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The Bus Stops Here!

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 9:03

"The Tennessee Senate passed a bill last week that, if approved, would broadly ban mass transit projects in the region, an anti-transit effort that's gotten some help in the state from Charles and David Koch.

On Thursday, the Tennessee Senate passed SB 2243, which includes an amendment that "prohibits metropolitan governments and any transit authorities created by a metropolitan government from constructing, maintaining or operating any bus rapid transit system using a separate lane, or other separate right-of-way, dedicated solely to the use of such bus rapid transit system on any state highway or state highway." The amendment is aimed at Nashville's proposed $174 million rapid bus system called the Amp, but would apply to any mass transit system proposed in Tennessee's cities."

And...

"Holly McCall, Nashville’s Metropolitan Transit Authority’s spokesperson for the Amp project, told ThinkProgress AFP has kept a low profile throughout the campaign for and against the Amp. She said she’d suspected AFP was involved in the Amp’s opposition, but didn’t know for sure until StopAmp.org thanked the group in their press release.

“It’s pretty tough to fight that kind of money - AFP gets funds from the Koch brothers, and they’re billionaires,” she said. “We continue to work our local campaign, and we’re probably going to make some tweaks to the design - we’re interested in compromise, because if we don’t, our entire future transit plan is going to be dictated by people who live out of state.”

Nashville has a bus system, McCall said, but it’s not enough to transport people throughout the suburbs and into the city, especially not as the city grows. By 2035, almost 1 million new residents will come to live in the Nashville area, according to the MTA.

“It would be hugely transformational,” McCall said of the Amp. “If we don’t do it now, we’re going to be so far behind, and it’s really going to start to hinder our economic development and growth.”

Mike Schatzlein, chairman of the Amp coalition, said in a statement that the Senate’s passage of the bill was an overreach of its authority."

More at the link...

Here is a link that might be useful: Ban Mass Transit?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 9:09

"The Tennessee Senate passed a bill last week that, if approved, would broadly ban mass transit projects in the region, an anti-transit effort that's gotten some help in the state from Charles and David Koch."

Too bad that Tenn isn't run by the demos, then Fox newz could report that it's a ban on driving to church on Sundays.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Snicker...

It's just too bad that money is so key in everything... and thought isn't on anything long term or for the people.


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This a perfect example of how big money influences politics on a state level, disgusting, despicable, and frightening...


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This a perfect example of how big money influences politics on a state level, disgusting, despicable, and frightening...

Surprised? Big money influence has even made its way to the White House.


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Yes, with the increase of gasoline prices, greenhouse gases, pollution, and congested streets, banning mass transit is such a wonderful idea. Makes you wonder if their goal is to be as backward as possible?


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 14:16

The Kochs are fighting mass transit. These days. Tishtosh, it boggles the mind. If I were a Southern Baptist, I'd be sure they were in league with Satan. Instead, they're probably just dreadfully small people.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

The Kochs formed a special org just to pull this off.

Just because they have a philosophical disagreement re. mass transit, they are forming a mechanism to deprive countless citizens of the opportunity to have access.

Nice px of the Kochs with this article. The younger one looks malevolent.

i think its time for the paparazzi to attach themselves to this pair like ticks. Maybe they can actually do some good for once.

Anyone know any scandal sheet photographers? Would they dare?

I also think some union bus trips to certain homes ought to be in order...sightseeing expeditions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Salon


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Of course, they would dare... look at how they treat Hollywood!

Perhaps "someone" ought to tip them off...


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Absolutely criminal in these days of rapid climate change and horrendous gasoline prices and disregard for the poorer among us. Who cares if mass transit provides necessary transportation for workers, students, and the elderly!


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What - do the Koch brothers own car lots, parking lots or oil companies or all of them? Or perhaps they don't believe that climate change and pollution is real. Do they live in Nashville?

Why, in this day and age, would you not want mass transit programs to try to get people out of their cars.


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"Surprised? Big money influence has even made its way to the White House."

Not just recently, it has been there for decades.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Blfenton - aside from probably owning a big chunk of Wisconsin Governor, Scott Walker, they own a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin.

And for all that walking around money there are the following - some products have probably unwittingly touched our lives in one fashion or another:

Koch Industry Gasoline:
Chevron
Union
Union 76
Conoco

Koch Industry/Georgia-Pacific Products:
Angel Soft toilet paper
Brawny paper towels
Dixie plates, bowls, napkins and cups
Mardi Gras napkins and towels
Quilted Northern toilet paper
Soft ‘n Gentle toilet paper
Sparkle napkins
Vanity fair napkins
Zee napkins

Koch Industry/Invista Products:
COMFOREL® fiberfill
COOLMAX® fabric
CORDURA® fabric
DACRON® fiber
POLYSHIELD® resin
SOLARMAX® fabric
SOMERELLE® bedding products
STAINMASTER® carpet
SUPPLEX® fabric
TACTEL® fiber
TACTESSE® carpet fiber
TERATE® polyols
TERATHANE® polyether glycol
THERMOLITE® fabric
PHENREZ® resin
POLARGUARD® fiber and
LYCRA® fiber

Georgia Pacific Building products:
Dense Armor Drywall and Decking
ToughArmor Gypsum board
Georgia pacific Plytanium Plywood
Flexrock
Densglass sheathing
G/P Industrial plasters (some products used by a lot of crafters)-
Agricultural Plaster
Arts & Crafts Plaster
Dental Plaster
General Purpose Plaster
Glass-reinforced Gypsum (GRG)
Industrial Tooling Plaster
Investment Casting Plaster
Medical Plaster
Metal Casting Plaster
Pottery Plaster
FibreStrong Rim board
G/P Lam board
Blue Ribbon OSB Rated Sheathing
Blue Ribbon Sub-floor
DryGuard Enhanced OSB
Nautilus Wall Sheathing
Thermostat OSB Radiant Barrier Sheathing
Broadspan Engineered Wood Products
XJ 85 I-Joists
FireDefender Banded Cores
FireDefender FS
FireDefender Mineral Core
Hardboard and Thin MDF including Auto Hardboard,
Perforated Hardboard and Thin MDF
Wood Fiberboard -
Commercial Roof Fiberboard
Hushboard Sound Deadening Board
Regular Fiberboard Sheathing
Structural Fiberboard Sheathing

From "The Fifth Column"


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

My goodness, they sound like busy people. I feel like a slouch in comparison. No wonder they are wealthy.


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"No wonder they are wealthy."

They are wealthy because Daddy was wealthy. There is not anything wrong with that, but if you are going to give credit .................. you might want to know where the money came from originally.


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You have to admire their attention to basics.

:o/


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"They are wealthy because Daddy was wealthy. There is not anything wrong with that, but if you are going to give credit .................. you might want to know where the money came from originally."

Ah, yes. It's nice when one's parents leave stuff to their offspring. I'd be surprised if at least some here haven't inherited something of monetary value.

Sometimes the heirs squander their good fortune.

"You have to admire their attention to basics." A recipe for success, I would think.


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Tends to be buried, but I found the major original source of the Koch fortune was in engineering contracts with Joseph Stalin.

I have nothing against inheriting.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Oooh, that's scandalous...who knew? I suppose if one started digging into the origins of the fortunes of many of the rich and famous, all sorts of unsavory stories would come to light, no?

That would make for a juicy thread, though not exactly a current "hot topic."

Sort of like if one was to start digging into whose ancestors were slave owners or KKK members. That would go on and on...


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Oftentimes "family money" has its secrets.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

  • Posted by batya Israel north 8-9-10 (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 4, 14 at 2:35

Where they got it is not the OP.

What they do with it, is.

" A mark of an enlightened society is not when the poor all have cars, but when the wealthy travel by public transportation". (source unknown)

The very idea of preventing public transportation is absurd, obscene, and ludicrous. Legislating against it, wow I"m not sure I have a word for that.


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In a weird roundabout way - mass transportation systems are not necessarily the panacea they may appear when they are run solely as profit-making entities by private companies. A state subsidised system - now you are talking.

Here in Cambridge, we have seen the so-called 'guided busway' go several millions over budget, fail on nearly criteria for successful (ie.used, cheap, accessible) public transport. Meanwhile, one company, Stagecoach, aggressively monopolised the public transport sector by the usual dirty deals (cheap tickets, free deals until smaller companies close, then wahoo - up the prices, less routes, less buses, worse pay and conditions for workers.....you all know the outcomes). Stagecoach use the guided bus route a few times a day while it lies empty and moribund......as does the entire public transport system in Cambridge. Essentially, we have been landed with a massive bill for a system which has utterly failed (although cyclists tend to nip down the trackways).....and a public transport system in worse shape and tons more expensive than our old bus companies (with competition) and nationalised rail industry.

So yeah, I am all for getting people out of cars (I don't drive myself but am an avid cyclist ).....but, as always......it depends.


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Nashville has a public bus system. Schedules can be found at the link below.

I believe BRT lanes are a real toss up when they are place down the middle of existing roads.

Here is a link that might be useful: nashville bus schedules


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

From jodik's OP...don't suppose any of you read this OR understands it. In this thread, and the the college athletes unionizing thread, every single person who posted (except Chase on the unionizing thread) has had no clue as to what the actual subject/issue is.

""prohibits metropolitan governments and any transit authorities created by a metropolitan government from constructing, maintaining or operating any bus rapid transit system using a separate lane, or other separate right-of-way, dedicated solely to the use of such bus rapid transit system on any state highway or state highway."


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

jmc, I understood the article just fine. Here in Los Angeles, the debate is between light rail and bus service with a dedicated lane. There are also the dedicated freeway lanes for car pooling in California.

Expanding mass transit through the use of buses still leaves the transport at the mercy of local traffic conditions / congestion. Same problem with freeway carpooling. Dedicated lanes give advantages to those who carpool or use mass transit.

You have cited no evidence that public transportation is adequate in Tennessee.


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Chicago has express lanes...

And while most major cities in the US have adequate highway systems, there really is very little in the way of what Nancy talks about in too many cities... which are growing.


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Nancy, I am the ONLY one who bothered to point out that there ALREADY IS bus service in Nashville. I never said it was or wasn't inadequate so should no requirement to opine on that aspect at all. However, the reasons for opposition go back for quite a few years, one reason of which has to do with the proposed BRT not serving underprivileged neighborhoods.

I'm thrilled for you about what exists in LA; however, jodik started this thread on Nashville and I chose to stay on topic. Plus, jodik has previously commented that she prefers her threads to stay on topic.

Jodik, which roads in Chicago have express bus lanes? As I only ride 1 el back and forth and 2 CTA local buses daily, I'm not familiar with the express lanes that exist. As of 6 weeks ago in Chicago, BRTs were only in the planning stage...at least according to what I've read. Please share your knowledge. Express buses are totally different and I've been a user of them for years.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

I also read and understood the op, jmc. You are not the only one capable of doing that.

Legislating against "using a separate lane, or other separate right-of-way, dedicated solely to the use of such bus rapid transit system on any state highway or state highway" is ridiculous. Perhaps they do not work in every situation, but blanket legislation against them is just plain dumb.

I take the bus into NYC every day for work. I can tell you if the bus did not have its own lane to get through the tunnel, saving at least an hour of sitting in traffic every morning, I would be much more likely to drive my own car, by myself, contributing to the congestion and pollution.


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jmc, I mentioned our situation in L.A. as a way to demonstrate that I do understand the issues involved, contrary to what you insist.

We also have an extensive bus service, and there are reasons for proposing dedicated lanes, as I mentioned above. Since you admit you have no knowledge of the adequacy of bus service in Nashville, you have no way of knowing the harm that comes of prohibiting rapid bus transit systems with dedicated lanes. What is proven is that dedicated lanes reduce transit times and encourage use of bus service.

I have to ask if you understand the article; it is the state senate that passed legislation prohibiting dedicated transit lanes throughout the entire state; more than Nasville would be affected. What interest would Springfield have legislating restrictions on Chicago's mass transit system? This doesn't seem to be legislative overreach to you?


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Duluth,

You left out Berkeley Earth.

Frank, yes it's been there for decades. I bet you thought "change" was coming.


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Yes, brush, but that's not a Koch "product" in the same fashion as Dixie Cups or Stainmaster Carpeting.

There are probably pages and pages listing the pies the Kochs have their fingers in... including but not limited to being on the boards of the American Museum of Natural History, the Lincoln Center, and the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I doubt one looks at them as being uncultured lowbrow philistines.


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Well, don't forget the Hospital for Special Surgery....$25 million.

Or the Great Plains Nature Center...Free to the public.

They are more charitable than you are. :)

Without their gifts, those two examples wouldn't exist.

Do you mind that John Kerry has his finger in your ketchup? Your pickle jar?


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Without their gifts, those two examples wouldn't exist.

This city is filled with wealth and plenty of other donors besides the Koch's who have given larger gifts than theirs, many done anonymously. Bloomberg is one and Langone, although not anonymous, is another with his $100 million to the former NYU med Center which is now Langone Med Center. There are others who give a large percentage of their wealth so to pretend that without the Koch's these institutions wouldn't exist is ridiculous. Besides, where would I wear my $10+k tops if not these these galas?

Bet you don't know the backstories of many of the Koch gifts including the HfSS.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Fri, Apr 4, 14 at 13:15


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Besides, where would I wear my $10+k tops if not these these galas?

I confess that I purchase my at-one-time-it-cost $10k tops at resale shops where kind souls such as epi, having paid retail (or perhaps wholesale) for her galas, allow me to dress up my tatami flip flops and CP Shades pants with great flair for a fraction of the original cost.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

Express lanes... not buses only. You know that.

Oh... on the Dan Ryan, for example... but that's also split in the center for train service from south side to north, I'd imagine... don't know; don't take the train. Don't live in the city; only visit it once in a while.


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I believe that sensible minds here are saying that keeping all options open so that you can chose the one that works best in your congested area is the choice that isn't flavored with lunacy. The Koch's have some odd intolerances.


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Well, Daddy Koch WAS not only one of the members but also one of the founding daddies of the John Birch Society.

Which demonstrates the old saying about where the apple falls and lands, in relation to the tree from which it came.


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There ya go, Mylab... well said.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 4, 14 at 16:10

Notably, today's remnant Republican Party itself bears a strong resemblance to the John Birch Society. Without overstating their power at all, the Koch's have been working, with many other wealthy subversives, covertly and effectively for over 30 years to use their money to place people who want to please them in government and influence policy at all levels and in all states. This finally came to the awareness of the general public with their corruption and takeover of the Tea Party movement to further their agenda.

Now Charles Koch has just come out personally to smear their opposition as dangerous "collectivists," -- us, of course. Calling everyone who disagrees with them commies the way Dad did sounds just too wing-nutty these days, but I'm guessing mainly it's also definitely too reminiscent of Dad and the JBS. So--"collectivists."

The saplings committed long ago to Dad's extreme laissez-faire philosophy and to promoting their version of "freedom;" i.e., any regulation that might limit their own money and power collection efforts are by definition commie-inspired.

Antipathy to taxes and their scheme to lump and portray all social programs, including Social Security, as giveaways to lazy undeserving poor, pure Bircher. To the laissez faire wealthy, of course, everyone who benefits from taxation, except them, is, by definition and by distant view, a member of the undeserving poor.

And, it goes without saying, pure Bircher is the legacy of deep seated racism that colored every position and forced the Birchers underground and that is now bringing the GOP down.


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RE: The Bus Stops Here!

I confess that I purchase my at-one-time-it-cost $10k tops at resale shops where kind souls such as epi, having paid retail (or perhaps wholesale) for her galas, allow me to dress up my tatami flip flops and CP Shades pants with great flair for a fraction of the original cost

Sorry Nancy, those days are over. I was advised the other day by my financial advisor brushworks that I cannot afford these high end items so looks like you are cut off.

I take the bus into NYC every day for work. I can tell you if the bus did not have its own lane to get through the tunnel, saving at least an hour of sitting in traffic every morning, I would be much more likely to drive my own car, by myself, contributing to the congestion and pollution.

Indeed Jill, you and millions of other commuters feel the same way. The dedicated bus lanes, which was originally done as an experiment, was successful which is why it has since become permanent.


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