicide by cops, exactly what I think all of us expected.

The FBI needs to be involved in this investigation, both of them now.

Truth be told, one can not honestly and fairly investigate ones self and that is exactly what the Cops did the first time, going to do a second time unless stopped and will do about this shoot out.

There really are no excuses all the way around.

How sad it would be to find out that Dorner was telling the truth all along, no one would listen to him when he told the truth. He lost his job etc over telling the truth.

The end result is how it affected his life, his thinking, how it ultimately destroyed his life and ended his life.

And quite possibly all of this could have been averted with the truth, the plain and simple truth.


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there is no cover up they had to kill him since he was not willing to surrender peacefully. Given he was not willing to surrender peacefully it does not matter who you are you will be killed by the cops.


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I need to clarify something that evidently some people are missing: Just because the whole Dorner event, from beginning to end, brings up red flags and in many ways indicts the LAPD and actually suggests that the LAPD is still a corrupt gang, does not mean in any way that anyone here agrees with Dormer's actions.

It is never justifiable to target, hunt down and kill others. Why do I even have to say that?

This story from the start put up red flags. Then, in the end, the LAPD had their way. In the middle, somewhere, is a murky truth, and hopefully the truth will out.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

In a recent chase conducted by Cleveland Police which eventually ended with 137 rounds fired at a car with 2 unarmed suspects, a patrolman tweeted during the chase.....

"Cowboys and Indians. Horses everywhere".

Driver Timothy Russell and passenger Malissa Williams led 51 Cleveland police cars on a 24-minute pursuit. It ended in East Cleveland with 13 officers firing 137 rounds into the suspects' vehicle.

Each was shot more than 20 times in the head and chest. Police say a shot fired from Russell's car started the chase.

Investigators never found a gun and have yet to reveal whether either suspect fired a shot.


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How sad it would be to find out that Dorner was telling the truth all along, no one would listen to him when he told the truth. He lost his job etc over telling the truth.

Well then why didn't he just start a web site and a blog like people do when they have a gripe?


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

JG,

Really? Do we need to start a blog to file a grievance? I thought we governed America by the "rule of law".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You do know that whistle-blowers are imprisoned, condemned, or obliterated in this country, right?


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We could, and probably should, repeat this:

"I need to clarify something that evidently some people are missing: Just because the whole Dorner event, from beginning to end, brings up red flags and in many ways indicts the LAPD and actually suggests that the LAPD is still a corrupt gang, does not mean in any way that anyone here agrees with Dormer's actions."

True, dat! Still, the police force does not get to play Judge/Jury/Executioner!


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This man murdered innocent people who had NOTHING to do with his complaints. It's them we should have empathy for not this guy.

I don't care if he was right, this was wrong and just as bad as what he accuses the LAPD of.....maybe worse.

The whole thing needs an independent investigation.


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I'm always puzzled at people whose empathy has to be either/or. Personally, I find my capacity for empathy grows the more I extend it, so it's rather sad to me when people suggest that an individual's ability to be empathetic is some sort of limited resource that you have to divide carefully.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

I thought we governed America by the "rule of law".

I thought so too, which is why I condemn him taking the law into his own hands. There were other ways to air his grievances.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

posted by jerzeegirl:
"Would giving this guy an audience cause others with grievances to follow his lead? I don't think that's something that should be encouraged."

You posted this in response to someone who was talking about Dorner going to trial rather than being murdered by the LAPD.

Do you really think that giving people constitutional trials is a "forum to air thier grievances"? That it might encourage more crime for people to know that criminals do in fact get trials? That trial shouldn't be encouraged?

I am trying to test my understanding here, because what you're saying is really appalling in regard to the person you claimed to be responding too. It isn't the sort of backwards policy ideas I would have expected from what I have seen of your prior posts.

Edited because I keep trying to use UBB quote tags on an HTML board.

This post was edited by TxanGoddess on Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 9:50


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

little""""""How sad it would be to find out that Dorner was telling the truth all along, no one would listen to him when he told the truth. He lost his job etc over telling the truth. The end result is how it affected his life, his thinking, how it ultimately destroyed his life and ended his life. "


It makes no difference whether he was telling the truth or not. His killing rampage made him more corrupt and dangerous than those he was accusing. There were other processes he could have chosen...........there is absolutely no excuse for what Dorner did.



elly""""This story from the start put up red flags. Then, in the end, the LAPD had their way. In the middle, somewhere, is a murky truth, and hopefully the truth will out."


True the LA police department has a dirty reputation and grievances/complaints/claims against it need to be investigated, including Dorner's........however, that in absolutely no way rectifies Dorner's actions. In fact, unless I missed something, Dorner's violence wasn't only perpetrated toward LA officers, against who his angst was supposedly directed, but extended to LEO's from other departments as well as civilians.


I wasn't at the cabin, don't know the choices nor circumstances when the fire began. I only know that he had to be stopped. If he had been arrested, those followers who now hail him as a "hero of justice" would have hired him a bleeding heart lawyer and he could possibly have received a "very short" sentence for four counts of cold blooded murder. Do I feel bad because Dorner died? Absolutely not. My sympathies and heart go out to those listed below and their loved ones and also to Dorner's family.

KILLED " Monica Quan, and her fiance Keith Lawrence. Quan's father, Randal represented Dorner in the officer's failed appeal of his dismissal to a department Board of Rights. Dorner allegedly posted an online rant naming Quan and others that says: "I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I'm terminating yours."

KILLED "Michael Crain, a police officer with the city of Riverside, was mortally wounded on Feb. 7 in an ambush shooting as he sat in a police car at a stoplight. Crain, 34, leaves his wife, a 4-year-old daughter and a son, 10."

KILLED "Jeremiah MacKay, a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy, was killed on Feb. 12 after a shootout with Dorner. MacKay, a detective with the department for 15 years, leaves behind a wife, a 7-year-old daughter and a 4-month-old son."

WOUNDED""""" "A Riverside officer, Andrew Tachias was shot Feb. 7 while he was on patrol with Officer Michael Crain, 34, who was fatally wounded when the gunfire erupted while they were waiting at a red light."

WOUNDED""""" "They say Dorner also wounded an LAPD officer who chased him into nearby Corona."


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

What I mean is that these high profile mass murders are done so the killer has a way to get attention - like for example Anders Brievik with his manifesto, and the movie theater killer in Colorado who had everything written in a journal. In the case of Sandy Hook the msm made a concerted effort to not talk much about the killer and his beliefs because why give him a forum which might encourage other budding killers out there to take the same path. Of course, if Dorner had something to say about the police force, we ALL want to hear it. But couldn't he think of a better way to get attention than killing innocent people? I am afraid I don't have that much sympathy or empathy for him.


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  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 10:14

Should have just droned him... then it would have been all good.


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So it would be ok with some folks if the Aurora theatre shooter wasn't allowed to surrender and given a trial.

That ways, we don't have to spend time asking him questions trying to figuring out what went wrong and why he did it.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Littleonefb said "they will never take him alive...They will never let him live to be charged with anything, go to trial. It would force a full investigation into his claims and odds are a good portion of them if not all are true."

Funny, I wonder the same thing about Osama Bin Laden.


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I am glad that the Aurora shooter is going to get a trial. I prefer these guys getting captured because I am interested in why they think mass killing is the answer to their problems. What I don't prefer is when they become folk heroes just because they went up against "the man". Outlaw as hero is part of the history of this country so it's no surprise that Dorner is assuming that mantle.

Do you think that if Dorner waved a white flag and gave himself up, that the police would have shot him anyway? Just curious.

This post was edited by jerzeegirl on Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 10:32


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The man killed people he had no issue with to get back at people he did have issues with. That is not the sign of a rational person. He clearly has mental issues like so many who commit these heinous acts.

I have great empathy for anyone suffering a mental health issue and from that perspective I have empathy for him.

No matter what he did the police had no right to kill him if there was an option for arrest followed by trial. That , and the allegations that led to his breakdown, should be investigated independent of the LAPD.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

While I respect and demand due process, and loath Police actions that infringe on citizens Rights, it is not always possible for Police to capture a suspect when they are dealing with an armed and dangerous killer, especially when the guy has killed cops and continues to shoot at them.

Dorner had launched a deadly revenge campaign against the LAPD and vowed that he would bring "warfare" to LAPD officers and their families. In an on line manifesto Dorner stated that he had no fear of losing his life and would wage "unconventional and asymmetrical warfare" and warned officers "you will now live the life of the prey." That is the guy you are worried about?

He was holed up in that cabin and shot back at Police SWAT teams,,,bad idea, especially just after he killed a deputy sheriff.

There is no case to be made here for allowing this dangerous, armed suicidal maniac killer to continue his shooting rampage.
Please, if you want to make a point about Police ignoring the requirements of Due Process, using excessive force, etc., this is not the case.

Once you start shooting bullets at a Police officer, you forfeit your rights and are probably going down.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

The burning was not an accident. It was a planned maneuver.

Tear gas would have been sufficient means to bring the man out or totally incoherent to allow for capture. He chose suicide over capture (we think). Have you ever been gassed? Try it sometime.

Read the scanner transcripts.


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He could have had a gas mask.


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Unlikely, since he used a getaway car to arrive at the cabin.

After the single gunshot coming from within the cabin, would you have waited or ignited the fire?


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"I thought we governed America by the "rule of law"."

We do... or we try to... except when those charged with enforcing it are morally bent, corrupt. Then what?

We shouldn't have to choose a side to empathize with... we can feel for all parties involved. I feel bad for the many victims of a corrupt system...


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It makes no difference whether he was telling the truth or not. His killing rampage made him more corrupt and dangerous than those he was accusing. There were other processes he could have chosen...........there is absolutely no excuse for what Dorner did.

Now where did I say there was an excuse for Dorner's actions?

Where did anyone say there was any excuse for them?

NO where on this thread, that's for sure.

The facts remain, that it appears highly likely that Dorner was telling the truth, and that the fact he was not believed drove him over the edge to take the actions that he did.

No they where certainly not correct, there is nothing to argue about that.

But what I stated is a very disturbing thought. If, what he claimed was true and yet he was ignored and lost his job over, then he, Dorner who was probably border emotionally unstable over blowing the whistle, was pushed over the edge by the results of the investigation and this disaster was the end result for him.

And yes Brat, it is quite conceivable that if Dorner's claims where true and an investigation showed that, the truth, then these events might never have taken place.

Does that excuse Dorner's ultimate actions, now way, but it is also quite possible that the police could have held out and not done what they did.

It appears that they didn't want Dorner taken alive, as he would have been given his due rights under the law, had an attorney, had a trial and all through the process would have been the push for a full investigation of his claims and how the original investigation was a sham, probably FBI brought in and other outsiders to investigate. Good chance that Dorner would have been proven correct in his claims.

Agaiin, Brat, no one believes that Dorner was justified in what he did, no one will support his actions, and that includes me.

That doesn't mean that we don't understand his desperation to clear his name, understand that he felt he had to take this kind of action to clear his name, nor does it mean that he wasn't deserving of his constitutional rights either.


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This isn't ABOUT Dorner -- although he certainly knew the sort of people he was dealing with.

It IS about the failure of these Officers of the Peace to act professionally. They didn't. They were set like dogs to kill.

What a missed opportunity to show rationality and to uphold the Law in the face of this challenge. What a SHAME that we all knew this would be the outcome.


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  • Posted by RpR_ 3-4 (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 15:34

If more than one police officer had been killed trying to capture him, would all you self-righteous people feel better?

How many more 2-3-7...?


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I'm sorry, but I don't remember reading in the Constitution that it only applies if less than a certain number of law enforcement or other people are killed.

We don't know what else, if anything, the police could have/should have done to insure he was taken alive. But, from what brush posted, it seems they weren't interested in anything but killing Dorner. I value my constitutional rights too much to condone that.


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Exactly, Dockside.

Knowing full well what human beings are capable of, I would not count out any of the corruption alluded to or the accusations Dorner made on his webpage. They could very well be true, but it doesn't matter if the department or people in question are never investigated by a source without bias.

And even if none of the accusation made are true, none of it gives the police any right to meet murder with murder.


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I thought so too, which is why I condemn him taking the law into his own hands. There were other ways to air his grievances.

Who condone this? Who are you talking to?

there is absolutely no excuse for what Dorner did.

Who has excused this?

however, that in absolutely no way rectifies Dorner's actions.

Who said anything about rectifying his actions?

If more than one police officer had been killed trying to capture him, would all you self-righteous people feel better?

HELLO? Are you r e a d i n g? Hello?

Maybe you feel better about yourselves by suggesting anyone who looks closely at what happened and questions the LAPD "condones" Dorner's horrible actions.

Nice to have opinions. Please base them on reality.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Someone who actually reads: what do you think of this article on a LATimes blog?

Here is a link that might be useful: Please read me then think. Elly does not condone Dormer's actions!


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I also agree with Dockside.

Elly, there is no need to sweat the small stuff. By far the vast majority knows exactly where you stand on this issue.

I want to make sure I express this correctly. According to what Dorner wrote, integrity, doing the right thing were values he placed as top priority for himself and for those in a position of authority. That so many he worked with and for did not when it came to dealing with himself as well as with the public they are supposed to serve - this seemed to be his major complaint, when his thoughts are distilled as I interpret his writings.

My sympathies would be with him on those complaints, even if he might not have been correct on every single point: this dept was not what a person in this country would want for their town or for their country, and would certainly want the federal govt ( if that was the only effective recourse available to the town) to come in, clean up, replace from top to bottom and prosecute illegal actions where possible.

But, lets say that killing the guilty within that dept was justified for Dorner due to the circumstances he found within the dept he worked in. So why did his first, very carefully planned executions involve two people who did not know him, never work for the dept or have anything to do with the behavior as people in positions of power - those issues he so rejected - except for incidental that one of them were a child of a major player.

If everything else can be accepted as a sympathetic reaction to the injustice around him, it was to me his very first move in his choice for rectification that makes him and his own integrity ultimately as bad as those he accused. I keep feeling like I must have missed something vital where he could ever figure the murder of those two innocent people to be anything other than self indulgence and self gratification: " Now you will feel my pain".

The point would have been made with the executions of two officers he considered to be guilty.

I fear that all the justified objections he lodged will be swept under the run due to his own actions - even though those objections have now brought a spotlight on that dept. Perhaps, I fear, no matter what group would ever do such an investigation would now have a kind of sympathy fir all those involved. There is ugly found in every organization, none of them would ever want it to be exposed in such a frightful manner and if there are big changes due to the Dorner story, then Dorner 'won' and that opens that door to others to perhaps enact change in the same way. I really worry that maybe one token big slap will take place to quiet the masses - then it will be over because we will be focused on something new.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

The forensic evidence suggests that Dorner killed himself, but for conspiracy theorists, that bullet in his head from his own weapon was probably planted by the LAPD.


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RE: Coverup prediction may come true.

Well said, mylab.


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