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Rock Center

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Thu, May 3, 12 at 3:15

Tonight's show was a great look into the drama going up to the killing of Bin Laden. I was never more proud of my president and all the people surrounding him, particularly Hillary Clinton. Obama is SO cool. He never told Michelle and went to Alabama to comfort the tornado victims, went to the Press club roast when the mission was underway, and never gave any indication of the tremendous pressure he was under. It was a gutsy move. Well done, Mr President and all the brave Navy seals (and dog).


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rock Center

How much of this flap about the killing of Osama can we stand? Enuf already...


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RE: Rock Center

I watched it and I agree Lily. It was a great show.

I remember seeing the people outside the White House that night. I am still feeling good that the one that was responsible is gone. I lost family on 9/11 and you cannot know how your heart can hurt when you lose family in a terror attack. It is so senseless in our society.


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RE: Rock Center

How much of this flap about the killing of Osama can we stand? Enuf already...

Give me a break! If Bush, or any Republican, had done this, imagine the glory they'd be claiming. They tried to claim the glory ("mission accomplished") before they'd accompished a darn thing and if anyone tried to point that out, they were unpatriotic.

The hypocrisy is sickening.


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RE: Rock Center

The hypocrisy IS sickening. Who can forget the staged affair with the Mission Accomplished ( it was far from accomplished) banner when land was in sight? Who can forget .. 'Dead or alive' , 'bring it on', rhetoric? SOUR grapes. After they did nothing , Bush said he wasn't concerned about Bin laden, didn't care where he was. Obama said in a campaign speech he'd hunt down Binladen and kill him and his cohorts and that would be a main mission of his administration. And he DID. Suck it up.


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RE: Rock Center

Just because Bush did it, doesn't make it right nor does it mean that Obama must repeat Bush's error.

It was just another photo op to create some photos for Obama's re-election campaign. I suspect that it cost more to send Obama to Afghanistan that it did to send Bush to the carrier.


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RE: Rock Center

I kind of agree with jhug here, if only less effort and money was spent on electioneering and more on common sense day to day stuff it would be much better.


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RE: Rock Center

Maybe it did cost more, but it was to sign an agreement to show support for Afghanistan and it's people and to mark an historic occasion. Why do we continue to mark 9/11? It's a very sad day, and yet we have the anniversary every year.

Because the GOP was always saying Obama was weak on defense and bows to their leaders, I think it was time he showed he is a strong, quiet, and powerful "decider".


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RE: Rock Center

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, May 3, 12 at 18:16

Hey, the troops seemed pretty darn happy to see Obama, well worth it. He wanted to explain to them and to the rest of us his future plans extending the progress of their hard work and sacrifice.
As for as the Bin Laden show, we taped it but I see that it repeats tonite. No doubt Hannity & Limbaughdomy will insinuate WH influence over NBC. People want to know how it went down, a truly a historic moment in time.


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RE: Rock Center

Hey, the troops seemed pretty darn happy to see Obama, well worth it.

The look of joy and happiness to see the president on their faces was worth the cost of the trip. If any of you get a chance to watch the troops reaction you should watch and you will understand why the trip was good for them.

They were hugging him and taking their picture with him they were giddy.


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RE: Rock Center

" and yet we have the anniversary every year."

Yep, I can't even buy a calendar without the date on it.

An eye for an eye and pretty soon you're all blind as bats.

"It was a gutsy move"


My Hero!!!!It doesn't take much courage to sit in the White House and give an order to some grunt on the ground to kill someone. The grunts love it, you love it and Obama gets the glory. Obama and Bush. Two of a kind.

My Hero. I just wanta hug and kiss him.

I sleep a little more comfortably at night...but then, I stay away from tall buildings in New York City. Avoid the subways when I'm there.

Praise Obama. I feel so safe and secure.

Oh, and I don't cross bridges in Ohio.

Hay


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I love the taste of blood.

blood'lust
n. 1. a desire for bloodshed.

Hay


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RE: Rock Center

How come , all of a sudden , a trip by the President to a war zone is a bad thing?


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RE: Rock Center

"How come , all of a sudden , a trip by the President to a war zone is a bad thing?"

I think it's a good thing. Let him stay there.

Put him in a grunt outfit and give him a gun. I'd be even more impressed.

"Obama and Bush. Two of a kind."

Hay


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RE: Rock Center

Hay: It DID take tremendous guts to order the take out of binLaden. It would have impacted the war and imploded Obama's presidency if it had failed. It TOOK amazing guts and stellar resolve since Bush didn't do it, and in the end some weren't even behind Obama's decision.

BTW..Refresh my mind. Who was president when 911 happened? The clueless one at home chopping wood all summer... despite repeated warnings.


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RE: Rock Center

This was a compelling documentary.

Bin Laden was a coward, hiding from justice for 10 years after
murdering over $3,000 people and destroying the lives of their families forever.

Bin Laden was planning more attacks and assassinations and needed to be taken out. The intel gained from the captured documents and data at his compound will undoubtedly save a lot of lives.

I was surprised that George W Bush whose Presidency was defined by the largest attack on our country in history, did not
see fit to make a more thorough statement and an enthusiastic proclamation.

There's a lot of sour grapes over this. I recall talking about this with GOPer friends who seemed even saddened that Obama took out Bin laden and might benefit from that politically. They were just sick over it.
Now they are trying to minimize the importance of what happened...oh yea, even a Mormon on a mission to France to evade the Draft could have made those decisions. Yes, it was just like asking for government bail-out of the Olympics, or deciding what color Caddys to buy for the wife.

I also highly recommend that Rock Center documentary to Republicans. USA! USA! USA!
C'mon, where are all these self-described 'patriots' and gun lovers? This was a real shoot me up covered with American flags and our finest men and military hardware. What's their problem? Oh yea, Obama is the C.I.C. that made the call and they hate the guy.


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C'mon Heri. You know the Righties would never watch this hour showing Obama in a good light. Now if was their guy , Bush, the praise would never end.


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RE: Rock Center

It was a riveting program.

One thing though - maybe I should watch network news more often... when did Brian Williams become such a servile self-seeker? Or am I being too harsh?


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RE: Rock Center

Well lily are we all through lighting candles, bowing and praying at obama's feet so we can get on with the thread?

"""""""""""""It TOOK amazing guts and stellar resolve since Bush didn't do it, and in the end some weren't even behind Obama's decision. "

Yes, I would think that it would take "amazing guts and stellar resolve" to have the effrontery to stand before the country and crow as if he, obama, did it all himself. No credit given to the fact that the majority of the intel used to locate bin laden was gathered through the use of methods previously criticized and called torture by obama and performed during the Bush administration. Obama was adamantly against the process used to get information but it didn't bother him one bit to take credit for the compensation produced by those proceedings.

""""""""""""It would have impacted the war and imploded Obama's presidency if it had failed."

Ah but what he expected to receive from a successful mission, another term, completely outweighed what he could expect from failure. I agree there was decision making to be done as bin laden was in Pakistan but if the mission had failed what would obama really have lost; at that point his "popularity" was on a downslid. To have him stand there before US citizens and brag about what "he" did was repulsive. The people who retreived the intel and the Seals who did the dirty work put their lives on the line enabling this mission to succeed while obama just carried on with business as usual.

"""""""""""The look of joy and happiness to see the president on their faces was worth the cost of the trip."

Oh really? You didn't honestly expect anyone in the military to boo him did you.......protocol, rules and regs. Why don't you ask the men on Seal team 6 who went in and got bin laden what they think about obama.................think the story you'd hear might be a little different from your expectations. I work with the Mother of one of the Seals who took part in the mission and according to him, obama is not a man well loved nor respected by the team.


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RE: Rock Center

No credit given to the fact that the majority of the intel used to locate bin laden was gathered through the use of methods previously criticized and called torture by obama

Can you explain to me if the info was so good why after 8 years Bush and Company did not use this good info. Did they not have the guts to use the info?

Bush had a long time to find him. Heck Bin Boy had a Special TV shows at least once a year. Mocking the US because they could not find him.

Do you think it is fair to say President Obama has not fixed the economy fast enough. Can We say Bush and Company did not find Bin Laden fast enough. They had 8 years. Why did they not find him?

Can you answer that for me. I then we can go to the why "it took guts"


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RE: Rock Center

You were on a roll until the last sentence Lady.....

For a whole bunch of reasons that statement just doesn't ring true. A mother of one of the Seals involved in the mission would not likely be revealing any information, certainly none that identified her son. Assuming she even knew in the first place which is a big assumption.

I also believe that the Seals are way too professional and of such incredible discipline that they would never speak of their Commander in Chief in a public way, positive or negative. Certainly not to a mother who seems not to be able to hold a confidence nor protect the identity of her son.


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RE: Rock Center

Do you actually believe a self serving third hand statement from a so- called mother of a Seal from Brat? This is pathetic. They are a close mouthed bunch who remain way under the radar, and I doubt their family members are jeopardizing their careers. What a crock!

Was it "repulsive when Bush had a photo op with the banner Mission accomplished flying behind him? In view of land? What do you say about that. And NO mission WAS accomplished. Sour grapes from all you Righties who spent eight long years looking for Bi Laden and had the same intel Obama had. Then Bush said he doesn't give him any more thought. Who rounded up the crowds outside the White House the day BinLaden was killed? Was that fake? Oh the hypocrisy.

BTW..My cousin was one of the Seals who took him down. How about proving he wasn't, Brat. Just sayin


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RE: Rock Center

The Seals are not happy about their Commander in Chief using them to get re-elected.

I asked DH about visits from Presidents and dignitaries when deployed. His response was that the troops enjoyed the break in the routine but didn't like all the preparation for such a visit that made more work. All their regular work that had been delayed was still waiting when the President left.

I've had the pleasure of shaking the hand of two Presidents (Ford and Bush I)and sure don't remember being giddy.


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RE: Rock Center

"I also believe that the Seals are way too professional and of such incredible discipline that they would never speak of their Commander in Chief in a public way, positive or negative. Certainly not to a mother who seems not to be able to hold a confidence nor protect the identity of her son. "

Yes they are way too professional to make a public statement nor would they be allowed to while in service. I don't remember saying anything about a public proclamation. A discussion among friends and family is not speaking of it in public. Seals like everyone else have a right to free speech and a right to express their opinions even about the president.....they just have to be careful who they say it to as long as they are enlisted. After they are out of service many former Seals write memoirs and discuss operations without giving away confidential information. Obama is the one who outed the Seals when he announced to the world that it was Seal Team Six who performed the mission. Makes you wonder if the Seals whose helicopter was destroyed might be alive today if "obama" had been able to hold a confidence.

When obama said it was Seal Team Six the Mother knew that it was her son's group but she didn't know if he was actually involved until he recently left the service. This Mother was a Seal's Mother and she knew how to conduct herself, what to say and what not to say so believe me, no confidence was broken and she would never endanger her son by broadcasting to the world that he was involved. You have no idea who she or her son is so no confidence has been broken there. As for "For a whole bunch of reasons that statement just doesn't ring true" you believe whatever you wish to for whatever reasons. I have no reason to lie and I'm not going to argue with you about it. I was there, I know what was said in the discussion and that's all that matters to me.


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RE: Rock Center

Another phony 2nd hand anecdote.

Do you actually believe a self serving third hand statement from a so- called mother of a Seal from Brat? This is pathetic. They are a close mouthed bunch who remain way under the radar, and I doubt their family members are jeopardizing their careers. What a crock!

'zactly.


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RE: Rock Center

I'm not disputing she said it....but I'm not buying it not one bit.


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RE: Rock Center

Oh, Lady Brat, now you have been accused of intentionally not telling the truth. (that's polite, isn't it?)

It's apparent when certain people have no retort to a statement and they do not want to remain silent, they attack the person that made the statement.

Boring eh?


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RE: Rock Center

""""""""""BTW..My cousin was one of the Seals who took him down. How about proving he wasn't, Brat. Just sayin"

That's great lily, you must be soooooo proud. I have no problem with your statement and I truly believe that statement just as much as I do all your other posts. You go on with you adulation and worship of obama though lily. I'm sure he really cares.

""""""""""Can you explain to me if the info was so good why after 8 years Bush and Company did not use this good info. Did they not have the guts to use the info? "

Information is gathered over a long period of time, one thing leading to another and another. If Bush had had the information during his term that obama had yes I think he would have had the guts to use the information. The information gathered during Bush's term led to what was discovered during obama's. If Bush had captured BL during his administration he would have had no more right to claim that "he captured BL" than obama did.

""""""""""Do you think it is fair to say President Obama has not fixed the economy fast enough. Can We say Bush and Company did not find Bin Laden fast enough. They had 8 years. "

Not only has obama not fixed the economy but he has put us how many more trillions of dollars in debt.........oh yes and this was after obama stating that if he couldn't fix the econmy in three years it would be a one term presidency.......RIGHT

""""""""""""Oh, Lady Brat, now you have been accused of intentionally not telling the truth. (that's polite, isn't it?) "

Yep Demi, I think that is the second time today that I've been called a liar. That's OK though, I've been called worse by much better. ;-)

Now, sorry I can't stay to play longer but headed out of town for the weekend. You children enjoy yourselves and play nice.


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RE: Rock Center

Demi......please read my words again.

I said ..."I'm not disputing she said it" which is to say that Lady Brat is telling us what she heard. In no way is that even close to her intentionally not telling the truth. It is the Mother I am questioning.

Why is it OK for you to constantly twist what others say yet are righteously indignant the other way around?


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RE: Rock Center

Since the entire posts are full of lies, the question is indeed: what on earth was the mother thinking revealing such crucial information in front of this poster? If (IF) she did, that is.


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RE: Rock Center

LADY BRAT.. You enjoy living in that bubble. Read the truth and continue to try to believe that Bush should get credit for the capture and death.

I do not believe you will. I notice it is not possible to read facts and understand them with the people in the bubble. But I will continue to try.

We do not need to get to the debt because this has been explained over, and over but until you get your talking points those facts will never get through I am sure.

But how about you try to understand Bin Laden Capture and who really should and has gotten the credit. Republican can lie but people that can read will know the truth.

GEROGE BUSH
The CIA unit composed of their special operations paramilitary forces dedicated to capturing bin Laden was shut down in late 2005. Bush had previously defended this scaling back of the effort several times, saying, "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

PRESIDENT OBAMA
On October 7, 2008, in the second presidential debate, on foreign policy, then-presidential candidate Barack Obama pledged, "We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al-Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority." Upon being elected, then President-elect Obama expressed his plans to "renew U.S. commitment to finding al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, according to his national security advisers" in an effort to ratchet up the hunt for the terrorist. President Obama rejected the Bush administration's policy on bin Laden that "conflated all terror threats from al-Qaeda to Hamas to Hezbollah," replacing it with "with a covert, laserlike focus on al-Qaeda and its spawn."


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RE: Rock Center

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, May 4, 12 at 18:25

Yeah sure Lady Brat, no doubt our special forces cringed at the thought of being the team who got Bin Laden under Obama's direction. Bet they dragged their feet and whined all the way. What a load. Sounds like you'd rather have Bin Laden still alive rather than dead.


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RE: Rock Center

Chase, I wasn't referring to you.

Lighten up.


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RE: Rock Center

Well then Demi, maybe it would be helpful if you addressed to whom you are speaking as I have gotten quite used to you giving a group spanking to all that challenge you or your pals.


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RE: Rock Center

I don't have "pals."


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Get this straight

PS, I don't give "spankings."

At least be honest, we all know what I do.

I do call people out when they (a) misrepresent me and my beliefs and words and/or (b) personally insult and denigrate me.

Both are wrong and I do believe in justice.
So that will continue as long as I see it, Chase.


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@@@@@Rock Center

Now that I think of it that's probably true...


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My Pal Chase

Cute.

I have real friends.
Many, I'm so blessed.

I hope you do too.


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RE: Rock Center

Bush was asleep at the wheel before 9/11 and read nursery rhymes while it was happening.
The CIA briefed W and Condi and they did nothing to protect against hijackings...they didn't even warn the public or airport security.

The intel that was gained from waterboarding KSM in 2003 and torturing other detainees did not net the name of OBL's courier.
If the information gained from the 2003 torture was that pivotal, which didn't Bush have a clue where OBL was for the next 5 years? Because Bush could not connect dots again?

The idea that Obama had all upside and no downside to this enormous and historical decision is ludicrous. If this mission failed, our country and our President would have been dealt a severe blow in our war against bin Laden and Al Qaida. OBL would have made a video mocking the US. He would be recruiting more terrorists to kill Americans right now and pakistan would likely not allow another incursion into their country to find him.

Romney does not have had what it takes to make that kind of decision and stick with it. Romney is on record stating that in his opinion, it was not worth the cost to pursue Bin Laden.

Never forget, Romney is the guy who wanted Detroit to go Bankrupt and has flip-flopped on every issue one can imagine. Why? Because he has been torn with indecisiveness on major issues.
That is NOT the kind of guy that needs to be in a position that requires decisive action.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bush and Condi asleep at the wheel before 9/11


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RE: Rock Center

Lady- brat.....Don't run now. You thought Republicans should get credit for the capture of Bin...

You have 2 responses....waiting, waiting, waiting...

Bush was asleep at the wheel before 9/11 and read nursery rhymes while it was happening.
The CIA briefed W and Condi and they did nothing to protect against hijackings...they didn't even warn the public or airport security.

The CIA unit composed of their special operations paramilitary forces dedicated to capturing bin Laden was shut down in late 2005. Bush had previously defended this scaling back of the effort several times, saying, "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority.

waiting, waiting, waiting....


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RE: Rock Center

But, Marquest, you have to know that IF Bush would have gotten Bin Laden the hawks would have been crowing every day since not just marking the anniversary. Remember they said Obama was weak on defense ,that he bows to leaders(which IS the custom in some countries just showing respect), so now that he's proven them wrong and Bush was proven to be a dunderhead by NOT getting Bin Laden in 2002 when we knew his location, this is the denial we have going on. Gee, what a long sentence , but you get the point.


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RE: Rock Center

I will say that Obama has been stronger on defense that I thought he would.


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RE: Rock Center

Thank you, Demi.


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RE: Rock Center

Stronger than I thought too, way stronger...and much weaker than I though he would be on the social issues.

I think he's a DINO! LOL

PS Demi: just heard Michelle Obama introducing the President at an election rally. She spoke of how her family lived in a very small apartment on the East side of Chicago, her dad was a city worker who didn't earn much. She said that her Mom and Dad scrimped and saved every penny to ensure their two kids had a chance at a better life.

She said that, even though she went to university on loans and grants, her Dad made a point of paying as much as he could every year towards her and her brothers tuition, no matter how small, because he though it was so important. They sacrificed much to make it better for their kids.

I think that is what you are talking about Demi... and that is your First Lady. I'm sure you must be very proud of her.


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RE: Rock Center

I didn't hear it, seldom turn on the television anymore, Chase.

I'm MUCH happier!

But yes, that story is EXACTLY what I am referring to, and I am proud of her family and their accomplishments.


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RE: Rock Center

Thank you Demi. That is what I think everyone should do. If you read and realize what your party is saying is not totally the truth you can make better decisions than just voting because of party or what one news station tells you to believe. Then and only then will we almost get what we expect for the country.

As much as I did not like what Santorum was saying during his campaign I voted for him as our Senator the first term. I called his office with a problem and they followed up that day and called me back and asked if the problem was solved.

What amazes me from the stuff he was saying during the campaign you would have thought he would not have helped me with this problem....... My company would not let me designate my 401K to my daughter as Beneficiary. They said if you had a spouse you had to put them down as beneficiary. His office said that was not the law. Called my company informed them they were wrong and they let me put my daughter's name on the dotted line.

Sill waiting for you Lady-Brat

Chase it has been difficult to get anything through the House since he was elected. It was their plan. I do not think it is going to work. I have Republican friends and they know what is happening.

Lily some when they realize they are wrong they run and never return to the subject.


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RE: Rock Center

I believe Lady Brat's penultimate sentence was she was going out of town for the weekend... however, I'm not inclined to go upthread to find her exact words.

Sticking my neck out, but with folks having instant recall of things that were written and who wrote them back to the inception of the forum, how did the LB's ta ta get missed?


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RE: Rock Center

I hope that Mrs. Obama and her family serve as an example for everyone. What they did was not easy for any of them.

I do think that Bush laid the groundwork for the information that was used to find bin Laden. He should be given some credit. Did you every stop to think that Bush said he wasn't interested in catching bin Laden to help him believe the US and no interest in him while we were still actively trying to find him? Stranger things have happened.

And back to the troops meeting Mr. Obama for just a minute. The troops are happy to see him. Giddy? I thing not. They recognize him as their Commander in Chief. They also know how much work they did preparing for his visit and how much work was put on hold while they were preparing which still has to be done. I guess I just be a bit jaded because I've shaken the hand of two Presidents. DH has a picture of him with one President along side Air Force 1. I don't remember being giddy, just smiling and being polite because it was appropriate and kind of cool to see a President up close.


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RE: Rock Center

Sour grapes abound.


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RE: Rock Center

Do people feel that they now know the truth about the Bin Laden killing after watching that show or doesn't it matter as long as he is dead? He is dead isn't he? Why did they drop him in the sea, I want to know.


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RE: Rock Center

No sour grapes here, just relating DH's and my experiences with meeting a President. Sorry if you took it that way.


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RE: Rock Center

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, May 6, 12 at 9:19

Ink, I'm satisfied that he's dead. As I understand it the quick sea burial was in custom, plus it doesn't give him a resting place on land which could be used for future propaganda purposes.


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RE: Rock Center

I think he's dead. all right. If he wasn't killed that night, he's been killed since. Just imagine the mess that would ensue if he showed up alive.


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RE: Rock Center

I hear what you are saying veggie but that raises more questions. Was he armed? If not why was he not arrested thereby solving the martyr shrine problem. Why was such an elaborate scheme hatched when if they wanted to kill him they could have bombed the whole compound from a distance (drone) like they have other al-Quada suspects?


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RE: Rock Center

Ink..They were supposed to try and take him as prisoner. IMO killing was the only way, but he left them no choice as he went for his gun. They took many gruesome pictures which Obama and others viewed and did not make public, and then dropped him at sea so his burial place would be a scene for his followers to glorify.


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RE: Rock Center

I think they intended to kill him and dispose of his body just as they did. The last think they wanted was a trial or a grave site. Look at all the problems trying to try the terrorists currently in custody. Could you imagine a Bin Laden trial! Talk about a rally cry for terrorists.

Mind you President Obama didn't confide in me when he made his decisions so I'm just guessing!


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RE: Rock Center

"I think they intended to kill him and dispose of his body just as they did. The last think they wanted was a trial or a grave site."

I think you are absolutely correct. No remains and no burial location means that there is no shrine for people to rally around.

Better yet, I can't think of a more fitting end than knowing that bin Laden could have been dinner for sharks and/or hagfish.


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RE: Rock Center

For all we know, it was determined that Bin Laden died of natural causes--perhaps his kidneys finally gave out.

That's a thought--our government knew he was dead and invented a raid to "kill him" and use it to help Obama get reelected.

Stranger things have happened.


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RE: Rock Center

Now that is a real stretch.....do you know how many, including those Seals, would have to be involved in such a conspiracy theory???

And don't forget, we have it on good authority that a certain member of that Seal team says his team members don't think very highly of their CIC and he told his Mom how they felt, who told a colleague at work , who reported it here. So I can't imagine they would lie for him....


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Fodder for Conspiracy Theory Movies

Good grief, Chase, I don't really think that happened.

;)

There is a possibility though.

It's more plausible than Bush blowing up buildings in New York City!


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((((Rock Center

Yes and it's "possible" that President Obama is not an American.

Sometimes I wish we had some interesting conspiracy theories here...we are so darn boring! Or perhaps it is that we are far more interested in dealing with reality.


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RE: Rock Center

With the lack of transparency and the changing explanation of events Demi's version is as good as any, especially considering the lack of information in that TV show.


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RE: Rock Center

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, May 6, 12 at 17:27

Ink, blowing up the compound was an option but then they really would not know for sure if Bin Laden was there or if he were did he get killed? Obama wanted to put these questions to rest once and for all and possibly have the bonus of collecting intell by the seals, which did happen. Good choice and Obama thought it was worth the risk. Can you imagine the conspiracy theories today if the compound was just blown up. To avoid egg on their face Pakistan might deny he was there even if he were.


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RE: Rock Center

Whatever happened to that second helicopter, the one that crashed? Wasn't there supposed to be sensitive equipment that fell into the wrong hands? I can't find any info on that.


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RE: Rock Center

It was worth losing part of one helicoptor.

Zero American lives were lost on the mission which netted the guy who masterminded the largest attack on our country in its history.

And Cairo, the Navy Seal dog on that mission even made it back!
I understand that there have been numerous requests to adopt him but I can't find any further info on that.


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RE: Crashed chopper

Oh, thanks. Just wondered--glad no lives lost, even doggie :)


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RE: Rock Center

And what some Seals had to say about the whole thing.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Rock Center

Thanks for the link! For those who don't like to open links:

Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: "The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it.

But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn't really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot.

In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn't allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe."

Mr Kyle added: "He's trying to say that Romney wouldn't have made the same call? Anyone who is patriotic to this country would have made that exact call, Democrat or Republican. Obama is taking more credit than he is due but it's going to get him some pretty good mileage."

I'll say! Marquest & Lily were positively giddy!


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RE: Rock Center

Still am giddy. Obama said the single most important thing he will take from the WH when he finally goes will be the flag carried there on the raid and signed by every member and presented to him with well wishes when they all visited him at the WH. >>One of your dissenters is a Republican legislator , Mr Zinke, so what do you expect? All I can say the braggart macho Bush would celebrate this every day of his macho life. Dead or alive and all his cowboy rhetoric.


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RE: Rock Center

I really just cannot understand this entire post.

MrsK, hay and elvis - are you actually saying that you're not happy OBL was killed? And can you actually say with a straight face that if Bush had gotten the job he promised to do done, you would not have been 'giddy'? Really?

Like I said, the hypocrisy is sickening.


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RE: Rock Center

Wait just a minute there, Jill. First, you ask: "MrsK, hay and elvis - are you actually saying that you're not happy OBL was killed?"

Then without an answer, you say: "And can you actually say with a straight face that if Bush had gotten the job he promised to do done, you would not have been 'giddy'? Really?"

Then again, without waiting for an answer, you pause (dramatically) to tell us: "Like I said, the hypocrisy is sickening."

So I will answer for myself--

#1: No, I am not "not happy that Osama was killed".

#2: No, I would not have been "giddy". Condoning killing has yet to make me "giddy".

I can't help you with your hypocrisy problem, your proneness to being sickened, or your unfortunate prose.

But that's just me.


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RE: Rock Center

Convicted on assumptions made from extrapolations, then chastised and reviled, Elvis.

It's a nasty habit around here.

Perhaps stopping one's prejudices in their tracks, biting one's tongue, and taking a Pepto Bismol would quell those bouts of nausea.


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RE: Rock Center

"A recently disclosed memorandum from then-CIA Director Leon Panetta shows that the president's celebrated derring-do in authorizing the operation included a responsibility-escape clause: "The timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven's hands. The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the President for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and if he is not there, to get out."

Which is to say, if the mission went wrong, the fault would be Adm. McRaven's, not the president's"

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Rock Center

And you know what, Mrs.? I think that's probably standard procedure. But...

"No guts no glory."

Except Obama wants the glory--just not the responsibility. He wants it both ways. This seems to work for quite a few of his personal fans (I'm looking at you, Lily). It's not exactly "presidential", is it?


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RE: Rock Center

The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President.

The above is putting any military 'loose canons' on notice that if they deviate from the agreed upon plan, those ignoring the blueprint do so at their own risk. After all, it was the military that developed the proposed action, and they will be held to what they presented.


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RE: Rock Center

No doubt Jimmy Carter used the same procedure but there must have been another clause that handed the baby back to him, the goal posts have been known to shift before.

OBL probably got his just desserts, the problem I have, other than those previously mentioned is that someone miles away decided his identity his guilt and his punishment without any due process whatsoever and as a precedent this is bad news. Obama and the idiot before him are responsible for more deaths than bin Laden and if the same criterion for an assassination was used by a small group of people with guns from Iraq who would be 'giddy' then?


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RE: Rock Center

This is really gotten laughable.

Let me see if I have this right from the conservatives --

If a military mission is successful  
If President is democrat
The President had nothing to do with it
(example: Obama getting Osama)
Else (President is a republican)
Yay! Got the bad guys! Woo hoo! USA USA USA
(example: Bush getting Saddam Hussein, even if it was for false reasons)
Else (military mission is failure)
If President is democrat
The President is to blame
(example: Stupid and weak Jimmy Carter)
Else (President is republican)
It doesn't matter; we don't care about him
(example: Bush NOT getting Osama)

OK, got it. I will put this up on my bulletin board so I can remember it.


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RE: Rock Center

I find it highly entertaining the lengths some will go to try and deny this President credit for the death of OBL .

Personally, I have great respect for Nik , no lover of this President, for thanking him for doing his job ,and doing it well, instead of parroting the party talking points.


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@@@@@Rock Center

Jil, I love it!!!!!! ......but you forgot the endif's ! LOL


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RE: Rock Center

Jill, to be fair, I am not a conservative and I don't want to speak for Ink, but I don't think he is either. I did not support the Iraq invasion. I am very happy that my country did not join the USA in Iraq.

However, I do believe that a trial for Bin Laden as well as other suspected terrorists should be the goal... NOT assassination without a trial or evidence.

Now, I believe OBL was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. But I also believe this was an execution and I would not support any government, leftwing, rightwing, doesn't matter, that starts ignoring evidence or proof or a trial and begins to make executions and assassinations the status quo.

And just for the record, I don't think this is an Obama problem. I think this problem started long ago, even before Bush 2 (although Bush 2 made ignoring proof of guilt part of the mainstream) and it does bother methat this has become accepted practice so easily.

The ideas that Ink brings up worry me because I see that happening around us.


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Not directed at ink

HG - my post was in no way directed at ink. I don't think that ink would have supported any president that did what Obama did. It's the posters who I don't believe that of that I have a problem with.

chase - ha! Was trying not to show my geeky side :-)


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RE: Rock Center

Love it Jill. You captured it beautifully.

..HG, I hate to disagree but killing Bin Laden is something I stood behind 1000%. To bring him to trial would have been a nightmare and would have involved maybe more deaths. It would have been a circus, and to keep him safe for trial would have been impossible. He bragged about the success of his 911 plan. Why did we need a trial? The punishment would have been death ,so it's all good. Besides he vowed he'd never be taken alive and was not going to be.


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Perspective

HG, I hate to disagree but killing Bin Laden is something I stood behind 1000%.

Lily, I guess it's because I'm not as emotionally involved as you guys might be.

I'm able to sit back and notice something that both left and right wingers have in common... no I'm not talking about the loss of that day. I'm talking about the ability to excuse things when the right guy is in power.

I think if Bush was in power when OBL was assassinated, some people might be thinking differently.


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RE: Rock Center

I would have stood by Bush and cheered as loudly if he killed bin Laden.


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RE: Rock Center

I would have been a bit more comfortable with him sharing the credit and expressing more relief that they were not killed during the mission. I think that is sometimes known as humility, but politicians in general aren't known for that.

Somehow I doubt there would have been much uproar over it if the mission had not succeeded. After all, there had been several missions that failed to catch him in the past, notably when he was supposed to be hiding in the caves in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We did lose some troops then. There were probably other attempts we have never heard of that fizzled for one reason or another.

The public was not told about the successful mission until it was actually successful so he was covered if it didn't work out. The video in the war room would probably have been ditched if it had failed. But again, that is politics. CYA.


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RE: Rock Center

I did not visit this weekend I was celebrating my Birthday I turned...hahahahaha I am not telling. I did not have time to spend my weekend with the arguing.

I see elvis returned I guess there was enough discourse in this topic so I should have known you would pop in to stir the pot. There was no entertainment in your life this weekend elvis?

Yes elvis I am happy he is not on the face of this earth. I lost family members in the attacks and my Aunts hearts still bleeds. Their children do not have fathers.

I see some feel he was no longer a threat so it was not important. I can understand it... you yearn to take any credit away from President Obama for having anything to do with the capture and being brought to justice. If a murder had killed your child I guess you feel he should never be brought to justice. The military did what they were suppose to do they felt threatened so they stood their ground. If they had been hurt or died that would have made you happy?

To deal with your hypocrisy you have to convenience yourself of anything to make your little hearts sing. That is okay. It is actually funny watching you dance.

Such love you have for a man that ordered an attack and killed 3,000 of our people because he thought we have so much. You prove we are not a great nation when you care more about him than you feel for your soldiers or the victims of 9/11.


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RE: Rock Center

I'm able to sit back and notice something that both left and right wingers have in common.

I am as left wing as anyone in HT, but as I expressed one year ago, I'm very uncomfortable with assassinations carried out by my government. This action sets a terrible precedent for other nations. We had a president, vice president, and cabinet secretary lie the country into a war that resulted in a horrible number of deaths of Iraqi civilians. Far more civilians were killed in Iraq than in the attacks of September 11, so should the crew that lied to bring about that war be judged as harshly as Bin Laden?


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RE: Rock Center

Marq: "I lost family members in the attacks and my Aunts hearts still bleeds. Their children do not have fathers."

I am truly sorry for your loss, Marq.

Marq: "I see some feel he was no longer a threat so it was not important. I can understand it... you yearn to take any credit away from President Obama for having anything to do with the capture and being brought to justice. If a murder had killed your child I guess you feel he should never be brought to justice."

This part is emotional blackmail, and it is not appropriate on a public forum. There is no defense for that sort of attack, and you know it.

Marq: "Such love you have for a man that ordered an attack and killed 3,000 of our people because he thought we have so much. You prove we are not a great nation when you care more about him than you feel for your soldiers or the victims of 9/11."

And that is just a load of hateful bull.


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RE: Rock Center

Far more civilians were killed in Iraq than in the attacks of September 11, so should the crew that lied to bring about that war be judged as harshly as Bin Laden?

I think you already know how I feel about that one. I am vocal about my belief that Bush and Co. are responsible for the invasion of Iraq on false pretenses, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians as a result. I believe they should be brought to justice for crimes against humanity. I believe that they are guilty of the torture of suspects, including ones they had no evidence against.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to diminish the loss of even one life on 9/11, but surely if the bombing of the WTC and loss of 3,000 civilians is punishable by execution with no trial, then bombing Iraq with the loss of many times that amount is worthy of the same thing? But no, even Bush, Cheney, etc deserve a trial... as guilty as they are.


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RE: Rock Center

I have always thought Bush /Cheney and Co. should be in prison now on war crimes charges, and I can't understand why they aren't. They are responsible for most of the deaths in the 10 years since September 11 for the crazy invasion of a country which had nothing to do with the event.

Still I'm glad Bin Laden is dead and I'm okay with drone strikes too. We just got an important bomb maker in the last few days , and we're looking for the one who almost put a bomb on the plane to America. Now that their cover is broken, who knows when the next bomb will be made. So if the opportunity arises, take him out with a drone. Better than a plane full of people.


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RE: Rock Center

elvis, if it feels like emotional blackmail that is your problem. I think of it as walk a mile in someone's shoes and not the hate in your heart looking for excuses.

I will not argue the points of my statements with you. Like I said it is personal. Since as you said, this is entertainment for you. I am not feeling generous of giving you the entertainment that you seek. Find some others that are willing to spice up your life. It will not come from me.

hamiltongardener ...I agree about Iraq. That is one war I never supported. That was personal for Bush. You do not attack your neighbor on the right when the neighbor on the left is responsible.


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