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God Bless them

Posted by Big_Papi none (My Page) on
Tue, May 1, 12 at 17:59

And the Tea Party is the party that's dangerous?

H@ll.....The Tea Party even picks up their own trash.

"The protesters moved down the street in a destructive swath, breaking out windows at businesses and buildings on the way, including the old federal courthouse at Sixth Avenue and Spring Street, where self-proclaimed superhero Phoenix Jones was seen with his can of pepper spray. At times, Jones was surrounded by the menacing figures during the mayhem. Much of the damage was caused by a handful of anarchists on Sixth Avenue."

And....Hmmmmmmmm....what is this May Day thing of which they speak?

Here is a link that might be useful: Nancy's PAC


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: God Bless them

In other news worldwide May Day celebrations have passed without notice by a media only interested in picking up trash.


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Don't know where that building would be it has me very curious as I live right off Spring and My living room window faces out to 6th Avenue.
Annoying helicopters buzzing around making it sound like a war zones. I know there were thousands of people up in Union square trapped behind baracades unable to parade in a parade they had a permit for.
I guess they need the overtime if you bust someone who has already been busted before it's at least 6 hours of OT which is at least 1 mortgage payment.
Old Federal Court on Spring and 6th makes no sense to me Spring & 6th is God's Love we Deliver an old office building but nothing that looks like an old Federal Court.
6th and 8th is the Old Jefferson Market Courthouse but that's way way up.
It must have been a fizzle because aside from the heliciopters and the million cop cars buzzing all over the place the Village was pretty Quiet.
I was down near the Old Federal Court in Lower Manhattan this morning for business but all I saw was a lot of Cops and a small band of May day leftist yaking about jobs that was a fizzle. There were a couple of hundred people in Bryant park. IN NYC a couple of hundred come on now they were calling for a general strike fer Petes sake they got spotty crowds here & here at best. The Spring is young the warm weather will bring out whatever! Not much to see here rage on! To me it was fizzle in the drizzle.
More folks show up at Union Square for the yearly Pillow fight.
Now Saturday there was every kind of car & tactical patrol type you could imagine up in Union Square the only thing they seemed to have been accomplishing was getting in the way of shoppers at our great Farmers Market.

Here is a link that might be useful: Danger will robinson


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RE: God Bless them

"Posted by inkognito (My Page) on
Tue, May 1, 12 at 18:05

In other news worldwide May Day celebrations have passed without notice by a media only interested in picking up trash."

This is a celebration?

Looks more like rioting to me.

All brought courtesy of the Occupy crowd.

Who woulda thunk it?


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RE: God Bless them

yeah they are bad people!


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RE: God Bless them

I was near Union Square and there were more barricades than people.

Big Papi, I would think if it happened as you claim the local news would have picked it up. They didn't. Your source seems to have stretched the truth. There were few clashes and no destruction of buildings.

As Labrea stated above there is no Old Federal Courthouse on Sixth and Spring. Your source needs to get better reporters and do some fact-checking. You should too.

Here is a link that might be useful: New York City local news report


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RE: God Bless them

"Your source needs to get better reporters and do some fact-checking. You should too."

Did you read the link in the OP?

Hay


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RE: God Bless them

HAY TO THE RESCUE!


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Meanwhile in SAn Francisco

Occupy and Destroy San Francisco

"In San Francisco, May Day protests began early, as a demonstration that started peacefully in Dolores Park on Monday night ended with widespread vandalism.

More than 100 masked protesters -- dressed in black and gray and wielding crowbars and paintball guns -- descended on a busy restaurant and retail stretch in the city's Mission district. Vandals smashed windows, defaced cars and attacked the neighborhood police station."

Hay


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And in Ohio

Ohio chapter

"The men had been associated with the anti-corporate Occupy Cleveland movement...

Charming people who like to blow up bridges.

Occupy and Destroy Everything!!!

Hay


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Oh see we are so NY Centric thank you Hay that was so much better, yeah they are bad men it was a big fizzle here.


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Hay, I was just about to post the Ohio incident. They're everywhere! ;-)


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May Day Marches in Los Angeles

May Day Marchers Get Started in Santa Monica
Occupy L.A. organized a 'May 1 Four Winds/General Strike' event involving four caravans converging on downtown from Santa Monica, Carson, San Fernando Valley and Monterey Park.


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RE: God Bless them

The Ohio incident was the culmination of an FBI investigation that took place several weeks in advance of May Day. A paid informant assisted the FBI in bringing down a dangerous group, that posed no danger because they were being infiltrated and monitored 24/7.

They are not a "representative group" of Occupy Cleveland. They are bad people with criminal records.

Here is a link that might be useful: How it all went down


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I miss the old Moscow missile parades from the Cold War on May Day...


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Add up all the cost of the destruction by the anarchists (not the core Occupy) and it STILL would be just a tiny fraction of the economic cost of the Tea Party's hostage taking during the deficit ceiling debate. They not only caused the loss of US credit rankings, the loss of wealth as the stock market dipped and Europe reeled (which drives up the cost for everyone), they also stalled the economic recovery in tangible ways. They are worse than rock throwers and vandals.


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RE: God Bless them

"Posted by epiphyticlvr (My Page) on
Tue, May 1, 12 at 22:57

I was near Union Square and there were more barricades than people.

Big Papi, I would think if it happened as you claim the local news would have picked it up. They didn't. Your source seems to have stretched the truth. There were few clashes and no destruction of buildings."

Oh Really. Looks to me like the local media did a pretty good job without any contortions at all. Seattle, San Fran, Miami, Oakland, New York are all included, with destruction of buildings included also.

"As Labrea stated above there is no Old Federal Courthouse on Sixth and Spring. Your source needs to get better reporters and do some fact-checking. You should too."

Frankly, I don't care what Labrea says. See Above.

Yahoo News service has a album up with quite a few photos of your, apparently, comrades in arms. Perhaps you'd like to have a look at it.

Looks to me like someone let the spoiled brats out of timeout. Heh....even the left leaning media make them look like idiots.

Here is a link that might be useful: Occupy Pics


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RE: God Bless them

Once upon a time May 1 was a day for workers to celebrate their solidarity, now that there are not so many jobs and workers are unemployed the day takes on a different meaning. A staged riot performance well documented is designed to put any dissent down by painting all participants with the same brush. Here is an alternative picture parade.

Here is a link that might be useful: may day


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RE: God Bless them

Perhaps you are just confused by the Fox coverage. Anarchists don't support Democratic or moderate policies or Wall Street reform. Anarchists don't support Occupy - they support anarchy. They are not part of Occupy - they are coat-tail riders. No one would let them gather separately - they have to gloom on to Occupy.


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RE: God Bless them

"""""""And the Tea Party is the party that's dangerous? H@ll.....The Tea Party even picks up their own trash."

Have you noticed BP if there is even ONE person causing a disturbance of any kind at a T Party assembly the ENTIRE T Party is labeled, not just the person causing the problem. However, when it is the occupy movement and there is violence and destruction, it is "the anarchists (not the core Occupy)". The T Party, as you said, even pick up their own trash and they are still disparaged but look at the mess the occupiers have left every where they have occupied........perfectly acceptable because it was the cops fault for going in and demolishing their camps, or some other lame excuse. Don't you just love the double standards?


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They are not a "representative group" of Occupy Cleveland. They are bad people with criminal records.

There are a group of anarchists out there, Black Bloc types, who do try to cause violence and riots at protests across the world.

It would not surprise me if the Black Bloc shows up at many Occupy events, but their goal is not the same as the other protesters.


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Now we know what they mean by "leveling the playing field".

Off to work before they wake up and decide to stop me.

Hay, part of the working class.


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Good for the goose

Have you noticed BP if there is even ONE person causing a disturbance of any kind at a T Party assembly the ENTIRE T Party is labeled, not just the person causing the problem.

LB,

I look at the anarchists in the Occupy movement in the same way as the racists in the Tea Party movement.

Anarchists do not represent Occupy any more than racists represent the Tea Party. They do exist within the crowd, but their values and methods do not represent the message of the movement... for either movement.

What I observe is the in general, right wingers imply that violent anarchists are somehow intrinsic in the Occupy movement. That is not true. But I also have observed that left wingers like to imply that racists are intrinsic to the Tea Party movement. This is ALSO untrue.

I think it's time for both sides to realise that their mudflinging is unhelpful and just drives a wedge further between the two sides. Nobody likes to be linked to either these anarchists or to racists, just because they support the ideas behind a popular movement.

So if someone doesn't like being tied to violent anarchists, maybe they should think twice about participating the next time a thread starts linking Tea Partiers to racists, and vice versa. Participation in this thread means the next time a Republican candidate gets a Tea Party thumbs up then is tied to racists, it would be hypocritical to complain.

Maybe something for everyone to think about.


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CNN says it fizzled also terrible economic loss. Same folks Yawn when confronted with corporate criminals as Nik would say nothing to see here move along!

Here is a link that might be useful: Fizzle


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As always, the voice of reason HG...thanks.


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You are absolutely correct, HG. Thank you for posting what should be obvious to all but rarely is.


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Frankly, I don't care what Labrea says.

You may not care but I and others do since he corrected the erroneous information that you posted.

The protesters moved down the street in a destructive swath, breaking out windows at businesses and buildings on the way, including the old federal courthouse at Sixth Avenue and Spring Street, .

There is no old courthouse on 6th and Spring - never was. It makes me wonder what else they reported that was baseless. You should care if the information you are being fed is factual or not.


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Apperently in Seattle or wherever he was writing about there is a Spring & 6th with a court house.


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I agree HG

"""""""Anarchists do not represent Occupy any more than racists represent the Tea Party. They do exist within the crowd, but their values and methods do not represent the message of the movement... for either movement."

I agree with the above statement HG, however, there are many who don't; quite a few right here on HT.......thus my post. I am a conservative and many on this forum group conservative all together which is an erroneous attitude. Conservatives run the spectrum from one extreme to the other just as liberals do. I am an individual first and foremost and have always followed my own principals regardless of the majority's leadings. I am more conservative than some in some areas and less conservative than some in others just as the majority of conservatives on HT are and just as I am sure the liberals are liberal to varying degrees. Some here on HT though have such a hatred of "conservatives" that it makes no difference to them...........a conservative is a conservative. They don't even realize that their deep seated hatred, constantly eating away at them makes them worse than the worst conservative.

"""""""Participation in this thread means the next time a Republican candidate gets a Tea Party thumbs up then is tied to racists, it would be hypocritical to complain.

Possibly, but I bet your post does nothing to slow the practice down on HT. Those few haters on HT are so full of vitriol and maliciousness they have to get rid of it somewhere and where better than a forum from which they don't actually have to face anyone; just discharge their hatred and nasty remarks and run


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Some here on HT though have such a hatred of "conservatives" that it makes no difference to them...........a conservative is a conservative. Never the other way round as long as your being so fair and all?


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I wouldn't know since i do nto open BigPP's links.


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"What I observe is the in general, right wingers imply that violent anarchists are somehow intrinsic in the Occupy movement."

Right wingers don't have to "imply" anything. It's out there for all to see. Thugs, otherwise known as anarchists, squat wherever they please, take over private property, and produce nothing but demands and chaos. They amass to disrupt the lawful activities of others, and to appropriate the resources of the community for their own purposes.

Rational, law abiding people work within our system. They don't form mobs. They don't engage in clashes with the police. They don't demand free college, nutty schemes like "debt forgiveness," and opening American borders to terrorists and impoverished "migrants." Those are the ideas of radicals...the very backbone of the "occupy" movement.

FTA: "The Left: After a day of mayhem, Occupy protesters have shown themselves to be little more than a dangerous mob. Democrats coddle them even as their outrages escalate. Criminal behavior has no place in a democracy."

FTA: "But instead of peacefully assembling to present their dog's breakfast of causes from hating capitalism, to amnesty for illegal aliens, to halting foreclosures they descended into violence and criminality that can only mean worse to come."

When Occupy began, I said I hoped they would stick around until November 2012. I hoped the electorate would see them for who they are, and remember who they support at election time. And it appears that is exactly what is going to happen. The folks Nancy Pelosi and Democrats praised are still around, and are going to be right out in front, pushing for those Democrat "ideals" so dear to the left. This is so cool!

Here is a link that might be useful: Occupy Mobsters


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Right wingers don't have to "imply" anything. It's out there for all to see. Thugs, otherwise known as anarchists, squat wherever they please, take over private property, and produce nothing but demands and chaos.

And the next time the same type of far reaching logic is used to show how Republicans and/or Tea Partiers are racists, you will accept that as truth?


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RE: God Bless them

"Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Wed, May 2, 12 at 10:34

Apparently in Seattle or wherever he was writing about there is a Spring & 6th with a court house."

Psstttt.....Don't tell Hamilton.
____________________________________________________________

"Posted by epiphyticlvr (My Page) on
Wed, May 2, 12 at 11:42

I wouldn't know since i do nto open BigPP's links."

"One thing the article mentions that I notice here, is that Dems tend to have difficulty accepting people and views they don't agree with."

No truer words.

Or even opening links supplied by people that don't follow his philosophy in lockstep on HT.........

(*snort* Hey Epi...... maybe Labrea will re post the link so that you can open it.)

______________________________________________________________________ _

"Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Wed, May 2, 12 at 11:12

Some here on HT though have such a hatred of "conservatives" that it makes no difference to them...........a conservative is a conservative. Never the other way round as long as your being so fair and all?"

True...Labrea...(Cripes and LOL, I can't believe I just agreed with something you said.) BUT, A wide majority that engage in this kind of behavior originates from your side of the aisle.


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Yes the rest are just play kick me.


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Yes, I would agree. God Bless them and our country. The occupy movement has nothing in common with the astro turf tea party movement which is the republican party.

Nik, you post is so outside of our history, it is boggling.

History shows that American political activism has never been limited to the form that it conventionally takes today electoral politics. Citizens have historically employed an array of tools to influence public policy; non-electoral forms of political participation have been especially necessary, given restrictions imposed on so many citizens' voting rights for so much of American history. See Alexander Keyssar's magisterial treatment, The Right to Vote: The Contested History of Democracy in America (Oxford, 2009), for more on the advent of universal voting rights in the United States.

Democracy, true democracy with a lowercase d is messy and not perfect. It looks like OWS, not like the lock-step Koch owned tea party.

From New York:


Passed by the General Assembly at Occupy Wall Street. November 10, 2011
and passed revision by the General Assembly at Occupy Wall Street, March 3, 2012

Occupy Wall Street is a peoples movement. It is party-less, leaderless, by the people and for the people. It is not a business, a political party, an advertising campaign or a brand. It is not for sale.

We welcome all, who, in good faith, petition for a redress of grievances through non-violence. We provide a forum for peaceful assembly of individuals to engage in participatory democracy. We welcome dissent.

Any statement or declaration not released through the General Assembly and made public online at www.nycga.net should be considered independent of Occupy Wall Street.

We wish to clarify that Occupy Wall Street is not and never has been affiliated with any established political party, candidate or organization. Our only affiliation is with the people.

The people who are working together to create this movement are its sole and mutual caretakers. If you have chosen to devote resources to building this movement, especially your time and labor, then it is yours.

Any organization is welcome to support us with the knowledge that doing so will mean questioning your own institutional frameworks of work and hierarchy and integrating our principles into your modes of action.

SPEAK WITH US, NOT FOR US.

Occupy Wall Street values collective resources, dignity, integrity and autonomy above money. We have not made endorsements. All donations are accepted anonymously and are transparently allocated via consensus by the General Assembly or the Operational Spokes Council.

We acknowledge the existence of professional activists who work to make our world a better place. If you are representing, or being compensated by an independent source while participating in our process, please disclose your affiliation at the outset. Those seeking to capitalize on this movement or undermine it by appropriating its message or symbols are not a part of Occupy Wall Street.

We stand in solidarity.

Try and discredit all you want, point your finger, call them dirty...but in doing so you discredit our founders and all that makes our country what it is...

Ignore or dismiss at your peril, the French did and they got handed their heads. Just sayin.


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Will the real Occupier please stand up.
Poll at Zucotti

"Our research shows clearly that the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.

Seems like only yesterday that we were talking Revolution on this forum.

And don't forget two of our prominent forum members.

Hay


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Stalin's Useful Idiots

We have both kinds. The violent and...

Stalin's Useful Idiots

Hay


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Really?

Quoting a "poll" by Murdoch's Wall Street Journal...why do some choose to keep the blinders on is beyond me. Ignorance is a choice and this one is so obvious.


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Good enough for Bill\

Good enough for Bill. Good enough for me.

"Mr. Schoen, who served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton, is author of....

Back to the salt mines for me.

Bye.

Hay


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Useful idiot

Not sure about the "useful" part but the description describes exactly what you are doing by using the journal as your source. Propaganda. Wow. Yes, a useful tool for them.

So transparant.


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I really do belong to the working class. Real working, not a figurative one.

Wave to me if you see me walking down Sixth Avenue!!

hAY


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I'll be hanging around the jockeys smoking a butt in front of '21' Club.


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Get a room you two.


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Will the real occupier please stand up? True what I saw in front of 1 building on Broadway was a bunch of union plumbers protesting a company that isn't using union labor, several blocks away the tin can banger's with the little cardboard signs (well meaning youth with time on their hands) I didn't see any of the more well organized mayhem makers the anarchists who wear masks or mark their faces up to thwart facial recognition programs on all the lower Manhattan cams.
I didn't see any of the debt equals slavery flags either they are an interesting crew part libertarian economic anarchists who want to not honor any debt. (PFFFT mostly student debt from what I gather)
I support their right of free speech but they interest me about as much as the tea party did. (not at all)
Somethings kicking in the political womb and it may be a hybrid of the 2 elements from tea & Occupy. An economic nativism would be a bit naive theres no going back from a Global Economy till at least the chinese Real Estate Bubble bursts!


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Get a room

More like 'round one is over' and 'back to your corners.'

Here Maggie, some cool, fresh water for you. I think I see a weakness you can exploit in round two...


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yup

More like 'round one is over' and 'back to your corners.'

LOL! You're right. ;)


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Change

I support their right of free speech but they interest me about as much as the tea party did. (not at all)
Somethings kicking in the political womb and it may be a hybrid of the 2 elements from tea & Occupy.

Labrea, I believe you may be right.

It's obvious that the people feel that change is needed, these movements are both a result of that desire for a change. But it seems that for most, neither movement is satisfying what is needed.

Your current president ran on a platform of change. Has he satisfied that need? It doesn't seem so, people are still searching for the solution. Will Romney be able to satisfy that need? Highly doubtful.

"Something is kicking in the political womb"... sometimes I love the manner in which you express yourself. You couldn't choose any better words to describe it.

There IS a change coming. A drastic change will be needed if you don't want to face either a complete collapse or a revolution. The question is... what will that change be?


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////RE: God Bless them

"Mr. Schoen, who served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton, is author of....

I know your not that simple. Mr. Shoen is nothing more than a paid pollster, paid to deliver the right message..."useful idiot". he also ran around town with Dick Morris and is a Fox News political anaylyst.

The change is getting the money out of politics. No president only will achieve this. President Obama has said this all along. First Citizens United.

The Tea Party is either dead or it is the republican party - whichever way you look at it. As of yet, Occupy has not be co-opted, not to say it won't happen but it hasn't yet. They have effected change already, yet to be seen where it goes.

Change won't come to those who wait for it...be the change you want to see.

Wasn't that long ago '21' Club did'nt allow women. Then when they did you better be in a skirt or you would be turned away. Not that long ago that Clinton's love of the pant suit made news. They still sit women in "Siberia" unless they are with an appropriate looking male.

Change comes slow.


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"And the next time the same type of far reaching logic is used to show how Republicans and/or Tea Partiers are racists, you will accept that as truth?"

No need. Nut job racists stand right out in a Republican crowd. Nut job anarchists blend right in with Democrats.

When we see lawbreakers squatting wherever they please, taking over private property and producing nothing but demands, we expect grown ups to condemn that behavior regardless of their political affiliation.

"Nik, you post is so outside of our history, it is boggling."

The Occupy movement has a very short history. I'm sticking with what we can all observe, including the Democrats' ongoing embrace of chaotic "protests" and lawlessness. What looks like "democracy" to you looks like anarchy to me. I just hope these people get the attention they deserve.

Looks like some high ranking Democrats are pleased.

FTA: "A staffer for President Barack Obamas Department of Homeland Security is praising the left-wing "May Day" protests. On Tuesday evening, Nate Snyder, the special adviser to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano for "Community Partnership and Strategic Engagement," tweeted "Happy May Day! #solidarity."

Snyder has his his current Homeland Security post since March 2011, according to his LinkedIn page. He was previously the departments Deputy White House Liaison. Before joining the Obama administration, Snyder worked for the Service Employees International Union, and for Obamas 2008 presidential campaign.""

Carry on.

Here is a link that might be useful: May Day protesters praised by DHS special adviser


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"Nut job racists stand right out in a Republican crowd"

I agree with that statement, the nut jobs do. However the more subtle racists....not so much. They blend in very, very well.


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RE: God Bless them

Nik, your deceit is getting worse by the day. May 1 has long been recognized as International Workers Day.

Going after an gov official for that simple tweet and then the heaping mass of bs in your link about 'anti-capitalism' etc is lies made of whole cloth.

How do you sleep. One think to have different opionions but promoting endless lies and picking out peoples speech over and over is like your own form of McCarthism.

If you take your post literally, than one would be lead to believe you are anti-democracy and free speech.


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Maggie's right , Nik. May 1st (Mayday) has always been International Workers day with demonstrations and celebrations. You diss Napolitano because she tweeted " Happy May day"???

As for the racists in the Tea party crowds. The more in your face radical ones stand out because they want to: the quieter ones are the ones to be afraid of.


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RE: God Bless them

If you take your post literally, than one would be lead to believe you are anti-democracy and free speech.

You mean nik is pro-democracy and pro free speech? Huh, who knew?


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Nut job anarchists blend right in with Democrats.It's foolish statements like that Nik that detract from any amount of credibility you may at least hope for you remember hope?


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RE: God Bless them

Our Unite Against the War on Women rally in Seatlly, the same place where those anarchists destroyed property, was attended by about 500 men, women and children. It was a great rally and the Park Police said it was the best one they had seen in a long time. The Park Police estimated 1,000 in attendance, but I think that was more than the number of people there. We got a write up in the Seattle Weekly, and 15 seconds on one local TV station, although we put out press releases to all local media.

I guess, if we wanted more wide-spread coverage, we should have invited anarchists to destroy property.
The media only covers stuff that bleeds or makes people upset. When DH and I were in D.C., with 200,000 other people to protest the Iraq War in 2005, NOT ONE TV network was there to cover it (except C-SPAN). Hurricane Rita was happening that weekend and I guess the media can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

So, although the would-be bombers in Ohio and the anarchists in a few cities were not associated with the OWS movement, and few in number, proportionately, compared to the actual protesters, that's what the media, and certain people here, concentrate on. Not the messages being portrayed by the workers and OWS. Not the messages given across the nation by thousands of people about how they are fed up and mobilizing to fight the war on women.

If it bleeds, it leads. And, judging by some of these posts, that's what sells papers and TV ad times.


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RE: God Bless them

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, May 2, 12 at 18:55

Not the messages and therefore not the problems.


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RE: God Bless them

Newty got it right when he said "Stop whining, take a bath & get a job".
OWS prides itself in having No Leadership, No Program and No Organization. How's that working?
Whatever their message might be, it is overshadowed by their unlawful tactics of trespassing and fouling our cities and college campuses, costing them alot of cleanup money and making alot of new enemies. They leave themselves vulnerable to anarchists & other criminals invading their ranks because anyone with a grievance hollers OCCUPY.
So they don't like the major political parties, who are they supporting during this election year? Do they have an alternative candidate? Have they presented any viable alternatives to the hundreds of grievances that they identified?
Disjointed and uncoordinated, my impression is that they are more interested in making a display than effecting change. They've gotta do more than demonstrate how anti-establishment they are.


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RE: God Bless them

Read the link tell me what you think about this crew. Seriously read their views a little bit libertarian, a little bt cracked a touch of the tea party & quite frankly they give me the creeps. The New American Regeneration Party they border on the anarcho capitalist line which are just anarchists with Cash.

Here is a link that might be useful: booh


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RE: God Bless them

The process of birth is an evolution, not a revolution. you are right about that Labrea, the beginning is near.

Nothing will stop an idea that has come.

End corporate personhood to start.


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RE: God Bless them

Sad to say I strongly doubt it even the most liberal Jurists on The Supreme Court come off as Corporatists.
Citing the recent Nigerian attempt to bring suit against Chevron.

"The United States Supreme Court on Monday declined to take up an appeal by 19 Nigerians seeking to invoke a US anti-torture law to sue oil giant, Chevron, over deaths in the Niger Delta.
The decision by the top US court not to intervene followed its unanimous finding last week that the law, the Torture Victim Protection Act only allowed lawsuits against individuals, not corporations or organizations."
Corporations are not individuals accept when they are campaign donors splitting hairs here.

Anyway something is shifting it's not Republicans & it's not the Democrats


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RE: God Bless them

Yeah, lost on Bowoto v Chevron too, the Niger Delta is the nuclear bomb of oil firm lawsuits -- US justices seem reluctant to let another Texaco v Ecuador case happen anywhere, much less where the IOCs could be hit with $100 billion dollar settlements to Nigerian communities.

Here is a link that might be useful: bowoto v chevron


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""""""""""Never the other way round as long as your being so fair and all?"
Pick one phrase and base your entire assumption on it. I believe I made it very clear in my post that "Conservatives run the spectrum from one extreme to the other just as liberals"and "just as I am sure the liberals are liberal to varying degrees" As for the "hatred" of conservatives displayed on the forum if you aren't guilty why bother replying? You aren't one of the people I was thinking about when I posted this but if you consider yourself in that group just let me know so I will include you next time. If you feel there is "actual hatred" directed toward liberals by some here rather than a strong difference of beliefs and opinions then address it. I'm sure you understand that there is a big distinction in having strong differing of beliefs and opinions and outright hatred.

"""""""""As for the racists in the Tea party crowds. The more in your face radical ones stand out because they want to: the quieter ones are the ones to be afraid of. "

And exactly how do you distinguish the quiet racist from those who aren't lily? Oh, I forgot; according to you in more than one post all T Party members are racists. Yep, that's one way to tell the difference.

""""""""""""""""Anarchists do not represent Occupy any more than racists represent the Tea Party. They do exist within the crowd, but their values and methods do not represent the message of the movement... for either movement."

I agreed with this statement yesterday but something came up that made me rethink it. I'm sure in the initial days of OWS violence and destruction was not endorsed by the majority of people in the group. Every protest by OWS however seems to show a little more subversion of their original intentions and violence and property destruction is becoming a common occurrence.

""""""""""""""'As of yet, Occupy has not be co-opted, not to say it won't happen but it hasn't yet.

I have never backed the OWS; just considered them a bunch of "old hippies" who want to get back in the game but as they continue to reveal themselves it appears that a new group/goal has taken charge. There is more and more violence in the protests and some who back the OWS have nothing to say against it, almost condoning it. If the OWS wants to be considered a valid group, out to make needed changes they need to start within their own ranks.


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RE: God Bless them

I have never backed the OWS; just considered them a bunch of "old hippies" who want to get back in the game

*

Actually, that characterization fits more than one scenario.

Explains a lot of wasted time.


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RE: God Bless them

Hear ya, Labrea but nothing ever changes if everybody has a defeatest attitude.

It takes a youth movement to believe and have the audacity of hope.

Change won't knock on your door, you must make it.

I don't know what people have against a people's movement. It is a good thing. Our system is so out of whack.

It is all about balance.


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RE: God Bless them

Go back and read your history books carefully, e.g. during the 1700's, right on up to the 1960's. It is an American tradition to protest what is considered injustice.

"I don't know what people have against a people's movement. It is a good thing." I agree, Maggie.


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RE: God Bless them

"Go back and read your history books carefully, e.g. during the 1700's, right on up to the 1960's. It is an American tradition to protest what is considered injustice.
"I don't know what people have against a people's movement. It is a good thing." I agree, Maggie."

While you're reading about history, check out the Russkies and the Chinese. People's movements supreme. Good things.

Mao, Stalin, Castro, Chavez, Che.....

Sounds good in an ideal world. In reality, maybe not.

Hay


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RE:/ God Bless them

I am not speaking of the other cultures of Russia and China. I am speaking of the American tradition that derives from forefathers in England, specifically those who under Cromwell went against the Monarch. Our culture cannot be compared to the traditions and cultures of China and Russia. (much different values, going back for centuries).


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RE: God Bless them

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick there Hay.

The democratic citizen, on whose vote the legitimacy of the entire political mechanism rests, is called upon to reason using his own brain (and to vote in solitude and as an individual), and associate with others to exchange information and opinions, to change his or her mind and then change it again, if necessary. Dissent is a constitutive virtue of democracy. Rather than corroding social ideals, as authoritarians and conservatives believe, it strengthens partiality and cooperation between citizens. Dissent reveals a fundamental loyalty to a country, a society or a community.

Nadia Urbinati

Here is a link that might be useful: more


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RE: God Bless them

"The democratic citizen, on whose vote the legitimacy of the entire political mechanism rests, is called upon to reason using his own brain (and to vote in solitude and as an individual), and associate with others to exchange information and opinions, to change his or her mind and then change it again, if necessary.

From one of the Walton threads we learned that roughly 90 million people or so in this country, about a third, have managed to save, on average, about $774. Fact is, many people in this country have essentially no savings to speak of when they enter retirement age.

And you want me to feel that I should entrust these people to decide MY future.

I have to suffer because the vast majority of the people in this country are borderline idiots, quite literally. The best I can aim for is to limit their ability to "govern" me.

You really think this man can make good decisions about MY future?

He gets the same number of votes as I do.

Hay


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RE: God Bless them

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RE: Bless them

Reading but not comprehending Hay, unless you thank and associate with others to exchange information means associating with only some and excluding others which happens now and is the main reason for OWS. The misinformation your photo illustrates does nothing to further your argument because it shows someone who is untypical of the general population just as the so called 1% are.


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RE: God Bless them

"Posted by haydayhayday none (My Page) on
Thu, May 3, 12 at 11:19

"I have to suffer because the vast majority of the people in this country are borderline idiots, quite literally. The best I can aim for is to limit their ability to "govern" me.

Hmmmmm....too late I think.....

______________________________________________________________________ __________________

"He gets the same number of votes as I do."

No skin in the game, and gets the same voice that you or I do. What's wrong with this picture?

I wonder if this Democrat has any illegitimate children. I wonder how they'll vote, for BO do ya think?

Can say "Voting Bloc"?
______________________________________________________________________ __________________

"You really think this man can make good decisions about MY future?"

Look where his decisions have landed him to this date.

Sadly, he represents a significant portion of the Dem voters.


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RE: God Bless them

______________________________________________________________________ __________________

"He gets the same number of votes as I do."

No skin in the game, and gets the same voice that you or I do. What's wrong with this picture?

I wonder if this Democrat has any illegitimate children. I wonder how they'll vote, for BO do ya think?

Can say "Voting Bloc"?
______________________________________________________________________ __________________

"You really think this man can make good decisions about MY future?"

Look where his decisions have landed him to this date.

Sadly, he represents a significant portion of the Dem voters.

*

The world has always had givers and takers.

We know what segment is attracted to which party.


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RE: God Bless them

In my experience there are as many liberal givers as there are conservative ones...likely the same is true for takers.


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RE: them

Just a couple of examples where the call to reason using ones own brain was not answered...unless...OMG ...Demi and Hay and Papi agree after reasoning it out in their own head!


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mean and petty

Peanut Gallery Pettiness.

I can always count on it.


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))) God Bless them

Excuse me? How is my comment any more "petty" than yours. At least I wasn't disparaging a segment of society.


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RE: God Bless them

Here is a tidbit you all may or may not find interesting...according to NPR the people who broke windows in Seattle were not known to the regular Occupiers. Even stranger to them was that during the melee there were no police. The police did not show up according to the Occupiers until the 'anarchists' had done their thing and disappeared into the crowd. They are feeling set up-I cant say if that is true or not but it would not surprise me.

I would comment on Tea partiers and racism. I would have liked to hear the Tea Party leaders condemn the racists who showed up at their rallies but I dont recall anyone doing that. My personal favorite was the sock monkeys hanging from sticks...Sarah Palin ralley with heavy Tea attendence.


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RE: God Bless them

"OWS prides itself in having No Leadership, No Program and No Organization. How's that working?"

As a play group for irresponsible grownups with nothing better to do, it has been wildly successful.


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RE: God Bless them

demi - you forgot the category "keepers, mine, mine, mine, get your grubby hands off my money". And I think we know which segment of society and this forum fall into that category.


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RE: God Bless them

I know, I know....it's those people that get out and work hard for their money. Pay their taxes, give to charity, and expect their government to spend their money wisely before they come back to the trough asking for more!!! You mean those people right??


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RE: God Bless them

As a play group for irresponsible grownups with nothing better to do, it has been wildly successful.

Wrong.

You aren't aware there are quite a number of very successful, very responsible grownups that are part of OWS too?

Now you are.


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RE: God Bless them

"it's those people that get out and work hard for their money. Pay their taxes, give to charity, and expect their government to spend their money wisely before they come back to the trough asking for more!!! You mean those people right??"

Oh you mean most, if not all, of the liberal posters on this forum. I am so darn sick and tired of liberals being labeled that way.

Liberals are every bit as successful as conservatives, pay just as much in taxes, work hard, educated their kids, take personal responsibility....and do all those things you mention Mrs.

Because we feel an obligation to provide a fair and just social fabric doesn't mean we are takers. We contribute every bit as much as conservatives....every bit as much.


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RE: God Bless them

gasp..you mean you are part of that greedy, self serving group who wants to toss granny off a cliff and starve the children? Who'd a thunk it!!!


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RE: God Bless them

Lady rat no debate or assumption just a construction. An allowance for cutting either way would be a conservative position. What is presented in that line is contentious or combative. As a forum flame thrower I have no desire to do battle but merely mak the observation that a one way observation is generally ( not always ) a myopic one. Your observation being one sided makes it suspect on that account alone.


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RE: God Bless them

That was not intentional I am sitting in a hospital lounge doing this on a cell phone I apologize for the typo.


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RE: God Bless them

Another thoughtful and respectful response.....and no I most certainly am not.


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RE: God Bless them

"As a play group for irresponsible grownups with nothing better to do, it has been wildly successful."

"Wrong."

Not wrong at all. We all know about responsible grown ups participating in Occupy. We also know Occupy has successfully attracted irresponsible grown ups with nothing better to do.

What could be more irresistible to shiftless, pot smoking losers than joining a group the media loves, and getting on TV? How cool to "belong" to a group set up for the purpose of breaking laws, controlling someone elses property, and getting arrested. How affirming it must be to suddenly be credited with "doing" something "important" just by sitting outside on your butt, chanting and blocking traffic for those foolish people who have jobs and need to get to work. Imagine the intoxicating effects of being praised by Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats! I do hope these little patriots keep up the good work, maliciously attacking small businesses like they did over the weekend, and putting the focus on the evils of CAPITALISM, where it belongs.


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RE: God Bless them

gasp..you mean you are part of that greedy, self serving group who wants to toss granny off a cliff and starve the children? Who'd a thunk it!!!

No, actually you have it completely backwards. I, and lots of liberals on this forum, do everything you preach. And we do NOT want to throw granny off the cliff. That's the fundemental difference between us. I want to help those that are not as fortunate as me and I have NO PROBLEM with my tax money being used to do that. My tax money IN ADDITION to charities I also donate to. And, I understand that to help society I should be paying more taxes. And I have no problem with that, and here's the kicker -- as long as the 1% pays their fair share too.

That's my idea of a society I want to live in. And there's the difference. In your society it's every man/woman/child for themselves (well, of course your party is very interested in helping that child BEFORE it's born. Just not after).


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RE: God Bless them

No jillnnj, in my society a person can reach for the stars, can become as successful as they are willing to work hard to be. They can enjoy the fruits of their labor as well. They can pay their taxes and expect the government to spend that money wisely to help the less fortunate and the elderly. They can give millions to charities that see that the money goes to the people who need it instead of buds who kicked in for a campaign, or failed companies that can't succeed without the taxpayers money. Or pig projects that do nothing but glorify the politician that brings them home. Or government bureaucracies like GSA that believes the taxpayers money is meant for them to do with as they wish. And to pay federal employees who make far more than their equal in the private sector.


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RE: God Bless them

""""""""""As a forum flame thrower I have no desire to do battle but merely mak the observation that a one way observation is generally ( not always ) a myopic one. Your observation being one sided makes it suspect on that account alone."

Of course you have no desire to do battle. Anyone can understand that by reading your post...........as you said only making an observation.........maybe I should make sure to do battle for the liberals and conservatives on every post from now on as there is no one else on HT to stand up for the liberals or maybe you should have your vision checked, glasses changed or something as you observing is poor.

It never ceases to amaze me labea ............ you don't even know me yet you know exactly what I am thinking and what I mean regardless to what I post. Quite a gift you have there, just absolutley amazing.

Anytime anyone posts something here that doesn't march in step with the librul program it is suspect. The reality is you have no idea what I think or feel regardless to the fact that even when I post my thoughts you basically tell me that I am lying and think something totally different. I guess maybe I should have included you in the group I was speaking of as you continue to protest loudly and twist my words. You just continue with your assuming in respect to my thoughts, beliefs, etc, labea........... I'm sure you know the meaning of ASSUME, except you can just leave the ME off this time. I know who I am, what I am, what I believe and have no trouble looking in the mirror and liking what I see each day. As for your opinion, I'm, sure you also know what is said about opinions also and yours means nothing to me so rant on.


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RE: God Bless them

I see you do want to fight later!


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RE: God Bless them

You know, from the contentiousness of the libs around here, you'd think Obama had ALREADY lost the election. ;)


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RE: God Bless them

Escutcheoned goad rampant on a field of puce & green, argent, a pale vert counterchanged per fess.
Motto Non Gradus Anus Rodentum


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RE: God Bless them

But some of you here speak as if you worship at the altar of the great god, CAPITALISM. Capitalism, like any system can be flawed and allowed to run amok, if unregulated. The trick is to find the fair balance in our nation.

For myself, I would far rather come down upon the side of compassion for those less fortunate than judging and damning them, not knowing the personal history of each and every one....

If that puts me in the camp of idealist dems or progressives, so be it. I grew up in the city of M.L. King, and later worked in the Civil Rights Movement, on a small scale. That's a part of my personal history, to look for justice and truth, all the while knowing there can be many shades of gray in our culture....


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RE: God Bless them

"In your society it's every man/woman/child for themselves (well, of course your party is very interested in helping that child BEFORE it's born. Just not after).

Not so. In my society, the American people come first, and we take care of our own. That means American citizens don't have to compete with illegal aliens for jobs and benefits on their own soil. Turning Americans into second class citizens in their own country is not the kind of society Americans deserve, but it is what they will get as long as Democrats have their way.

America's poor aren't getting what they need, because Democrats are too busy worrying about taking care of people who don't belong here.


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RE: God Bless them

MrsK and nik - if what you both say is true, then can you please explain why you will vote for Romney who supports the Ryan budget. The society that is the result of that budget is not the society you describe. It is the society for the 1% and the 1% alone.


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RE: God Bless them

I'm curious how the illegal alien situation is a product of the Democrats. Did it just suddenly happen with election of President Obama?

Seems to me the problem existed during Republican tenures as well. As a matter of fact wasn't it Bush and his Republican colleagues who wanted amnesty with a path to citizenship?

Here is a link that might be useful: Amnesty under Bush


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RE: God Bless them

Thank you for pointing that out, Chase.

Bears remembering.


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RE: God Bless them

"As a matter of fact wasn't it Bush and his Republican colleagues who wanted amnesty with a path to citizenship?"

Who could forget! Bush, Democrats ad "moderate" Republicans tried to shove the nasty Kennedy/McCain/Bush amnesty scam down our throats. It wasn't what Americans wanted, and certainly wasn't in our national interest. It was a plan hatched to help everybody but ordinary Americans. Just what one would expect from the political class. It was fun watching Americans tell Bush and friends what they could do with their amnesty plans, though!


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RE: God Bless them

"Escutcheoned goad rampant on a field of puce & green, argent, a pale vert counterchanged per fess.
Motto Non Gradus Anus Rodentum
"

^5's


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RE: God Bless them

Well, "anus rodentum" looks like "rat's ass".


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reminds me of home

Well, the of the '52 Family Escutcheon is two worms rampant on a field of compost, ochre and lavender counterchanged per fess, so it kinda struck a cord.


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RE: God Bless them

elvis....I just swallowed my french fry!!!!
Now, that was just too funny.


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RE: God Bless them

Actually CW, I think it does mean: "not worth a rat's ass". Sounds almost elegant in Latin, right/


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RE: God Bless them

omgosh....someone could sweet talk me in Latin....I would be swooning..not realizing the "rats ass" was a "rats ass".

Only can speak pig-latin.


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RE: God Bless them

How about Boca Raton in English?


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RE: God Bless them

Actually Anglo-Saxon is much clearer and to the point than Latin. Joe's response to Demi would translate as 'crap' in plain English.


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RE: God Bless them

Actually Anglo-Saxon is much clearer and to the point than Latin. Joe's response to Demi would translate as 'crap' in plain English.

*

We can always depend on Joe for an erudite insult.


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RE: God Bless them

"And we do NOT want to throw granny off the cliff."

Me either! But I'm not just worried about Granny. I don't want to throw the American worker off the cliff, either. I don't think employers should be allowed to hire anyone without using e-verify. Democrats do.

I don't think American workers should have to compete for jobs against illegal aliens in their own country.
Democrats do.

I don't think Americans should have to stand in line behind illegal aliens for the benefits, services and medical care illegals get for free and without even having to give their real names. Democrats do.

I don't think Americans should have to share their roads and highways with illegal aliens who are too drunk to walk, but not too drunk to run away from the dead, dying and injured Americans left in their grisly wake every day. Democrats do.

I don't think school resources for American kids should be taken away from them and transferred to illegal aliens.
Democrats do.

I don't think college slots should be given to illegal aliens while American kids are turned away. Democrats do.

I don't think illegal aliens have as much right as American citizens and legal residents to the benefit paid for by taxpayers. Democrats do.

I don't think that our taxes need to be higher, while billions of our tax dollars are being transferred to illegal aliens without regard for their illegal and unlawful presence. Democrats do.

I don't think its my job to pay higher taxes to support poor Mexicans, while Mexico's wealthy aren't paying a cent toward the care and feeding of their own. Democrats do.

I am so looking forward to November.


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RE: God Bless them

Escutcheoned goad rampant on a field of puce & green, argent, a pale vert counterchanged per fess.
Motto Non Gradus Anus Rodentum


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RE: God Bless them

Nik, from your post, your beef seems to be against illegal immigrants. You are making assumptions about all Democrats' beliefs, and tarring Dems with the same brush. It won't work. One size does not fit all. We are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves and weighing the choices carefully. We do not march in lock-step.


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RE: God Bless them

I'm pretty sure that it was Republicans who introduced legislation allowing corporations to easily hire non Americans, not Democrats.

What is to the best advantage to corporations is what the Republicans bow to...which is why they have been the most lenient on illegal immigrants...you see they add to corporate profits.

You have the wrong enemy Nik.....Republicans love illegals, it's good for business.


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RE: God Bless them

Wow, talk about voting on a single issue.


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RE: God Bless them

Posted by jillinnj (My Page) on
Thu, May 10, 12 at 17:53

Wow, talk about voting on a single issue.

*

Jill, gays vote on a single issue.

So do others.


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Clarification

(not all of any group, of course, but I have been chastised for voting what I feel is most important to me instead of what is most important to others--they of course, don't hold themselves to a reciprocal standard).


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