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A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 22:52

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans - my fellow veterans - whose future you stole

Tomas Young enlisted after 9/11/01 and was sent to Iraq. Five days after he got there a bullet from an AK-47 severed his spine. Another struck his knee.

The incident turned Young into one of the most vocal veteran critics of the Iraq War. He has, however, saved his most powerful criticism for what he claims will be his last. Young says he'll die soon, but not before writing a letter to Bush and former Vice President Cheney on the 10th anniversary of the Iraq War.

The letter to George Bush and Richard Cheney

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I would expect you've read the thousands of grateful letters from veterans to president Bush also? By the way, his donated F150 brought $300,000 at auction to benefit housing for veterans. George Bush is very popular among veterans. How do I know, as a veteran, I know many more.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Cheney and HAL made their money, so who cares about this stiff?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 19, 13 at 23:19

Bush is not very popular among veterans, Bush is a joke though, and good for a laugh. And a lot of veterans don't get many laughs these days.

And I know many veterans, too. Including my SIL, who, along with my DD and grandchildren, live with me. And I know his friends, and none of them think much of Bush, either. They all spent a year, or more, in Iraq or Afghanistan, or both.

Without George Bush's war, none of this would be happening to the men and women who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

If Bush hadn't started the illegitimate war in Iraq, lied to the American people, and kept us in Afghanistan long after our usefulness ended, there wouldn't be any veterans, and there wouldn't be any veterans who need housing.

And our treatment of veterans is shameful. They can't get jobs, they lack decent housing, suicides are rampant, homelessness, lack of medical care, it goes on and on.

And this is how we treat them.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Mom, how many vets do you personally know and talk to each week? Veterand DO like Bush.Lets not forget how many DEms also backed the war.And the fact that this pres xcarries on, while assasinating at his wish.
As a reci[pient of VA care, and a DAV, I am quite happy with my treatment by VA. I go to the VAMC regularly, and talk to vets daily. I have friends who work at VAMC and DAV. I do get feedback. Yep, there are some cases which defy logic, there are great needs and the pressure is on to improve service. But it is good for the vast majority.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Bush is not popular among veterans. He is wildly unpopular. How do I know? As a veteran, I am positive that people have not forgotten the damage that he has done to this country.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

As a recipient of VA care, and a DAV

So is my BIL and those he speaks with have little respect for either George W Bush or Dick Cheney.

Veterans in Santa Barbara and Los Angeles / Santa Monica organized the Arlington West memorials.

Arlington West - Santa Monica

Arlington West - Santa Barbara


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Dh is a vet. of Viet Nam and is retired military as are most of my BILs.

They must hang with different vets than do you.

He has a 33 year old vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan who works for him along with another 42 year old vet of Afghanistan.
Those guys, although living now in this very red state, must also hang with different vets than do you, also.

Although my husband is a quasi-conservative(ish) retired military man, many many military of today are no longer almost always only conservatives as they once were. Times, they are a'changing.
The military as a whole can no longer can be counted upon to vote as a conservative block.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I dont hang with em, I work with em. Yes, fewer soldiers vote as republicans now. Partially due to the makeup of the personnel today.Not hard to figure that one out.
My district is mainly rural so I see more support for Bush and the conservatives, natural I guess. I also deal with combat vets, not REMFS whos attitudes can differ vastly from vets who actually do combat rather than grouse on the backfields. I dont get paid to say what I see and hear, so I dont really give a hoot. I never was a big fan of either Bush. But about every kid in this area is a vet of Iraq, most seem to have respect for Bush. I know he has support among the Vietnam veterans who belong to our local Viet Vet club, the VFW and the Legion where I am a life member. I do know O is not so appreciated.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I know he has support among the Vietnam veterans who belong to our local Viet Vet club, the VFW and the Legion where I am a life member. I do know O is not so appreciated.

What is your membership total?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I'm a vet and live very near an AFB and our daughter goes to school with the active duty's kids. So my anecdotal input is simply that all my peeps are not for Boosh. He broke the military so in an official capacity is one thing, away from base its another. 5 deployments will do that to you.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

That was a very sad letter to read. It's happening all over this country. Almost 5000 of our service people are dead ,and the the cost of the war and taking care of the wounded will end up costing trillions. Bush and Cheney should be rotting in prison. Why was a heart wasted on this evil cretin when it could have saved a decent human being?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Retired disabled service connected vet, life member American legion. Been to the VA hospital an average of twice a week for the last two years with lots of time between appointments. Ride the bus to and from with other vets. Talk a lot. We all think Bush and Cheney should be in prison for war crimes.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

A Vietnam Vet here and I believe the administrations that took us to and through Vietnam should be in prison for war crimes, and the Bush Cheney regime and all that supported the Iraq war, and there are some in the current administration that are guilty of war crimes.

Let's sentence them all, not just the ones we hate.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Okay, well, we can all pull out some veteran we know and all their friends too, or claim how many veterans we know "as one ourselves" and continue the urination contest as to who knows the most vets who do, or do not like Bush .... or we could focus on the letter, and discuss why this particular vet is or isn't justified in feeling the way he does.

What he says seems pretty straightforward to me, and doesn't in any way seem to "defy logic" (an earlier reference to how vets who disfavor Bush feel). He's passionate, but not hyperbolic, and I'd like to hear from some vets why he in particular is wrong, instead of trying to stack up who has the most anecdotes to back their opinion.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

All presidents receive letters, you probably wouldn't think this gentleman was speaking for all of you either.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Marquest, I attend 3 Legions and 2 vets club as well as the 1 Nam Vets. I would hazard a guess of about 500 active per post and 150 for the Nam vets.We have a National Guard Stryker unit based in our little town and an artillery and support Army reserve units just down the road which both of our sons were in. Both units were activated to the desert wars. Most members right now are Nam vets and 1st desert war vets, it generally takes a few years for the newest veterans to become members. I will say we have a very good support service for our veterans, the service officers do good work. The VA med center in Erie is super. I wish Id entered the system 40 years ago. The DAV guys work very hard for us. I know they speak highly of Bush and they have posters, etrc on their office walls which lead me to believe that O is not too popular..


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I am sure all the liberated Iraqis and Kurds are celebrating Cheney's "lust for power". :)


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"We all think Bush and Cheney should be in prison for war crimes."

That's what I'm sayin'!

Enemies foreign OR domestic... Bush/Cheney was a dastardly domestic duo! Prison might be too easy on them...


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

If libs had their way, Saddam would be alive and still using his gold toilet seats and Bush/Cheney would be in prison. Do you see now how becoming liberal means you lose your common sense?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Go to Walter Reed Army Hospital in DC and talk to the young men and women (and their families) who are there and have been for several years learning to live with their new disabilities. Few have anything good to say (I'm being nice) about Bush/Cheney and they are the ones who have been personally and directly affected by the decisions and lies of the dynamic duo.

I have spoken directly to them so no link, just firsthand information.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

or cornopean, you could say Liberals are questioning if the lost of our young men chasing WMD that did not exist was worth ....
-Thousands of American children growing up without their mother or father,
-Mothers and Fathers no longer have their son and daughter to hug.
-Our Military taken from their family with multiple deployment because the military was so thin.
-A collapsed American economy losing trillions of dollars a year paying for an invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, We have falling unsafe bridges because our tax dollars are rebuilding another country. Money we are still paying today.

DO YOU EVEN REMEMBER WHY THIS WAR WAS MANUFACTURED????? DON'T GIVE ME THAT TIRED BRAIN WASHED HUSSAIN IS GONE STORY YOU WERE FEED.

They may have you fooled that it is okay to say you were rescuing a country but the lie was there was WMD. Did they find any? It has nothing to do with Liberal or Conservative. It is has to do with right and wrong and the dead and wounded Americans. A lot more than 4 have died that conservative are rolling on the floor screaming Benghazi but forget the thousands that died for a lie that is no problem. A PROVEN LIE. Not a faux news conspiracy theory story.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 20, 13 at 19:35

Invading Iraq was wrong. It was a sovereign country, no threat to us, our invasion was illegal. Against all the laws of common decency. There were no WMD's, and Bush/Cheney are without so much as a fiber of morality, they were willing to tarnish the reputation of Colin Powell to further their agenda - money for Haliburton, oil for Bush.

I'm certain the families of the American men and women killed in Iraq and Afghanistan don't hold Bush and Cheney in high regard. Or the families of the American men and women wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan.

FYI - if there aren't wars, there aren't veterans. The Government is still paying benefits for the Civil War and the Spanish American War, and WWI and WWII. The government will be paying for these wars for the next hundred years.

If we want to get our budget and expenditures under control then we have to consider the consequences of war, not only in the short term, but in the long term, too. The very long term. And we have to be willing to stand up to immoral leaders who want to lead us into war for the sake of NOTHING, but death and pain and heartache. The cost is too great.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

DITTO to everything Marquest said. Saved me a lot of typing.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Why would vets be "grateful" to Bush and Cheney? Please explain.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

If libs had their way, Saddam would be alive and still using his gold toilet seats and Bush/Cheney would be in prison. Do you see now how becoming liberal means you lose your common sense?

Libs? You sound so stupid. This young vet is not mentioned once on freerepublic.com. You embarass yourself.

You may hide yourselves and wrap yourselves in the flag, but the truth is exposed in what you say. I was a piece of fodder during Vietnam too. Absolutely disgusting ideologues!

-Ron-


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

If libs had their way, Saddam would be alive and still using his gold toilet seats and Bush/Cheney would be in prison.

I don't care what Saddam went potty on but I would like to see Bush/Cheney in prison for a long time.

Saddam may have had gold toilet seats but hundreds of thousands of people also had their lives. Now there is neither all because Bush wanted revenge. Iraqi's had their homes, jobs, and families that were together. They had an education system, hospitals and adequate medical care as well many other things that we take for granted.

As bad as it was most knew how to navigate the system and lived their lives like anyone else. Men and women went to school, many wore western dress and drove cars. There was electricity, medical care and they lived lives similar to ours. They had homes, plans and futures. We went in and it all changed.

Now families are scattered, women wear hijabs and can't drive or go to school; many refugees who fled the country are still living apart from each other with relatives and / or in squalor in camps in Syria, Jordan and other countries and can't return because they have nothing left because we destroyed it. They have no homes to return to or jobs or money. There is sporadic or sometimes no electricity, little medical care. Few universities or schools. Almost everything is gone and the country is in ruins as are people's lives all because of the lies of Bush/Cheney.

While we sat in our comfy living rooms watching "shock and awe" with a cold beer and a pizza, many Iraqi's lost everything their families had built over years and for some, centuries. Those that stayed lived in more fear than they have ever known. There is no longer a system to navigate or much of a country left.

Not to mention that thousands of Americans would still have their lives and their limbs and mental health. Now, not because of Saddam but because of of Bush and Cheney they don't. Go to Walter Reed and see - and those are the one's that got to come home.

It wasn't up to us to decide what was good for the Iraqi's just like it isn't up to anyone to decide what is best for us. So take your tall tales that we saved the Iraqi's and educate yourself instead of believing what that you are spoon fed by our former "leaders" and those that have profited from others misery.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Hey... this is what happens when you play chess with the world's nations and leaders because you have the power and hardware... arming certain factions, setting up coups... and then when your chess pieces don't play the games you want your way, you then start a war under false pretenses to take them out...

Call it what you want, but it has nothing to do with democracy or freedoms or the American way of life that's so perfect... and who asked us to bring it to them gift wrapped anyway? It has to do with money, greed, no integrity whatsoever, and the entitled idea that you are the world's police force.

Wars will never stop happening because enough profit and power are never enough... and the soldiers lost are just collateral damage. What's to complain about, I ask sarcastically... aren't the "right" people getting exactly what they want out of it all?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 8:56

"If libs had their way, Saddam would be alive and still using his gold toilet seats and Bush/Cheney would be in prison."

That should be "or" not "and"


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"And our treatment of veterans is shameful. They can't get jobs, they lack decent housing, suicides are rampant, homelessness, lack of medical care, it goes on and on."

Yep. Even after serving their country, our vets struggle, and some have to go without those things you mention. Meanwhile, illegal aliens can come to the US, commit crimes, and STILL get "benefits" they have done NOTHING to earn! It's the America we live in, the America the electorate voted for. We take better care of criminals with no right to be here, than the men and women who served their country, and liberals are all for it.

By the way, while the US military had their tuition assistance yanked, we're helping Pakistan support higher ed for THEIR students. Rep. Ted Poe adds that "Since the sequester, the administration has approved $37 million in foreign aid to Pakistan." We have money we could spend on our military. We just don't have leadership with the will to do so.

Bush failed to defend our nation against foreign invasion. Left the door open to whomever wanted to walk through. A dereliction of duty for which he will never be held accountable. And I'm sure he feels not the slightest regret for what he has done to our nation. He's no better than the current president in that regard.

Here is a link that might be useful: US funds Pakistan education


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

nikoleta wrote,

Even after serving their country, our vets struggle, and some have to go without those things you mention. Meanwhile, illegal aliens can come to the US, commit crimes, and STILL get "benefits" they have done NOTHING to earn! .... We take better care of criminals with no right to be here, than the men and women who served their country

Could you list the specific benefits that convicted criminals who are illegal aliens receive that veterans are denied?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

" It's the America we live in, the America the electorate voted for."

Yes they voted for an administration that has been tougher on illegals than any previous administration and has done more for veterans than any previous generation.....

Apparently you voted against that.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Could you list the specific benefits that convicted criminals who are illegal aliens receive that veterans are denied?

SNORK!

I LOLz'ed!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Yes they voted for an administration that has been tougher on illegals than any previous administration and has done more for veterans than any previous generation....."

Hogwash. This administration has turned over 2,000 illegal aliens lose on the American people, and has plans to release more of them in March. Your government doesn't treat your people that way. I just want what you have. A government that protects me like yours does you. A government that deports illegals, the way yours does. A government that takes care of Canadians first. The way yours does. I don't think you should have to put up with soldiers in need while your government takes care of illegal aliens instead, and I can't figure out why Americans should put up with it either.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 20:00

And hogwash to you nikoleta.......

In four years, Mr. Obama’s administration has deported as many illegal immigrants as the administration of George W. Bush did in his two terms, largely by embracing, expanding and refining Bush-era programs to find people and send them home. By the end of this year, deportations under Mr. Obama are on track to reach two million, or nearly the same number of deportations in the United States from 1892 to 1997.

You, of all people, should be glad he's deporting these lawbreakers, so they aren't taking jobs away from Americans, and using up all the benefits that should be going to Americans, and to veterans, and those two million aren't committing crimes against Americans.

Those two thousand, I'm sure they'll be rounded up and deported sooner rather than later.

Get your facts straight before you rant.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

" This administration has turned over 2,000 illegal aliens lose on the American people, and has plans to release more of them in March."

Turned "them" loose on the American people......like a pack of dogs?

Nik your intense dislike for the President is colouring the real facts......no sense trying to have a conversation. I actually feel sorry for you, truly I do , but I also feel that you are representative of what it's really wrong in America.
Not because you are strong in your position about illegal aliens but because you simply will not look at the issue objectively and honestly .....


edited to change an inappropriately used word

This post was edited by chase on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 8:38


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Turned "them" loose on the American people......like a pack of dogs?"

Yep.

"I actually feel sorry for you, truly I do , but I also feel that you are representative of what it's really wrong in America."

Here's a hot tip, Chase. Americans have no obligation to settle for less than you do.

There is nothing "wrong" with wanting my government to protect me like yours does you. Your government deports illegals. It doesn't turn them loose. Americans deserve the same protection from their government Canadians get from theirs. I can't think of a single reason we should settle for less, nor have you provided one.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik, I take it that you haven't read the RNC's autopsy of the 2012 presidential elections and the recommendations included in the report.

On the other hand, please continue your rhetoric to guarantee similar results as those the GOP had in 2012.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 11:09

Hmm....guess you didn't read the post. Here's the link.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik, that's the problem YOUR government does deport " them" and in record numbers but you refuse to accept that even though it is a fact. Not sure where you get the idea our government does a stellar job in that area...they don't.

You also refuse to understand the nature of sequester and how the budget cuts affect all programmes ...even the ones you like.

The cuts were targeted and specific...housing these non violent, illegals costs tons of money in food lodging and guards. The budget got cut becasue YOUR Congress could not get it's act together and do their job.

These illegals are going to get a pathway to citizenship and the Republicans are on board......

Hang on it's coming !


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Not sure where you get the idea our government does a stellar job in that area...they don't."

They try. Check out this cool site. I want what you have!

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadians get to HELP deport illegals!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Maybe they try but YOUR government is actually doing it and doing it in record numbers....a fact you refuse to admit and quite frankly that makes your point moot.

" I want what you have " You already have a very successful deportation programme so I can only assume you mean ....Universal Health Care and Gay Marriage .


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

so I can only assume you mean ....Universal Health Care and Gay Marriage

We can try another mantra we see in HT -- Nik wants your home and acreage because it's < drum roll > class warfare < trumpet blare > and wealth distribution < cymbals clashing >.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

nikoleta wrote,

Even after serving their country, our vets struggle, and some have to go without those things you mention. Meanwhile, illegal aliens can come to the US, commit crimes, and STILL get "benefits" they have done NOTHING to earn! .... We take better care of criminals with no right to be here, than the men and women who served their country

Could you list the specific benefits that convicted criminals who are illegal aliens receive that veterans are denied?

I asked this upthread but you did not reply, so it's just possible you might have missed it. A failure to reply again, though, will resonably be taken as a retraction of your claim.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"I can only assume you mean ....Universal Health Care and Gay Marriage ."

How you get "Universal Health Care and Gay Marriage" out of "Wanted by the CBSA" only has to make sense to you, chase.

To me, the website looks more like a plea from your government to get citizens involved in turning in illegal aliens. I can't think of any reason I should settle for less than you do. You have a government that puts up pictures of illegals, and tells Canadian citizens:

"The following individuals are the subject of an active Canada-wide arrest warrant, issued pursuant to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

By publicizing their identities, the CBSA is enlisting the help of the public in identifying these individuals and reporting any relevant information to the CBSA.

Take no action to apprehend these persons yourself. Report any information to the Border Watch Line at 1-888-502-9060."

What a great website! I want my government to do the same thing! I can't think of any reason your safety and security are more important than mine, chase. I want the safety and security you have! I want my government to get illegals off the street for me, just just like your government does for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wanted! Report Illegals to CBSA


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Doesn't the USA also post photos of criminals they are looking for?

Here is a link that might be useful: Wanted


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

nikoleta wrote,

What a great website! I want my government to do the same thing! I can't think of any reason your safety and security are more important than mine, chase. I want the safety and security you have! I want my government to get illegals off the street for me, just just like your government does for you.

Do you believe that illegal aliens pose a greater threat to your safety than do native-born Americans?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik said upthread:

"By the way, while the US military had their tuition assistance yanked, we're helping Pakistan support higher ed for THEIR students. Rep. Ted Poe adds that "Since the sequester, the administration has approved $37 million in foreign aid to Pakistan." We have money we could spend on our military. We just don't have leadership with the will to do so."

Why spend on military? You already have the world's biggest.

Why not spend it on Health or Education? You don't lead the world in either...


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik said :"... while the US military had their tuition assistance yanked..."

To which Shax replied: "Why spend on military? You already have the world's biggest."

IMO it's not quite the same thing. "Military spending" would be troops, weapons, etc. Not tuition for education.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Sell a jet fighter. That'll probably cover the $37 million, with change...

"USAF budget data in 2010, along with other sources, projected the F-35 to have a flyaway cost from US$89 million to US$200 million over the planned production run."

This post was edited by shaxhome on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 23:21


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Doesn't the USA also post photos of criminals they are looking for?"

Careful. Canada shows pictures of illegal aliens to its citizens and asks citizens for their help. Canada asks citizens to report illegals to their government. For the good of the country. I want the same thing for my country.

Your link has nothing to do with the US government asking Americans to report illegal aliens.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

nikoleta wrote,

Canada shows pictures of illegal aliens to its citizens and asks citizens for their help. Canada asks citizens to report illegals to their government.

False.

I would be embarrassed to make statements that are so easily debunked. They would make me appear to be completely blinded by bias. A pattern of posting falsehoods would likely destroy my credibility, and rightly so.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Careful? What exactly does that mean?

Canada shows pictures of illegal aliens to its citizens and asks citizens for their help.

The pictures on The Canadian Border Services Agency website are pictures of illegal aliens that are also criminals. Canadians are not out hunting down all illegal aliens.

Your government also has pictures of "most wanted" on various websites including U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. I would bet that many if not most of the people on that list are not in the USA legally.


~Ann


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

A criminal is a criminal, foreign OR domestic. Fact.

But why don't we return to the original intent of this thread... to show where the true criminal activity has taken and does take place, and who the real victims and perpetrators are... the victims? Thousands, if not millions, of citizens and soldiers the world over. The perpetrators? Our own past leaders and those military brass who turn their backs on such crimes against humanity.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

A pattern of posting falsehoods would likely destroy my credibility, and rightly so.

Its been known for some time that most of the usual suspects have zero credibility.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 12:05

asking Americans to report illegal alien

...."their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals"

1984


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

This country was basically begun and built by illegal immigrants... namely, the ancestors of a pretty big majority. Native Americans could look upon us as illegal aliens, and they wouldn't be wrong.

But since America is what it is, we should be flattered that people want to immigrate.

And now... what about the OP?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Careful? What exactly does that mean?"

Too late. You already stepped in it.

"But why don't we return to the original intent of this thread... to show where the true criminal activity has taken and does take place, and who the real victims and perpetrators are... the victims?"

We are talking about the victims. American citizens. In this case, American soldiers.

I can't think of a single reason the American labor pool should be artificially enlarged with millions of illegal workers, forcing American soldiers to compete against illegal aliens for jobs in their own country. Why is this OK with liberals?

I can't think of a single reason we can't take care of our own veterans' medical needs, since we feed, house, clothe, educate, medicate and hospitalize millions of illegal aliens with absolutely no reimbursement from them or their dead beat nations. But then, I'm not a liberal, so robbing our own people to serve foreign invaders has never been my idea of good government.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Jodi, I don't think there was a federal immigration law before 1882 or so. The immigrants weren't illegal or legal. They just were. A lot of our immigrants later passed thru Ellis--legally. So I don't think we really had much illegal immigration when the USA was being settled and growing. I'm confident others can fill in the considerable blanks here.

I think the Native Americans can consider our ancestors invaders, which they were.
------
"And now... what about the OP?"

As to the OP, I don't see a question there; only a copy of the letter. It's certainly a powerful and dramatic statement of the soldier's opinion.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

American veterans are being refused jobs picking lettuce and oranges for less than minimum wage?

That is truly disgraceful.....


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik as Jodi said unless you are American Indian you could be considered one of the few you worry that is getting so much. The pittance that is spent on undocumented immigrants, many are children, should be the least of your upset. We are a ATM machine to other countries. We spend so much more giving to country that do not have to step one foot on American soil.

The Congressional Research Service’s conservative estimate of total cumulative US aid to Israel (not adjusted for inflation) from 1949 through 2013 is $115 billion.

If money is your real issue. You would do better to focus your concern in another direction. Maybe somewhere that might be worth your disgust than how much money is lost to the beige people not the shade of color you see fit for the Green American dollar.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"If money is your real issue. You would do better to focus your concern in another direction. Maybe somewhere that might be worth your disgust than how much money is lost to the beige people not the shade of color you see fit for the Green American dollar."

Marquest, that was petty, mean-spirited and a product of your tunnel vision.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Well of course there weren't any immigration laws way back when... I would rather think Natives of the Americas didn't think they'd need any...


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik, there would be tens of thousands fewer wounded veterans, those suffering from PTSD, declared disabled, etc. if President Bush and Vice President Cheney hadn't lied the U.S. public into war with Iraq.

Instead of flinging mud at immigrants, why not analyze why there are so many veterans, and what productive lives they could have had but for the criminal actions of the Bush Administration.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:18

Nik, there would be tens of thousands fewer wounded veterans, those suffering from PTSD, declared disabled, etc. if President Bush and Vice President Cheney hadn't lied the U.S. public into war with Iraq.

Instead of flinging mud at immigrants, why not analyze why there are so many veterans, and what productive lives they could have had but for the criminal actions of the Bush Administration.

*

Specifically, what "criminal actions" were made by the Bush Administration, specifically who and what criminal statutes were violated?

That's a serious allegation.

I would like to know exactly what crimes were committed and why haven't they been charged and prosecuted if the evidence warrants arrests.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Or... why not analyze WHY so many go so far to enter our borders, whether legally or illegally. Surely, there must be a good amount of information to be found...


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

That's a serious allegation.

Of course it is.

And there is abundant information as to what was done to bring about a preemptive war against Iraq, torture and extraordinary rendition, training death squads in Iraq, the use of white phosphorus on the civilian population, and on and on.

If you are ignorant of the crimes of the Bush Administration, I suggest that you educate yourself.

Hint: the crimes at Abu Ghraib were not an aberration.

Here's one source: Bush Convicted of War Crimes in Absentia


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 20:23

what "criminal actions" were made by the Bush Administration, specifically who and what criminal statutes were violated?

President Bush ordered the invasion of a sovereign country, with no provocation, and no threat to the United States from Iraq. The Iraqi's didn't ask us to invade, there was no Iraqi opposition pleading with us for arms. Sure, Saddam Hussein was a totalitarian despot, but he was certainly not the only one, not even the only one with oil. Bush was wrong. Bush he was led, by the ring in his nose, by Cheney and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.

What George Bush did is illegal

President Obama has had the wisdom not to fall into this trap with Syria, as tragic, and heartbreaking as the situation in Syria is.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Of course that would be your vision Elvis. Because I do not live in the same tunnel that you seem to think as seeing the light of bigoted American Indian comments, Illegal alien is a clean tunnel. I guess taking you and others out of that comfort zone is mean-spirited.

I will happily stay in my tunnel. There is not enough soap and water to clean my vision of your tunnel.

This post was edited by marquest on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 21:54


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

All of us want to know why BushCo wasn't charged with war crimes. And why no one talks about why there are many places abroad they can't go.

Well. all of us except for the hopelessly blind.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"All of us want to know why BushCo wasn't charged with war crimes."

Or why the rest of the world puts up with the USA's illegal and immoral antics playing at Global Police Force... with emphasis on the "force"...


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Bush, Cheney and company should be rotting in a prison somewhere convicted of war crimes.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I can't think of a single reason we can't take care of our own veterans' medical needs

Then why don't we do that?

LANSING, Mich. - American war veterans are having a hard time getting timely medical appointments, and the Department of Veteran Affairs is being accused of covering up the delays.

Testimony at a recent House oversight committee hearing showed some veterans having to wait as long as two months to see a doctor - even though the department's goal is no more than two weeks, according to the federal watchdog group Project On Government Oversight (POGO).

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 10:05

Bush, Cheney & Co are sort of in prison as they're reluctant to cross US borders. The USA is just a posh prison for them. Not sure if it's still in effect but even Vermont had arrest warrants out for them if they cross the state line. Heck, they're even unwelcome at Repub conventions, even if brother Jeb runs in 2016 you think that he'd invite "W"? But still, repulsion still is not nearly enough punishment for what they put our nation through.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 10:44

Only two months - that's pretty quick, those veterans must not live in Maryland.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Marquest, that was petty, mean-spirited and a product of your tunnel vision."

Elvis,

It's more like Dunning-Kruger. When you "know" it takes only pittance to subsidize millions of illegals, you don't need to use your head or real numbers. It's not an argument made from competence. But did you notice the CONFIDENCE? ("The pittance that is spent on undocumented immigrants, many are children, should be the least of your upset.") Got that? Marquest even "knows" what should upset me. Billions of dollars going to care for millions of illegal aliens at the expense of our soldiers should be the "least of my upset." But that is a liberal view, and I'm not a liberal.

Her remark about "tan people" is an effort to change the subject, injecting color into a discussion about illegal behavior. It's also a personal attack, but that's what liberals do when their arguments come under scrutiny. Hey...look over here!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik will be receiving a message from Reince Priebus soon.

Pssst! Ignore what he has to say.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Billions of dollars going to care for millions of illegal aliens at the expense of our soldiers"

Nik , do you have one iota of factual information to back up that claim?

Just you sayin' it don't make it so.......


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik , do you have one iota of factual information to back up that claim?

Not the tiniest shred of evidence. None.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik what I find incredible is Conservatives use derogotory terms, and present false info that when proven incorrect will not comment.

But will scream bullying, personal attack, creepy, stalking. Any diversion from addressing the issues without derogatory names and presenting false info.

I know it might be disappointing to you and your ilk but if someone corrects your statements......they are not stalking you, bullying you, personal attacks, and it is not creepy. Perhaps that is the problem why it is so hard for conservatives to understand. Romney certain did not get the harm he was doing using the term you seem to enjoy using to demean a segment of the population you do not like.

It would be nice if your sensitivity moved beyond your air space.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

My heart goes out to the dying young man and his testament declaiming Bush and Cheney and their administrations. So much loss, hurt, costs, and subverted faith attributable to those two cretins.

To Nik, you embarrass me. Please check the link:

Here is a link that might be useful: wanted?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Too bad our usual suspects don't feel the same sense of embarrassment when reality pokes their bubble.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Which suspects would those be?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nik: "It's also a personal attack, but that's what liberals do when their arguments come under scrutiny. Hey...look over here!"

Nik, I made the statement about tunnel vision because marquest's statement was just mean and highly personal toward another poster, in this case, you. I would drop from exhaustion if I posted every time I wanted to do this (no matter who the target is or who is throwing the personal insults), and frankly I'm happily surprised that I didn't get spanked for defending a conservative.

But! Your statement (quoted above) is along the same mind set as marquest's was in her post. Difference being hers was targeting you personally and yours is one of those blanket statements deriding (all) conservatives or in this case, (all) liberals. That's all.

And then marquest comes right back "Nik what I find incredible is Conservatives use derogotory terms, and present false info that when proven incorrect will not comment."

I give up.

-----------------

As to the OP, I gave my comments upthread.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

So does the government do this to veterans, nika?

Here is a link that might be useful: civil law for immigrants?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Which suspects would those be?

The small group of usual suspects who confidently assert notfacts and disdain those people who aren't the rightpeople, then run away or dissemble when someone tries to nail them down. The usual suspects.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Nik what I find incredible is Conservatives use derogotory terms, and present false info that when proven incorrect will not comment."

That's not my style. I don't need to resort to name calling. I don't waste time with pettifoggery.

"Difference being hers was targeting you personally and yours is one of those blanket statements deriding (all) conservatives or in this case, (all) liberals."

Excellent point. It's a difference that makes a difference. Liberals here continue to make personal attacks and change the subject. When they stop, I'll stop bringing it up. Any liberal here is welcome to call out a fellow liberal on disrupting conversations. I won't hold my breath.

"Billions of dollars going to care for millions of illegal aliens at the expense of our soldiers"

"Nik , do you have one iota of factual information to back up that claim?"

Logic. I know of no way to spend money on illegal aliens and American soldiers at the same time. You have not explained how that would be possible. I am listening.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

a fitful dodge -- again


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Ah... those suspects, WxDano. Sometimes, when I haven't had enough coffee, I'm a little slow on the uptake. ;-)


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Thanks a lot, Jodi; is coffee bad for my screen? ;D


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Only if you fail to use windex and a soft cloth!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

To Nik, you embarrass me. Please check the link:

a fitful dodge -- again

Marshall, I saw a James Carville interview yesterday and he said something that HT seems to prove to be so true.

“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes”
"Mark Twain"


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Yes, a most appropriate quote from a century past.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"a fitful dodge"

Nope. Just waiting for a reply. I know of no way to spend money on illegal aliens and American soldiers at the same time. Nobody has explained how that would be possible.



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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nobody has explained how that would be possible. .

Nor have some explained how their transparently false assertions are possible either.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

a false dichotomy as a faulty dodge then?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 26, 13 at 16:11

I know of no way to spend money on illegal aliens and American soldiers at the same time.

Of course we can, just like we can spend money on women, infants and children at the same time we are spending money on old people and disabled people. Or spending money on farmers and oil companies, or presidents and preschool programs.

Sorry, but that comment makes no sense at all. The government spends money on a gazillion different programs, all running at the same time, though some are better than others. It's not an either/or situation.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Thanks, momj!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Thanks Mom from me too.....such nonsensical statements should not be allowed to stand. Sadly some, many , hear it and buy it.

Must admit I did spend some time looking through the current budget for the Illegal Alien portfolio and it's budget allocation....but I couldn't find one.

Except the one dedicated to their deportation.....now that is .big bucks!!!


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

I did spend some time looking through the current budget for the Illegal Alien portfolio and it's budget allocation....but I couldn't find one.

It's a black op. Aren't you up on your kinspeercys?!?!?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Of course we can, just like we can spend money on women, infants and children at the same time we are spending money on old people and disabled people."

Whoosh! Right over your head.

The money you spend on WIC is GONE. You cannot still spend it on "old people and disabled people."

The same is true with our government transferring billions of dollars to the care, feeding, education, housing and medical care of illegal aliens. And let's not forget about additional billions spent on the job displacement, illegals committing crimes, repeated drunk driving offenses, drunk driving murders, gang murders, cartel alignment, etc. That money is GONE, and obviously cannot ALSO be spent on our own soldiers.

Yet this administration, the Democrat party, and the liberals here have all made the same choice. They support illegals at the expense of our own. That's how liberals pay back back American soldiers.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"The same is true with our government transferring billions of dollars to the care, feeding, education, housing and medical care of illegal aliens. And let's not forget about additional billions spent on the job displacement, illegals committing crimes, repeated drunk driving offenses, drunk driving murders, gang murders, cartel alignment, etc"

Nik, again I ask...what facts do you have to back up these preposterous statements?

PS: Starting to sound like Factotem and not proud of it but this type of blatant exaggeration and mistrusts cannot go unchallenged.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 13:09

Where do you get these ideas? The morning email?

The comments are baseless, yet you continue to repeat them, over and over again. Who are you trying to convince - yourself. Certainly not those of us who disagree with you - we know these accusations are false.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

The same is true with our government transferring billions of dollars to the care, feeding, education, housing and medical care of illegal aliens.

Horse hockey False.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true. Vetted information to back up assertions would be nice.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"Nik, again I ask...what facts do you have to back up these preposterous statements?"

My claims are easy to google and a snap to confirm. Not one of you have come up a single piece of information to debunk them.

Meanwhile, Canada can't figure out how to spend the same money simultaneously on illegal aliens and their own citizens any better than we can down here. But you have the luxury of responsible leadership.

Your public safety minister is working to protect your citizens from the costs of illegal immigration. Unlike our politicians, he's doing his job and putting Canadians first.

FTA: "VANCOUVER -- Illegal immigrants take advantage of Canadian taxpayers -- not the other way around, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told critics in Parliament as he defended the use of reality TV cameras on immigrant raids.

The federal government is facing criticism on several fronts for its approval of the TV show focusing on border security after camera crews filmed the arrest of several men in Vancouver last week by officers with Canada Border Services Agency."

Way to go, Canada!


Here is a link that might be useful: Illegals hurt Canadians but not Americans?


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Nika continues to resort to "when are you going to stop beating your wife" reaction when challenged to support allegations about "illegal" aliens.


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

Way up thread I said I had tried to find information to support your claims and all I can find is information to the contrary.

I will not discuss this with you any more It's a waste of time

As far as the reality tv show goes, that was an embarrassment to the Canadian government and extremely unprofessional......you may be amused but Candadians are not


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RE: A letter to Bush/Cheney from a dying veteran

"I will not discuss this with you any more It's a waste of time."

Works for me. It's not really a discussion when only one person does the homework.

"...you may be amused but Candadians are not"

From their posts, it's clear Canadians support your government. It's working to protect their interests. That's what I want my government to do. I deserve that, just as you do.


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