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Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Posted by youngquinn VIC Aust (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 21:35

I have been reading Richards thread about online voting and people have mentioned that in SOME areas the wait is 8 hours?

why?

Voting is compulsory in Australia ...the most I have EVER waited to vote is 3 minutes. We vote with paper and pen so the votes can be recounted if this election is close. works for us


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

See, if you close voting places where the poors live, then they have to go stand in line somewhere else, and after a while they get tired and hungry or have to go to their jobs, so they quit standing in line.

The poors, of course, are believed to vote democratic because they're shiftless and lazy except when they cook meth. The democrats are not the party closing down voting places and cutting early voting hours and trying their best to make it difficult to vote.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 21:51

What David said.....

Voting is so very important; when governments try to prevent us from voting we'll wait in line for many hours to vote.

Wouldn't you?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Poor planning, too many voters trying to vote in one polling place.

It's not like they have to build polling places, so it's poor planning, more places could be set up for the voters in a district.

Sometimes it's particularly crowded in the commuter hours.

I waited I'm guessing over an hour to vote the presidential election 2008. I didn't complain about it. No big deal.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

The OP: Do you mean "too long" or "so long?" Either way, what I said on the internet voting forum:

"Poor organization. That was not the norm, Fenton. The out of the ordinary is more likely to be remarked upon. I was in the longest voting line of my life for the most recent pres election: I'll bet I waited for a good 20 minutes. It was brutal."


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Like youngquinn I think the longest I've ever waited to vote, regardless of the type of election (civic, provincial, federal) is about 3 minutes.

Within 10 minutes of walking from my house there are 3 polling stations for my neighbourhood.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Within 10 minutes of walking from my house there are 3 polling stations for my neighbourhood."

That's a lot of polling places. For each township in my county, there is one polling place: the town hall. It's around 5 miles from my house. It's staffed with volunteers mostly, very organized and efficient little old people in their 70's, with candy dishes and places to sit down and bathrooms. Very nice. All the town citizens vote in the same place, "poors" and all.

"I waited I'm guessing over an hour to vote the presidential election 2008. I didn't complain about it. No big deal."

It seems like nowadays a lot of people want instant service. I think the extra effort it takes to get out and vote elevates the importance of the vote. To me, voting online would be akin to ordering something on Amazon. The local polling places need to get their acts together where necessary.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Elvis , good pick up I meant " so " long

Mom coming from a country that has compulsory voting I am , very aware of how important voting is. It is my RESPONSIBILITY to vote and well as my RIGHT.

David "The poors, of course, are believed to vote democratic because they're shiftless and lazy except when they cook meth. The democrats are not the party closing down voting places and cutting early voting hours and trying their best to make it difficult to vote. "

that is terrible. If it is correct that RebublicanS (or any party) are deliberately making it hard to vote, for people they do not beliEve will vote for them, then it is an affront to democracy.

mom "Voting is so very important; when governments try to prevent us from voting we'll wait in line for many hours to vote.

Wouldn't you? " mOM in answer to your question Yes, of course I would ....but the point is I DONT HAVE TO

and neither should you.

If you have electronic voting how do you do a count back if the losing candidate requests it in a close situation?

and why do you vote on a tuesday? we vote on a saturday when more people are not working (yes I know some do still work on that day , but less)

I have long held the view that if the "poor" of Amercia could be convinced to vote (you only have a 50% participation rate) then Amercia would look very different.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Why do we vote on a Tuesday?

Back in the days when people in this country traveled by horse and buggy, they needed a day to get to the polls and they couldn’t travel on Sundays. An old custom that no one seems to be of a mind to change for some reason.

And yes, restricting voting days or hours, stopping same day registration, eliminating polling places all in an effort to keep certain segments of the population from access - or at least relatively easy access - is an affront to democracy (small "d").

I think the electronic machines scan and tabulate votes as they're cast - recorded on a disc or something making a recount as easy or easier than hand counting paper ballots.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"I have long held the view that if the "poor" of Amercia could be convinced to vote (you only have a 50% participation rate) then Amercia would look very different."

That could be a good thing. It's apathy, not money or opportunity to vote IMO, but it sounds righteous and noble to profess otherwise. DH has an employee who has never voted, and a son who likewise has no interest in voting. Both are middle class, employed, educated people. They just don't care; I'm reasonably sure since I am intimately acquainted with two chronic non-voters (that I know of), there are many more. Makes me crazy. However, if voting was mandatory, some would complain about that too.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Aussies vote? How quaint...


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Much ado about nothing, I suspect.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Florida County Eliminates Minority-Heavy Polling Places."

" On a party-line vote, a Florida county’s Republican majority Board of County Commissioners voted Tuesday to eliminate almost one-third of Manatee County’s voting sites. The board accepted a proposal by Supervisor of Elections Mike Bennett (R) by a 6-1 vote to trim the number of precincts, despite unanimous public testimony against the move ��" and complaints by the lone Democratic Commissioner that it would eliminate half of the polling places in his heavily minority District 2.

Bennett, in his first term as elections supervisor, proposed reducing the number of Manatee County precincts from 99 to 69. Citing decreased Election Day turnout, as more voters switch to in-person early voting and vote-by-mail options, he told the commissioners that the move would save money and allow the county to offer more early voting sites in the future.

In the public comment section of the meeting, all ten speeches strongly opposed the move. Representatives of the local NAACP and Southern Christian Leadership Council warned that the cuts would decrease voter turnout because voters would have to travel further to a polling place, especially among the elderly and people without cars, and noted that the cuts disproportionately affected minority-heavy precincts. Bennett dismissed these concerns, noting that because District 2 had received “preferential treatment in the past,” even with the changes, his district will have the smallest number of voters per precinct. “It was overbalanced before, it’s overbalanced now.” Bennett also repeatedly noted that he had discussed the move with civil rights groups and both the Republican and “Democrat” Parties.

Bennett assured the commission that if lines are longer in 2014 as a result of these changes, he would ask them to revisit the decision in 2015, before the 2016 elections. But it is unclear whether voter accessibility is a sincere priority for him. In 2011, while serving in the Florida Senate, he endorsed making it hard to vote: “I wouldn’t have any problem making it harder. I would want them to vote as badly as I want to vote. I want the people of the state of Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who’s willing to walk 200 miles…This should not be easy.” He made that comment as he supported a voter suppression bill that reduced the number of days for early voting in Florida and helped create long lines across the state."

Here is a link that might be useful: Just Make It Harder...


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

When you bus people by the hundreds it usually results in standing room only.

It will be easier next time. The gays and Hispanic's probably won't get any false promises and won't have to rush to the polls for their "second" time out.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Pam what ever you imagine about why it exists this way isn't probably half of why it does.
We have been voting for ages & this is & has been a freaking game playing country from the git go Whig, Republican. Democrat or Confederate they all engaged in all manner of crooked crap!

This post was edited by labrea on Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 8:42


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"New Rule Prohibits Voters In Miami-Dade County From Using The Restroom, No Matter How Long The Line"

"During the 2012 presidential election, voters reportedly waited on line for upwards of six hours. That wait alone is enough to deter would-be voters from going to the polls. But now residents in Florida’s most populous county will have another disincentive: they won’t be able to go to the bathroom.

Earlier this year, the Miami-Dade County Elections Department quietly implemented a policy to close the bathrooms at all polling facilities, according to disability rights lawyer Marc Dubin. Dubin said the policy change was in “direct response” to an inquiry to the Elections Department about whether they had assessed accessibility of polling place bathrooms to those with disabilities.

“I was expecting them to say either yes we have or yes we will,” Dubin said.

Instead, he received a written response announcing that the county would close all restrooms at polling places “to ensure that individuals with disabilities are not treated unfairly,” a January email stated. “[T]he Department’s policy is not to permit access to restrooms at polling sites on election days,” Assistant County Attorney Shanika Graves said in a Feb. 14 email. Elections Department officials did not immediately respond to ThinkProgress inquiries.

Dubin said he was “shocked” at this response, and not just because it suppresses the vote for everybody. The Americans with Disabilities Act also requires entities to make “reasonable accommodations” to those with disabilities. For those with a number of conditions, including diabetics and those taking diuretics, closing the restroom will make standing in that line impossible, and thus discriminate against disabled voters.

But those with disabilities are not the only ones who would suffer disproportionately from this policy. A Massachusetts Institute of Technology analysis found that blacks and Hispanics waited almost twice as long to vote as whites in the 2012 presidential election. Another analysis found that this “time tax” also impacted young voters. And this would be one of a number Florida voter suppression policies that have a particular impact on the elderly.

The state’s next-most populous counties, Broward and Palm Beach, told the Sun Sentinel they would not implement this policy."

Here is a link that might be useful: Voter Alienation 101 - GOP Style


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

If you continue to stand for this rubbish treatment you cannot continue to claim that you are A DEMOCRACY.

NO LAW ABIDING CITIZEN OF A DEMOCRATIC NATION SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO ENDURE A 6 OR 8 HOUR WAIT TO VOTE ...AND SURELY , BY LAW, BATHROOMS MUST BE PROVIDED? IF NOT, WHY NOT?

I rewad further up this thread that polling booths were operated by volunteers. Is this correct? if so why?
In Australia polling booths are operated by paid staff.

and btw the only way to conduct a count back is by the candidate who asked for it being able to physically peruse the voting papers. this cannot be achieved in an electronic system.

American , your politicians have conned you. Why do you not recognise this and do something about it?

How can you , even for a minute think that it is acceptable to be kept waiting for hours to vote?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

It is not acceptable--in fact, it is outrageous, youngquinn. However, Republicans are in the majority in those places in Florida you read about in the posts above, and by a majority vote, they like to restrict voting access--particularly in areas where there are lots of Democrat voters which is the whole point of the restrictions--cut down the Democratic vote.

Occasionally one of the Republican politicians publically admits that is what the purpose is--but more often they mask the purpose in pious sounding excuses. It used to be because they were trying to eliminate voting FRAUD--even though there was almost no evidence of such a problem. If you disagreed with the Republicans, they would accuse you of promoting fraud!

I notice now that the Florida Republicans are being more honest--they can SAVE MONEY if they cut back voting access.

Hey, if they eliminated ALL voting and turned our democracy into a dictatorship, think how much money they could save! Those Florida Republicans obviously don't think large picture enough, do they!

Kate


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 10:09

Red state legislators have been passing laws right and left, under the guise of preventing "voter fraud", to interfere with voter access, especially in districts that tend to vote for Democratic candidates - minorities, young people, urban areas.

They have decided that if they can't win an election legally, they'll use any underhanded, illegal way they can.

These include mandating a photo ID issued by their State, which is difficult and expensive to get; removing polling locations; "purging" voter rolls; turning people away, for any reason, at the polls; making laws about how people can get to the polls - no busses, etc; restricting voting hours, eliminating early voting, and on and on and on.

This was the subject of many posts during the last election, and we'll undoubtedly discuss it during the next election, when the next round of anti-voting laws become obvious, in November.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 10:35

Gays and Hispanics "rushed" the polls, a Brushworks put it, along with blacks and other minorities, in response to attempts on the right to disenfranchise them, which backfired very badly.

That the GOP has been doubling down on its attempts since doesn't mean they're too stupid to learn from that lesson. They're just desperate. With demographic changes and the political mood swing away from the hard right, honest elections will cost that still-powerful minority party offices all over the country.

This is survival time for the white-power elements of the old GOP. Thus we see this absolute, very transparent intent to steal hundreds of elections any way they can get away with.

So right, Youngquinn. I've watched this happen with distress for 40 years. An enormous problem for government BY the people is an unfortunate juxtaposition of the legal time for redrawing of districts in 2010 combined with large wins for reactionary Tea Party candidates that year. The Tea Party has already effectively self-combusted; but, disastrously, the people of most, heavily gerrymandered congressional districts now have no real choice about what names will be on the ballot and who will win (the particularly well-funded one chosen one backed by special interests). Both parties love gerrymandering, actually, to the point that more of our congressmen die in office than are unseated in elections.

Thus, the continuing mess of venal scoundrels and incompetents in Congress, which is likely to continue for some years.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

See, if you close voting places where the poors live, then they have to go stand in line somewhere else, and after a while they get tired and hungry or have to go to their jobs, so they quit standing in line.
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Where did you get the silly idea that if people see a line at one polling place they can go to another?

You can only vote at one place. The place where your records are.

Too often nobody shows up at the polls, so the allotment of equipment and personnel are assigned by the history of voters actually voting. Then everybody suddenly shows up and it's immediately the Poll workers' fault.

Many times I went with my father to the "poor" district to vote, and the ONLY ONES who were complaining were the rabble rousers who wanted to start trouble. So the news papers concentrated on that.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 11:30

Many times I went with my father to the "poor" district to vote

You went there because you lived there? So it's not true that only the rabble rousers were there, or did you and your dad go to see the sights?

I bet that the polling places in rich districts don't have a lot of people showing up either, because the rich have already bought the election and don't need to vote.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I'm confused......You said that Americans can only vote at the place where your records are.

if your father was registered in the poor district why would you say you "went" to the poor district?

Sounds as if other times you "went" somewhere else...I don't quite understand what you are saying.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

A little confused also - unless and if it wasn't your assigned polling place and you were given a provisional ballot or whatever the procedure is when your name's not on the roster.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"if your father was registered in the poor district why would you say you "went" to the poor district?"

Sigh. Because he was taking his father to his father's polling place so that his father could vote. I take my 92 year old mother to her polling place so that she can vote.

I vote separately at my polling place, and I image Wake does the same at his own polling place. It's not exactly an imposition on our time, taking one's elderly/disabled parent to zir polling place.

edited for grammar

This post was edited by elvis on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 12:17


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosie,

The showing will be moderate to very light during the next election...unless there's more of the misleading promises.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Yes, it's true that there is always the "companion" factor to consider. But Many times I went with my father to the "poor" district to vote... can be read a couple of ways.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

The only way the conservative middle class folks are going to get concerned about voting is when the uber rich make it difficult for THEM to vote and you can bet that will happen when they have gotten rid of all the voting poor.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Posted by wakeandsmelltheTea none (My Page) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 11:22
See, if you close voting places where the poors live, then they have to go stand in line somewhere else, and after a while they get tired and hungry or have to go to their jobs, so they quit standing in line.
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Where did you get the silly idea that if people see a line at one polling place they can go to another?

You can only vote at one place. The place where your records are.

Try this again, shall we? If you have a prescient where poors live, and you close that prescient, then … what, do you need me to spell it out for ya? They move your registration records to another prescient. Where, since there are now two prescients combined, the line is now longer.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

No need for a condescending sigh Elvis.....

First, the question was not directed at you

Second , there was certainly no inference that taking ones parent to vote is an imposition, or that even going with them was an imposition.

Third, Wake said "went with" not "took.".....it was confusing to me . I actually thought he/she was referring to their youth ........but then again I'm not near as bright as you.

By the way why do you always use "zir" instead of their ?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

David: "Try this again, shall we? If you have a prescient where poors live, and you close that prescient, then … what, do you need me to spell it out for ya? They move your registration records to another prescient. Where, since there are now two prescients combined, the line is now longer."

Try this again, using "precinct," though your way is funnier.

______________

Chase: "No need for a condescending sigh Elvis.....
First, the question was not directed at you"

I typed "duh" then changed it to "sigh." Thought it would ruffle less feathers; guess not. "Not directed at" me? Too bad: open forum, common sense.

"By the way why do you always use "zir" instead of their ?"

Because I was talking about "one" (singular), and "zir" is gender neutral, and less awkward than "her/his."


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 13:28

A favorite tactic, BTW, and not at all rare, is to direct whole neighborhoods to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time. That's why groups like Election Protection, which I am a volunteer for, are so massively busy on election days. When people like me are right there watching the polling place, with the assigned EP attorney on speed dial, voters are much more likely to be informed by poll workers that they're in the wrong place when they arrive in line, not after they finally reach its front, one by one.

Brushworks, it is an off-year election and you may turn out to be right. I'm crossing my fingers that the right's extremely hostile and offensive attacks on their liberties will bring good numbers out once again.

Needless to say, right now the right's subversive behavior cannot get too low for me. Actually, it can't get any lower literally, but you know what I mean. No matter what, it's going to be years and the GOP's going to become a rainbow party before minority conservatives forget and forgive. They know very well who their enemies are.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Duh" would have been insulting and condescending..."sigh" just condescending.

My comment that the question was not directed at you had nothing to do with this being an open forum but more to do with the fact you can't know what Wake meant so you have no place in answering on her/his behalf . You have every right to offer your interpretation but that is not what you did.

The point is that the sentence was confusing to me and I asked for clarification...you basically said I was stupid for not getting it.....that is rude and condescending ....... but expected.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

What's especially delicious is making people wait 6 hours or whatever to make a pointless vote in a "heads-you-lose-tails-I-win" election sham concocted by plutocrats.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

•Posted by pnbrown z6.5 MA (My Page) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 13:30

"What's especially delicious is making people wait 6 hours or whatever to make a pointless vote in a "heads-you-lose-tails-I-win" election sham concocted by plutocrats."

Sadly, I think that is more to the point than all the rest.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I don't know how to link to it, but there was an opinion piece in the BBC news this morning about how the US has become an Oligarchy rather than a Democracy.
Hard to accept, but I think we all know it as the truth.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Cleveland Ohio is run by Democrats and their voting polls are screwed up every year. Go figure.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

•Posted by steve2416 z7 NC (sw2416256@gmail.com) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 14:58

"I don't know how to link to it, but there was an opinion piece in the BBC news this morning about how the US has become an Oligarchy rather than a Democracy.
Hard to accept, but I think we all know it as the truth."

Speaking only for me Steve, I think that is just so.

IMO and not insinuating that you would expand upon this in the same way I do, I also think that people who consider themselves "democrats" consider themselves to be the champions of democracy. IMO again, "democrat" has become a misnomer, as has the term "republican."


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Is this it, steve?

Here is a link that might be useful: Average American has little power


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Duluth, thank you.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"This is the "Duh Report", says Death and Taxes magazine's Robyn Pennacchia. Maybe, she writes, Americans should just accept their fate."

Does this idea have merit? And should Americans just accept their fate.

I do sometimes wonder whether or not my country and the US and probably others around the world, because they have just expanded so much population-wise and also culturally , and that combined with the ever increasing technological advances, if our original government set-ups are still valid. It just seems to have become so unwieldy. I don't mean the type of government, that of duly-elected democracies (broad definition).

But, for example, we still have a senate and it is currently fraught with a spending/expense account crisis. The senate is nothing but patronage appointments by the sitting Prime Minister. It was originally set up as the "sober second thought" chamber but now it is a very expensive waste of money. Do we still need it. Should that be overhauled.

I don;t know, that's for sure. I'm not smart enough to figure out the ramifications of doing away with it.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 17:32

And the National Review, a Washington insider site, "Conquest of the Oligarchs, The Left loses its marbles as the post-McCutcheon Gilded Age begins.

Link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oligarchy


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Why are Democrats so paranoid?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 20:36

Actually, we're not, Brushworks. For real. We're the easygoing, accepting ones, and fear tactics backfire by irritating and offending.

Genuine paranoids gather toward the other end of the spectrum, and conservatives in general are well known to be more fearful about everything than liberals. One of those basic differences.

That's why Fox reports so many stories of violent crimes (message: danger is all around you, all the time). The high number of incredibly stupid criminals featured are to add a feel-good, entertaining touch so Fox's viewers aren't SO frightened by the constant reminders that they go hide under the bed.

You'd waste a lot of time trying to find local robberies, clever or stupid, covered on MSNBC.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

why can you only vote in your :assigned polling place"?

In Australia we register with the state government and our name goes on the roll of which electorate we live in....then we can vote in whatever place within that zone , that we choose.

We hav ea choice of maybe 40 or 50 places where we can vote. and if you find yourself out of your municipality then you can vote at any booth in the country as an "absent vote" OK pn brown , so you say it is useless to vote anyway...well what is your solution then? give up maybe?

your system is designed to discourage voting ....and that is a disgrace


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Not sure what you mean by "give up". Ignoring the bread-and-circus is my particular solution. Even at a local level.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

pn I have come across your attitude before when discussing politics with Americans.

By "ignoring" your political "circus" you are saying "I am helpless"

You are letting them win...by allowing them to psychologically disenfranchise you..

There has to be a difference between the two parties.....


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 8:07

The difference between the two parties is currently enormous, but this system was set up with the understanding that a minority could always be persuaded to destructive choices by bad leaders but that most voters would vote to take fairly sensible care of their country and their own interests.

The current ongoing transfer of power to a few is absolutely due to the feckless irresponsibility of all those who don't bother to vote and then dress their laziness up with phony cynicism about it not mattering. It literally could not be done without their help.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Many times I went with my father to the "poor" district to vote
You went there because you lived there? So it's not true that only the rabble rousers were there, or did you and your dad go to see the sights?
****************************

I've read some of TEA's posts and s/he is an African American. So maybe yes, they did indeed live in "poor" areas.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I'm letting "them" win? Me, and other little work-a-day people not born or stumbled into immense fortunes, are letting the uber-rich control national politics and politicos? Kind of like how mammals let dinosaurs rule the earth for a long while?

It seems that your accusation is that it's something I'm not doing that is allowing this, but that is like proving a negative. What is it that you are not doing that allows certain powerful interests to control Australia? Or what are everyday ordinary Canadians not doing that allows elites (closely allied with the Australian, American, and British elites) to control the national policies overt and covert?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"I've read some of TEA's posts and s/he is an African American. So maybe yes, they did indeed live in "poor" areas."

Ouch. Chris, you might want to re-think that statement, sure doesn't sound right to me. On its face it's awkward enough, but anecdotally, I'm white, and I come from some pretty financially humble roots, much more so than several people of color I know. C'mon.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

You are letting them win...by allowing them to psychologically disenfranchise you..

*

No one is winning anything.

Anyone that is allowed by law to vote can vote.

Don't you have any problems in Australia or shall we share outrage at you for not doing something about a non existent problem you have?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Thanks for the welcome.

About me:
I am an African American (emphasis on AMERICAN) male. 34 years old and a conservative.

I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood that was 90% black. My parents kept reminding me to "look around. If you don't want to live like this, get an education and get out".
So I went to college. But at 5-6 and 230 pounds I knew I was never going to play pro basketball, so I got a degree in economics.
My contemporary heroes are economist Dr Walter E Williams, Charles Payne of FOX Business, Dr Ben Carson, and Herman Cain.

So my father didn't take me "sightseeing" to poor voting districts, we were in one. And I know what I saw.

So please, don't say I dislike Obama because he's black, ok? I dislike him because he's incompetent.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

So please, don't say I dislike Obama because he's black, ok? I dislike him because he's incompetent.

*

I welcome your input and look forward to your perspective on some topics frequently discussed here.

I have said the very same thing, and so have others--that we dislike Obama's policies, ideas, and incompetence, but certainly don't hate the man.

We have repeatedly been accused of being racists for disagreeing with the president and repeatedly and wrongfully accused of having racist motives when criticizing him.

It will interesting to hear the responses to your post.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 9:51

I haven't been around that long, so nice to meet you, Tea (?). With an econ degree you would be able to elevate the arguments for libertarianism and laissez-faire capitalism above the propaganda level.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"We have repeatedly been accused of being racists for disagreeing with the president and repeatedly and wrongfully accused of having racist motives when criticizing him. "

Tea, in all my years posting here I am only aware of one poster that has accused anyone of being racist for disagreeing with the Presidents policies or being critical of him.

This accusation has been made before and I have asked for examples, none are ever forthcoming.

Having said that, some people have been called out for racist or bigoted personal attacks on the President and First lady as well as African Americans and Muslims......but not on matters of policy.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

In Australia we register with the state government and our name goes on the roll of which electorate we live in....then we can vote in whatever place within that zone , that we choose.
---------------
Youngquinn, each country has this thing called a Constitution. And Australia's is different than the one here. A town may have 100 voting places, but each neighborhood has their own polling place, and you vote in your own neighborhood. And here, each STATE controls their vote, not the Federal goverment.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Having said that, some people have been called out for racist or bigoted personal attacks on the President and First lady as well as African Americans and Muslims......but not on matters of policy."

Chase, some posters have gotten carried away with the "calling out" PC nonsense. The "big butt" comment comes to mind. BTW, my sister has a big butt.

Yes, this could be interesting.

Back on topic. the OP question is: "I have been reading Richards thread about online voting and people have mentioned that in SOME areas the wait is 8 hours?
why?"

So I'll say it again: Poor organization. That was not the norm. The out of the ordinary is more likely to be remarked upon. These were anomalies that should be corrected at the local levels.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 10:23

"Poor organization?" Transparent rubbish, Elvis, and everyone knows it, including you. We had hundreds of unprecedentedly long lines across the country in every state that attempted to suppress the vote by making it harder. Most were in areas that leaned Democratic (the color of the voters was actually not the deciding factor in this case -- heavily young, female, elderly, military areas--all targets). Cause = effect. This is just ONE location, in Virginia.

Of course, those in the lines did not include the many thousands who were illegally disenfranchised before voting day.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

•Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 10:23

""Poor organization?" Transparent rubbish, Elvis, and everyone knows it, including you."

Look Rosie, don't tell me what I know. Since you said it, though, why not present irrefutable proof that your statement is not "rubbish." You do that, and I will have no problem agreeing that my opinion was wrong about the "poor organization" statement.

I won't agree with you about the "transparent rubbish" comment, however. You can own that.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Why Were There Long Voting Lines in 2012? Virginia Holds Answers

Other reasons for the long lines [in VA] were attributed to the lack of early voting in the state and also the new voter ID law, which apparently confused voters and poll workers alike. Virginia’s version of early voting is called in-person, absentee voting, but voters can only do this if they have a really good reason, such as being disabled or elderly.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 11:00

Excuse me, Elvis, I was wrong. I'll restate: I BELIEVE you know that to be rubbish.

As for presenting "irrefutable" evidence, I BELIEVE your definitions are far too mutable, all evidence remarkably refutable.

"Long Lines at Most Oklahoma Polling Places"

Here is a link that might be useful: NewsOK.com


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Exception noted.

I wonder how many thought to take photos of the polling places without long lines. Not me.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosie,

accepting ones,

Really. Review a few threads and give a more honest answer. :)

Or did you mean excepting ones?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 11:30

Accepting, or chronically decepting and excepting? The differences ARE profound, we can agree on that I hope.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Tea, is there a reason you won't give a clue to the general area of the country you post from?

Do you garden?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

It is so easy to not believe something is a problem if you wont accept any evidence that hasn't happened to you. I also did not experience long waits to vote because as I said before I vote by mail. I am not so narrow minded that I wont believe that the problem isn't a real one and a blatant attempt to keep people from voting.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 15:05

Through our extended acquaintanceship,probably most of us are aware of least a few people affected by attempts to steal many elections, not just the presidency. Three people I know, registered for years, found themselves thrown off the voter rolls in 2012, among many others in each case, and had to scramble to get it straightened out before the election.

Then, of course, there were the lines. We're rural so our experience was the nice one of just enough line, but a local book group went into the city to stand in place of elderly and infirm voters while they rested. A friend of our DIL's who lives in the city turned around on the way to work to get some old folding mesh chairs from her shed and drop them off. She never knew who used them, just hoped they got passed on a lot.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Thanks , YoungQuinn for starting this thread - it is a topic which was in need for discussion, though a few don't seem to think any problem existed in the past or will exist in the future, unless it happens to them. More's the pity that it can't be a concern expressed by Americans on behalf of all Americans but it doesn't seem that this a mindset conservatives want to embrace since Obama won the election and so many, too many began to talk about taking "our" country back.

(Since I wasnt aware of any foreign invasion which took the country away from U.S. citizens, I asked in this forum several times, "take it back from who, exactly?" but never got a response.)


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

YQ,

I understand that in Florida, citizens who want to vote also chose how they cast their ballots. They can vote on election day, which may or may not mean waiting in line. Or they can opt to vote absentee with no excuse required. Or they can vote early. Not sure what can be done on election day to keep the lines moving when there are many issues and candidates on the ballot, or when machines fail. Do you use only paper ballots in Australia? I wish we did that everywhere here.

Could you describe what it's like to vote where you live? Are the rules the same throughout Australia? How do you identify yourself and receive your ballot? Do you show picture ID, or any kind of ID? Do you have early voting or absentee voting? Is your name on a list and checked off after you have voted? With mandatory voting, I assume someone checks to see if you showed up. How are citizens punished for not voting? Can non citizens vote in your elections? How old must someone be in order to vote? Are polling places set up temporarily in buildings like schools and churches, government offices, etc as we do here?

Before Oregon went to all mail voting, I worked in a few elections for which I was paid. When I sat as a poll watcher, I was an unpaid volunteer.

I would be surprised if there are any counties in the US that do not have an office of elections with a paid staff. People come and go in every community, year in and year out. Somebody has to add the new names and (hopefully) purge the names of the deceased and those who have left the area. I've never heard of volunteers doing that, but maybe they do in some places.

Thanks for starting this thread.

PS I have one more question. With mandatory voting, are you required to vote on every issue and candidate? Or is it OK to leave some parts of your ballot blank? I sometimes chose to leave a box empty if I don't think any of the candidates are fit to serve, or if I don't know enough about the person or issue. I would hate to be forced to make a choice when I'm uncomfortable with any of the options.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"•Posted by mylab123 z5NW (My Page) on Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 14:06

"Tea, is there a reason you won't give a clue to the general area of the country you post from? "

There's a question. I think we should hear from Dockside, jmc01 and heri_cles, for starters. Same question, so Wake doesn't feel singled out, you know.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Yes, by all means, let's pressure a new poster to give out unnecessary personal information on this forum.

Perhaps some are just waiting with baited breath and links to start posting unflattering information and making nasty inferences about the people and state in which you reside.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 17:51

Yes, none need present that or any other info. Tea may not have thought to include it with all the rest of his very generous snapshot, or chosen not to.

Regarding a transition to a specific photo identification card (the right was against that before they foresaw big trouble getting their people elected):

Why not just photograph people at the poll, take whatever ID they use in their daily lives, like government issued benefit cards and student IDs, verify the ID after voting (at which point any found unverifiable could be used to invalidate their votes), and mail the new IDs to their homes?

If this were done over consecutive elections, in the end everyone would have picture ID on file if not in their pockets, without the unfortunate effect of undercounting the will of young people, female people, old people, military personnel, disabled people, "minority" people and, of course, many just too middlin' and everyone on the left.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

OMG!
Calm down Elvis, Demi!

I didnt ask for his city, state zip, social security # or mother's maiden name, I asked where in the the general area of this entire CONTINENT he is from and if he gardens!
Cool your jets!
Your OWN over-reaction to this poster and about anything regarding this poster is enough to possibly stir suspicion, for pete's sake! If he doent want to respond - fine! Maybe he might feel like offering how he found this specific political forum since it is the only forum he has participated in at all since he joined up a couple of days ago.

I didnt even think to search his name site-wide until you twins so completely over-reacted over two extremely general questions which would have given exactly zip personal info about him, btw.

You might want to watch that.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I didnt even think to search his name site-wide until you twins so completely over-reacted over two extremely general questions which would have given exactly zip personal info about him, btw.

You might want to watch that.

*

Um, no.

Read my post--posting where someone is from can give them grief--it you don't believe it look at the taunts to me and mrskjun about Louisiana, our representatives, etc.

Also, even the smallest amount of information that didn't compromise anyone ten years ago when some of us signed up, when taken by someone with a wicked agenda to go to a lot of trouble to do some guessing/snooping and then misrepresent it, can yield taunting, false accusations, and people going out of their way to look up and reference obscure and personal information about posters and their family members.

Not only can, it has been done.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Yes, Demi is correct. I had a difference of opinion with Jodi last week over a snide remark she made about me specifically and Wisconsin, specifically.

And anyone who's been here awhile is aware of all the taunts the state of Louisiana gets because it is where Demi resides, and I think maybe Mrskjun also.

Mylab, you are the poster making a fuss about Wake's home state; you brought it up and you got all defensive and over explained when I helpfully pointed out the way to do that without singling out the newbie.

You might want to watch that.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Demi made sense with her argument.

Elvis - you just tried way, WAY too hard.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosie, your suggestion is excellent. Why not? We all had to produce something or other when we signed up to vote. It would be easy enough to check in this day and age.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I would like to point out Elvis, again, that despite what you stated , that I "made a fuss" out of Tea's home state? You were flat wrong.

No. I did not.

Again, I made no "fuss" about anything. I did, however, ask what general area of this ENTIRE country he resided.

Like my on information line, where it is posted as being NW. I could have left it at N and it would have given a vague idea if my gardening area without revealing anything except that tropical plants wont survive here during the winter months.
Which brought up my next question, about gardening, which tied up why most of us started posting at Garden web Site in the first place, with this forum being an after thought .

Now. About who created an 'omg! howdareyou ask for such *personally revealing* information about another member!!' kind of outraged fuss...
uh, that would be you.

You might want to watch that.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 20, 14 at 8:05

Thanks, Patriciae. It does strike me as good enough that some place(s) must have done it in the past. Until the "need" for widespread election theft arose, for decades a utility bill with one's name and address, coupled with the name on the registered voter list (checked as the ballot was handed over), worked just fine, suggesting a phased move to a state (cum national! database) ID would also work just fine.

Regarding the "where are you" argument, that IS often worth knowing, city versus rural for instance. Plus, it's just fun to know someone I'm reading here is likely looking out at a blizzard while I'm in a lawn chair by the canal.

Tea can answer or not, just fine. I hope he sticks around to add his viewpoint. With a clever, educated presentation of economic arguments, for instance, maybe Demi, Elvis, the rest of their contingent won't feel so embattled by having their arguments so easily refuted.

I am one, BTW, who brought up Louisiana for Demi and Oklahoma for another poster. The reason was to point out situations in their own states that directly contradict statements they just made.

This is NOT taunting, this is not unfair, this is DISCUSSION. If an incoming fact stings, and sometimes obviously it does, maybe one should pay attention to WHY, not move directly to denial and accusations of unfairness.

Sure, those darned facts tend to be heavy and have sharp corners. But new information should spark questions and new lines of reasoning, not defensive accusations of nastiness to mask the reality that a position has been laid bare and needs further research for some facts of its own.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

At my local polling place I am not known by face to the older folks that keep track of things (not being a born-and-raised local). So it would be possible for some other person not known to them to usurp my name before I got there and steal my vote.

Maybe that will happen some year, it would be much more interesting that what normally happens.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Tea can answer or not, just fine. I hope he sticks around to add his viewpoint. With a clever, educated presentation of economic arguments, for instance, maybe Demi, Elvis, the rest of their contingent won't feel so embattled by having their arguments so easily refuted."

*

Actually, few of my "arguments" are actually refuted.

When I give an opinion, there is obviously going to be a difference of opinion.

Perhaps Tea can give a "clever, educated presentation" to demonstrate the difference for you.

*

As to Louisiana, Rosie, people have been trashing Louisiana long before "Rosie" was participating on this forum.

Don't make the mistake of assuming the comments were all about you.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Egotism?

There may be a difference of opinion also about which arguments do get refuted or not.

Kate


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 20, 14 at 9:37

Egotism?

There may be a difference of opinion also about which arguments do get refuted or not.

Kate

*

Egotism right back at you for that statement, kate.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

If a lay person has a certain opinion on some particular subject, say addicition or mental illness, and that opinion is contradicted by medical / scientific knowledge, then I would say that the opinion has been proven to be either ignorant, false, worthless, or all three.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?2

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 20, 14 at 13:29

Demi, grow a thicker skin, for heavens sake, and stop personalizing every disagreement with your positions. Most people seldom imagine disagreement with their positions to be just a way of attacking them personally.

I can't speak to what happened before I was here, but pointing out that a situation exists in your state in order to refute a statement by you on an issue does not trash your state, it refutes your statement. We happen to have nice friends in Louisiana and don't get to visit them nearly enough. I like Louisiana. We've even considered buying property there.

I'll add that truth is supposed to be a complete defense to charges of defamation, especially on a Hot Topics forum. That freedom of speech thing.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?k

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 20, 14 at 13:36

Demi, grow a thicker skin, for heavens sake, and stop personalizing every disagreement with your positions. Most people seldom imagine disagreement with their positions to be just a way of attacking them personally.

I can't speak to what happened before I was here, but pointing out that a situation exists in your state in order to refute a statement by you on an issue does not trash your state, it refutes your statement. We happen to have nice friends in Louisiana and don't get to visit them nearly enough. All states have warts, and I like Louisiana in spite of its lack of perfection. We've even considered buying property there.

I'll add that truth is supposed to be a complete defense to charges of defamation, especially on a Hot Topics forum. That freedom of speech thing.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

nancy_in_venice _ca - "If a lay person has a certain opinion on some particular subject, say addicition (sic) or mental illness, and that opinion is contradicted by medical / scientific knowledge, then I would say that the opinion has been proven to be either ignorant, false, worthless, or all three."

(I'm not quite sure what this all has to do with voter line-ups anymore)

but I'm going to disagree with this statement. Sometimes personal experience and those darned exceptions can validate the opinion of a lay person - despite what medical/scientific knowledge states. And medical/scientific knowledge is always evolving.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

bfenton, if you had read the long exchange to which I refer, there was no personal experience cited, but a continued insistence that substance abuse is all about poor personal choices, and a refusal to acknowledge that a medical condition, mental illness, or personal history (as in physical / mental abuse ) can influence substance dependency.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Nancy: (insert appropriate subject) "...then I would say that the opinion has been proven to be either ignorant, false, worthless, or all three."

Yes, you would/do/have. Out loud. Real loud.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Southeast 7A/B (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 20, 14 at 16:48

Snap, snap.

Nancy's observation is valid for any subject. But as for depression, because I'm shocked at the stubborn ignorance displayed: Many who suffer from depression turn initially to drugs and/or alcohol as a way of self-medicating their misery. Yes, it is self destructive behavior, but a clue is that these people have, to put it mildly, a disposition to self destruction. We know now that depression has physical causes, as well as social, including faulty mood regulation by the brain and genetic predisposition.

Now you know. Stay tuned to this because it's being researched extensively. We know more every day as we move from the darkness of ignorance to enlightenment.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Poor planning, too many voters trying to vote in one polling place.

I agree that there are too many voters trying to vote in one polling place. I disagree that it is poor planning. In fact, in all too many cases, it is very careful planning to cause the long lines due to too many people voting in one place. Usually with more limited hours (eliminating early voting) to cause even longer lines.

Thankfully, when you try to disenfranchise voters, it often comes back to you bite you in the butt, as it did in both 2008 and again in 2012.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"A favorite tactic, BTW, and not at all rare, is to direct whole neighborhoods to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time."

Rosie...for whom is this a "favorite tactic?" Could you provide your source so we can all see for ourselves where these "not at all rare" events are happening? You didn't name any communities where "whole neighborhoods" were directed "to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time," If it's common, the list has to be long.

You didn't mention what the DOJ has done about these civil rights violations. How many people are currently facing charges? How many have already been convicted? Feel free to tell us about the penalties the DOJ handed down to those who have been convicted.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

In re- reading this thread, I wanted to make a further comment on the responses of Demi and Elvis on Sat at 19:29 and 19:52.

I don't know what Demi was referring to specifically regarding a lot of her statement but thought at that time she was talking about others here pointing out the problems Louisiana has in the areas of ranking compared to the rest of the country and poverty level.
Im pretty sure the state my parents decided to retire in after his retirement from the military ranks lower in all areas compared to Louisiana. The state is imo stunning in it's beauty and the life long residents who were my friends made in high school were loving, caring people - as I believe most people we make deep friendships with are, no matter what state they reside. I love many aspects of it but would never dream of defending it's deep, sometimes centuries-old flaws, some of which persist to this very day, nor would I deny them. Why would I? To deny them allows no room for the possibility for correction - it creates imo stagnation and allows for no growth nor progression, as displayed by the state I attended high school in.
I never considered it my "home" state, only my country is considered my home. The state was the place my parents built there home and stayed for a great variety of reasons, including the halfway point between their two families. I never considered I would stay there forever.
I didnt have enough years to form the ties and binds to allow for the kind of feelings people often have regarding the town or state where they grew up - the military does create a kind of nomadic lifestyle which must have been something my nature agreed with because I loved it, married into it and had only two places I lived which I was unhappy in my whole life. I dreaded his retirement, actually.
Putting down roots was something I wanted to be ready for only when DH was in his final, full retirement years with his working days behind him.
Still wish it could have worked out that way, I loved our old life, cried as I left my old neighbors and friends while in full anticipation and excitement over the idea if creating a new home base in a brand new place and meeting brand new friends in the immediate future. It was exciting and fun, sometimes very lonely but never boring.
So, maybe I dont understand how it feels to have a home state which is thought poorly of and as a result, causes embarrassment. But if it's true, how can it be resented or denied when talking about politics or failings within our country?

However, if you Demi were also referring to the ability of some who can look at your name up there highlighted in blue and figure out the area it is located - I dont know anything about it, didnt even know it happened to you specifically and still dont WANT to know how it's done. The whole idea of it all makes me extremely uncomfortable.
I would not care if the forum moderator used it, it would probably be a good idea for them in the best interest of the site. I just wish nobody else could.
I hate that, the invasion of privacy regarding google, google earth - all of it. Never have been at the face book site, used twitter, instagram or any of that stuff for the same reason.
I dont understand the eagerness of the world to so freely - even eagerly - give away all their private info via those places yet have a coronary over the idea that our govt. and maybe others too ! hears them talk about their own awful husband to their married boyfriend or order a pizza or make plans with their friend- like anyone cares about that info.or even remember it before the phone is disconnected. Its terrible that it took place, but its not nearly as invasive as a stranger trying to discover personal information about another via the internet.
But will post a pic of themselves and their lively, bikini clad daughter on a vacation and never think that maybe some nut doesnt do the nasty while looking at their daughter or some invasive somebody could pick out of it somehow the info necessary to find out the home address and rob them blind?
I dont get any of it and dont want to know how its done. They can find out personal info about me easy enough without my actually giving it away so easily by the facebook stuff or posting pictures, instagram etc. If that is the type of thing what you are talking about, Demi, I dont blame you. If it isnt, I dont know what you are complaining about, it's all rather vague accusations about nothing I can figure out.

As far as Elvis goes, I have no idea what Elvis what you were referring to regarding Jodi- but really Elvis. You take exception to snide remarks? Really? You? Who got and preserve the reputation a the resident ankle biter within a VERY few short weeks of making your very first post here and never doing anything at all to change it?

I dont get any of this deep resentment.
Few, if indeed any in here are free of shared responsibility regarding their troubled relationships with others.
We all made our bed in here, some have more comfortable beds than others because they were very careful about how they went about designing them. If anyone can't acknowledge that about themselves, this isnt the place for them. The internet is flat stuffed with people who will not only agree with what you say but admire the very way in which you say it. If that is what you have been used to all your adult life, though I cant imagine such a world, and continue to prefer to converse with only like-minded people, it wont be that experience here save for those who share your political viewpoints, and even then, there have been some strong disagreements between liberals.
Conservatives here do have it pretty darn good, rarely have I seen one heatedly disagree with another and almost without exception, conservatives tend to side with conservatives even when things turn ugly.

Liberals, not at all true of them. Myself, I like that it isnt written in stone that liberals will always side with liberals.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"A favorite tactic, BTW, and not at all rare, is to direct whole neighborhoods to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time."


Rosie...for whom is this a "favorite tactic?" Could you provide your source so we can all see for ourselves where these "not at all rare" events are happening? You didn't name any communities where "whole neighborhoods" were directed "to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time," If it's common, the list has to be long.


You didn't mention what the DOJ has done about these civil rights violations. How many people are currently facing charges? How many have already been convicted? Feel free to tell us about the penalties the DOJ handed down to those who have been convicted.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

***A favorite tactic, BTW, and not at all rare, is to direct whole neighborhoods to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time.***

"Rosie...for whom is this a "favorite tactic?" Could you provide your source so we can all see for ourselves where these "not at all rare" events are happening?"

"You didn't mention what the DOJ has done about these civil rights violations. How many people are currently facing charges? How many have already been convicted? Feel free to tell us about the penalties the DOJ handed down to those who have been convicted."

I haven't seen anything about that in the news. I would like to know, also.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Deep South, USA 7A/B (My Page) on
    Wed, Apr 23, 14 at 9:26

"Liberals, not at all true of them. Myself, I like that it isn't written in stone that liberals will always side with liberals." Me too, Mylab. How could it be otherwise given what makes us who we are? :)

Elvis, no matter how selective you may be in your reading and choices of radio stations, I do not believe you could possibly be unaware that big-time election tampering exists, and of its many tricks, or that you do not know the answers to your own questions perfectly well.

And whatever may be behind it all, given such strong patterns displayed over a long period, an image is taking more form all the time. Looking beyond people's "social faces" to evaluate their actions is always a good idea.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Posted by elvis 4 (My Page) on Tue, Apr 22, 14 at 21:13
I haven't seen anything about that in the news. I would like to know, also.

***************************************************************

Elvis...do you hear the crickets? chirp......chirp......chirp


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Nik, I would give Rosie the benefit of the doubt and figure she didn't comprehend your questions, so we'll just bump this up one more time to give her the opportunity to comply. Fair play and all.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Why does an Australian give a damn about our, USA, voting? Is she thinking of giving up her Australian citizenship and emigrating, here? Or is she just bashing America? Inquiring mind, here.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I suspect that like many non-USAsians, she is flabbergasted at the convoluted and apparently deliberate barriers to holding a fair election in your country.

But youngquinn is a big girl with her own mind, and will probably speak for herself.

We're only here to help you and your country :>;


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Bhutan? I just watched a documentary about Bhutan. Beautiful country.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"Why does an Australian give a damn about our, USA, voting? Is she thinking of giving up her Australian citizenship and emigrating, here? Or is she just bashing America? Inquiring mind, here."
Rosalie , this comment is irrelevant.
Do you have anything to add to the discussion?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosalie's comment is very valid and quite relevant as it directly relates to the entire purpose of this thread.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

no jmco its not.

the entire purpose of this thread is to answer the question I posed in the op.

"I have been reading Richards thread about online voting and people have mentioned that in SOME areas the wait is 8 hours?

why? "

If you want to ask why some Americans are so thin skinned that they see any comment about the effectivess of their democratic systems to be "Bashing" then I suggest you start another thread instead of further derailing this one.

Do you consider America and the way its voting systems act to disenfranchise its citizens to be above discussion? if so , then why?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

The fine to not show up at the poll down under is only $40, so I'm guessing plenty don't vote just like here. And there is no penalty for a blank ballot.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

voter turn out for the last federal election in Australia was 93.23.

:and there is no penalty for a blank ballot" well duh pn ....as the only way to know who submits a blank ballot would bwe to LOOK at it...it is not surprising that there is no penalty!!
for your info from the link the informal vote in Oz is around 5%.

but what is your point?

Here is a link that might be useful: percentage of Australians who vote


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Pat...according to the Australian Electoral Commission, voter turnout is around 95%.

Nobody can know if you put in a blank ballot ("Donkey Vote"), as it's a secret ballot!

Here is a link that might be useful: AEC


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

pn let me try again. sure Australians can submit a blank piece of paper if they choose ,,, and sure the penalty is only $40....but the whole point of my comparison is that we are activelyENCOURAGED to vote. No one tries to discourage us from voting

as well as a right to vote , we are told it is our RESPONSIBILTY to vote...hence the great difference in philosophy.

I think it is ironic that America...who nominates itself as the great defender of democracy has such trouble practising it at home.
dont like that? then look to your system rather than critising the one who dares to breing it to your attentipn...and from the way your write....I have to ask you if you even bother to vote?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Actually, the penalty for not voting (at least in last year's Federal Election), was cancellation of car registration and driver's licence!

I was out of the country during the election, and there's no Oz Embassy here, but I simply emailed them and explained, and they replied "OK, thanks. No penalty."

And they never asked for proof or supporting documents...


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

which goes to show even more clearly that we are not driven to the polls by the fear of paying a big penalty... we are educated to belive that it is our responsibility to vote. As shax is well aware Im sure. today is ANZAC day in Australia and New Zealand ...so this discussion is even more relevant.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

How did I criticize you?

My point is that the vote is compulsory, in a very minor way, in Australia, is probably not the reason for a high voting rate. There are much more powerful societal forces in play. There are major demographic differences between Au and USA, after all.

These also have a lot to do with the difference in gun violence as well, rather than the official gun-control policies, I suspect.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"There are major demographic differences between Au and USA, after all. "

please elaborate.

and BTW I do apologise, you did not critisize me ,...I had your confused with the rosalie who posted a while before. But I am waiting for your elaboration as to how demographic differences affect voter encouragment


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Apology accepted.

I shan't elaborate on something so obvious; you know what you see in australia, and you have google and the ability to read about the demographics of the US, and these data are not sensationalized by media as are the news about this OP, for example.

Demographics explains many mysteries:

why VT has an open carry policy, and has forever, and yet the murder rate is tiny; why Canada has a much lower crime rate than the US, despite many similarities; why Iceland has a very high ownership of firearms and yet a tiny murder rate; why Scandinavia has low crime and high prosperity in comparison to parts of Europe and the US, and so on.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Deep South, USA 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 9:09

I'm glad to see people from around the world here commenting about what we're up to--and them. In a very complex and interactive world, we should be talking about what we're all doing.

Including what's working and not working, and I'm all for copying the heck out of what's proved to work. Including Australia's encouragement to vote. Given its excellent results there, a duty to vote should be added to all the things our government has to require of us so we can function.

Pnbrown, I suspect the practice has generated a positive synergy where penalty encourages vote, which grows interest in what's on the ballot to some degree, which results not only in high vote numbers but in at least a somewhat better educated citizenry. Surely the benefit outweighs the cost? We lost a lot of our freedom of speech when screaming fire in theaters, and all similar actions, was made illegal, but who seriously objects to that loss of freedom?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosie, I doubt it.

A high turnout is easily explained by a much lower segment of the population that considers itself, rightly or wrongly, to be hopelessly disenfranchised.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

you dont get off that easily pn....."I shan't elaborate on something so obvious; you know what you see in australia, and you have google and the ability to read about the demographics of the US, and these data are not sensationalized by media as are the news about this OP, for example."

spell it out .. and spell out your subsequent argument

. and , just in case you forgot to let me know. Do you vote? (if you chose not to share of course I will respect that)


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Why does an Australian give a damn about our, USA, voting? Is she thinking of giving up her Australian citizenship and emigrating, here? Or is she just bashing America? Inquiring mind, here.

Actually, what inquiring minds would like to know is why so many Americans are not interested in what goes on in other countries. Don't you think you just might be able to learn something from other countries? Or are you so arrogant that you think we Americans do everything perfectly?

Also, what inquiring minds would like to know is why some Americans are so defensive when asked a legitimate question from a non-American. Geez, get over yourself.

I would like to point out that attacking a non-American for asking a legitimate question about how and why things are the way they are here, or for giving their valid opinion on topics here, does nothing but make the attacker look small minded and silly.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Asking me if I vote is effectively an ad hominem - it's irrelevant to the argument at hand - which has become whether making voting mandatory is a good idea. I am perplexed as to why you care - I certainly don't care whether you or anyone else votes or not.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

yq, we have a large segment of our population that doesn't believe that voting serves any purpose, with serious questions as to whom government serves. With the Court's decision on Citizens United and McCutcheon, that segment risks being greatly increased.

Perhaps the smaller population in Australia helps the feeling of involvement in the political process.

Even though I am disgusted with our system of campaign finance, frustrated with the recent attempts to limit voter participation, and question the integrity of our voting tabulations, I still vote. Why make it any easier for the ________ [insert plural pejorative here].


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Deep South, USA 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 10:37

"A high turnout is easily explained by a much lower segment of the population that considers itself, rightly or wrongly, to be hopelessly disenfranchised."

PNBrown, you're absolutely right that that has to be a factor.

But think about it. You just came up with another, extremely important positive result from requiring everyone to vote. Really.

And that leads me to yet another: Elvis's insistence that there is no voter suppression and election theft in America would at least be far closer to the truth in Australia.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Do you really want to encourage everyone to vote? Do you really want to put your lives in the hands of people with an IQ of 78?

Really?

If you were to wake up tomorrow and everyone but a handful of elites suddenly developed an IQ of 78, would you really want to have a government that they decided best to govern us?

Where would you draw the line?


Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

We have a voting age limit.

Laws are written and taxes are imposed on people younger than the age limit.

Shouldn't they get to vote?

Is five too young you think?


Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

If someone's on their death bed, would you want them to vote on how you're going to be living the rest of your life?

Should people get more votes if they're young and it will affect them more than a dying person?

Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

My dear old Aunt Ruth who can't tell you what day of the week it is. Should she decide your future?

Where do you draw the line?

Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Wikipedia

Not too young, not too old....

"A report suggesting that consideration be given to reducing the voting age to 16 in the Australian Capital Territory in Canberra, Australia was tabled in the territorial legislature on 26 September 2007 and defeated.[59]

....

The only known maximum voting age is in the Holy See, where the franchise for electing a new Pope is restricted to Cardinals under the age of 80."

Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

From Wikipedia again, age limits by country....

"Argentina: 16, 16 to 18 and 70+ optional.

Bosnia and Herzegovina: 18, 16 if employed

Brazil: 18 to 70 compulsory, 16 to under 18 AND over 70 optional. Voting is also optional to all illiterate citizens older than 16.

Dominican Republic: 18, universal and compulsory; married persons regardless of age (members of the armed forces and national police cannot vote)

Ecuador: 16; universal, compulsory for literate persons ages 18---65, optional for other eligible voters

Guatemala: 18; universal (active duty members of the armed forces may not vote and are restricted to their barracks on election day)

Indonesia: 17; universal and married persons regardless of age. except for the military and police

Korea, North: 17; members of the military have the right to vote, regardless of age

Kuwait: 21; females and males who are not in the military or police forces; all voters must have been citizens for 20 years; current proposal for reduction to 18[69][68]

Kuwait: 21; females and males who are not in the military or police forces; all voters must have been citizens for 20 years; current proposal for reduction to 18[69]

Oman: 21, universal except for members of the military and police.

Pakistan: 18; universal; joint electorates and reserved parliamentary seats for women and non-Muslims

Paraguay: 18; universal and compulsory until the age of 75

Peru: 18; universal and compulsory until the age of 70; (members of the military and national police could not vote until a Constitutional Reform in 2005 [71])

Saudi Arabia: adult male citizens age 21 or older (for partial municipal council elections and women to be allowed by 2015)

United Arab Emirates: none[76] but at least 25 (the minimum age is decided by the ruler of each Emirate and may vary from one Emirate to another)[77]",

I don't understand the police and armed forces restrictions.

Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"And that leads me to yet another: Elvis's insistence that there is no voter suppression and election theft in America would at least be far closer to the truth in Australia."

Elvis is not responsible for substantiating your claims. You are. Substantiate this one with your source:

Posted by rosie Southeast on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 13:28

"A favorite tactic, BTW, and not at all rare, is to direct whole neighborhoods to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time."

For whom is this a "favorite tactic?" Could you provide your source so we can all see for ourselves where these "not at all rare" events are happening? You didn't name any communities where "whole neighborhoods" were directed "to the wrong polling place, also to change it but not notify them in time," If it's common, the list has to be long.

You didn't mention what the DOJ has done about these civil rights violations. How many people are currently facing charges? How many have already been convicted? Tell us about the penalties the DOJ handed down to those who have been convicted.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I'm guessing a number close to the numbers of people who are being tried and convicted of voter fraud.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Interesting that Brazil has compulsory voting as well. According to Veja magazine in an article I read the other day, Brazil is the most corrupt of large nations. I think Mexico is no 2. Afghanistan and South Korea are the most absolutely corrupt, but they are very small nations.

NZ has the lowest corruption in the world, closely followed by the Scandinavian countries. Again, remote, lightly populated, homogeneous but with connections to dominant world elites. Results: little strife and violence, high prosperity. Such qualities will naturally lead to a high voter turnout.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Brazil is the most corrupt of large nations

From what's been in the media lately, I would say that honor goes to Russia. Unless the corporate media is ginning up for war . . . again.

Map of Corruption


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Deep South, USA 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 14:56

Hay, what's the big difference between people who can't think and those who won't think?

I'll actually answer that myself. Honesty and motive. An earnest and honest 80 IQ with good intentions will be a better citizen any day than a 120 IQ self-made idiot who combs the web for lies to support what facts will not.

I'm totally serious and believe earnestly and honestly myself that we'd be a far better people living in a far better world if the latter were never born.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"An earnest and honest 80 IQ with good intentions will be a better citizen any day than a 120 IQ self-made idiot who combs the web for lies to support what facts will not.'

You talking about me?

120? Please, don't insult me.

How about 120 with good intentions?

"lies to support what facts will not"... Reminds me that there are some people asking for your sources up above.

Take your time.

"self-made idiot who combs the web for lies to support what facts will not."

Whew, for a moment I thought you might be talking about moi.

"I'm totally serious and believe earnestly and honestly myself that we'd be a far better people living in a far better world if the latter were never born."

In the old days someone like that would get to vote in Chicago. Maybe two or three times.

I don't feel like looking it up. Maybe later, but what restrictions did our very thoughtful, very brilliant founding fathers decide about who should vote?

Surely you wouldn't call them stupid, would you? I bet a lot of them had IQ's above 80.

I'd love to see a Constitution written by a group of 80 IQ people.

Hay


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

  • Posted by rosie Deep South, USA 7A/B (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 17:44

Actually, no, Hay, I was not talking about you. If I thought just holding different opinions and different goals made one worse than useless, I'd be the sort I'm talking about.

As for the rest of it, doing without self-made malicious and obstructive fools would not leave us without smart people -- by a long shot. There are lots and lots around--and would be the same as before because people who ignore facts in favor of more satisfactory lies are, by definition, not effectively among them.

Nor would it eliminate obstruction. It'd just leave mostly the kind of people who are willing to come to agreements for the sake of getting the jobs done -- instead of preferring to burn the barn down for spite. Or as some now often present it, because it's the only way to save the barn.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"And that leads me to yet another: Elvis's insistence that there is no voter suppression and election theft in America would at least be far closer to the truth in Australia."

My ears have pricked up. I didn't do that, Rosie. Why did you fabricate that? If you keep doing that, I going to have to worry about you.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

pn once again you didnt talk about demographics ...to explain what you mean. (yes I know what demographics means but I want you to show how people are choosing not to vote because of who they are ....instead of being manipulated out of voting by those who would protectt eh status quo)

Once again you tell me what my thread is about!!? It is not about compulsory voting.....it is about why some of you people put up with being stood in line for 8 hours, why you still vote on a weekday etc etc

You cant see that you are being conned by these circumstances.

Hay your statements or questions are mainly ridiculous, but they do give you the tome of elitism.
If you dont know what day it is...then your doctor arranges for you to be taken off the voting list......etc.

but your question "do you reallly want to encourage everyone to vote ...the answer is YES. (everyone who is entitled) everybody in your country is affected by the policies of Government, right? then why shouldnt everybody have a say in government?????

and PN I am sorry that I have perplexed you by caring what happens in another country but you will have to live with that.

At HTs we discuss other countries alll the time....so on this thread we are discussing what is wrong with the American voting system which allows it to flaunt democrasy while parading around the world as the guardian of democracy in other countries.

I am saying America should pull its socks up at home first.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

I know nothing about the supposed voting problems - all I know of from direct knowledge is that anyone who wants to vote can. Several people have told you the same thing on this thread. You prefer to run with some partisan bickering sensationalism as being an accurate portrayal of what goes on generally, which simply means that you don't know what's going on.

Same as the rest of us.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

what do you think would happen PN if all the Americans who were eligible to register actually did so?

Do you think your system could cope?

Why do you still vote on a day when more Americans work (than on a saturday)
whose interests are served by this situation?

and WHY wont you elaborate on why you believe that DEMOGRAPHICS are the cause of people not voting? Do you think it may portray you in a less than positive manner? You said demographics was to blame.....so come on pn...spit it out...what , precisely do you mean by this?

and the fact that you "know nothing" about "supposed voting problems" is disturbing.
why is your head in the sand?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

YQ, to do this properly you really need to do it in a small bare room with a bright light in Brown's eyes. Maybe tie him to a chair.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

elvis can you please tell me how your comment added to this discussion?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Jillinnj wrote: "I would like to point out that attacking a non-American for asking a legitimate question about how and why things are the way they are here, or for giving their valid opinion on topics here, does nothing but make the attacker look small minded and silly."

Wow. One simple question told you all of this? I guess my question was illegitimate, in your opinion.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Rosie, I agree with you completely. You were clear and well spoken with your argument.

I would take disagreement only with the last paragraph at your 14:56 post.

It would be better if those who were so lucky as to have been born with such native intelligence but who use it to obstruct progress in thought with action, instead used it to advance progress in thought, with action.

The country would then stand a much better chance to become a peaceful, compassionate, less self absorbed, less grasping nation of individuals. In my opinion.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

It's disturbing to you that I report the reality in my district (and any others that I know about)? I don't have a solution for your disturbance.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

so no answer to the other questions I raised PN Brown? why not?

"the reality in my district" is a lot different from how you phrased it in your last post where you said "I know nothing about the supposed voting problems"
a man of your intelligence cold investigate if he chose to and not just rely on what happens in his own area... I suspect that you dont bother to vote .(..you have chosen not to say and that is your right...but I am surmising from previous comments you have made ) . That , of course is up to you and is no crime at all in your country in fact at lease half of those eligible do the same.

Perhaps this s why my thread is so bothersome to you ?

You are also perplexed as to why I am interested, yes you make no comment when I give my reasons (BTW I dont have to give any reasons , I can post what I like)


you havent answered my questions ..so I will post them again maybe someone else will?

"what do you think would happen PN if all the Americans who were eligible to register actually did so?

Do you think your system could cope?

Why do you still vote on a day when more Americans work (than on a saturday)
whose interests are served by this situation? "

and how do you blame the population makeup of your country for this reluctance to vote without insulting people and/or making sweeping comments that deal with a population subset in its entirety?


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Nope, no compulsory voting. I can't imagine anything worse than having a bunch of disinterested people being compelled to pick someone. Anyone. Just so they can prove to someone else that they voted (or just showed up). What's the sense of dragging people out if they are not going to vote for anyone, or will vote for someone they don't necessarily like?

Plus, not voting can be a form of protest in itself, which is a free speech issue. I think that compulsory voting would fall on constitutional grounds.

Which is worse - being manipulated out of voting or being manipulated into voting? Why assume that people who don't vote are being manipulated? Maybe they are apolitical, anti political, or just plain uninterested. Why assume that forcing people to vote isn't a form of manipulation, or is somehow a better form of manipulation (like there is good manipulation)?

I've known people who intentionally didn't vote because of their hatred for politicians. Not specific politicians, but politicians in general. I see no benefit to anyone in forcing these people to show up at a polling place for no reason whatsoever.

Then there are other people who don't vote because no politician has been persuasive enough to get many potential voters to the polling booth. Low turnout reflects a lack of quality candidates or a lack of decent competition.

People who want to vote (and can legally vote) will find a way to do so. Considering all of the civic organizations that will provide transportation and assistance and are constantly advertised at election time, I think this deprivation argument falls short on logic.

As to lines, usually only a fraction of eligible voters will turn out in any given election. Polls are staffed based on population figures and average turnout. That, and you can't force people to work at polls. Some years we had to borrow people from a neighboring town because no one was interested in working the polls. Sometimes it's downright impossible to recruit people to work the polls, so you're working with fewer people to get voters signed in and ushered through the process.

Sometimes people start coming out of the woodwork in some elections. Or, they all seem to decide to vote at the same time. I've seen that happen, where it seems like everyone shows up right after dinner. Then there are lines, even though there were no lines earlier in the day. So, it can be a snapshot in time that doesn't necessarily give an accurate portrayal, where you have a few hours when lots of people turn out, and other times during the day when it's downright boring because only a few people trickle in over the course of several hours.

No one takes pictures of the empty rooms or the lack of lines. Maybe we should do that. :-)

It's time for online voting. It is grossly inefficient to have thousands (in some places, tens of thousands in a district) of people in every district get to a polling place, one that has to be staffed by people and equipped with machines that are prone to breaking down, when other options are available.

It also eliminates a lot of the need for absentee ballots, which are very prone to tampering, not to mention disputed for minor, sometimes stupid, reasons.

Going to a polling place or having absentee ballots should be an option under limited circumstances, not a necessity.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

" That, and you can't force people to work at polls. Some years we had to borrow people from a neighboring town because no one was interested in working the polls. " do you pay them?

one of my friends works at a polling place on election days. she makes over $500 for her days work.

its true.

"Plus, not voting can be a form of protest in itself, which is a free speech issue. I think that compulsory voting would fall on constitutional grounds. "

and where Lionheart does the protest of these people get them?

do the politicians change policies? ? no , of course not.

my WHOLE POINT i s that by NOT voting you are playing rtright into their hands by preserving the status quo.

you have been suckered.

NOT voting will NEVER change anything.. Do you think that polliticians CARE one whit if you dont vote? ....that just means that you are not threatening to vote for the other guy...so they dont have to lift their game.

You have wasted your voice America

The sheer fact that your systems could not cope with all who are eligible voting is PROOF that you (as a nation) are discouraged from voting.

you have been told it is your right not to vote.....but does that mean that you can opt out and do not have to live by the policies the electeds put into place?

if you have to live in the country why would you give away your voice?
..... plain and simple


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

The sheer fact that your systems could not cope with all who are eligible voting is PROOF that you (as a nation) are discouraged from voting.

Polling places for in-person voting could not handle elections with high voter turn out. In California voting is tabulated on the county level (precinct by precinct), and counties are usually strapped for funds. As you must be aware, taxes are considered an anathema, and although people use tax-funded services every day, the constant complaint is that nothing good ever comes from taxes. And so it goes for payment (or what laughably passes for payment) for poll workers, and purchases of voting machines and optical scanners. If there were increases in registered voters, and corresponding increased traffic at the polling places, the counties would turn to an alternate form of voting -- most likely voting by mail as an economical solution. If there were greater use of vote-by-mail, the powers that be would be even less inclined to have election day a work holiday. Given that a number of establishments do not close for the national holidays, I don't think having a holiday for voting is viable.

I'm in a congressional district that will not have an incumbent running (for the first time in some 30 years). I happened upon a radio broadcast of a debate among the hordes of candidates. I'd no idea there was a debate planned, and a local public radio station aired the event, which means a small audience. Politics are not given much importance in comparison with the money-making broadcasts on TV and radio.

Another factor discouraging interest in politics and voting is the trend over the last couple decades to adults holding more than one job -- perhaps two part-time, or one ful-time with part-time to supplement income. Also, full-time employment now encroaches into the home. Not much time is left for the family, let alone keeping up with local, state, and national politics.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

Nancy I have been doing some more investigating and I have found another major difference between our two systems.

and I quote from wiki'
"Inequality in Election Day resources

Elections in the United States are funded at the local level, often unequally. In the 2004 elections, Wyoming spent $2.15 per voter while California spent $3.99 per voter. In contrast, Canada spends $9.51 per voter. Underfunded election areas can result in long lines at polling places, requiring some voters either to wait hours to cast a ballot or to forgo their right to vote in that election. Voters who cannot wait the required amount of time are therefore disenfranchised, while voters in well-funded areas with sufficient voting capacity may face minimal or no waiting time.

" In Australia our electoral system is funded at the state and federal level....so EVERYBODY gets the same allocation of resources for their polling place.

In our system it is not possible that our electorate wont have a plethora of candidates running as we vote for the senate on a state basis.
sometimes we have as many as 150 candidates that we can choose to number from one to 150 (we can also choose to simply vote our parety line and place a number above the line. I recall last Federal election the senate ballot paper was over one metre long.

yes , that is not a mistake ...one metre long. and me being me, I of course numbered every one!

Here is a link that might be useful: picture of the australian ballot paper

This post was edited by youngquinn on Sat, Apr 26, 14 at 5:14


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

we take voting so seriously in Australia that , last year when 1300 senate ballot papers were lost in western australia the election was held again (in that area) rather than disenfranchise those 1300 people.

"cost was not an isssueTHE result of Western Australia's Senate race may be decided in court or even by a new election after electoral officials admitted losing nearly 1400 votes.

The Australian Electoral Commission has called in former federal police commissioner Mick Keelty to investigate the loss of 1375 ballot papers missing from the WA Senate recount.

Electoral Commissioner Ed Killesteyn said a “serious administrative issue came to light” during the recount in the six Senate seats.

“Specifically, 1,375 votes, all of which had been verified during the initial WA Senate count, could not be located, rechecked or verified in the recount process.

“On behalf of the AEC I apologise to the electors of Western Australia and to the candidates and parties for this failure of the AEC.”

Mr Killesteyn said Mr Keelty had been appointed to conduct an independent investigation into the matter.

He would establish the facts regarding the missing ballot papers, and identify any procedural failures that may have occurred.

Mr Killesteyn said the AEC would also closely examine the Senate outcome in Western Australia and consider whether any petition to the Court of Disputed Returns was necessary.

AEC spokesman Phil Diak said the Court of Disputed Returns may be asked to finally declare the winners, but added that there was also a provision for a fresh by-election to be held.

“The distribution of preferences and the declaration of the poll will go ahead and it is required to go ahead,” Mr Diak said.

“Then the commission will consider the implications, and whether itself it regards the result as one that may need further consideration.”

The AEC is undertaking the recount following an appeal by Greens senator Scott Ludlham, who lost his seat to the Palmer United Party's Zhenya Wang in the initial count.

The ballot papers had already been classified, with 1255 counted as formal above-the-line ballots and 120 as informal votes.

Mr Diak said there had been an exhaustive, but ultimately unsuccessful, search for the missing ballot papers.

“We've looked methodically through all the premises where those votes were stored and where they were stored,” he told ABC News24.

“We've exhaustively and comprehensively in WA in all the premises tracked where the votes have been, transported and so forth, and it's not until today - with all the last parcels of votes to be recounted opened - that that process of elimination has led us to the conclusion that they have been misplaced.”

Special Minister of State Michael Ronaldson said the news was “disconcerting” and “deeply disappointing”.

“I have personally expressed to the Electoral Commissioner my strong view that this situation is totally unsatisfactory and that I, as the responsible minister, view this matter very dimly,” Senator Ronaldson said.

“Incidents such as this go to the heart of the AEC's reputation. Trust in our democratic institutions is paramount.”

Mr Killesteyn said the recount would be completed soon.

The WA recount was ordered when Senator Ludlam was ruled to have lost his seat after one crucial choke point in the count left him just 14 votes short.

That angered Clive Palmer, who labelled the recount undemocratic and called the AEC incompetent.

Mr Palmer today seized on the latest revelation, accusing the AEC of deliberately rigging the election.

“It's just trying to rig the election, it's trying to stop our party from having the balance of power and the AEC interfering in politics,” he told ABC radio.

Mr Palmer says the original Senate count must stand.

“If the AEC is unable to count all the ballots then the first count must stand,” he said. “That would be the law in the matter.”

And he has called for a judicial inquiry, alleging the AEC may have destroyed the ballots.

Senate Ludlam says the ballot papers must be found before any result can be declared.

“It's inexcusable,” he told ABC radio.

“We think its completely inappropriate for the results of these seats to be declared until those votes have been found otherwise you effectively disenfranchise 1,300 people.”"



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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

If everyone who was eligible registered (and voted), most likely Democrats would win everywhere every time. Probably things for the bottom 50% would get a little better (elite power structure would have to throw a few more bones), but the most important things, foreign policy and energy policy would not change in the slightest.

It's a game, same as in Australia. Wake up.


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RE: Why do Amercians wait in line to long to vote?

"and where Lionheart does the protest of these people get them?"

It doesn't matter where it gets them. They have decided that not voting is in their own self interests for whatever reason. Or, they only vote when the stakes are high for themselves.

I guess we could make them vote at gunpoint, but that kind of defeats the purpose. It is a right; not a duty, like being drafted into the military and forced to serve. [Thankfully, the selective service system has gone away in many countries.]

In this country I have the right to own a gun, but I don't own one. I can join any religion of my choosing, but I don't belong to one. That's the thing about rights - no one can take them away from you, but you don't have to exercise those rights if they are not serving your own interests.


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