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Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by tobr24u z6 RI (My Page) on
Fri, May 24, 13 at 5:53

Approximately 70 bil over ten years will not be accepted in Texas which has the largest percentage of uninsured citizens. It seems that he will probably make another run for prez and wants all of the anti-govt votes, does this include you?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Some unions are now angry and complaining about Obamacare.

Crybabies, right?

"If the workers can get benefits that are as good through Obamacare in the exchanges, then why do you need the union?" Laszewski said. "In my mind, what the unions are fearing is that workers for the first time can get very good health benefits for a subsidized cost someplace other than the employer."

Unions backed the health care legislation because they expected it to curb inflation in health coverage, reduce the number of uninsured Americans and level the playing field for companies that were already providing quality benefits. While unions knew there were lingering issues after the law passed, they believed those could be fixed through rulemaking.

But last month, the union representing roofers issued a statement calling for "repeal or complete reform" of the health care law. Kinsey Robinson, president of the United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers, complained that labor's concerns over the health care law "have not been addressed, or in some instances, totally ignored."

Crybabies!

That's one way for the Democrats to finally get rid of unions. :)


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

What are you really trying to say?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm trying to say......the faithful are feeling betrayed. But, they were warned, so no excuses.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Seems unions are just getting around to reading the fine print...and they don't like it. Suck it up..you wanted it, you got it.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm trying to say......the faithful are feeling betrayed.

Yeah, that's what you're ALWAYS trying to say!

Unions do more for workers than help them get healthcare. Safe working conditions, decent hours, wage negotiations, tenure and more ....


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Unions do more for workers than help them get healthcare. Safe working conditions, decent hours, wage negotiations, tenure and more ....


Esh, please address the union leaders that are whining about Obamacare, not me. They don't seem to be as wise as you.

Crybabies.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

(Associated Press) Some labor unions that enthusiastically backed President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul are now frustrated and angry, fearful that it will jeopardize benefits for millions of their members.

Union leaders warn that unless the problem is fixed, there could be consequences for Democrats facing re-election next year.

“It makes an untruth out of what the president said �" that if you like your insurance, you could keep it,” said Joe Hansen, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union. “That is not going to be true for millions of workers now.”

You wanted it, deal with it, crybaby.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Boy, that really torques you off, doesn't it?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

What a strange thread. How does this relate to Perry and Texas? It doesn't because unions are not very important in Texas and account for fewer than 15% of the workers nationally and most of those in government with it's own healthcare systems. This obsession with unions is weird. Another rage de jour from the Right?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Perry just refused 1.2 million people Medicaid coverage, in the state with the highest rate of uninsured poor people in the country. Perry wants to run again with all that good old tea party support, so he has to take a firm stance against gubmint health insurance.

Never mind that he gets his own health insurance from the state gvt. Thats irrelevant.

Funny how in Syria, there is all this outrage about a ruler killing his own people. Yet in this country, the wealthiest society in history, leaders are applauded when they cut medicaid roles and people die. They even use that to run for higher office.

This post was edited by david52 on Sat, May 25, 13 at 11:23


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Meanwhile, over in Arizona.....

Arizona's Republican Gov. Jan Brewer is stepping up her pressure on the GOP-led legislature to expand Medicaid by declaring a moratorium on legislating until they give in.

Brewer vetoed five unrelated bills on Thursday, according to the Arizona Republic, and threatened to keep blocking legislation until Republicans expand Medicaid to cover thousands of Arizonans, which Obamacare permits at minimal cost to the state.

"I warned that I would not sign additional measures into law until we see resolution of the two most pressing issues facing us: adoption of a fiscal 2014 state budget and plan for Medicaid," Brewer wrote in a statement explaining her decision. "It is disappointing I must demonstrate the moratorium was not an idle threat."

Republicans in state legislatures are facing significant pressure from their right flank to reject the expansion, a move that conservative activists see as their last line of defense against Obamacare. Arizona state House Republicans who support Brewer's Medicaid expansion plan are reporting growing threats of retribution, according to the Republic. " end quote.

Arizona, that would be where they were letting medicaid recipients die because the state cut medicaid funding and refused to pay for liver transplants.

Here is a link that might be useful: good for her


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

David, here's the top comment from the linked article:

She is either hoping that one day the ACA will cover cosmetic surgery so she can have a facelift or she finally realizes it is better to cover the uninsured than to let them clog up our emergency rooms.

This is in reference to Governor Jan Brewer. This is the kind of mindset we are dealing with in this country.

-Ron-


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I still don't understand the whole concept that health care should only be made available to those who can afford it... where's the empathy in our country?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Sun, May 26, 13 at 15:55

I still don't understand the whole concept that health care should only be made available to those who can afford it... where's the empathy in our country?

*

Who do you think SHOULD pay for health care for those that can't afford it?

Why?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Rick Perry is an ass and he is wrong as sin too.

I don't like what went through as Obamacare and considered it a crappy compromise, but letting us lose out on federal dollars just to prove a point is a DB move.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Who do you think SHOULD pay for health care for those that can't afford it?

Those who cannot afford it should be subsidized by those who can. I am sure Christ would have approved.


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And just how are you sure, jerzee?

My Christ helps those who help themselves.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on
Sun, May 26, 13 at 22:54

Who do you think SHOULD pay for health care for those that can't afford it?
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Those who cannot afford it should be subsidized by those who can. I am sure Christ would have approved.

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I forget, are you an atheist or do you believe in Christ?
How are you so sure you know what Christ would approve of or not?

Seeing how many liberals have indicated they want Christ out of the government, it's curious you even bring Him up.

Most sure don't want Christ anywhere near the first amendment and pornography, don't want Christ in schools and sure don't want prayer, many liberals don't want Christ or Christ's intentions in a linoleum floored procedure room in an abortion clinic when those tiny babies lives are snuffed out, so why should any of us be interested in what you think Christ would approve of when it comes to whether people pay for their own health care or force someone else to pay for it?

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing Christ would not approve of a liberal using His name for political purposes, yet rejecting Him and shunning Him, even ridiculing people who believe in Him when it suits their political purposes.

In any event, that's a pretty broad statement, "Those who cannot afford it should be subsidized by those who can."

I don't agree with that, particularly when I'm the one doing the subsidizing.

I'd say there are some I should subsidizing and some I shouldn't.

I don't think I should pay for health care for people who smoke cigarettes, smoke dope, are obese, don't work, don't make good personal decisions, have children they can't provide for, and don't contribute to the common good.

Maybe some of those characteristics under some circumstances, but certainly not people that exhibit most or all of those.

Why scrimp, save, make good personal and health decisions, sacrifice and save for your older years and see it taken and given to these people, leaving one dependent on OTHER taxpayers, and subject to receiving less care than one would if one were allowed to care for themselves?

Welcome to Obamacare.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

horse-puckey


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Why scrimp, save, make good personal and health decisions, sacrifice and save for your older years and see it taken and given to these people

From an article on the Vatican and Pope Francis:

Da qui l’appello ai governanti e agli esperti di finanza affinché prendano in considerazione «le parole di san Giovanni Crisostomo: “Non condividere con i poveri i propri beni è derubarli e togliere loro la vita. Non sono i nostri beni che noi possediamo, ma i loro”».

Some of the comments made a few days ago by Pope Francis regarding financial reform and the 'cult of money':

The Pope appealed to government officials and financiers to consider the words of Saint John Chrysostom: "Not sharing our goods with the poor is to rob them and take away their life. It's not our goods that we possess, but their's."


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Tis a really sick, sick, sick attitude you have there demifloyd.

Your idea is to play "judge, jury and executioner" all rolled into one, just because you deem some people not worthy enough for health insurance, medical care, because of what you decide makes them not worthy.

Talk about being judgmental, about being high and mighty better than other people, worthy of health care because you just turned out to be luckier than others and those you deem not worthy of health care, well you are more than happy to "kick them to the curb, leave them in the gutter, let them die for lack of health care, for lack of health insurance" and from what you state, it appears to be fine with you; you don't believe you should have to pay for those that you deem not worthy, not deserving of health care.

You are so fortunate to have so much money, from good judgment that you have, good investments, and who knows what else or why you have so much money.

Far to many of us, well we did exactly the same thing as you, then one thing lead to another, one catastrophic illness after another, even though we took such good care of ourselves, and well, there went the money and we have no insurance.

That story is told around the country, 100's of times a day, far more so than the people that you list as not worthy of receiving any help from demifloyd to obtain insurance for the health.

All I can say is, "you call yourself a Christian" and yet you are more than willing to sit back and watch people die for lack of health care because of no health insurance because you decided they are not worthy of your help, anyone's help because of various things they have chosen or not chosen to to.

How you or anyone like you with the attitudes that you have can live with themselves is beyond my understanding and no doubt a heck of a lot of people on HT.

And it is far to typical of those that have money. They don't care about those that don't, those that need help, their fellow man.

The greed is beyond belief, the self centered attitudes of those with the money is beyond belief.

I'd rather be poor than have any attitude like that. It is just far to inhumane for me to even wrap my head around let alone think like that or want to be like that.


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demi, you make me sick at heart with your callous attitude toward people who do not live up to your "standards" of who is worthy of help. How sad.


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And just how are you sure, jerzee?

It's from that Book you all keep talking about, jmc. For example,

Matthew 25:34-36 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."


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From the very things I was taught in parochial school, Jesus would say something like, "when you help the least of humankind, you are helping me."

That's what I was taught being a true christian meant.

Jesus didn't hang around with the wealthy, or the powerful... he befriended and helped the poor, the sick, even the prostitutes.

And it angered him greatly that his father's house was used as a gathering place for the wealthy, as a casino, and as a place to trade goods. I remember all the stories taught, and none of them said anything about hoarding and not helping those who needed help.

He taught mercy, charity, compassion... and I believe the church still frowns upon those 7 deadly sins, though it doesn't appear as though they practice a whole lot of what Jesus actually preached.

If he were a real entity, and he came to earth today, he'd be more than a little shocked at how humankind treats one another. But I doubt a lot of people would even recognize him as he'd probably come back as the very things some people would despise the most...


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

In my view health care, education and personal security are basic human rights.

Many of us enjoy what we have because others, far less fortunate, work for meager wages and no benefits. The services they provide contribute greatly to our lifestyle.

The numbers of people who some describe as undeserving are a small number compared to the millions who work but are unable to afford healthcare.

Those are the people I feel need my financial support and I am more than willing to provide that even if it means someone who is judged by others as undeserving benefits.

it is also worth noting that those who are on welfare already benefit from tax payer subsidized healthcare which has zip to do with Obamacare,

As far as what Christ would say, we only need to read the bible or listen to the words of Pope Francis to know that humility and charity, even to the lowest of the low, is what he taught and practiced.


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I forget, are you an atheist or do you believe in Christ?
How are you so sure you know what Christ would approve of or not?

Now that's really rich. You are showing your true colors, demi. You don't have to be a declared Christian to have compassion for others. You say you believe in Christ, but your words are quite the opposite. What does that make you?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Thanks, Jerzee...

In fact, I could have sworn I began my post with "From the very things I was taught in parochial school..." which would be a prime indicator that I've sat on both sides of the fence, in regards to belief.

I don't know... maybe my writing isn't clear enough... is anyone else having issues understanding what I'm writing?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

My Christ helps those who help themselves.

I'm afraid you have confused Ben Franklin with Christ. Not quite the same people

Christ said, "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me."

Franklin said: "God helps those who help themselves."


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For what it's worth...

Demi, I was absolutely shocked by what you wrote. I read it without noticing it was your post and, in my shock, had to go back up to see who wrote that.

Don't worry. All that money you have tucked away will still be enough after a pittance is taken from you to help those who need health care

It's my belief that, in order to have a functioning republic like the U.S., its citizens must be educated and healthy in order to participate.

Do you also believe that each individual should provide for their own education and that money you have should not go to educate anyone but you and yours? If not, please tell me how that is different, in your point of view. And if so, did you educate your children privately or protest having to pay property taxes to educate those who are less than you?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"I forget, are you an atheist or do you believe in Christ? "

Are those the only two options?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Dockside, I did not confuse anyone. Nor did I cite a quote.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"My Christ helps those who help themselves."

.......but Jmc do you believe those are the only ones he helps?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Maybe "helping themselves" means working at a low-paying job or maybe two or three of them in an effort to support themselves. Maybe it means taking care of an elderly relative or a special needs child and not being able to work for money at all because of the need to care for others. Maybe it means learning to walk again after an accident or recovering from cancer or volunteering at a local hospital or school. This "helping themselves" stuff generally implies that anyone who needs help is just a leech on the public tit and eats bonbons all day.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Wow, seems like a lot of people ignore what I write and only read into what I do say, what they want.

Dockside, since you are rational and I don't think you have a particular interest in slamming me, please reread what I wrote.

You'll see that I think that I SHOULD subsidize some people, and I do.

The comments about me personally, don't belong on this forum and several are personal insults based on lies and self serving extrapolations.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Wow, seems like a lot of people ignore what I write and only read into what I do say, what they want.

Or perhaps since many people are not understanding you then you are not clearly stating what you mean. It seems to happen frequently. I doubt anyone "wants" to deliberately misunderstand you.

The comments about me personally, don't belong on this forum and several are personal insults based on lies and self serving extrapolations.

The comments are addressing your own statements as well as the snark you direct at other posters. You reap what you sow.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I forget, are you an atheist or do you believe in Christ?

Does that mean you think if one doesn't believe Christ is the son of God, one is an atheist?

I find this statment quite telling --
I don't agree with that, particularly when I'm the one doing the subsidizing.

How would you feel if you found yourself in a different situation and needing help? My guess is you're not able to put yourself in that position. And before you go on a rant, that is my opinion based on reading of a lot of your statements.

As usual, marshall summed it up quite nicely --
horse-puckey

This post was edited by jillinnj on Tue, May 28, 13 at 9:12


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

The thing is that none of us our personally subsidizing anyone or anything. This is a collective task and each of us is accountable for what is due from us to sustain the whole.
Frankly, I think we ought to be pouring money by the buckets full into education, infrastructure, early childhood issues such as Head Start and school meals, elder care, help for the disabled, social services of all kinds, and so on. This miserly shortchanging of the basic building blocks of social we'll-being is pretty disgusting while those at the top excuse themselves from responsibility for anyone but themselves.

This post was edited by pidge on Tue, May 28, 13 at 9:17


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Frankly, I think we ought to be pouring money by the buckets full into education, infrastructure, early childhood issues such as Head Start and school meals, elder care, help for the disabled, social services of all kinds, and so on. This miserly shortchanging of the basic building blocks of social we'll-being is pretty disgusting while those at the top excuse themselves from responsibility for anyone but themselves.

Pidge , exactly. I totally agree with you. I can't believe the number of people that profess to be Christian, but resent having to help those that are in need.

And that statement " My Christ helps those who help themselves". Speaks volumes about the person making that statement, and none of it good.

~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Well, the response is to be expected. Tis another "everyone is always picking on me, or you didn't read what I said," or whatever the latest complaint will be.

It just never changes, tis always about Demi, one way or another.

The comments about me personally, don't belong on this forum and several are personal insults based on lies and self serving extrapolations.

Sorry, the comments do belong on this forum, on this thread. They are in response to exactly what you did say in your post and your attempts, as epi put it "the snark you direct at other posters. You reap what you sow."

The poor me bit isn't going to work Demi, we have read what you posted, we understand it quite clearly and it isn't the first time you have posted the same comments, the same beliefs and gotten the exact same responses to the exact same words.

Seems quite clear that the rest of us have read exactly what you have said, understand it quite clearly and it is you that is now trying to squirm out of what you said, try to twist it to be that we don't understand what you said.

Looks like it is you that doesn't understand what your own words say, what your own words mean.

Poor Demi, just no longer works any more. you need to come up with a whole new plan now. None of us are falling for the same old line.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Expensive health care subsidizes the fat cat doctors and hospital top administrators and pharm companies.

The reform needs to be in caps for amounts they can charge. People cry and whine about doctors going through all that schooling and should forever make huge amts of money. What about CEOs of hospitals and pharms?

Reform is happening in the wrong place as near as I can tell. Hosptials and doctors take less from fat cat ins. companies. Why should the rest of us be gouged?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Is there some sort of Christ that is different from the one made famous by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

Just in case, I guess I'll have to say "My Christ" didn't make any judgments on which poor deserved help or not, just advised that they ought to be helped.

Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Doesn't seem to make a distinction as to how to choose any particular poor does it? In fact, it seems to suggest that the blessing is greater the less you care what you receive back from helping the poor ...


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"The thing is that none of us our personally subsidizing anyone or anything. This is a collective task and each of us is accountable for what is due from us to sustain the whole.
Frankly, I think we ought to be pouring money by the buckets full into education, infrastructure, early childhood issues such as Head Start and school meals, elder care, help for the disabled, social services of all kinds, and so on. This miserly shortchanging of the basic building blocks of social we'll-being is pretty disgusting while those at the top excuse themselves from responsibility for anyone but themselves."

I couldn't have said it better, Pidge.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Frankly, I think we ought to be pouring money by the buckets full into education, infrastructure, early childhood issues such as Head Start and school meals, elder care, help for the disabled, social services of all kinds, and so on. This miserly shortchanging of the basic building blocks of social we'll-being is pretty disgusting while those at the top excuse themselves from responsibility for anyone but themselves."

I couldn't have said it better, Pidge.

*

We ARE and HAVE BEEN POURING BUCKETS OF MONEY
at Headstart and social services.

Have you seen the reports of the results of Headstart?

MONEY isn't always the answer.

Regardless of money, or who contributes, the problem isn't money. The problem is an entitlement society, encouraged by Democrats who want to stay in power. The Robin Hood Society--not the "help those who need it, or help people temporary and show them how to help themselves" but the "take from those people that have more that don't deserve it and give it to those that want it" mentality that is tearing this country apart, and will fast bring about it's downfall.

The fact that some taxpayers think the government is wasting money and going about working on our social problems the wrong way in no way indicates that those taxpayers don't care about people.

We just don't happen to equate compassion with letting the government take all they want from some and waste money, all the while perpetuating the undesirable situations and subsidizing poor habits and choices by the nature of the programs.

Approximately half of the country is not responsible for contributing and has no skin in the game, yet some of those have the nerve to call those who pay in tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in taxes, "miserly?"

It's pretty obvious who is pulling the load and who isn't.

The people that are pulling the load aren't the ones quacking the loudest.

It's a tired old mantra for the non contributors of society to complain about the contributors not doing enough for them.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

And for the umpteenth time, those 'not pulling their weight' and mooching off the tax payer include 85 year old veterans from WWII.

And children.

They both should be put to work and pay their share of Federal income taxes, amirite?

And lets, once again, ignore that the working poor pay local and state income taxes, they pay sales taxes, the working poor pay taxes for Social Security and Medicare, everybody pays property taxes via rent and so on. Add all that up, and many are paying north of 20% of their income in taxes.

While people earning money from investments and capital gains don't pay sales tax on that income, even if its in the millions, don't pay social security taxes on that income, even if its in the millions, don't pay medicare taxes, even if its in the millions, don't pay property tax on it, and if they have decent tax attorneys, shelter it in the Caymans and avoid most of the federal income taxes.

NO, lets, once again, just focus on the federal income taxes that the working poor don't pay.

/collectively wringing our hankies.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Tens or hundreds of thousands? You are making it sound like those people paying that much are being impoverished by paying those taxes.

Consider the following scenario: A person has a million dollars in a brokerage account (no savings account here as I would question the intelligence of someone with that much money in an almost-zero yielding account.) That person has earned 10% on his investment, but doesn't sell more than 20% of that 10% earning. So, she has earned $100,000 in capital gains and sells $20,000. Of that $20,000 she pays taxes of $5,000. Of that $5,000, approximately 5% (which is a VERY HIGH estimate), or $250, goes to help the less fortunate. Of the $1,100,000 in investment net worth, that person pays a whopping .000227 of their investment net worth in taxes. Of course, if the total income on those investments is dividend income it would amount to a tax of 20% on the entire $200,000, or a total of $20,000 (qualified dividends). 5% of this is $1,000 or about .00099 of their investment net worth.

Wow, at that rate, someone with that kind of money would be destitute in.... never.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

But, but, but David, none of these people made good choices, didn't scrimp and save their money, didn't make healthy choices, they are just not in the same league as those with all the money.

Can't let these people move up the ladder now, can we?

Heck that would mean less money for those at the very top again. don't want to do that either.

If you don't make good choices, if you are born into the wrong family and good choices aren't made, those upper crust people, well they just want to kick you to the curb, toss you in the gutter and let you suffer from starvation, and die from lack of health care.

I've often said and posted on HT, and asked, "what kind of a government, what kind of a society, what kind of people would sit back and deny their citizens the basic needs of life, food, shelter and health care, but instead just toss them to the curb to die?"

Doesn't say much good about the country, the government, the people, does it?

The rest of the industrialized world looks at us and just shakes their head in shock and dismay that this kind of attitude exists here and isn't stopped, but rather pushed for more of the same instead of providing more to those in need.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"......I've often said and posted on HT, and asked, "what kind of a government, what kind of a society, what kind of people would sit back and deny their citizens the basic needs of life, food, shelter and health care, but instead just toss them to the curb to die?"

More often than not, it is a person(s), that claims to be a "good" Christian.

~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"It's pretty obvious who is pulling the load and who isn't.

The people that are pulling the load aren't the ones quacking the loudest.

It's a tired old mantra for the non contributors of society to complain about the contributors not doing enough for them."
-----------------
How do you know this to be true?

On what information do you base such an assertion?

How do you know who pays what taxes much less how it relates to their political views on a social safety net?

How do you know the political views of those who don't pay any taxes.

It is very interesting to me that the States with the highest percentage of welfare recipients and the lowest percent of federal tax contributions tend to consistently vote Republican while the richest States with high levels of federal tax contribution consistently vote Democratic.

How do you explain that or are these simply assumptions on your part based on personal bias and the " tired old mantra " from the right?

(notice I did NOT say prejudice)


I


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

It's pretty obvious who is pulling the load and who isn't.

The people that are pulling the load aren't the ones quacking the loudest.

Obvious to whom?

For someone that often lectures people on making assumptions, you sure seem to do it a lot.

I certainly pay my share. I quack pretty loudly about helping society and I make no distinctions on which members of society my money should go to. It's part of being a member of society, IMO.

I bet a lof people here on HT feel the same. A lot of people continually tell you this. Those people all seem to be liberals. Yet you continue to say or impy that liberals don't pay their fair share and that's why they vote democratic. Chase has given you the statistics that prove that false. But, you'll continue to say it at every opportunity. Then when called on it, claim you're being picked on. Sure does get old.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

How could "liberals" NOT pay their fair share? Does the tax form have a deduction that liberals can take but others cannot? I vote Democratic because it's the party of a really big tent and it's the party that tends to pay more attention to social justice of all kinds: women's reproductive rights, voting rights, disaster relief, and so on. I don't get any tax breaks for supporting those issues.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I just happened to check the website for our local hospital, and they have posted their rates for common procedures so that the consumer can compare with other hospitals.

At the link is an interesting column by Thomas Friedman, worth a read...

snip - "Obamacare is based on the notion that a main reason we pay so much more than any other industrial nation for health care, without better results, is because the incentive structure in our system is wrong. Doctors and hospitals are paid primarily for procedures and tests, not health outcomes. The goal of the health care law is to flip this fee-for-services system (which some insurance companies are emulating) to one where the government pays doctors and hospitals to keep Medicare patients healthy and the services they do render are reimbursed more for their value than volume.

To do this, though, doctors and hospitals need instant access to data about patients - diagnoses, medications, test results, procedures and potential gaps in care that need to be addressed. As long as this information was stuffed into manila folders in doctors’ offices and hospitals, and not turned into electronic records, it was difficult to execute these kinds of analyses. That is changing. According to the Obama administration, thanks to incentives in the recovery act there has been nearly a tripling since 2008 of electronic records installed by office-based physicians, and a quadrupling by hospitals.

The Health and Human Services Department connected me with some start-ups and doctors who’ve benefited from all this, including Dr. Jen Brull, a family medicine specialist in Plainville, Kan., who said that she was certain she had been alerting her relevant patients to have colorectal cancer screening - until she looked at the data in her new electronic health care system and discovered that only 43 percent of those who should be getting the screening had done so. She improved it to 90 percent by installing alerts in her electronic health records, and this led to the early detection of cancer in three patients - and early surgery that saved these patients’ lives and also substantial health care expense. -
snip end quote.

Article goes on to describe some of what is coming down the pipeline.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

What Demi does not seem to understand is that....

Liberals work
Liberals pay taxes
Liberals are against wasteful government spending

Liberals believe in a fair and just society AND ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS !!!!

The notion that liberals are looking for someone else, not them, to pay for the things they believe in is balderdash!


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Tue, May 28, 13 at 15:36

What Demi does not seem to understand is that....

Liberals work
Liberals pay taxes
Liberals are against wasteful government spending

Liberals believe in a fair and just society AND ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS !!!!

The notion that liberals are looking for someone else, not them, to pay for the things they believe in is balderdash!

*

What Chase does not seem to understand is black and white--that I have said numerous times of COURSE I KNOW LIBERALS PAY TAXES AND WORK.

What Chase does not seem to understand is that liberals can only get their "fair and just society" on their terms--when they put OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY where THEIR mouths are.

They aren't willing to pony up what they want to spend, themselves--they want to take away from others that don't agree with them as to how to solve society's problems and how to help the poor.

And what liberals seem to love to do is denigrate the character of anyone that doesn't agree with THEIR view of how things should be done, and if those that don't agree balk at HOW their money is spent.

If you are so willing to put your money where your mouth is, put my portion where your mouth is, I'll take the same amount and do a lot more good--and make people NON DEPENDENT on the government.

Oops--wrong country, eh?

I'll make them accountable, self-sufficient, and not entitled.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Some day, perhaps with the help of divine intervention, there will be a thread on the hawks in the U.S. who are not content to have fund death and destruction on their own, but insist that everyone contribute -- confiscation via taxes! -- to making some poor country a living Hades for the poor civilians during and after the conflict. Or leaving us with an expensive and not-entirely-solvable situation regarding nuclear waste, contamination, and illness to the troops.

But until then, it's bash the poor and helpless -- they're too weak and unorganized to fight back.

Nice try, Pope Francis. Some will never be able to hear your words.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

That is not how taxes work......

No one is looking to take YOUR money and spend it THEIR way anymore than you are looking to take THEIR tax dollars and spend it YOUR way.....or are you?

like I said balderdash!

...and the answer to my earlier questions are?????

This post was edited by chase on Tue, May 28, 13 at 16:10


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by dockside (My Page) on
Tue, May 28, 13 at 12:18

Tens or hundreds of thousands? You are making it sound like those people paying that much are being impoverished by paying those taxes.

*

Don't you get it?

The amount of money isn't the point, although it is not unimportant.

The fact that someone has managed to acquire more than others is no justification for forcefully taking it and redistributing it just because others didn't manage to acquire the same.

The point is, throwing money at society's problems--particularly since the government has done since the mid l960s and more and more--has made this an entitlement society with more people contributing nothing in the way of federal taxes.

It's not just temporary help--it's a LIFESTYLE supplemented by others, starting with being born in a hospital and the taxpayers pick up the bill, to immunizations paid for by taxpayers, to child care paid for by taxpayers, to Headstart, breakfasts, school lunches and after school snacks provided by taxpayers, health care provided by taxpayers, food paid for by taxpayers, housing paid for or supplemented by taxpayers, on into old age.

You know, the "life of Julia" that Barack Obama was bragging about.

There are people like me that think the government should have programs that take care of people that literally cannot care for themselves, and those that have to do it for them (caregivers) and that we should have programs that temporarily help people get back on their feet after a tragedy or even after a bad life decision, but with requirements of accountability and education.

The percentage of someone's money going to taxes, and what that person has left after taxes is no one's business or concern--whether someone thinks that person would never be "destitute" is not the point.

The point is how much is continually going to be required to continually support people from the cradle to the grave, and what is being done to DISCOURAGE dependence instead of ENCOURAGING dependence on taxpayers?

The billboard I posted not long ago is a perfect example.

It is one thing to advertise where one can call go or call for help if they need it--it's an entirely another thing for an advertisement to relay the message that you need to "get" taxpayers to pay for you and your family.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"The point is how much is continually going to be required to continually support people from the cradle to the grave, and what is being done to DISCOURAGE dependence instead of ENCOURAGING dependence on taxpayers? "

Now that is a perfectly valid point worthy of serious discussion.

Too bad you don't stick to that instead of accusing people of wanting YOUR money for THEIR needs. When you approach things in such an accusatory manner it does nothing but put peoples backs up!


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Too bad you don't stick to that instead of accusing people of wanting YOUR money for THEIR needs. When you approach things in such an accusatory manner it does nothing but put peoples backs up!

*

Too bad for you that you don't get to dictate what I say and how I say it.

The purpose of this forum is not to denigrate me and insult me personally, because you or anyone else "gets your back up."

I would think self control would be appropriate and allowing people to have their opinion and express their opinion without being so emotional and feeling a need to strike back, personally.

When people wish to discuss WHAT I say instead of me, then I'm happy to do so.

Otherwise, I generally can't be bothered.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

It is one thing to advertise where one can call go or call for help if they need it--it's an entirely another thing for an advertisement to relay the message that you need to "get" taxpayers to pay for you and your family.

And as many of us explained to you in that thread, that was not at all the message we got from the billboard. It was the message YOU got from the billboard because you look at everything as someone trying to take your money.

...and the answer to my earlier questions are?????

I too am interested in those answers. However, I suspect we will never get them.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

How predictable.......


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

For someone who "can't be bothered," demi, you sure spend a lot of time insisting that you are somehow being misunderstood. I always think you are crystal clear in your disdain for the poor and needy.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm not misunderstood, I'm mischaracterized.

Intentionally.

That is, unless a lot of people are obtuse.
I don't believe that.

As I've been told, I get "people's backs up."

There is always a price to pay for that--not tip toeing around liberals and courting their favor to prove how kind and understanding I am.

There is no need for me to prove anything.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Hope you-all don't mind me jumping in. Aside from jumping all over Demi, this is on-topic. Here is a link to a interview with Gov. Rick Perry of Texas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rick Perry responds to obamacare


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

demi - I checked in on the conversation side here today (something I rarely do) and saw this posted by you in the thread 'demi':

As my daughters say, "Mom you actually agree with us in principle (one is particularly liberal) you just sound so harsh and mean sometimes and we know you are not that way"

Obviously your daughters know you and we do not. But, it seems to me that your daughters and some of us here at HT think the same thing about how your posts and words come across -- "harsh and mean". So, perhaps it is the way you say things and not the way we take things. Just something to consider...


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Thanks for the link brass tacks.

It's good to hear from Rick Perry himself on this subject.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

brass tacks, thanks for your post. I think I need to stick to the subject and not get sidetracked by foolish stuff.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

The clip of Governor Perry is from July 2012.

From May 23, 2013:

The state of Texas is turning down billions of federal dollars that would have paid for health care coverage for 1.5 million poor Texans.

By refusing to participate in Medicaid expansion, which is part of the Affordable Care Act, the state will leave on the table an estimated $100 billion over the next decade.

Texas' share of the cost would have been just 7 percent of the total, but for Gov. Rick Perry and the state's Republican-dominated Legislature, even $1 in the name of "Obamacare" was a dollar too much. [...]

Texas hospitals stand to lose about $7 billion.

"I don't think we will be OK, actually, especially when you consider the state cut us about $700 million a year in Medicaid payments because of the budget shortfall," says John Hawkins, a senior vice president at the Texas Hospital Association. "Now we're dealing with sequestration, which is another 2 percent.

"If you look at the president's budget, there's some additional cuts to hospitals, so I don't think it is a sustainable business model going forward if we don't do the expansion." [...]

Tom Banning, chief executive officer of the Texas Academy of Family Physicians, lobbied hard but unsuccessfully for Medicaid expansion. He's beside himself with frustration.

"These people don't choose to get sick. When they do, they're going to access our health care system at the most inefficient and expensive point, which is the emergency room," Banning says. "And it's going to cost the taxpayers, and it's going to cost employers a lot of money to care for them. And we're going to be forgoing billions of dollars that the feds have set aside for the state to pay for and provide this care."

This is not about money -- if it were, Texas would be taking it. This is about Obamacare. It's widely believed in Austin that Perry is seriously considering another run for president -- this time without the "oops." His base is Tea Party Republicans across the country. While it might cost $100 billion for the privilege, Perry is going to be able to stand in front of them and say, "I said no to Obama when he tried to bribe my state with health care coverage for the poor."

And since it's widely believed that these would-be Medicaid recipients probably don't vote or, if they do vote, they vote for Democrats, there's no political price to pay for snubbing them


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Obviously your daughters know you and we do not. But, it seems to me that your daughters and some of us here at HT think the same thing about how your posts and words come across -- "harsh and mean". So, perhaps it is the way you say things and not the way we take things. Just something to consider...

*

May be.

Generally, people that want to think the worst of someone generally will, with or without evidence.

The point is not whether I am harsh or mean (which I am not mean, but perhaps harsh, blunt and realistic).

In consideration of some of the nastiest things I've ever read in my life being on this forum, I'm not inclined to sugarcoat my message.

The point is the posts shouldn't be about me.

The posts should be about the topics, not what people think about me or believe about me, as a person.

If someone doesn't like to hear what I say, or the way I say it, that is their problem and that shouldn't be included in posts.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Demi: "There are people like me that think the government should have programs that take care of people that literally cannot care for themselves, and those that have to do it for them (caregivers) and that we should have programs that temporarily help people get back on their feet after a tragedy or even after a bad life decision, but with requirements of accountability and education.

The percentage of someone's money going to taxes, and what that person has left after taxes is no one's business or concern--whether someone thinks that person would never be "destitute" is not the point.

The point is how much is continually going to be required to continually support people from the cradle to the grave, and what is being done to DISCOURAGE dependence instead of ENCOURAGING dependence on taxpayers?"

""There are people like me that think..."

And I am one of them. I completely agree with the above.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I regret that this thread has become about demi and whether she is perceived as harsh or not. The bottom line is that Rick Perry is a political opportunist who will happily screw over the inhabitants of his state in order to pursue his poltiical career. He had a moment of decency when he proposed that the children of immigrants whould qualify for college tuition help. And then he scrapped that to suit the far righties and turned into a typical TPer.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

The bottom line is that Rick Perry is a political opportunist who will happily screw over the inhabitants of his state in order to pursue his political career.

I wonder what advantages he receives from a future presidential candidacy. The TP approval ratings have fallen drastically since its high point shortly after its inception. There's not a deep national base to support his candidacy, and he wouldn't stand a chance against any credible Democratic opponent. He must be lining his pockets some way. iirc, there were some reports in 2012 (or 2011) of some fast-pocketing of contributions in exchange for access/state contracts while governor.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, May 28, 13 at 18:21

Rick Perry is "W" on steroids. If he ends up running it'll be on a 3rd tea party ticket after they abandon the GOP.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on
Tue, May 28, 13 at 17:52

I regret that this thread has become about demi and whether she is perceived as harsh or not.

*

Really?

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

I would say that is a ridiculous statement, considering that you bothered to change the subject yourself by going out of your way to make these nasty posts ABOUT ME:


Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on
Mon, May 27, 13 at 8:51

"demi, you make me sick at heart with your callous attitude toward people who do not live up to your "standards" of who is worthy of help. How sad."


Posted by pidge z6PA (My Page) on
Tue, May 28, 13 at 16:51

"For someone who "can't be bothered," demi, you sure spend a lot of time insisting that you are somehow being misunderstood. I always think you are crystal clear in your disdain for the poor and needy."


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

FGS, there you go...back to Demi.

People tried to turn it around only to have Demi turn it back into her. It is no coincidence that so many threads turn into this.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I respond to demi's most recent post only to say that I have rarely met such a person in my long life. Bye-bye, demi, I hope you stay well, live a long life, and have a great summer.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Just curious, I really don't know.

Was the Bible, the parts written about helping out the poor and all that, all the things said about Christ and his love of the poor, was that written by rich men or poor men?

Did the Old Testament have as much to say about doing good for the poor as the New?

Hay


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm not sure why people refuse to "get" what demi is saying. We have an atheist invoking Christ in order to demean her, that's a new one. But rather than ask her exactly what she means, out comes the pitchforks and tar and feathers.

The US spends more than 2,000.00 more per student than any other country, yet we fall far behind some. Obamas own Health and Human Services says Headstart is a failure. So, should we throw more money, or find out what is wrong?

Do you really want to subsidize healthy, able bodied people who believe that the government owes them? I don't. That was the point the demi was making, and some got it. Our tax dollars should go for programs that work. They should go to those in real need. The elderly, the infirm, children.

Instead of beating up demi for speaking the truth, why don't you beat up on your representatives for being such poor stewards of your tax dollars.

And chase, you have been particularly nasty. How much taxes do you pay in the US. If you want to contribute you can send a check to the treasury dept.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

On a political note, I find it astounding that a Governor would deliberately refuse health care expansion to so many working poor people. Does he really think that wouldn't be a major provocation to get out the vote against this?

Or so blatantly stiff the hospitals and doctors who have to make up the difference?

Or maybe they just don't understand how Medicaid works, and how anyone between 18 yrs and 65 years old who don't have children, are ineligible, no matter if they lose their job, or just can't earn enough to buy insurance?

I see that Jan Brewer in Arizona 'gets' it.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm not sure why people refuse to "get" what demi is saying. We have an atheist invoking Christ in order to demean her, that's a new one.

No one "refuses" to get what Demi is saying. Perhaps since she feels that people don't "get" her and so many don't, then she simply isn't explaining herself well. It is up to her to make herself clear not for others to pull it out of her. As for your other comment, it is simply arrogant and one doesn't have to believe in Christ to know of his teachings and what he stood for.

Instead of beating up demi for speaking the truth,

That is only Demi's "truth" as she see's it but it doesn't make it factual or correct.

How much taxes do you pay in the US. If you want to contribute you can send a check to the treasury dept.

Chase is as entitled to her informed opinion just as you are whether or not she pays taxes or lives here. You opine on many things that happen in places you don't live or pay taxes.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Well epi, if she isn't explaining herself well, how about asking for an explanation? Is this how you say, demi, exactly what do you mean?

"demi, you make me sick at heart with your callous attitude toward people who do not live up to your "standards" of who is worthy of help. How sad."


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Mrsk, this is nonsense. Why should anyone ask her to explain herself when she has stated her position over and over again on MANY threads and had numerous opportunties to clarify. If some take it as her "having a callous attitude toward people who don't live up to her standards" etc. That is their opinion based on her words and her own explanations. Demi is the only one responsible for herself and her words and the reactions they elicit. There is a reason that many on this board feel the same way.

The problem seems to be that Demi gets insulted because people aren't agreeing with her and tell her so.

Quite frankly it has grown old always talking about Demi and every thread turning into the Demi show including this one. If she doesn't like what she creates then perhaps she should change the way she explains herself, otherwise you reap what you sow. She knows how she comes across since she has been told numerous times.

I hope we are done talking about Demi or we should just start numbering the threads about her like we do about GW.

BTW, it is ironic to read your teling others how to behave when you and Demi both have tarnished halo's from all the shade you throw at others.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Tue, May 28, 13 at 21:48


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Seems real simple to me......the right to work states are prospering and tons of companies are fleeing California for Texas, I guess these companies don't know what they are doing ,or do they?.....Apple today announced that they have 30, billion off shore and wont bring it back unless the USA lowers the federal tax rate. Many fortune 500 companies would rather set up and pay Ireland 11% as opposed to paying the USA 39%...its real simple companies locate where they can make their share holders the most money (my retirement plan has those stocks as does a lot of yours, banks, oil companies ect)......just as I shop where I can save the most money, Thank the Lord for Wallmart as they allow millions of Americans to buy quality at a minimum price...

Have a great day and be kind to one another


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Mrs, can you please show me where I was particularly nasty. What I said that deserves special mention over all others?

I asked pertinent questions related to Demi's post. I acknowledged she had a valid argument and simply pointed out that accusing others of wanting to spend her money was not conducive to a positive discussion.

I did not attack her personally......as you are me.

I will not even address your sarcastic comment about me paying taxes as a condition of posting my opinion.......you clearly do not understand that this is an open, international, forum. I'm quite sure if you had the slightest idea of politics in my country you would feel free to express yourself.

This post was edited by chase on Tue, May 28, 13 at 22:09


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

hayday, I can give answering you my best shot wrt to the New Testament, but it might be controversial ... the probable truth steps on the toes of a lot of traditional views of the Gospel authors.

The first of what we know of them is that they were Greek speaking Christians, because they wrote the Gospels in Greek, and that they were literate, and capable of writing a story down with some level of refinement (being able to both read and write was not a given in the ancient world ... there's not even any evidence Jesus himself could write, though he is mentioned as being able to read). Being able to read alone made them better off than over 90% of the population of the Roman Empire.

Then, that they also made numerous errors in Israeli/Palestinian geography suggests they weren't from the Holy Land, or didn't live there when they were writing the Gospels at the very least.

Next, that they knew of each other in some cases and relied on each other or other writings (The Q Gospel) for sources, suggests that they had access to other writings ... perhaps that they were urban dwellers.

Finally, we know that they were people of relative leisure, because they had the time to write the Gospels.

So most of that points to them being comfortable to downright wealthy.

Now Paul is a little bit different. He was a Pharisee in a Greek speaking area (in present day Turkey) and could obviously read and write too. But I get a sense of him as being slightly more middle classed than the Gospel authors ... like he was well off among other Jews, but maybe not as sophisticated as the Gospel authors. And of course, we know that he devoted himself to missionary work eventually, was probably pretty poor by that point, and that his letters were a consequence of his (lowly paying) trade if you will. Whereas we don't know the trades of any of the Gospel writers from before, during or after they recorded their accounts, so don't know if their fortunes were ever reversed as Paul's was.

It's funny, I knew all of that, and still hadn't ever thought of their financials myself until you did ask! Thanks for making me dig deep there! :)

Apologies for sidelining the thread, but hey, at least it wasn't just about one other poster.

This post was edited by TxanGoddess on Wed, May 29, 13 at 0:03


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Sharon, as you can see, nothing has changed while you have been gone.

I think it is really easy to understand Demi. I see her almost exactly as she describes herself, except maybe for the "realistic".

~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by ann_t 8a (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 0:05

Sharon, as you can see, nothing has changed while you have been gone.

*

Actually, I would disagree.

Things did change.

They are back to like they were.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

If someone doesn't like to hear what I say, or the way I say it, that is their problem and that shouldn't be included in posts.

Sigh. My point was that perhaps you are not conveying the message you want to convey. I thought that maybe by pointing out your daughters seem to have the same type of "miscommunication" with you that you might entertain the idea that it is the way you say things and not how others interpret what you say. And, if people (both strangers and family) are misinterpreting what you say, perhaps make some effort to adjust how you say it so your message is better delivered and understood.

But, as I suspected that point was lost on you and nothing will ever change.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I truly do not believe my posing questions to Demi with regards to the content of her posts was nasty.

Nor do I believe saying that I agree with her statement but find the tone accusatory was nasty.

All through this thread I tried really hard to address the issues posted, ask relevant questions and point out how a different approach might be more conducive to discussion.

I was met with sarcasm and personal insults instead of responses to my questions. Then when I react I am the one accused of being nasty......

As for things having been different while I was gone, and of course the inference is I am the issue, one only needs to read the threads while I was gone to know that is not true.

Both Mrs and Demi chose to take cheap shots at me for commenting as a Canadian.The views I hold as a liberal are reflective of my positions in Canada and in society in general. I have not , nor will I , comment on the American people themselves in a negative way. However your political system and world policies are fair game especially given the impact you have on the rest of the world.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

chase dont ever feel you have to justify your posting about American issues. You are Canadian and I am Australian and we can comment on what ever we chose , just like anyone else on this board.

This post was edited by youngquinn on Wed, May 29, 13 at 8:15


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I haven't really opened up a Bible since I was very young.

But, now that I think about it, the disciples didn't seem to have much of a work ethic, did they? Didn't they basically quit their jobs to follow Jesus around the countryside? They sound more a lot like the hippies of the 60's. The sort of people you might run into in Zuccotti Park, maybe. Reasonably educated, able to read, but not the sort that you'd expect to become the CEO of anything. I remember going to Zucottii and being impressed with the "gimme" signs all over the place.

Who were the Disciples?

"These men became the pioneering leaders of the New Testament church, but they were not without faults and shortcomings. Interestingly, not one of the chosen 12 disciples was a scholar or rabbi. They had no extraordinary skills. Neither religious, nor refined, they were ordinary people, just like you and me."

Wiki has the answers

"Were Jesus' disciples wealthy?

Answer:

no, some were just plain fishermen and one was a tax collector. None of His disciples were even close to wealthy in terms of money."

They could very well have showed up at Zuccottii Park. I get the picture. I can see how many of you might find comfort in their message.

Hay


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

You may say that you're not a Christian, but you certainly could have written the book.

"Truly I say to you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Comforting words. Words we hear around here all the time.

Hay


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

But Jesus disciples didn't write the Gospel hayday ... that's inaccurate church tradition.

Peasant fishermen in a backwoods territory like Galilee spoke Aramaic, and were almost surely illiterate.

There is no way they wrote the Gospels ... you are dead wrong in assigning the message of the Gospels to "poor people" ... that was not who wrote them.

Though I can see how many of you may find comfort in trying to wrongly dismiss them as such.

This post was edited by TxanGoddess on Wed, May 29, 13 at 8:39


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Canadians, Australians, Brits, French, Mongolian, Israeli, South African, Egyptian, and on and on and on--ALL are free to comment on American politics to their hearts' content. There are no borders in terms of discussion, nor should there be. So keep speaking up, Chase and YQ; most posters here respect your perspectives.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Does it really matter so much WHO wrote the history?

If there's any truth to the story about 12 people following a man around the countryside for years, they couldn't have been very productive, in the traditional sense, members of society. Sounds like the proverbial "Dirty Hippies" to me.

Doesn't exactly sound like the Protestant Work Ethic, does it? Not hard workers, but more than willing to tell YOU how you should be be giving your money to the poor.

You do want to be good and get into heaven, don't you?

Hay


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

So keep speaking up, Chase and YQ; most posters here respect your perspectives.

Totally agree. Please do not stop due to the ridiculous snide comments of a couple of posters. IMO, they are intimidated by your extensive knowledge of our politics. I would say you know more than they do and that it's very obvious from your posts. And they have a hard time with that.

And, welcome back chase. I hope your cruise (if that's where you were?) was everything you hoped it would be.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Well, you're the one who asked, right?

It seems a little absurd to request the information and then, within a day, turn around an question whether the information is worth having or not.

But hey, it's your America.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I would have to stand behind you on that, Jill... this is a public forum open to anyone, and I feel that Chase and Youngquinn both make very excellent contributions to this forum, as they are entitled to, and are very knowledgeable about our government workings.

And I would, if questioned, have to agree with the many others that see the same pattern emerge, over and over... it makes threads difficult to read for real content... yet it continues to happen.

The subject is:

Rick Perry says no to federal funding for Texans and throws them under the bus, sacrificing their health care on the alter of GOP ideals... as I interpret it.

Let the debate or discussion recommence...


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Rick Perry says no to federal funding for Texans and throws them under the bus, sacrificing their health care on the alter of GOP ideals...

Worse than that; he sacrifices others' health care for his own personal political ambitions.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 8:03

If someone doesn't like to hear what I say, or the way I say it, that is their problem and that shouldn't be included in posts.

Sigh. My point was that perhaps you are not conveying the message you want to convey. I thought that maybe by pointing out your daughters seem to have the same type of "miscommunication" with you that you might entertain the idea that it is the way you say things and not how others interpret what you say. And, if people (both strangers and family) are misinterpreting what you say, perhaps make some effort to adjust how you say it so your message is better delivered and understood.

But, as I suspected that point was lost on you and nothing will ever change.

*

Jill--I did say "may be."

The fact of the matter is that for YEARS on this forum I have repeatedly said that I support tax money and programs that help people that cannot help themselves--FOR LIFE, and also tax money to support people that have to care for those people (like a mother caring for a child that can't walk, talk, etc.).

The fact of the matter is that for YEARS on this forum I have repeatedly said that I support tax money and programs that help people get back on their feet after a travesty or catastrophe, or bad run of luck--like losing their jobs, natural disasters, losing income unexpectedly, or teen moms with no marriage.

The fact of the matter is that for YEARS on this forum I have repeatedly said that I support tax money and programs that help these people get back on their feet, but that there should be some expectations of when they get off the program, they should get education if they need it, but that they should not be permanent unless they fit in the first group of people I described.

The fact of the matter is that for YEARS on this forum I have repeatedly said that I support tax money and programs, and that I support with my OWN CHARITY programs to help poor people, people that make bad life decisions--like getting addicted to drugs, having children they can't care for, stealing, driving drunk, make better decisions through education.

I have said that I support a local last chance program for young people (almost all minorities) that are about to go to prison, but this helps finish their education and keep them out of trouble.

I have said that I support education for young people--in the form of Junior Achievement which I taught for years and might go back to, and other programs, and I have said that I would love to reach young preteen girls about life skills, how to interview for jobs, how to dress for interviews and work, how to take care of one's self and not depend on males for their feeling of self worth and self image.

And yet--I am repeatedly chastised and insulted for not caring about people, for caring only about money, for being selfish, because I believe in personal responsibility and that frankly--not everyone deserves perpetual help in the form of tax dollars.

The fact of the matter is it is not my words that are objectionable to people--it is what OTHER POSTERS believe about me because of my words, and that is what people are accusing me of and reacting to--not what I say, but what they think I believe, and that they want to take me down a notch or two.

Chase articulated the reason for the lies about me and intentional mischaracterization quite well when she said this:

"Too bad you don't stick to that instead of accusing people of wanting YOUR money for THEIR needs. When you approach things in such an accusatory manner it does nothing but put peoples backs up!"

The problem is, a poster "getting their back up" about MY OPINION does not give them the right to personally insult me and talk about ME on this forum.

I have every right to give my opinion on topics and should have every right without the personal insults about me, my faith or my character.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Wed, May 29, 13 at 9:32


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Well, you're the one who asked, right?
It seems a little absurd to request the information and then, within a day, turn around an question whether the information is worth having or not.

But hey, it's your America. "

My little brain is just trying to figure it out and understand it. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out just what I'm asking. No big deal.

Dirty Hippies 2000 years ago. Dirty Hippies today.

I'm getting closer to understanding. In my wee little brain, anyhow.

Thanks for your help.

Hay


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

For the record, NO ONE has said that people from other countries can't have opinions on this forum, no one has suggested that, and I think no one truly believes that.

More intentional mischaracterizations.

The fact of the matter is the reference was made because it is kind of hard for liberals that are not citizens of this country to "put their money where their mouth is" as they say, because they do not pay federal income taxes in this country.

I'm betting, however, that the U.S. Department of the Treasury would gladly accept donations to enable people to put their money where their mouths are.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

That's a fair analogy, Hay... by today's standards. I hadn't really thought about it much in those terms, but you're a right, I think. One would not recognize today's ministries by those of the texts provided, would one?

But I'm off topic...

I would agree, Nancy.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Putting your money where your mouth is" is NOT specific to the US. The discussion was centered around taxes and the spending of "other peoples money" . Where did I , or for that matter you , expressly say that the discussion was strictly about the US ?

i am a liberal and express my opinions as a liberal. What I express is reflective of my values and my politics both as a Canadian and as a world citizen.

My citizenship is irrelevant as it relates to social, political, environmental, health care and religious matters....totally irrelevant.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

totally irrelevant.

*

I agree.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

The fact of the matter is the reference was made because it is kind of hard for liberals that are not citizens of this country to "put their money where their mouth is" as they say, because they do not pay federal income taxes in this country.

They don't have to "put their money where their mouth is" to have a credible opinion or join in on the discussion here just as you don't have to contribute to NYC in order to have an opinion on our politics or politicians and state it here so enough with all this passive-aggressive carp. They can't vote but they can certainly talk about what they see and give us their opinions. There are many of us that appreciate their insight.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Demi: "The fact of the matter is the reference was made because it is kind of hard for liberals that are not citizens of this country to "put their money where their mouth is" as they say, because they do not pay federal income taxes in this country."

Chase: "My citizenship is irrelevant as it relates to social, political, environmental, health care and religious matters....totally irrelevant."

Looks to me like you two are in agreement.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Good, then we agree that my citizenship is unrelated to the matter being considered.

Apology, for inferring my citizenship was germane to the topic being discussed, accepted.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

LOL, how'd it feel chase? Not so much fun when you are being poked is it? But I seriously doubt it will make you stop and consider some of your words.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'm going to make one more attempt to explain, demi, and then I'll let it drop. I think that you would find that a lot of people, including many liberals here, agree with a lot of your points. The thing I, and I think a lot of others, find so offensive is the way you speak about people. It comes off as you judging them as below you. It comes off as harsh. It comes off as mean. If you don't care, that's fine. It has nothing to do with degrading you or insulting you for giving your opinion. It has everything to do with how you state your opinion. It's pretty clear to me (if it wasn't before) that you are not interested in this type of information. You are not interested to know why people feel the way they do. So, like I said, I will let it drop. I gave it my all and it's all I can do.

It would be nice, however, if you would answer chase's very valid question about which states support democrats and republicans.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Try Google jill..answers all your questions.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 13:19

I'm going to make one more attempt to explain, demi, and then I'll let it drop. I think that you would find that a lot of people, including many liberals here, agree with a lot of your points. The thing I, and I think a lot of others, find so offensive is the way you speak about people. It comes off as you judging them as below you. It comes off as harsh. It comes off as mean. If you don't care, that's fine. It has nothing to do with degrading you or insulting you for giving your opinion. It has everything to do with how you state your opinion. It's pretty clear to me (if it wasn't before) that you are not interested in this type of information. You are not interested to know why people feel the way they do. So, like I said, I will let it drop. I gave it my all and it's all I can do.

It would be nice, however, if you would answer chase's very valid question about which states support democrats and republicans.

*

Jill I do understand what you say.

If you give me the same understanding, reread what I've typed. I am NOT mean, I do things and support things that care for people that can't help themselves and those that can but only temporarily.

The fact that others PERCEIVE that I am mean doesn't give them the right to insult me and trash me and assign nasty and uncaring motives and thoughts to me that are totally untrue.

In other words, if people don't like the way I say things, it's just too bad.

I have gone out of my way so many many times to exclude and include certain groups so that I'm not misunderstood and to convey my absolutely sincere concern for people that need help. Personal Responsibility is the tough love by which I was reared, in which I reared my children, and which I think will in the end benefit not only society, but the people that need the help. That is all I ever propose, with education and consequences of not subsidizing poor decisions for a lifetime.

*

It was nicer around here lately.

I have answered many of Chase's questions in the past and we have had dialog. Considering the more than transparent comments she made on another thread about taking the fifth, I'm not inclined to indulge her at this time.

It's just better we don't interact I feel.

I don't have the time for nonsense.

Thanks for your thoughts--I truly do understand, and it just doesn't matter if I suck up or tell it like it is, I'm going to be flamed for being a conservative.

Since there's no reason to suck up, I intend to be true to myself and tell it like it is, like everyone else does here, too.

-


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Jill: "The thing I, and I think a lot of others, find so offensive is the way you speak about people. It comes off as you judging them as below you. It comes off as harsh. It comes off as mean. If you don't care, that's fine. It has nothing to do with degrading you or insulting you for giving your opinion. It has everything to do with how you state your opinion. It's pretty clear to me (if it wasn't before) that you are not interested in this type of information. You are not interested to know why people feel the way they do. So, like I said, I will let it drop. I gave it my all and it's all I can do."

What are you, her shrink? "It has nothing to do with degrading you or insulting you"

Really? Speaking thus, so very personally, to the whole world? Really?

Snarks and barbs are a different matter altogether. That was very personal in a very public venue.

Say it's not my business or better yet, drag out some transgression of mine, in your defense, but saying that was just not right.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Huh?

Demi I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I even went back and read my comments about the 5th and and I still don't get it.....honestly I don't. Reminds me of the time you said I was making veiled jabs at you when I answered the question about what Pope Francis first sermon would be about. In that case, as in this, you think it is all about you when nothing could be further from the truth.

I posed questions in a non confrontational manner. They were valid questions based on the content of your posts.

It is entirely your right to choose not to answer and it is entirely your right not to interact with me.however if that is your choice then do it. It is somewhat disingenuous to say you don't want to answer my question becasue you don;t want to interact with me and then continue with a series of negative posts directed at me.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

It was nice when you were gone, frankly, for me, and I was surprised by that.

We someone managed to get along fairly well without you--it was much more relaxed-- so don't attribute our "miscommunications" entirely to me, although we've both misunderstood one another, and others, in the past.

I know the game, and I am not going to play word games with you.

I'm not inclined to bring out every post but you're welcome to see how you respond to some of my posts and the things you say. If I've misunderstood you, then my bad.

You've certainly done your share of misunderstanding me, and more than your share of going off on me when you did.

I don't start in on you after you give your opinion on a subject, just because you think as you do.

I don't care, I have no need or reason to judge you or your motivations.

I'm weary of it.

I'm weary of the judging of my character and the public character floggings, which have no place on this forum.

Either talk about the subject, ask me questions or disagree with me, but I'm done with taking the insults.

This post was edited by demifloyd on Wed, May 29, 13 at 14:23


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Either talk about the subject, ask me questions or disagree with me,"

That is precisely what I did....and will continue to do.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"It was nicer around here lately."
"It was nice when you were gone, frankly, for me, and I was surprised by that.

We someone managed to get along fairly well without you--it was much more relaxed-- so don't attribute our "miscommunications" entirely to me, although we've both misunderstood one another, and others, in the past."

Wow Demi, if someone posted that to you, or even implied that the forum was a better place when you were absent or quiet, you would be spouting rules and implying a threat to report them to the moderator.


~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

elvis - I have no idea what you're talking about. And, honestly, I do not care to know. My comment was to demi. She clearly did not take my post however you took it (and I don't even understand how you took it). My comment about not degrading and insulting was in direct response to something demi said. Really, I mean, try reading the entire thread and in context before you go off next time. Cheesh.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"When you approach things in such an accusatory manner it does nothing but put peoples backs up"

*

That is not exactly staying on the topic, Chase.

*

"We someone managed to get along fairly well without you--it was much more relaxed-- so don't attribute our "miscommunications" entirely to me, although we've both misunderstood one another, and others, in the past."

---------
---"Wow Demi, if someone posted that to you, or even implied that the forum was a better place when you were absent or quiet, you would be spouting rules and implying a threat to report them to the moderator"--Ann

*

Ann, you don not know me and have no business speculating about what I would or would not do. Chase and I have a history, some of it good, and much to which you are not privy.

*

Elvis, thanks.

I agree that's how it read but I was giving jillinnj the benefit of the doubt, even though the post did come across as lecturing I tried to take it to heart. Sometimes I'm glad I do that and sometimes I am sorry I do that.

This thread has just become so asinine but as long as people trash me I will call them out on it.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Chase, don't mind the revisionist nonsense. All you or anyone else has to do is read the threads from when you were gone to see nothing was any different and the contention was still there.

What an awful thing to say to anyone Demi. Not to mention it is simply dishonest.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Ann, you don not know me and have no business speculating about what I would or would not do. Chase and I have a history, some of it good, and much to which you are not privy.

I know more than enough about you based on what you have posted here on HT.

I could say the same thing to you. You have no business speculating about what I am or am not privy to.


~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Mercy...
Well I was wondering why Rick Perry's dimness could account for so much verbiage..

As per the Op-Rick Perry is plainly still living in the bubble so he hasn't heard that that sort of position is not going to endear him to the general electorate. His bubble must be made out of hard plastic. I guess he has never noticed that Barak Obama won-maybe it is Kevlar since he cant seem to see out of it.

As for the rest-if you want the benefits of living in an organized society you have to abide by that organization. Unfortunately for Demi no one made her our national leader so she doen't get to decide how all our tax revenue gets spent. I have the same problem. I get really hot over my money being spent on drones that kill people I dont even know. Still no one asks me since I have never run for public office and at this late date in my life I am unlikely to do so. You have to eat all sorts of weird food on the campaign trail and my stomach just wont take it.

There is this interesting concept in societal organization called enlightened self interest-I am sure many of you have heard of it. Presumably that is why we agree on the main to pay for the care and feeding of many of our citizens. Feral bands of starving infected people roaming the country side is going to make it hard for even Walmart to do business. A reasonably healthy, fed, housed and clothed relatively educated society is naturally more likely to be a calm organized set of people and that is a good thing.

Any illusion that you actually 'OWN' anything is just that-an Illusion. You can only 'own' something because you live in an organized society and your money is only worth something because you live in an organized world. It is enlightened self interest to perpetuate that set of parameters by keeping feral bands off the streets. I suggest reading Barbara Tuchman on the 14th century-a nice example of what happens when governments fail.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Wow, I've been gone from thie thread for 23 hours and what do I find? It's STILL exactly what it was yesterday. There was an OP many posts ago that has vanished in the mists of personal recriminations.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I'll bring this tread back on topic: Governor Perry was rejected by GOP primary voters in 2012, and I doubt that he will do better in 2016. Uninsured Texans will be his sacrifice to the polling gods of the TP and extreme religious right.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Feral bands of starving infected people roaming the country side is going to make it hard for even Walmart to do business. A reasonably healthy, fed, housed and clothed relatively educated society is naturally more likely to be a calm organized set of people and that is a good thing."

That is sound reasoning, IMO. I am glad you said it rather than me, though ;-).

Another reason to remain armed; just in case.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Elvis-you only have to stay armed in the event Tea people take over America and cut all the funds that keep people from becoming feral-your average American apparently is more hopeful than you since the majority of Americans do not have guns or even ICBM's around the house.

Like I said-read Tuchman-those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Like I said-read Tuchman-those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

;-) Wouldn't it be nice if learning from history actually proved a safeguard against repeating the mistakes?

Fortunately a good portion of history is worth repeating. We get it right more often than we get it wrong, IMO.

As for the OP: Rick Perry may not be the most clever overgrown boy, but he is easy on the eyes, which is always a blessing. I really don't think he's going to be any sort of important player in the future.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

bwahahahaha, I saw a Tea Party protest in front of an IRS building yesterday. The average age of the group was about 75, some with walkers. But not to worry, Homeland Security was there in full gear. They could take out that unruly crowd in mere minutes.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I suggest reading Barbara Tuchman on the 14th century-a nice example of what happens when governments fail.

A Distant Mirror- I love that book.

but he is easy on the eyes, which is always a blessing.

Oh, barf.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"LOL, how'd it feel chase? Not so much fun when you are being poked is it? But I seriously doubt it will make you stop and consider some of your words." from kjun

what did this inflammatory statement add to the conversation?

""It was nicer around here lately."
"It was nice when you were gone, frankly, for me, and I was surprised by that.

We someone managed to get along fairly well without you--it was much more relaxed-- so don't attribute our "miscommunications" entirely to me, although we've both misunderstood one another, and others, in the past."

Wow Demi, if someone posted that to you, or even implied that the forum was a better place when you were absent or quiet, you would be spouting rules and implying a threat to report them to the moderator. " from ann

Yes Ann I agree with your comment.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Gotta to have one more kick at that dead horse, after everyone else has moved on!


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

you must make allowances for the difference in timezones demi....I could not respond at the time as I was asleep.
btw I note that you did not respond to the content only made a personal attack .

kjuns words added nothing to the debate and IMO I believe (did you like that?) her words had the sort of ring of malice to them that I have been bringing to the attention of posters in the "derail " thread.
now ...back to the discussion as I will not comment further


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

They probably still miss Cajun Dan demi, don't you remember them lamenting his absence?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I saw a Tea Party protest in front of an IRS building yesterday. The average age of the group was about 75,

Aren't they the ones so opposed to socialized medicine? The ones with the signs saying "Keep Government hands off my Medicare?"

This post was edited by david52 on Wed, May 29, 13 at 20:02


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

The downfall of this country david...fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam....and now the libs just want them to go away.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

What a ridiculous statement!


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

No, those people you refer to go with the Veterans Administration, which is even more socialized than Medicare, what with government doctors, hospitals, nurses, and so on.

They're less expensive because they negotiate with drug companies, unlike Medicare.

But they have more sense than to carry around signs that say "Get Government out of my Veterans Administration Health Care"


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Personal attacks and pointing out facts are two different things, youngquinn.

Of course you know that.

Cajun Dan who is that?

Is that that wax dano person?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"Personal attacks and pointing out facts are two different things, "

....and which is which depends on who is saying it

This post was edited by chase on Wed, May 29, 13 at 21:35


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

""Personal attacks and pointing out facts are two different things, "
....and which is which depends on who is saying it"

Ain't that the truth. There's a lot to be said for delivery, too.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Actually, the difference is in content.

Someone may take offense to a fact.

To personally insult one's character, intelligence, to accuse someone of lack of empathy of being selfish because of their political opinions, and to ridicule one's faith are personal insults.

Pointing out facts that may be uncomfortable for someone and for which someone could feel offended, or embarrassed, is a different thing.

Actually, they are quite distinct, but often confused when emotions and agendas rule.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Too funny. That has to be the most self serving description of two different behaviors I've seen from you.

Personal insults VS Pointing out the Facts.

"...........It was nice when you were gone.........."
This was an insult and not fact. Many would not agree with you.

If anyone takes offense when you insult them, you are just pointing out the facts.

But when someone does the same thing to you, it is a personal attack.

~Ann


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I surely do get tired of that old 'facts' argument as opposed to personal opinions (which is what most of us are offering) especially since some of the 'facts' are posted by the most egregious purveyors of personal opinion.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Posted by ann_t 8a (My Page) on
Wed, May 29, 13 at 23:02

"...........It was nice when you were gone.........."
This was an insult and not fact. Many would not agree with you.

*
What part of "it was nice when you were gone, frankly, for ME, and I was surprised by that" don't you understand, Ann?

It's quite OBVIOUS I DIDN'T SPEAK FOR YOU, FOR MANY OR FOR ANYONE ELSE.

It is a FACT. It is not a insult to say that it was nice not to have discord in my life.

If you want to argue a point, it would be nice if you found one.

Bothering to post to chastise me by saying I don't speak for many when it's quite obvious I went out of my WAY TO SPEAK ONLY FOR MYSELF was a waste of my reading time.

If you want to attempt to throw more gasoline have at it, there's nothing good that will come of you interfering.

Chase and I can and have learned to get through our miscommunications. I imagine we might can do it again if we both want to at the same time.

You are not helping matters, and in fact are contributing to discord with your posts about this.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

This is an example of a thread that has been derailed out of existence. Hope you are both pleased.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Exactly, Pidge...

I have to concur with Ann's comments, as well... it's one of the reasons I have installed an "ignore" button, and scroll on by certain posts. I have come to find the whole repeated bit tedious.

Can we get back to the subject? Or is it over in favor of... whatever that all was?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I also concur with Ann--but it would be good if we all ignored the hand waving frantically saying, "everyone is picking on me!"


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

"but it would be good if we all ignored the hand waving frantically saying, "everyone is picking on me!"

Then what are you doing? Put your money where your mouth is.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

Then what are you doing? We are trying to get to 150. What are you doing? A little bit of bzzzzz, maybe?


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

I stand with david52 and the thousands of people like him. We need affordable, dependable health insurance. People deserve it and they deserve our help in ensuring that it can be available to them. Not for free. But at reasonable costs.


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RE: Rick Perry stands firm on no Obamacare!

150 - Rick Perry & too many other politicians put their political asperations ahead of those they purport to represent. Very sad that they continue to be elected. Until voters say enough, they won't stop. There last word on this thread & on topic.


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