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George Zimmerman Part II

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 14:48

Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 10:03

Well if you do not care enough, excuse me for apologizing. Was just trying to be courteous, guess I wasted my time.

*

Ohiomom, no need to be so sensitive.

Here is what I said to you when you indicated your comment was in reference to one above mine, that was no longer there anymore, that I never saw, and so assumed it was in response to my post.

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 9:43

"Thanks for the explanation of the reference to your comment, Ohiomom."

The fact that I said I didn't care enough to scroll back and look for any other post (before Chase expounded on what happened) has nothing to do with you "apologizing (? I don't recall an apology, and none would be needed or expected anyway) should in no way elicit what I am reading into your post.

I THANKED for you the explanation, for goodness' sake.

I don't even want to know who said what in the post that was removed or who it was said about.

There's way too much name calling and miscommunication around here these days, I'll have to check if mercury is in retrograde.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 14:52

This is ridiculous all these "personal" threads being started ... I am not overly sensitive, hysterical or any of the other adjectives you and others want to use.

Big Papi posted some PERSONAL vile comments to a woman poster and that is why I posted what I did. When I saw what you wrote I was, mistakenly, trying to clear up the misunderstanding.

You want to start a thread to slam me ... have fun darlin.


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Hello? hello? Hello?

For God's sake, it's a thread to make you understand that I THANKED you, there was no need to be defensive with your second post.

This is ridiculous.

The skin is getting too thin around here.

You'll know if I slam you, you won't have to guess at it.

It's not my style, though, Ohiomom, and I have no reason to slam you anyway.

I give up.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Why is there a new thread about something between two posters. Couldn't you have written a private email, demi?

This is getting ridiculous.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I have no desire to start privately emailing forum members, dockside. If there had been room on the other thread, I doubt you'd bother to have posted.

You can move along--it doesn't have to stay at the top, or you can continue the discussion or any discussion.

I couldn't care less.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 15:12

You started a new thread for this? Good grief!


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

And titled it "George Zimmerman Part II"?

Thin skinned, ridiculous, transparant.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 26, 12 at 15:27

Yawn


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Get a life

Remember this.

In good faith, I was going out of my way to point out to Ohiomom that I had thanked her and there was no reason for her thinking she had wasted her time, as she said, in explaining herself.

And I get these hateful smartmouth comments that add nothing, and you seem so outdone that you opened a thread and what? What? What?

A wasted click? A chance to be mean to demi who was trying to do good?

Yes, ridiculous is correct.


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Why is everybody always picking on me?

Transparent.

I'm outta this thread, I suggest everyone else do the same.


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Pathetic

Transparent?

My eye.

Paranoid is accurate.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I'm outta here as well. Let it die.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

This reminds me of when my little boys were small. One was about four and the other was about 5 1/2.

Naturally the four yr old was slower than the other but he could keep an arguement about nothing going for days.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Demi maybe you have a whole new future at Elizabeth Arden you could come up with a personal care line for thin skin


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Great suggestion, Labrea.

As soon as Obama is out of office, I will consider starting a business, but not before I sell him a case.

;)


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Hey Demi,

Thank you for starting a new thread. Lots of new information coming out. The more we can learn, the better.

I understand the New Black Panthers (the thugs Eric Holder wouldn't prosecute for white voter intimidation) put a bounty on George Zimmerman's head. They called upon 5,000 black guys to kidnap an American citizen and deliver him to them. That strikes me as something the DOJ and the president should have slapped down the minute it hit the airwaves.

Meanwhile Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are busy whipping up the crowds, while Mr. Zimmerman and family are in hiding for their lives.

The MSM rushed to paint Trayvon's death as a "white on black" crime. At least one witness account tells a different story, and suggests Zimmerman may not be the trigger happy vigilante that has been portrayed. I just hope that no one else dies while the investigation continues. Remembering that the facts in the Tawana Brawley case and the Duke Lacrosse case were far different from initial MSM reports, I am not really surprised to see those same prejudices arise again before the facts are in.

Here is a link that might be useful: Avoiding Mob Mentality


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Nik, it will be interesting to see if the New Black Panthers will be allowed to confront Zimmerman as a threat to the community using the Stand Your Ground law. As described by you and a few other vigilante apologists, Florida shoot first and ask questions later laws apparently allow anyone to pursue "suspicious" people using any criteria (fashion?) and met out justice without the permission of the police. Is this what you envisioned or did you think it would just be used to shoot down black teens.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Coming next will be a demonstration, on FOX, about how you can twist a package of Skittles into a lethal weapon.

I mean, everybody already knows what a 16 oz bottle of iced tea in the hands of an murderous black-skinned expert can do. Some call it the "Uzi of the Ghetto"


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Yes, Nik, there appears to be more to this story than first assumed, as I noted we might withhold complete judgment until more facts were avaiable.

Tawana Brawley and the Duke LaCrosse team are indeed two instances of the media and the public wrongly crucifying someone before facts were known, these people that call for the death or punishment of someone prior to the facts being known--as the bounty on Zimmerman--- are exactly the same as the lynch mobs that hung black people in the last century.

Not one bit different.

And we don't ever hear apologies, do we?

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the people that interject themselves into situations, use the unfortunate deaths of people to advance their own agendas and they don't care about the facts or judgment.

I do hope the the TRUTH about the death of this young man is discovered and that it will be soon.

In the meantime, the marches for and canonization of the victim and the defense and canonization of the shooter from the other side, are only speculation.

Justice will be served, I hope.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the people that interject themselves into situations, use the unfortunate deaths of people to advance their own agendas and they don't care about the facts or judgment.

demi, I completely agree. I told DH when Sharpton left to go to Florida that he wasn't helping anything at all. He has zero credibility, IMO, when it comes to something like this. Same for Jackson. It appears that they are just trying to get more facetime on TV. That may be wrong, and I do believe they have legitimate feelings re this murder (and I call it what it is - murder). But, they aren't the best people to be out in front of it.

If anyone saw Bill Maher Friday night, he had a guest, a black columnist from the NYT, who talked about being a black man in today's society. Having to think every minute you are in public about how you are walking, moving, holding your body in a certain way, so that you are not perceived as someone that another person would attack or arrest. It really must be awful and I believe it is true. I heard a man talk about how a black person told him that he, every waking moment, is confronted with the fact that he is "different" and that he must conduct himself accordingly. What a burden it must be to not just be yourself but have to examine everything you do and say so as to not upset someone that might do you harm.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

More news from ABC. The Sanford Police Dept. chief investigator felt that Zimmerman should have been arrested for manslaughter but he was overruled by the county prosecutor.

Here is a link that might be useful: At least it should be manslaughter


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Coming next will be a demonstration, on FOX, about how you can twist a package of Skittles into a lethal weapon.
I mean, everybody already knows what a 16 oz bottle of iced tea in the hands of an murderous black-skinned expert can do. Some call it the "Uzi of the Ghetto""

Skittles and iced tea? Amateur!! Now... mentos and a bottle of coke I could understand...

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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Oops

The lead (not chief) investigator was overruled by the Florida AG. (I was recalling from a not-very-good memory when I wrote the prior post). Lead investigator didn't think Zimmerman's statement was credible.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 28, 12 at 1:14

Notice how that eruption looks like a pole with a big blonde wig on top? That's because it's Diet Coke.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I'm sure if you throw a bag of skittles hard enough they might reach velocity to make a mark. Don't even get me started on the lethality of twizzlers.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

At least Hashim Nzinga, the New Black Panther Party thug who called for the kidnapping of George Zimmerman is behind bars on a weapons charge.

On another front, reporter Rene Stutzman sorts out a few rumors that understandably have a lot of folks riled up, starting with this one.

FTA: "Statement: The Volusia County Medical Examiner refused to release Trayvon's body to his family for three days, an unusually long wait.

Not true, according to the medical examiner. It picked up the body at the scene just after 10 p.m. Feb. 26 and notified a Fort Lauderdale funeral home 39 hours later that the body was ready. The funeral home, Roy Mizell and Kurtz, did not pick up the body for an additional 24 hours, the medical examiner reported."

Story linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Orlando Sentinal


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Sooooo, what is being said is that it may be ok for Zimmerman to take out someone that he felt was threatning his life.....

But it's NOT ok for that same someone to turn on Zimmerman who has been following him with a gun for some time, comes up to him on the street and.....well, we don't know the rest of it, do we!!!

How many people in the same position would think that Zimmerman could possibily be a danger? I am guessing that just about everyone would be worried a bit, and if they had a chance, would probably take a swing at him.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

nik,

The fact that the Trayvon's parents, even after repeated calls to the SPD, were not told for at least 36 hours that their son was dead is what is so outrageous. It's not as tho' the PD couldn't ID him (they had his cell phone). It's not as tho' the PD couldn't connect the dots that a black teen was lying in their morgue and parents were calling about a missing black teen. It's about total incompetence or lack of caring that this happened - not about how long it took them to release his body to his family.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

No way this incident should be covered by SYG. Zimmerman initiated the incident by following this kid. I've also heard the reports that multiple witnesses independently reported the kid came back after him once he turned to stop following. Doesn't matter. One other thing-- that pic of Travon is from several years ago, too. Shown to make him look alot more innocent. However, there's another pic being distributed showing a black kid dragging his pants, looking more like a gangster, siuggesting that this is Travon today. That's not even him, and was originally sent out by Stormfront.

Bottom line-- the media ought to stay right the hell out of it, and let justice do its thing, rather than doing their best, as they always do of trying to muddy the waters.

back to lurking


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Bill, why are you lurking?

Media sucks but if it weren't for a free press, this incident would be swept under the rug and business as usual.

Maybe, just maybe there will be justice but certainly no peace for the family.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Bill...."a lot more innocent"

Honestly, what does that even mean?

In what way was he NOT innocent in this interaction?

"A lot more innocent" implies to me that you think that he was "less" innocent - somehow a little bit guilty. Please correct me if I'm reading something that you haven't meant to imply, but your word choice does seem to imply that somehow there was guilt attached to this kid.

This is what makes me sad. The kid is dead, many in here are attempting to apply a kind of collusion by that kid in his own death when he was a 17 year old minor buying a bag of candy,

Why do I keep repeating that he was buying a bag of candy? Because it's what kids do. It indicates his mindset.

He was not lurking the neighborhood, nor was he buying, selling or holding drugs or suspicious in any way.

He was NOT, AFTER ALL, WHAT Z THOUGHT HIM TO BE AND TOLD THE POLICE HE WAS: SUSPICIOUS.

Why the resistence to this?

He was a neighborhood kid who walked to the store and bought a bag of candy - something kids love to do and do every single evening, my own kid did it from time to time.

Something that kids should be ABLE to do with safety and without being stalked and shot by an armed up man out ACTIVELY looking for suspicious people.

Why do so many people have SO MUCH trouble with this idea? Why do so many people in here seem to HAVE to think that oh, there is more to this "innocent" Trayvon than meets the eye?

We all already know Z's mindset.

So why the odd insistence?

Do none of you see how freaky in thinking that is? You seem to WANT that kid to have done something wrong that lead to his death. You seem to insist upon it.

It's flat freaky that we have theads upon threads arguing the point of the kids attached guilt to motives and actions.

I believe there are would be some VERY disappointed people if, in fact, Z is found to have shot that kid for no reasonable reason.

I believe that for as long as they live, they flat not accept that Trayvon was an innocent kid - I believe that, because of what has been said in these threads, there will be some that will be positive down to their dark little hearts that the Trayvon somehow deserved what he got.

God help your kids/grandkids if these circumstances ever take place with one of them. Now you know EXACTLY how some people would think, regarding your innocent, underage kid who simply walked to the store for a bag of candy and ended up shot to death.

Now you know.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Mylab: "I believe there would be some VERY disappointed people if, in fact, Z is found to have shot that kid for no reasonable reason."

Of COURSE there will be, and I would be one of them. I'm disappointed about all of it, including the rush to judgment of either of these two. I'm very disappointed that Trayvon is shot, I'm disappointed that Zimmerman shot him, for WHATEVER reason. I'm disappointed that the scene of the incident was not processed properly, all of it.

"We all already know Z's mindset."

You DO? You KNOW that? ALL of you? Well then, who needs any evidence. Hang the man--quick.

If you are wrong, you can just apologize, like Mr. Spike Lee. That didn't turn out very well.

If you're right, it will be a hollow victory, won't it?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Black guy in hoody look a less innocent a than school picture & we call that what?
What!

Here is a link that might be useful: Mink Stole great scene


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Where did I say to hang Z? I said he already showed his mindset, one you can't argue.

He armed up. He left home crusing for suspicious people roaming his neighborhood. He found one. He reported it to the police. He disregarded the police instruction and LEFT his car still armed up, confronted the non-suspicious after all Trayvon after the police instructed him NOT to. Less than five minutes later, Trayvon was dead. Not Z. Trayvon.

If you are unable to process that information as it is, then I can't help you Elvis.

Trayvon didn't do one single thing wrong - which equals innocence in this case by the way - and needing to see a picture of what Trayvon looked like on the day he died can not help you process that piece of information either, Elvis

By the way, what was that with odd focus on what Trayvon LOOKED like physically on the day he died?

..........while waking home after buying himself a bag of candy.

Would what he looked like physically opposed to what his picture in the newspaper looked like somehow make him less innocent and more guilty in participating in his own death?

That picture thing you got hung up on - what was THAT all about anyway, Elvis?


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Something to ponder -

I wonder what this thread would look like if the two people and their positions had been EXACTLY reversed in this case, except for one single fact, of course: that Trayvon was old enough, finally, to get a license to carry -


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I don't know how recent Trayvon's picture was but Zimmerman's is a MUG shot because he has a criminal record assaulting a girlfriend and a police officer. Then he appointed him self a vigilante with a loaded gun and blew away a kid taking an intermission break from a game on TV to go to the store and buy candy and a drink. They autopsied the kid to see if drugs or alcohol was present and did NOT test the killer. He looked fine to me in the police video, not a speck of blood on his clothes and he walked briskly. This has turned into another political battle . The Right dismissing it and the left outraged.

ON Rock Center tonight , about five blacks who work there including Lester Holt(who I didn't know was black) said how people of their race get thru life. They are followed in stores by security. One guy said if he goes into a drug store, he can't leave empty handed because it will be perceived he stole something so he always buys something. and keeps his hands in the open. THESE are black professionals.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Mylab, as far as I am concerned you don't get it, and vice versa.

My whole rap can be summed up with some handy cliches:

You can't judge a book by its cover.
Don't rush to judgment.
Innocent till proven guilty. And on and on.

That's all I have to say about that.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Be careful what you announce in your rap as words you embrace. Someday another incident will almost certainly happen, one which might not quite meets your standards for sympathy to the shooter and finger pointing (what about that picture?) to the dead person - and then your words will most certainly be reflected back to you here in Hot Topics, Elvis.

All of us, conservatives and liberals, tend to remember words that have been said in this forum and question their truth when later there exists a question of actual sincerity.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Elvis, if he is not arrested and charged there is no chance to prove innocence, right? Do you understand that's is all we're saying? The rush to judgment is not in the doubts expressed in this forum or even public opinion but clearly in the direction of the Sanford authorities finding him innocent before getting all the facts. I don't understand why this simple fact is so hard for you and BP to understand. Both of you are twisting our words.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Because it is my opinion that with Elvis, Big PP and maybe others I don't know - this thread really no longewr, at all, has really nothing at all to do with this terrible incident KT. Nothing at all , and I can't imagine why I keep re-engaging with them regarding the subject.

Probably because a young person died and there is such a callous disregard for innocence of his actions that night.

But..... this conversation has NOTHING to do with Z or Trayvon, not anymore, of that I'm quite sure.

But I'm aware that it is time for me to quit re-engaging in this thread, I'm fully aware of that and it's a fault of mine I kept coming back to it.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I wonder what this thread would look like if the two people and their positions had been EXACTLY reversed in this case, except for one single fact, of course: that Trayvon was old enough, finally, to get a license to carry -

This is the pseudointellectual side of racism denial in this country. It is a false and really egregious attempt to equate racism with reverse racism. It is a sorry attempt to deny the history of racism spaning over 200 years and to obfuscate the current state of racism, segregation, and racial intolerance in this country.
These are the facts. EVERY day, black tens are racially profiled by cops and arrested and convicted in high numbers..even disproportionate numbers for their offenses.
We still have racial segregation in our cities and suburbs, just like the black neighborhood that Trayvon lived in and many of the overwhelming,y white suburbs we are all familiar with. Racist attitudes still exist at various levels in people even though they deny it or try to rationalize it. The attept to dra a false equivalence, as though white eens are being puled over and arrested by black cops in high numbers, or are seen as being suscpicious as they walk in black neighborhoods, is bizarre.
No offense to the posters who have tried this out, because it is a comon tactic, most recently being promulgated by Joe Scarborough, a dispicable and arrogant man.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Bill...."a lot more innocent"
Honestly, what does that even mean?

Mylab-- use the WHOLE line I typed-- Shown to make him look alot more innocent. What does that mean? More people would be likely to feel for a young clean cut boy who got cut down in the prime of his life. Just as the other extreme-- people being less likely to feel for a gangsta wannabe-- someone who doesn't look quite as innocent.

Now, from the sound of your post, I'm about to get crucified. Screw it. I don't give a frig. Regardless of HOW the media spins this, in EITHER direction, Zimmerman deserves to be hung. I don't believe for a second that this kid was any choir boy, but I also don't believe he did anything that warranted him losing his life.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Well, Bill, asking what Martin really looked like sure brought down the wrath of the righteous on me.

But tempering it with the statement that Zimmerman deserves to be hung ought to smooth things over. I thought you were all for waiting for the facts?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I am. But going by what I've heard so far, there's no way in hell this guy could qualify for protection under Stand Your Ground. As far as I can see, the facts pretty much ARE in. This guy was a Barney Fife wannabe, who couldn't make the grade. So now, he decides to get some semblance of authority, being on the neighborhood watch, gets himself a gun because of course that's where ALL respect for the po-po comes from (moron), and now, HE'S the one to respect. JAJ looking for trouble. Now it's a matter of Zimmerman trying to muddy the waters. Too much to deny, especially with the video.

As for tempering it with ANYTHING, I meant what I said. I don't give a crap WHAT people think of my opinion. I just want to make sure they get it straight what my opinion IS before they go off half cocked.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Thanks for responding, Bill. I hear what you are saying.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Just an aside, but when I lived over-seas in some high crime communities (not war zones) the residents would organize a neighborhood watch - which involved driving around a couple of armed police all night, using your car, because the police didn't have enough vehicles. We took turns, usually one night a month.

There were a couple of neighbors who were pretty much what Bill describes above - wanna be tough guys who would pack guns and fire away at suspected thieves fleeing down the street. Then brag about it the next 23 times you met them.

/another reason those places all have high wall fences - stray bullets.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I agree that the facts are pretty much in on this case.
The law is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. With that standard in mind, I have given Zimmerman a strong presumption of innocence.
However, I have now listened to HIS voice on the 911 tapes. He calls Tray a f-ing coon and states that he is probably doing drugs or something. Zimmerman, with a loded pistol, chooses to follow Tray despite being advised on that 911 tape by the police dispatcher not to. It does not matter what Trayvon did in his defense, including trying to disarm this nutcase, that scenario is outside the range of of believability. Just listen to the sequence on that tape of screaming followed almost immediately by a single shot. It is clear that there was no warning before that shot, no threatening words spoken by Trayvon as Zimmerman has alleged, and no time for Zimmerman to lose his weapon, reacquire it, and shoot Travon.

So yes, those were Trayvons screams...screams of utter terror by a teenage boy who could have been your son, not just President Obamas or another black man. Zimmerman pointed a gun at Trayvon knowing the police were en route, and chose to kill him in cold blood.

There are no reasonable alternative explanations that fit into the time line as we know it. There is also no reasonable claim of self defense by an assailant who stalked an unarmed teen with a weapon. The latest I heard from Zimmerman's camp is this...that Zimmerman reported to police that Trayvon told him he was going to die. Was that before or after Zimmerman pointed his weapon at him?

It is my opinion that Zimmerman is guilty of Manslaughter. Give this nut case life in prison. There are aggravating circumstances with hbis racial comments and because he and his family and Joe Oliver have put our country through a very divisive debate. We have been subjected to lies upon lies and a media blitz filled with preposterous theories of self defense.

The racial aspect could have been moderated with an arrest and a trial. It is unfortunate that the Right and their media voices like Geraldo and Piers Morgan have chosen to ignore the obvious. It appears as though they want this sensationalized like the grocery aisle rag that Morgan used to work for would do. Yes, they would like to put us through another OJ Simpson trial and media charade.
Zimmerman is guilty, and the more we hear these ridiculous defense theories the more upset the African American community will become...and rightfully so.
Don't blame the black community for this. Listen to them.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

If the shooter had a criminal rcord, how could he have a license to carry a weapon?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Good question. If he was carrying out in the open (don't know if he was or not), he wouldn't NEED a license. But his right to even OWN a gun should've been rescinded due to his being convicted of a violent offense-- even if it was a misdemeanor.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Good morning, Heri (and all readers).

Heri, I wish your post stopped right after "I have given Zimmerman a strong presumption of innocence."

IMO it's the other presumptions stated on this thread that are the problem. The rhetoric is so inflammatory at times that reason goes right out the window and discussion is fruitless. Not pointless, but fruitless.

Despite indications that may seem contrary here and there, I think we all get it. By now I think we can safely assume that the posters have heard the stuff the media is telling us, and we're hearing each other. But we still aren't in a position to judge any of it. We can all think what we will, and have our own theories based on what we've been told or shown on TV or the internet, but the fact remains that we really don't know.

Like the Casey Anthony or OJ Simpson cases, everyone has a theory, but the one left holding the bag is the live one.

I think it's a really good thing this case got big attention instead of being swept under the rug. That can't happen now, so good. But no amount of public opinion should affect the outcome of this situation. That WOULD be lynch mob mentality by the ones who want to see Zimmerman lynched. I don't believe we'll find anyone who has posted here that believes that Zimmerman has no responsibility for his actions.

This is obviously a very, very serious situation. This isn't one of those times one can say "never mind" if down the road they are proven mistaken in their assumptions, no matter how righteous their intentions in their hearts.

IMO Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. had it right when he said that:

"An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. The time is always right to do the right thing."

So let's do the right thing. Let's wait and see. Let's not tear each other up.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Sun, Apr 1, 12 at 8:15

Good question. If he was carrying out in the open (don't know if he was or not), he wouldn't NEED a license"

No open Carry in Florida, therefore he was carrying concealed.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Although arrested several times and charged once or twice, I don't believe he was ever convicted of a crime.

Charges were dropped


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Wonder how this would have gone if Trevor's dad was a judge.

Similar circumstance in Denver recently where the cops beat up a kid, caught on video tape, his word against theirs so no charges, but it turned out the kid's dad was a cop in another town. And so......... after a few months of wrangling, the cops get charged.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

So no one has anything to say about my post? No comment?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Sorry Elvis was this what you were looking for: it was Gandhi not MLK who said that.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Things aren't looking up for Zimmerman.

Before George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin on February 26, a 911 call recorded the voice of someone screaming. Whether that person was Martin or Zimmerman -- who police say claimed he was attacked by Martin before the fatal incident -- has been an open question since the calls were released by the Sanford, Florida police department.

The Orlando Sentinel consulted two voice experts to try to settle the debate, and both came to the same conclusion: The cries could not have come from George Zimmerman.

The voice analysis is the latest piece of information to cast doubt on the narrative, advanced by Zimmerman and his family, that the Neighborhood Watch volunteer was attacked by 17-year-old Travyon Martin. A police video this week showed no blood or bruises on Zimmerman in the aftermath of the incident, while Martin's funeral director said he saw no signs of a struggle on the teen's body.

Here is a link that might be useful: Voice Experts Claim Teen's Cries, Not Zimmerman's, Can Be Heard On 911 Call


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

With all this information in the news, selecting a jury will be difficult if Zimmerman is charged. Maybe in Fargo?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I wouldn't give Zimmerman's problems to a monkey on a rock. ( Letterman's favorite saying). If and when he goes to jail, he will be a marked man by those who aren't listening to the NON violent talk from Jesse Jackson and others.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Something is very fishy here. You don't normally find that a high ranking police officer puts himself on leave of absence when there has been a shooting.

Since it was done this time, I think we can assume that there was pressure to do something.

It's not a good idea to assume things, but in this case, the circumstances are too unusual to ignore the chance of outside pressure.

White? Black? Z's father a retired judge? your guess is as good as mine.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

elvis ssaidd;
So no one has anything to say about my post? No comment?

I think you directed part of that to me, i.e., the innocent 'til prven guilty thing.

I was actually agreeing with Bill V. to the extent that he said that we have a lot of facts already and that we are free to make our own Judgments.

Most of us believe the facts AT LEAST warranted an arrest and further investigation, not a summary dismissal/acquittal based upon self defense, and what might have been sosme improper pressure to release the assailant.

There may be questions about who screamed or how far away Zimmerman was when he shot and killed Trayvon, but none of that would change the facts that we already know from the 911 tapes. They are recorded admissions by Zimmerman that set the time sequence of what happened, his intention to stalk a black teen, and the fact that it was his gun and his hand in the trigger.

There are no set of circumstances that are believable that would provide Zimmerman with a claim to self defense, even under Florida law. His various stories are preposterous.

As far as some on the Right who want people to back off because Zimmerman is "innocent until proven guily" isn't that absurd, when all anyone, including the NAACP is asking is for justice. Arrest this racist AH self appointed crimedog and bring him to trial.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Thanks, Ink. What, no link?

If you want to get all technical about it, MLK did indeed quote that. He no doubt got it from Gandhi, as he emulated many of Gandhi's ideals.

Gandhi probably got it from Hammurabi's Code (which I assume you learned about in school as I did), although it was not quoted vertabim, I get the drift, and I imagine you do, too.

And Heri, I noted that you agreed with Bill about the innocent til proven guilty aspect, but I wonder about your statement that there are: "some on the Right who want people to back off" until that happens. If it's only people on the Right who say this is the way it should be, what are you saying? Are you saying that no one of the Left feels that way? Then are you the spokesman for the Left, stating that only people (not all, but ONLY) on the Right are, well, right? Because innocent until proven guilty IS right.

Right?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Maybe in Fargo?

A detour from the OP... From Times NewsFeed
"A constitutional error recently discovered shows that North Dakota has never technically fit the requirements for statehood.

John Rolczynski, an 82-year old Grand Forks resident, discovered the error in 1995 and has been been campaigning to fix North Dakota's constitution ever since. The problem lies in the state constitution's omission in requiring the governor and other top officials to take an oath of office. In failing to require these oaths, North Dakota's constitution is at odds with federal requirements established by Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, therefore making statehood illegitimate."

State Sen. Tim Mathern of Fargo has introduced a bill that will correct this oversight.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Actually Elvis your man Jesus already covered that misunderstood old law with his 'turn the other cheek' sermon. As for the other thing, Zimmerman's defense appears to be based on that self defense 'stand your ground' thing so neither the fact that he shot Martin nor his innocence is in dispute. All that remains is for a jury to decide exactly what he is guilty of. What this case has done is stir up a hornets nest regarding the everyday treatment of black people but it would be a shame to make this guy scapegoat for that.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

More bad news for Z. Two forensic voice experts hired by the Orlando Sentinel say that the voice screaming on the 911 call could not possibly be Z. The audio that they studied made a 48% match. To make a positive identification the match needs to be over 90%.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Ink, I gotta know. I know you know, because you stated this as a fact; as Labrea can tell you, it's a good idea to assert whether or not something is only your opinion. So, when Hammurabi explained to you what he really meant about an eye for eye, what did he say?

As for Zimmerman's defense, does he have one? I didn't hear about that. Haven't heard a peep from Zimmerman.

But you're right, it will be up to a jury to decide his guilt or innocence, once he is charged. I can't see how "all that remains is for a jury to decide what he is guilty of", but rather, whether or not he is guilt as charged. He will be charged, I think, because there is culpability, IMO.

I fear that the hornets nest you spoke of will get even worse if the New Black Panthers get to him first.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

As for Zimmerman's defense, does he have one?

Yes. He said that Martin came back and attacked him, jumped on him, broke his nose, and repeatedly slammed his head into the concrete sidewalk, while he, Zimmerman, screamed for help. And so he shot him in self defense.

The arresting cop didn't believe him, but then the prosecuting attorney intervened and they released him, no arrest, because suddenly this was believable.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

If you want to get all technical about it, MLK did indeed quote that. He no doubt got it from Gandhi, as he emulated many of Gandhi's ideals.

Gandhi probably got it from Hammurabi's Code (which I assume you learned about in school as I did), although it was not quoted vertabim, I get the drift, and I imagine you do, too.

Elvis, sometimes I just don't understand what you are talking about. Hammurabi's code is exactly opposite of what Gandhi was saying. Of course, it was not quoted verbatim....it's a totally different concept.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II//

Sorry wrong thread.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

JZ: Sorry; I assumed you all would make that leap. Please don't disappoint me--tell me you're as astute as I give you credit for-- ;)


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Hmmmmmmmmm

"The neighbor is talking for the first time about what he saw on George Zimmerman's face less than 24-hours after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

"I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren't flat, had a bump on them," the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said."

I suppose that Z could have paid the neighbor to say such things, I mean, if you have to believe that Z pursued M and shot him down in cold blood, after he called the police, and knew they were on they were on the way. It couldn't be actually true that M jumped Z, could it?
And oh, by the way, he also had to get the Sanford Police department to file false reports with misleading information in them. I'm sure that the police would go along with this, knowing if they get caught doing so, they stand to go to jail. That Z guy, he's so influential, he suborned the police and the neighbor, who woulda' thunk it?
Lets see........he also, somehow, knew where the entire confrontation would take place, so he visited the eyewitness that saw him being beaten and having his had bounced off the pavement before it all that took place. He even wore a red shirt so as to make him easily identifiable and different for M

Perhaps Z is clairvoyant, maybe he should play the lottery!

""I don't think race is involved at all, because I've seen black, African-American folks come to George's house," he said."

How could this be? Maybe the racist Z is crazy like a fox, knew he was going to have the chance to shoot some black kid at some time in the future, and also knew that people would call him racist, so he brought black kids over to tutor them, thus showing that he wasn't racist and creating an alibi for him. That couldn't be true, could it?

How is it that all this can be true?

Here is a link that might be useful: Z, crazy like a fox


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RE: More Info on the Martin Shooting

You do realize that you will be ridiculed for this, BP? There are those who call Fox News "faux news".

I don't believe hardly anything on any news service anyway (I read 1984, doncha know). But! If this is reported on any of the "lame stream media" anytime soon, I'll be surprised...


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

That certainly doesn't match with the video of him walking into the police station 30 minutes after the incident.....however I'm sure there is a logical explanation.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Could also be that Zimmerman went home and stuck a few bandages on his head and was walking around with them.

You know, to make his story look better. Since he wasn't bandaged in any of the police videos.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I fear that the hornets nest you spoke of will get even worse if the New Black Panthers get to him first.

More ugly racial profiling.
The "new black panthers' call for Zimmerman's arrest just like most other black people and sensible people are calling for.

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply until charges are brought. That is a diversion that has been promoted by the right Wing media and their sheeple.

As far as the alleged injuries and bandages, did the fact that Trayvon stood his ground against a stalking nutjob
provide Zimmerman with the right to shoot him ?
Didn't Tray have a right to defend himself and even try to disarm this nutjob?

Regarding the cries for help on the tape recording,,,they are almost immediately followed by a single gunshot....why no verbal warning before killing Trayvon? What about somethimg like "stick your hands up" or get down on the ground I have a gun?"

If Zimmerman's story was that Trayvon was trying to disarm this nutjob, where is the audio evidence of that? I just hear screaming. audio experts have examined the tapes. Dod they hear any dialog between the two? Screaming can only be one of two things, Zimmerman was getting his azz kicked, gut angry (which he has a history of) and decided to kill Trayvon.... or Zimmerman pointed his gun at at Trayvon who screamed for mercy before being killed. Both are manslaughter....the use of deadly force without authority or necessity. And keep in mind, Zimmerman knew police were on the way.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Zimmerman looked just fine and walked sprightly at the police station. He probably went home and put on the bandages. The voice experts said it wasn't Zimmerman crying for help which means it was Tray.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 2, 12 at 3:10

Zimmerman looked just fine and walked sprightly at the police station. He probably went home and put on the bandages. The voice experts said it wasn't Zimmerman crying for help which means it was Tray."

Oh my.......(snort)

"Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows "what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman's head.""

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-enhanced-video-040212_1_reporter-matt-gutman-abc-news-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-zimmerman

"NBC disclosed today that it will be launching an internal investigation into a segment about the Trayvon Martin case that appeared on the Today show, in which a call between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher prior to Martin's death was edited in such a way that it portrays Zimmerman as a racial profiler."

http://www.nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/nbc-investigating-segment-on-zimmerman-call.html?imw=Y

I guess the facts don't match the agenda.

The MSM is gonna make abject fools out of all of you.

Did I mention that I'm going to really enjoy this?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

BP..You can always go visit Zimmerman in jail where he belongs. You're the one who will end up with egg on his face. How's your GOP candidate doing, btw?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

It is beyond me too understand how anyone can be "enjoying" this.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

How's your GOP candidate doing, btw?

What's that got to do with ANY of this?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Because BP is twisted.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Bill, it was part of a discussion with BP a while back. One in which he said how much he was going to enjoy watching the left when Gingrich won the the nomination. The point being that one didn't go so well for BP and either will this.

BTW, I appreciated your comments on this tragedy. Simple and to the point and I believe right on.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Did I mention that I'm going to really enjoy this?

Big Papi, did anyone every tell you that you may have a sick mind? or that you have a sick and twisted thought process on what is and isn't enjoyable?

It is beyond me too understand how anyone can be "enjoying" this.

Only a sick and twisted mind can think this way. Take the statement from whence it came.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I don't want to come across as defending Big Papi's views generally but when he says "I'm going to really enjoy this" he means when the truth comes out and he is proved right. I don't think this is a sick attitude although it may be a tad childish.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

There you go, Ink. Well said--all of it, IMHO.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Anyone wanna try and explain to me why T was yelling for help while bouncing Z's skull on the sidewalk? It doesn't make any sense at all.

But it does make complete logical sense for Z to be yelling for help, doesn't it?

Anyone wanna try to take a shot at rectifying this irregularity? Anyone?....Bueller, Bueller, Bueller.


Photobucket


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Here's your Racist

Hmmmmmmmm....none of the usual cast of characters has bothered to post this morning......I wonder why?

That Z....crazy like a fox. Doing all this just so he could shoot some black kid. He's so prescient, maybe I'll get my lottery numbers from him from now on.

""Do you know the individual that stepped up when no one else in the black community would?" the family member wrote. "Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church‐goers to get out of church so that he could hand them fliers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8th, 2011 at Sanford City Hall??"

Here is a link that might be useful: Your racist guy


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Well, the grand jury gets to investigate all this, instead of the cops being over-ruled by the DA who drove 50 miles and just took his word for how it went down, and letting him off scot free.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I had not posted because I feel I know what happened. I just wonder if everyone will disappear when what happens when the truth comes out.

Two expert have said it is not Zimmerman screaming for help on the tape. The voice never sounded like a child to me without special machines to say it was not an adults scream for help.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Anyone wanna try and explain to me why T was yelling for help while bouncing Z's skull on the sidewalk? It doesn't make any sense at all.
But it does make complete logical sense for Z to be yelling for help, doesn't it?
Anyone wanna try to take a shot at rectifying this irregularity?

After they indicat and try Zimmerman and you will get an answer to your questions.
There is no "irregularity" in the screaming. One or the other was getting whipped during an altercation.
The facts that we know though are that the assailant, Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon and formed an opinion that this young black teenager was commiting some kind of crime. We also know that zimmerman was armed with a pistol and chose to pursue Trayvon who he indicated had made eye contavct with him...and thus knew he was being stalked by this creep.
I would stipulate that Trayvon stood his ground, beat the living crap out of a 28 year old stalker who had a gun on him and who had been tailing him. I would also stipulate that it may have been Zimmerman who screamed for help once he discovered that this 17 year old defended himself against an armed assailant.
Whatever force that Trayvon used was justified, including deadly force. I would have pounded the he11 out of some creep who was carrying a weapon in a holster, had been stalking me at night, and then came up to challenge me physically and verbally.
For those who believe that racial profiling does not exist and the racist attitudes toward blacks are balanced out by reverse discrimination, seem to be flocking to the defense of Zimmerman.

Is his father, the former judicial magistrate, Hispanic?
Also, why doesn't Judge Zimmerman show his face in his televised interviews about this case? No one seems to even have a picture of this guy or know much about him, yet he may have been involved in the decision by the States Atty to not bring charges against his son.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"""""""""More ugly racial profiling.
The "new black panthers' call for Zimmerman's arrest just like most other black people and sensible people are calling for. "

Well heri maybe you should view this video. The "new black panthers" make it absolutely clear who and what they are on it. What they say speaks volumes and shows that racism by some blacks is still very much prevalent. The language regarding whites on this video is something that would never be allowed for a white person to get up and say about blacks. I don't know if Zimmerman called Martin a "c--n" or not but if he did, that isn't as bad as the garbage this idiot is spewing toward white people and many blacks also. Oh yeah, the "new black panthers" are real peace lovers and all that people like them accomplish is to widen the barrier between races.

""""""For those who believe that racial profiling does not exist and the racist attitudes toward blacks are balanced out by reverse discrimination"

View the video!!!

As for Zimmeran not being arrested yet............people aren't always arrested right away. Sometimes it's up to a grand jury to indite them then they are arrested. The wheels of justice turn slowly many times.

Here is a link that might be useful: new black panthers


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I've been trying to locate the current membership of the New Black Panthers and am unable to find that number - my search skills have always been poor, maybe others woudl have a better luck finding the current membership. I'm trying to figure out if this group is a powerful political group or simply a loud one.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Now that we've heard from the New Black Panthers, can someone bring us up to date on what they're saying on Storm Front?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

mylab, I checked the SPLC site, which has NBPP listed as a hate group, but I found no numbers regarding membership. The site does list active NBPP chapters - Active Black Separatist Groups. According to the list there are eight chapters; three in FL, and one each in KY, LA, NJ, TX, and DC.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Since BP's post up thread a bit, with a link, David, Marq, Heri, LB, Mylab, and Nancy have all posted with no comment on the link. Did you not look at it? Do you not have any comment? It sure is helpful in gaining some insight into Zimmerman's character, particularly as it pertains to racial views.


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no comparison

Now that we've heard from the New Black Panthers, can someone bring us up to date on what they're saying on Storm Front?"

Have no idea what Storm Front is........have only heard it mentioned by a few members here. Your post sounds like, however, that you are saying Storm Front is comparable with the "new black panthers". If storm front is anywhere near as vicious, racist, angry hate filled or violent as the new black panthers I'll pass on checking them out.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Elvis, in anticipation of the Zimmerman's grand jury, I've no doubt lawyers on both sides are busy releasing information favorable to their position.

I'll wait for sworn testimony before judging.

As many have previously stated in the last four threads, the concern is for a thorough investigation, and examination of evidence by a grand jury.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Good deal, Nancy.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

As many have previously stated in the last four threads, the concern is for a thorough investigation, and examination of evidence by a grand jury.

Thank you Nancy!


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Since BP's post up thread a bit, with a link, David, Marq, Heri, LB, Mylab, and Nancy have all posted with no comment on the link.

What is there to comment on? It is a unknown unidentified relative that may have spoken to him 20 years ago. His brother was giving interviews stating what happened and it was said he had not spoken or seen his brother in years.

I am not concerned about how afraid Zimmerman is, I am sure Trayvon was afraid the night he was stalked and shot.

I want him arrested and brought to trial period. If they do not find him guilty for whatever charges they finally charge him with I will be surprised and disappointed if he is not convicted.

I do not believe he feared for his life, and if he did feel fear it was of his own making and he murdered a young man regardless of color. The fact he killed another human being needlessly is a fact.

I do not care how many un-identified people crawl out of the woodwork and tell his story of good deeds, or beg for mercy makes no difference to me. If fear keeps his crazy butt off the street with his gun I hope he is scared S&itless..

Does that answer your question elves? Is that enough info for you to regurgitate/parrot later?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

From the time Zimmerman began to follow Trayvon, the rest is all moot. At that point, Zimmerman becomes the agressor, and "Stand Your Ground" is off the table. or damn well better be. Everything else is muddy water. End of story.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Gee, Marq, your OP on the "Brother's Keeper" thread sure sounded like a different guy.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I will comment on the ridiculous interview that Anderson Cooper did with a fringe leader of a fringe black group...a small group that does not represent African Americans, the NAACP or any mainstream African American person or group. I have never seen or heard this individual before on any mainstream media outlet.

So my first comment is this... What an AH Anderson Cooper was to do this interview. What a sorry attempt to represent this guys paranoid rant about vigilante justice as a counterpoin to zimmerman stalking and killing a young teenager. Sorry, this garbage and the illiterate man in the green jacket did not deserve prime time coverage. In fact, it only served to promote a negative stereotype of blacks with this fool. His comments in no way represent any widely held view . On the contrary , it obviously only excited those looking to find some equivocation to racism and racial profiling.

Anderson "Sparky" Cooper is just one more reason I will not watch CNN nearly as much as I once did, when Ted Turner was CEO. CNN is now fashioning itself as Fox Lite trying to draw viewers from that cesspool of disinformation and mind flocking. Maybe they should hire Joe Scarborough and bring Lou Dobbs back as well.

I need MSNBC to go 24/7 and to add some decent talent...and bring back Keith O. for the stretch run. Keith could be Mr. October for us.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Tue, Apr 3, 12 at 23:07

From the time Zimmerman began to follow Trayvon, the rest is all moot. At that point, Zimmerman becomes the agressor, and "Stand Your Ground" is off the table. or damn well better be. Everything else is muddy water. End of story."

No. M breaks contact with Z. Surely you've read the transcript.

Just in case you hadn't read it.

"Zimmerman: It�s a home it�s 1950, oh crap I don�t want to give it all out, I don�t
know where this kid is."

The first engagement ends here. Z can't follow M, because M lost him in the complex. When M emerges from wherever he was hiding, it might as well be a different person.

The second engagement starts when M reengages/jumps Z while Z is returning to his vehicle to meet the police. No one compels M to engage Z. M does this all on his own.

Now Z is a racist and murderer?

It's not even proven anywhere that I could find that M was the guy that Z was following originally. If it's not the same person, it becomes a classic self defense shooting. Nothing more.

Z might get charged with something, who knows. If I represented Z, I'd make the state prove that it wasn't reasonable for Z to shoot M while getting his head pounded in the pavement.

And I'd win.........handily.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Gee, Marq, your OP on the "Brother's Keeper" thread sure sounded like a different guy."

Elvis as you followed the topic so close that you could not contribute to that topic I guess you should go back and study the topic a little more.

To think that I am different means you still need to study the topic a little more.

Start with the topic meaning that may help with your evaluation and study project.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

heri said"""""""""More ugly racial profiling.
"The "new black panthers' call for Zimmerman's arrest just like most other black people and sensible people are calling for. "


Then heri said regarding "new black panthers""""""""...a small group that does not represent African Americans, the NAACP or any mainstream African American person or group. I have never seen or heard this individual before on any mainstream media outlet."


You stated that you had never seen or heard this individual, yet you were instantly defending "the new black panther" group. The man clearty stated that according to "screeet law" Zimmerman has been charged with murder and that the "new black panthers" do not follow the white mans law or the American law yet you say that "the new black panthers" only want justice. They don't sound like they want justice at all to me, only vengence and no, they are not a "major" group in the black community but they do represent some Black people and they are the epitome of black on white racism which you say doesn't exist. Do you know what would happen if any of the white hate groups appeared on TV spewing hatred and garbage like this guy did. The Black community would be up in arms about the "racism". Here this man is vomitting up his hatred on nationwide TV though and you still state there is no black on white racism. Right!!!!


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Has the Klan chimed in yet?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Wed, Apr 4, 12 at 14:12

Has the Klan chimed in yet?"

They called me last week, said that they were going to Orlando and did I want to help with "Those little Al and Jesse clowns" problem. I told them that I had to work and was scared of clowns anyways, so I couldn't help them with that.
I also told them to be careful and not to confuse Al and Jesse with the other working clowns down down at Disney World.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Has the Klan chimed in yet?"

No, so far as I know just the black racists have shown up on TV. I'm sure there are white hate groups out there that would love to put their two cents in though. And you know David, even if the klan went on national televison and showed what hate filled, violent, ignorant people they are, as the "new black panthers" did, it wouldn't make what the panthers did any less vile. Both groups are racists; hate filled, angry, ignorant people. The only difference being the color.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

They called me last week, said that they were going to Orlando and did I want to help with that.

This I believe.

-Ron-


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Big Papi-- That's where you're wrong. Once Zimmerman established contact, it's all one incident. Just because the kid ducked in and then came back out to confront the guy means nothing. Just because he's making the confrontation happen on HIS terms, does NOT negate the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by following this kid in the first place.

Look-- you know my stand on weapons and their use. If this guy did right, I'd be the first one, even over YOU, to defend him. But this guy's dirty.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I agree 100% with Bill on every point that he made.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

" Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (billvincent@hotmail.com) on
Wed, Apr 4, 12 at 22:14

Big Papi-- That's where you're wrong. Once Zimmerman established contact, it's all one incident. Just because the kid ducked in and then came back out to confront the guy means nothing. Just because he's making the confrontation happen on HIS terms, does NOT negate the fact that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation by following this kid in the first place."

Sure it does......It takes two to tango, Z was disengaging by walking off the dance floor. Nobody compelled M return to engage Z.

"Look-- you know my stand on weapons and their use. If this guy did right, I'd be the first one, even over YOU, to defend him. But this guy's dirty."

He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he did call the police and was returning to his vehicle to meet them. If this isn't disengagement, what is?

M reengages, emerging from a place of safety to do so. All the causation rides with M after M looses Z in the complex. It's no different than if a uninvolved person jumped Z.

I doubt Z gets charged, even if he does get charged with Murder, defense will make the state prove that what Z did while he was being beaten was unreasonable to the average Joe. Angela Corey is looking at this too....I guarantee.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Doesn't matter how many red herrings or sorry excuses get thrown in... it still looks like a canned hunt to me.

I concur with Bill... the moment this vigilante was told, in no uncertain terms, by law enforcement, to back off and not pursue, everything that followed was wrong, and moot... and a boy is still dead.

"Do not pursue" doesn't mean chase down and shoot... in any language.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Both groups are racists; hate filled, angry, ignorant people. The only difference being the color.

What country do you live in?
Are you that naive and uninformed or do you just choose to live in denial?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I agree entirely with Bill. But if this cop wannabe gets off, his life won't be worth a plugged nickel. He'll always be looking over his shoulder just like Casey Anthony. There will always be someone who would kill him for Trayvon.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

The unfortunate thing is... there's very little actual justice within our justice system.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I also agree with Bill that Z should have stood down. The version of the events that BP is telling is Z's version and why should anyone believe Z since it's in his best interest to lie at this point? That's why a thorough investigation was (is) needed.


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the only difference is the color

heri""""""""What country do you live in?
Are you that naive and uninformed or do you just choose to live in denial? "

Heri,are you honestly saying that this "new black panther group" is not just as hate filled as the kkk or any of the other hate filled, radical white groups? This guy spewed nothing but anger and hatred toward the White race. As far as I am concerned the only difference is the color. What do you think the difference is heri? And heri, as you pointed out regarding the "new black panther" group, they are a small part of the Black community and aren't representatives of that community; neither do the white radical/racist groups speak for nor represent the White communities.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I have one problem with believing Z. If Martin was banging Z.'s head on the ground, how did the injury appear on the top of his head?

I have tried to imagine how Martin would have held him in order for it to happen to that part of his head. Now, if Z. konked himself, it would be in the right place.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 5, 12 at 7:03

I also agree with Bill that Z should have stood down. The version of the events that BP is telling is Z's version and why should anyone believe Z since it's in his best interest to lie at this point? That's why a thorough investigation was (is) needed."

Here's the transcript:

"Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George�He ran.
Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted by Mother Jones]
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the
officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the
club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they
go past the mailboxes, that�s my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don�t know, it�s a cut through so I don�t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What�s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It�s a home it�s 1950, oh crap I don�t want to give it all out, I don�t
know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes
then?
Zimmerman: Yeah that�s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I�ll let them know to meet you around there okay?"

The whole section reads that Z isn't following M anymore. Z arranges to meet the Police at his truck.

Can this be any simpler? I don't know how. Unless you're deliberately obtuse and willfully blind, that is.

You do know that excited utterances are admissible in court as evidence, don't you? I'm not sure as to whether this falls into this standard or not, but as much as you'd like to deny it, it IS indicative.

Do you think that maybe the Police had access to this recording while they interviewed Z for 5 hours after the shooting?

Jeeezzzzzz.........Do ya think so???????


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Jodi, for the record, such as we have access to, read back to us where Zimmerman was told "Do not pursue." I believe the statement was more like "we don't need you to do that," from dispatcher.

Lady Brat made a good point. Racists come in all colors.

Bill is indeed the voice of reason here. Nice. And to all of who so were so wanting to run out and hang somebody a few days ago, I, for one am glad you're listening to Bill.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

BP, where you are missing the point is.....Everyone has said over and over, and over.....

He called the police, he knew the police were coming, he knew where Trayvon was.....When he left his car and started to follow Trayvon it made him the aggressor.

If you are walking down the street and someone starts to follow you what will you think? What does that say to you?
Are you innocent of murder?

You can post every conversation you can dig up it does not negate the fact that he followed and caused the death of Trayvon. He did not meet the level of force with same force. He used a gun against....what we have not gotten the facts of but we know there was not a lethal weapon in Trayvon's hands or on his person.

What do you not get?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

BP: So you don't think that Z could be talking to the police and still stalking the kid while giving information to the police? What makes you think he followed the police dispatcher's instructions to stand down?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

What the exact wording was from the LE dispatcher is totally and completely moot... he was told not to intervene. How does that differ?

The threads of excuses get thinner and more meaningless as time goes by.

It doesn't matter what exact wording was used... Zimmermann was told, in no uncertain terms, that the police would handle it. He was to stand down.

You can say that same thing in a plethora of ways... the meaning does not change!

Don't do anything means don't do anything in any language! What part of that do you not grasp?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

plethora: overbundance, excess...

Sorry, Jodi. I understand your confusion now. We think differently and communicate differently. You assume a lot; I tend to be more literal. If it weren't for misunderstandings, what would we all have in common?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Bill is indeed the voice of reason here. Nice. And to all of who so were so wanting to run out and hang somebody a few days ago, I, for one am glad you're listening to Bill."

Apparently you are not listening to what Bill or many others here have said. Bill succinctly stated that Zimmerman was in the wrong for initiating the contact. That is what most of us have been saying. Do you actually read the posts?


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 5, 12 at 10:49

BP: So you don't think that Z could be talking to the police and still stalking the kid while giving information to the police?"

So Z lied to the police, stalked M, and then shot him. All while knowing that the police were on the way? Is this your theory? This is how you get to a murder charge? Where's you evidence?

"What makes you think he followed the police dispatcher's instructions to stand down?"

Surely you have some type of proof to confirm this allegation that he continued looking for M?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 5, 12 at 11:54

All this speculation is nice(?) (good thing futures prices aren't involved) but if an arrest is coming it will come. Then the real evidence will be revealed and the trial will take place in a court room like I said 4 or 5 threads ago. Sit tight.


 o
Hmmmmmm

"CNN Enhances Zimmerman 911 Call Again � And Reporter Now Doubts Racial Slur Used"

"Recently, CNN enhanced audio of George Zimmerman � the man who shot Trayvon Martin � to try and determine if he did, in fact, use a racial slur while calling police on the night of the shooting. Back then, it sounded like Zimmerman might have used the phrase "fu**ing coons," and his critics have cited it as evidence of a racially-motivated attack. But now CNN has enhanced the audio again, and the reporter is casting doubts that the term was used."

Hummmmmmmm.....this keeps getting worse for ya'll. I'm curious as to how this will be rectified.

Here is a link that might be useful: Frog walking the MSM


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"Surely you have some type of proof to confirm this allegation that he continued looking for M?"

Yes ......... he shot him.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

So Z lied to the police, stalked M, and then shot him. All while knowing that the police were on the way? Is this your theory? This is how you get to a murder charge? Where's you evidence? I think he might have been trying to capture the kid to hold for the police....since he is a LE wannabe. He wanted to make sure the kid did not get out of his sight. This theory (and I admit it is a theory) is reinforced by his wistful statement "they always get away".


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"might"

This is your proof?

"He wanted to make sure the kid did not get out of his sight."

But of course you read the 911 transcript where Z states "I don�tknow where this kid is." So you know for a fact that Z was lying to the police out of one side of his mouth while calling for help out of the other? He wanted the police to be there so he could be investigated for murder and arrested? Is this your contention?

This flies in the face of logic.

"Posted by frank_il z5Illinois (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 5, 12 at 12:24

"Surely you have some type of proof to confirm this allegation that he continued looking for M?"

Yes ......... he shot him"

Faulty logic. You assumption that he followed M after calling 911 is only that, an assumption not backed by anything that's factual.

You know nothing about the confrontation. Have you bothered to research what the eyewitness stated, or is the eyewitness lying too?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Surely you have some type of proof to confirm this allegation that he continued looking for M?

Well, how about this for proof.

Zimmerman was told he was not needed to follow the, so called, "suspicious person", IE Martin.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher "OK".

Next thing that is known is Zimmerman is claiming "self defense" and "stand your ground", as he was being beaten up by Martin on the ground.

What the heck was Zimmerman doing outside of his vehicle?

Was he just standing there looking dumb and waiting for the cops to show up?

Come on Big Papi, a bit of common sense would be able to figure out that Zimmerman was out of his vehicle, armed and ready for a fight with his loaded gun.

He's concerned that some kid with a hoodie is a suspicious person, up to no good, by his own words, he suspected the person to be on drugs.

Yet there is Zimmerman, following this person in his vehicle, gets out of the vehicle after being told not to follow the person, not needed to follow the person.

That is instigating a confrontation for no reason other than to do so, especially after he had been following the "suspicious person" in his vehicle.
Very likely he was trying to either play "macho neighborhood watch" person, which he is not trained to be, or he just wanted the confrontation and let the chips fall where they may, so to speak.
What he wanted to do though, was make sure this person didn't get away no matter what happened.

Again his own words say that they always get away. oops he was going to make sure this one didn't.

You talk about trying to spin the info and all the rest of your rhetoric, it is nothing more than right wing spin, instead of common sense and facts.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Are you related to Zimmerman , BP? Why are you so hell bent on defending this guy who killed an innocent unarmed kid. And If the kid did attack him , that was stand your ground defense because he was being pursued by an armed thug who he didn't know. Tray had every reason in the world to be where he was...going to a friend's house where he was staying. .


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Are you related to Zimmerman , BP?
No I am thinking he is Zimmerman. BP seems to want to plead his case via tapes vs actions.

How about responding to this.....

BP, where you are missing the point is.....Everyone has said over and over, and over.....

He called the police, he knew the police were coming, he knew where Trayvon was.....When he left his car and started to follow Trayvon it made him the aggressor.

If you are walking down the street and someone starts to follow you what will you think? What does that say to you?
Are you innocent of murder?

You can post every conversation you can dig up it does not negate the fact that he followed and caused the death of Trayvon. He did not meet the level of force with same force. He used a gun against....what we have not gotten the facts of but we know there was not a lethal weapon in Trayvon's hands or on his person.

What do you not get?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Seems that Big Papi doesn't understand anything unless it is being spewed out of the mouths of faux news aka Fox news, or it comes directly off of rightwing websites, and right wing news sites.

anything else, and it just can't absorb into that head of his.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Off topic, but how about lightening up with the "spewing"?I always think of vomit when any of you use that word--it's repulsive. Totally antagonistic, as it's meant to be, I think.

It's not appropriate for either discussion or argument.

Every time one of you starts with the "spewing" I just cringe and can't even listen to what you are saying.

And please don't someone chirp in that "if you can't run with the big dogs get off the porch", or "if you can't take the heat", or some such other nonsense.

Can't you just speak with the courtesy you would use with someone you are looking in the eye?

Thank you :(


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Too bad elvis. Just get over it.


 o
RE: Pointed nastiness

Probably a good idea, jz, but not for me.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Good article.

Here is a link that might be useful: article


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Heh....this is about what I expected.

You poorcluelesspeople can't out argue me on the facts, so you resort to shrill ad hominem attacks.

SNORT, I'll sleep good tonight knowing that you people are out of arguable points.

Have a nice night.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

This case has taken on a larger symbolic meaning for the Right though who feel it necessary to push back and push back hard against African Americans who are justifiably sensitive about racial profiling. Some from the right even try to mitigate racism by denying it exists or that reverse racism is just the same as the prolonged systemic racisn against African Americans in this country. This tact has gotten old and adds nothing to the discussion.


Z's new lawyer/mouthpiece really came on strong today, framing the shooting as self defense against a 6'3" Tray, who according to thehis atty beat his client and forced him to use his gun in self defense.
I am not buying any of it. My own life experience leads me to a different conclusion about the repective power and core strength that these two individuals gad, as well as the difference in their respective levels of aggression in that circumstance.

My money would have been on the 28 year old Zimmerman, who looked like a pretty self assured, cocky dude in the police video just 30 minuted after he killed this boy. Tray was a tall skinny 17 year old boy with no record of extreme violence or of violently attacking authority. On the contrary Z is an unindicted wife beater who resisted police in the past. He was a pretty tough hombre with a shaved head ( how's that for profiling), Seriously, he had a history of violence and creepy stalking behavior.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Exactly Heri. Zimmerman looks like he could take care of himself. He looks like a cocky vigilante type. The kid was tall and lanky but Z outweighed him. I have no doubt the kid attacked him because he was afraid of this strange dude following him. As I said I would not want to be in Z's shoes. If he's not charged, his life will still not be worth a plugged nickel.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Off topic, but how about lightening up with the "spewing"?I always think of vomit when any of you use that word--it's repulsive.

Elvis, I used the word "spewing" intentionally in reference to the guy speaking for the "new black panthers". The words coming from his mouth were literally hate and violence being spewed. Disgusting stuff is discharged when you vomit and disgusting stuff was discharged in this guys speech. I'm sorry if you find the word offensive, but I feel that it is a perfect description of what this man was doing.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I'll help purge this thread by posting a useless contribution, other than to move the thread toward demise.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Glad to give you a hand Marshall.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 6, 12 at 9:12

me too....but like potato chips I'm sure more will be made. It's good to banter over certain topics but I'd rather banter later over the final outcome after all the solid evidence is on the table for all to review. Time will tell.


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RE: George Zimmerman Part II

I with you marshall. Zimmerman II should be dead.

How about answering my questions BP. If you do not can I assume you cannot answer because it rings true?


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Happy Easter. spew spew spew spew spew


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Warms my heart to read such heart-felt contributions to a dying thread.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

Happy to help exhaust this thread.


 o
RE: George Zimmerman Part II

"You can post every conversation you can dig up it does not negate the fact that he followed and caused the death of Trayvon."

Up to the point where M loses Z in the apartment complex, no, nothing to debate.

"He did not meet the level of force with same force."

Before you go spouting off....why don't you look at F.S. Chapter 776? Specifically, 776.012 (1)?

"He used a gun against....what we have not gotten the facts of but we know there was not a lethal weapon in Trayvon's hands or on his person."

Before you go spouting off....why don't you look at F.S. Chapter 776? Specifically, 776.012 (1)?

Here, I'll save you the trouble:

"776.012 Use of force in defense of person.�A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

History.�s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27."

Now, you wanna show me where M could have thought that imminent death or great bodily harm was apparent before he jumped Z?

When M jumped Z, after losing M in the complex, M reengaged Z and fell under the self defense section of F.S 776.012(1).

On the other hand.......I'm gonna take a w.a.g. that getting your head pounded into the concrete will be sufficient for the definition of "deadly force".

What is it that you people can't understand? This is really very basic.
______________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________

"Posted by frank_il z5Illinois (My Page) on
Fri, Apr 6, 12 at 9:40

Happy Easter. spew spew spew spew spew"

This has got to be the most intelligent post from this poster that I've ever seen.
______________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________

"Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Fri, Apr 6, 12 at 8:55

Glad to give you a hand Marshall."

Still can't give that way over officious self appointed and mod status a break, can ya?



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