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Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Posted by don_socal socal (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 1:51

From Being Liberal via Addicting Info
(M) If you think both parties are the same you really need to read this. If you know they're not the same you really need to share this. This was written by a high school English teacher, and it really needs to go viral.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Democratic Party 101: A Teacher Gives Republicans A Lesson In Facts


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Right message but way too long to go viral in my never humble estimation...


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Well, tobr, we can give you mini sound bites:

The government doesn’t give us our rights; it makes a promise to protect them. It is my belief that no person has the liberty to tell someone what is right for them. We don’t always stop to recognize that our circumstances are often much different from someone else’s, and that what might be right of us isn’t necessarily right for them.

That is one of the primary reasons that I am so socially liberal; I can choose what is right for my own life as long as I don’t harm anyone else, but I have no right to tell someone else how to live their own life.

In contrast, banning something like abortion or gay marriage imposes a single view on everyone with no room for personal choice. That is not freedom. That is not upholding the creed that “all men are created equal,” and that is where my biggest qualms with the Republican Party lie.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Here's another chunk:

Our Constitution says, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity…” Telling someone that they do not have the right to make decisions about their own body or marry the person they love is not upholding our liberties. Denying help to the most vulnerable among us is not promoting “the general Welfare,” and stigmatizing them as lazy and parasitic is, in my view, obscenely iniquitous and injudicious.

There will always be people who take advantage of the system, but the vast majority of people receiving government aid are hard-working, and often disadvantaged individuals: veterans, children, the disabled, single mothers, widows and widowers, the elderly, the mentally challenged…


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Maybe this part will strike a chord:

Many of the services provided by the government, like education and infrastructure, strengthen our nation and give us the opportunity to become active and productive participants in our society and economy.

Research shows that no personal or government investment yields greater returns than education; yet, the education budget has been dramatically slashed at the federal and state levels over the past decade.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

And this part is so true:

We had a solid and effective budget during the Clinton years (which to be fair, can be attributed to compromise between Congressional Republicans and the President) and a thriving economy, but the Bush Tax Cuts made it impossible to present a budget that was even remotely comparable to the previous decade.

We no longer had money to effectively fund education, research, renewable energy, infrastructure and other discretionary spending that serves as an investment in a growing and innovative economy (things that we were easily paying for while still running a surplus under Clinton).


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

And who's your Daddy?

In the past 4 years, Republicans have introduced more than 1,000 bills trying to limit female reproductive rights, and focused the remainder of their efforts on stripping away corporate regulations and cutting tax rates for top earners.

That is supposed to be a party that fights for the American people? They would like us to believe so, and at one point they were, but somewhere along the way that stopped being the truth. This is not the Republican Party that most of us once had enormous respect for.

Democrats are certainly not perfect and they certainly serve their own special interest groups at times, but their mission has always been and always will be to fight for the individual citizen and ensure their right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, and they have never lost sight of that promise.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

"That is one of the primary reasons that I am so socially liberal; I can choose what is right for my own life as long as I don’t harm anyone else, but I have no right to tell someone else how to live their own life."

Well duh! No one wants to be told how to live. How we get to that truth is very different. Not a different belief. It looks like you're agreeing because you agree, not because it is balanced. Step back and try to look with conservative eyes and critically decide.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

These conservative eyes, rob?

In the past 4 years, Republicans have introduced more than 1,000 bills trying to limit female reproductive rights


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

You know of what I speak. Undoubtedly, not every Republican stands behind all of those bills, any more than all Democrats are behind every Democratically backed legislation.

So don't walk a mile in their shoes, just tell them how they should walk in your's... OOPS! What was I thinking? I know it's not gonna happen. How ironic that the whole point of this post is to walk a mile in the very velvety and spectacularly magnanimous Democrat shoes, while never walking in Republicans shoddy shoes, well, is very very telling. tsk tsk!

Seeing it through Republicans' eyes instead of down Democrats' noses???? Hm.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Hypocrisy stinks and I smell it in here.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

So help me out here - I'm not trying to look DOWN on Republicans. The point of the guy's letter is to say why he prefers the Democratic Party, to say what it stands for.

What Republican eyes should I be looking through, rob? Honestly, I can only go by the examples they (the Republicans) give me (that is, the actions they take).


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

As the guy says at the link itself, rob:

This was a response that I wrote to a family friend who took issue with what she perceived to be the Democratic platform.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Thank you rob. Well said.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Again, the point of the linked article is to explain the Democratic platform.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

and your participation on this thread is to point out the superiority of the logic.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

No, it's not. I am picking out the pieces that are meaningful to me, that illustrate what I too believe is the position of the Democratic Party rather than what conservatives like to attribute it to.

Conservatives like to say that the Democrats are out to give everything away, tax people more so that we can redistribute wealth, control everything via government functions, be big brother on telling people what kind of healthcare they can have ("no operation for you, you're too old, just die already"), etc.

What Republican eyes should I be looking through, rob? Honestly, I can only go by the examples they (the Republicans) give me (that is, the actions they take).

And the examples they are giving these days are not matching the words coming out of their mouths.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

SOB [now my default "I was here"]


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

I agree with everything you said, esh.

I'm sick of hearing (from Republicans, oh, I mean independents) that of course they don't agree with everything in the platform. Like that's an excuse for ignoring all the social issues the Republicans try to force down our throat (does that phrase sound familiar?). It's ok to vote Republican and not agree with 100% of the social issues? That would not be ok with me. I could not, would not, ever vote for a party that fights so hard to force their religious views down my throat (even if I agreed with the religion!). I would not ever vote for a party that thinks it's ok to discriminate against an entire segment of our population because the views of that segment do not match their views. I would not ever vote for a party that thinks it's ok to make laws to keep that segment from enjoying the same freedoms they have. And, as a woman, I certainly would not ever vote for a party that thinks so little of my gender. That thinks we are not capable of making decisions about our own bodies.

Even if I agreed with their fiscal views (which I don't), I would not ever vote for that party.

And I am amazed that people can so easily sweep this large part of the Republican party under the rug like it doesn't exist. It has nothing to do with looking at it through Republican or Democratic eyes. It has everything to do with looking at it through human compassionate eyes.

All my opinion.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

I've asked this before and I find this a good time to restate it. So what does one do when they don't agree with either party Jill? do you eschew it all? Quit voting? Or affiliating? Many many republicans I know are sick to death of the way the party is going, but that doesn't mean they'll become democrats. Would you change?

I picked that statement because it is typical of the slandering that goes on. As though one party sees all the woes of mankind and the other is blind to it. No. We all see it. How we attack the problems is where we differ. Democrats are not more enlightened nor are Republicans. Indivdiuals can be enlightened. It's the broadstrokes that are sickening.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

I would agree with your assessment, Jill... and I think Esh pulled out very relevant pieces to think about.

Let's face it... none of our major political parties are perfect in every way... they all have issues and areas we'd like to change... but which one most embodies the spirit of America, protecting our rights as individuals and continuing the fight for equality?

Choosing a political party based upon one ideal is like breeding a dog for one characteristic... the rest of it suffers if we don't look at it as a "total package".


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

I would look at what the other options are, and make my decision on who I would vote for based on that.

But I sure know what I would not do. I would not just ignore one large side of a platform. I'm not talking about one or two things here and there that I might not agree with. I'm talking about the entire social side of the platform.

If it meant I had to vote for a different party, I would. If it meant I had to do a write in, I would.

The problem is that so many keep quiet. Sweep it under the rug. It's allowed the Republican party to become radical in their social views (my opinion!). We see it here all the time. People here, women here, claim to not support that side of the party, but they vote for them anyway. Are they doing anything to try and change that side of the party? Do they speak up loudly against those views to attempt to move the party back to a less radical position? Not that I've seen. They just continue to ignore it. Pretend it's not happening. Pretend it's not as bad as those on the left say it is and all the evidence says it is.


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So what does one do when they don't agree with either party Jill? do you eschew it all? Quit voting?

Nope, don't quit voting. Just vote for the one that represents most of what I believe in. Or in absence of that, the party that has most of what I believe in.

I am all for fiscal responsibility and balanced budget and less waste. Despite what Republicans say, their actions go against being fiscal responsible (want to cut taxes when our debt is the largest ever), having a balanced budget (defense budget goes up) and less waste (don't see any efforts to work waste issues).

So right now, the Democrats seem to be better at both the fiscal issues and WAY BETTER AT the social issues.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

And you don't see how you deign to comment like this?: "So right now, the Democrats seem to be better at both the fiscal issues and WAY BETTER AT the social issues." Really? You can't see how it is condescending at all?

I hear you Jill, but I don't know that you can understand this. Some day, it may just be that the party you find so appealing becomes less appealing. Even completley unpalatable. I assume it's a cyclic thing or the end of what it has been. You might want to keep in mind, I didn't quit having republican values just because the party has. We can't change the entire party by ourselves, but align with another party isn't going to happen either. I'm not independent or democrat in my "affiliation". I'm way more republican in the true sense of the core values. Not the fringe crazy aspect of it. Brother said just yesterday how he thinks there should be a new party. We've never agreed on anything. He's a wear black all the time, heavy metal, chains, leather, gun carrying individual and I'm a by the book, straight-laced, geeky kind of gal. And yet, here we are. Both republican and not about to be Democrat. I still say I am centrist, but if I had to pick it, republican.


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And you don't see how you deign to comment like this?: "So right now, the Democrats seem to be better at both the fiscal issues and WAY BETTER AT the social issues." Really? You can't see how it is condescending at all?

It is not meant to be condescending. It is how I see the situation right now.

I don't get how you infer that my opinion is condescending. Yet you are welcome to use "deign" to describe ME and apparently that is NOT condescending.

How could I describe my feelings any differently such that you would see them for what they are (my feelings) and not a condescending comment.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

If it is not meant to be condescending, is it to be uplifting? heh. I'm not upset with you, but I don't think it's a very objective view. Which was my point. It's coming across that you seem to believe it is "factual". I don't think either party has the market cornered on good or bad. I probably do vote for more Democrat candidates (as they align themselves during elections), but I still wouldn't consider myself a Democrat.

I vote my views through my candidate choices, but I also would doubt most people are truly a "one party" kind of person. The terms Republican and Democrat are never used during in person conversations. Are they? None that I join in. Now, we each know the other's leanings, but never does one say averingly, I am a Democrat! They say "I believe this or that legislation is _________" or give their views on certain topics, never aligning with a party that endorses it. It's just their own "personal" belief.

So why does that happen here so much. And such disdain.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

At what point, if ever, does one vote for a party because they are voting against the other party in protest of something.


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Neither condescending nor uplifting. Just my opinion.

And yeah, I do think it is factual ... cause it is MY opinion or I wouldn't be believing in it, would I?

What I'm saying is that I am paying more attention than ever before in my life to what each party is doing. Democrats are NOT perfect - no way, no how. I agree with that. And I see what Republicans are voting for, bringing up as bills, saying what they'll do but not actually doing it .... That's all pretty factual to me. Those are my observations. And like I said, I'm really paying attention. And I live in a very Republican state so I'm watching local and national.

I was just at a wedding and we were eating dinner with some old acquaintances afterwards. A product at Costco came up in the conversation. The other couple said "oh we just cancelled our membership because we heard they contributed to Obama's campaign." And we said right back "oh, well then more reason for us to like them cause we're liberals." Bam, end of discussion. But you're right, we didn't say Republican or Democrat.


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I don't even hear "liberal" in conversation. Why say it? Of course, I wouldn't have said what they said either.

I'm paying attention too. So are lots of people. More than ever before, if I had to guess.


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Our political system is more flawed today than it ever has been. There's corruption everywhere, runaway spending, dishonesty, prejudice, greed, more than enough mud-slinging... and when all is said and done, we get very few truly decent candidates that want to run, or closer to the truth, that can afford to run for office! It's a mess!

But in spite of it all, voting is pretty much the only voice we have left as a people... and with that said, I never vote a party line, but rather pick and choose based upon individual platforms and ideals.

I think if we divorced money from the political system, we'd have a much better choice in candidates, and would be better represented as a people, or as people.

So, how do we go about fixing our flawed, money driven system? Writing to our representatives doesn't seem to have the same effect it once did.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Esh ,your experience reminds me of the outraged people protesting Google for honoring Cesar Chavez on his birthday. They said they were forever giving up Google as their search engine. Imagine. Of course these T=baggers were thinking it was HUGO Chavez not Cesar. Low information reactionary crowd.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

Jodik - Very good post! I have asked the same question many times about what we can do to fix our system, but certainly have not come up with a good answer and have not had one sent to me during an enlightened moment.


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I rarely use Google, anyway... as they are known to censor and/or omit search results. I've taken to using other search engines to locate information.

But back on point... I think if we moved as a group, our government officials would have no choice but to make positive changes. The problem is, we're all so polarized and divided by the very entities we seek to change for the better. We can't even agree to disagree half the time... so, I doubt the winds of positive change will blow in our direction anytime soon.


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RE: Throwing this into the pit to see the response.

I do not understand where you're coming from, Rob.

How is what esh said condescending? The fact that the Republicans say one thing and do another and all the info about the social side of things are facts. esh stated them as her reasons for not voting for Republicans today. How is that condescending?

Yet you say to me:
but I don't know that you can understand this.

Do you think that might be condescending?

And why do you think I cannot understand?

I can certainly imagine the party I currently vote for drifting far afield from what I believe in. And I can tell you with 100% certainty that if it did, I would not try to sweep it under the rug. I would not ignore it or say it's not that bad. I would not vote for that party. Who would I vote for? Obviously I cannot answer that without knowing the candidates, but I can tell you with certainty I would speak out against what the party I used to support is doing.

Trying to blame it on using labels "Republican" and "Democrat" is silly and doesn't move the conversation forward. Call it party A and party B. It doesn't really matter. One party matches my thinking of how people should be treated. The other party is the exact opposite. Therefore I vote for the party that matches my thinking. Nothing condescending about that. Filling in Republican and Democrat for party A and party B does not make it condescending.

IMO, you are overreacting.


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