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The life of Julia

Posted by nikoleta (My Page) on
Fri, May 4, 12 at 11:05

What a life Obama and the Democrats have in store for females! Right off the bat, we learn that as a toddler, "Julia" gets to be in Head Start!!!

Just wait until Americans process this stunning admission:

Democrats and Obama envision that a typical American female, Julia, will be born into POVERTY, but under Democrats, life will be good because she will qualify for for a government program for POOR PEOPLE!

ROTFLMAO!!!
FTA: "As a toddler, she's in a head-start program. Skip ahead to 17, and she's enrolled at a Race to the Top high school. Her 20s are very active: She gets surgery and free birth control through ObamaCare regulations, files a lawsuit under the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, and pays off her student loans at a low interest rate. We get updates at age 31, 37 and 42--and then the narrative skips ahead 23 years when she enrolls in Medicare. Two years later, she's on Social Security, at which point she can die at any time.

In a column amusingly titled "Who the Hell Is 'Julia' and Why Am I Paying for Her Whole Life?" David Harsanyi raises an obvious objection to the story: "What we are left with is a celebration of . . . how a woman can live her entire life by leaning on government intervention, dependency and other people's money rather than her own initiative or hard work. It is, I'd say, implicitly un-American, in the sense that it celebrates a mindset we have--outwardly, at least--shunned."

This may explain why, in the campaign's telling, nothing happens to Julia between 42 and 65. That period includes the typical peak earning years--the time at which, assuming Julia is gainfully employed, she will be paying the biggest price for "Obama's" generosity."

Here is a link that might be useful: Julia's life under Obama


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: The life of Julia

You need help.


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RE: The life of Julia

There you go.

The ruin of this country because Democrats think Julia isn't smart enough or capable to care for herself throughout her life.

And, they want her vote.


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RE: The life of Julia

I'll pass on this one Nik


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RE: The life of Julia

Not surprisingly I guess, I read the original and come away with a different take on Julia. If you read the web site you will see that indeed Julia is helped through her early years to get the education she needs to follow her chosen career and eventually starts her own business that she has until retirement. Along the way she has a child because SHE chooses to, unfortunately in emphasizing that it was her choice it is easy to assume that she is not married. Read the original not the translation.


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RE: The life of Julia

Read the original not the translation.

Wiser words have rarely been posted on this forum.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Read the original not the translation."

Please do! The link is right there in the OP. You owe it to yourselves to check it out.

Somebody went to a lot of work! Democrat strategists carefully put together just the right mix of simple sentences, simplified concepts, and cartoonish pictures to attract the kind of women who can keep Democrats in power.

I was surprised and a bit saddened to see the Obama campaign "reach out" to grown up women as though they were children, though.

But I am sure "The Life of Julia" has been well thought out, and is intended to reach Democrat women where they are. I look forward to seeing how well it works.


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RE: The life of Julia

David Harsanyi is a 3rd rate Limbaugh-wannabe columnist for the Denver Post, whose work vary between blather and dreck. Always good for a chuckle.


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RE: The life of Julia

It doesn't matter who David Harsanyi is.

People should not live their lives dependent on other taxpayers.


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RE: The life of Julia

People should not live their lives dependent on other taxpayers.

But we do!

Taxpayers pay for police, fire departments, roads and highways, schools and universities, postal service, weather forecasting, cleaning up toxic spills, disaster relief, air traffic controllers, food inspection, developing vaccinations, and much more.


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RE: The life of Julia

People should not live their lives dependent on other taxpayers.

Julia The Imaginary gets a leg up with education and health care she learns well and starts her own business and for the next 20 plus years she pays back into a system designed precisely for this purpose. Does this make her dependent on other taxpayers?


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RE: The life of Julia

You are absolutely right in that regard, Nancy.

I should have qualified.

It makes sense to pool our resources when we all need to utilize certain infrastructure and services rather than construct, fabricate and pay the full amount individually.

It would be idiotic and of course impossible for my neighbors and me to each build a separate road into town and a separate library and construct a separate water system.

I am referring to caring for one's self, feeding one's self, housing one's self, educating one's self and the family one creates (with the exception of those mentally and/or physically disabled, and those that care for them).

These are basic human RESPONSIBILITIES that we all have.
To the extent that some need help from time to time, we should help.

Just not a lifetime, unless one is physically and/or mentally disabled, and those caring for them.


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RE: The life of Julia

I am with Demi-that 3 year old ought to get off her lazy butt and get a job if she wants the advantages of pre-school when her parents cant afford it...otherwise I am not seeing any thing that was an out right gift-enhansement of schools is for the general school population and not personal to Julia. The Health insurance in college was paid for by her parents, She got a loan and paid it all back to go to college and then became a successful tax paying citizen who paid for her own insurance and then went on to retire and collect benefits she had paid for. Without the little lift as a child on the other hand maybe she would have become a semi-literate crack-ho on welfare with 5 children by the age of 22? that would be a positive addition to American society.


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The academic life

educating one's self

Well, there's the University of California with various campuses throughout the state, the California State University system, and community colleges throughout the state that the taxpayers fund - not to mention local K-12 education.


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RE: The life of Julia

Yep, from cradle to grave, your government will take care of your every need. But..at 67 you have to kick the bucket, cause then you are on your own!!


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RE: The life of Julia

Can I reitterate that I dont see "the government" having 'taken care of Julia' except in giving her the advantage of pre school? If Julia shouldn't low interest loans for school and business start-up then why do we subsidize Oil companines, Agribusiness, Pharmaceutical companies, and give all sorts of tax breaks to businesses not to mention the boost the feds give business abroad because what is most of our foreign policy about if not business?


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lol re: the life of julia

Did you also notice that Obama is president for all of her 67 years? lol


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RE: The life of Julia

I can't say I noticed that Mrs, there is this hypothetical person and Obama is the president for the duration of the hypothesis. Indeed there is much to laugh at.


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RE: The life of Julia

I am with Demi-that 3 year old ought to get off her lazy butt and get a job if she wants the advantages of pre-school when her parents cant afford it.

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The parents ought to get off their lazy behinds and teach their child.

Children don't require preschool.

I don't know of anyone my age, older, and considerably younger that DID go to preschool.

They've managed to take care of themselves a lot better than their children and grandchildren, who did.

Joe Klein, Time Magazine:

"We spend more than $7 billion providing Head Start to nearly 1 million children each year. And finally there is indisputable evidence about the program�s effectiveness, provided by the Department of Health and Human Services: Head Start simply does not work."


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RE: The life of Julia

I went and looked at the original article in Time Magazine. Boy, I tell you, that Labrea sure is right - its not at all about what you'd think from reading just 2 sentences out of a lengthy article.

....This is criminal, every bit as outrageous as tax breaks for oil companies - perhaps even more outrageous, since we are talking about the lives of children. Happily, the Administration is taking steps to clean up the mess and channel money to the local programs that work most effectively, but a more complete overhaul will undoubtedly be needed. There are those who argue that this is a fool's errand, that the federal government simply can't run an effective local education program. They are called conservatives, and they have a point. Then there are those who say that even if Head Start isn't working so well, at least it's funneling money to poor neighborhoods that need it. They are called liberals, and they have a point too.

Both are wrong: in these straitened times, we need world-class education programs, from infancy on up. But we can no longer afford to be sloppy about dispensing cash - whether it's subsidies for oil companies or Head Start - to programs that do not produce a return.

I'm sure glad that the Admin is working on this.

Here is a link that might be useful: from july, 2011


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RE: The life of Julia

David, I don't approve of subsidies for oil companies or anyone, including financial entities.

I think GM should have been on their own and filed bankruptcy or gone under. Taxpayers should not have to pay the price for their poor business decisions.

The federal government has it's tentacles in places it has no business.


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RE: The life of Julia

David, I was going to post the article so people could read what was written in context, not Demi's distortion but you beat me to it. Thanks.

Joe Klein also said:

Happily, the Administration is taking steps to clean up the mess and channel money to the local programs that work most effectively, but a more complete overhaul will undoubtedly be needed. There are those who argue that this is a fool's errand, that the federal government simply can't run an effective local education program. They are called conservatives, and they have a point. Then there are those who say that even if Head Start isn't working so well, at least it's funneling money to poor neighborhoods that need it. They are called liberals, and they have a point too.

'While you were busy judging others you left your closet open and your skeletons fell out”


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Get Real Headstart is a Failure

So what?

The government is going to "overhaul" a program that has flat failed? And it's okay if it does because it funnels money into communities?

What kind of thinking is that?

The government is a failure at administrating these types of programs and it's wasteful and any progress meets with the lowest denominator for standards.

I am "judging others" by giving my opinion?

Seems like some of your are more busy judging posters like me (easy to do, just reference me or any conservative poster and throw a random insult) than racking your brain coming up with answers or a defense for failed programs like Head Start.


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RE: The life of Julia

Demi: could you approach this from a different angle just to try to understand another point of view? Have a look at the problem before criticizing a solution you don't agree with. As far as I am concerned pointing at failed attempt to solve a problem with no recognition of the problem or offering an alternative is unhelpful.


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RE: The life of Julia

Well, Ink, I'm sorry you are frustrated with me and I'm not without sympathy for that.

I just am one of those people that is scared to death over the control the federal government has over our lives, and in most instances, in my view, that involvement has not made things better, but worse (not ALL, but most).

It is just not efficient and not accountable and we don't make it accountable.

I am frustrated too because society pays for people that make selfish and indulgent decisions. People that have children they can't care for, people that indulge and become addicted to drugs and alcohol and hurt their families, people that won't work, people that don't do their jobs right, people that cheat others, people that don't make safe products or provide safe working environments, people that take kickbacks for allowing inferior products and construction.

Parents that have children and cannot provide for them and leave them pretty much to fend for themselves.

I could revamp Headstart myself, and I imagine most people here could, and make it work.

The problem is, we have the government involved with it's bureaucracy, with it's rules, and with tenure, and with political correctness. We can't make those children mind their manners, we can't teach them consequences, we can't require much of them, and then we can't teach to the potential of the brightest. We can't make their parents do their jobs and without that factor, it's pretty much a losing battle.

The answers I have you people won't like because they involve some serious personal responsibility and consequences.

That wouldn't work because we know that everyone has an excuse and everyone's a victim and therefore everyone's an exception.

An exception, not exceptionalism.

That's our country.


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RE: The life of Julia

I really appreciate this opportunity to engage you without the superficial agenda Demi. In a way I always thought there must be a point we could agree upon because I recognize your passion for freedom. If only there was a consensus on what freedom means.


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RE: The life of Julia

And it's okay if it does because it funnels money into communities?
What kind of thinking is that?

Ask Joe Klein since he wrote it. You brought Joe Klein into the equation. Others just tried to put his words in context.

I could revamp Headstart myself

Of course you could. The world according to Demi.

The op seems to think Obama is responsible for the failure of programs that are decades old which is nonsense. I pointed out that Joe Klein pointed out in the article you pointed out that the Obama admin had started to address the problems. That is improvement over not doing anything like the previous administrations.

It would depend on how the money is being diverted and where to know if it being wasted going to the communities. There are many programs - some are successes and others are failures, some publically funded, goverment funded and / or privately funded. Do you know which programs and their success/failure rates to know the money is continued to be wasted? I am just wondering if your opinion is an informed one or just your feelings that many (aka those that don't obey your rules)don't deserve anything.


That wouldn't work because we know that everyone has an excuse and everyone's a victim and therefore everyone's an exception.

Everyone? We? No.

Yes Demi, I find many of your posts/opinions extremely judgmental.


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RE: The life of Julia

Thank you, Ink.

;)

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Epi, it is unusual for me to use the term, "everyone" and I was obviously being facetious. Of course I did not mean "everyone."

My posts aren't as judgmental as most posts on this forum.

That's pretty much what hot topics is, epi.

You most likely don't like the people I make comments about, but I see no objections from you or others to judging certain segments of society--I see lots of judgment about the 1% and people that pay federal income taxes. I guess it's okay for some people to judge but not everyone.

As to Headstart, I have no recent knowledge of their operations, but was involved in a fraud case years ago--blatant misuse of funds and other violations.

Articles I've read through the years indicate that hasn't changed and has only increased, as with most federal programs. Just look at the fun GSA employees have been having with our tax dollars entrusted to them.

I don't recall when, but I'd guess within the last year I've read an article about Headstart that showed that any gains made by children were lost by the age of seven or so, and that there was no measurable advantage from having attended Headstart, and more so for black children if I recall correctly.

Of course I guess if you measure some things, the fact that some kids were at Headstart instead of at home may have in fact saved their lives, considering the home life of some children. I suppose there's no way to "measure" that.


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RE: The life of Julia

Demi, that post was something I wish you would do more of. I appreciate that you articulated your opinion well without judgment.


I agree with you that Head Start is broken and something needs to be done. Where we differ is you think it should be dismantled completely and I disagree. I think there is a need and responsibility to help people and provide them with opportunities. If some need more help then so be it.

I think they need to see what is already out there instead of reinventing the wheel and invest in success. There are some excellent programs that Head Start, or whatever it morphs into, could be modeled after and/or fund. Would you be willing to support a program that is proven relatively successful (nothing is perfect) that helps underserved children? Or do you not want to fund this at all and feel the responsibility lies entirely with the individual/family?

Of course I guess if you measure some things, the fact that some kids were at Headstart instead of at home may have in fact saved their lives, considering the home life of some children. I suppose there's no way to "measure" that.

That is a part of it indeed.


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RE: The life of Julia

Speaking of disadvantaged children, kids who don't learn to read can't read to learn. If you want to help change the world, donate to a literacy cause.

One thing a majority of low income kids have in common is a lack of books in their homes. Every kid needs at least a small library of books that belongs just to him or her. Check with your local schools or literacy organization to find out how you can help get age-appropriate books into the hands of the kids who need them the most. There is no better "head start" for a child than learning how to read.

I'm guessing every one of us here grew up in a home with books, a few favorite books of our very own, and somebody to read to us. Imagine growing up without that advantage. Hard to imagine, isn't it?!!

Check out the link below for a calendar with things parents and grandparents can do to help the children they love learn to enjoy reading.

Here is a link that might be useful: Reading is Fundamental


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RE: The life of Julia

Epi, thank you. I tend to respond in kind.

Yes, I would most definitely want my tax dollars to go to a program that was proven successful to get young people on the right track in life. As nic has pointed out, reading is the key, and it is indeed sad that so many children have no books and no one to read to them. I recall one night when I was very tired my toddler daughter asking me to read a book and I almost told her, "how about tomorrow?" Then I stopped myself and made a silent promise right then and there that I would NEVER not stop to read to my child when they asked. Never. And I never did.

I'll just say that on principle, I do not believe it is the government's place to do the parent's job prior to school, and that would be "Headstart" or preschool babysitting/learning. The need obviously came from the fact that children were not prepared to start kindergarten or first grade, and that's the parent's responsibility.

So on principle, I do not believe in these programs.
But in practice, a successful program could help children.

That is a slippery slope because there can be many successful programs and that gets us right back into the government doing the parent's jobs and individual jobs for them. You note I said "could" because in my opinion the government pretty much just wastes a lot of hard earned tax dollars and doesn't get it right often.

There are no easy answers but I'm more inclined to help innocent children that cannot make decisions for themselves get a good start in life that they can build on.

To me, the most vulnerable are early teens--that's where I have watched sweet little boys become thugs--ten to fourteen.

That is the age that angelic little girls become sexual exhibitionists with no interest in school, only boys.

If we could only reach children whose parents aren't paying attention to them at this critical age and keep them interested in academics, sports, developing their talents and not succumbing to peer pressure, we'd have so many more successful adults. I've been thinking a lot about what is wrong with the local programs we have and why this age is so vulnerable.


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RE: The life of Julia

I recall people in the all white neighborhood where i grew up in always complaining that the n-word people were on the dole and they didn't want to pay for it with their money. Nothing much has changed in all these years, save for a bit of pseudo-internationalization of the sentiment by those who want to remain politically correct,

I think GM should have been on their own and filed bankruptcy or gone under. Taxpayers should not have to pay the price for their poor business decisions.

History has now proven Romney to be wrong. Romney was too quick to apply narrow RW ideology and Bainsian economics to the problem. He failed to recognize what many including Republicans like George Bush understood,...that this was an extraordinary circumstance which required extraordinary measures for the good of the country, not just corporations.
As Bush said "Sometimes circumstances get in the way of philosophy," You know he meant "ideology."

Romney was 100% wrong when he wrote that Detroit should go bankrupt. He failed to account for the economic circumstances where we had been shedding hundreds of thousands of jobs each month. Romney was not concerned about the plight of millions who would be impacted if the industry collapsed. In his view, that would have been worth it, if only to kill the UAW.

This is the same guy who said that the answer to the housing industry problems was to speed foreclosures without having any sense about what that could do to the economy and without a shred of empathy toward the families that live in those homes.

Mitt W Romney is not the right man to be President at this time or at any time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bush would bail out auto industry again


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RE: The life of Julia

If a country were a business, the CEO could just fire the excess employees, and break apart and sell off the pieces that weren't pulling a profit.

But a country is nothing like a business, therefore, a businessman is not the best choice for "CEO".

Yeah, yeah... I know... responding just adds to the original glee looked for, and continues the ridiculous. Was this yesterday's outrage, or today's? I'm getting them confused.


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RE: The life of Julia

If a country were a business, the CEO could just fire the excess employees, and break apart and sell off the pieces that weren't pulling a profit.

Perhaps they will sell Texas off to Mexico.

Are there any states Canada could pick up at bargain basement prices?


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RE: The life of Julia

Well given we probably own most of Florida , perhaps we could get a deal!


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RE: The life of Julia

I just read the saga of Julia. There is what I believe is misleading information about education credits and Pell grants when Julia is 18 years old. The site says:

As she prepares for her first semester of college, Julia and her family qualify for President Obama's American Opportunity Tax Credit�worth up to $10,000 over four years. Julia is also one of millions of students who receive a Pell Grant to help put a college education within reach.

You cannot use the tuition paid with a Pell grant to qualify for any of the education credits including the American Opportunity Credit. First the amount of qualified tuition is reduced by the Pell grant funds and other scholarships and grants. The remaining tuition, if any, then can be used to claim the education credit or tuition and fees deduction. You cannot claim the credit for tuition that is paid by a Pell grant. I fully expect, based my experiences during 16 plus years of preparing taxes, that I will have several taxpayer who believe they can and will cite Julia at their source. That "slide" needs a footnote.

I also find the slide about student loans to be misleading. Under the income based repayment plans, the required payment is based on income only. At the end of the 20 or 30 year period, anything not repaid is forgiven, if memory serves me correctly.

On the final slide, it leads the uninformed reader to believe that Social Security will "help her retire comfortably". It fails to mention that in order to retire comfortably one must have saved enough for retirement. If one didn't save adequately, one will run out of savings contrary to what the slide leads the reader to believe. Social Security was never meant to provide 100% of one's income in retirement. One must have a reasonably substantial amount of savings and investments to retire comfortably without running out of savings. I've seen too many seniors who have run through their meager savings and are now relying solely on Social Security.

Julia is simply more campaign propaganda which I find misleading at best.


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RE: The life of Julia

Nik/Demi,

You are aware that 80% of RIF's budget was federally funded. You showed that government doesn't always get it wrong.

Sadly that was another program that was detrimentally affected when congress cut money to programs last year.


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RE: The life of Julia

"You are aware that 80% of RIF's budget was federally funded. You showed that government doesn't always get it wrong."

Epi, I am only aware that RIF is a non-profit. I would like to read your information about government involvement with it, though. Would you mind sharing it? Thank you.

PS I went to several garage sales today and felt like I really "scored" with the kids' books I found. For just a couple dollars, I found several books my two grandsons (3 and 5) and I can enjoy together. Yayyy!


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RE: The life of Julia

Nik, I thought you were going to say you found those books and donated them to the nearest homeless shelter but reading them with your grandchildren is wonderful too. Perhaps when you are done you will give them to those that could enjoy them with their children/grandchildren but can't afford them.

Epi, I am only aware that RIF is a non-profit. I would like to read your information about government involvement with it, though. Would you mind sharing it? Thank you.

YOU provided the info Nik. It is from RIF’s own website. Do you not read your own links? You should. If you advocate for something you should know about them.

I also learned from your link that I was unaware that congress has reinstated $28 million for literacy programs through a competitive grant program. Good for Congress and President Obama. This may be how they are diverting Head Start funds, through a process where the organization has to fit stringent criteria and guidelines (similar to how the private sector -Foundations, etc. - do it). If this is the case RIF may be one of the recipients of the HS funds. Ironic, no?


FYI, many non-profits are the recipients of government funding be it city, state or federal. Some get more than others. RIF seems to get a very large percentage of their money from the Federal government.


From your own link:
Support Children's Literacy Funding in FY13!

Tell Congress to support continued funding for the Department of Education's Innovative Approaches to Literacy grant competition!

In 2011, RIF lost $24.8 million in federal funding - representing 80 percent of our operating budget.

During the 2012 budget cycle that same year, Congress designated $28 million toward a new national literacy grant competition. While details are still being set for the competition, RIF hopes to be able to compete for a portion of these funds to support our local RIF programs. As Congress is now at work drafting the 2013 budget, it's critical that this investment in children's literacy remains. Please write to your members of Congress today. Tell them to maintain support for the Department of Education's Innovative Approaches to Literacy grant competition. Make sure your representatives in Washington know that you support funding for our nation's most critical investment: our children's success in schools - and the future.

Send the message below today.

Your voice matters.

Have you contacted your congresscritters Nik?


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RE: The life of Julia

Nik I completely agree with your thoughts on parents and their children, reading and books.

If a parent can't or won't, then I always hope that someone, somewhere is reading on a regular basis to that child or with that child.

I also feel that reading to children is one of the most important things a parent can do for a child. Not only does it teach the love for a good book and what reading can give to a person's life but it can also, just on the spur of the moment, start wonderful conversations about other things entirely - the child can share his thoughts and opinions on events in his life, ideas he has about the world, dreams he has for himself.

Some of the best moments in my life with my child took place while reading to my child, moments which ended up having nothing to do with the book's topic.

As he got older and could read for himself, DH and myself would get books that we thought he would enjoy, one of us would read it first (depending on the content decided who read it - I was completely uninterested in science fiction or fantasy) and then give it to him to read and when he was done with it, there was always a nice dinner conversation about it - animated, fun, very relaxed and close "family" time, all due to an enjoyed and shared book.

I grew up in a family who loved books and reading - this is something I was able to pass on. My husband did also, though not as much as my family, but DH also is always working on a book. The love of reading and the wonderful feeling of ownership of a treasured, favored book was a gift we were able to give to our child.

I do think you are so correct in your idea that giving age appropriate books to kids is one of the best gifts that can be given.

The Marine corps. here does the Toys For Tots at Christmas - sets up big containers in front of stores like Walmart, Target etc. which sells toys, books, clothing etc. for people to buy and put in the donation box for kids.

I do make sure there are toys for younger children and some clothing - but I always also include books for every single age group from toddler right up to mid teen. I can't imagine a life without a good book in it - glad to see that we come together completely on this issue! :)


Anyone remember the first basic reader when learning to read in school - the "Dick and Jane" series?

About 20 years ago, I was able to find an original Dick and Jane first year reader. Hard to find, the rest of them aren't all that difficult to find but oh - I hunted for that first one ("See Jane run. Run Jane run!") for ten years through many old book stores in many different states.

It's a true treasure!


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RE: The life of Julia

Mylab, I have an old Dick and Jane reader, too! I treasure it. (I can't believe you aren't a science fiction fan, though. I have this vision of you working away in some UW lab. Now I must consider that "lab" could be your dog...lol!)

When I was in first grade, we were taught to read using the Dick and Jane books. I was in "group two" because I could not read as well as some of the other students. My mom worked with me at home, and I'll never forget the teacher telling me one day that if I kept working at it, I could be in "group one!" I got there thanks to my mom. She was legally blind, but read all the time, with the books plastered right up to her nose.


Epi, I posted the RIF link for anyone interested in learning about the importance of early reading. If RIF is getting taxpayer dollars and spending them well, that's great news. I have no problem with a government/private sector partnership that promotes literacy. Did you check out that calendar? What a helpful resource!

By the way, I observed several Spanish speaking families with children at the yard sales yesterday. They all passed on the books, even though there were lots of wonderful options for kids at nearly every stop. Parents swept up toys and clothing, not even looking at the books. I'm guessing the parents either don't read well, at least in English, or perhaps don't understand the importance of working with their kids on their reading skills. To its shame, Mexico still does not provide all Mexican children with a free K-12 education. Many of the parents who come here seeking work are lucky to be able to read in their own language. This has an impact on how their children fare in our schools. The cultural impact of putting family activities ahead of academic responsibilities also makes doing well in school more challenging for many Mexican students from impoverished backgrounds. They are expected to socialize with their families, which can come at the expense of their schooling.


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RE: The life of Julia

Ah reading. My sermon to my kids, if you read you can learn anything, you can visit anywhere in the world and beyond. Books are free entertainment. Library cards cost nothing, summer reading programs cost nothing, a parents time reading to a child costs nothing but brings riches beyond compare. I read an average of two to three books a week for myself. It has always been a ritual that before bedtime they would choose a book for me to read to them. Sometimes it was the same one over and over lol. Teach a child to read and give them the world.


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RE: The life of Julia

Nik. Myl. Mrs. Hug. Wonderful reading~~Hug, thank you for the facts; Nik, Myl, Hug; thanks for the memories--thankfully some good things haven't changed :)


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RE: The life of Julia

Epi, I posted the RIF link for anyone interested in learning about the importance of early reading. If RIF is getting taxpayer dollars and spending them well, that's great news.

I am pleased you provided an example that shows not all government programs are bad and federal money isn't always misspent like some think but I still find it astonishing that you knew little about a program you advocated.

BTW, RIF also tackles the problem you outlined in your (judgmental) post with their multicultural literacy program.

By the way, I observed several Spanish speaking families with children at the yard sales yesterday. They all passed on the books, even though there were lots of wonderful options for kids at nearly every stop. Parents swept up toys and clothing, not even looking at the books. I'm guessing the parents either don't read well, at least in English, or perhaps don't understand the importance of working with their kids on their reading skills.

It is creepy that you follow strangers around a yard sale taking an accounting of what they purchase. Did you follow the white families too or just the minorities? I bet there were some caucasian families that didn't buy books. Can you tell us about them too?

Unless you had a conversation with these families to learn why they were choosing to buy what they did and why they chose to not buy books you are doing nothing but making assumptions. Do you know if they didn't already have books to read to their children and they were out to give them a treat and buy them some toys or perhaps they were simply trying to enjoy a day out?

I wonder if they knew you were tracking them taking an accounting of their purchases to make judgments and report back to a message board.


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RE: The life of Julia

It's a spin-off of the Great Shopping Cart Observance.

We grew up surrounded by books at home. Bet we went to the old Carnegie library 3 or 4 times a week, too. Loved the smell - old leather, old books, and floor polish. The overly officious librarian kept chasing me out of the "grown up" section, but my folks let her know if I could reach it, I could read it. It was the gateway to a whole new world.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Great Shopping Cart Observance." If I notice a customer paying with "Food Stamps" (or the new debit card for same purpose) I usually note what's in the cart. Same goes for the really big people. Nosy? Yep. I'm (naturally, NOT creepily) curious. Same goes with the deer hunters when they hit town for opening gun season. Lots of bacon and pancake mix. Observe what others are buying at a garage sale, flea market, store? Why not? When I hear what people order in a restaurant, I pay attention to that too.

Tracking people? Do you think that maybe you're reading something sinister into an innocent and innocuous observation, Epi?


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RE: The life of Julia

Considering that hispanic literacy rates are lower than white and black, it's a reasonable speculation.

Considering experience with certain cultural proclivities, education and reading is not necessarily a priority in certain families.


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re: rif

Demi, I take it you mean Nik's speculation, not Epi's?


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RE: The life of Julia

"Considering experience with certain cultural proclivities, education and reading is not necessarily a priority in certain families."

Is that a not so subtle way of saying Hispanics don't like to read?


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Accuracy

No, I would have said that if I meant to say that.

I said exactly what I meant.

It is your responsibility to read the words as carefully as I intentionally crafted them.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Considering experience with certain cultural proclivities, education and reading is not necessarily a priority in certain families"

I am guessing you must mean in your own personal experience or is there some empirical data to support your assertion?


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cultural proclivities

"It is your responsibility to read the words as carefully as I intentionally crafted them."

I did. That is why I asked the question.


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RE: The life of Julia

Reading is NOT a priority in way too many families. I joined the library at a very young age and alway had books out. My father was an avid reader,but I have hazy memories of my childhood and if I was read to , it was quite early as a infant/toddler. Nonetheless , the reading gene got me and when my kids were three , they were enrolled at the local library. One librarian said my son was too young. I guaranteed her there would be no destruction of books by him. Their great aunts were teachers, and they got many books as gifts and I bought them Golden books for a quarter every week at the grocery store. I still have a bookshelf filled to the brim with all their books which the grand kids then read. The whole Uncle Wiggly series, Nancy Drew, Bobsey twins..(all mine) and the Hardy boys series, my husbands. When we moved to a new town, the first week I enrolled in a library. As far fetched as this sounds, in the 70's when we moved to this area, I joined the local library and started going every Wednesday and in all those decades missed only a handful of Wednesdays. Librarians wonder where we are if we don't show. I read a book or two a week, husband more. Sadly my kids don't seem to read as much (time restrictions and jobs ) but both grand kids were read to and are excellent students. GD graduated yesterday with honors from a wonderful university.

Reading is fundamental, as they say.There needs to be a campaign to educate poor and uninformed parents how important it is.

BTW..I have some great Dick and Jane books from the 30's and 40's.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Considering experience with certain cultural proclivities, education and reading is not necessarily a priority in certain families."

Is that a not so subtle way of saying Hispanics don't like to read?


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ASSumptions

Demi, this was a yard sale not a book sale.

Without any knowledge Nik was making an ASSumtion about people she didn't know. Profiling or stereotyping is not reasonable speculation. There is nothing reasonable about following strangers judging what they buy.

How would you know the families that Nik observed did not find reading a priority simply because they didn't buy used books at a yard sale? Nik didn't have a conversation with them to know anything at all just what she made up in her head about them.

How do you know that the kids are not excellent readers or that the books that were there were either not challenging enough or didn't interest them?

How do you know that they families didn't have enough books at home or perhaps purchased books elsewhere and didn't need more from the yard sale?

You don't know anything and yet you make negative judgments about these people based simply on your stereotypes nothing else.


You don't like when it is done to you. You don't like when people lump you in with the TP'ers and other right wing crazies even though your posts agree with many of them.

There needs to be a campaign to educate poor and uninformed parents how important it is.

There already is. Look at the link.


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RE: The life of Julia

From Literacy Issues: The U.S. Department of Education describes the achievement gap as the difference in academic performance between different ethnic groups. The current disparity in academic achievement amongst low-income African Americans and Hispanics as compared to their White peers is alarming. By 4th grade, African American and Hispanic students are, on average, nearly three academic years behind their White peers.

"Is that a not so subtle way of saying Hispanics don't like to read?"

Don't like to, or don't know how to? If parents either cannot, or do not love to read, they can't pass on a love of reading to their children.

Experts estimate that nearly 40 percent of U.S. 4th graders do not achieve basic levels of reading proficiency. The number is higher among low-income families, certain minority groups, and English language learners.


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RE: The life of Julia

When I was a kid my brother and I would get a football annual between us at Christmas, they were the only books in the house. I was maybe 10 years old before I could read but didn't. In my teens someone gave me his copy of 'Brave New World' to read, he said "Don't pass over any words you don't understand" by the time I got to page three I was so angry with myself and I had no idea what the book was about.

I usually tell this story with a violin accompaniment but my reason for telling it here is that I believe motivation can overcome a bad start, although growing up in a home where books are part of everyday life like my kids did is better, late starters can often catch up.


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RE: The life of Julia

Epi, read my words carefully please and don't assign stances to me. Of course I don't know the individuals' circumstances, neither does Nic and you don't.

I was very careful in what I said for a reason, not to make assumptions about an entire group of people because although there is a reason and basis for stereotypes, they do not reflect every person. I personally know hispanics at the top of their professions, highly educated. I also know hispanics who dropped from high school and the main goal was to get pregnant and produce children. So that's why I am careful.

However, considering the literacy rate among hispanics, as mrskjun pointed out, the speculation that reading isn't a priority is certainly within the realm of possibilities due to this fact, and certain possible cultural proclivities.

It's certainly a more reasonable speculation than a statement that people that work hard and save their money don't laugh or love their families as much as poor people who don't work as much. It is certainly a more reasonable speculation that a statement that when a man that works hard and saves money to support his family is not missed when he dies and all his family cares about is money and avoiding taxes.

But that's okay, I know how this game is played around here.

There are posters with character that called out that hateful tripe.

I don't recall you as being one of them.


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cultural proclivities

I thought it might be interesting to have a look at some Hispanic 'cultural proclivities'. Readers will no doubt know of Isabel Allende and Gabriel Garcia Marquez but here is a list of some books and authors you may no have heard of.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hispanic authors


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RE: The life of Julia

Yes, those individuals would fit into what I said as well, Ink.


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RE: The life of Julia

Then I obviously misunderstood because I posted that list as an example that shows no proclivity for illiteracy in Hispanics but the opposite.I think it may be easier to find a link between illiteracy and poverty.


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RE: The life of Julia

I know that, Ink.

My words:

"I was very careful in what I said for a reason, not to make assumptions about an entire group of people because although there is a reason and basis for stereotypes, they do not reflect every person. I personally know hispanics at the top of their professions, highly educated."


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Chicken and Egg

"I think it may be easier to find a link between illiteracy and poverty."

*

Yes, illiteracy can keep people in poverty.

Poverty does not make people illiterate.

People in poverty can learn to read.


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RE: The life of Julia

"... I still find it astonishing that you knew little about a program you advocated."

My "advocacy" is for literacy. I posted the RIF link for the convenience of folks who might be interested in learning more.

"BTW, RIF also tackles the problem you outlined in your (judgmental) post with their multicultural literacy program."

Not judgmental at all. Try studying the needs of diverse groups in an academic setting, and you might learn something. Or read what Richard Rodriguez wrote many years ago in "Hunger of Memory." It's not "judgmental" to understand what may be getting in the way of a child's success in school. It is essential for those who work with children from diverse cultures to understand the role a given culture may be playing in classroom performance.

"Without any knowledge Nik was making an ASSumtion about people she didn't know."

You know nothing about my knowledge base. However, statements like the ones you just made tell me a great deal about yours.



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RE: The life of Julia

Yes, illiteracy can keep people in poverty.

Poverty does not make people illiterate.

People in poverty can learn to read.

This is an extrapolation of what I said and meant and I am not sure whether you spun/span it purposely or not bearing in mind the history of such things. Maybe you just didn't understand.

Poverty is not the cause of illiteracy: illiteracy is not the cause of poverty. Poor people are less likely to be literate due to limited access to books for one reason or another. In spite of these obstacles many do learn to read. All kids like stories and all cultures value story telling, sometimes the leap from story telling to books is difficult hence the value of reading to a child from a book as if you are telling the story and then somehow connecting it back to the book.


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RE: The life of Julia

If I notice a customer paying with "Food Stamps" (or the new debit card for same purpose)

How can you even see their debit card? Even if I am the next person in line, I cannot see what KIND of card someone is paying with. And of course they don't even pull it out until everything is bagged up.


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RE: The life of Julia

How can you even see their debit card? Even if I am the next person in line, I cannot see what KIND of card someone is paying with.

You have to be nosey.


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RE: The life of Julia

Absolutely. Nosy big time! In this town, we look each other in the eye and say "hello"--yes that's right; we talk to each other--even if we don't actually know each other (gasp! I hear in some places people actually avoid eye contact).

It's easy to see how people are paying--just open your eyes and pay attention.

Remember, in Jodi's words: "We're all in this together."


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RE: The life of Julia

However, considering the literacy rate among hispanics, as mrskjun pointed out, the speculation that reading isn't a priority is certainly within the realm of possibilities due to this fact, and certain possible cultural proclivities.

Demi, anything is within the realm of possibility including those families care greatly about the future and betterment of their children. They simply didn't buy books that Nik witnessed.

Like others I can't figure out why anyone would care what other people buy and how they pay for it (not to mention use it on a message point to make a point). It is no one's business. Looking someone in the eye and saying hello doesn't give one license to inspect their purchases in order to criticize their choices. My neighbors and I all say hello and look each other in the eyes, but we don't inspect each others grocery deliveries and discuss it. Signs that some people need hobbies or more important things to think about.

Sorry Nik, but you showed your ignorance with this statement Epi, I am only aware that RIF is a non-profit. I would like to read your information about government involvement with it, though. Would you mind sharing it? Thank you. You claim to advocate literacy. Good for you. There are many good literacy groups out there so I find it funny you picked RIF especially on this thread. You knew little about the organization you advocated and linked. Everything, including their annual reports from 2006-2010 is right on their website. Yes, I will admit I find it ironic (funny) you started this thread maligning federally funded programs only to unknowingly laud one of the large ones.

Ok, so if we go with your logic and thinking and apply it to people from Louisiana, then based on the statistics liked below all people from that state can and should be perceived as being poorly educated since Louisiana ranks 45 out of 50 in best educated states.

Next time I am in Louisiana or encounter anyone from there should I assume that they are poorly educated because the stats tell me that and because there is some basis in truth in the stereotypes? Should I assume this is because no one in Louisiana cares about education? That they don't take personal responsibility and educate themselves? If they did then they would be better educated. Right?

Should I make an assumption about the family of 4 I see next to me on the check-out line who are dressed sloppily and look messy based on their purchases without any other knowledge about them? If they buy soda, candy, cake, etc. I should assume they are stupid, ignorant southerners that don't care about their family and feed them nothing but sugar laden foods. Instead of maybe that Mom and Dad, both college grads who ran out of the house quickly in sweats and a tee to shop for a party they are throwing to celebrate their son's birthday or maybe even his good grades and maybe they shopped for their vegetables, meats and other healthier items elsewhere. Making assumptions about people with no knowledge is ignorant and foolish.Itd doesn't matter if it is southerners or Hispanics.


You and Mrskjun always voice your displeasure when you feel southerners are portrayed and judged derogatorily based on stereotypes and misconceptions and statistics, so why do you think it is acceptable when you and others do it and/ or try to justify it when someone does? You can't have it both ways.

Citing statistics or trying to use history to justify one's own bigotry doesn't work.

But that's okay, I know how this game is played around here.
I don't recall you as being one of them.


No one is playing games unless bringing dirty laundry from other threads counts. Why address me about what someone else said to you? Your problem with what others post are of no concern to me. You will forgive me when I respond coldly after reading posts that make me feel I want to take a shower.

Here is a link that might be useful: Best Educated by state


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RE: The life of Julia

Epi, you made good points in your post.

I will never be one that supports making assumptions about people, but I also won't be one that assumes people are racists or bad people because they do.

Right or wrong, we all do it in some form or another.
Some forms are just more offensive to some than others.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Progressive states know where their priorites should be. As for immigration skewering the stats... how many of the bottom 15-20 consistently vote Republican?"

This is a quote from Epi's link. The answer is simple. Illegal immigrants are included in the education results, but until this year, they haven't been allowed to vote.


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RE: The life of Julia

It's easy to see how people are paying--just open your eyes and pay attention.

Remember, in Jodi's words: "We're all in this together."

I fail to see any relevance in Jodi's words to your nosiness, or why they're a justification for looking into others' wallets any more than peeping into their bedroom windows? Any such impulses seem pretty unpalatable.


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RE: Epi Making ASSUMPTIONS

Epi: I'll address the portion of your post directed at my post. I AM nosy, and I do observe all sorts of things. However, I didn't say anything critical about anyone's purchase choices, nor how they paid for same.

Epi: "Looking someone in the eye and saying hello doesn't give one license to inspect their purchases in order to criticize their choices."

I should think not! If that's the way YOU operate, and I can only guess that you must think that way, well okay. It takes all kinds.

How about:

"Should I make an assumption about the family of 4 I see next to me on the check-out line who are dressed sloppily and look messy based on their purchases without any other knowledge about them?"

Again, if you must.

Just so you are clear that is your idea, not mine.

I forgive you ahead of time; no need to admit your error in JUDGMENT. :)


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RE: The life of Julia

epi said..."You and Mrskjun always voice your displeasure when you feel southerners are portrayed and judged derogatorily based on stereotypes and misconceptions and statistics, so why do you think it is acceptable when you and others do it and/ or try to justify it when someone does? You can't have it both ways."

There was nothing bigoted about what the Dept. of Education had to say epi. It is discussing a problem that needs to be addressed. My dil is hispanic.

To try to equate that with the constant disparaging remarks about the south is a bit of a stretch don't you think?


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RE: The life of Julia

"Illegal immigrants are included in the education results, but until this year, they haven't been allowed to vote."

Is this statement true? Can illegals now vote?


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RE: The life of Julia

Absolutely. Nosy big time! In this town, we look each other in the eye and say "hello"--yes that's right; we talk to each other--even if we don't actually know each other (gasp! I hear in some places people actually avoid eye contact).

It's easy to see how people are paying--just open your eyes and pay attention.

Honestly, I don't get this. I talk to people all the time - in fact, my children say I talk to strangers too much: in the store, in line, in the yard when I'm walking! I do sometimes look in the cart and use that observation to remind myself that I forgot to get milk (because I saw it in their cart) or isn't that clever how they hang that 6 pack of soda on the side of the cart like that .... But again, none of that helps me realize HOW they are paying for their groceries unless they take too long to write their check or they give the cashier a big bill and she can't cash it. MOST people pay by credit/debit card and it is just a quick swipe and then back in their wallet. I can't tell what kind it is.


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RE: The life of Julia

To me it's not hard to notice even if one wasn't "nosey" lol. When someone uses the food stamp card, there are certain items not covered by the card. If first they use a card, and then also have to add cash, you pretty much are going to notice because you have to stand and wait longer.


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!RE: The life of Julia

Well then I guess I don't have that happening around here because I have not noticed anyone paying with both cash and a card.


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RE: The life of Julia

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Mon, May 7, 12 at 7:36

To me it's not hard to notice even if one wasn't "nosey" lol. When someone uses the food stamp card, there are certain items not covered by the card. If first they use a card, and then also have to add cash, you pretty much are going to notice because you have to stand and wait longer.

*

Exactly.

I was behind a girl in line a week or so ago and it was unusual because she only had four or five items--milk, bread, a few items--and then paid for some item separately (bleach I think) using cash, and there were two separate transactions.

Of course one can always just request a separate transaction for items and want two receipts, but I have definitely seen many carts of groceries paid for with SNAP cards when not even thinking about--it's like noticing a person in front of you taking out their VISA or writing a check. You're not even thinking about how a person is paying or caring, you're just watching them waiting your turn.

You tend to notice when you think it's your turn to check out and then there's another transaction for other items.


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RE: The life of Julia

Is this statement true? Can illegals now vote?

No, Chase. That was tongue-in-cheek. The rest is true, however.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Is this statement true? Can illegals now vote?"

What's to stop them?


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RE: The life of Julia

"What's to stop them?"

Soon, there will be very little!


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RE: The life of Julia

Houseful what are you talking about? Is something new happening?


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Voting

No, but identity theft is getting easier and easier.


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RE: The life of Julia

THATS IT !!@!! ILLEGAL IMMYGRANTS ARE STEALING IDENTITIES TO VOTE !!@!

OMG OMGO OGMO OMG !!@!


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RE: The life of Julia

Yup, other other reasons.


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RE: The life of Julia

That must be tricky when you can't read, write, or speak the language.

Hope they are stealing the identities of other mexicans, passing for an O'Grady would be tricky as well!


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RE: The life of Julia

Yeah, I'd like to see a brown-skinned person show up to vote for me. They'd take one look at my very Caucasian name and say "I don't think that is you.". Not to mention that we have to show ID.


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RE: The life of Julia

"THATS IT !!@!! ILLEGAL IMMYGRANTS ARE STEALING IDENTITIES TO VOTE !!@!"

Since when?


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RE: The life of Julia

There was nothing bigoted about what the Dept. of Education had to say epi. It is discussing a problem that needs to be addressed. My dil is hispanic.

To try to equate that with the constant disparaging remarks about the south is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Mrsk, Demi seems to have understood my point (thank you) but it apparently went right over your head. Whoooosh. So be it.
Hint. It had nothing to do with what the Dept of Ed said.

You having a DIL who is Hispanic is neither here nor there and means nothing. Reminds me of “some of my best friends are…so I can’t be!”.


I also won't be one that assumes people are racists or bad people because they do.

Demi, I find that people that truly aren’t prejudiced and their intentions are pure recognize their mistake, own it, apologize for it, learn a lesson and move on. It usually doesn’t happen again and hey usually don't try to defend it or justify it. They own their words.

"Progressive states know where their priorites should be. As for immigration skewering the stats... how many of the bottom 15-20 consistently vote Republican?"

This is a quote from Epi's link. The answer is simple. Illegal immigrants are included in the education results, but until this year, they haven't been allowed to vote.

Houseful, What bearing does the opinion of a commenter on the other site by the name of NewEnglander have to do with this discussion? If you want to respond to them then I suggest you post your answer on the other site.


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But...

"Yeah, I'd like to see a brown-skinned person show up to vote for me. They'd take one look at my very Caucasian name and say "I don't think that is you.". Not to mention that we have to show ID."

But that would be racial profiling!


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RE: The life of Julia

Hope they are stealing the identities of other mexicans, passing for an O'Grady would be tricky as well!

It probably wouldn't be that difficult.

Look at George Zimmerman. He has a "white" last name so the initial press coverage went wild about the white vs black angle.

Then they found out he has a hispanic mother and "looks" hispanic. If Zimmerman showed up to vote, would they question him in spite of how he looks?

Would it make a difference if his mother was the white one and his father (and last name) was hispanic?


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!RE: The life of Julia

I don't know that it would be any different than if a young looking person (e.g., 18) tried to buy beer and presented an ID that said he was 20 years older than he looked (e.g., 38). The person handling the transaction should go "Hmmmmm, this doesn't seem right".

Is that age profiling?


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RE: The life of Julia

Either I live in an area where no one uses food stamps at stores I shop in, but I have never seen anyone using them. I never watch to see how people pay for their purchases. I WILL admit I have glanced in the carts of very obese people wondering how they got to weigh 300 plus pounds, and usually see it piled with stuff from the middle of the store..soda, cookies, candy, snacks, no fruits or veggies, but in general I'm not at the store to socialize or check out how a person pays or what they buy.

I am much impressed that almost all the states in the northeast are in the top dozen on the list with the best educated kids. Of course I'll be called an elitist snob for pointing this out, but facts don't lie.


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RE: The life of Julia

Food stamps were replaced by the EBT cards back in 2004, I think, so you'd never know what "kind" of card someone was using.

I've never much cared what others have in their carts or the physical attributes of the cart pushers - although I have been mildly curious about the mountains of things people will buy at Sams Club, etc. It's like extreme couponing without the coupons at times.


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RE: The life of Julia

I can remember when people had those fist fulls of coupons-the paper food stamps and I have to say it never occured to to either pay attention to what they were buying or to judge them for using food stamps but then I have no Christian principles.


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RE: The life of Julia

I must have missed something patriciae, who exactly said they judged them for using food stamps. I think the only thing was said that people noticed it for different reasons. That's certainly not a judgement.


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RE: The life of Julia

Thank you, Mrs. My point since the jump.

Perhaps the fact that I actually distributed Food Stamps for years and investigated all types of welfare fraud as part of my job makes me more aware of who is using them and why.

There are people getting benefits who shouldn't be, and there are people not getting benefits who should be. There are many, many stories, and many issues, and more than 2 sides to all the issues.


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RE: The life of Julia

I agree Elvis - there are many people getting food stamps for a variety of reasons, a very small percentage of them are, indeed, scammers.

But most are not, thank goodness, so I feel my tax dollars for food stamps are going to feed those who need help.

The fact that some use the food stamps for what they can buy and then pay in cash for what the stamps won't pay for seems like reasonable human consumption, to me.

And even if it didn't, it would still be none of my business to try to reason why they were choosing the purchases they wanted to purchase. Chances are, whatever conclusion I would arrive at would be incorrect, anyway.

I don't think that what intended purchases are found in a stranger's cart are good enough clues to determine the life, character or honesty of any person, not by long shot. Not to me, at any rate.

I bring my e-reader whenever I leave the house, I like to amuse myself by reading on my current book or magazine.


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RE: The life of Julia

Myl: "I don't think that what intended purchases are found in a stranger's cart are good enough clues to determine the life, character or honesty of any person, not by long shot. Not to me, at any rate."

Agreed. And? Who said it was--certainly not moi. You're not assuming, presuming, to know why I make observations, are you? No, no. Bad idea. Don't go there.

Myl: "I bring my e-reader whenever I leave the house, I like to amuse myself by reading on my current book or magazine."

Very nice. :)


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RE: The life of Julia

Re Headstart.

Headstart works...for a few years. It really does help to close the gap between kids from privileged neighborhoods and kids from poor homes. Very unfortunately, by fourth grade or so, impoverished kids who attended Headstart start slipping, and by middle school the advantage has pretty much disappeared. The kids who attended Headstart end up being no better off than the poor kids who didn't. Until you change the homelife and culture, Headstart is a waste of money if you are trying to improve academic achievement.

Proponents claim that the kids are in a safe, wholesome environment and that Headstart is a good jobs program, so that's what taxpayers are really paying for.


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RE: The life of Julia

So if nothing else, it is nice day care. I have no problem with that~~


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RE: The life of Julia

Elvis please re-read my comments. Nowhere did I say any such thing.

You would not be assuming, presuming anything which was
not said very specifically in my comments regarding anyone else in this thread are you?

No, no.

BAD idea. Don't go there.


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RE: Your Post

Myl; Right here.

Posted by mylab123 z5NW (My Page) on Tue, May 8, 12 at 11:46

I agree Elvis - there are many people getting food stamps for a variety of reasons, a very small percentage of them are, indeed, scammers.
But most are not, thank goodness, so I feel my tax dollars for food stamps are going to feed those who need help.

The fact that some use the food stamps for what they can buy and then pay in cash for what the stamps won't pay for seems like reasonable human consumption, to me.

And even if it didn't, it would still be none of my business to try to reason why they were choosing the purchases they wanted to purchase. Chances are, whatever conclusion I would arrive at would be incorrect, anyway.

I don't think that what intended purchases are found in a stranger's cart are good enough clues to determine the life, character or honesty of any person, not by long shot. Not to me, at any rate.

I bring my e-reader whenever I leave the house, I like to amuse myself by reading on my current book or magazine.


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RE: The life of Julia

Elvis: right here.

I said what I said. I didn't say what I didn't say. Don't presume.


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RE: The life of Julia

Well, Myl. I have no idea what you are talking about. It's obvious I'm talking about your post, above in its entirety. Which I'm thinking is your response because I said I observe what is in shopping carts, etc.

If you're talking about something else, I do not know what it is.


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RE: The life of Julia

"I can remember when people had those fist fulls of coupons-the paper food stamps and I have to say it never occured to to either pay attention to what they were buying or to judge them for using food stamps but then I have no Christian principles."

How strange. As a taxpayer, I have always been interested in what government does with the "contributions" it compels me to supply for redistribution to people like Julia. It quite naturally occurs to me to question why my tax money would ever be used to put chips and sodas into the shopping carts of tens of millions of needy Julias all over the country. Chips, sodas, cream puffs and cakes are health risks to Julia and her fatherless child. I cannot think of a single reason any taxpayer should be forced to buy Julia and her child unhealthy junk foods that contribute to obesity and health costs.


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RE: The life of Julia

Nic, who has a knack for peeling off the extraneous nonsense and getting to the heart of the matter.

I'm very interested in how my tax money is spent, too, particularly when I'm castigated for even questioning how it is spent.

By the way, who wants to admit they sent in extra noney to the federal coffers this year?

Or any money at all?


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RE: The life of Julia

Right because someone, especially a child, that needs federal assistance to eat should never get to have a piece of cake as a treat. Bad, bad, bad.

Yet again, demi points out she's the only one paying taxes around here. That is so old.


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RE: The life of Julia

We send every single penny we owe every single year for as long as we both have been employed. Since we don't make a tremendous amount of money or, for that matter, much more than slightly lower middle class income, I don't ask from myself to send in extra to make up for those who owe more but wriggle their way out of paying it, all done with a clear conscience.


So, here's one of the 99% who pays what they owe - all without loopholes to take advantage of in order to pay less - we pay every single solitary cent , even if we don't agree with some of the taxes owed, we pay anyway.

We don't even deduct for our various individual and combined charity donations, for which we pay more of a percentage of our income than we can probably actually afford.


Next?


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RE: The life of Julia

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Wed, May 9, 12 at 13:45

"Right because someone, especially a child, that needs federal assistance to eat should never get to have a piece of cake as a treat. Bad, bad, bad.

Yet again, demi points out she's the only one paying taxes around here. That is so old."

*

Puleaze...no one begrudges a kid a piece of cake and no one said anything like that jillinnj.

Your sarcasm and false characterizations of others' opinions get in the way of any point you might want to make lately.

We're talking millions of people making poor decisions with taxpayer money which is ultimately going to cost taxpayers MORE money.

Right now, if taxpayers have some control over what people eat when the government is footing the bill (school lunches, rules, etc) what do you think it's going to be like when and if Obamacare comes into full effect?

Can't have that, the government will have to spend more taking care of you. Can't have a soft drink, the government will have to spend more taking care of you.

Just more control.

One more lie of yours to address, and please stop it. Just stop it:

"Yet again, demi points out she's the only one paying taxes around here. That is so old."

I never said anything of the sort and you KNOW IT.

What gets old is people that don't pay federal taxes whining about other people not paying enough in their estimation.


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RE: The life of Julia

Re the persons cart contents-for all I would know they are having a birthday party for little Julia-I would not presume to assume that they always buy chips and cake. I would hope not but I also know many young mothers dont know how to cook nor how to properly feed their kids-fixing that would take even more money and I am sure the more conservative of you here would say it is not our job through our government to fix those lacks in poor little Julia's mother and father.


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RE: The life of Julia

Its so much more difficult to be a grocery store checkout line condescending busybody these days of plastic, isn't it ladies?

I mean, unless you ask, how can you know its food assistance? So now we just have to go on how they dress, skin color, and all that.


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bad parents

We should have a bad parent tax to recoup the tax money spent because of bad parenting.


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RE: The life of Julia

"We should have a bad parent tax to recoup the tax money spent because of bad parenting."

Now that's an idea I can support!


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it's big and it's blue

Posted by david52 z5CO (My Page) on
Wed, May 9, 12 at 14:31

Its so much more difficult to be a grocery store checkout line condescending busybody these days of plastic, isn't it ladies?

I mean, unless you ask, how can you know its food assistance? So now we just have to go on how they dress, skin color, and all that.

*

That shows what you don't know David.

It's easy and you do NOT "have to go on how they dress, skin color, and all that." That would be prejudice and speculation, just like you just did.

Here's how you know:

LOUISIANA FOOD STAMPS SNAP CARD


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oh, so you crowd them

Oh, I see - you just have to crowd them really close in the line to see what they swiped.

Myself? I usually give the person ahead of me plenty of time to write their check, swipe their card, etc, holding back a good 6 feet. I thought that was just being polite.

But I'll try your technique, Demi, and jam up against them to see what they use.


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RE: The life of Julia

Geez, David, you don't have to "crowd" anyone here.
What a denigrating thing to presume that I or anyone else does.

Most people that use them aren't ashamed and don't hide it.
They whip those things right out.

It's just a lifestyle for some poeple--some have never known anything other than paying for their groceries with a prepaid food stamp card.

*

Mylab, what and who exactly are you referring to in these comments?

"I don't ask from myself to send in extra to make up for those who owe more but wriggle their way out of paying it, all done with a clear conscience.

So, here's one of the 99% who pays what they owe - all without loopholes to take advantage of in order to pay less - we pay every single solitary cent , even if we don't agree with some of the taxes owed, we pay anyway.

We don't even deduct for our various individual and combined charity donations, for which we pay more of a percentage of our income than we can probably actually afford."

*

What "loopholes?" Seriously, I'd like to know exactly what they are because I don't have any "loopholes."

Who is "wriggling" out?
There are tax forms, mylab, with spaces to make deductions.
Do you consider it "wriggling" out of paying taxes to accurately complete a tax form?

That seems awful strange to me.

Seriously, I would truly love to hear your explanation of what you mean by "wriggling."

And since "loopholes" are legal, as is not paying a dime in taxes for certain citizens that DO have income, what's the problem?

Perhaps you feel the same about "loopholes" as I do--they should be gone. I also feel that EVERYONE with income should pay federal income tax.

I'm willing to support that, are you?

As to charity, I think many of us give cash and don't claim it. It's a good thing, deductions aren't the priority, helping is.

I will be interested to hear your definition of "wriggling" and how a taxpayer should complete their income tax in that regard.


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RE: The life of Julia

*gasp*!

How DARE you question me! How dare you!!!@@$!

Oh, the effrontery of assuming I would be speaking or referring to you or yours! (however, if the shoe fits..)

Oh, the presumption to think I would deign to answer such a question!

The outraged!! The OUTRAG!!@$@@!

Gotta run now, busy busy!


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Not an answer

Umm Hmmmm.

No answers.

Oh, mylab. Mylab.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Yet again, demi points out she's the only one paying taxes around here. That is so old."

I never said anything of the sort and you KNOW IT.

Of course, you don't say those exact words. You just imply it EVERY CHANCE YOU GET.

Why bother to keep repeating it over and over again? Do you really want to take a poll? I would bet most people here pay taxes.

Mylab went first. I'll go.

Yes, I pay taxes. I pay a lot of taxes. And, I believe I should probably pay more taxes. I am certainly not in the top 1% or anywhere close, but I am probably in a bracket whose taxes will be raised if our government does the right thing. And I am ok with that as long as the 1% also pay their fair share which they are not doing. But they can buy legislation to keep from paying anymore. Something I cannot do.

And, unlike you, I do not think that someone that makes $10,000 per year should pay taxes (said on a different thread). There is nothing left to pay taxes with.

what do you think it's going to be like when and if Obamacare comes into full effect?

I think more people will be able to get health insurance at a more reasonable rate. And I think that's a very good thing.


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RE: The life of Julia

May be.

And what do you think the other consequences of that act will be?

A LOT more expensive just to cover a few--which we could have done and not affected people who do not want to be affected by this terrible legislation.

*

If you think you should pay more taxes, why don't you lead by example?

I don't believe in throwing good money after bad.
Until all waste and graft is eliminated, I don't want to pay another dime.

Our government, our President and our representatives are HAPPY to throw our money away.

GSA parties in Vegas ring a bell?

I'm not used to throwing money away.
Apparently it doesn't bother some.


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RE: The life of Julia

We should have gotten single payer. But the Republicans wouldn't let that happen. So we got the best we could get for now. It's a start which is better than nothing.

If you think you should pay more taxes, why don't you lead by example?

That's a ridiculous statement but you already knew that. The laws need to be changed so everyone pays their fair share. Then I'll be happy to do so also.

Yes, of course there's waste. My solution would be to find and get rid of the waste. Not to do away with the programs completely.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Right because someone, especially a child, that needs federal assistance to eat should never get to have a piece of cake as a treat. Bad, bad, bad."

Sorry. Nobody is entitled to federal assistance to keep cupcakes on the menu.

If the "obesity epidemic" is the crisis our government says it is, government has a duty to simplify choices for Julia and other SNAP recipients, so that making bad food choices is no longer an option. Government should quickly end the subsidy for unhealthy food choices. It's best for everybody.


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RE: The life of Julia

This one's for every poster that says Demi thinks she is the only one who pays taxes.

You must stop thinking for her--she's doing that all by herself. While you're at it, don't think for me, either. I look at other people's shopping carts, I watch them pay for their groceries, I notice cars as they pass by, turkeys and deer and wolves in the yard, eagles overhead, what they're saying on TV. So what?

Do you consider it "indelicate" to notice when people use Food Food Stamps or a SNAP card? If so, why? If they are buying a lot of junk food, that does bother me. A policeman in uniform at Dunkin Donuts bothers me, and surly public employees, too. I am a stakeholder. It's not only my right, it's my obligation, to pay attention. Like checking over the Medicare bill.

There are (quite) obviously ASSumptions going on here about motives. I shouldn't have to tell anyone that no one can know what another's motive are.

Take a post at face value and if you don't value it don't engage.

However, I've seen a few posts where the very cranky, intolerent posters here are left to their own kind, and frankly those threads are mindless and mercifully short. We need disagreement for discussions, but the intolerence and downright bigotry against conservatives on this forum is pretty ludricrous. And the defensiveness--

I defy anyone to respond to this post without deflection or being insulting, condescending, or defensive.


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RE: The life of Julia

"Take a post at face value and if you don't value it don't engage."

That would not make for much of a debate on the "Hot Topics" forum, would it?


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RE: The life of HT

Exactly, Frank :)


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