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Documentary: The Waiting Room

Posted by WxDano none (My Page) on
Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 10:29

There are two questions that get asked again and again throughout Peter Nicks' film, The Waiting Room: "Do you have a regular doctor?" and "Do you carry health insurance?" And the answer that you hear over and over to both questions is a simple "no." After watching this extraordinary documentary (which somehow manages to be at once disheartening and life-affirming) I had to ask myself a question: "Does this country have a completely [f'd]-up health care system?" To which I answer with a simple "yes." Not that Nicks has set out to make a self-consciously polemical statement on the health care crisis. Quite simply, he allows the pure objectivity of a filmed record to speak for itself.

The premise is straightforward: document a "typical" 24 hour period in the life of a bustling public ER (in this case, at Oakland's Highland Hospital) and compress it into a 90-minute film. And as you would expect, all forms of human misery are on display, in a microcosm of Everything That Can Go Wrong with these ridiculously fragile shells we inhabit for "...eighty years, with luck-or even less" (if I may quote my favorite Pink Floyd song). A sweet little girl with a severe case of strep struggles to communicate as her loving parents take turns at her bedside. An uninsured 20-something couple (a man who has just learned he has a tumor, and his concerned wife) desperately confab with hapless and over-taxed attending physicians about how he's supposed to arrange the "emergency" surgery recommended by a private hospital that has palmed him off on Highland’s ER...

On my list to see. My mom worked all her life as a nurse.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Yes, we do have a regular doctor... no, we don't have health insurance. It's not in our present budget. We're cash pay for doctor visits, necessary medicines... and we do as much home doctoring as we can to save us from going deeper into debt.

For instance, I'd never run to the ER for a cut needing simple stitches... easy to do at home with the proper equipment and sterility, which isn't as difficult as it sounds. We've been doing our own vet work and our own health care for a very long time, now... and one becomes rather experienced when one doesn't have the wherewithal to run to the ER or to doctors or veterinarians every time there's a simple problem with a simple diagnoses and solution.

Is the American health care system messed up? Incredibly! To say otherwise is to tell an outright lie! We know this... but we seem to do little to correct the issues.

What America truly needs, and could easily afford, is a universal health care system not unlike the one Canada and other nations enjoy. Sure... every system has its glitches, which is to be expected with something so large... but it would be a huge sight better than what we have now.

"Obamacare" as it's been dubbed, is supposed to help with some of the issues... but it really isn't what we need. It falls severely short, in my opinion.


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Jodik, as you say, every system has it's glitches, and ours might not be perfect, but no Canadian has to worry about going to a doctor or to a Hospital Emergency and worry about paying it for it.

Canada has had Universal Health Care since the 1960's.

It is shameful that your Government does not provide health care to all of their citizens.

~Ann


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Exactly, Ann... it's beyond shameful. Profit has been placed before people. That much is crystal clear.


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Its not yet out on DVD. I saved it to the cue.


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Yes I have a family Doctor and Yes I have insurance. But I think health care is local just as all politics are local. We have an abundance of health facilities and doctors in the area. Health Care is big, big, big business in my city. You have to work hard at getting to much care they will treat you to death here.

As an example. I was in pain from my back they took my blood pressure and immediately wanted to put me on blood pressure meds. I told the doctor no. I would change my diet and once we got my back pain under control again we would revisit the blood pressure. When my back pain issue was addressed they agreed I did not need blood pressure meds.


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I think thew US will seriously look at universal healthcare only when the costs become so horrific it becomes untenable for corporations and citizens a like.

When business refuse to pay health insurance costs for their employees....people will sit up and take notice. Until then too many people have it good and don't see the problem.


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Jodik, I think that's a really good idea to be able to have the necessary equipment to do stitches on cuts not deep enough to be a really serious infection threat but deep enough that they won't stay closed with bandaids or steri-strips.

What does one need? Novacain syringes, benadyne, saline solution, a sterile needle and stitching material?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Bunch of Ferengis.


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No thanks on the home stitching...

Of course I want to be able to handle any emergency in a way that is beneficial to the victim but as a matter of course I want to have access to professional, sanitary, medical treatment.

Thank goodness that is available to me and my family without concern to the specific cost at the time of treatment. Which is not to say I am not cognizant of the fact there is a cost.


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WxDano, I grew up in a British colony where health care was free if one could get to the 'Public Hospital' in the city or a 'Cottage Hospital' in the rural areas.
I started to work in a Corporation which had a mandatory Contributory Hospital and Medical Insurance Scheme.
Health care centered heavily around the Sicknurse and Dispenser - a hybrid EMT/Pharmacist who often ran a drugstore or "Doctor Shop" for profit.
Parents would take or send their sick children to the Doctor-shop and for a fee, they would obtain treatment and/or medicine.
In three days we either recovered or died; and for the record, this is not composed by a ghost writer. Dielarity
I received stitches (courtesy of a nurse) on a couple of occasions.( Curved needle catgut and iodine).
A Sicknurse removed a badly infected toenail in front of my very eyes ... and sent me back to work.
I did have a septoplasty (general anesthesia; surgeon; the works).
Here in the USA, I recently underwent an endoscopy and all the ill effects I experienced were attributable to the indifferent service by support staff in my doctor's establishment.
The GERD specialist assured me that he found nothing abnormal; he "stretched" my oesophagus a bit (WHAT???) and I am to see him the first week of April for a follow up.
I wanted to question the necessity for a CT scan of my chest but already my Primary Care Physician has terminated our relationship because of my complaints.
And I do not wish to jeopardize my relationship with the specialist because I do not handle rejection well.
Must have been an "in utero" experience.
Only recently have I begun to perceive that the people who perform medical services for me show this almost mechanical response which cost me more in co-payments and leave me wondering whether the procedures and tests are really necessary.


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"I think thew US will seriously look at universal healthcare only when the costs become so horrific it becomes untenable for corporations and citizens a like."

How can that ever happen, now that we have Obamacare waiting for us? Didn't you hear? Our health care costs are going to go way down. Everybody will have health care, and we're going to save tons of money. (Democrats PROMISED!)

"When business refuse to pay health insurance costs for their employees....people will sit up and take notice."

Chase, You are so RIGHT! People who HAD health insurance will sure notice. Some already have. And people who HAD full time jobs with or without health insurance will notice that, too. Lots of people are joining that club. It will be a step forward in the long run, though. The only way for low information voters to understand Obamacare is to live with it, and to live without those things it will take from them. For some folks, experience is required in order for them to learn. The best part is that Democrats OWN Obamacare. And it's going to be a freaking disaster for them.


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Nik-revisionist what? Who is actually responsible for Obamacare-Democrats who really wanted to do something useful about a terrible situation or Republicans who refused to pass programs that they themsleves has originated??????? If for once people like you would propose something useful instead of carping about the crap program we ended up with because Rebublicans would NOT PASS ANYTHING ELSE !!! Oh yes-do nothing-that is going to fix it.

I do have insurance and I also now have a Doctor but my old one retired and some how I neglected to select a new one so when I had a major medical issue it took months to see anyone-not because the doctors dont have time in their schedules but because they werent seeing new patients for 5 more months. Now that I have a doctor I could see her tomorrow if I needed to-crazy! Our system sucks.


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Nonsense.....just plain nonsense.... but acknowledging the facts has never been your strong suit Nik,,,,

The day you have arguments based on facts.....because there are plenty of legitimate arguments to be had vis a vis Obamacare , immigration et al......is the day I will engage in debate with you until then...you're just blowing smoke,


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Betadine, syringes, disposable staple guns in a variety of sizes, staple remover, bandaging, amoxicillin or cephalaxin... or sometimes superglue will do the trick if the cut is small and not deep.

It helps to have surgical scissors, forceps in a variety of sizes and shapes, scalpels with disposable blades, One can use regular sutures if one prefers. Nothing that can't be had through various supply sources... except for the antibiotics, which are handy to have on hand.

One would irrigate the wound, clean it with an antiseptic, ensure no foreign matter was embedded, make certain there were clean edges for good closure, and either stitch or staple. The abridged edition. It's not difficult... one simply needs the stomach for it. There are a variety of cremes and wound dressings to keep bacteria at bay... or the use of an oral, or in some cases an injectable antibiotic would work.

When you live a great distance from medical help, it's smart to know how to do certain things... especially when you have children, or keep pets and livestock, and work with farm machinery and such.

I wouldn't begin to tell all the procedures that I've seen performed, or assisted with... and I wouldn't recommend trying it without experience or knowledge, or the proper tools, but preparedness is never a bad thing.

If we had a better, more reasonable and available health care system, people wouldn't have to put off medical procedures, or go without medications they need, or go into debt because of illness... people wouldn't have to look for ways to save money because modern medical is out of their reach.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

The IRS needs to change the tax code and send out 1099's to all employees who benefit from an employer plan, along with a tax bill for 35% of benefit.

That'll change things.


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"I do have insurance and I also now have a Doctor but my old one retired..."

Yep. You saw it coming though, right? Experienced doctors are on their way out of the profession. They did warn us. Millions of newly insured people will be looking for a doctor...but there will be fewer of them. As they promised. Is this what you wanted?

And then there's this...

FTA: "Even the government’s actuaries admit fewer people will get coverage at work after the employer mandate goes into effect than if the law had not passed."

Is this what you wanted?

Democrats own this turkey...by the end of 2014, people will have lived with it for almost a year. And timing is everything.

Here is a link that might be useful: Obamacare Realities


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

What we've found is that it's very difficult to find a truly competent doctor that holds to the oath they took, and takes diet and nutrition into consideration.

Many are pill pushers for the pharmaceutical industry, many don't truly listen to their patients, and too many work for large corporations instead of holding their own practice.

It's not that easy to find a really good doctor... at least, that's been my experience.


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Dontcha just love to see the human compassion flowing, everyone realizing that Obamacare will cover 30,000,000 currently un-insured people, the working poor who can't get insurance at their places of employment? How liberating that will be for these people to actually afford health care?

What a boost to the economy this will be, and the non-partisan CBO tells us that Obamacare reforms to Medicare will save us hundreds of billions as well.

But more needs to be done. We should cast off the shackles of corporate influence in Congress and negotiate for pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Many are pill pushers for the pharmaceutical industry, many don't truly listen to their patients, and too many work for large corporations instead of holding their own practice.

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You think it's bad now?

Wait until Obamacare is in full effect.

Doctors already are having to shut down their practices and work for hospitals.

There will be no incentive to maintain a private practice.

I know several doctors that have already eliminated offices, office staff, and are planning to close down their practices.
They can't make money anymore. They can't afford the expenses--especially malpractice insurance, and for those that treat primarily older patients, medicare reimbursement doesn't cover the expenses for certain procedures and followup for a patient.

Hospitals will bear those costs and doctors will just be employees of hospitals.

Good luck asking for a particular doctor when you need one--you're likely to get whoever the hospital associated with the doctor wants you to have.

McObama Care.

Serving the masses since 2010.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Funny that America doesn't negotiate with pharmaceutical corporations like so many other countries...


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

I am saving threads like this so that, if I am still alive in 4 years, I can bring the contents up in the faces of some posters here on HT.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

As the deadline draws near, the health care industry lobbyists are frantically at work.

"Medical device makers, health insurers, retailers and restaurants are waging what lobbyists call a coordinated effort to gain Senate Democratic support for overturning $130 billion in taxes that will be used to fund the new law, and repealing a mandate requiring employers to provide insurance coverage for full-time workers or pay a fine.

The campaign is backed by two of the business world's lobbying powerhouses: the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business, or NFIB. The latter had a leading role in 2012's failed attempt to overturn the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act in the Supreme Court.

Known as Obamacare, the 2010 law will bring sweeping change to the $2.8 trillion U.S. health care industry starting January 1, 2014, including bringing health insurance to millions more Americans.

But with Congress mired in partisan gridlock, lobbyists are gearing up for a battle against the law's costs that is likely to intensify as lawmakers shift attention to the 2014 congressional elections and the campaign donations they may need.

snip -

The health care industry has spent more than $700 million to lobby Congress and U.S. agencies from 2010 onward, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Companies, executives and employees have poured millions more into the coffers of House and Senate members up for re-election in 2014.

-snip-

Klobuchar in 2011 invited the chief executive of Minnesota-based Medtronic, the world's largest stand-alone medical device maker, to the annual State of the Union address. Medtronic spent over $22 million on lobbying between 2008 and 2012, according to the Senate Office of Public Records.

Some experts say the chances are slim for meaningful change to the health care law.

"They certainly can't get past the presidential veto, even if they were to get through the Senate," said John Rother, president of the National Coalition on Health Care, which represents medical societies, businesses, unions and health providers.

"This is chest-pounding for the benefit of the constituency. It's a way to get people riled up and write checks. And if you're a lobbyist, it's a way to show you're on the job," said Rother.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lobbying is hard, hard work


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

So Demi you know all these doctors that paid large sums of money for education are closing their office and going to work for hospitals. The hospitals will need all these doctors? If they do not get a position on staff I guess they will have to be one of those Takers you talk about.

We will have Welfare Kings next. Is that what you think will happen? I guess they are a product of their decisions.


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I guess they are a product of their decisions.

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No, they will be a product of government decisions.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 13:08


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Demi that is a urban legend that all these doctors are closing their offices and running to hospitals. Unless being a doctor was a hobby.

Sounds like you are trying to change the Personal Responsibility. As I understand your thoughts.....

If people plan and save they should not be takers. There is no work and sickness issue changes that should effect your Personal Responsibility. Laws change, society change they did not plan for changes? They failed their personal responsibility test.

The candles use to be the only light source. Should we have stopped electricity because candle makers would not get what they use to receive?

Cars running on batteries should we not have battery operated cars because we will not need as much oil?

See how that progress works?


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The era of the private, primary care physician is rapidly coming to an end. The reimbursement for a checkup, or a visit to send a patient on to a specialist, just isn't high enough, and they're all either consolidating or working for hospitals.

Its the same for a lot of medicine. Its just more efficient, and better for the doctors as well. They earn a salary, have decent hours, etc.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Nik-your senario is not my senario-my doctor retired before Obamacare was even heard of-I just thought I was registered with the same clinic and even though I have insurance I dont run to the doctors for fun like conservatives assume Baby mamas do-because some one else is going to pay for it and they have nothing else to do that day. The problem was my insurance requirements.

So where are your constructive solutions to the mess we have because Republicans WILL NOT act? Huh? Do you not remember any of the crap that Democrats went through to get the pathetic mess we now have as a sort of patch until Republicans either wake up or die in the coming pandemic so we can start over?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

There are some unintended consequences. I wonder how many others (colleges, universities, businesses) will do the same thing, except they won't come out and broadcast it.

"A Capital Region community college is one of a growing number of schools that are cutting the hours of part-time teachers to avoid health insurance requirements under Obamacare."

"The Affordable Care Act mandates that large employers offer health insurance -- " or pay a penalty --" to employees who work 30 hours or more per week. Hudson Valley Community College earlier this month reduced the hours of adjunct instructors to make sure the school stays under that threshold."

"At least four other public colleges say they plan to reduce hours for adjunct teachers, including Florida's Palm Beach State College, Pennsylvania's Community College of Allegheny County, Ohio's Youngstown State University, and New Jersey's Kean University."

It goes on to say that adjunct teachers are bearing more of the curriculum load than ever before while being excluded from benefits.

There was another article, which I can't locate at the moment, which said that HVCC experienced a huge leap in enrollment over the past decade and, expecting to maintain that level of enrollment, spent a lot of money on programs that now have to be maintained with a declining enrollment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to Cite


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These places were not offering health insurance to these employees in the first place - even if they worked more than 30 hours.

And now, these same employees are able to get health insurance via the state exchanges.

If I was one of these employees, I'd be pretty happy.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

David I heard the opposite. That there were going to be opportunity and grants offered for primary care because they want to stop the diseases needing the specialist.

There is suppose to be a bigger push for Primary Care and Physician's Assistants to fill the stop gap need for expensive specialist care.

We have thousands of those Urgi-Care on every corner. People do not go to the hospital emergency room anymore.


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Just the beginning.


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Just the beginning.

Yup, Demi, it's just the beginning of providing much needed health care to those that need it, instead of sitting back and letting people die because they do not have health insurance.

And that's only one of so many improvements that have been and will be implemented.

Just the beginning. of a government that will actually care about the health and well being of all the people, all it's citizens and that, Demi, is a good thing.


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People getting health care they need is a good thing.

People getting health care they don't need, damaging our economy, diminishing the quality and access to health care for some, less choices and less doctors and care for patients is NOT a good thing.


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Just the beginning. of a government that will actually care about the health and well being of all the people, all it's citizens and that, Demi, is a good thing.

We'll see.


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After my primary doctor of 20 years got cancer, I had to make a switch 11 years ago. Luckily I found a great guy and the biggest perk , he's a real close friend of my daughter. The couples vacations together. I only see a doctor once a year for a physical and was very close to this doctor who's in his 40's and very intelligent and compassionate. Unfortunately he decided he was leaving his practice and starting his own boutique practice with a yearly fee of $2000. I saw him right before he left, and a year later saw my new doctor. If I would have stayed, $2000 is a little steep for my yearly physical. Old doctor was tired of the paperwork. He gives all patients his email address and cell phone number and is available to everyone 24/7. He apparently is very successful at this new venture and will soon be taking a partner and expanding. Each doctor will keep their own patients but will cover when one is on vacation.

This is the future. More and more of these concierges are popping up.If I would choose to go with him , my insurance wouldn't even pay for referrals he'd make. I miss him and our relationship, and do not have this with the new doctor. No relationship at all.


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You know, sometimes one needs to witness things happen with their own eyes in order to realize the bigger picture.

And speaking of, while I was visiting my family recently, a woman who works for the same company my daughter works for, and who holds two jobs, both with part time hours... because that's all she could get in the area... was fired from one of those jobs because the company of her first job bought the smaller store of her second job, and told her she would be working too many hours (by their definition) which would equal a full time position of 40 hours with their company.

Fired, because working both of the jobs she needs to support her family would put her at 40 hours per week, and would make her eligible for insurance and other benefits the company is unwilling to pay.

Whatever happened to appreciating and rewarding the value of a good employee?

There's so much broken with health care... and pretty much every other system... and I don't think "Obamacare" will be enough to address what needs addressing. I'm beginning to think that we are, yet again, being humored with something that has giant loopholes for big industry to walk through and get away without giving the people what's needed.


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It is ridiculous for health care to be tied to employment in any way, in my opinion, unless a company wants to pay for physicals for employees--extras, that sort of thing.

But not primary health care.

Of course Obama and the Democrats took an opportunity to make sure that employers were even MORE INVOLVED in our health care than before--by law.

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"This is the future. More and more of these concierges are popping up.If I would choose to go with him , my insurance wouldn't even pay for referrals he'd make. I miss him and our relationship, and do not have this with the new doctor. No relationship at all."

My internist of nine years in the last place I lived has gone to concierge service. My good friend's mother is in her 70s and he has also been her doctor for years. She can't see him anymore because of Medicare.

The wave of the future--doctors are being forced to make these changes, shut down practices and work for hospitals, or quit and involve themselves in other business venture because of the government's inefficient meddling.


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" without giving the people what's needed."

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That kind of says it all to me, why some of us think so differently.


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Of course Obama and the Democrats took an opportunity to make sure that employers were even MORE INVOLVED in our health care than before--by law.

How do you see that? Now, people can buy individual policy insurance at group rates via the exchanges. Its completely separated from what ever job you wish to take.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 16:52

"Of course Obama and the Democrats took an opportunity to make sure that employers were even MORE INVOLVED in our health care than before--by law."

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How do you see that?

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Are not employers with 50 or more full time employees required to offer health care insurance to their employees because of the "Affordable Care Act?"

If that's not involving employers in health care by law, I don't know what is.


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People getting health care they don't need

Who is that? the people that weren't getting health care before because their employer didn't offer it and didn't pay them enough to afford it for themselves?


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"These places were not offering health insurance to these employees in the first place - even if they worked more than 30 hours."

I don't know, David, they are getting their hours cut, which means less pay, and perhaps fewer opportunities for advancement into a full time position.

Part-time faculty with at least 12 contact hours are allowed to join the college's plan, but they have pay the full premium price, which is comparable in price to what is offered on our current state insurance website, but covers a lot more.

So, yeah, it's a loss. Maybe not a huge loss, but still a disadvantage for some folks.


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"You know, sometimes one needs to witness things happen with their own eyes in order to realize the bigger picture."

Yep, jodi. Look at this mom you mentioned:

She had 40 hours a week, no insurance.

What does she have now?


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Posted by esh_ga z7 GA (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 17:16

People getting health care they don't need

Who is that? the people that weren't getting health care before because their employer didn't offer it and didn't pay them enough to afford it for themselves?

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Overtreatment, repeated visits to doctors because doctors refuse to consolidate tests and treatments to one visit, CT scans and MRIs for little aches and pains.

Medicare is a perfect example.


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Did you read the whole post, Nik? Cause you don't seem to see the problem.

Before, when she HAD both part time jobs, she could afford to pay for medical. But because both job venues are now owned by the same company, instead of having different owners as they once did, the company now owning both stores fired her from one job.

She's out the money to pay for her own medical, and out a job... she's out half the money she made, because the company owner doesn't want to offer any positions that equal the hours necessary for employees to obtain health insurance and other benefits.

It's not a new scenario. More and more we're seeing corporations increasing profit to the top in ethically questionable ways, and health insurance and other employee benefits are on the chopping block. Full time positions are being cut, managers are being asked to do more for the same salary, etc...


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This thread has been instructive on why this country will be on the route to single-payer health insurance system of some sort as a basic entitlement with private insurance plans and health services for those requiring or demanding additional care.


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Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 22:58

This thread has been instructive on why this country will be on the route to single-payer health insurance system of some sort as a basic entitlement with private insurance plans and health services for those requiring or demanding additional care.

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I certainly hope that is the case, Marshall.


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"Did you read the whole post, Nik? Cause you don't seem to see the problem."

I understand perfectly.

Democrats have ensured that every full-time worker now comes with baggage!

Your friend is like people across the country. Obamacare burdens employers of full time workers. Part time workers don't carry that burden. What do you think happens under those circumstances?

Your friend's employer opted not to spend thousands of dollars to keep her on as a full time worker. Why would he? He can hire part timers at a lower cost, and he doesn't have to waste time and money on mandates that apply only to full timers, and cost him more than they're worth.

Surely you did not expect good things to come from this wacky "business model" Democrats cooked up in the middle of the night. Did you?


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What on earth is so completely different between Canada and the US that means we can have a universal healthcare system that works really well for everyone,.

Yes there are some issues we need to improve, but by far , by far , the majority of Canadians , conservatives included, would never see it gone.

Healthcare is like education.....a basic obligation of a fair, just and democratic society.

With all due respect....I don't get you guys...I just don't get it ....and thankfully I don't have to.


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Democrats have ensured that every full-time worker now comes with baggage!

Your friend is like people across the country. Obamacare burdens employers of full time workers. Part time workers don't carry that burden. What do you think happens under those circumstances?

Kudos to the author of this parody character. That's good comedy.

That, or Poe's Law is in play yet again.


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What is the mystery to me is every job I have had health care was part of the benefits. In my entire career I worked for 8 companies. They were all major companies and one was government.

All of a sudden people (conservatives) are acting like Health Care is this diamond that companies never offered. I still have friends that are still working and they said their health care is not changing. They are still going to have the usual choices that the Company offered. What am I missing?

Do we have this many unemployed, only employed flipping burgers, never worked and their husbands had insurance and they do not have a clue what health insurance covers or the cost or the increase of cost every year, on disability since they were 20. What?

Companies I see saying they are not going to offer health insurance seem to be burger, pizza, chicken joints. Is that will Conservatives work?


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"Whatever happened to appreciating and rewarding the value of a good employee?"

Nothing happened. Valued employees in privately owned companies in 2013 are compensated with ownership stakes or with things like periodic shopping excursions in catalogs....when the employee has shown their value. Longevity of employment does NOT deserve recognition, nor does longevity equate to value or goodness or loyalty.

Marquest...exactly how long have you been out of the workforce? This stuff is changing annually for those of us who work.

1. My OB GYN posted 1 yr ago that they no longer take Medicare patients.
2. Mammogram office 14 months ago ...no more Medicare patients.
3. GP - 2 yrs ago... No more out of state Medicare.

In my house, the very personal savings rate skyrocketed starting about 2 yrs ago. And this household has chosen to keep paying high rates for extremely good employee sponsored health insurance. If doctors, who clearly practice among aging demographics, aren't taking Medicare....it's telling me that they are betting on continued success with private pay patients. I'll do what I can to keep having choices....especially including the choice to be private pay.

We know that we are capable of affording the best. We have European family members to model ourselves on, family who have lived with their own nationalized AND private pay health caresystems. We prefer the ability to keep having choices.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

jmc01, I have been out three years. But as I said I have several basically all my friends are still working except one that retired early too.

I cannot imagine any major corporation not offering benefits. All government employees have health insurance and that will not change. It is private citizens it appears they have convinced they are not worthy.

I am not experiencing the health professional issues or anyone in my family. I help out a lot of seniors and not one has had to change their doctors and there are no notices on their doors that they are closing or not accepting Medicare/Medicaid patients.

I know there will be problems in the Red states because they are not accepting the Medicaid and fighting the Health Care so the hospitals in those states are going to offer poor service even if you have private insurance.

As I hear these stories of doctors leaving their practice and not accepting patients without private insurance I am happy I do not live in the Red states or a state that does not have excellent health care professional.

You can be assured that with the low number of independently wealth in a state they cannot pay enough for your hospital to purchase the updated equipment, hire top staff, cleanliness and all other costly health necessities. Live in your dream world of you have great personal insurance I hope you stay healthy and do not need the most updated health care necessary to survive. Texas Hospitals have already warned Mr Ricky cannot remember 3 things that will be gone when he becomes President.

What you are experiencing please note it is not the norm for every state. I am happy I lucked out in a state with good health care.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

or with things like periodic shopping excursions in catalogs..

You are joking...right?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"All government employees have health insurance and that will not change. It is private citizens it appears they have convinced they are not worthy."

As to whether or not that will change, we will see. Working for the government is no different than working for any other employer. Benefits can and do change. BTW, I had no idea that when I became a government employee I ceased to be a private citizen. How about that. Just sayin'.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Marquest, every decent job I've ever worked was full time, and offered decent, affordable health insurance as standard practice for all full time employees... along with other benefits, depending on the company. Now, less companies want to offer full time positions... many of those that do have gone with insurance packages that offer a lot less for more money... it seems to be a common thread these days.

I don't know why there's any denial from the GOP sector that this is happening... it most assuredly is.

Nik, 2 part time jobs, equaling 38-40 hours, with 2 different companies does not qualify one for health insurance unless they buy it privately... but a full time position equaling 38-40 hours with one company would qualify that person... especially when that company offers it to their other full time employees. When that company begins dropping its employees to part time hours and pulling their eligibility to obtain insurance through said company... well... you do the math.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

The government (Congress) will not change because they are aware of the benefit of having health insurance. They know to continue that benefit it needs to be a group.

They are the ones making laws which is why you do not hear them passing laws to remove their benefit. So elvis you do not need to fear you will lose your insurance.

Jodi, that is the norm in my state and my friends are saying it is still the norm for their employers. A couple of them said they were happy to see their co pays went down or stayed the same. That is something they had not seen in 10 years.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"...completely [f'd]-up health care system?'"

"Red states"

more of the same. You too can be presented with facts, and still the same rhetoric.

Just because your mom worked in the system, doesn't give you insight into the inner workings. It's like not being a bigot because you have "friends". I've presented the facts from both the insurance payor side and from the healthcare side. More than a decade in one and almost a score of years in the other. The whole system is not f'ed up. There are portions that are. Sure, but that's always going to happen. Why aren't you attacking those who seek medical treatment but really don't need it ("faking" or exaggerating to get meds or those who have a cold, but you can't medicate a cold, so why go to the doctor? or...) Utlization is also an issue, but no one ever wants to think about that. Just as a for instance. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And if you want it to be about issues, you're going to have leave off remarks about GOP/libtards/Red states. These terms are divisive.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Individual and small-group practitioners have been limiting the number of patients they will take who are on TriCare, Medicare and Medicaid for at least 15 years now.

If thats the coverage you have, in practical terms you'll need to find a subsidized hospital with an associated clinic. And these outfits are now on the cutting edge of limiting costs - because they have to.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

your points are well made David.

Three things to think about in this discussion: there are many many baby boomers who are living longer than past generations and Americans are getting increasingly fatter-all while the medical professionals are in shorter and shorter supply. There is only so much room in hospitals, so many patients that can be seen... where do they all go? We need new answers and new processes. It's a burdened system with no easy answers.


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It's all about the baggage

"Nik, 2 part time jobs, equaling 38-40 hours, with 2 different companies does not qualify one for health insurance unless they buy it privately..."

Wrong. Democrats dictated that 30 hours per week is full time. Where have you been?

"...but a full time position equaling 38-40 hours with one company would qualify that person..."

Wrong. 30 hours=full time.

"When that company begins dropping its employees to part time hours and pulling their eligibility to obtain insurance through said company... well... you do the math."

Well, what did you expect? Conservatives warned from the get-go the math didn't work. Your friend is out one of her jobs because Democrats made keeping her under 30 hours a week, and hiring somebody else for the other job a no brainer for the employer.

Employers have changed their behavior to comply with the law. Your friend is worse off and it's all about the baggage.

Here is a link that might be useful: Obamacare: Incentive for part time hiring


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Employers have changed their behavior to comply with the law"

Do you have any factual information to back up that statement? If so what percent of all employers? What percent of all employees?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

I agree, the U.S. medical services system is totally f*ed up. I think the problems began with Reagan deregulating hospitals and removing tax breaks for non-profit medical insurance which effectively wiped them out. Now we have Reagans ideal "consumer choice" - people can go without medical attention or go to the emergency room if they can't afford insurance!

This comment from a blog posting sums up my understanding of the history of profiteering off medicine:

For-profit health insurance didn’t exist until after 1980, when Ronald Reagan became president.
Before 1980, non-profit healthcare insurers enjoyed tax breaks that made for-profit insurers reluctant to try to compete with them. (For-profit insurers also saw healthcare as a high-risk business�"they hadn’t yet figured out how to avoid sick patients.)
Richard Nixon had given non-profit insurers the tax breaks. To his credit, Nixon understood that healthcare was a necessity and that it shouldn’t be too expensive. The tax breaks helped the non-profits make insurance affordable.
(Nixon also backed a very generous plan for universal coverage. He and Ted Kennedy had reached an agreement. Unfortunately this was just a couple of months before “Watergate Summer.”
Once the Watergate scandal broke, Nixon lacked the authority to lead the nation on healthcare reform )
When Reagan came to office, he canceled the tax breaks for the non-profit insurers.
Now, the for-profit insurers saw they might begin to move into the market, and use their deep pockets to drive non-profits out of the business�"which they did.
The for-profit insurers then proceeded to raise premiums and make it difficult for sick suctomers to purchase insurance.
Why did we put up with this?
Because in the 1980s and 1990s, Reagan’s belief in “free market competition” creating the fairest system swept the country.
It seemed, to many, that “what was good for America” was what was good for corporate America.

Reagans deregulation caused many hospitals to shut down and others to be merged so we now have mega-hospitals without any price competition whatsoever.

Here is a link that might be useful: insurance


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Never mind, Nik... I can't explain something when context is being completely ignored.

Carry on...


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

I remember those Reagan years, both his terms as governor and as president. He closed State hospitals, forcing the mentally ill into the street, private facilities and the prisons.

At that point my part of coastal California supported over a dozen hospitals and independent clinics. Today, one massive hospital/clinic complex has eliminated most competition, buying up some, but absorbing the customer base of those that closed outright. The hospital has nearly finished doubling its size and rebuilding most of the existing buildings now mostly incorporated into the expansion.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 21:35

Here we have "Cleveland Clinic City" .... gobble gobble belch


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"I can't explain something when context is being completely ignored."

Pick any context you like, or try the one in front of you.

An employer needs someone to work 40 hours a week.

He can hire one employee and saddle himself with thousands of dollars in unnecessary spending on Obamacare.

He can hire two or more part timers (as defined by Democrats) and avoid the hassle and expense.

We know which option your friend's employer chose. Employers have been warning this would happen since last year. Now it's happening across the country.

Obamacare is baggage that puts an end to full time jobs.

Your friend's employer changed his behavior, as we knew he would.

Full time employees=Baggage

Part time employees=Solution


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Assuming that an employee is going to willingly and happily stick around working some full time job for a jerk that won't pay health benefits.

Or, see, the company owner could pay a fine, and let the employee get his health insurance from the exchange.

Compassion for the jerk who won't cover his employees, and none for the people who work for him. Sounds about right.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

He can hire one employee and saddle himself with thousands of dollars in unnecessary spending on Obamacare.

What was employers saddled with that provided Health Care as a benefit? A benefit that I had all my working life. Trust me Nik the only ones complaining on the news of having health insurance for their employee seems to be the burger, pizza, food service joints.

I asked before. What am I missing? All major corporation had health insurance as a benefit before ObamaCare. Why do people have a problem with companies giving their employees health benefits. Something that they were doing before ObamaCare. Are you aware that this was a benefit. It is not new.

Have you ever had a job that included Health Insurance. If you work for a really good company they even give you short term disability insurance that you collect your salary while you are in the hospital.

I think conservatives have worked in some pretty low level jobs to think that this is such a foreign concept that never happened before.

If you are a mom and pop organization they are exempt so what is the problem?

Do you really think that Heinz Ketchup is not going to hire people because the health insurance they have been offering their employees for 60+ years is now vilified by Conservatives as ObamaCare? Who knew all this time corporations thought it was employment benefit but now they have to fire all those people because it is called ObamaCare. Do you see how ridiculous this sounds?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

So...

How about offering basic and emergency health care as a universal service available to every man, woman, and child regardless of income or employment status?

If health care is not tied to your employer or whether you are full time/part time... then they won't be tempted to cut everyone back to part time hours.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

If health care is not tied to your employer or whether you are full time/part time... then they won't be tempted to cut everyone back to part time hours

Only if they can call it BushCare or RomneyCare.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Employers have been warning this would happen since last year. Now it's happening across the country.
-----------------

Obamacare is baggage that puts an end to full time jobs. "
------------------
Nik , not sure where you get your info but I cannot find any information anywhere that indicates what you say is happening across the country. Again I ask you ...how many employers, how many employees? How do you explain the fact that according to all the jobs data , full time jobs are growing ? What is your source of information?

No doubt some employers will cut employees back by enough hours to avoid paying them benefits but there is no evidence this will be as widespread as you indicate and it most certainly will not happen in a way that will "put an end to full time jobs". Statements like that are inflammatory and patently untrue.

-------------------------
"An employer needs someone to work 40 hours a week.

He can hire one employee and saddle himself with thousands of dollars in unnecessary spending on Obamacare.

He can hire two or more part timers (as defined by Democrats) and avoid the hassle and expense. "
------------------

Only someone with little or no management experience would make such a statement.

Headcount has a high price to it. It's not just the hours, there are many , many other issues with having twice as many "heads" on the payroll as you need .

The costs are real, as real as health care costs. Scheduling , personnel issues , withholding tax, tax forms, SS deductions AND the corresponding employer contribution, real estate space, workman's comp...on and on.

TWO employees working 20 hours each can in no way be compared to one employee working 40 hours from a cost and overhead perspective based on salary alone.

As far as I'm concerned the broad statements you make are based on emotion and you intense dislike for this President and his policies not on real facts. You're blowing smoke....


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

He can hire one employee and saddle himself with thousands of dollars in unnecessary spending on Obamacare.

The clueless: still clueless.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

So...

How about offering basic and emergency health care as a universal service available to every man, woman, and child regardless of income or employment status?

Hamilton, charitable, non-profit hospitals used to have to maintain an emergency room open to all, regardless of their ability to pay in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. That changed in 1983 (Reagan) with Revenue Ruling 83-157. Now non-profit hospitals can charge uninsured patients exorbitant rates, and they do.

See page 170 of this law review article.

Here is a link that might be useful: rutgers law journal


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Only someone with little or no management experience would make such a statement."

Really??? I could have sworn it was MANAGEMENT that promised to cut hours and hire more part timers!

The link you didn't open explains how Obamacare is killing full time jobs. Democrats were way too clever, calling 30 hours a week full time.

What kind of "management experience" assumes calling 30 hours a week won't change employer behavior? Some have responded by limiting hours to 25 per week. Liberals never saw it coming. Employees are left with too few hours, and they still don't have insurance. Libs didn't see that coming, either.

"I asked before. What am I missing? All major corporation had health insurance as a benefit before ObamaCare."

Most people don't work for "major corporations." They work for small business with far fewer resources. Just because Democrats ordered small businesses to buy employees insurance doesn't mean they can afford to. Dictating to the small employer was a lot easier for Democrats than cleaning up after their Obamacare monstrosity will be. What a mess they've gotten themselves into.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

At the link is a reasonably clear explanation of how Obamacare will affect small businesses. From Businessweek, that commie, socialist publication.

Hint: the sky isn't falling.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Who knew that words like immigration, Obamacare, and others were capable of instilling nightmares...


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Jodi, I guess we never saw the nightmares coming.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Edited to delete my comments because I am tired of trying to debate a subject with those who are just blowing smoke because of their intense dislike for this President and his policies.

I'm done with it...

This post was edited by chase on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 20:38


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Nik: "An employer needs someone to work 40 hours a week.
He can hire one employee and saddle himself with thousands of dollars in unnecessary spending on Obamacare.
He can hire two or more part timers (as defined by Democrats) and avoid the hassle and expense."
------

That's true. If the employer has 50 employees, and hires 1 more...

"Do I have to provide health insurance to my employees?
The Affordable Care Act does not require employers to provide health insurance for their employees.

The Employer Responsibility provision of the Affordable Care Act applies to businesses with more than 50 full-time workers."

Just sayin'. That statement is true.

Here is a link that might be useful: More than 50 Employees


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Hint: the sky isn't falling."

Let me tell you something. I grew up in a poor household. I can say with certainty that the loss of full time hours can be devastating to struggling families relying on those hours. I wouldn't dream of dismissing the impact of fewer hours the way you just did. Full time work means more to folks at the bottom than you can begin to comprehend. I don't mean "full time" as in Democrats' poorly thought out thirty hours a week, either. Workers need every one of their forty hours back. Obamacare robbed people of their jobs and their pride. And the fallout is just beginning.

"The Employer Responsibility provision of the Affordable Care Act applies to businesses with more than 50 full-time workers."

Yep. What do you figure happens when the employer does the math for hiring employee #51?

Does he hire another person, as he did before Obamacare? Or does he adapt his behavior to avoid being buried under Obamacare baggage? See any impact on job growth here?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Nik you say how horrible it is to lose a few hours of work. How horrible do you think it is for a parent to have a child with Lukemia and the insurance company said your child has hit the limit and they will no longer pay? What cost do you think a child's life is worth? You cry for the company?

How horrible is it that when my daughter turned 21 and was in college and I could no longer keep her on my insurance and could not buy insurance on the market because she had a pre-existing condition of Asthma. Without proper care she could die. Many kids died because they could not get the proper meds because they did not have the medicine.

You and so many have no idea of the value of health care. You seem to put more value on a corporations profit vs life and death issues when health insurance is just as important as the corporations profit. Life should be of more value than a dollar.

Anger because a President worked at an attempt so people have health insurance and people are fighting because a company will lose a few dollars is something I will never understand. What is more important a person's life or a business' profits?

I could respect someone that asked why a company like Pizza Hut cannot afford to give employees health insurance. These are wealthy business men and you are upset because a minimum wage employee is required to have health insurance? So you place more value and respect the business policy more than yourself and that minimum wage parent trying to care for her children?

I think you are placing your sympathy at the wrong door.

This post was edited by marquest on Fri, Mar 29, 13 at 11:07


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

You continue to *forget* that none of these hypothetical low-wage employees have health insurance now, and they will in the future - for themselves and their families.

That's worth a lot more than losing a few hours a week.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"You continue to *forget* that none of these hypothetical low-wage employees have health insurance now, and they will in the future - for themselves and their families."

David, Those aren't "hypothetical" low wage earners. They are real people. And far from "forgetting" that they don't have insurance, I have reminded posters here that many more are now without full time work...and they STILL don't have insurance!

Not being a liberal, I can think of no reason to assume people who could not afford insurance before their hours were cut, will "have it" in the future. They have to pay for it. Even with government subsidies to help with the cost, paying the fine may well be more attractive to some folks than spending money on a "potential" need. For those struggling with fewer hours of work, their reduced income will make it a lot harder to afford the things their families need right now. I would not assume Obamacare is going to be their priority.

FTA: "...the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter."

Can't wait to see what the REAL costs are going to be. What a disappointment for all those people counting on "affordable care" from Democrats.

Here's more good news, FTA: The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.

Here is a link that might be useful: Affordable Care?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Bad news, Nik. But! Good informaiton. I wish, as much as you wish, everyone wishes, that this ACA looked just ducky. But unfortunately, it's not looking that way. I would just love to hear "I told you so" from the ACA supporters when all the smoke clears, I sincerely hope that's the case. It would give me no pleasure, as I am sure it will give no one else who doesn't believe in this plan any pleasure, to be one of the people saying "I told you so".

More info from sources better informed than I:

"Even the law’s designers admit that it will raise premiums. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Economics Professor Jonathan Gruber, one of Obamacare’s chief architects, estimated that premiums in Wisconsin would rise by about 30 percent by 2016 following implementation of the law. Most of the Badger State’s individual insurance market will see an even larger increase, averaging about 41 percent.

Obamacare’s defenders typically respond that the law’s subsidies will decrease what people actually pay out-of-pocket for insurance.

But that’s not always the case. Many individuals will still pay more even after they receive the generous subsidies to which the law entitles them. According to a report conducted by Gruber, 59 percent of the individual market will end up paying more after taking the subsidies into account. The average increase? Nearly a third.

These premium hikes will hit young people hardest. As The New York Times reported in October, insurers and health policy wonks are warning that the young will “face higher premiums because of a provision that limits how much rates can vary based on a person’s age.”

Typically, insurers charge older individuals more because they have higher average health costs. But because Obamacare includes a “community rating” provision that restricts how much insurers can charge people of different ages, the young will end up paying more ��" essentially subsidizing the coverage of older individuals who require more expensive care.

These won’t be small increases. Health insurance expert Bob Laszewski has said that young adults should expect their premiums to double thanks to Obamacare’s rules.

The law will make insurance more expensive for everyone else by saddling it with expensive mandates. Obamacare tasks states with figuring out which health benefits are “essential” and thus mandatory for insurers.

The result? Furious lobbying by every healthcare group, from acupuncturists to chiropractors to fertility specialists, all of whom want to make sure that coverage of their services is required for all policies issued in the state. The more coverage mandates there are, the higher premiums rise. Indeed, benefit mandates can add as much as 50 percent to the cost of insurance.

As President Obama’s second term unfolds, few ��" if any ��" families will see the $2,500 in health insurance savings he promised four years ago. The White House is now clinging to the hope that premiums won’t rise quite as fast as they have in the past.

In other words, health insurance costs are going up. And for that, you can thank Obamacare"

Here is a link that might be useful: More Disconcerting Projections


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"You continue to *forget* that none of these hypothetical low-wage employees have health insurance now, and they will in the future - for themselves and their families."
David, Those aren't "hypothetical" low wage earners. They are real people. And far from "forgetting" that they don't have insurance, I have reminded posters here that many more are now without full time work...and they STILL don't have insurance!

Huh? Beginning in October, there will be insurance exchanges where individuals and small businesses will be able to purchase insurance polices at the same rates as group insurance. And guess what!!!! If you can't afford it, the taxes imposed under Obamacare will subsidize your insurance purchase!!! See link if you qualify for a subsidy!!!

Now, some states, not surprisingly with Republican governors and legislatures, are refusing to expand Medicaid under Obamacare, which meant that even people who were laid off and had no income could get insurance, but hey, thats not Obama's fault, thats the states' fault, since its so heavily subsidized from the feds.

And, surprisingly, some of these Republican governors are realizing that if they deny hundreds of thousands of poor people health insurance for political reasons, they might get voted out. See Florida for prize example.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to see insurance subsidies


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"If you can't afford it, the taxes imposed under Obamacare will subsidize your insurance purchase!!!"

Yeah! And the CBO estimates a Bronze policy for an individual will cost $4,500-$5,000 for one year!!!

And a Bronze policy will run $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016!!! And costs will go UP every year!

Elvis, I cannot WAIT to see the Democrat's math on those subsidies. What could possibly go wrong???

LMAO!!!


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Would be interested in your source....I'm sure it's accurate but I can't seem to find it.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

I'd love to see that source as well. From the link I posted immediately above:

"Plug in your family salary... I used age of 46.... family of four... Higher priced plans.

$30,000 in income: Medicaid: cost ZIP

$38,000 in income: $16,032 tax credit,...Cost of health premium $1,734

$44,000 in income: $15,240 tax credit.....Cost of health premium $2,526

$88,000 in in come: $9,406 tax credit....Cost of health premium $8,360

$90,000 in income : $9,216 tax credit...Cost of health premium $8,550

$93,000in income: $8,931 tax credit.... Cost of health premium: $8,835

$94,000 in income: ZERO tax credit.... Cost of health premium: $17,766 end quote

I do see a problem - at each of these steps, a family can take a hit if they earn just a bit more than the step below - this needs work so that its a smoother transition up the income ladder.

But hey, for those of us who have to buy individual policies on the open market, these rates and subsidies are a Godsend.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Would be interested in your source....I'm sure it's accurate but I can't seem to find it."

Chase,

It's from the "affordable care" link I posted above. I've read claims elsewhere that family coverage could be more like $20,000, not $12,000. Maybe that higher figure is the most recent...Anyway, I would love to know how many thousands of tax dollars government will need to subsidize a typical family, and how many thousands of dollars the family will have to come up with in addition to the subsidy.

Recently, Democrat Ron Wyden said the added cost for dependents may price some families out of the market. Boy is David going to be disappointed! Maybe Wyden knows something about the size of those subsidies the rest of us, including David, do not.

Wyden says “Without action, millions of hard working Americans are going to be squeezed by the family glitch.” He adds that “Many people will be left with a false choice of taking family coverage through work they can’t afford or struggling to find a better plan in the exchange without a subsidy.”

Democrats probably shouldn't have promised everyone "affordable care" before they did the math. Families mandated to buy insurance they can't afford aren't going to like that. Nor will they like the "option" of transferring money they need to live on, to the IRS as punishment for not buying insurance.

What an amazing plan!


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Gee, Nik, I pay for insurance for my family, and thats why I look at what they say the rates are for a family of four.

Again, this will be a Godsend.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

My goodness Nik have you every had health insurance? Do you know the importance of having health care?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Gee, Nik, I pay for insurance for my family, and thats why I look at what they say the rates are for a family of four."

You figure you can take those numbers to the bank? You don't question how those massive subsidies can possibly be sustained? You don't see any consequences to our economy from the massive taxes needed to pay for those subsidies? Sheesh, David. You must be an extremely easy going guy if you see nothing but a health care "Godsend" in your future.

Ron Wyden sees uninsured Americans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------
Check out these numbers:

93,000in income: $8,931 tax credit.... Cost of health premium: $8,835

$94,000 in income: ZERO tax credit.... Cost of health premium: $17,766 end quote.

Democrats have lost their minds.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

You seem completely oblivious to what an insurance policy for an individual family of four costs now. And subsequently, don't give a rip that they can't afford it, unless its some massive deductible, which means economic catastrophe if anyone in that family gets really sick.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Nik I ask again. Have you ever had Health Insurance? Do you know the value of Health Care?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Nik I ask again. Have you ever had Health Insurance? Yep.

Do you know the value of Health Care?"

Absolutely. Health care for the uninsured requires good stewardship of our resources on the part of our electeds.

Responsible stewardship means that when we empower them to pass legislation, we expect them to read it first. They cannot preserve what works, and direct resources to fixing that which does not if they're ignorant of what their own legislation requires.

That's why it's falling apart. Democrats provided every vote for the unpopular legislation they passed in the middle of the night without bothering to read it.

What could possibly go wrong?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Okay Nik now we are getting somewhere.

Do you think Republicans can read? The secret bill that you speak about is a fairy tale. Lets live in the reality. I have more respect for you as one that understand that all the law makers had a opportunity to read the bill. What you are saying is a bobble head "someone told me that lie" line and I will repeat the line.

Let me remind you why I know it is a line feed to those that do not think. Do you remember them posting it online? Do you remember the Republicans running around with the bill saying how many pages was in the bill? If they had the time to count the pages they could have read the bill. So do not make yourself look ridiculous. Let them walk down that dumb road alone.

Something needed to be done. If you had insurance I assume you were paying more and more each year. I understand people that never had to pay because they have lived their life on government insurance or had husbands that paid and they do not have an idea of the cost. That is just ignorance of the process and cost.

Are you aware this was a Republican developed insurance plan and it is Romney Care? The Democrats did not just think this up. That could be why it is so objectionable to you.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"Are you aware this was a Republican developed insurance plan..."

False. Romneycare was bipartisan, not single party legislation. It is a STATE program created by elected leaders from BOTH parties in Massachusetts. Romneycare was developed by and for the people of Massachusetts, fills only 70 pages, and affects less than 7 million people.

Obamacare is over 2,000 pages of unpopular FEDERAL legislation most people did not want. Democrats cooked up all by themselves and now they own it. They didn't even read it before they imposed it upon all 310 million of us in the middle of the night.

The unintended consequences are beginning to pop up. It's not like they didn't know they were going against the will of the people. They were warned not to pass Obamacare, but they did it anyway. As their unsustainable "creation" slips closer to the cr@pper, Democrats are trying to blame it on Romney!


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

What party is the Supreme Court?


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

"What party is the Supreme Court?"

Why, they are apolitical. The fact that Dems want this particular justice appointed and Reps don't, and vice versa, is of no significance.

I'm surprised you didn't know that.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

Yes, Justice Alito is like totally apolitical, "Neutral Sammy", they call him.

Justice Thomas that way too, just don't look at what his wife does for a living.

Its just a coincidence that the court always splits the way it does between the same conservative and liberal judges.


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RE: Documentary: The Waiting Room

David; you noticed that too. ;-)


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