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Blow by Blow

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 15:37

"Blow by Blow - A comprehensive Timeline of the GOP's Battle to Kill Obamacare"

Just for the record...

"The Affordable Care Act celebrates its fourth birthday on Sunday, just as its first enrollment period comes to a close.

It has been a long battle to get to this level of implementation - and the fight hasn’t ended yet. From Republicans’ initial resistance to repealing Obamacare in its entirety to their relentless effort to chip away at the law by targeting individual provisions, withholding funding, and undermining implementation, the party is showing no signs of abandoning its anti-Obamacare crusade any time soon.

On this anniversary, ThinkProgress takes a look back at all of the milestones in the GOP’s ongoing campaign to undermine a law that has defined national politics for half a decade:

MARCH 23, 2010: An immediate push to repeal.

Immediately after President Obama signed the Senate health care bill into law, 13 Republican state attorneys general file a federal lawsuit against the overhaul and Sens. Jim DeMint (R-SC), Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Rep. Steve King (R-IA) introduce legislation to repeal the law. King even offers a discharge petition. “If we can get to 218, we can force Nancy Pelosi to bring a repeal to the floor for a vote. If the Senate can do that…we have a chance to put a repeal on President Obama’s desk and make him veto that bill,” King explained. “Repeal and replace will be the slogan for the fall,” Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) predicts. Watch a compilation: (video at link below)

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli files a separate lawsuit in Virginia challenging the constitutionality of the law.

John Boehner (R-OH) - then the House Minority Leader - promises that Republicans will seek to defund the measure. “You just gotta take appropriated funds to actually come through the process to fund the hiring of new employees, to create these new bureaucracies. I can’t imagine a Republican Congress is going to give this President the money to begin this process,” he tells Fox News.

Meanwhile, Democratic lawmakers who voted for the bill are receiving death threats and experiencing vandalism. Vandals struck the Tuscon office of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), the Monroe County Democratic Committee headquarters in upstate New York, Rep. Louise Slaughter’s (D-NY) Niagara Falls office, the Knox County Democratic headquarters in Ohio, and the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita, KS. Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC), the highest-ranking black lawmaker in the House, has said “he received an anonymous fax showing the image of a noose” and authorities in Virginia are investigating “a cut propane line” at the home of a brother of Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA).

Sarah Palin labels a map of vulnerable lawmakers’ districts with crosshairs on her Facebook page and tweeting, “Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: “Don’t Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!”

The ACA prohibits women from using premium affordability tax credits or cost-sharing payments to pay for abortions but also reinforces states’ ability to prohibit insurers from providing any form of abortion coverage within the exchange. The day before Obama sings the Affordable Care Act into law, a Missouri Senate committee votes 5-1 to advance a bill that would deny insurers the right to offer abortion coverage in any government exchange. A total of 23 states now prohibit abortion coverage in their marketplaces.

Some Republicans are initially wary about repealing the law in its entirety. For instance, in January, Eric Cantor told Politico’s Mike Allen that Republicans “WILL NOT campaign for full health care repeal, but will demand partial repeal, including mandates for health coverage.”

Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA) admits there are portions of the legislation he likes - including the provision that would allow parents to carry their offspring on their insurance until age 26. “When we say start over, we don’t mean throw everything out - throw out the baby with the bath water. We mean, take the best of this bill and combine it with our ideas like buying insurance across state lines and equalizing the tax treatment and creating high-risk pools.” “Of course, all of the language regarding electronic medical records I’m in favor of. So I might not fully agree with completely repealing and starting over.”

Republicans admit that repeal is unrealistic. “The fact is that’s not going to happen, OK?” Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) tells an audience at Vanderbilt University. Sen. Richard Burr (R-NC) agrees: “It may not be total repeal at the end of the day. It may be a series of fixes over the course of this bill getting enacted that allow us to change and possibly bend that cost curve down.”

Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA) tells a town hall meeting, “There are a lot of things in this bill I think you and I certainly like.” “I think as a practicality you’re going to have trouble repealing the whole deal… there ought to be areas where Democrats and Republicans can come together.”

John Boehner tries to take credit for some provisions included in the bill and promised to keep them in place.

His refusal to call for a full repeal betrays a growing rift between leadership and the more conservative members of the Republican party. Rep. Steve King (R-IA) -has repeatedly warned Republicans that “if we leave any component of it in there, it has, it’s just become a malignant tumor that’s attacking our liberty and our freedom and it’s diminishing our aspirations and it saps our overall productivity as a nation,” King says. “If we can’t come to that conclusion, then I want some new people to come help me.” In April, repeal legislation had no more than 62 co-sponsors in the House and 20 in the Senate.

States like Ohio and Alabama approve petitions to remove their residents from requirements to purchase health insurance and to participate in the law’s health plans. The effort was being orchestrated and organized by the American Legislative Exchange Council [ALEC], a “business-friendly conservative group that coordinates activity among statehouses.” The Council is pushing model legislation to protect “the rights of patients to pay directly for medical services” and prohibit the individual mandate. Multiple states pass similar measures, though the effort never proves popular.

MAY 2010: Republicans offer a 9-page alternative.

Republicans prepare to re-litigate the health care reform debate by blocking the nomination of Donald Berwick, a Harvard University professor, to head the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). The Republican Policy Committee preparesa memo linking Berwick to the British health care system and presents him as someone who supports rationing and a government takeover of health care. Obama recess appoints Berwick in July of 2010.

Watch Republicans go at it: (video at link below)

Republicans object to government-printed mailers informing Medicare beneficiaries about how the new health care law will improve the program. “This goes beyond propaganda and is blatantly political. If this document is really about Medicare, then why is there information in there about 26-year-olds being able to stay on their parents’ policies?” Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI) asks. “The brochure fails to inform seniors that the president’s new law cuts $550 billion from their Medicare,” Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) adds.

Republican leadership in the House introduces a 9-page “bill” to repeal the health care law and replace it with the Republican alternative already defeated on the House floor in November 2009. This is the third repeal bill introduced by the GOP, but the first to replace the law with different legislation. The Congressional Budget Office found that under the GOP alternative, the number of uninsured Americans would increase to 52 million by 2019. The bill could slightly reduce premiums for Americans who purchase coverage independently.

JUNE 2010: Republicans make first effort to repeal the individual mandate, while arguing parts of reform should be better funded.

Congress rejects a Republican effort to strip the individual health insurance mandate from the new health care law. Twenty-one Democrats cross party lines to vote in favor of the measure, while one Republican, Rep. Joseph Cao (R-LA), votes against it. The effort is led by Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI), who attempts to attach the measure to a motion that would have sent a small business tax credit bill back to committee with instructions to insert language invalidating the measure.
Camp claims that the mandate violated “the basic principle of freedom and individual choice.” “No American should be forced to buy or purchase health insurance they don’t want or can’t afford,” Camp says, arguing that the measure would “uphold the freedom upon which this nation was founded” and obfuscate the need for more IRS agents. Highlights from the debate: (video at link below)

Florida Senate candidate Marco Rubio - who had signed a pledge to fully repeal the law - tells reports that he would maintain the law’s pre-existing conditions exclusions and the provisions that allow children to stay on their parents’ policies until age 26. “A small group of reporters in a D.C. coffee shop, chatting with Florida Republican Senate candidate Marco Rubio. He just mentioned that there are two parts within the Obamacare legislation that he doesn’t want repealed. The first is the ban on insurance companies denying coverage based on preexisting conditions and the second is that he thinks that children up to age 26 should be allowed to “buy into” their parents’ coverage,” National Review’s Jim Geraghty reported. Rubio later backs away from those comments."

And that's only the beginning... there's a lot more at the link below, including a continuation of the timeline, video clips, graphs, maps, etc...

It's a long read, but it puts a lot of things into perspective... for the record...

Here is a link that might be useful: A Comprehensive Timeline...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Blow by Blow

For the record?

As in, what causes the middle class to be reduced to poverty, or simply without healthcare?


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RE: Blow by Blow

This is a weird OP; for example, Gifford hasn't been a Rep. for years now. The Palin crosshairs cwapp dates back at least to then. This is, therefore it seems, an amalgamation (read hodge-podge) of attacks on Republicans for many sins other than just working against ACA.

enough already; ciao


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RE: Blow by Blow

Agree Marshall........lots to discuss with regards to the spurious attacks against the ACA but I'm not getting this...sorry Jodi.


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RE: Blow by Blow

It's a timeline... did anyone actually read the information at the link? All the way through?


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RE: Blow by Blow

Yawn...

No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, it's still a pig. Ostupidcare will be fixed come November. Only the most die hard Leftists think the Dems will keep the Senate. Even Dingy Harry Reid is coming to this realization.

The Opposition will control Congress. The good parts will be kept, and the rest will be tossed. King Barack will have to learn he isn't the smartest man in the room. Never was.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Oh...and it starts..the " good " parts will be kept.......as in NO repeal. The predictable shift is taking place.

Nonsense......the " good " parts need the "bad" parts in order to be viable. It's actually going to be so much fun watching the back peddling if the GOP should win the Senate.

I surely do wish we could have a conversation that excluded the kindergarten name calling though.....


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RE: Blow by Blow

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 20:30

Jodi, that looks like a pretty good, long, long resource. I haven't checked any data but have bookmarked it. Thanks.

Only think if the GOP had put all that time, energy and passion into rebuilding our nation's infrastructure, or creating jobs. But that would have meant cooperating with an "enemy" that also wanted to get to those tasks.


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RE: Blow by Blow

This horse will be beat beyond death as the mid-terms come closer as it seems to be working...


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RE: Blow by Blow

Christoperth.... I was shocked to read in your response that you think there are parts worth saving.

Yes, I edited out a sentence. ;-)

This post was edited by rosalie_66 on Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 8:03


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RE: Blow by Blow

This is a weird OP; for example, Gifford hasn't been a Rep. for years now. The Palin crosshairs cwapp dates back at least to then. This is, therefore it seems, an amalgamation (read hodge-podge) of attacks on Republicans for many sins other than just working against ACA.

Calling out the OP as "weird" is nonsense. The OP includes a link to a timeline concerning the unprecedented ultra-partisan opposition to the ACA.

And yes, it started with the likes of Palin and her despicable crosshairs ad, targeting congressmen like Gabby Giffords who favored the ACA. Paln put those congressmen/ Congresswomen in the crosshairs because, as it states right on that ad, they voted for the healthcare law.

It is important sometimes to reflect on history in order to learn something from it. Take whatever lesson you will from it, but it is what it is. The GOP has in many cases indulged in unprecedented and at times mindless opposition to the ACA.
They have been bolstered by money from the Coke Bros. who funded that ridiculous Uncle Sam gynecologist ad.

The American people want solutions to problems. Repealing the ACA is not a solution to the healthcare/health insurance industry issues that not only impact Medicare, the economy and our national debt, but also the health of our people.

Angry Repealers will not make our people and our country healthier and stronger by continuing their mindless opposition to healthcare reform. Repeatng foolish partisan talking points like "Obama lied when he said you could keep your health insurance/doctor" is partisan sh1t-slinging that is counterproductive. The President and the Democratic members of Congress stood tall. They had the stones to break the lock that private insurance companies had over the American people and to pass some long needed and long awaited health care reforms.

Republicans still have nothing but partisan jabs and the wish to return to a failed health insurance /health care system that was becoming increasingly inaccessible to millions of Americans while still threatening to break our economy.

So don't blame the messenger or call this discussion weird.
I am calling Bulsh1t on that.


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RE: Blow by Blow

All the reading in the world does not change the idea that common sense should prevail, but it won't.

We can thank the occupier of AirForceOne


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RE: Blow by Blow

Thanks, Rosie... it's a timeline representing the GOP's battle to block and stop the Affordable Care Act, so we can see exactly what happened from beginning to end.

A sort of... for the record... to avoid all the usual confusion.

It's a long read, but worth the effort... or good information for future discussions, to be sure.


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RE: Blow by Blow

And... I do believe our esteemed President has already vowed to veto any attempts at repealing the ACA, so that's off the table.


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RE: Blow by Blow

The above in answer to this... won't President Obama have the power to veto any legislation to repeal the ACA?


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RE: Blow by Blow

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 17:32

If the repubs win the senate and make gains in the house then let them try to over turn ACA, of course the prez will veto it. Then let them try to over ride his veto, their balls will suddenly vanish even if they have the votes required. It's all a sham, just like the GOP itself. Sure, put them back into power, they did such a fine job of it during the last decade, remember? perhaps not.


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RE: Blow by Blow

I do believe there are a couple good points in Ostupidcare.

But first I DO NOT CARE what someone who lives in Canada thinks.

So... Good points?

I like the idea that insurers cannot limit coverage to a set dollar amount, like $1,000,000. I have a good friend who fell down a flight of stairs and broke his neck. He had the same injury Christopher Reeves had. Thankfully he was near a GREAT surgeon in Boston who saved him. He underwent multiple surgeries and today he is walking just fine. But his insurance was exhausted in the process. That is just not right.

Preexisting conditions. Not as the law is written now but the original intent. Many people were stuck in a job because a family member say, got cancer. He hates his job, but must stay there because a new employer's insurance won't cover the PEC. The IDEA was so that if you changed jobs, the new carrier would insure you and your ill family member.

I believe if someone had insurance for the previous 12 months and paid the premium, s/he could go with another carrier with no penalty for PEC.

As it is today, if I don't have insurance and get cancer, all I have to do is sign up and be covered. Insurance companies go broke doing that. (Maybe we should do this with auto insurance too. Don't have insurance, get into an accident, and get insurance to cover my car's "pre existing condition".)
The penalty? The IRS can only take the "fine" out of my tax REFUND. They may NOT add any taxes to my return. And I always make sure the government gets as little of my money as possible, so I end up paying a couple hundred every year.

But there are things I find to be intolerable too.

We need to lower the COST of care, not just cover it. And the number ONE way to get costs down is to get the lawyers out of it! I guarantee half the cost of care is preventative medicine just to cover the Physician's ass. Because when he gets sued the lawyer will ask if he performed the "inverted Veeblefetzer protocol". The Doctor says it wasn't necessary. Then the lawyer says to the jury: "See? INCOMPETENCE!! My client deserves every penny I want!"

And who cares? It's the insurance company who pays anyway. And guess who eventually pays? OUR insurance company and we get bigger premiums.

Change the tort laws to "loser pays".


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RE: Blow by Blow

As it is today, if I don't have insurance and get cancer, all I have to do is sign up and be covered. Insurance companies go broke doing that.

Insurance companies should not be like death panels, denying insurance and health care to those who really need it.
Health care is for the sick, not just the well off or those who get it from their employer or a spouse's employer.
Employer based health insurance is unfair to the unemployed and self employed, especially since HIPAA. It also stifles career mobility and advancement.

"Loser pays" tort reform will further empower corporations who would bankrupt any private litigant with legal fees from their silk stocking law firms. There is a common misconception among Fox viewers that there is an abundance of frivolous litigation in our Courts and that there are no sanctions available against those who file baseless lawsuits.
Too many on the Right have been incredibly manipulated and misinformed by Fox, the disinformation channel.


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RE: Blow by Blow

The latest addition to the timeline...

"RICHMOND, Virginia (Reuters) - Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe, and the state’s Republican-dominated House of Delegates on Monday failed to reach an agreement over Medicaid expansion during the first day of a special session called in hopes of reaching a budget deal.

The impasse over Medicaid, the federal health care program for the poor, is holding up passage of a two-year, $96 billion budget. If the two sides fail to reach a deal by July 1, the state government could grind to a halt. Legislators deadlocked over the budget during a 60-day regular session that ended March 8.

McAuliffe, a former Democratic Party fundraiser, proposed on Monday a two-year pilot expansion of Medicaid, which could be terminated if it is unsuccessful, but the proposal was rejected by the House Appropriations Committee.

“I am disappointed that House Republicans voted today to continue Washington-style gridlock instead of accepting a budget that includes a responsible proposal to bring billions of federal dollars back to Virginia to close the health care coverage gap and invest in core priorities like education and mental health,” McAuliffe said in a statement."

More at the link below...

Here is a link that might be useful: Virginia Republicans reject...


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RE: Blow by Blow

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 14:58

"Christopherh: "So... Good points?

I like the idea that insurers cannot limit coverage to a set dollar amount, like $1,000,000." [Glad to hear it, but how to you imagine it would be paid for? We're talking REAL money here. Individuals can't afford it. Employers can't afford it for their employers. Insurers won't pay bills with money they don't have. The mandate for everyone to pay in to spread the costs what makes it possible. Cancel that and we just can't have it.]

"Preexisting conditions. Not as the law is written now but the original intent. ... The IDEA was so that if you changed jobs, the new carrier would insure you and your ill family member. I believe if someone had insurance for the previous 12 months and paid the premium, s/he could go with another carrier with no penalty for PEC." [Which lucky carrier HAS to accept this unfortunate money hole of a patient, and HOW much are they going to charge that person, who for sure won't be able to afford anything approaching market rates?

What about people who aren't changing jobs, who just get cancelled by their previous insurer? Do insurers get to offer them insurance at rates they know the person won't be able to accept?

What about people who through any number of circumstances ended up with a gap in coverage, slamming the door on eligibility just like the bad old days? We did this one before--it resulted in tragedy for many.]

"No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, it's still a pig. ... The Opposition will control Congress. The good parts will be kept, and the rest will be tossed." [The GOP would be either willing or able to pull off any of these wishful miracles? Wish it could be so, Christopher, but -- When pigs fly.]


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RE: Blow by Blow

Christopher, I care a lot about what someone in Canada thinks because several in this forum from Canada have a far better grasp and understanding regarding how our system works, how it should work and how it fails to work for Americans than a great deal of Americans, including some on this forum. One specific well informed forum Canadian is, I suspect, a burr under a few other forum member's skin precisely because she is so very well informed.

Chase, I agree with you. The song and dance we have been hearing about how, once conservatives regain the power they lost, the ACA will be tossed on the rubbish heap is going to change in wording and tone. You have repeatedly stated that it wasnt going to happen and they know they will be reminded of this when it doesnt.

So, they have to backtrack lest they embarrass themselves when they are reminded yet again about another sure thing - that wasnt.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Christopher....as long as America insists upon calling itself the leader of the free world than, as a member of the free world , I get to speak up.

By the way ...I'm cool with you not carrying about what I say...heaven knows I have felt that about you since your first post...fair is fair.


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RE: Blow by Blow

I care what every contributor thinks. I may completely disagree, but there is value in other perspectives. There is no reason to diminish anyone's opinion on these matters. Many times an outside view is refreshing.

I like the Canadians. They are often the voices of reason on this board, which is more than I can say for the rest of us. (*wink*)

So please stop disrespecting people or trivializing their opinions based on where they are from. It does a disservice to everyone. Attack the opinion, not the person.


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RE: Blow by Blow

"I care a lot about what someone in Canada thinks because several in this forum from Canada have a far better grasp and understanding regarding how our system works, how it should work and how it fails to work for Americans than a great deal of Americans, including some on this forum."

That's a sad, but true statement.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Christopher, I care a lot about what someone in Canada thinks because several in this forum from Canada have a far better grasp and understanding regarding how our system works, how it should work and how it fails to work for Americans than a great deal of Americans, including some on this forum. One specific well informed forum Canadian is, I suspect, a burr under a few other forum member's skin precisely because she is so very well informed.

How true that is mylab. It must be very embarrassing to realize one of those darn foreigners knows more about your country and government than you do. It sure does seem to get under their skin, as evidenced by Christopher's reaction to Chase.


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RE: Blow by Blow

I think some spend an inordinate amount of time deciding what other people think and posting it over and over to try and wrongly define people.

I think it is an asinine thing to do, and a waste of time because it is usually wrong.

Anyone that is informed about anything is a good thing.

Christopher has it right.


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RE: Blow by Blow

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 11:19

"Anyone that is informed about anything is a good thing." For sure. So you, as well as anyone, should agree that's exactly why everyone should appreciate input from countries with well established and functioning government-run healthcare systems.

Those who've been claiming all along that Canada's system is soooo bad that they're are forced to come here for care of course are not going to want this favorite deception smashed by input from Canada. But those people don't believe being informed is good, of course.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 11:19

"Anyone that is informed about anything is a good thing." For sure. So you, as well as anyone, should agree that's exactly why everyone should appreciate input from countries with well established and functioning government-run healthcare systems.

Those who've been claiming all along that Canada's system is soooo bad that they're are forced to come here for care of course are not going to want this favorite deception smashed by input from Canada. But those people don't believe being informed is good, of course.

*

It's not that cut and dried, Rosie.

You cannot legitimately define another person's opinion by your own.

A very good friend from Canada is coming to visit me for a week, arriving next week. Her experiences with Canadian health care are generally good as she has related--for everyday problems. It's the very long waits for tests and results of tests when something could be serious that is a problem--much longer waits than what we have here.

So--things aren't always so perfect.
The input of others is always appreciated, in my opinion, whether I agree with it, or whether I think it is necessarily informed or not.

I don't judge people by my own measuring stick when it comes to open participation on a forum.

We all have twenty-four hours in a day.

We choose to use that time differently.

Some of us have more obligations than others, some of us have more interests and hobbies than others, some of us are more social than others, some of us have more family, less family, larger homes, smaller homes, larger gardens, smaller gardens, some work outside the home, some don't but work in the home, some read or enjoy music. Some of us have help, some are alone and do everything ourselves.

We spend our time differently.

Some choose to spend time reading about the health care system and politics of another country.

That's a choice, and one's business to do so.

But it doesn't mean the opinions are others aren't important, or that others are lacking in intellect or interest because they do not choose to spend the time reading numerous internet links and other publications about the specifics of health care, or any other topic.

Choose another topic or compare skills and some will outshine others.

Just 'sayin--diversity is good.

Judgment about why people post and their motives is not.

I've seen too much on this forum this morning after being gone a few days--the "creepy" thread indeed became creepy itself--for the attacks on another poster and trashing of that poster.

As the little boy in Pet Sematary (sic) said, "No fair, No fair."

And from those who purport to champion fairness.

Sad.


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RE: Blow by Blow

I won't debate the issues with Demi because I wouldn't expect her to know details but I would love to have a discussion with her friend.

Of course we all have different ideas of what is a really long wait and what is serious but my experince is that the day to day stuff and the serious stuff are handled extremely well. It is the "in between" things that often experience delays and wait times.

It is true that I have book my routine mamo, bone density, colonoscopy etc a few months in advance but it's a planned event so I'm OK with that.

I have no problem booking doctors appointments. Referrals to specialists can take some time but if my doctor is worried about something I will be seen by a specialist in just a matter of days. .

Non life threatening procedures such as hip and knee replacements may take a while to schedule but I have never heard of any delay whatsoever for serious situations and, unfortunately, I've been close to way too many of them. All were handed quickly and professionally.

There may be regional or Provincial issues, some areas have a shortage of doctors and specialists.

As I have said before ...nothing is prefect .....but I think you would be hard pressed to find a Canadian who would want to be without universal healthcare.....and I'm willing to bet that includes Demi's friend ; )

One other thing....I have never criticized the quality of American healthcare for those who are well insured or can afford it. I would agree they have no problems with wait times.

While we may have some issues with wait times for some things , it is nothing compared to the wait times for uninsured Americans.....those wait times truly are life threatening


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RE: Blow by Blow

Edited to remove duplicate post and to add.....

I am way to busy with my life, my husband, my hobbies and intrests, my family and freinds to spend much time researching the politics or health sytem of any country including my own.

Most I learn through osmosis given I live 25%of my year in the US

I am a naturally curious person and I love debate..... The only time I do any research is when I post something that I want to ensure is factual OR when I am quite certain what has been posted is NOT factual.

Now if others would take the same care to ensure the accuracy of their posts I would spend less time making myself knowledgeable.......but I like being knowledgeable in the subjects I have opinions on so I guess I'm really appreciative of those who continually post incorrect, or misleading information.

This post was edited by chase on Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 16:13


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RE: Blow by Blow

don't judge people by my own measuring stick when it comes to open participation on a forum.

We all have twenty-four hours in a day.

We choose to use that time differently.

That's so rich coming from a poster that often ranks at the top of the # of posts list. And spends more time judging people than anyone else. Some just can't seem to understand that you are your words.


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RE: Blow by Blow

I'll be honest.

At first I was put off by forum members from countries outside the states critiquing our politics including our health care system , BUT

the more posters like Chase and a few others posted, the more I was able to recognize how intelligent and knowledgeable they were. My feelings were unfair to them.

Although I do not always agree, I look forward to their input.

"I've seen too much on this forum this morning after being gone a few days--the "creepy" thread indeed became creepy itself--for the attacks on another poster and trashing of that poster."

Agreed.

That was an example of the most obnoxious, hateful and vile behavior I've seen to date. At the very least, CW is owed an apology for the slanderous comments made. But I highly doubt the perpetrator of those posts has the class to do that.


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RE: Blow by Blow

"And spends more time judging people than anyone else."

How would one be able to calculate that accurately, I wonder.

"Some just can't seem to understand that you are your words."

Where is that written, and by whom (besides jillinnj)? If that expression is true, then I wonder what that says about you, Jill. Remember, you brought it up, your words, so you "own them."

BTW, I don't think this post counts as OT, as I never could figure out what we were supposed to do with the OP, anyway.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Again with the agitated defense of a poster who has made some of the most vile of statements and confessed to making others in order to get a reaction, have fun and laugh?

Its a strange use of time and energy and focus, but its your time, energy and focus to spend as you choose.

Demi, that looks like an awfully long fall from that high horse you climbed up on.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Not nearly as high as the one from which you lecture and judge me.
I've done nothing to you and you make these comments?

Just look at how many times you have apologized for your hateful And judgmental words about my character--those "apologies" ring hollow. One would think you either apologize as a way of insulting me and getting away with it by apologizing or you lack control of your emotions and denigrating of me. One or the other equally vile.

Nothing but trashing and judging me when I haven't said anything to you or jillinj.


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RE: Blow by Blow

•Posted by mylab123 z5NW (My Page) on Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 17:07


"Again with the agitated defense of a poster who has made some of the most vile of statements and confessed to making others in order to get a reaction, have fun and laugh?
Its a strange use of time and energy and focus, but its your time, energy and focus to spend as you choose."

I'm not agitated. My BP's great and I am always unmedicated, prescription or otherwise (it's probably the TM). Just so you don't worry too much about me.

Yes, my energy and focus are mine to spend, thanks.


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RE: Blow by Blow

from demi "
Not nearly as high as the one from which you lecture and judge me.
I've done nothing to you and you make these comments? "

I would imagine demi that if you had accused someone of words that you yourself had written and when it was proven you refused to acknwlege or apologise. it might make someone think differently about you. Do you think people forget? Our actions define us all.

This is a forum open to all who obey the rules...doesnt matter where you come from...Canadians , even Austra;ians are all permitted their opinion.

and Chris using words such as "Ostupidcare" ? How 'clever' and 'witty' of you.


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RE: Blow by Blow

When I apologize to you or to anyone at all on this forum, it is because I am regretful with a remark or entire posting I made and if I feel it calls for a retraction, I make it. If by the standards I set for myself, it also requires from me an apology to the person I directed the comments to, I make haste with that apology.

Do you think it is an easy thing for me to do, especially this particular forum?

Know that is equally as difficult for me as the apologies for regretful words you said to the people in this forum in particular.
I make those apologies just as quickly as I judge that it is the right thing to do - that *very* minute and not a moment longer that I come to that conclusion regarding the words or remarks, because if I wait another five minutes I know that with this particular forum, I will figure out a nice juicy rationalization for myself on why the apology isnt really necessary or why the words were deserved, or because, after all, they were the truth. So, I make sure that if I decide one is required, it gets done and right away, each and every time.

The apology I decide is necessary is something I consider to be my duty to , if I decide one is warranted.

However, the manner in which my apology is received is out of my hands and in a sense, it's not even my affair - unless the person choose to make it my affair, as you just did.


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RE: Blow by Blow

"If by the standards I set for myself, it also requires from me an apology to the person I directed the comments to, I make haste with that apology".

*

If you truly set such standards for yourself, you wouldn't find yourself repeatedly and regularly saying personal things about other posters that you felt necessary to apologize for--most often they're things said that don't involve any exchange with you--they're an unsolicited negative assessment of character and motivations by you based on a poster's opinion on an opinion forum.

And when they're made about me--they're wrong, as well.

Stick to topics and we have no problem.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Demi, teach me by example not to judge others, refrain from making personal digs about others, making negative assessments of character and motivation by you about others and MOST especially, stick to a thread topic without making the thread a personal exchange, rendering it "All about Demi *again*!"- and then perhaps I will place value on those instructions to me which you just laid out -because you will be leading by example.
Otherwise, I have to wonder just who it is, exactly, that you think you are anyway - other than one of many forum members who participate in this Hot Topics forum.

There are a few who actually DO conduct themselves in this forum with grace and decorum. We aren't in that group.

Sorry Jodi. I will stop participating in the trashing your thread.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Posted by mylab123 z5NW (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 0:24

Demi, teach me by example not to judge others, refrain from making personal digs about others, making negative assessments of character and motivation by you about others and MOST especially, stick to a thread topic without making the thread a personal exchange, rendering it "All about Demi *again*!"- and then perhaps I will place value on those instructions to me which you just laid out -because you will be leading by example.
Otherwise, I have to wonder just who it is, exactly, that you think you are anyway - other than one of many forum members who participate in this Hot Topics forum.

There are a few who actually DO conduct themselves in this forum with grace and decorum. We aren't in that group.

Sorry Jodi. I will stop participating in the trashing your thread.

*

Show me posts, Mylab, where I have lectured you about your morals, integrity, show me posts, Mylab, where I have speculated about your motivations for your posts and your mindset, and show me posts, Mylab, where I have said nasty personal things about you and had to apologize.

Show me where I have said these things in response to you giving your opinion on a topic.

The reason a thread is "about Demi" is people like you make personal disparaging remarks about me and I call out those remarks. Then I'm accused of derailing a thread when the gang gangs up.

It's a silly little game no one believes the hype we all know the game.

The fact of the matter is I give my opinions and some don't agree with those opinions and the manner in which I give those opinions gets under the skin of some people.

Get over it--it's an opinion forum and others present information and opinions from the other side, the difference is, most conservatives couldn't care less that you have an opinion or how you give it. We don't have a need to personally trash you because the opinion doesn't get under our skin--we aren't emotional and we aren't reactive and we aren't vindictive and we aren't petty. At least I'm not and I can't think of any conservative poster here who is.

I can tell you exactly who I think I am--a person that participates on an opinion forum that gives my opinion and gets along great with other posters that do not misrepresent me, do not misrepresent my views, do not insult me, do not question my personal integrity because of my opinions, and do not lecture me about how to live my life or tsk tsk about my opinions.

Speak for yourself about not conducting with grace and decorum, Mylab, not me.

As I said--I'm only here to give my opinion--plenty of posters are content for me to do that without feeling a need to personally insulted me or questioned, and/or misrepresent my motives for my opinions, as I am content for leave others alone to their opinions without lecturing them personally or getting personal with them--I simply don't care, it's not my business why someone has the opinion they do and I do not negatively judge people because they have a different opinion than I have.

You're not one of them and there is a history of that.

There are many apologies from you to me for so many nasty things you've said to me over the years. I have seen you apologize for saying nasty things to other conservatives, too.

That fact tells the whole story--there are times that you won't allow someone to give their opinion and just let it be if it's an opinion you don't like.

Here's a hint I learned a long time ago--you can't control everyone, you're not the thought or social police, and you don't get to decide what others think and say. You also don't get to dress them down because you can't argue with their opinion and because you don't like it.

I'm not interested in your thoughts about decorum and grace.

I just want you to practice it.

I want you to practice it so you're not distracting from topics so others don't have to read my defense of myself and your lecturing and then feeling the need (or perhaps getting worried you're get in trouble?) to apologize and then turn around and do it all over again. And again. And again.

Apologies are absolutely meaningless when you offer them multiple times for doing the same thing. Don't you get that?

Leave me alone when it comes to lecturing me about my life, my opinions, speculating about why I post as I do, and falsely accusing me of nefarious motives, making nasty remarks to me about what I know or don't know, and as I said, we'll be fine.

Just keep to the topics.

Now I've wasted a good ten minutes here and I'm late to an early appointment and for what?

For this tripe.

Please leave me alone unless you are addressing the specifics of a post or asking for clarification and discussing topics. That includes "tsk tsk" posts after mine referring to my posts.

Good Day now I'm late and an hour drive.

Ridiculous.


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RE: Blow by Blow

Well, I just skipped all that long diatribe. Feels so good!

Kate


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RE: Blow by Blow

It had finally dawned on me why so many of those with good insurance and/or the financial means to pay for their healthcare are against the ACA.

The more people who have access to healthcare services the longer the wait times will be for some tests, appointments, surgeries etc. It is the fear of personal lnconvience that bothers them


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RE: Blow by Blow

ROTF great Karnack

Some of us seldom go to the doctor.we aren't selfish we just think there are better ways than what obamacare is doing to coverage premiums deductibles and access to benefits and doctors we liked and were told we could keep.
Not to mention what obamacare will do and is doing to the economy.

Wow. Wait times.

One more instance of talking about other people as if one knows what they think and their motives.

This place is forever junior high


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RE: Blow by Blow

It is the fear of personal lnconvience that bothers them

Well, that and the idea that the poors will be getting something they didn't bootstrappy.


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RE: Blow by Blow

It's not the health care, itself, that is the problem, or in question... it's the cost, without some kind of government intervention.

Let's remember that our government isn't really regulating health care... they're regulating insurance, because it's obvious they can't do so in a fair manner, themselves.

A note: Today is the deadline for ACA signup... I'm done, are you?


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RE: Blow by Blow

Demi, I was not addressing you nor talking about you.

You are forever making statements about what you think liberals think and what motivates their opinions and actions so you really are in no position to make that claim against others..


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RE: Blow by Blow

"ROTF great Karnack "

So much for discussing the opinion expressed rather than insulting the poster.......


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RE: Blow by Blow

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 18:14

"ROTF great Karnack "

So much for discussing the opinion expressed rather than insulting the poster.......

*

That wasn't an insult.

That was making light of this post in which "the poster" states they know why people are against the ACA (Obamacare)--and that is because "It is the fear of personal lnconvience (sic) that bothers them."

To state that people that are against the ACA--and I am one of them, although not all parts of it, but as a whole most certainly--are against it because it is a fear of personal inconvenience of having to wait in doctor's offices longer, tests, surgeries, is just silly and an insult to people with legitimate concerns about the way the ACA changes health care for people that did not want it changed, for businesses, for our economy, and for raising premiums and deductibles and limiting access to doctors and treatment.

To suggest that people that do not support the ACA do so because they don't want to be inconvenienced by having to wait longer times because more people are in the system IS THE TRUE INSULT HERE.

Definitely, it was a statement worth chuckling about if someone thinks they know exactly why people oppose the ACA and attribute not wanting to be inconvenienced as the reason.

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 12:37

It had finally dawned on me why so many of those with good insurance and/or the financial means to pay for their healthcare are against the ACA.

The more people who have access to healthcare services the longer the wait times will be for some tests, appointments, surgeries etc. It is the fear of personal lnconvience that bothers them


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RE: Blow by Blow

Thanks for theexplanation but I'm not buying it. It was sarcastic barb , plain and simple. Every time someone says you personally insult posters its always just a joke, just making light.

My observation was not meant as an insult. Time and again I hear people opposed to single payer cite long wait times as one of the reasons they oppose it.. Based on this I formed and opinion on what it is that bothers them.

Not a whole bunch different than your observation that liberals deliberately try and make the poor dependent or as an entire group bash Christians.

I am baffled how it can be that you don't see that.

Edited to add.......I will not be responding further

This post was edited by chase on Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 8:27


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RE: Blow by Blow

Heaven forbid someone is a bit inconvenienced within the course of getting routine or non-emergency health care.

Good grief! We wait for appointments now, don't we? Yes, I think so... we call, make the appointment, and then wait for that date and time.


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