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The red line.

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 8:41

Evidently, the red line that Obama said Syria could not cross has been crossed. Sarin being used on his own citizens. So what now? Will Obama back down from his words, or will we end up in yet another conflict. Neither option is very palatable.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: The red line.

We have enough on our plate right now. Let's not create more enemies by intervening in Syria's business. Tell the UN to handle it, we're busy.

Is military action all we know? My God, I'm so tired of it.

I would prefer the president back away, and say, "My words were too strong, I will not commit American soldiers or American resources to more strife in the Middle East."

There, I wrote a response for him.


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RE: The red line.

Regime change! Times to help the glorious liberation army of what- not- istan break from the shackles under which they have suffered for ages.
In several years elements of that liberation army will train HS students to blow up a ferris wheel in Coney Island & the happy folks of the US will say see we deserved this.
Meanwhile it's a dandy tool that the GOP can spin for awhile .
There was also a suggestion the the REBELS also used it from what I've been hearing it's hard t prove.

There was a lot of hype to help Libya I'm just not feeling the love here for Syria.!


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RE: The red line.

Could be that neither side is all that happy with our "help".


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RE: The red line.

There was a lot of hype to help Libya I'm just not feeling the love here for Syria.!

They hate you, Joe!...you have a memory. :)


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RE: The red line.

Help? Hardly!
Love & insanity in the same concept HMM!


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RE: The red line.

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 9:50

Crossing the red line? Maybe he meant that Russia should invade not US. But then again Russia is more of an burnt orange these daze.


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RE: The red line.

Invade? Do you realize how crude that sounds?

How about being nice. Intervene. :)


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RE: The red line.

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 9:57

Then we'd be greeted as "Interveners"


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RE: The red line.

And our message to the world about Iraq....

don't worry, We got this!

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A roadside bomb exploded outside a Sunni mosque in a southern district of the Iraqi capital Baghdad, killing four worshippers as they left following Friday prayers, police and medics said.

The attack, which targeted the Kubaisi mosque, follows three days of the most widespread fighting in Iraq since U.S. troops withdrew in December 2011.


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RE: The red line.

One way to get around a lot of this vote out your congress critters that keep AUMF alive & keep permitting what the old Soviet line
US adventurism!


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RE: The red line.

Brush, I liked your original response.
I agree, let the UN handle it. Too much money and lives have been wasted in our foreign interventions to no real purpose. Sum total of all of it will be the same as it was in Vietnam. All we gain is the undying hatred of those we affected.
A clear indication that we should stay out of it is that John McCain wants us involved. Lot of hatred in that man.


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RE: The red line.

I agree, let the UN handle it.

And its possible that some recent, 16 yr old forced recruit grabbed one of the artillery shells with a blue dot on top, instead of an artillery shell with a red dot on top, and fired something he had no idea he was doing.

War being such a logical exercise, lets not forget good ol' human error.


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RE: The red line.

I will be so glad when that warhawk McCain is gone. Why can't we learn from our past mistakes? I'd rather err on the side of isolationism than take on the role of bullying interventionalism. Why are we policing the world? Let the UN do it.


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RE: The red line.

I echo the statement that wishes McCain was gone. Think where we'd be if he had won in 2008. I agree. Let the UN handle. Why are WE the policemen of the world? Who appointed us? Bush ruined us for decades in the two ten year wars he got us involved in, one totally bogus. Trillions of dollars and ,many many thousand of lost lives plus the fact we now have terrorists like the Boston thugs who will continue wrecking havoc in retribution.


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RE: The red line.

Its the entire purpose of the UN. If we disagree with how the UN chooses to handle things then we must sit back and continue to be a part of the whole rather than taking matters into our own hands, it rarely works out where anybody ends up better off when we go tearing off on our own - usually quite the opposite.

I have to say, as angry as I will be if Obama steps in, thank goodness its Obama and not Romney Id be angry with.
From Romney's own words, who knows what would be going on if Romney/Ryan had ended up winning. And would the majority of voters who would have voted them in support him in whatever warhawkish moves he made?

Sometimes I honestly wish I was totally into the Kardashions ( spelling? I don't know)and uninterested in the scary politics of this scary world. No matter what we think of each other's politics, at least everyone has some idea of what is going on and how frightening it all is. It has to be so less stressful, anxious an existence if you only really care or pay attention to that sort of fluffy stuff in life.


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RE: The red line.

It wasn't John McCain nor Mitt Romney that said the red line would be the use of chemical weapons. The person who is responsible for those words is Obama. How he handles it will also be his decision.


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RE: The red line.

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 14:42

The US is an empire with forts and outposts all over the world. This universal presence serves to enrich those at the top, same as with past empires. How the current administration at any one time responds to any particular conflict does not change the general situation, nor does the fact that we don't have a dynastic inheritance determining who sits on the throne.


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RE: The red line.

mrskjun, I visualize a red band; rather than a red line.
The fuel gauge on my truck has a red band at the E end of the scale.
Of course at the end of the band there is a line of no color (math defines a line as having length but no width nor color).
If I were sure that there is undeniable proof that
President Assad has indeed used sarin gas against anybody, then President Obama must opt for the decisive deterrent.
But the situation is fraught with danger!
We possess the surveillance technology to ensure accuracy.
We control many sources of surveillance to eliminate human error and/or prejudice; or to confirm accuracy.
No jumping the gun this time!
No dropping the ball this time!
No falling through the cracks this time!
No apology this "go round".
We should always learn from the mistakes of others because we cannot make all the mistakes ourselves; and it is much less expensive.


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RE: The red line.

Yes Mrsk, on this I agree with you, he is the President of this country, won the vote. I hope with all my heart that those who did vote for him will stand up and roar with anger if he embroils us into yet another conflict.
Imo, it is the business of all Americans to loudly voice opposition to even the president they voted for if that president does something which they dont support, especially if it involves death due to conflict. If only people had roared when even supporters had to accept there were no WMDs and then insisted on pulling out immediately, think of the lives that could have been saved in both countries, the families saved.

I know you hate war and have wanted Obama to pull us all out. What I dont understand Mrsk, is why you could have supported Bush at least in those last years and since, have repeatedly stated that you would have preferred, even voted for Bush/ Cheney back in over Obama if you could have. Or supported war mongering McCain. Supported Romney/McCain. It has never made sense to me.

Im not poking at you Mrsk, I really don't understand this - much more so since I did begin to believe only fairly recently you that you don't want us involved in war, that you hate it and always have.

Im not trying to poke at you, sincerely, I hope you will believe me at least for the sake of this exchange. It took a very long time for me to take your word that you didn't believe we belong in these wars because of those political persons you support - do you understand what Im poorly attempting to ask? How can you not want us in these wars and yet so unwaveringly support those who put us there and those who might very well put us in more.

It really doesn't matter much but I did support the invasion of Afghanistan at the time. It was Iraq that stunned me and angered me, I feel if the concentration had remained in Afghanistan we would have been out long ago. Oh, the lives that could could have been saved if only.


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RE: The red line.

mylab, if you think that Obama isn't as much or more of a war hawk than any republican, I don't know what to say. More soldiers have died in Afghanistan during Obamas first term than the entire eight years Bush was in office. He has a drone program that has been used against American citizens and innocents. Everyone believes that the Boston bomber should be afforded all the rights of an American citizen, yet some find it ok that he targeted American citizens with drones.

I too have to wonder about liberals. Rand Paul would bring all of our troops home and keep our noses out of other countries business, yet liberals call him a nut . So we never get everything we want in a leader do we? We look at the menu and get as close as possible to our views and hold our nose for the rest. You are absolutely right, as much as I abhor war, I would vote for Bush again before voting for Obama.


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RE: The red line.

if you think that Obama isn't as much or more of a war hawk than any republican

He has kept us from war with Iran -- against the wishes of the neoconservatives and GOP hawks -- and he has kept us from deeper involvement in Syria -- against the wishes of the neoconservatives and GOP hawks.

I was extremely disappointed when President Obama caved to the hawks and ordered a surge of 30,000 troops in Afghanistan. However, one could not say in good faith that he is more hawkish than the Republicans wrt Afghanistan because they were pushing hard for the surge, and against the reduction of troops at the end of the surge.


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RE: The red line.

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 18:08

If McCain had won in 2008 we'd probably be occupying Lybia, Egypt, Syria, and Iran right now....and perhaps his own party would be involved in the midst of McCain's impeachment hearings.

"I too have to wonder about liberals. Rand Paul would bring all of our troops home and keep our noses out of other countries business, yet liberals call him a nut ."

He is a nut on just about every other topic or policy. Liberals are not just one issue voters. I know many repubs or so-called conservatives where the abortion issue is ground zero and the only issue that matters. A useful tool for repub politicians, that and guns ironically keep the GOP alive.


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RE: The red line.

There you go..."IF" McCain had won, you have a crystal ball. Well, he didn't win. We are stuck with what we've got.
And according to liberals, all conservatives are nuts...according to conservatives, all liberals are nuts....and there you have it in a nutshell!


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RE: The red line.

"if only people had roared when even supporters had to admit there no WMDs (in Iraq)."
But people did roar. There were peace marches everywhere in this nation. Colin Powell tried his best to roar against our invasion of a sovereign nation that had not harmed us. Even the Pope himself warned Bush that to go to war against Iraq would be a huge mistake that would go down in history as tragic.
I'm just saying that it is no wonder that the American people feel so out of touch with their government and that it cares nothing for their wishes.... Many feel like helpless pawns on an indifferent chess board.


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RE: The red line.

Yes Woodnymph, I should have been more specific as it ignores all those who roared and marched despite the heaps of verbal abuse and insults tossed their way.

If only all those who supported Bush at the invasion would have then angrily withdrawn their support when months later not a single WMD was found, I wonder if some lives would have been saved. But that didnt happen - Bush supporters dug in their heels, stuck their fingers in their ears and sang, " lalalalala" as war continued to rage and human beings died.

And took their fingers out only long enough to yell to the unamerican and unpatriotic voters that Bush was a good and effective President who would leave us much better off than he found us.

Which I guess Mrsk explains how it is you continue to wish you could have voted for Bush yet a third time.


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RE: The red line.

May 2003

A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war.[9]

How soon we forget.


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RE: The red line.

May 2003

Two month after the beginning of the war on March 20, 2003. Shock and awe and an easy victory, before the U.S. began 'losing' the occupation.

The polling results did not hold very long once the realities of the occupation became painfully clear to the U.S. public.


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RE: The red line.

Looks like this is what happens when people talk tough - don't cross that line, or else.

Or else what?

I did see that Israel has decided to decommission their phosphorous shells. A step in the right direction, and I'm sure its just a coincidence that this is happening as they (and others) point the finger at Syria re chemical weapons.


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RE: The red line.

"I'm just saying that it is no wonder that the American people feel so out of touch with their government and that it cares nothing for their wishes.... Many feel like helpless pawns on an indifferent chess board."

You know what. Present company excepted, you could move that statement around so that it reads: "American people are so out of touch with their government and care little or nothing about how it works, to the point of not even participating in the electoral process, that they are indifferent pawns on an indifferent chessboard."


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RE: The red line.

Right on, Elvis. The near absolute lack of transparency exists where the governmental rubber hits and road along which we the people are dragged from one crisis to another, from one political show to another. We are goaded into divisive struggles of relatively minor social and political issues and are told to leave the economic issues to those that bought the government.

We the people haven't a clue to what is going on and rely on the latest set of conspiracy theories to steer our lives through these hard times. And blame the politicians.

Darn, my second rant of the day.


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RE: The red line.

What is the solution? What must the people do in order to correct the course we on, any thoughts?


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RE: The red line.

if you think that Obama isn't as much or more of a war hawk than any republican

President Obama is not war hawk. He doesn't go looking for war like Bush did. He did not march our country to invade a country with troops like Bush did.
The drone program is nothing compared to Bush's shock and awe bombing.
How quickly you forget the Bush march to war in Iraq based on intentional lies, misrepresentations, exaggerations, plagiarism , the ideological fervor of neocons, and petty Bush family revenge.

Bush slept at the wheel in 2001 despite Osama Bin Laden hijacking warnings.
Bush then started the War in Iraq on false pretenses.
President Obama presided over an end to the armed conflict in Iraq and he ordered the killing of Osama Bin Laden. That is exactly what he promised the American people he would do.
Likewise, President Obama will end the Afghan occupation in a responsible fashion.

Bush should have resigned and left the White House in infamy on September 12, 2001.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bush Leading to War

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sun, Apr 28, 13 at 0:25


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