Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Illegal immigration -- another slant

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 14, 12 at 20:31

Fred Reed just posted another commentary, this one apparently written while sober, and this one very thoughtful amd realistic about the nature of the illegal immigrant and purposes behind such illegal activity.

Fred ends with this:

"Pablo may or may not be a model uncitizen, may drink too much, may use drugs,or go into crime. Or he may not. He is very likely to send money, substantial amounts of it, back to Tegucigalpa. In Jalisco, where I live in Mexico, remittances from migrants are a crucial part of the economy. Pablo also is not unlikely to begin planning to bring his family to the US.

Family values. Putting his life on the line for his children. The work ethic. All that.

Is massive immigration good for the US? I doubt it. Are all the illegals wonderful people? No. In the long run will there be a happy ending? I don't know; to date there hasn't been.

Yet men and women who will claw and save for a coyote, and ride that godawful train, at dead serious risk of being raped, robbed, tortured and beaten into medical curiousities left beside the tracks, who will cross into a hostile country whose language they do not know, and live in constant fear of being caught, all to feed their families and just maybe give them a better life in a better place�I think they deserve other than utter contempt."

Here is a link that might be useful: The Illegals: Another Angle


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 14, 12 at 20:47

This is another "throw them raw meat" issue as far as I am concerned. Stir up the citizenry to light their torches and grab their pitchforks, while behind the scenes abetting and encouraging the in-sourcing of cheap labor for their "buds".

SMH


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Why bother.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Why bother?

Because I haven't moved anywhere and this is my country, and yet I need to speak Spanish to get numerous jobs in my city that, incidentally, used to pay more. This isn't like any other immigration wave where the ol' country w as clear across the ocean.

My future Filipino son-in-law's family came here (with quite a bit of extended family, I might add), but they came here to become Americans. Ditto for my Venezualan relatives. Ditto for some of my extended family who came here from Mexico in the sixties and moved to Louisiana where they - for sure - had to integrate into the culture.

Now, there are entire enclaves of spanish speaking folks (mostly from Mexico) who get their education in spanish, watch tv in spanish, listen to spanish speaking radio, and deal with spanish speaking businesses in their neighborhoods. They are going to continue a cyle of poverty here on government aid because they are set up for failure just like poor inner city black kids.

But they will vote democrat, and the jobs they get in construction, restaurants, hotels, etc., will make big bucks for big business.

So, why bother. Nothing is going to change anytime soon.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

No, it isn't going to change soon. Once again, massive human migration is a world-wide problem that will continue to get worse as economic disparities, climate change, and the sheer population pressure of 7 billion people and growing, all trying to survive.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

And those billions migrating are moving from rural to urban centers, often in the wrong direction. What I mean by that is that there already is a high concentration of the world's population along coastal regions, those often threatened by future inundation by rising sea levels. Much of the world populations live in latitudes expected to be severely impacted by hotter and drier conditions too.

Adaptation is going to be a bytch.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

There's been massive movements of people on the African continent due to wars and famine, but those are the folks coming here.

There's been an influx of immigrants into Europe mostly for cheap labor and colonial guilt, but that experiment is going to well due to non assimilation, either.

When we were a country of wide-open land a family could settle and make a living off the land, but those days are gone.

Bringing in millions of uneducated people to compete for low-wage jobs is crazy. The country is broke and as we compete for fewer and fewer jobs, we will have more and more people living off government benefits. Where is the money going to come from?

How much can two minimum wage workers with three kids in school add to the economy? Their taxes will never even cover the cost of their kids schooling, let alone anything else.

Future democratic voters. Present and future cheap labor. Yeah, there's a lot of love for the poor, displaced people of the world, but only if you speak spanish, apparently. :)


 o
oops

That should be "those aren't the folks coming here."


 o
gee, I can't type today

"And isn't going too well, either."

The new puppy kept me up last night. :) BIG GRIN


 o
Its a whole big wonderful world

Illegal immigrants entering Western Europe from Africa, Asia, China, Eastern Europe etc are coming in numbers equal to or greater than the United States. The political turmoil from the Arab Spring led to hundreds of thousands of migrants going every which way.

The same thing, or worse, happens in Africa, where desperately poor starving people move into the same economy that barely sustains the existing population, driving down wages, competing for water, forage, and what other meager resources there are. The reaction is the same as well, if not worse, resulting in violence, murder, terrorism, and so on. Its the same thing.

What is going to be needed is a comprehensive, world-wide effort to try and mitigate this, with countries cooperating and learning from each others' successes and mistakes. I don't hold out much hope. The idea that some wall or a few laws is going to have much of a dent is just silly.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

The fact is people will face all sorts of obstacles to reach even alittle more freedom and economic security. Its been that way for eons. Early humans left Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago when it became inhospitable and immigrated north to populate the world. I don't see the folks south of the border who face all sorts of challenges and prejudice as really all that different from my Scots-Irish and Welsh ancestors who also refused to settle for bondage and poverty and gladly took residence at the bottom of the social scale as a buffer in the most dangerous (but affordable) places in the New World - in the frontier smack up against angry Native Americans where polite English immigrants preferred not to live.

David is right. We have global population shifts because humanity responds to disparities in opportunity this way. The solution might be not just border control but also economic investment and trade in other countries to help maintain economically viable neighbors. Our farm subsidies have as much to do with illegal immigration from South of the Border as does our porous border. I don't see our immigration problem as an existential threat. It is the one consistent thing about this country since the beginning - that and the inevitable carping throughout the entire existence of the nation from the established groups that those new immigrants are just not up to par.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

I concur with Ohiomom... more of the same old-same old...

And you know, I once foolishly, and embarrassingly, thought the same thing... that I shouldn't have to learn a foreign language in my own country. Now I realize how utterly foolish, egotistical, and self-centered that sounds, not to mention part of that entitlement we're always talking about. We are only one part of a large global economic community, in which many other countries teach their children English as a matter of normal school education, so that one day when they are adults, and part of that large economic global community, they will not have any problems communicating.

Look around... the USA is no longer the keeper of the world, top of the heap... we're more like the joke of our planet at the moment. Our time is just about over. It might actually behoove us to have a little humility and accept the fact that some day, we all may be forced to learn other languages... and not out of respect or friendship... but just to survive.

Unless you can honestly claim full blooded Native American heritage, you, too, are an immigrant... most of us are, either 1, 2, 3, 4, or more generations back. Most of our ancestors came here for the same reasons immigrants still risk everything and move from what's familiar, to what's completely new and unfamiliar... to gain better lives, more freedoms and liberties, security, safety, and more opportunities for their families... some to live a life free from persecution.

If I had children to care for, and I lived in a completely depressed country where my only options were mule for a drug cartel, or risking a run over a border to try for a better, more secure and safe life for my family, I'd risk that border crossing in a heartbeat. You wouldn't have to push me, or ask twice! Hell yeah, I want my children to have a better life! By definition, that's what a loving parent is! Someone who would risk it all to ensure a better life for their family!

You know... even with the problems we DO have in many parts of the US, some people still act and sound like spoiled, entitled little brats that take everything for granted.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Jodik,

Is it safe to say you are not a fan of Teddy Roosevelt? :)

Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."

He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."

He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"If I had children to care for, and I lived in a completely depressed country where my only options were mule for a drug cartel, or risking a run over a border to try for a better, more secure and safe life for my family, I'd risk that border crossing in a heartbeat."

Of course you would. It's a rational move.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

There's nothing egotistical and self-centered about not wanting to be brought down to second-world status, which is what is going to happen since we no longer have the advantage of having just ended a world war with all of our industrial powers in tact. If we continue to allow millions of uneducated people in to fight for low wage jobs, this is going to be a terrible place to live for a lot of people.

What state do you live in, Jodik? Just curious how much spanish speaking you have in your area.

By the way, my Venezualan relatives have chosen not to speak English to their kids for the first few years because they want them to be bilingual. And they "will" be bilingual - not monolingual in spanish. Kudos to them. Their children will get the benefits of living here while being bilingual.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Jodik lives in Illinois where the second language is "corruption".

Couldn't resist.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

LOL


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Second world status, LOL. They said the same thing about the Irish and Italians. The more things change the more they stay the same.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

They said the same thing about the Irish and Italians

Yeah, but they made a huge mistake allowing the Irish.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

People (read protestants) were deeply prejudiced against the Catholic Irish and Italians, but many who are for controlled immigration on our southern borders are not. Everyone that I know has hispanic neighbors, friends, and relatives. And personally having grown up in a strongly Catholic culture, I have no problems with the hispanic culture (minus too much machismo, I might add).

So try singing another tune, will ya?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"Look around... the USA is no longer the keeper of the world, top of the heap... we're more like the joke of our planet at the moment."

You are right, Jodi. I think the American people understand this. We've lost a lot of ground, and it doesn't look like we know what we are doing. Thank God we get to reassess what kind of leadership we want in the White House in just ten short months. I'm guessing a majority of Americans are ready for leadership that puts American interests first. I think Gov. Mitt Romney, with his business background and opposition to amnesty, will put a merciful end to the Obama presidency and our race to the bottom.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

HOOT! Nika, I forgot how droll you can be (often when you or I don't expect it.)


 o
message to Marshall

That's why you find me irresistible, Marshall.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Romney? I figured you for a Santorumite.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

But Romney speaks fluent French and spent two years there on his Mission.

Where he saw, first hand, the benefits of gvt sponsored, single payer health insurance.

/Once they've seen Paris, how can you keep 'em back on the farm?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 16, 12 at 18:56

Regarding Fred's original link: He's got a point ---

"From many Americans, though from fewer who have any idea what they are talking about, you could get the idea that illegal immigrants are brown sludge, the lazy and shiftless, the least intelligent of their countries, those unable or unwilling to make a living at home, who therefore go the the US to live on welfare. A certain paucity of logic informs much of this. If they come to live on welfare, how do they take the jobs of Americans, a crime of which they are regularly accused? But I note this only in passing. I do not mean to suggest that logic or knowledge have a place in politics.

The fact is that the illegals come to work, and do, well and hard, which is why conservative patriotic busnessmen block attempts to restrict immigration.

Which would be easy to do. Again, they come to work. Don't hire them, and they won't come. Illegals don't take jobs from Americans. Americans give them the jobs"

Or for a completely different angle, how about this proposal? Simply SELL American citizenship! That's one way to help bring down the debt and 'keep the riffraff out'...

"t. Kitts and Nevis, the Caribbean location of the world's first machete attack on a U.S. Supreme Court justice, also sporadically attracts the world's attention for its unusual citizenship practices. That's because you too can be a Kittitian and Nevisian for the not-so-low price of $250,000. All you have to do is hand over the cash.

Why would you want such a thing? Well, for residents of developing countries gaining access to a potential exit strategy in case of political instability is valuable. Some members of the old Egyptian elite, for example, might wish they had a nice island to flee to. For the rest, the islands' lack of income taxation may be all the inducement needed. As for the islands themselves, every bit of export earnings helps, especially since this particular form involves virtually no sacrifice on the part of the native-born. Indeed, the fact that the rather meager benefits the islands offer command such a high price naturally raises the question of whether a country that people actually want to move to - the United States of America, say - should get in on the game.

After all, lots of people want to come here. They want to come so badly that we spend more than $5 billion a year trying to keep them out. They want to come so badly that they pay thousands of dollars to coyotes to help them sneak past Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Patrol. Having made the dangerous journey, they then work without proper papers or legal rights.

Surely people willing to pay for a dangerous and illegal cross-border trip would be happy to pay somewhat higher amounts for the safety and convenience of a legal work permit."

Well HT Folks - What do you think?

Here is a link that might be useful: Citizenship for Sale?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

I wasn't even born yet when Teddy Roosevelt was President... I must be a lot younger than some of you old geezers, eh, Brush? ;-)

And I wasn't born in Chicago, either... so I don't know how the other things fit in... like corruption, and prejudice against Irish, and whomever else was mentioned.

All I said was... that a parent's main concern is making a decent, and better life for their children than they had. If that were my present scenario... I'd be doing whatever that took.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

We saw from the Republican Presidential debates that the candidates are okey dokey with allowing wanna-be citizens to join the armed forces as a route to citizenship.

Even further distancing the public from the consequences of the wars we fight.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"Romney? I figured you for a Santorumite."

Romney won't be handing out citizenship like a cheap trinket. That gives him stature none of the other candidates can claim. It also separates him from RINOs like Bush.

"We saw from the Republican Presidential debates that the candidates are okey dokey with allowing wanna-be citizens to join the armed forces as a route to citizenship."

Don't you just hate giving citizenship to people who serve in our military?

Citizenship should go to the people making real contributions to America. Like the Anti-American, Mexican flag waving protestors demanding citizenship NOW! Yep, Democrats say they deserve to be rewarded for sneaking into the country, violating US laws, and sucking up our resources faster than we can tax our own people to pay for them. Amnesty loving Dems and Newt say the longer they've been here lying and stealing resources from Americans, the more deserving they are.

Let's put them at the head of the line for citizenship. They're used to being first with certain US politicians. They get to stand in line in front of US citizens for everything else. Ever been a paying customer in a hospital emergency room? You know just what I mean. They get treated first, and they don't have to give a real name, and they don't get a bill. The guy behind them gets it. What a country.

So glad you mentioned American citizenship, David. Thanks for the reminder that Democrats object to letting people earn it by actually doing something for the country.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Oh, Obama and the libruls started that military service path to citizenship a couple years ago.

February 15, 2009
U.S. Military Will Offer Path to Citizenship

By JULIA PRESTON
Stretched thin in Afghanistan and Iraq, the American military will begin recruiting skilled immigrants who are living in this country with temporary visas, offering them the chance to become United States citizens in as little as six months.

Immigrants who are permanent residents, with documents commonly known as green cards, have long been eligible to enlist. But the new effort, for the first time since the Vietnam War, will open the armed forces to temporary immigrants if they have lived in the United States for a minimum of two years, according to military officials familiar with the plan.

Recruiters expect that the temporary immigrants will have more education, foreign language skills and professional expertise than many Americans who enlist, helping the military to fill shortages in medical care, language interpretation and field intelligence analysis.

"The American Army finds itself in a lot of different countries where cultural awareness is critical," said Lt. Gen. Benjamin C. Freakley, the top recruitment officer for the Army, which is leading the pilot program. "There will be some very talented folks in this group."

The program will begin small - limited to 1,000 enlistees nationwide in its first year, most for the Army and some for other branches. If the pilot program succeeds as Pentagon officials anticipate, it will expand for all branches of the military. For the Army, it could eventually provide as many as 14,000 volunteers a year, or about one in six recruits.

About 8,000 permanent immigrants with green cards join the armed forces annually, the Pentagon reports, and about 29,000 foreign-born people currently serving are not American citizens." snip

But don't despair - you can start complaining about all those foreigners taking away American Jobs in the military.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"But don't despair - you can start complaining about all those foreigners taking away American Jobs in the military."

Why would I complain? I'm a conservative. I like it when people come to the US with an attitude of gratitude. I like it when people wait for permission to enter our country. I like it when people who apply for jobs use their own IDs, instead of IDs they have stolen from victimized American citizens. I think law abiding foreigners with clean records and a willingness to wear an American flag and serve in our military are likely to make good citizens. I'm a conservative, so I think it's much better for our national interest than millions of Mexican flag-waving illegals with fourth grade educations, endless demands and not a shred of appreciation.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

On the particular post directly above, nikoleta is dead on. Whatever your disagreement or disappoint with ANYthing she has posted, no one can argue with the statement above. Our grandparents (mine, anyway) came thruogh Ellis (I think it was Bedsloe's then; I'm OLD).

They came for a better life--they asked for permission, and had to prove they were able bodied and had a work skill. They "Americanized" their names. They wanted to be Americans. They didn't expect The United to States to change for them; Lord knows they didn't come here to be on the public dole--they offered contributions to make America better.

These are things to consider, too, whatever your passion is today, that's a fact.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 18, 12 at 12:46

Opinions and stereotypes are not facts.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Opinions and stereotypes are not facts.

I second that.

they asked for permission

Mine didn't; they just came and were judged healthy enough to enter.

They "Americanized" their names.

No way, no how. We're still with the family surnames as they were in Piemonte and Toscana.

It's hard to argue for an americanization of names living in states, counties, and cities bearing the names of Spanish families, saints, and descriptions.

They wanted to be Americans. They didn't expect The United to States to change for them

They kept their language, religion, customs and traditions. There's a lot of traditional U.S. cooking that I had never heard of until well into my twenties. I still encounter so-called traditional U.S. dishes that I have never heard of.

they didn't come here to be on the public dole,

There was no such thing as the dole when they arrived.

they offered contributions

After they had overcome discrimination and battled stereotypes. Many kept the politics that they had formed in the 'old country' - they joined unions and went out on strikes.

The U.S. has a history of discrimination against the newest arrivals. A golden age of happy, well-behaved, and grateful immigrants is pure fantasy.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Studies show that by the second generation usually and almost always by the third immigrants have assimilated and learned English and become thoroughly americanized. I cant do the links but the studies are out there and I have seen documentaries about the subject-so it has always been with few exceptions.
Also the present administration has expelled more illegals than any previous government-its around 400,000 a year now last I heard.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Thanks, Nancy, for the thorough response to those points, thus saving my arthritic fingers from the tortuous toil of typing. My grandmothers never learned English, both being largely illiterate peasants to begin with. No immigration permits nor expectations of the Dole. What a weak-minded view of immigration.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Hmmm. Okay! Not going to argue with you. I'm probably wrong.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

So... who's winning?

Fact and reality? Or fallacy and GOP rhetoric?

I'm sorry... I haven't been paying attention... I'm all wrapped up in that Illinois corruption, don'tcha know... good grief!


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

A very interesting thead, thanks Marshall.

I have seen reprints of very old old newspaper articles with drawings of the Irish immigrants coming off the boat - many are drawn with a monkey/gorilla faces.

I've always found that to be very interesting.

The more we change, the more we stay the same.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"Mine didn't; they just came and were judged healthy enough to enter."

Let me help you out here, Nancy. Your relatives were "judged healthy enough to enter," because somebody was charged with making that call. Your relatives didn't just walk in. They came to the front gate seeking permission. Lucky you, it was granted.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Ellis Island? My relatives came before Ellis - the latest I've been able to determine was 1750 (Scotland) - the earliest was 1600's Jamestown and Boston. They only had to get safely here to get in. There was no immigration limit, there was no medical screen, no swearing in ceremony, nobody asked to see their papers. No one asked if they were loyal enough to the British government, were loyal members of the Church of England, or waved the British flag. I've no doubt that if Ulster was on our US border, my Scots-Irish ancestors would have swam or waded here border or no border to escape the poverty and high rents in Northern Ireland. However, once they became established, they too looked askance at those undesirables flooding in to the country through Ellis Island - people who had no part in the Revolution, did not speak the language, and were not acculturated.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

... nobody asked to see their papers.

Well, Pocahontas herself stamped MY relatives' passport.

/suck on that, DAR snobs


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Your relatives didn't just walk in.

If that had been an option - living on the same land mass instead of across the Atlantic - they would have done that.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"If that had been an option - living on the same land mass instead of across the Atlantic - they would have done that."

What? Illegal entry was their preference, but that wasn't an option because they lived on the wrong land mass? They sound a lot more interesting than my relatives.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Sorry, Nik. There's no twisting my comments to make it mean what you wrote.

But I'd still wager that my relatives were more interesting.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"Sorry, Nik. There's no twisting my comments to make it mean what you wrote."

There's that word again. Twisting. And once again, it doesn't apply. When you say your relatives would have walked in, had that been an option, I believe you. You don't explain why walking in would have been their choice if given the option, but so be it. I take you at your word.

"But I'd still wager that my relatives were more interesting."

Probably, although mine have been on TV a lot lately. I keep trying to spot somebody who looks like me in those crowds of rioting Greeks.


 o
important things first

And the IMPORTANT thing is???? What kind of puppy did you get Bird Lover? How old, color, name, etc. If you posted this already I missed it. Congratulations on the new addition.

A serious question for those of you who constantly champion and defend the "illegal aliens". What do you think should be done regarding the situation? Amnesty for those who are already here?


Yeah, that would work just like it did in 1986 when Reagan "signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. It was sold as a crackdown: There would be tighter security at the Mexican border, and employers would face strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers. But the bill also made any immigrant who'd entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage"


Yep, amnesty was granted to 3 million illegals in 1986 and how many illegals do we have now? What happened to tighter security at the border or employer's facing penalties for hiring illegals. Nothing! So what is your suggestion to resolve this problem liberals?


Oh and Nancy, just out of curiosity, is there anything at all you like about this country?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Lady, a gorgeous german shepherd female pup. We're all madly in love with her - well, the spoiled toy dog not so much, although it's been amazing how well they've gotten along. "Spoiled toy dog" will continue to have primacy and sleep in our bed with us. :)

Anyway, I'm still reading here, but trying not to get involved in any discussions since I'm so busy.

Thanks for asking.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

New puppies are *so* much fun, and can take up as much of your time/attention as a toddler so I imagine it's very busy in your house :)

I'vve been meaning to congrat you on the new addition to your family, sounds likes like a cutie!


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

I like Fred's slant on this issue. I think KT summed it all up best, in that immigration is well within the American tradition and has always existed. My own ancestors go back to the 1600's in Jamestown, VA, indentured laborers, risking everything out of desperation, undaunted by adversity, crossing in the depths of a tiny ship, to settle an uncharted wilderness. To disallow immigrants from south of the border at this point in time would be a reversal of part of what made this country great and rather hypocritical.As someone pointed out, assimilation will happen, in time, and the formerly new arrivals will look down their noses at the next "come heres." It's history repeating itself.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

Sort of. Back then, people came here to make a better life, i.e., work hard, become part of a community, be American.

Now, some come here for handouts, don't you think?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

elvis, I think they come over for the same reasons. There is always someone who wants a free meal in any society.
My ancestors came over before Ellis was anything more than an island, too. Pocahantas and her kin should have manned the beaches and repelled boarders. Would have saved a lot of pain for the true Americans. We invaded their land. Speaking of which, I've been out West and seen all the Hispanic names on everything. They were there first. Now we pretend we're the rightful owners and want to play a grown up version of "musical chairs" with guns.
Seven billion people on this small planet - soon to be nine billion. We need to figure out how to play nice.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

And I say Amen to that, Steve.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

"We invaded their land"

Well, as far as Texas goes, "Americans" were invited in - we didn't invade - because the government of Mexico couldn't get Mexicans to settle the area we now call Texas. Mexico never did really control Texas, contrary to popular misconceptions. Anglos were invited in and awarded huge land grants (Stephen F. Austin's being the most notable.) However, once the anglos were too plentiful and successful, Mexico began to change the laws by which the anglos had been invited in and you know the rest. Anglos wanted statehood. There was an eventual war. The U.S. won, and Mexico was compensated for the territory won in the war.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

What about all the Spanish settlements going up the Rio Grande? All those huge Land Grant Estates in New Mexico and South-Central Colorado? There are still an awful lot of tiny towns where Spanish has been the main language since the 1600's.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

And what about those indigenous folks living in Mexico when the Spanish conquistadores arrived with their nasty European diseases? How far back shall we go?


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

As far back and as deep as the truth shall lead you and me.

You are confusing the Mexicans with the Spanish and the French, both of whom controlled the lands of Mexico until the final revolution overthrew most of the oppressors.


 o
RE: Illegal immigration -- another slant

The Spanish + the Indians = the Mexicans today. Even though the official language of Mexico is Spanish, more than 56 Indian dialects are spoken. My point is, Europeans conquered Mexico, got rebelled against (Los Estados Unidos de Mexico).

Got on this tangent because of the reference to Spanish names in the southwest U.S.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here