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True Honesty

Posted by citywoman2012 none (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 17:44

I guess nothing could say more concerning who you really are..than finding cash and turning it in.
How easy would that be to do?
What if you were in desperate need?
If you were about to lose your home?
You had just lost your job and had children?
Some of these situations could have applied to these people..who knows.
Would you have doubts of your action for at least a few
seconds...a minute...an hour?
......Casino Worker Finds $10,000 In Restroom, Turns Tt Right In.
By Mike Krumboltz : The Sideshow � Fri, Feb 8, 2013....

A cleaning woman at the Thunder Valley Casino near Sacramento, Calif., hit the jackpot when she found $10,000 in cash in the women's restroom last week. But the lucky woman didn't take the money and run. Instead, Meuy Saelee turned in the stack of Benjamins to her supervisor and got a nice bonus in return for her honesty.

CBS-13 in Sacramento spoke to Saelee about the discovery. She said she found the cash at around 2:30 a.m. in the casino's high-stakes restroom. Saelee says she didn't hesitate to do the right thing.

Upon giving the $10,000 to its rightful owner, Saelee was presented with a $500 thank-you.

The Web is full of stories of people doing the right thing when temptation strikes. Just a few months ago, an Austrian bus driver made headlines for returning a bag with 390,000 euros (nearly $510,000). Last October, a Vegas cab driver found $221,510 in the back of his taxi; he returned it and got a $2,000 tip. And in Singapore last November, a taxi driver found a bag with $900,000. When asked why he returned it, the man said, "The money is unimportant to me. It doesn't belong to me, so how can I use it?"

...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: True Honesty

I honestly don't know what I would do if I found a large amount of money under circumstances where someone would miss it. I have found small amounts of cash, i.e., a dollar or maybe even a $20, on the ground in a parking lot, say, and I put it into my pocket and felt lucky--like finding a penny.

A large amount? I would like to think I would turn it in. But! If I found it seemingly abandoned, I think I would keep it. In other words, if I found it under circumstances in which it was unlikely the rightful owner could be found, say, while digging for treasure at a deserted location, all bets would probably be off.


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RE: True Honesty

Someone in my family once found a large chunk of money and was thrilled at her good luck, She had absolutely no compunction about keeping the cash and did not for even a moment consider finding the $$$'s owner. Would I do the same thing? I have no idea.


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RE: True Honesty

elvis...all of the above cases were situations of owners
more than likely being found.
I would know that money belonged to someone.

I can't remember exactly how the story went but I do remember a person turning a large huge amount of money into the police that was found in the woods or some unlikely place.

I'm not sure what I would do in a case like that to be
perfectly honest. I really don't.
Figure it belong to a rich chipmunk? :)


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RE: True Honesty

Tis true, money is the root of evil but everybody needs it.

Could anyone really know beyond a doubt if they wouldn't
be tempted?


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RE: True Honesty

If I find a 10.00 or 20.00, or even a 100.00 bill on the ground, that's one thing. Even then, if someone were to come around asking if I'd seen it, I'd give it up. But to find a large sum of money? There's no question I'd turn it in. I HAVE lost (at the time) a large sum of money-- back during the recession in the 90's, my ex and I took the kids to a local country fair and after reaching into my pocket and pulling out the money for the entrance fee, I didn't realize that when I did that, I must've pulled 3 100.00 bills out far enough to fall on the ground. Needless to say, that was the shortest fair trip we ever made, and to say that we were all disappointed would be an understatement. As bad as things were at the time, we didn't do much for enjoyment, and we'd all looked forward to this. We didn't get anything shut off as a result, so it could've been much worse, but just the same, it sure felt pretty bad at the time.


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RE: True Honesty

Tis true, money is the root of evil

That's what "they" say, but "they" are wrong. it's not money that's the root of all evil. it's the LOVE, or DESIRE of money.


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RE: True Honesty

You are right Bill.


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RE: True Honesty

citywoman2012 wrote,

I guess nothing could say more concerning who you really are..than finding cash and turning it in.

That reveals a certain type of character. But another important measure of honesty is whether one readily admits it when one discovers he or she is wrong. Many fail that test.


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RE: True Honesty

Nice to know there are people out there who do know what they would do under the circumstances, and did it. The right thing. I also can't help but notice that many of these stories involve immigrants who did the right thing.

There are many other instances out there including the infamous time YoYo Ma left his Stradivarius cello in a NYC cab and got it back but this is one of my favorites that I remember when it was covered on the news here...I love the thank you.

Cabdriver Thanked for Returning a Stradivarius
Philippe Quint, far from his usual concert sites, played for cabdrivers at Newark Liberty International Airport on Tuesday as a thank-you for one driver's honesty.

By RICHARD G. JONES
Published: May 7, 2008

NEWARK � The violinist stood on a makeshift stage between two lampposts crowned with a patina of bird droppings, under a weathered vinyl canopy hastily erected outside Newark Liberty International Airport in the taxicab holding area. The audience watched him in awe, about 50 drivers in three rows, their yellow cabs a few feet behind, some lined up neatly, others askew.

As Philippe Quint spent half an hour playing five selections, the cabbies clapped and whistled. They danced in the aisles, hips gyrating like tipsy belly dancers. "Magic fingers, magic fingers," one called out. Another grabbed the hand of Mr. Quint's publicist and did what looked like a merengue across the front of the "stage."

Afterward, the virtuoso was mobbed by drivers seeking his autograph on dollar bills, napkins and cab receipts.

"It was so pleasing to see people dancing - that never happens," said Mr. Quint, 34, a Grammy-nominated classical violinist. "These people, they work so hard, I doubt they get a chance to get out to Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center."

So Mr. Quint took Carnegie Hall to them, in a miniconcert that was his way of expressing a simple sentiment: Thank you.

On April 21, Mr. Quint accidentally left a Stradivarius violin, valued at $4 million, in the back seat of a cab that he took from the airport to Manhattan on his return from a performance in Dallas. After several frantic hours, the Newark police told him the violin had been found and was at the airport taxi stand with the cabdriver who had taken him home. The two connected, and the violin was returned.

"Anybody out here would have done the same thing," said the driver, Mohammed Khalil, waving a hand at his laughing, dancing colleagues.

The city of Newark awarded Mr. Khalil, who has driven a taxi here since 1985, a Medallion, its highest honor. Mr. Quint gave him a $100 tip when the violin was returned, but he wanted to do more, so he arranged for Tuesday's concert in a parking-lot-turned-theater.

Clad in black, with his dark hair falling over his closed eyes, Mr. Quint dazzled the crowd with a theme from the movie "The Red Violin"; Gershwin's "It Ain't Necessarily So"; a Paganini Variation; and the Meditation from Massenet's opera "Tha�s." Joined by his friend Michael Bacon, a guitarist (and the brother of the actor Kevin Bacon), Mr. Quint played a piece they had composed, "Seduction Blues."

On the horizon, there was the blocky spire that was the air traffic control tower. Every now and then a seagull would alight on one of the trailers where the cabbies play dominoes during their wait for fares. Occasionally, a silhouetted plane would glide by overhead, providing a rumbling accompaniment to the music.

But despite the setting - or maybe because of it - Mr. Quint's audience seemed particularly moved by his gesture.

"I like that he came here," Ebenezer Sarpeh, 46, said, in the accent of his native Ghana. "And, yeah, the music, I like it."

It was Mr. Sarpeh who burst into spontaneous applause on several occasions and started yelling "magic fingers" during one particularly deft moment. Later, he took a turn in front of the stage and his fellow cabdrivers laughed and cheered while he shimmied and moonwalked, the Newark Taxi Cab Association's answer to Justin Timberlake.

Like many of the cabdrivers in attendance, Mr. Sarpeh said it was the first recital by a classical violinist that he had ever attended. A few confessed that they had little more than a passing familiarity with such music. But they were proud to surround Mr. Khalil, who sat front row center in a black suit with a pink shirt and matching tie.

"If one cabby does something good, we feel like we all do something good," said Patrick Cosmeus, 43, who has been driving for a decade and seemed a little sheepish as he admitted that he had seldom found anything more valuable than a forgotten cellphone in his taxi. "But everything we find, we always return it," he added.

"Everything we find is valuable to someone," Mr. Khalil pointed out. "If you lost your pen, you would think it was valuable."

The violin that Mr. Quint left behind, which had been lent by two benefactors, was still being inspected for any problems from its journey, so he played the Tuesday program on a Guarneri.

Afterward, Mr. Quint posed for photographs with Mr. Khalil, whom he has also invited to a September concert at Weill Recital Hall at Carnegie Hall. As he signed autographs, he retold the story of his lost violin and its triumphant return.

"He saw how distressed I was," Mr. Quint said of Mr. Khalil. "He just gave it back to me and he noticed I was in no condition to go home by myself. So he said, "Why don't I give you a ride home?" I said, "No, no, it's OK, I'll take a bus, I'll take another taxi. He said, "No, I'm happy to give you a ride back, because you're my last customer."

As he had planned for months, Mr. Khalil retired from driving a cab the day he took Mr. Quint home.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cabdriver thanked for returning a Strad


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RE: True Honesty

But another important measure of honesty is whether one readily admits it when one discovers he or she is wrong. Many fail that test.

not to mention a bad winner that just won't let it go.


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RE: True Honesty

Agree, Bill, Bad sportsmanship and good sportsmanship should apply to all the players, one would think.

Sometimes a sore loser isn't a sore loser at all until the victorious one(s) rub(s) it in...again and again. At some point the victory may then become hollow and even distasteful, leading to some real ugly. It's a shame, really. And as any kind of tool toward furthering better communication let alone making a meaningful point, it is a worthless exercise, IMO.


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RE: True Honesty

"not to mention a bad winner that just won't let it go..."

when you have been proven wrong...its simple...just acknowlege it . (rather than go on a further , unrelated attack)

then it can be let go.


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RE: True Honesty

"when you have been proven wrong...its simple...just acknowlege it."

This may be why so many marriages end in divorce; why so few have really close true friends. Kind of irritating to keep getting nagged till that admission is verbalized. Another hollow victory. Is this really necessary in order for one to feel vindicated, or should I say validated?


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RE: True Honesty

this is a debate forum Elvis.....not a marriage.

but if you want to (for whatever reason known only to you )equate it to a marriage...then what would you say about the whining one who keeps repeating "oh you just want to feel superior all the time"

its al about taking responsibity for what you write on this debate forum.


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RE: True Honesty

Meh.


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RE: True Honesty

I think where something like this is found is also important, not just the amount.

I found $50 in a Mall parking lot once. Not to mention that it was far out where I park (I always park far away as an excuse to exercise) and there weren't any other cars parked near me when I parked, or when I was leaving.

I felt pretty certain that any attempt to hunt down a rightful owner would be fruitless, though I did still go back in and ask mall security if anyone had reported missing money; I felt no qualms when I ultimatley pocketed it.

OTOH, my father lost a large amount (four digits) of cash once at my younger brother's YMCA baseball game in the stands. This was at a grouping of say, 30 families, who all knew each other, from the same community, for a wholesome purpose, and it was in a money clip with his initials. It's possible the person who found it didn't know who RLT represented right away, but they wouldn't have had to go to much trouble to find out either.

There's no excuse for that sort of dishonesty imo. In fact, I almost think more of an outright thief. "Be a sinner and sin boldly" Martin Luther(probably misquoted). Just drifting into dishonesty out of [bad? good?] luck is pathetic.

Dad always said he simply hoped the finder needed it more than he did.


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RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 10:29

Of course we always try and return money, or any thing of value that we find. Don't you at least stop and look around when you find something - and not to see if any one saw you find it, but to see if anyone is looking for something they lost? I think most of us are basically very honest.

A dollar - not so much if you or I lost if, but what if you see a five year old, crying because they lost their birthday money - and you find it? Would you return it, or say tough luck kid?

The same thing goes for other "small" amounts of money. I think most of us stop and look around, maybe even ask.

And a really large amount of money or something of value, and who's to say what "large" is - it's not ours, so it's not ours to keep, and we know that. We'd make every attempt to get it back to who ever lost it. Of course, these days, you have to be careful who you leave it with - the kid in lost and found - no. A store manager - possibly. The police - probably a better choice.


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RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 10:31

Not "found money" but recently I stopped at the gas station and when I got home I discovered the clerk gave me back too much change, I hopped in the car and returned it.

Yesterday I stopped at the grocer and the same thing happened, except this time I knew immediately that she gave me too much and handed it back.

One day on the way to the store I found some money on the ground (a small amount) and I was really broke. When I got to the grocer there was a stand set up for collecting money for the homeless, the "found money" went into the box. Laugh if you want, but I figured that it was left/lost for a purpose that I just didn't know about yet. :)

Finding a substantial amount of money, even if no one is around, you have to "know" that the person who lost it needs it back. You can turn it into the local police department, if no one claims it within a certain amount of time it is returned to the finder.


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RE: True Honesty

I would agree with you Ohiomom.

Although most people seem to use debit cards these days, when people paid for purchases with cash, frequently which required getting money back from the cashier, it was very important to make sure that if you were given too much money back, the excess be returned to the cashier.

Years ago a friend and I had a debate about this point while walking out of a grocery store together. She had been given, as part of her change, ten extra dollars accidentally.

She commented that she had just "made" ten dollars. I asked her if she was aware that in many places, the cashier was required to pay for such a discrepancy from her till out of her own pocket. This information did not seem to make a difference to my friend's outlook on the excess money she was walking away with. She made the comment that it wasn't her mistake, perhaps the cashier (certainly not in a good paying job in the first place) would "learn" from her mistake by the loss of ten dollars from her paycheck.

I didn't hang out with that person much anymore.


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RE: True Honesty

I have just a few times found small amounts of money just laying on the ground close to nothing. I kept it. But if it was a substantial amount, I think I'd put an ad in the paper. Sometimes I don't trust turning cash in to stores.

Of course if it's a wallet, I call the name in the wallet and give or mail it back.


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RE: True Honesty

I will 'fess up to two recent events where I Sinned against Corporate America, both involving mail-order establishments, whose names I will not use as the statue of limitations is yet to run out.

I ordered one of my kids a backpack - usually around $200, on sale for $120. When the order came, there were two backpacks in the box, only charged for one. And here I am, 4 years later, and you can see the moral, Shakespearian torment my non-returning the extra backpack is causing me.

The second occasion, I ordered two pair of gaiters for hiking/skiing, again on sale, at the end of the summer. The box came stuffed with gaiters, 8 pair in total. Clearly, this was a kid working in some vast, cold, inhospitable corporate warehouse who had just been chewed out by a supervisor - a cousin to the foreman hired on because of relations, not competence, and was seeking some quiet revenge. I empathized and kept them. Their provenance in mind, I have redistributed several pair to those in need.


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RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 12:39

Lily I think an "ad in the paper" would be the wrong way to go, as I said you can turn it in to the local police department, anyone who lost that much money would surely report it no? If the money (or anything else you find) is not claimed it is returned to the "finder".

This past Christmas season some people got multiple phones, and contacted Best Buy, they were told to keep them.

Sorry David my conscience would "fry" if I kept something I knew did not belong to me :)


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RE: True Honesty

I once found 75.00 folded in a grocery cart. I turned it in to the office and thirty days later they called me to come in and pick it up because no one claimed it.


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RE: True Honesty

This has been a fun thread, I've really enjoyed it! :)


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RE: True Honesty

Elvis wrote,

"when you have been proven wrong...its simple...just acknowlege it."
This may be why so many marriages end in divorce; why so few have really close true friends.

I agree. Far too many people won't take personal responsibility for their words, preferring to evade or deny rather than act honestly. That makes for an untrustworthy partner or friend.


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RE: True Honesty

bill_vincent wrote,

not to mention a bad winner that just won't let it go.

It's very revealing that you view resolving issues of truth to result in "winners" and losers. I think that is an essential element in understanding why some conservatives are so fearful of admitting their misstatements. They are viciously protective of their image and view even discussions of a factual nature as competitions to be won or lost. Very interesting.


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RE: True Honesty

DH and I had a friend who use to say he would leave his
money, his darkest secret and his beautiful wife in the care of my husband without a thought.

I can say , I would leave my money in the care of any or
all of you without a thought.

Once I drove 22 miles back to Sears to return $20 I was overpaid.
Found a diamond ring and it drove me crazy til I found
the owner.
My actions of honesty couldn't be questioned but if I
found a large sum of money in the woods....on my front
step :) , by a garbage dump, in an unmarked dirty sack,
or thrown, I would have to sit down.....and I would be tempted.
That being said ....I know what I would do at the end of the day but just saying .....I think the adrenalin level
would be off the charts.
I envy you that would know the second what you would do.
I think all the cases in the article above would go without saying.

In the woods.....miles from anywhere....$299,999.00?
In an old dirty sack? Help me out here.
For a second?


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RE: True Honesty

Factoman-- this is about debate in this forum. ALL debate has a winner and loser, as you yourself have rightly said in a couple of your diatribes. So yes, it's about winners and losers.


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RE: True Honesty

My daughter, at age 16 found an envelope with $500 in it at an ATM. She took the money into the bank and left her name and phone number.

Several weeks later she went in to see of it had been claimed. It had been and the person who lost it was given my daughters name and number. She never heard a word.

Left a bad taste in her mouth. She felt a thank you would have been in order. I recall her saying that at least she did the right thing but she didn't think the person who lost the money did.


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RE: True Honesty

bill_vincent wrote,

Factoman-- this is about debate in this forum. ALL debate has a winner and loser, as you yourself have rightly said in a couple of your diatribes. So yes, it's about winners and losers.

A sincere debate about a position may have a winner and a loser, but establishing the truth of a simple factual matter is not an issue of victory and defeat, because both parties are aligned in trying to establish the facts so that the debate can move forward. Neither party wants to rely on falsehoods because they serve as only phantom support for a position. Does that make sense?


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RE: True Honesty

I don't really think of debate in terms of winners or losers either. Sometimes the discussion (not debate) gives me info. I didn't know before, so I adjust my thinking to account for that new information, but I don't see that as "losing" an argument or something--because I gained new knowledge and insight. How can gaining new knowledge and insight make one the loser?

Kate


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RE: True Honesty

This thread is "honestly" one of the strangest I have seen on HT with all these twists and turns and contrary declarations.

First this...

I'm not sure what I would do in a case like that to be
perfectly honest. I really don't.

Then the craziness of CW's post on gnats, flies and other assorted pests and her photo which were (yet again) deleted by the moderators.

then this...

My actions of honesty couldn't be questioned but if I found a large sum of money in the woods....on my front step :) , by a garbage dump, in an unmarked dirty sack, or thrown, I would have to sit down.....and I would be tempted.

That being said ....I know what I would do at the end of the day but just saying .....I think the adrenalin level
would be off the charts.

I'm dizzy from all this contradictory nonsense and spin.

Hearing you go on about how honest you are just takes it to a whole new level of ridiculous. As is this...I can say , I would leave my money in the care of any or all of you without a thought.

CW, you are all over the place and no place in a ridiculous thread titled "True Honesty".


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RE: True Honesty

Neither party wants to rely on falsehoods because they serve as only phantom support for a position.

Finally something you and I can agree on. Almost. To me, they serve no purpose at all other than to discredit the person using them.


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RE: True Honesty

In either case of perspective, there is no objective force on a message board anyway to award such judgements as points, winning/losing etc.


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RE: True Honesty

epi, I could not agree with you more. I justt think the kind of hypothetical with which this thread began is unanswerable. NO ONE knows what one would do. We all have individual anecdotes but there is simply no real answer because context will always govern actions.


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RE: True Honesty

Posted by epiphyticlvr 10 (My Page) on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 17:03
Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 17:16
Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 17:23

I don't know how any of you could have the audicity to
critique another's thread.
Just don't respond to my threads. Pass over them. Move on.

If you will notice some people had the brains to give their answer some thought .
My comments weren't all over the place.

My point was ....I'm human and under certain circumstances
I would be tempted. That was being honest.

Now go find someone else to play with.


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RE: True Honesty

elvis: This may be why so many marriages end in divorce; why so few have really close true friends. Kind of irritating to keep getting nagged till that admission is verbalized. Another hollow victory.

You're saying that if you said/did something untruthful/wrong with a close friend or spouse, you would refuse to acknowledge it? And consider it nagging if the person you did that to wanted you to admit you were wrong?

I'm hoping I misunderstood you.


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RE: True Honesty

I doubt cw caused any posts to be deleted. She didn't liken herself to rotten fruit.


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RE: True Honesty

Jill: "I'm hoping I misunderstood you."

In that case, I'm happy to report that you did!


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RE: True Honesty

In that case, I'm happy to report that you did!

OK, then what did you mean?

Is the responsibilty of the person that was wrong to admit they were wrong? Or is it assumed that they won't admit it and the other person (friend, spouse) should just shut up?


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RE: True Honesty

What? CW, I was not speaking to you to but to the issue you raised. That's all.


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RE: True Honesty

Now go find someone else to play with.

Responding to your posts, no matter how ridiculous they somethimes are, is not play. This isn't a playground. The only one who seems to think so is you based on your posts of late.

You don't get to dictate. People will make their own determination on how they characterize you based on your posts, including the deleted ones,just as they will make their own decisions on what threads/posts they choose to respond to. It's not your call when and what others respond to.

People don't convince others of their honesty by posting their picture and numerous proclamations declaring their righteousness especially if their statements are followed by a "but". Others will make up their own minds based on how honest you are on all your posts and threads not simply because you declare you are on this thread.

In any case Pidge was spot on. All the instances were hypothetical, not reality so we know what you tell us you would do and how honest you tell us you are...but...

I doubt cw caused any posts to be deleted. She didn't liken herself to rotten fruit.

I have no doubt having read them all this afternoon.

It isn't a coincidence that she is involved in most of the latest instances where posts and threads have been removed. She shows herself to be very adept at antagonizing and provoking others. She does it often and well.


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RE: True Honesty

"FT: "when you have been proven wrong...its simple...just acknowlege it."

To this I commented: "This may be why so many marriages end in divorce; why so few have really close true friends. Kind of irritating to keep getting nagged till that admission is verbalized. Another hollow victory. Is this really necessary in order for one to feel vindicated, or should I say validated?"

Which prompted you (Jill) to ask: "You're saying that if you said/did something untruthful/wrong with a close friend or spouse, you would refuse to acknowledge it? And consider it nagging if the person you did that to wanted you to admit you were wrong?" and "Is the responsibilty of the person that was wrong to admit they were wrong? Or is it assumed that they won't admit it and the other person (friend, spouse) should just shut up?"

I'll answer your questions in the order you asked them: 1) no; not if I believed that their information was correct; 2) yes; 3) not a grammatically correct sentence; 4) assumptions can be a problem, so I won't answer that one.

I hope this information is helpful to you.



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RE: True Honesty

3) not a grammatically correct sentence

Sorry, let me fix...

Is it the responsibilty of the person that was wrong to admit they were wrong?


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RE: True Honesty

Oh, I see. Well, we can turn that around and maybe the answer is there--or maybe another question. Is it necessary for you to hear them say that they were wrong in order for you to know that they were wrong? If so, then maybe you are not so sure they were wrong. If it's not necessary for you to hear them say they were wrong in order for you to know that they were wrong, what's the point in expecting them to way they were wrong?


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RE: True Honesty

ROTF.

Petty is as petty does.


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RE: True Honesty

"ROTF.
Petty is as petty does."

Do you mean the grammar comment?


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RE: True Honesty

Why is this such a hard question to answer?

You say something to your spouse. Your spouse explains why that is not factual. What do you do? Not respond? Deflect? Or do you say, Oh, yes I was wrong?

From the way this very short exchange has gone with you, and your past behavior here, I am fairly certain I know the answer. And I am very happy my spouse does not behave that way.

Why is it so hard to admit error? A behavior that on this board, at least, seems to be persistent among conservatives and not so much among liberals.


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RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 20:45

For me it is not so much as "admitting a wrong" it is the consistent habit of repeating information that has been proven by fact to be wrong.

If you are wrong and do not want to admit it .. fine .. but to repeat the same "misinformation" is baffling to me.

Or is it that some hold the belief that if they keep saying the same thing over and over it will make it true?

I do not have a problem with admitting I am wrong, it has happened before and I am sure it will happen again ... I am afterall just human.


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RE: True Honesty

Petty is as petty does.

What does that mean? You think it's petty to expect someone to admit when they are wrong?

Do you mean the grammar comment?

Doubtful, frank. That would mean she was criticizing elvis. I've never seen demi criticize any conservative here.


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RE: True Honesty

elvis wrote,

Is it necessary for you to hear them say that they were wrong in order for you to know that they were wrong?

Not at all. But it is necessary so that I know that they realize what the truth of the matter is so we both then can move ahead with the same understanding. If they evade, or refuse to acknowledge what I think is the truth, or change the subject, or engage in diversionary tactics, or disclaim responsibility, or deploy other dishonest behaviors, I consider the matter unsettled and their actions insincere. That sure would be a problem in a marriage or a friendship.


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RE: True Honesty

jillinnj asked elvis,

if you said/did something untruthful/wrong with a close friend or spouse, you would refuse to acknowledge it?

To which elvis replied,

no; not if I believed that their information was correct

So you only engage in that refusal to acknowledge your errors here on this forum?

This post was edited by Factotem on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 21:10


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RE: True Honesty

demi....do you ever think you might just be one of the
6 or 7 sane ones here? ROFLMO

When I get comments directed at me and to me from
the "self-proclaimed" judges telling me I provoke....my neighbor can hear me laughing.
I'm still laughing.

By the way....thank you for your sweet message.
You are a very nice person.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Re: CW deletions...A whole thread started by CW to get Facto banned for disagreeing with her(and being a liberal), and then this thread where she posted and put a large picture of herself. Presto, gone again.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Dunning-Kruger rears its head again. That or we are watching Internet Performance Art!


 o
RE: True Honesty

lily....what is wrong with you?
You seem to be obsessed with me. I am all you have on your mind lately.
Post after post about me from you .

People are only this interested in someone ...who is a threat to who they are in some way.

I could care less about having any conversation with you
ever in any way.
Now THAT is being honest.
Get over me.


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RE: True Honesty

Posted by citywoman2012 none (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 21:27

demi....do you ever think you might just be one of the
6 or 7 sane ones here? ROFLMO

When I get comments directed at me and to me from
the "self-proclaimed" judges telling me I provoke....my neighbor can hear me laughing.
I'm still laughing.

By the way....thank you for your sweet message.
You are a very nice person.

*

Citywoman, you have a point! ;)

You are a nice person, too.

People only affect people that allow them influence or power over them.

No one here has that power.

I hope that is true for you, too.

I think it is. ;)


 o
RE: True Honesty

Illusional superiority, eh? Applies, does it, to the 6 or 7 sane ones reputed to haunt HT?


 o
RE: True Honesty

Jill: "Why is it so hard to admit error? A behavior that on this board, at least, seems to be persistent among conservatives and not so much among liberals."

It's a darn good thing DH & I are like-minded. And both conservative.

------------
FT: "But it is necessary so that I know that they realize what the truth of the matter is so we both then can move ahead with the same understanding."

Maybe the refusal to do so is an indication that your subjects are not interested in having an understanding with you. Sorry about that. :(

--------------------

lily: That's twice you've tried to start a conversation about this. Get a grip.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Illusional superiority, eh? Applies, does it, to the 6 or 7 sane ones reputed to haunt HT?

Perfectly.

That, or making it up as a distraction.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Factotem will love to read this acclamation!


 o
RE: True Honesty

marshall I consider you one of the sane. Did you think
you weren't?


 o
RE: True Honesty

I could care less about having any conversation with you ever in any way.
Now THAT is being honest.
Get over me.

Aw, lily, CW cares! She could care less. Isn't that nice!

What is with the conservatives here thinking people are obsessed with them? Or stalking them. All because one replies to their posts. It is so strange. There must be a name for this syndrome.

WxDano - great link! It does explain a lot.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Getting back on topic...

"In the woods.....miles from anywhere....$299,999.00?
In an old dirty sack? Help me out here."

Well if I were in the Pacific northwest, it could be the long lost money from D. B. Cooper! So I would surely turn it in, I'd be famous!

Otherwise, I'd keep it. ;)


 o
RE: True Honesty

It's a darn good thing DH & I are like-minded. And both conservative.

That's nice. But, surprise, it doesn't answer the question. If you are wrong and your DH points out you're wrong, do you refuse to admit it? Or do you admit it so the conversation can move forward?


 o
RE: True Honesty

@WxDano -

Good call on Dunning-Kruger.


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RE: True Honesty

Posted by citywoman2012 none (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 21:56

marshall I consider you one of the sane. Did you think
you weren't?

===============================================

BUT RpR delegated me to the liberal bench where I languish chastened at having also be thrown out of the pro-Ron Paul camp by the young scoundrel.


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RE: True Honesty

Marshall, don't you know by now that you just can't win?

;)


 o
RE: True Honesty

elvis wrote,

------------
FT: "But it is necessary so that I know that they realize what the truth of the matter is so we both then can move ahead with the same understanding."

Maybe the refusal to do so is an indication that your subjects are not interested in having an understanding with you. Sorry about that. :(

Thank you for finally answering the question I have been asking about why many conservatives such as you behave the way they do when engaged in issue-oriented discussions. Your refusal to acknowledge your falsehoods and other misstatements is rooted in the fact that you are not actually interested in having a shared understanding on simple factual matters with people who hold positions different from yours.

I appreciate that you are at last admitting that you do not honestly participate in discussions. That does indeed explain your behavior, and it gives insight into how conservatives think. Your admission that you are not interested in establishing the truth of putative facts you offer in support of your positions explains a great deal about the difficulty conservatives have when participating in a discussion with sincere people.

Thanks.


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RE: True Honesty

There ya go Marshall, a recommendation regarding your mental health comes from a highly regarded, intellectually superior fan.

May you always reflect upon those special accolades with fondness.

Between you and me, I thought that of you without needing that health/ character assurance.

Most here do.

You have been here a long time and took great care to develop a measure of respect from most , you have earned the high regard you enjoy from most.

Not all of us can claim that. A few yes, only a very few.

We might want it, but might not have earned it. You have, imo.

The few who don't think highly of you, perhaps WxDano's definition applies to them also.


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RE: True Honesty

Jill: "That's nice. But, surprise, it doesn't answer the question. If you are wrong and your DH points out you're wrong, do you refuse to admit it? Or do you admit it so the conversation can move forward?"

The conversation is always moving forward, Jill. Like a creek in the woods, babbling along.

Jill, we don't take that sort of thing seriously. We laugh a lot. Life's too short to sweat the small stuff, and fortunately we've never been wrong about anything we consider important. We're a team; we live together; I can't imagine living in an adversarial relationship.


 o
RE: True Honesty

OK, you don't take truth seriously. Truth is the small stuff and not important. That does explain it.

And FYI - having conversations with your spouse about topics that you don't agree on 100% does not mean they have an adversarial relationship. It can be very interesting and stimulating to have an honest debate with someone on all sorts of topics, even when the 2 parties don't start out agreeing 100%.


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RE: True Honesty

elvis wrote,

Jill: "That's nice. But, surprise, it doesn't answer the question. If you are wrong and your DH points out you're wrong, do you refuse to admit it? Or do you admit it so the conversation can move forward?"

The conversation is always moving forward, Jill. Like a creek in the woods, babbling along.

Jill, we don't take that sort of thing seriously. We laugh a lot. Life's too short to sweat the small stuff, and fortunately we've never been wrong about anything we consider important. We're a team; we live together; I can't imagine living in an adversarial relationship.

That's great. It's also a non-answer.

How can you reach an agreement on an issue if you don't start with a shared understanding of the truth?


 o
RE: True Honesty

I lit a match~ Don't go in the woods a bear must of got some bad Gorgonzola and stunk up the creek!


 o
RE: True Honesty

Mylab, thank you for the kind sentiments, generated I suspect because I apply my grouchiness across the board, being equally fair and unfair, but with as much of my weird humor as I can hang onto my posts.

So many words, so much heat, so much hostility are brought to this board. I see myself as the circus or rodeo clown here but with a seriousness born of experience and tolerance.


 o
RE: True Honesty

"experience and tolerance."

Yup. That's the ticket.


 o
RE: True Honesty

What a bizarre thread...


 o
RE: True Honesty

Yes I agree I didn't want to be left out!


 o
RE: True Honesty

We haven't even gotten to "False Honesty" yet. Who wants to go first?


 o
RE: True Honesty

I started the thread and sure enough....the wackadoodles
went nuts . I lost track of the question waaaaaaaaaay
back.
The ugly came out and it wasn't pretty.
By the same bunch as usual.

I started the thread and I even had one point out to me all she saw wrong in the deliverance.....how confused she
was (which doesn't take much)by my answers blah blah blah.
Now some are trying to tell me how to post....what to say
or not to say. Thats how I took the message.

Now I know one of the reasons I get so much attention from
"the few". I talk back . Must not talk back to the liberal judges when you are on trial here. I gotta remember that tidbit and keep ignoring it.

I am finished with this thread....this subject and have had my laughs for the day.
Good night....Mrs.Calabash where ever you are :)


 o
RE: True Honesty

What a bizarre thread...

I said the same thing earlier today and it hasn't improved since. On the contrary.

No doubt there will be more.


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RE: True Honesty

Elvis, though I do believe you fully understand why you are being questioned and why this point is being pressed, I will take this one and only stab at the point behind it all.

Democrats here are aware of all the direct and implied criticism directed at the President, his character, his birth as a fully realized American, at the stand all conservatives took against him from the minute Clinton acknowledged him to be the primary winner all those years ago. The hysterical babbling about his fearful and dangerous connections with terrorists began, moved to his being a Muslim (other than) not born in the U.S. ( other than) not a Christian ( other than) being supportive of the hate his pastor of his CHRISTIAN place of worship ( other than) that nobody who hated him was racist ( how dare you) a Kenya( other than) show me your birth certificate and when he did show me your college transcripts ( prove you were Magnum cum Laude and really a constitutional Professor at Harvard?( how did HE manage that) just wait America will wake up and we will win (and you will lose) by a landslide, only a community organizer(dirty words, dirty job, dirty man, not a REAL senator?)

And from his first day in office in his first term it is declared that the congressional reps will ( traitorously) do everything within their power to prevent anything at all that this new President will ever try to do to advance this country, with not a whimper heard from conservatives about the very unamerican and shockingly unpatriotic behavior of such a declarations made from elected officials.

About this black skinned man who was declared to lie about every single thing he ever said about himself,and was vetted over by the clintons, the GOP and certainly every corporation that a vested interest in Obama's loss of the election.

But yet intellectually superiors continued to insist that at the very least, it was valid to question this President's birthplace and citizenship ( and college transcripts and health records etc.etc.)

All the same people were OUT-RAGED (my own hyphen usage for emphases) at the merest hint that this President was hindered from the first day by the financial free fall which went undeterred by the Bush that all these OUT-RAGED conservatives voted for but did not want to hear about ( that was then, this is now!)

And that all was in only the first few months of his first term.

We heard this repeated angrily every singly day, in some form, in mounting anger and hysteria with grave but amused warnings about the smoking ruin this man would leave at the end of his first term for their ( and your guy, Elvis?) to clean up.

For four years this mess was spewed in this forum at some point about some point every day without protest by forum conservatives , but for perhaps a handful of times.

But he didn't leave the country in ruins and he dud not work with terrorists to take this country down and despite the stubborn stand by a shameful percentage, his citizenship and birthplace remains stubbornly questioned by shameful Americans, four years later.

He had the audacity to shove some real steps forward down our throats Elvis. Had he lost the election, he would have had the nerve to leave it better than he found it, by far, despite CW 's claims that the food kitchen lines are longer than EVER! And you know what THAT means!

And that sort of continuing sore loser behavior is what is wrong with this forum and we wont move forward with thoughtful discussions until that sort of sore loser nonsense stops.

Obama beat the guy you defended, any guy you would have defended, Elvis.

There was not a pause for breath before the bitter, angry posts began again from conservatives. Not a pause.

I understood, its hard to lose. Nobody likes it.

However, the time for that has now passed and yet there has been no serious discussion from conservatives about WHY they failed and what it is they must do in the way of reform to make the party competitive and worthy of having the power they will, someday, presumably have concerning all of us.

I can tell you that Im not looking for a "you were right and I was wrong" from any conservatives in here. It is not necessary.

However, I am looking for some integrity and thoughtful discussion about what conservatives need from their party, what reforms are needed, what change needs to take place and maybe just a little less sore loser behavior which has so lavishly been so indulged in and finally a little honor and integrity regarding the tone in here.

We in hot topics did not beat you conservatives in hot topics in a game of Presidential Politics.

This place does not have a chance of improving unless you do. Unless a few of you are actually more comfortable with the way things are in this forum, (which frankly, wouldn't surprise me because its easier to keep it that way than to discuss change), it is really up to conservatives to change the tone in here and absolutely up to liberals to be gracious enough to be grateful for it and respond in kind.

You don't have to admit one thing as far as Im concerned. Just quit with the horrible poor, sore loser behavior. It has reduced the value of this forum to being a place where we gather to backbite each other- not all- we know who "we" are - and we have become experts at it. We need to stop and make this place a place where we discuss issues, not rip each other apart because not a one of us ends up looking like anything but American trash playing on the internet.

Not all of us. We know who we are. We all know who "we" are, no denying it.


This country isn't being "taken back" or will be "taken back" by anyone because it belongs to everyone.

I think that point is forgotten, or worse, deliberately discarded as not really true.


 o
RE: True Honesty

lol, Jill....


 o
RE: True Honesty

And well said, my lab ( just finished reading it.) I could not add more. You said it all and very well.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Thanks, Jill. It's very hard to address any issue on this forum without being accused of a personal assault. Imagine if we all walked around all day with this attitude.

Too much time spent on personal criticism of others and endless self-pity. Not to mention the self-righteousness.

BTW, I know what Elvis means and it's probably how most of us engage in our marriages, friendships, and other relationships.


 o
RE: True Honesty

mylab, is this true honesty? From the blame Bush for everything crowd, now going into year five? Or let's blame the republican congress for everything the second two years of Obama's term, but nothing about the democrats that held both houses the last two years of Bush's term? Is that the true honesty you are talking about?


 o
RE: True Honesty

I didn't read any of the posts before answering... I'll go back when I am done, as I don't want it to affect what I'd say:

I'd turn it in. Without hesitation. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't turn it in. It's just like stealing. It's not mine. I couldn't sleep with myself if I didn't turn it in.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Good grief, more incredulous postings that brought an early morning chuckle to my day.

The reason this forum has recently become so acrimonious (in my opinion) is that the conservatives won't say what a very few handful of more liberal posters want then to say. That, and the fact that there are those with agendas to tear down other posters rather than discuss hot topics.

What about those personal insults about our intelligence, our character and false accusations of our intent when the conservatives don't post as our some of our fellow posters tell us we should?

Well, we're just supposed to ignore those and try harder to please them.

Read some of the unsolicited hateful and insulting things said about and to individual posters on this thread and you will determine why there aren't as many attempts with those posters at reasonable discourse.

Read the taunts and insults, and ask yourself if you would bother even trying anymore with the sort of people that said those things about and to you.

I don't expect those to "get it."
If they did, they wouldn't exhibit that behavior to begin with.

I will say, even very small children understand that you get more with honey than vinegar. That is usually what reasonable people do, unless one is the sort of person that is edified by throwing vinegar.

Methinks there are all sorts of motivations for diverting from the topic at hand to making specific insults to individual posters and none of them have to do with the person being insulted--it has to do with the person posting.

Some of us do not have the time nor the inclination to bother ourselves with these type of people. Quite simply, some of us have removed toxicity from our lives as much as possible.

I do wish more peaceful souls, more tolerance, and healing for whatever causes some to become the kind of person that makes them so bent on being confrontational, petty and insulting.

That's true honesty.

*

Of course I would turn over money.

In the first grade, we were lined up on the steps in the high school building waiting to go into the lunchroom, and I found a nickel on the rubber covered steps. I knew it wasn't mine, so I asked the boy standing behind me if it was his. Now, I knew it wasn't his because he was behind me and I picked it up on the step in front of me. This was a kid that never had money. He looked at me and said, "Yea, that's my nickel." I gave it to him.

If anyone deserved that nickel, it was him.

He probably bought something at the candy machine for the first time that day after lunch. (Yes, candy was still a nickel at that time).

But something disturbed me that has stayed with me my life--his quickness to lie, and my stupidity for not keeping the nickel when I knew that there was no way to determine whose nickel it was. I just knew it was wrong because it wasn't mine.

I think character is innate to a degree--some just honor it more, and some alter it due to circumstances in their life and outside influences.

Peace Out and Honey and to you all!

Have a blessed day.


 o
RE: True Honesty

demifloyd wrote,

The reason this forum has recently become so acrimonious (in my opinion) is that the conservatives won't say what a very few handful of more liberal posters want the[m] to say.

That is true, is a specific way. The conservatives, you included, won't agree with liberals on the objective truth of false statements the conservatives have made.

For example, you issued the challenge to produce a misstatement of yours that you had not corrected or retracted. I immediately provided you with a clear example, and I asked that you take personal responsibility for both your misstatement and your challenge and say that you were wrong and that you retracted your falsehood. You refused to do so. So, there's an example of what you are describing: A conservative (you) not saying what a liberal (a progressive, in my case) wants you to say.

As Elvis has recently confessed, conservatives will not admit errors on factual matters because they are not interested in establishing a shared understanding of facts so that discussions can move forward; that is, they do not really participate in these debates sincerely, and therefore they have no interest in forming opinions, conclusions, or positions based on truth. That was a very important admission for Elvis to make.

What about those personal insults about our intelligence, our character and false accusations of our intent....Read some of the unsolicited hateful and insulting things said about and to individual posters....Read the taunts and insults....Methinks there are all sorts of motivations for diverting from the topic at hand to making specific insults to individual posters and none of them have to do with the person being insulted--it has to do with the person posting....

Yet, you have called people full blown nuts, sick, mentally ill, slow learners, called their posts stupid and compared them to idiots, told them they lose, instructed them to get a life, repeatedly called them liars (and refused to apologize when you discovered they were right), and so on.

So your objections, again, have a very hollow ring.


 o
RE: True Honesty

So your objections, again, have a very hollow ring.

Words - as used by the usual suspects on this board - are not meant to convey ideas or information.

In this particular case, made-up stuff is used for...um...to...well, who knows. Maybe to make us LOLz.


 o
RE: True Honesty

It's too bad the scavengers in the following video weren't honest, caring citizens.

Here is a link that might be useful: Man loses year's worth of wages after dropping cash in street


 o
RE: True Honesty

C.S. Lewis said integrity means doing the right thing when no one is watching. Seems to me that doing the right thing requires one to try to return whatever it is you found to the proper owner if at all possible. Check Craigslist and you will see that people routinely list found wallets, credit cards, jewelry, money, and any number of valuable items on Craigslist, seeking the rightful owner.


 o
RE: True Honesty

I don't expect those to "get it."
If they did, they wouldn't exhibit that behavior to begin with

I suggest you take a look in the mirror.

You do everything you accuse liberals of doing. Yet when you do it it's all good. Or you're justified in doing it. When others do it, you go a long rant about how wonderful you are and how awful the liberals are. They're picking on me. Waaaahhhh!

The only way conversations can move forward is to be able to have an honest conversation. That means talking about facts and admitting when one is wrong. With very few exceptions, conservatives on this board refuse to admit they were wrong about a fact essential to the conversation. Therefore, there's nothing more to discuss.

With very few exceptions, when conservatives are shown to be wrong, they either exit the conversation or throw out a one line sarcastic comment that does nothing to further the conversation.

It has nothing to do with agreeing on issues or thinking the same way. It has everything to do with honesty and integrity. You have not shown either on this forum. In fact, your posts have been the height of hypocrisy. Therefore, conversations cannot move forward. If you want to see improvement, do something to improve it.


 o
RE: True Honesty

�Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 12:40

If you want to see improvement, do something to improve it.

.................................................................

Wish we could jill but only the moderators can ban you...sigh.


 o
RE: True Honesty

I agree with Nik!
We have a lost & found at work & everything from engagement rings, jewelry & wallets with cash still in them are as common as mnnn lets see now everyday!
We will not take tips either!


 o
RE: True Honesty

Wish we could jill but only the moderators can ban you...sigh.

Thanks for proving my point, msrk, from above:

With very few exceptions, when conservatives are shown to be wrong, they either exit the conversation or throw out a one line sarcastic comment that does nothing to further the conversation.

And I suggest you read the rules of the forum. As I've done nothing to break them, there's no reason to ban me. Is it that reading comprehension problem again?


 o
RE: True Honesty

Is it that reading comprehension problem again?

You are presuming an honest motive in delivering words.

Remember: for some, words are not for transmitting ideas or information. Rather, they are weapons.


 o
RE: True Honesty

The pen is often mightier than the sword... it all depends on how practiced one is...


 o
RE: True Honesty

You are presuming an honest motive in delivering words.

An excellent point.

Honesty. It does keep coming up, doesn't it?

Sorely lacking by some. And the reason we can't get anywhere here. It's really too bad.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 14:26

"And I suggest you read the rules of the forum. As I've done nothing to break them, there's no reason to ban me. Is it that reading comprehension problem again?"

*

Oh, really?

Just recently, this one today, directed to me for no apparent reason--I certainly haven't been addressing you for quite a while, but you prove over and over that you just want my attention so badly by taunting and insulting me after I make posts, it's just more proof that you can't quit me, jill.

:)

Here's proof, and here's what you said just today:


Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 12:40

"It has everything to do with honesty and integrity. You have not shown either on this forum."

*

Here's a jewel you posted for mrskjun, after she responded to a post made by esh. I am showing this post of yours of that since that's the person you were addressing in this particular post when you've "done nothing to break them" (the rules of the forum)--according to you.

You interjected an insult to mrskjun, who was responding to esh. That personal insult is the only contribution you made in that post and you are the type of poster to which I was referring earlier. In fact, you do it so much that that is all I associate you with--nothing but insults to me, mrskjun, and other conservative posters.


Posted by esh_ga z7 GA (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 17:59
Right, it is not on the page TODAY. Did you see me say "I just checked" as in right that minute.

Get a tune up on your reading comprehension.
________________________________________

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 18:04
okey dokey...got it
________________________________________

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 21:56
Get a tune up on your reading comprehension
"A tune up implies it used to work."

*

Charming. You think that is not a personal insult?

Now, I've wasted enough time with this nonsense.

I'll return to responding to posters that are worthy of my time and consideration.



 o
RE: True Honesty

Now, I've wasted enough time with this nonsense.

I'll return to responding to posters that are worthy of my time and consideration.

You mean the ones that agree with you?

There are some doozies that you've posted, displayed above by facto. Would you like me to repeat them? I will remind you that you called me mentally ill. But of course you must have been justified because you are the perfect southern lady, right?

Why don't you address the issue? The issue that you're not honest. The issue that your posts are hypocriticial. The issue that once you're proven wrong, you exit the conversation or throw out a one line sarcastic comment?

You claim you would like to be able to have conversations here but you do nothing to actually do that. Your words are empty. Again.

One more time -- anyone here can respond to any post here. Open and public forum. It certainly doesn't mean someone cannot get over you (whatever that means! A little narcisstic,perhaps?). If you don't want people responding to your posts don't post . And, by they way, you always respond to posts not specifially addressed to you. But, again, it's ok when you do it. More do as I say, not as I do behavior from you.


 o
RE: True Honesty

"You love me, you really love me!"

Creepy.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Gets very pewee's playhouse in here! I stopped beingconsiderate I about my 3rd week!


 o
RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 15:17

>The pen is often mightier than the sword... it all depends on how practiced one is<

It's time for a couple here to put away that old Bik that doesn't retract properly.

This post was edited by bboy on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 15:20


 o
RE: True Honesty

"You love me, you really love me!"

Creepy.

Yes, it is a little creepy that you would type that.

But, I guess when you have no answer for the issues brought up, it's all you got left.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Yea, Labrea, it took me a lot longer to realize that there were so many drawn to flame like moths to the flame!

Fortunately, I have no one in my life like this and it's so easy to SOB on this forum.

It's all good--there are life lessons in everything.


 o
RE: True Honesty

@demifloyd:

Why don't you tell us about your post that was recently removed by the administrator because you hurled a personal insult?

I hear confession is good for the soul.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Oh I missed it do tell do tell!


 o
RE: True Honesty

labrea wrote,

Oh I missed it do tell do tell!

Well, as demifloyd has declared that she never has trouble owning her words, even, apparently, when they are false, perhaps she will explain.

But I doubt it. She has repeatedly demonstrated that she will hide from her own statements rather than take personal responsibility for them.


 o
RE: True Honesty

But I doubt it. She has repeatedly demonstrated that she will hide from her own statements rather than take personal responsibility for them.

Nuh-uh!


 o
RE: True Honesty

Anybody see the Saturday Night Live skit about the guy who kept saying "glice"? This is what I'm seeing wth the constant bullying . It's very disheartening to say the least.

Demi, IMO you are a good person and FT is out of line. Pay her no mind; I don't plan to.


 o
RE: True Honesty

At least she will always have her cheerleader.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Out of line?

Oh, right, I forgot, elvis admits the truth is not important. And it's just annoying nagging, and now apparently also bullying, if you ask someone to admit they are wrong so the conversation can continue on the basis of truth.

So, asking for the truth is now out of line according to some.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Within reason, that's true. I'd do the same if the object of abuse was you, Frank.


 o
RE: True Honesty

Labrea, do tell, I was not aware that any of my posts have been removed.

I haven't received any notices from admin.

So, it couldn't have been too bad!

Sometime admin removes posts that aren't objectionable, but are part of a thread that when it strays becomes objectionable, so all posts regarding that "stray" are removed.

What is creepy is that I didn't know it, have no idea what it would be if it is true, and couldn't care less--but others do.

It is pathetic that someone has, and actually spends THAT much time to keep track of these things, and that someone cares so much about what I post, what I don't post and what happens to my posts.

When posters assign or speculate about motives to Republicans or Conservatives, and when conservatives assign motives to Democrats or Liberals (and I almost always am very careful to not make blanket statements and include all in a group), that is one thing. That is usually part of our divisive politics and viewpoints, and often part of the topic.

It is quite clear that some posters fail to understand that personally insulting the character of a specific poster by name, or right after their post in a specific manner in which there is no doubt as to who the insult is direct to, is an entirely different thing that what I described in the previous paragraph.

Extrapolating insults from general observations that are not directed at any particular poster and then and crying "you do it too" and wrongly assuming it is meant for a particular poster is truly disingenuous.

It is obvious, however, that that tiresome tactic serves a purpose for those consumed with all things Demi, Elvis, and mrskjun.

It's nothing I have time for or can be bothered with.
I'm bored silly with this nonsense and I can only surmise that the posters that I used to enjoy reading and occasionally discussing issues with--Kingturtle, Hamiltongardner, Nancy, Silversword, Marshall, Elvis, Bill, mrskjun, Elvis, Nic, and many others--are equally unimpressed with disrupting tactics.

There are plenty of other options and until the focus returns to what it was a year or so ago, (admittedly with a few spars now and then, but tolerable and with a degree of respect) there is no need to do much other than pop in here and read a thread or two now and then and post if I'm so inclined--or not.

Frank, I don't need cheerleaders, but I'll take Elvis on my side any day of the week!~

Peace.


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RE: True Honesty

elvis wrote,

Anybody see the Saturday Night Live skit about the guy who kept saying "glice"? This is what I'm seeing wth the constant bullying . It's very disheartening to say the least.
Demi, IMO you are a good person and FT is out of line. Pay her no mind; I don't plan to.

When does that plan go into effect?

It's interesting that you console demifloyd by telling her she is a good person, rather than trying to help her take personal responsibility for her false accusation against littleonefb. Do you consider that morally upstanding behavior?

The "bullying" gambit is completely worn out, especially since it backfired so spectacularly on citywoman2012. It may feel like bullying when one is compelled to come face-to-face with one's own dishonesty and hypocrisy, but you are misidentifying the emotion. You are, instead, experiencing unpleasant truth exposure.


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RE: True Honesty

wow now demi is making assumptions about a person who no longer posts here. and plenty who can speak for themselves if they choose to.
"I'm bored silly with this nonsense and I can only surmise that the posters that I used to enjoy reading and occasionally discussing issues with--Kingturtle, Hamiltongardner, Nancy, Silversword, Marshall, Elvis, Bill, mrskjun, Elvis, Nic, anany others--are equally unimpressed with disrupting tactics"


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RE: True Honesty

Posted by youngquinn VIC Aust (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 23:01

wow now demi is making assumptions about a person who no longer posts here. and plenty who can speak for themselves if they choose to.
"I'm bored silly with this nonsense and I can only surmise that the posters that I used to enjoy reading and occasionally discussing issues with--Kingturtle, Hamiltongardner, Nancy, Silversword, Marshall, Elvis, Bill, mrskjun, Elvis, Nic, anany others--are equally unimpressed with disrupting tactics"

*

There is no obvious purpose to that post other than to taunt me and promote discord.

You know, I could chastise you for misquoting me in that post of yours, which you did.

But I am not the sort of person that is going to make a petty post trying to start a fight for no reason like you just did.

So go scare up a fight with someone else, dear.

Nothing you have ever said on this forum has interested me, and certainly nothing you are doing now does.


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RE: True Honesty

YQ: "wow now demi is making assumptions about a person who no longer posts here. and plenty who can speak for themselves if they choose to."

No offense, YQ, but I can verify that I am unimpressed. The others may have gone to bed, which is where I am heading shortly as well.


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RE: True Honesty

demifloyd wrote,

Labrea, do tell, I was not aware that any of my posts have been removed.

I haven't received any notices from admin.

So, it couldn't have been too bad!

Sometime admin removes posts that aren't objectionable, but are part of a thread that when it strays becomes objectionable, so all posts regarding that "stray" are removed.

Only your post was removed.

In your post, you said to littleonefb,

"you're a liar"

That personal insult is a direct violation of the forum rules. How do you feel about people who hurl personal insults?

When will you get around to apologizing for your false accusation?

What is creepy is that I didn't know it, have no idea what it would be if it is true, and couldn't care less

What's really creepy is that you claim you "couldn't care less" -- and then you pound out one of the longest posts in the thread about it. Creepy.

It is quite clear that some posters fail to understand that personally insulting the character of a specific poster by name, or right after their post in a specific manner in which there is no doubt as to who the insult is direct to, is an entirely different thing that what I described in the previous paragraph.

Right, as when you insult someone so directly the adminstrator pulls your post.

Extrapolating insults from general observations that are not directed at any particular poster and then and crying "you do it too" and wrongly assuming it is meant for a particular poster is truly disingenuous.

Making "general observations" -- that is, insulting whole groups -- then saying, "oh, I didn't mean you in particular" is profoundly cowardly. Don't you agree? Shouldn't posters avoid that sort of broad-brush insult if they're not going to take personal responsibility for standing up for their words by identifying specific individuals who are covered by their claims?

It's nothing I have time for or can be bothered with.

Of course it is, as you yet again take the time and bother to write about it at length.

There are plenty of other options and until the focus returns to what it was a year or so ago, (admittedly with a few spars now and then, but tolerable and with a degree of respect) there is no need to do much other than pop in here and read a thread or two now and then and post if I'm so inclined--or not.

Is that a threat or a gift?


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RE: True Honesty

Oh heavens Bill finds me boring and nothing I have ever written has interested demi.

sorry demi dear, but I posted what I did with no other motive than to correct you. You cant speak for kingturtle...and the others (apart from elvis) will speak for themselves.

feel totally free to scroll on by as I can assure you I am not chastened by your " reprimand."

you are only one poster here...you do not make the rulles and it is not the purpose of this forum to "interest" you.
feel free to do as you say and reduce your participation.


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RE: True Honesty

feel free to do as you say and reduce your participation.

How will some get attention if they don't feign injustice, outrage, and victimhood?


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RE: True Honesty

You simply are wrong, youngquinn.

I said that I could only surmise--I DID NOT speak for anyone.

As to Kingturtle, it is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that I was referring to poster that I enjoyed reading along with naming others, and finished the sentence without thinking to exclude him.

SO WHAT?

Edited to add, how do YOU KNOW that Kingturtle is not reading this forum and has opinions, anyway?

Again, SO WHAT?

This post was edited by demifloyd on Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 0:33


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RE: True Honesty

So, the thread seems kinda long.

Did you guys ever figure out whether or not you would turn in the cash? Coles notes, please.


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RE: True Honesty

Edited to moved to the right topic.

This post was edited by marquest on Tue, Feb 12, 13 at 0:53


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RE: True Honesty

It is ironic that on a thread about "true honesty" there are quite a number of falsehoods scattered about.


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RE: True Honesty

Worst. Colesnotes. Ever.


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RE: True Honesty

are you splitting split hairs with me demi?...to surmise is to make an assumption without evidence.

why would you make assumptions about people who can speak for themselves if they chose to?

and please be specific when you say"As to Kingturtle, it is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that I was referring to poster that I enjoyed reading along with naming others, and finished the sentence without thinking to exclude him. "

do you mean me? are you telling me that I do not have a modicum of sense? if not me then please tell us to whom you were referring /


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RE: True Honesty

Demi, you made what imo is a very noteworthy and thoughtful point - one that I've been pondering myself since I actually did get my first well earned reprimand from the administration - and am very ashamed of that fact.
There is a select group of us that spend a great deal of time picking and picking at others in this forum, dominating too many threads with our back and forths with each other.
I have been thinking about how all that back and forth stuff must ruin this forum for a lot who dont actually partake of the picking in the personal one on one way which a group of us tends to do, sometimes sucking up an entire thread a day. It has to ruin it for others, especially those who don't allow themselves to get involved in such a mess.

What I have been wondering is: if just four or five of us learned to practice the art of scrolling on by and not ever partaking at all in the one on one back and forth acrimony, how it could perhaps begin to help change the dynamics of the tone that gets set in hot topics. Plenty in here manage to get their point across, no doubt about that, but without the endless back and forth acrimony having nothing really to do with the topic for discussion.
-I want to really try to SOB as much as possible, I have no problem doing just that when necessary in my personal interactions during the course of my day and I would bet that you nor most in here do. We should be able to manage ourselves in this forum also.

It doesn't mean any of us who get into the endless back and forth will ever necessarily like the others much - that ship has likely sailed - but it could mean we are big enough to hand the threads back to those who detest the picking and that would really elevate this forum discussions back to those somewhat discussion days I think we both remember. But it will take effort - Im willing and am going to give it my best effort, I hope four others will be too.


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RE: True Honesty

Mylab, quite frankly, kindergarten behavior has attracted kindergartners.

As I have stated, I don't dance when people shoot at my feet, particularly those whose apparently primary mission is to do so and to harass.

Life is too precious. Some people haven't learned that and intentionally squander their time with negativity and hate.

I hope that those of us that have had experiences that have taught us that life is precious and that wasting time with negativity and hate is hurting not only others, but ourselves, would be more mindful of that and when we tend toward behavior that is not the best we have to give to another human being, that we catch ourselves.

We all fall short in many ways of being perfect human beings, but I can tell you here that it never has, and will never be, my objective to harass or hurl insults at poster for giving their opinion about a topic on a hot topics board.

I do not hate anyone or anything.
At the least, I'm neutral and just uninterested in interacting with negative people with nefarious intent. It's always obvious, and I do not like to say it, but the back and forths from times past when some of us have gotten into picking apart words (and let's not kid ourselves, that is important to a degree, but only for the sake of clarity and understanding, not for the sake of "gotcha") I think that has become the focus of some here.

It serves no purpose in my life, and actually, never did, so I do tend to scroll on by these little taunts. I ask myself quite frequently about opportunities every day--"is this how I want to spend these precious minutes?" and it then becomes easy to let the unimportant fall to the side.

You can see the intensity increase, wanting attention by more and more taunts.

It's actually sad, and those of us that have interacted with one another here in more positive ways--and I will never forget how kind you were to me in some posts one night when I was grieving especially hard--owe it to ourselves, if not one another, to be better than we have been on occasion.

That won't affect those whose mission it is to cause discord and those with personal issues that feel a need to constantly taunt and look for ways to put others down for any reason at all, and if there is not one, they'll invent one.

You and I cannot do anything about those people.

But you and I can do something about the way we react and the way WE treat people. And so can those who have not always done that.

I think for me, and the reason I don't spend the time here that I used to is (another reason is, I'm finally coming out of a tough period to get on with my life and "get busy living") that I have always told my children--because I have observed in life--be careful of the company you keep, because you tend to become like them.

There are some interesting and smart people to discuss things with and actually, spar a little with words and snark about hot topics and people in the news. I believe that interaction can keep our brains sharp, and although we don't always agree, I do appreciate wit and razor wit.

Your salient point is this, " Plenty in here manage to get their point across, no doubt about that, but without the endless back and forth acrimony having nothing really to do with the topic for discussion."


 o
No good deed goes unpunished

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 15, 13 at 18:29

It's enough to make anyone keep the money.

What a louse.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: True Honesty

I've been practicing SOB for the most part (except when deep boredom and procrastination cause me to lapse). I've taken to SOB many posts of normally thoughtful posters where their contributions are excessively wordy, incoherent, and/or seemingly worthless. Sure has taken off the strain of keeping up.

OTOH at a later time my interest might be piqued enough to back up to read a post I skipped over.


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RE: True Honesty

Good post, initially. I've just been having this conversation with friends after one lost a wallet last week - never to be seen again, I fear. The general consensus is that an ID with cash identifies the cash as belonging to that person. Hence, no moral question at all, it gets returned.

Cash, blowing in the wind in the middle of nowhere... cash in a paper sack in the dumpster, etc. are what seem to confuse people. If someone abandons something, even unintentionally, is it still theirs?

I had an experience similar to finding a nickle (as someone said above) except it was a $5 bill. I know it wasn't his, but I also knew it wasn't mine.

My basic morals say it doesn't matter to whom it belongs, I know it doen't belong to me.

BUT.... I have had experiences in which I've walked out of a store and noticed they didn't charge me, and I've just kept walking. Usually because the check - out process was agonizing and I considered it a tax on ineptness. Usually I'll walk back in, and if I notice it I'll point it out immediately. I've received "extra" pieces before and when calling, told to keep them because the price of return/processing is more than the item.

It took me a long time to realize in life no one is going to throw you a ticker tape parade if you pick up a piece of rubbish off the ground. No one will notice, very few will care. I've had experiences of helping people, returning things, and had them completely blow me off... and I've had friends tell me they've been accused of stealing the items they were returning.

These things are not done for reward, or for any other reason than knowing what is right and what is wrong and then acting ones conscience.

I can't understand not returning the money clip (that someone's father lost at a ball game), or the person who stole my camera from my bedroom when I had a larger get-together than usual 15 or so years ago and some "friends of friends" were in my house. Those are the truly egregious thefts.


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RE: True Honesty

Silver!

What a breath of fresh air - welcome back! :)


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RE: True Honesty

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 17:24

Hey Marshall, , it's been a long road hasn't it ;)
Hey KT, if you're Lurking ---- I bet you're Smiling :)


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