Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Posted by cornopean none (cornopean@hotmail.com) on
Sat, Mar 2, 13 at 21:24

Alabama joins 11 other states that provide tax credit scholarships�"Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island�"and joins 21 states plus Washington, D.C., in offering some form of private-school choice, whether through vouchers, tax credit scholarships, or an education savings account.

Slowly but surely, the teachers union determination to destroy our children's future is being taken away from them. This is good news!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Alabama Free Choice Bill


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

You are wrong. this is bad news.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Alabama has destroyed children's futures because that crap bill says that no school, public OR private, can be forced to enroll a student.

The legislature in that backward state is doing worse than what any union is doing. And I say that as a person who has no use for unions.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

That linked article was misleading.

Alabama’s tax credit program is limited to failing schools.

-Ron-


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

And whose schools do you suppose are failing-the schools funded by weathy neighborhoods or those funded by poor areas and if you happen to live near one of those poor crap schools naturally you want your child to go to a good school so that instead of funding a decent school for all children you pull your kid out, take your tax dollars and go elsewhere leaving the poverty stricken 'failing' school behind. Good plan...in a nutshell -the problem with charter schools and such like.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

MONTGOMERY, Alabama --- A closer look this morning reveals some of the details in the bill passed by the Alabama Legislature on Thursday that provides income tax credits to parents of students in poorly performing schools.

The bill allows those parents to receive tax credits to offset the cost of enrollment in a private school or a “non-failing” public school.

The bill says:

-- It would not require any school, public or private, to be forced to enroll any student.

-- If a student transfers from a “failing” public school to a “non-failing” school in the same school system, the school system would pay the cost of transportation.

-- State income tax credits allowed under the bill could be claimed beginning with the 2013 tax year.

-- If parents owe less in state income tax than the amount of the credit, they would receive a refund or rebate equal to the balance of the unused credit.

-- Parents would be able to receive an income tax credit if their child attended a “failing” school the prior year or was assigned to a failing school for the next year.

-- Parents who receive an income tax credit for transferring their child from a “failing” school to a private school of “non-failing” public school could continue to receive the credit each year until the child completed the highest grade level of the “failing” school, whether or not the “failing” school becomes “non-failing” during that time.

In addition to the section of the bill that would provide tax credits to children in “failing” schools, the bill allows people and businesses to receive state income tax credits for donations to scholarship granting organizations that would be authorized under the bill.

Scholarship granting organizations would be required to spend at least 95 percent of their revenue from donations on scholarships, and all of their revenue from interest or investments on scholarships.

Here is a link that might be useful: Al bill details


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Slowly but surely, the teachers union determination to destroy our children's future is being taken away from them. This is good news!!

This is good comedy!!


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

The GOP legislature and the GOP governor sat on this for several days, and didn't even inform the GOP state school superintendent. Because they didn't want to hear any opposition, or have legislators "be inundated with calls".

Rather than have the contents of the bill debated in the legislature, a much smaller routine bill was passed in both houses with a few differences. Once it was in committee to work out the details, the GOP went to work. The committee was four GOPand two Dem. The committee took a break and the four GOP went off on their own to add the tax credit, etc. provisions and increase the bill from 8-ish to 30-ish pages.. They never involved the Dems. The GOPs on the committee voted it out and it went to the full legislature that voted party line.

Regardless of one's feelings on public education, this was not an honorable day for my state.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

And then what happens to kids at failing schools who don't have an alternative, even with a spiffy new tax credit/voucher?

It may be a shock to some, but not every failing school has, next door or a short bus ride away, a spiffy, brand new private/charter/religious school with excellent staff, facilities, and studen outcomes, there with open arms willing to take all comers.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

And Alabama's schools are some of the worst in the country, they are all failing. Their science curriculum is appalling.

So these lucky kids can go from bad to worse, or worse to bad.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

A further dividing of the classes, for all intents and purposes. I'm quite certain the children aren't enjoying a feeling of smugness...


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

" And then what happens to kids at failing schools who don't have an alternative, even with a spiffy new tax credit/voucher?

It may be a shock to some, but not every failing school has, next door or a short bus ride away, a spiffy, brand new private/charter/religious school with excellent staff, facilities, and studen outcomes, there with open arms willing to take all comers."

David, you haven't been paying attention. They have the same opportunity as any other American child.......they just have to make the right choices and take personal responsibility for themselves and all will be well.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Like, choosing the right parents, the right neighborhood to live in, the right upbringing, and all that?

Yeah, it's those poor choices made and lack of personal responsibility right from the time of birth... they get ya every time.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

What/Who drove this bill?

And when everyone is leaving a "failing" school how would it ever become a "non-failing" school.
What is the definition of a "failing" school and who defines it? Are all the schools in Alabama awarded a F or Non-F?

There is already a two-tiered education system in place between public schools and private/charter school and often parents income will drive where their children go to school. But having the government seemingly interfere or support a choice through tax credits/vouchers would make me uncomfortable.

Now where I live private schools only accept those students that they want and although a specific public school doesn't have to accept a specific student, a public school somewhere in the district would have to accept them. That school may be a non-conforming school but there would be a place for all students.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

What needs to be done is a complete separation of school and state, just like we have a separation of church and state. Then private schools would proliferate like mushrooms all over the country. they would be forced to compete and hence, they would have to be excellent or fail. They would have to excel at meeting the needs of their customers or they would go under.
The union strangle hold is loosening!! Cheers!!


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Sure... just like the business world will self-regulate.

Without state and federal education standards and regulations, the world of education will fall to the "robber barons" and religionists, with the end results being only a certain class being able to afford or obtain education, and that education being of questionable content.

History is too often best NOT repeated.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

jodik: this is so silly. the robber barons did more for the good of society than any govt in history. religion has also been a terrific source of good morals and charitable action.

all you have to do is look at computers. five years ago, I bought a computer for $800 bucks. now that computer is about half as powerful as the new computer I bought for $500. so why the dramatic increase in quality AND a dop in price?? Why couldn't we expect the same in education?


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

OMG. Robber Barons institutionalized political corruption, buying politicians and even state legislatures, and setting standards for the working classes so low that labor unrest forced governments to bring out the state and federal troops and private armies to suppress the unrest.

People who do not know there history are more dangerous to the society than the venal among us.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Well, depends, Marshall. Life can be pretty good if you can call out the national guard to shoot dead the strikers at your coal mines.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

marshallz10: I disagree. most businessmen are going to be greedy and would sell their mother to make a profit. we expect that. the problem is not the businessmen (actually their greed makes us better off). the problem is with the govt that is so willing to cut deals with these businessmen. If we had a govt that would refuse to give subsidies and grants to business people, then the greed of these businessmen would work to our advantage.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

What circular logic. Governments are "owned" by those people. I rest my case.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

the robber barons did more for the good of society than any govt in history.

HOOT!

Someone is sorely in need of a few history lessons and a good loosening of the blinders.

One of the bright young men who want to take us back to 1910...


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Exactly, Marshallz. Government AND industry are greedy and corrupt cronies going back and forth through a revolving door leading to very comfy retirements. The people be damned.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Let me supply some facts. According to wikipedia, the price of kerosene dropped by nearly 80% over the life of the Standard Oil company, owned by John D. Rockefeller. Think of the millions who benefited from his "greed".

Also on wikipedia is the record of his philanthropy.

I realize these facts don't fit the liberal narrative about rich people, but......facts are facts.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

My favorite stories about Standard Oil are how they crushed their competition by grossly underpricing their fuel in the shared market, well below costs, driving the other company bankrupt. Then price gouging when the competition left. That only stopped when they broke up the company.

You see a similar situation now, with all the supposedly separate oil companies sharing resources, colluding on price in the same market, and doing their best to shut out the competition by any means possible.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

26 cent Kerosene arrived at how?
You will also have to defend all the pollution law suits against Standard Oil. All of them! That would be destruction rather than greed one buttressing the other!


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

I am sure the consumers loved the greed of John Rockefeller. and I am sure they loved even more those grossly underpriced Kerosene. haha!!
since when are people evil for pricing their product too low. :)


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

I would prefer to take car service to work rather than public transportation I believe the government should in some way support that &give me a voucher for my travel to & from rather than pouring good money after bad into potentially unsafe subway system.
Ain't gonna happen!


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

These "captains of industry" did deign to put money into charity - we've got Carnegie Hall, Rockefeller Center... I spent many a happy childhood hour in our small Wisconsin town's Carnegie library. Like with so many - all that largesse bears their names in testiment.

But remember the factory workers suffered inhumane treatment, and worked in horrible conditions for low wages without any hope of forming unions. The continuous supply of immigrants and the attendant language barriers just added to the problem. Money made off the backs of the low wage powerless workers could buy off any attempt to question the practices of industry. Just look at some of the political cartoons of the time depicting the reach of money, power, and abuse.

Somehow the namesake feudal robber barrons who charged large tolls for shipping goods across their land now seem almost pale by comparison.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

To conservatives: He's all yours!

With what some conservatives have had to say in H.T. over the years, I do feel badly for conservatives who must cringe when reading some of it. Why very few if any fellow conservatives refuse to challenge some of this stuff is beyond me, though.
By either defending or by not challenging - ALL of this stuff and the stuff of the past ( we all know what that is)is then assimilated into the mix as the definition of what makes up an American conservative.
Silence or the actual defense of such questionable ideas has not worked out for conservatives, particularly in the voting booth.
For every one person who states an odd, objectionable or outright false political statement, there are perhaps hundreds of thousands who would agree and who make those statements also. And all this is heard by the voters.

But - everyone has the freedom of choice...freedom to defend such statements, freedom to be silent as they are said, but also freedom to base their vote on the effects those statements have upon those who hear/ read them.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

"I owe my soul to the company store!"

Yeah... just the kind of life we need to revert back to... NOT!


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Carnegie-a man who was ruthless in his pursuit of control and wealth-destroyed peoples lives on Sunday for fun and entertainment and then when he got old he 'gave' the money back to the people in the form of libraries and we hail him as a philanthropist, but whose money did he use to buy his way into heaven? How many starved and how many livelihoods taken away so he could serve his own ends.

We do not need Robberbarons running the world and 'allowing' us the occasional perk at their whim. We the people can have libraries if we use our money as a group to pay for them-we dont have to run the money through a monster and that goes for most things in life.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Well, if it's a private school, then I shouldn't be forced to pay for it. I don't pay (directly) for someone's church. Though I think I probably do indirectly through their tax exemptions.

These so-called 'charter' schools are nothing more than a parasite on tax-supported public schools. They're sucking the life out of public schools. They can pick and choose who they want and who can afford them. There is little to no accountability through government institutions. They are the perfect example for the decline of public education in this country.

-Ron-


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

fouquieria: I quite agree. You shouldnt have to pay for anyone's schooling. that's the problem with our public school system as it now is. we end up paying for other people's schools, and the schools are horrible.

if we had a voucher system, everyone would be responsible for spending the voucher money that they receive. You wouldn't have to pay for anyone else.

and it's even worse, b/c people who send their child to a private school ALSO are required to pay the public school costs (usually via property taxes).


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

That's their choice to use private schools rather than the public schools provided by the state through property taxes collected.

And I'm betting that public schools would be a lot better if everyone's children attended them...


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Why would public schools be better if everyone attended them? b/c they would have more money?

why would an institution that has no incentive to improve, innovate, or excel ever improve?

Most of don't try harder at something unless we see it to be in our best interests. is it different with libs?


 o
Alabama gives parents a choice??

I guess that choice is on hold.

A week after a sweeping and controversial education bill was adopted by the Alabama Legislature, the measure is on hold, with a circuit judge and the state's supreme court reviewing separate lawsuits filed over it.

After the school bill was sent to a committee, it emerged three times as long, leading many to believe the legislation had been written long in advance. Its provisions include tax credits for parents who move their children from struggling schools to other public schools, or to private schools.

The bill is also being reviewed by the Alabama Department of Education, which this week said it had found nine distinct areas of concern in the measure, from an inconsistent definition of a "failing school" to outdated testing criteria. Several of the agency's points revolve around money, from new transportation costs and federal funding issues to "a yet-to-be-determined negative impact" on the state's Education Trust Fund.

After the bill was substantially revised in committee, State Superintendent Thomas Bice withdrew his support for the measure.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Seems some home schooling parents have had enough....

snip "Take Erinn Cameron Warton, an evangelical Christian who homeschools her children. Warton, a scientist, says she was horrified when she opened a homeschool science textbook and found a picture of Adam and Eve putting a saddle on a dinosaur. "I nearly choked," says the mother of three. "When researching homeschooling curricula, I found that the majority of Christian homeschool textbooks are written from this ridiculous perspective. " snip

Be sure to click on the embedded link to one of these text books.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Good grief, David! It has the effect of making me glad I attended public schools, and that my children did, as well! And for the record, values are taught at home.

I spoke with a young girl last year who was educated with a religiously slanted young Earth perception... and it was like talking to someone without any sense of logic or reason. I can't imagine how those children will grow up to fit in with the rest of society... and avoid being laughed at.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

I guess next you all will be claiming that the universe does not rest upon an infinite stack of infinitely large turtles? C'mon, what do you suppose is underneath the universe?


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

We owe our poor children an equal education, but let's not punish them by forcing them to sit next to a snobbish kid in an elite public school or private school.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

An equal education might cure part of that...


 o
And here is what they are teaching in Louisiana

An American history textbook used by some schools in Louisiana's voucher system has caused a bit of a stir over passages describing 1960s counterculture. America: Land I Love teaches eight graders that during the '60s, "Many young people turned to drugs and immoral lifestyles; these youth became known as hippies. They went without bathing, wore dirty, ragged, unconventional clothing, and deliberately broke all codes of politeness or manners... Many of the rock musicians they followed belonged to Eastern religious cults or practiced Satan worship." This is only the latest outcry over textbooks used in Louisiana voucher schools. Other textbooks claim that "[t]he majority of slave holders treated their slaves well" and "[d]inosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

How can that be!!!! How can the teachers teach that !


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 12, 13 at 11:23

That's what puzzles me too

The teachers are neither literate nor educated, at all. And they are passing this aliteracy on to the next generation.

Anti-intellectualism is now officially a principle of our education system.


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Mention of Carnegie reminds me that the Scots were among the first to provide free public education. (And many Scots immigrants to America had a leg up *because* of this.)

OK, we know the Scots to be close with a penny. Why would they pay to have a literate population? Some benefit to business? Hmm?

Businesses LOVE taxpayer's money. It's 'nobody's' money, easy to take. There's no oversight once it's *out of sight*. (The problem with schools YOUR kid doesn't attend.)

Businesses running "Charter schools" are getting on the gravy train. Where they can't cherry-pick, they do no better than public schools. They have no incentive to improve education. They hire newly-graduated teachers cheap and work them until they quit. Turnover is huge. Vouchers are not an answer to good public education, but they are a a boon to these businesses. You don't think they are lobbying, do you?


 o
RE: Alabama gives parents a choice!!

Apparently, the messages regarding insults, forum rules, and decorum have gone unread...


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here