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She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Posted by tobr24u z6 RI (My Page) on
Thu, May 23, 13 at 5:27

At the IRS hearings Lois Lerner invoked her right to not incriminate herself which many are not even sure that she has a right to in the probe into the targeting charges against her. She should be fired and jailed! Surely some of you if not all of you would agree...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

I'm not sure she needs to be fired and jailed but I'd love to know what she knows but isn't saying.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

It was expected.

Here is a link that might be useful: Earlier thread on this


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

The ones who did resign who bore little responsibility for stupidity should'nt have & this one should have!


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

YES, I CAN BELIEVE IT.

Just like White House gate crashers Michaele and Tareq Salah; Former St. Louis Cardinals slugger Mark McGwire; Lobbyist Jack Abramoff; Former Enron chief Kenneth Lay and four other executives; Charles Keating Jr; Oliver North and John M. Poindexter, national security aides to President Ronald Reagan; Playwright and screenwriter Lillian Hellman; the "Hollywood 10" - branded by Joseph McCarthy as the "Fifth Amendment communists".

The Hollywood Ten in November 1947 waiting to be fingerprinted in the U.S. Marshal's office after being cited for contempt of Congress. Front row (from left): Herbert Biberman, attorneys Martin Popper and Robert W. Kenny, Albert Maltz, Lester Cole. Middle row: Dalton Trumbo, John Howard Lawson, Alvah Bessie, Samuel Ornitz. Back row: Ring Lardner Jr., Edward Dmytryk, Adrian Scott.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, May 23, 13 at 9:40

Just the thought of the GOP gives me the urge to seek out a Fifth.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

vgkg - you are on a roll lately.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

She didn't do anything wrong but took the Fifth.

ROTF.

The problem was the way she did it--I had seen a clip yesterday when she took it, but it wasn't until later when I saw the entire clip, and heard her speak for several minutes BEFORE taking the fifth, speaking about the matter while saying she wasn't speaking about it, and denying any wrongdoing, and THEN taking the fifth.

In other words, she was determined to say what she wanted, and then she wasn't going to be asked any questions she didn't want to answer.

It doesn't work that way, she is an attorney herself and knows better. Heck, I'm not an attorney and know better than that.

I hope they haul her back in and make her testify because she opened herself up to it with her self serving comments, THEN claims to take the fifth, which is not allowed.

That is just arrogance, and it stinks from the TOP of this administration DOWN.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, May 23, 13 at 13:05

For some people on this forum, everything about this administration stinks - especially the Kenyan-born communist Muslim with a forged birth certificate who stole the election by registering millions of ineligible voters, and became President.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

I don't know that guy mom. But the one who claimed this would be the most transparent administration in history hasn't shown up either. I think he's spending all his time watching tv to find out what's going on.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, May 23, 13 at 16:41

Yeah, that's it.

And here he could be back home on the ranch, cutting weeds!


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Respectfully...IMO if theres nothing to hide then why not tell the American public what happened? (she works for us) If fast and furious is no big deal why stall and redact the emails? and if Benghazi (spelling) was not a cover up why all the different stories and falsehoods?....Im of the belief if nothing was done wrong the truth will stand for it self....I guess im just simple and old fashioned. Have a great day people I do like reading your posts


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

In addition to being fired and jailed, she should lose her government pension.

No matter which side you're on politically, the IRS shouldn't target specific groups. It was wrong to target conservatives and it would be wrong to target liberal groups. The problem is that most liberals really see no problem with conservatives being targeted. But imagine if the IRS under a Republican administration had targeted progressive or liberal groups. There would be a huge outcry and calls for the President to resign. Wrong is wrong, no matter what party is in the White House.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

There would be a huge outcry and calls for the President to resign.

Like there is now. Except for it's impeachment, not resign.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

The problem is that most liberals really see no problem with conservatives being targeted

Um, no. The more that people hear what the tea party has to say, what their positions are, what they intend to do in power, the better.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 12:38

"she should be fired and jailed"

No trial eh?


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 13:09

..the IRS shouldn't target specific groups...But imagine if the IRS under a Republican administration had targeted progressive or liberal groups.

The IRS didn't target specific groups, they "targeted" groups - conservative, progressive, and liberal - applying for tax-exempt status as non-political groups. The Tea Party hardly falls into the non-political category.

Many GOP administrations have instructed the IRS and the FBI to investigate and harass progressive and liberal groups and these instructions came right from the Oval Office. How quickly, and conveniently, we forget history.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Many GOP administrations have instructed the IRS and the FBI to investigate and harass progressive and liberal groups and these instructions came right from the Oval Office. How quickly, and conveniently, we forget history.

Which GOP administrations would that be mom? Nixon tried it and failed, who else?

And if you watched any of the hearings, you would know that it is conservative and pro Israel groups that have been targeted. Ck with the dems if you don't believe me.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Which GOP administrations would that be mom? Nixon tried it and failed, who else?

Bush for one but it has been going on long before and has never been appropriately addressed by either side.

No one went to the extreme that Nixon did but GWB is guilty for using the IRS to target certain groups he didn't like or felt slighted by. He had the NAACP audited in 2004 and targeted Greenpeace in 2006, among others including a Church that was very vocal against the Iraq war and quite a few NGO’s.

In 2005 the Senate held a hearing to address the IRS problems over the years but nothing was done. Non-profits from across the spectrum have and continue to face inconsistencies in getting their 501 (c) 3 status and have for many years, long before Obama. It is about time that someone finally addresses the IRS’ decades long problems both in granting status and auditing for revenge, rather than just this since it has been going on for years.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Both 'Crossroads GPS" and "Moveon.org" are non-political 501 (c) 3. groups.

~snort~


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 17:43

Do you really think the GOP doesn't do it? How naive.

The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971. COINTELPRO tactics have been alleged to include discrediting targets through psychological warfare; smearing individuals and groups using forged documents and by planting false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; and illegal violence, including assassination. The FBI's stated motivation was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order."

FBI records show that 85% of COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed "subversive", including communist and socialist organizations; organizations and individuals associated with the civil rights movement, including Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Congress of Racial Equality and other civil rights organizations; black nationalist groups; the American Indian Movement; a broad range of organizations labeled "New Left", including Students for a Democratic Society and the Weathermen; almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War, as well as individual student demonstrators with no group affiliation; the National Lawyers Guild; organizations and individuals associated with the women's rights movement; nationalist groups such as those seeking independence for Puerto Rico, United Ireland, and Cuban exile movements including Orlando Bosch's Cuban Power and the Cuban Nationalist Movement; and additional notable Americans - even Albert Einstein, who was a member of several civil rights groups, came under FBI surveillance during the years just prior to COINTELPRO's official inauguration.[8] The remaining 15% of COINTELPRO resources were expended to marginalize and subvert white hate groups, including the Ku Klux Klan and the National States' Rights Party.

FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover issued directives governing COINTELPRO, ordering FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders. Under Hoover, the agent in charge of COINTELPRO was William C. Sullivan. Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, although himself the target of FBI surveillance, personally authorized some of these programs

Both Republican and Democratic administrations have shamefully, and illegally used the FBI and the IRS

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

I want to know who it was in the IRS that gave Harry Reid the insight about Romney not paying any taxes for 10 years.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 18:13

Reid might have heard it thru the Utah grapevine, or maybe they both use the same accountant..

I'll killed the other thread with this, maybe it'll work here..

Boehner played the jail card so she got spooked and lawyered up.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Wow mom, I must have missed all those threads full of anger regarding Bush using the IRS to audit people. I would have been every bit as outraged as you are ten years later! We have also known for years that J. Edgar Hoover was a horrible man with far too much power.

david, I think Harry Reid just lied, he is a guy with no moral backbone. But with everything that's coming to light, I imagine his words will get more scrutiny.

vgkg...I think she shot herself in the foot by testifying before she claimed her fifth amendment rights.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 18:45

Wow, mrskjun I guess you did miss all those threads.

I'm not angry, I'm not surprised, nor am I outraged, about this. It's just politics as usual, on the right and on the left.

And if you had read the reports, you'd know it was groups all across the political spectrum who were being "targeted". The hearings were being run by the GOP, so of course they focused on the right wing groups that were being harassed by the IRS. The GOP politicians don't care about any one else, especially the Democrats. The GOP barely cares about moderate Republicans, and I bet there were some of their groups involved in this mess, too. How came we are not hearing about them, only about the radical right wingnut groups?


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Wow mom, I think those from the IRS who were testifying before congress should all go to jail for perjury. They admitted that it was conservative groups that were being targeted. It has also been noted that progressive groups were fast tracked.

As applications from conservative groups sat in limbo, groups with liberal-sounding names had their applications approved in as little as nine months. With names including words like "Progress" or "Progressive," the liberal groups applied for the same tax status and were engaged in the same kinds of activities as the conservative groups

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 19:19

Wow, mrskjun, judge, jury and executioner

Moderate and liberal groups said the same thing happend to them. Who to believe....... who to believe.......goodness, it's hard to know the truth. The GOP or not-the-GOP?

This post was edited by momj47 on Sat, May 25, 13 at 19:21


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Well my goodness mom...Lois Lerners apology was just wasted breath. Did you even hear it?


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

As applications from conservative groups sat in limbo, groups with liberal-sounding names had their applications approved in as little as nine months.

I guess you missed the reports that others also faced the same scrutiny at the Tea Party groups and at least one “liberal” group was denied status and forced to pay taxes and divulge their donor list.


Report: The IRS also targeted at least three liberal groups
Some new reporting from Bloomberg
that at least three Democratic-leaning groups faced similar inquiries from the IRS:

One of those groups, Emerge America, saw its tax-exempt status denied, forcing it to disclose its donors and pay some taxes. None of the Republican groups have said their applications were rejected.

Progress Texas, another of the organizations, faced the same lines of questioning as the Tea Party groups from the same IRS office that issued letters to the Republican-friendly applicants. A third group, Clean Elections Texas, which supports public funding of campaigns, also received IRS inquiries.

Meanwhile, there’s still the disparity that Nicholas Confessore reported here. At the same time the IRS was investigating smaller groups applying for 501(c)(4) status, it gave a pass to larger organizations like Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS or Bill Burton’s Priorities USA that were allowed to receive anonymous donations ��" groups that were overtly political and heavily involved in the 2012 campaign.

Action for a Progressive Future is another organization that is claiming that they were heavily scrutinized and waited a long time to get their approval.

Bloomberg:

IRS Sent Same Letter to Democrats That Fed Tea Party Row

The Internal Revenue Service, under pressure after admitting it targeted anti-tax Tea Party groups for scrutiny in recent years, also had its eye on at least three Democratic-leaning organizations seeking nonprofit status
One of those groups, Emerge America, saw its tax-exempt status denied, forcing it to disclose its donors and pay some taxes. None of the Republican groups have said their applications were rejected.

Progress Texas, another of the organizations, faced the same lines of questioning as the Tea Party groups from the same IRS office that issued letters to the Republican-friendly applicants. A third group, Clean Elections Texas, which supports public funding of campaigns, also received IRS inquiries.

In a statement late yesterday, the tax agency said it had pooled together the politically active nonpartisan applicants -- including a “minority” that were identified because of their names. “It is also important to understand that the group of centralized cases included organizations of all political views,” the IRS said in its statement.

Outside groups -- including nonprofit social-welfare groups that don’t disclose their donors -- spent $1 billion in the 2012 elections, three times as much as they did four years earlier, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, based in Washington.

“The real problem is that phony 501(c)(4) groups are exploiting the tax laws to protect donors who don’t want to be held accountable for vicious, deceitful political ads,” said Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.

In early 2011, the IRS denied the tax-exempt status of an affiliate of the San Francisco-based Emerge America, which trains Democratic women to run for office. The agency said it was disqualified because the group’s activities were “conducted primarily for the benefit of a political party and a private group of individuals, rather than the community as a whole.”

Approvals Revoked

The decision was a surprise because four of Emerge America’s affiliates and its main headquarters already had been approved as nonprofits.

The tax agency on Oct. 21, 2011, revoked those approvals. The national organization and its state affiliates are now incorporated under Section 527 of the tax code.
“We didn’t even get the opportunity to answer questions,” said Karen Middleton, president of Emerge America. “We would have welcomed the opportunity to respond to a questionnaire.”

An Austin, Texas-based group, Progress Texas, received a letter from the IRS in February 2013 when it sought nonprofit status. The letter came from the agency’s Laguna Niguel, California, office, which sent essentially the same queries to Republican-leaning groups.

As with the Tea Party groups, the IRS sought copies of promotional materials, backgrounds of officers, meeting minutes and specifics about activities, such as get-out-the-vote drives, that the organization said it would conduct.

Due Diligence
Matt Glazer, former executive director, said the questionnaire was time-consuming though not intrusive.
“It is up to the IRS and the government to do the due diligence necessary,” Glazer said in a telephone interview yesterday. “I’m not saying it was fun but it was important.”
His group was approved.

Clean Elections Texas, a Dallas-based group that backs taxpayer funding of elections -- a position that aligns with many Democrats -- also had to answer queries.
“The IRS is finally doing its work, that was my feeling about it,” Liz Wally, the group’s executive director, said yesterday in a telephone interview. Her group was also approved for nonprofit status.

Two law firms that represent 33 Republican-leaning organizations that say they were targeted by the IRS have said none of their clients was rejected for tax-exempt status.

Long Delays
Two of the groups gave up after long delays, said Gene Kapp, a spokesman for American Center for Law and Justice. Of the 27 groups the Washington-based firm represents, 15 have been approved and the other 10 are awaiting word from the IRS, Kapp said.

Time to fix the long broken IRS and it’s guidelines. Something that should have been done years ago.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

This is just a silly argument. The fact that the IRS is targeting anyone should scare the daylights out of all of us. And I do hope people go to jail, that people lose their jobs, and that no one is left believing they have this kind of power over American citizens.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

The fact that the IRS is targeting anyone should scare the daylights out of all of us.

They darn well better be targetting applications for special treatment; any group applying as a social welfare entity, especially with an overtly political name, in order to receive tax-exempt status should be examined under a microscope.

Tax-exempt status has to be earned (and proven); it's not a right.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, May 25, 13 at 21:22

How ironic that groups, like the Tea Party, that decry any government intervention, control, supervision, taxing, spending, etc, should apply for special treatment from that same government that they profess to want out of their lives and their business.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

It should have "scared the daylights out of us" long ago, not just now.

They darn well better be targetting applications for special treatment; any group applying as a social welfare entity, especially with an overtly political name, in order to receive tax-exempt status should be examined under a microscope.

I agree. And they should be vetted again and again in order to keep their status.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

momj - where is the link showing that the order to target tea potties came from the oval office? I hadn't seen anything about it.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, May 26, 13 at 10:21

I never stated that there was an order from the Oval Office to the IRS, to target Tea Party groups applying for tax exemption. I think President Obama and this administration are too smart to do anything that stupid.

I did note, at 13:09 Saturday, that GOP administrations did target specific liberal groups, for the IRS and the FBI to investigate, and those instructions came from the Oval Office. You must have mis-read my post.


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So, they were engaging in political activities after all

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Mon, May 27, 13 at 10:21

Imagine that..........

CVFC, a conservative veterans’ group in California - its biggest expenditure that year was several thousand dollars in radio ads backing a Republican candidate for Congress.

Wetumpka Tea Party, from Alabama - sponsored training for a get-out-the-vote initiative dedicated to the “defeat of President Barack Obama”

Ohio Liberty Coalition - sent out e-mails to members about Mitt Romney campaign events and organized members to distribute Mr. Romney’s presidential campaign literature.

Representatives of these organizations have cried foul in recent weeks about their treatment by the I.R.S., saying they were among dozens of conservative groups unfairly targeted by the agency, harassed with inappropriate questionnaires and put off for months or years as the agency delayed decisions on their applications.

But a close examination of these groups and others reveals an array of election activities that tax experts and former I.R.S. officials said would provide a legitimate basis for flagging them for closer review.

“Money is not the only thing that matters,” said Donald B. Tobin, a former lawyer with the Justice Department’s tax division who is a law professor at Ohio State University. “While some of the I.R.S. questions may have been overbroad, you can look at some of these groups and understand why these questions were being asked.”

The I.R.S. is already separately reviewing roughly 300 tax-exempt groups that may have engaged in improper campaign activity in past years, according to agency planning documents. Some election lawyers said they believed a wave of lawsuits against the I.R.S. and intensifying Congressional criticism of its handling of applications were intended in part to derail those audits, giving political nonprofit organizations a freer hand during the 2014 campaign.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

One more time, the problem is how the groups were choosen for additional questioning. It how the groups were selected for additional questioning.

Please see the linked report from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inappropriate Criteria Were Used to Identify Tax-Exempt Applications for Review


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

" did note, at 13:09 Saturday, that GOP administrations did target specific liberal groups, for the IRS and the FBI to investigate, and those instructions came from the Oval Office. You must have mis-read my post."

I thought this topic is the here and now.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

demi wrote:

The problem was the way she did it--I had seen a clip yesterday when she took it, but it wasn't until later when I saw the entire clip, and heard her speak for several minutes BEFORE taking the fifth, speaking about the matter while saying she wasn't speaking about it, and denying any wrongdoing, and THEN taking the fifth.

In other words, she was determined to say what she wanted, and then she wasn't going to be asked any questions she didn't want to answer.

It doesn't work that way, she is an attorney herself and knows better. Heck, I'm not an attorney and know better than that.

I hope they haul her back in and make her testify because she opened herself up to it with her self serving comments, THEN claims to take the fifth, which is not allowed.

Unfortunately, for your statement, Ms. Lerner was not a defendant in a proceeding against her. She was testifying as a witness. A witness can testify and if something is asked of her during that interrogation, she can invoke the 5th Amendment.

I know this as an attorney (as does Ms. Lerner and her attorneys) as it has happened in cases that I have taken to trial. Also, FindLaw explains it in more detail. See the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: It depends on whether you're a witness or a defendant


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Dockside--thanks, I actually looked that up later, and there seems to be an out for her, especially since she was called to testify.

It still doesn't ring true to the spirit of taking the fifth, however--especially under those circumstances.

Testifying before Congress is a little bit different critter.

In the instances you encountered this, were they criminal cases to begin with or civil cases where someone took the fifth?

Something doesn't ring right to me when one who has information needed in a criminal (or possibly criminal) proceeding gets to say anything they want to mitigate their part in the matter without interruption, yet when they are asked questions to testify just clam up by stating they take the fifth.

I am quite sure that both sides are and have been doing research on this issue, which is interesting to me.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

It was a divorce proceeding where the wife's witness (I represented the husband) took the fifth when I asked him a question. He was rather inept in refusing to answer, so the judge asked him, "Are you taking the 5th Amendment?" and he answered "yes". The judge allowed him to do so.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Interesting--thanks for sharing.

I miss researching those issues.

Was he allowed to be asked other questions that he didn't feel he needed to take the fifth for, or did the judge just shut down all questioning?

I can't find anything more recent than four days ago about the intention of Congress to pursue more testimony from Lois Lerner.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Yes, I asked him several questions that he answered before I asked him the question where he took the 5th.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Dockside, thank you for the clarification on the difference between taking the 5th as a witness vs a defendant.

It has been largely reported by conservative news media that she had opened herself up to some further interrogation because she gave testimony before taking the 5th. FOX news was particularly vocal in that regard.

While it may be understandable that the general public may think that she erred in invoking her constitutional right , one would think the media would have an obligation to do their home work. As a result I imagine there are many out there that have the same misconception Demi had.

Again thanks for the clarification.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Dockside--do you know what the controlling authority is for Congressional witnesses is in this matter?

It seems to me that I can understand a witness testifying--let's say, in a divorce case, and some question comes up that would lead the witness to say that he had ingested drugs, or stolen money, or committed some crime--that would be inherent in his answer as a witness in a divorce case.

I can understand being a witness and testifying up the point that a responsive and truthful answer could incriminate the person.

However, in the case of Lois Lerner, she is a public servant--paid by the taxpaying citizens of this country.

This is different--she was not called to testify about some auxiliary issue and her possible criminal actions happened to be a part of that answer.

She was called to specifically answer the charges that conservative groups were unfairly targeting for scrutiny of their tax exempt status, and the delay of granting tax exempt status--supposedly to mitigate any influence in the last presidential election.

Her "testifying" as to her innocence in this matter, and other comments prior to asserting her fifth amendment right not to incriminate herself most definitely goes against the spirit of the amendment.

Although it is obvious that this issue has come before other courts, my point is that the Congressional testimony of Lois Lerner is not on all fours with other examples where a witness is allowed to testify partially, then claim a right against self incrimination when the going gets tough.

As I said, the last I could find on this matter was several days ago; however, I'm betting that this issue is not quite so black and white as some would have us believe.

It will be interesting to see if Ms. Lerner is off the hook and is not recalled before Congress.

What is incredulous to me is that this woman received bonus pay, is still being paid after her arrogant testimony and subsequent clamming up by taking the fifth, and is heading up Obamacare compliance.

Thanks, Dockside, for sharing your experience.

I don't think this is over.

I think it's just beginning.


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RE: She took the Fifth! Can you believe it?

Its real simple if you have nothing to hide you don't have plede the ....5th....if walks like a duck and flys south and quacks its a duck its a duck, the American public is smarter than that. Heck J-Leno even said so....

have a great night folks...be truthful


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