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I'm Proud to be an American

Posted by elvis 4b WI (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 8:32

What do you think? Did she do it because as she said, the song is not age appropriate?

REUTERS

A Coney Island principal refused to let students sing "God Bless the USA" at a school ceremony -- but Justin Bieber's "Baby" was suitable. A controversial Coney Island principal has pulled the plug on patriotism. Her refusal to let students sing "God Bless the USA" at their graduation has sparked fireworks at a school filled with proud immigrants.

Greta Hawkins, principal of PS 90, the Edna Cohen School, won�t allow kindergartners to belt out the beloved Lee Greenwood ballad, also known as "Proud to be an American," at their moving-up ceremony.
Five classes spent months learning the patriotic song, which skyrocketed in popularity after the 9/11 attacks and the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

It was to be the rousing finale of their musical show at the June 20 commencement. The kids, dressed up for their big day, would wave tiny American flags � which, as the lyrics proclaim, "still stand for freedom."

But Hawkins marched in on a recent rehearsal and ordered a CD playing the anthem to be shut off, staffers said. She told the teachers to drop the song from the program. "We don�t want to offend other cultures," they quoted her as explaining.

The curt edict stunned both staff and parents. "A lot of people fought to move to America to live freely, so that song should be sung with a whole lot of pride," said mom Luz Lozada, whose son, Daniel, is in kindergarten.

The song has been sung at previous school events. Last year�s fifth-graders, including another Lozada child, performed it at graduation. "Everybody applauded and whistled," the mom said. "They gave it a standing ovation."

Parents � many immigrants from Pakistan, Mexico and Ecuador � "love it," Lozada said. A teacher agreed: "It makes them a little goosebumpy and teary-eyed. I�ve never come across anyone who felt it insulted their culture."

Department of Education spokeswoman Jessica Scaperotti gave The Post an explanation staffers said they never heard � that Hawkins found the lyrics "too grown up" for 5-year-olds.

The song starts: "If tomorrow all the things were gone, I�d worked for all my life. And I had to start again, with just my children and my wife, I�d thank my lucky stars, to be livin� here today." Scaperotti said the department supports the principal�s decision. "The lyrics are not age-appropriate," she said.

But Justin Bieber�s flirty song about teen romance, "Baby," was deemed a fine selection for the show. Hawkins had no problem with 5-year-olds singing lines such as, "Are we an item? Girl, quit playing."

The other songs: "We�re All Together Again," popular at Scout campfires; "The World is a Rainbow," which celebrates diversity; "Shake Your Sillies Out" by Raffi; and "You�ve Got a Friend in Me" from "Toy Story."

Scaperotti noted PS 90 kids recite the Pledge of Allegiance and sing "America the Beautiful" each morning. Insiders say Hawkins tried to end that tradition a couple years ago but staff objected.

The principal, a Jehovah�s Witness, does not recite the pledge because her religion forbids followers to salute any nation�s flag. Staffers gripe she doesn�t stand in respect during the school-wide ritual. The song uproar comes amid tensions. Hawkins has been called a tyrant and bully by some staffers. The DOE reprimanded her in 2010 after teachers complained she called the school "racist" and declared: "I�m black. Your previous principal was white and Jewish. More of us are coming." Scaperotti said Hawkins is being targeted by the teachers union and has received hate mail, which is under investigation by the NYPD.

susan.edelman@nypost.com


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/school_silences_patriotic_song_xdunXcLPbE8S2rAEcZoUiP#ixzz1xOPHHaJK


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

My feeling about this incident
-I do not agree with her choice of alternate song
-I see her point
-I do not agree with her point.

She is trying to invoke her belief on the school from what I have read about this incident. Sort of like Conservative of Austerity, and Abortion.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 9:52

She is trying to invoke her belief on the school

.... :)


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"We don�t want to offend other cultures,"

If pride for country offends someone, maybe they should be some place else where they'd be more comfortable. Sorry-- one more I'm strong minded about.

Years ago, we had several Witnesses working for our company, one of which I was good friends with, and we had "heated" debates about this. Keeping in mind, I was 2 years fresh out of the Navy, and in fact, my reserve time had just expired at this point, he said there was no way he could enlist because there was no way he was going to salute any man, and certainly not render any kind of honors to the flag. We ended up agreeing to disagree about it.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

There are many ways to show pride for one's country.
Singing a sentimental , simplistic song is one rather shallow way to do that. what it accomplishes is rather self serving. Makes the singer feel good.
I find this obsession with all these shallow symbolic gestures hard to understand. I suspect it is because I missed the indoctrination in grade school.
I prefer showing pride in one's country by actually getting out there and doing something to make the country a better place.


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I'd like to read something about the incident that wasn't so sensationally reported.

But hey, it will have the desired effect of getting passed all around the internet and email lists, it will be reported on FOX and be talked about incessantly on right wing radio, some enterprising soul will find the principals' home address and phone numbers and she will receive constant harassment and death threats, and she'll likely be fired due to all this pressure.

And I bet we'll never hear her side of it, which - from past experience - might turn out to be perfectly logical and justified and have nothing to do with what was reported by the NY Post.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I find this obsession with all these shallow symbolic gestures hard to understand.

You mean like slapping one of these babies on your car?

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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Exactly!

Gun rack in the back window optional.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

What do you think? Did she do it because as she said, the song is not age appropriate?

How ridiculous to ask strangers who don't know this womnan to tell you why she did what she did. No one knows her or anything about her to give any informed opinion. Only what they read in your short blurb.

Another thread posted just to stir the pot.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

The issue is for the local school district, and a less than tepid topic for this forum.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Reportedly, the teacher did say she felt the song was not age appropriate. But that doesn't jive with the fact that she's allowing the Bieber song.

She also reportedly said that she didn't want to offend other cultures, which is the part I have a problem with. We are in the U.S., in a public school, and the song concerns pride in being an American.

It will be interesting to hear what else she has to say about this.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

" "We don't want to offend other cultures,"

Not sure what is meant by " other cultures". Americans are from many, many different cultures. If the intent was not to offend non American citizens, and the school had a large number of immigrant students who could not say they were Americans YET, then I see her point.

The lyrics infer citizenship....what about just singing a song about the beauty of America without tying it to citizenship ?


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"Did she do it because as she said, the song is not age appropriate?"

Nope. The song is a celebration of American freedom, and honors those who died defending it. Going to war conflicts with her religious beliefs.


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chloe45 wrote Singing a sentimental, simplistic song is one rather shallow way to do that, what it accomplishes is rather self serving.... I missed the indoctrination in grade school.
Hi Chloe, now that you are no longer in grade school I'm gonna do my best to help you catch up. Search for Marian Anderson's 1939 verson of My Country 'tis of Thee
also Whitney Houston's 1991 version of The Star Spangled Banner
I challenge you to watch/listen to either of these without changing your mind.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

This particular song is sappy , sentimental garbage.
Seems to really appeal to people on the right.
I won't listen to it.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 13:42

....conflicts with her religious beliefs

Which is why I believe religion has no place in our public schools.

This whole thread is filled with irony, this is what happens when religion and secular education are mixed. They are like oil and water.

And yet there are some on this forum that would have the two go hand in hand ... or is it only "your" (collective your) religion you would have taught?


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The parents of a second grade student at Fresno's Hamilton Elementary School are launching a crusade for the administration to tear down some student art.

In the entrance of the California school, a series of 'help wanted' posters are displayed, which were made by students learning about The Crusades, a series of Christian religious wars.

In one poster, Jesus points at the viewer like Uncle Sam and demands 'I want you to kill all infidels.'

And one family from the area says the poster depicting Jesus is more than just a history lesson - it's sacrilege.

'The picture itself I feel goes against everything Christianity stands for,' said an angry Christopher Alfaro to ABC.

He and his wife have been complaining about the poster since March but school officials rebuffed their outcry.

'[They] said something along the lines of "I'll see what I can do," and then hung up the phone,' he said. 'It's kinda driving us nuts and we want to get rid of it.'

In the picture, a long-haired man with a Jesus name tag points at the viewer. The caption reads 'I want you to kill all infidels' above the phrases 'Meet me in Jerusalem' and 'Get a free ticket to Heaven.'

The term 'infidel' means one without faith, no doubt learned in the vocabulary portion of the students' class on The Crusades.

During the series of holy wars, the Pope and the Catholic Church rallied soldiers to 'restore' Christianity to the lands surrounding Jerusalem, lost to invaders in previous centuries.

Those soldiers killed in battle against the largely Muslim population were granted an indulgence, or a 'ticket to heaven,' in exchange for their lives.
Susan Bedi, a spokesperson for the Fresno Unified District, released a statement in defense of the artwork.

'Students at Hamilton were assigned to create a help wanted poster for soldiers needed to fight in the crusades and write a poem about Joan of arc, the Black Death, or the Magna Carta and create a visual background for it. This was one of several posters displayed,' she said.

During the series of holy wars, the Pope and the Catholic Church rallied soldiers to 'restore' Christianity to the lands surrounding Jerusalem, lost to invaders in previous centuries.

Those soldiers killed in battle against the largely Muslim population were granted an indulgence, or a 'ticket to heaven,' in exchange for their lives.

Here is a link that might be useful: OMG OMG OMG !!!!!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Reportedly, the teacher did say she felt the song was not age appropriate.

The teacher did not say that. A Dept of Ed rep did.

If you are going to start a thread on this nonsense then at least get your facts straight.

This whole thread is filled with irony, this is what happens when religion and secular education are mixed. They are like oil and water.

And yet there are some on this forum that would have the two go hand in hand ... or is it only "your" (collective your) religion you would have taught?

Ironic indeed

All this fuss over that insipid ditty is ridiculous. Not even worth an ODJ.


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I love that 7th inning stretch Yankees play God Bless America when we used to go to the stadium it was a great moment for a moment where without the aid of mind altering substances the mind of many were altered for a few moments. Some call it jingoism & i bet it could turn into that but it doesn't have to. It's a simple time where often bristly & often contentious fiercely independent folks say WE ARE...nice, simple a very real experience that some folks might have a hard time opening up to.
Hey & I'm not a theist & have no problem with the sentiment of the Irving Berlin ditty.
It was required singing in the anti Nazi anti isolationist gatherings of the late 30's & very early 40's.
when the segue was added

“While the storm clouds gather far across the sea, let us swear allegiance to a land that’s free. Let us all be grateful for a land so fair, as we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.”

Ronan Tynan sings that version when he performs it at Yankee Stadium & he has performed it that way there often.

The song is the expression of an immigrant Berlins mother God Bless America it was not a common expression in the US before Kate Smith made the song popular.
Even Leopold Stokowski said the song had simple dignity....I think he got it right.


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Greenwood's "Proud to be an American," is a horrendous piece of music that has become a kind of an anthem for that certain group of individuals in the yokel sector.

I mean, really - every decade or so, let's pick some hapless, backwoods country to blow up just because we can. Then write ultranationalistic songs.

Contralto Marian Anderson's singing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial would melt the stoniest of hearts.


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Posted by epiphyticlvr (My Page) on Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 14:52

All this fuss over that insipid ditty is ridiculous. Not even worth an ODJ.
...........................................................
Insipid ditty to one.........Words of praise for country and love of country for another.

Thats called freedom. I love that "insipid song" and any song that salutes our America.

I pray the day never comes when praising our America is banished nation wide.

But, I'm just simple that way and a flag waver.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

How about "America" from West Side Story? Balanced it is.

Life can be bright in America
If you can fight in America
Life is all right in America
If you're all white in America

Here you are free and you have pride
Long as you stay on your own side
Free to be anything you choose
Free to wait tables and shine shoes


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For many newly immigrated families, the song invokes pride and a feel good moment, as Ms Lozado stated. The kids have been practicing for months and I'm sure they're confused as to why the change. The principal made a mountain out of a molehill.


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Never heard that one before Nancy.....ugly isn't it.
Songs like that are better kept for use in the outhouse.

I don't think thats what we had in mind.


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"The teacher did not say that. A Dept of Ed rep did."

Epi, I stand corrected in that The Post reported "spokeswoman Jessica Scaperotti gave The Post an explanation staffers said they never heard � that Hawkins found the lyrics "too grown up" for 5-year-olds."

Instead of Hawkins, the teacher, reportedly saying that, it was the spokewperson reportedly saying that.


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Balanced is right Nancy - the real and the imagined.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Never heard that one before Nancy.

Really? You haven't heard of the Capulets and the Montagues, and Leonard Bernstein's reinterpretation?

Jerome Robbins, Rita Moreno, and George Chakiris: America. Enjoy!


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This song and they way it and the ribbons made in China were portrayed remind me of an incident a few days after 9/11. I parked my car a few blocks away from the ferry and started toward the ferry to cross the Sound to get to my office. I was a little late and running. Passengers ride free in that direction. I was afraid I would miss the ferry and asked a man driving a pick-up, who was paying his fare, if I could ride with him to the boat. He looked at me and said, "No, no way" and sped on his way. As he drove away I saw a big U.S. flag mounted on the back of the bed of his truck. What a patriot.

I did make the boat, very out of breath.


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Nancy...I never saw West Side Story..thanks for posting a snippet.
My interpretation....the women were thrilled and thankful to have better. Washing machines , a better life than previous etc.

The guys were complainers and wanted it ALL now! Expecting a free ride maybe?

Fresh off the boat and blasting our country.
That never sits well with me.
Guess I would have to see the whole picture to get the whole picture huh?


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I love that "insipid song" and any song that salutes our America.

That's what makes America great CW. You can love it and I can find it insipid. I agree with Duluth, it is a horrendous piece of music.

There are lovely songs that salute our country, that is not one I find inspiring.

Never heard that one before Nancy.....ugly isn't it.
Songs like that are better kept for use in the outhouse.

Ironic and funny hearing CW call Bernstein/Sondheim songs ugly.


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Never saw "West Side Story" on Broadway, but did see the movie a couple of times. Believe I deepened the grooves on the recording, too.

Was going to say something about Bruce Springsteen and his "Born in the USA", but somehow discretion is the better part of valor. He's got too many millions and millions of fans, so I'm the odd one out there.


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How about "Born in East L.A." by Cheech Marin or "Coming to America" by Neil Diamond all about happy immigrants.

But then let us not forget how immigrants were treated in the first place.

"The land is sacred. These words are at the core of our being. The land is our mother, the rivers our blood. Take our land away and we die. That is, the Indian in us dies."

Mary Brave Bird, Brule Lakota

"The path to glory is rough, and many gloomy hours obscure it. May the Great Spirit shed light on your path, so that you may never experience the humility that the power of the American government has reduced me to. This is the wish of a man who, in his native forests, was once as proud and bold as yourself."

Black Hawk, Sauk

"The time will soon be here when my grandchild will long for the cry of a loon, the flash of a salmon, the whisper of spruce needles, or the screech of an eagle. But he will not make friends with any of these creatures and when his heart aches with longing he will curse me. Have I done all to keep the air fresh? Have I cared enough about the water? Have I left the eagle to soar in freedom? Have I done everything I could to earn my grandchild's fondness?"

Chief Dan George, Tsleil-Waututh Nation

"The white man, who possesses this whole vast country from sea to sea, who roams over it at pleasure and lives where he likes, cannot know the cramp we feel in this little spot, with the underlying remembrance of the fact, which you know as well as we, that every foot of what you proudly call America not very long ago belonged to the red man. The Great Spirit gave it to us. There was room for all His many tribes, and all were happy in their freedom."

Washakie, Shoshone


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Singing a sentimental , simplistic song is one rather shallow way to do that.

Yes, Chloe, there are other much more meaningful ways to show yourt patyriotism. However, one way very succinct way to show your DISDAIN for patriotism is to KEEP people from singing that shallow song. Apparently someone in authority thinks that song isn't all that shallow, and wants it struck from the program. I'll stand by my previous statement.


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Often people go through ire when not wnyting to be associated with those who would claim to be true USIANS those who use it's symbols & simple icons for the worst forms of Nativism & slefishness. It goes on here on this forum all the time that smug twirpism that refers to anyone not of their opinion as "the hate america crowd"
If I find it a smug kind of national cancer a debilitation infection that contributes nothing & seeks to exclude.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

labrea...? I didn't think anyone on this forum even came close to giving a hate America impression.

Just opinions on songs being patriotic or not or shallow or silly.

I like lemonade....another likes sweet cider.
Put on the music...pass me the drink.....wave the flag.
See....we are all fuzzy.


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Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
~Samuel Johnson

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
~Sinclair Lewis

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice -- and always has been.
~ Mark Twain's Notebook


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Loved West Side Story. Could watch that movie a dozen times. I've had the soundtrack for years. HATE God Bless the USA. It's more than insipid. It's the anthem of the tea party crowd. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.


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I'm waiting for Hannity's take on this as he is proudest American that I know...


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I just watched a bunch of 5 year olds sing God Bless America...it was precious.... especially "to the oceans white with foam".

Most choral programs I have seen include some popular music...Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber...songs the kids like along with some classic. It is adorbs.

I agree with Bill...and Nancy too! This is a good example of separation...very ironic. I actually hate that song but think she was wrong to pull if that was in the program and they practiced. Of course, it is one little story that the the right jumps on ala the war on christmas...blah blahh yes I will be looking to Hannity to get to the bottom of this. Way overblown, of course we are reading it in the sensationalized NY Post a Murdoch rag so who frickin knows the real deal...oh and I really dont' get why principals get tenure.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

CW "the hate America crowd" is in quotes for a reason it is used on this forum by some posters.
I simply offer why some may recoil from simple truthful displays of patriotism.
Kind of folks who get uncomfortable at a USA USA USA chant & hear echos of a Nuremberg rally instead.
Some folks find a red white & blue flower box hokey as USIAN but charming when visiting PARIS..a perosnla experience on that one.

Heaven for fend we go watch 4th of July fireworks lest they be confused with US military might. (huh)


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America is becoming more and more Stalinesque each day.
I'd hate to be a lowly school teacher and have my professional decisions put under the scrutiny of a nation drive to a false frenzy by Fox media.
It sounds unproductive to me.
Actually, it sounds like a country on the brink of insanity. Ten watchers for every real job, with Fox media whipping the watchers into a tizzy.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 10:27

It's truly a horrible song, truly. Besides, It's A Small World is mandatory and I don't see it on the program.

I don't think a principal should edit an already decided upon, fully rehearsed song selection without having very good reason for doing so. Smacks of authoritarianism and I'd be upset if I were the music teacher that put things together. If true it tells me the principal hasn't been doing her job. If she really walks into a "recent rehearsal" in the final days before a performance and issues a decree, not a good look. If she is that concerned she should have been part of the process in its earliest stages. Is she really a bully issuing "edicts" or is there something else going on? Hard to tell from the Post story.

Sounds fishy. Like a trumped up media creation.


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"God bless the USA" is the part that the principal doesn't like right? How bout this:
Let the offended principal go out and sit in her car during that part of the song. She can cover her ears.
Maybe she will get the msg, leave and never come back, problem solved.


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What was the credibility rating for the NY Post? 10% or something?


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One of the places I dance is very nationalistic. They make a point of playing the National Anthem before the evening starts.

Complete with the National Anthem Nazi who walks around and makes sure that you understand that you need to stand up, makes sure that you understand that you need to take off your hat.

"They hate us for our freedoms."

Hay


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God bless America!!!

Somewhere in Pennsylvania after 9/11.

They made a cross from the ruins of the World Trade Center, put a flag around it and got a bunch of motorcyclists to escort it down.

Warms my heart.

God Bless America.

My country, right or wrong!!!!

You want to know how I really feel about nationalism?

Hay


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We'll be able to look back fondly when we become a
"Stalinesque country" (per ninamarie) and suddenly find ourselves envying other countries their plumbing. If only standing for the National Anthem in dance halls (before launching into Viennese Waltzes, the Latin stylings, Fox Trots, Lindy Hops, Swing) could keep the red menace at bay. LOL!

I am patriotic as many/most. I like the 4th. of July fireworks, the national anthem, rousing Sousa marches, putting out the flag adhering to proper flag etiquette. We've got our problems and I'm free to criticize, but I'm still loyal. Many wonderful places around the world, but my heart lies here. Isn't it wonderful citizens of other countries surely feel the same about where they are.

Weep if you must listening to "God Bless the USA". It's OKAY. But respect my regard to it as the worst of jingoistic claptrap.



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Let's review the God Bless the USA lyrics, described by progessive, Obama supporting liberals as "...shallow, simplistic, self-serving, sentimental garbage, horrendous, appealing to the yokel sector, ultra-nationalistic, an insipid ditty, nativist, etc. etc. etc, ..."

God Bless The USA
by Lee Greenwood

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I'd worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I'd thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can't take that away.

And I'm proud to be an American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.

That I'm proud to be an American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

And I'm proud to be and American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

------------------------------------------------------
Liberals trash the song, but have yet to articulate what ideas or words bother them. Gratitude? Pride? Love? Defending the nation?

---------------------------------------------------------

It's not 1957, West Side Story is not much in the headlines, and America is a far different place. But our progressive friends are stuck, insisting America remains just as it was over a half century ago:

Life can be bright in America
If you can fight in America
Life is all right in America
If you're all white in America

Here you are free and you have pride
Long as you stay on your own side
Free to be anything you choose
Free to wait tables and shine shoes
--------------------------------------------------------

Since 1957, the world, the United States, and millions of grateful immigrants have moved on. Determination and demographics continue to shrink once mighty barriers, leaving the far left shrieking about a past beyond progressive resuscitation, and terrified Americans will vote for a future beyond progressive control.

I want to thank our resident progressives for telling us, in their own words, what they really think of America and Americans. It's a gift, the value of which is incalculable in this election year. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Obama supporters.

Please carry on. Don't leave anything out. Vent your spleens, and tell us how much you despise this nation. Do it!


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There's the author of "the hate America crowd" quote now reportage as usual in error.
Blanket statements about liberals as usual.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 13:01

It's just a bad song.

Nik, if I presented you with a Star Spangled turd would it be "unAmerican" for you to go "ewww..."?


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Considering that song has been described on this thread as "sappy," "sentimental," "horrendous," "horrible" and "insipid" while a song trashing this country from over sixty years ago is lauded, those facts just confirm that some people aren't happy unless they're trashing this country, and don't like people that are proud of it.

Well, at least you elected a president who agrees with that thinking. And apparently, up until the time that her husband was elected, his wife.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 13:14

Blanket statements about liberals as usual.

....took the words right off my keyboard :)


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

while a song trashing this country from over sixty years ago is lauded

Another one that doesn't know - or understand - the lyrics to West Side Story's "America."


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Nancy, it's just a total comprehension problem that prevents some from understanding the lyrics to West Side Story's "America".

total comprehension problem and living in a dream world that would have anyone think that the Immigrants don't have the same/similar problems today as they did when West Side Story was first performed on stage and then made into a movie.

But those "rose colored glasses", that I'm better than everyone else attitude that permeates this country today, well they are no different than they were in the late 50's-60's when West Side Story took place.

Live near or in the inner city today, and one can and will see, life goes on, and some things never change, and the hardships of immigrants and the feelings of immigrants are no different today than then.

Those words from West Side Story's "America" ring as true today as they did back then when they were written.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Oh, I've seen West Side Story more than once, Nancy.

Just a bunch of racist punks.

Trashing America.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Now why am I not surprised by what you just stated, Demi?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I don't see any strangeness in the song, "I Want to be in America" in that it expresses the uncertain sentiments of immigrants about their former homeland and fingers the racism encountered here.

Read the words.

ANITA
Puerto Rico
My heart's devotion
Let it sink back in the ocean
Always the hurricanes blowing
Always the population growing
And the money owing
And the sunlight streaming
And the natives steaming
I like the island Manhattan
Smoke on your pipe
And put that in!
OTHERS
I like to be in America!
O.K. by me in America!
Ev'rything free in America
For a small fee in America!
ROSALIA
I like the city of San Juan.
ANITA
I know a boat you can get on.
ROSALIA
Hundreds of flowers
in full bloom.
ANITA
Hundreds of people
in each room!
ALL
Automobile in America,
Chromium steel in America,
Wire-spoke wheel in America,
Very big deal in America!
ROSALIA
I'll drive a Buick
through San Juan.
ANITA
If there's a road you
can drive on.
ROSALIA
I'll give my
cousins a free
ride.
ANITA
How you get all of
them inside?
ALL
Immigrant goes to America,
Many hellos in America;
Nobody knows in America
Puerto Rico's in America!
ROSALIA
I'll bring a T.V. to San Juan.
ANITA
If there a current to turn on!
ROSALIA
I'll give them new
washing machine.
ANITA
What have they got
there to keep clean?
ALL
I like the shores of America!
Comfort is yours in America!
Knobs on the doors in America,
Wall-to-wall
floors in America!
ROSALIA
When I will go back
to San Juan.
ANITA
When you will shut up
and get gone?
ROSALIA
Everyone there will
give big cheer!
ANITA
Everyone there will
have moved here!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Oh, good grief I can't have a little fun with you all.

I'm a bottom line person.

Musical theatre aside, anyone that is born in or comes to this country with their health and intellect intact can be as successful as they choose to be.

That still holds true.

Turf wars aren't romantic in my view, Maria or no Maria.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

It says a lot that West Side Story is still as relevant today as it was in the decades since it was on Broadway and the movies. One of the classics.

While I'm one who likes our National Anthem and wouldn't want it changed because it's difficult to sing, I also almost tear up at God Bless America, and this Land is your land, and particularly America the Beautiful, I dislike God Bless the USA. I also hate when crowds chant USA at events and moments like when Bin Laden was killed. It boasts of superiority, and we are NOT superior to other countries. I'd probably think we were the Ugly Americans if I lived in another country. It's no wonder all the tea baggers and Hannity love the rabble rousing God Bless the USA.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

That the original idea for West side story was to be about a Jewish boy & a Catholic girl on the Lower East side. The the the same idea conflict with nativism, assimilation (which is not the same as patriotism) this forum sometimes has nativistic seepage in it.
Sappy songs are good Irving Berlins God Bless America was dropped form the original production of Yip Yip Yaphank & was'nt revived for another 20 years before it gained a new life & a new load of meaning.
I might toss in another nasty little bit of prejudice on the part of some & it's the type of song Greenwood has written it's Country. Country makes some folks eyes roll back no matter whats being sung. I appreciate the sentiment of Greenwood's song as I did Berlin's song I just detest most of the people who like to wrap themselves in it.
I would equally detest any teacher trying to ban it.
The lapel pin crowd where it can be a fashion accessory rather than anything else.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"Blanket statements about liberals as usual."

Hardly. Specific people trashed "God Bless the USA" in their own words. I merely listed a few of the uniformly negative words they chose in sharing their disdain. Not a single person has retracted what he or she said.

Liberal folks also joined Nancy in praising an old song mocking mid-century America. That's good. Paying attention to what progressives openly embrace is instructive. I just hope they don't get shy now, and stop sharing those beliefs.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Elvis...I didn't respond directly to your post... just about music.
Having been married to a J Witness in my starter marriage
(1960) I think the principals' objection to the song would have been the association of the song to the aftermath of 9/11.
My starter husb was with the 101st Airborne at Fort Campbell and black listed by his family.....forever.
Said it would turn him against religion forever.

They were conscientious objectors and I totally respect that based on their faith but she (principal) let her personal feelings for a belief interfere with her job.
The school should question her a bit more.

By the way elvis...that big mean paratrooper raised a J Witness folks say is now a preacher in a Methodist Church.
Go figure.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 15:36

...but she (principal) let her personal feelings for a belief interfere with her job

Again with the irony :) Not mocking just amazed that for all the talk about songs this strikes me as the most bizarro part of the convo.

David posted:

In the picture, a long-haired man with a Jesus name tag points at the viewer. The caption reads 'I want you to kill all infidels' above the phrases 'Meet me in Jerusalem' and 'Get a free ticket to Heaven.'

....and not a peep, you do realize the same could be said right ? I mean "someone" in that school in Cali is letting their "personal beliefs interfere with their job".

I grew up on country music, but not these young guys. So Greenwood's song is now in the same class as the National Anthem? Me thinks not :)


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Nik you play that card so often & it's as obnoxious today as the first time you played it.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Just because somebody puts something out there doesn't guarantee universal acceptance.

I won't retract anything I've written about "God Bless the USA"; it's MY honest assessment. I also have strong feelings about a wishing well sitting in the middle of someone's front lawn or the ubiquitous rock filled tree rings. And I'm liberal leaning.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Liberal folks also joined Nancy in praising an old song mocking mid-century America.

Time to reacquaint yourself with the song.

You're ignoring the call-and-response lyrics between those happy to be in Manhattan, and those who aren't.

Never thought I would see the day when nativists attack Bernstein and Sondheim.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Posted by duluthinbloomz4 zone 4a (My Page) on Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 16:21

"I also have strong feelings about a wishing well sitting in the middle of someone's front lawn"

Yes! How 'bout those fake bear cutouts? Or gnomes all dressed up like the Seven Dwarves?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

A friend once reminded me that all these things exist to assist many in the pursuit of beauty. I accept that; just as I would accept the idea that someone spends the winter sewing new clothes for the goose family that gets moved every week to fool even the most casual of observers.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Photobucket


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Specific people trashed "God Bless the USA" in their own words. I merely listed a few of the uniformly negative words they chose in sharing their disdain. Not a single person has retracted what he or she said.

Yes Nikoleta, several people expressed their dislike of the song. So what? I don't like it. I find nothing inspiring or beautiful about it. That says nothing except my feelings for that particular song. It is quite a stretch to try to distort distaste for a song into anti-Americanism. Bonkers in fact.

Liking or disliking Lee Greenwood's song is not the barometer for patriotism.

Liberal folks also joined Nancy in praising an old song mocking mid-century America. That's good. Paying attention to what progressives openly embrace is instructive. I just hope they don't get shy now, and stop sharing those beliefs

Speaking of bonkers.

Apparently many think WSS is still timely and the score/lyrics still brilliant. That "old" song and others from the revival of WSS won a Grammy in 2009 and was nominated that same year for awards here in NY (Tony)and in London.

So, progressives openly embracing Bernstein/Sondheim's music says exactly what? That they have good taste? They attend the theater? What exactly do you extrapolate from that?

Never thought I would see the day when nativists attack Bernstein and Sondheim,
Bonkers.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

epip...guessing it just proves progressives and conservatives don't think alike...about music or much of anything else.

I don't think thats a bad thing either.
We have to have balance in every aspect of life.

I honestly think different views and beliefs keep all of us from becoming complacent and smug.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Posted by citywoman2012 none (My Page) on Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 22:00

"I honestly think different views and beliefs keep all of us from becoming complacent and smug."

I hope that's true :-D


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"Yes Nikoleta, several people expressed their dislike of the song. So what?"

Libs chose very specific, very negative terms in sharing their thoughts about "God Bless the USA." I was grateful to them. I listed some of those terms, and "voila!" The pattern stood out all by itself.

Thanks again to all the libs who shared their thoughts and feelings about the song here. As folks who love their country think about the next election, I think it's good information to have.

We can elect someone who is proud to be American.

Or re elect someone who isn't.

We can re elect someone who is down on America.

Or elect someone who isn't.

Had enough yet?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 12:05

The song sucks. That is the only "pattern" I see.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Did President Obama post on this thread and I missed it ?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Did President Obama post on this thread and I missed it ?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

The song sucks. That is the only "pattern" I see.

I have never heard the song, nor Lee Greenwood.

I guess I should consider myself lucky.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 12:23

So basically our (dems) "allegiance" to country is based on whether or not we like a song by a country western singer?

Hmmmmmmmmm


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 12:31

Over the top, goofy country-pop ballad nonsense. Utterly forgettable if not for the blatant appeal to the wrap yourself in the flag crowd.

Guy is getting rich off of misery.

"The country guys are always joking with me about that. They always say, 'I bet Greenwood is hoping for another war!' That's just between us country guys." ~Greenwood


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer. "

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

For me the real problem here is that this is a SUNG PRAYER. It goes over the heads of 6 yr olds of course but you start the indoctrination early...

Here is a bit of humorosity I just ran across-the man who wrote the pledge of allegiance was a Socialist!!!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

So, if I get this thread correctly and what is being posted on it.

1. some of us dislike and/or hate Lee Greenwood's song "Proud to be an American".

2. Others love the song and find and/or feel it is very patriotic

3. Some of us believe that dislike/hate of this song is unpatriotic

4. Others find that belief absurd

5. Some of us have brought the musical West Side Story into the thread and
some of the words to one of the songs in it.

6. Some of us believe that this musical and the words of songs in the muscial
are still relevant today

7. Others believe it is not and is nothing more than trashing of the USA

To sum up, if you don't like a particular song that "praises America" that makes you unpatriotic, according to the right wing.

So the right wing is now able to determine who is and isn't Patriotic based on whether a US citizen does or doesn't like a particular song?

Is this what the USA has come to?

First it was unpatriotic if you didn't wear an American Flag label pin in your suit jacket. Wasn't that courtesy of Ronald Reagan or something? That's where it started with him and the GOP? correct me if I'm wrong.

That Flag lapel pin traveled with those GOP in the White House and eventually became the symbol of "you either are or aren't patriotic, wear it and you are, don't wear it and you aren't."

In other words, a stupid pin stuck in your clothes made you Patriotic, not your beliefs.
Talk about stupidity. or so I thought.

Till it was revealed where in the world those Patriotic American Flags where made. Yup right over there in China, or some other Asian country.

Now how the heck was that Patriotic? Or is it Patriotic to wear an American Flag pin that is made in Asia? Nope it's the American Flag lapel pin "stupid", doesn't matter where it is made.

Before you knew it, that stupid lapel pin, you know the one that is an American Flag made over seas in Asia turned into the Days following 9/11. Everyone had to have an American Flag to fly, an American Flag pin for their clothes, red, white and blue Ribbons, magnet flags for their cars and all the rest of the stuff that literally popped up over night.

My daughter had just started her freshman year in college and my son was in the heart of the disaster in NYC.

You couldn't find any of the stuff that "would show your patriotism" anywhere in the stores, it was all sold out.

Then one day, I asked an owner of a small store why the trouble in getting, of all things, and American Flag and the answer was astounding.

"because they can't keep up with the demand for them out of Asia. China, etc. they are working 24/7 in the sweat shops to produce them and get them out to this country. None of this stuff is made in the USA, it's just made to look like it is."

My mouth fell open, and from that point on, it was no more purchase of anything that was going to show my "patriotism" by purchasing anything that was made in China or Vietnam or anywhere else.

If the Flags, the lapel pins, the magnet flags, etc couldn't be made in this country, then so be it, it wasn't coming into my home, and I passed the word along to everyone I knew, and they did the same, my family did etc.

In time, word did get out that these products where all or mostly made over seas in sweat shops, not in the USA and some of them began to be produced in the USA.

But until it had, the GOP and others where judging people on their patriotism based on what was worn without caring where it was manufactured, where it came from and they didn't care.

Now the same crew is judging people, at least on this forum and on this thread by way of what they think of and have stated about a particular song?

Can anyone get any more stupid than that? Any more absurd? Any more lacking in understanding what patriotism really is?

Love and support of one's country, regardless of what country it is, is not about a particular song, wrapped up in a flag, wearing a flag lapel pin or any other tangible type of object or love of or like of a particular song.

Patriotism has been defined as "devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty."

Anyone can look up the definition of patriotism, you don't need me to provide a link for you.

Now here is that definition including flags, lapel pins, music or anything else.

It's offensive to think that men and woman have died for this country, been sent over seas to fight and die under claims of freedom for this country, defending this country and/or others to be free;

And yet back home there is still going on, the absurdity of what is and isn't patriotic, patriotism.

When is it going to be understood that this country, The USA, has freedom of speech and that is something that we, as a nation have fought for and gives any one of us the right to like and or dislike certain music, say so publicly and it doesn't mean that we are unpatriotic.

That we, the people have the right to stand up and disagree with politicians, government laws, wars that the government has gotten the nation into and that doesn't make us unpatriotic, but rather more patriotic than just standing by and saying and doing nothing or blindly supporting the actions.

For crying out loud, our military has fought for these rights for us and you can ask our military today and you will get the answer that it is the right of the people to do exactly that, disagree and publicly do so and that they have been, will in the future and always do so, fight to protect those rights.

Those rights include not liking some sappy, stupid sounding, country song that is supposed to be patriotic.

Give it a rest already and get involved in something important not something as stupid as a country music song, and yes I find it a horrible song, horrible sounding song, sappy and will, If I lived to be a million, have no change of opinion on that song then either.

And no it doesn't make me unpatriotic, it makes me nothing more than someone that really, really detests that song, and country music period.

And just so you all know, I come from a long line of military family, and not one of them would ever say that I am unpatriotic, but rather that I am doing, thinking, saying and acting just as I should and that is what our military has fought for since day 1.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

From what you have stated, I guess, Chloe, that you would find it highly objectionable if I "re-gifted" you all the flag wrapped rah-rah war emails I have gotten over the past ten years?

Always with the tag at the end of them, "Show our troops your support by passing these on!"

Disgusting.

I showed my troops my support in other ways. I deleted those unwanted e-mails (which made the sender feel Oh! So patriotic!) until I finally decided to just block the various senders and then donated some of my time at the VA hospital instead.

President Obama has repeatedly told the nation how proud he is to be an American. Nik apparently doesn't believe him but is willing to believe that creepy Romney, who costumed up to pretend to be a police officer and then went out and actually stopped people who were driving - is.

But what can she do? That's her guy, she is stuck not only with voting for him but actually defending him too. She might even get her heart's desire and be able to call him Mr. President Romney. And then defend him for at least four more years. It's a heavy burden she will carry.

I will vote for the man who has declared himself a proud American rather than an "I am an Extreme Conservative!" who will will actually be leaving this country better than he found it.

Someone who did not vote for the Bush/Cheney team.

Twice.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Around here the Greenwood ditty is a redneck country song. If you'd tell any of those yokels you didn't like the song you'd be labeled a flaming Obama loving lib. Crazy, isn't it?

Remember the flack Obama got for not wearing the ubiquitous flag pin? He's not proud to be an American, the Right chanted. Hang your head in shame. So to appease, he always has it on although he must think..and this proves what? I bought a pin made in China so people will believe I like America.

This country is going down a black hole..pushed by the ultra Right.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

So basically our (dems) "allegiance" to country is based on whether or not we like a song by a country western singer?

Apparently. Who knew?

If it is up to some we will all have to surrender our play lists for examination. Those who have "God Bless the USA" on theirs go to the right, everyone else to the left.

Congratulations,you have been "Greenwooded".


Libs chose very specific, very negative terms in sharing their thoughts about "God Bless the USA." I was grateful to them. I listed some of those terms, and "voila!" The pattern stood out all by itself...

Do you actually read your posts without giggling?

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Er, the point in the OP was the principal's motive for pulling the song, not whether it's a great song. I'm personally not crazy about it either--like I'm not going to run out a buy a recording of it, right?

But did she pull it because she feels (felt?) it might offend other cultures, or because it's too grown up, as the spokesperson stated? Or some other reason?

The way this thread is going, is it being said that if dems don't like this song they are not patriotic? Surely not?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Heres a rousing patriotic song without naming a country. It's from CHESS a score that I have loved for years . Many people have sung it. I've heard it referred to one of those on your feet people of Flatbush kinds of tunes. It could be about any country. "let mans petty nations tear themselves apart, my lands only borders lie around my heart" nice words
Josh Groban puts it away also just that when he sings it there a huge hammer & sickle in the back ground on the stage. The version I put here is Michael Ball a British singer but anyone can sing it & it would be true.
What makes your heart stir if anything....some find a stirred heart a dangerous commodity or an uncomfortable feeling or a state reserved for the special few.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anthem


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Joe Cocker's "You are so beautiful" has me running for the kleenex box every time I hear it. I think of it as the perfect love song of all time sung to perfection by old Joe and his gruff, perfect voice.

And I love "Ode to Joy" I listen to it frequently, it makes my heart twirl.

As far as a song reflecting the love of country, I think "America, the beautiful", the first verse, is beautiful even if I'm a non-believer.

The words to the pledge of allegiance to the American flag is really perfection in reflection of how I feel about my country and how it should be. If it could be put to good music it would be my perfect "patriotic song."

"....one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That says it all about what this country should be, could be.

I don't like country music, I simply don't. I especially cannot stand Bluegrass.

I find the Greenwood song to be insipid and cloying. But that is a reflection on my taste in music, not a reflection on my thoughts about our country.

A whole lot of people could also find Joe Cocker's "You are so beautiful" cloying too. It wouldn't reflect how they feel about fulfilled, contented love. It would just mean they don't like the lyrics and/or how old Joe sung it.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Thank you Nikoleta for posting the beautiful and meaningful lyrics. Who in the right mind wouldn't think so.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"No one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the American public."


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

At the same dance place that starts the evening with the National Anthem, the first song after that is this Greenwood song.

I grown to dislike it as much as I dislike the National Anthem forced upon me.

It's a "slow" song and the people come out and start the evening dancing "slow" with their lover.

If you listen to the song, to the part,

"And I gladly "stand up",
next to you and defend her still today...."
,

you'll hear that the "stand UP" part gets a little emphasis in the singing.

At that point, if you're cool, you give your lady a little "lift" into the air. Very romantic.

Hay


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Hay, they play that song second EVERY time? Ugh!

At on time in my life, all I listened to was country. I have NO idea why!!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 10:14

Additional confirmation that I'm not cool is unnecessary.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ma Vlast


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Beautiful music and beautiful pictures!!

As a classical pianist, I love most classical music. The fun part is picking out all the different instruments.

It's funny, too, how kids today watch movies and don't even realize how many classical pieces are used in them.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"The song sucks. That is the only "pattern" I see."

The pattern is that libs keep saying (in different ways) that the song "sucks," but have yet to specify which lyrics they find offensive. In Nancy's case, she knows it's a terrible song, even though she has never even heard it. The lyrics are posted, however, so like other libs here, she can't or won't articulate what it is about the song that is so "offensive."

To quote Nancy, "I have never heard the song, nor Lee Greenwood. I guess I should consider myself lucky."

I've always thought of Nancy as someone who liked to reach her own conclusions, so the above comment surprised me.

We're all free to hate the song or love it, but an interesting pattern has emerged. Folks most eager to trash the song are (1) liberals, and (2) don't know why they hate it. They just want us to know they do.

Glad some folks like the lyrics, and thanks to the OP for starting this revealing thread.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Yep I still ha an old Qiana disco shirt around somewhere no accounting for tastes.
Or reactions to music I was thinking after 911 A concert for Manhattan was held & Billy Joe Sang Miami 2017 a rather bizzare song about the destruction of NY in the future. The crowd was filled with uniforms police fire EMT & he brought the house down with that "I seen the lights go out on Broadway" opening. I always found it odd but the crowd desperately needed something to cheer...we had the wind kicked out of us & a lot of feelings running around & most of them were jumbled.

BEST BEST ever for me God Bless America is the closing scenes of THE DEEER HUNTER. Starts weakly gets a little lost a few words fumbled finishes strongly with a sense that each person is expressing some internal relation to all the other present with the song. Very effective & exactly along the lines of what I was describing in the 7th inning stretch at Yankee Stadium. After all I am not a citizen of the world or even a dual citizens like my oldest brother or several of my nephews. The Irish national anthem "A soldiers Song" does nothing for me I haven't a clue about most other nations national anthems & never get any kind of stirring from the,
I think the only reasons Les Marseilles gets me a little is I've seen Casablanca too many times & watching Jesse Norman sing it at the French Bicentennial.

Here is a link that might be useful: The deer hunter


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Nothing like Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings used as the backdrop for Oliver Stone's Platoon.

That piece was so moving at Grace Kelly's funeral - and it sold me on the wonders of classical music.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 10:44

"specify which lyrics they find offensive."

Ha! Sorry, no, I don't beat my wife. Song still sucks though.

"Folks most eager to trash the song are (1) liberals, and (2) don't know why they hate it."

1. Prove I'm a "liberal".
2. I know exactly why I hate the song but also understand there is absolutely no reason I should have to pass you or anyone else's test of what is or is not "American".

Some kind of narrow test or proof is not at all what America is about to me. What makes our country our culture and our society strong and interesting, creative, fascinating, sometimes unpredictable and maddening is its diversity in all things. Out of many one. That includes taste and opinion.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"Folks most eager to trash the song are (1) liberals..."
As a Canadian, I have often wondered how Americans recognize each other's political leanings, there being only two kinds, apparently - liberal and conservative.
I have wondered whether it was skin colour, race, hairstyle, clothing, a hat, a secret handshake, or what.
But now, thanks to Nik, I finally understand. It's the music. There is liberal music and conservative music.
Who would have guessed?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I'm for abortion. I'm not "progressive."

I hate this song and I'm not liberal.

I hate nationalism and I hate, (strongly dislike), this Greenwood song. The Greenwood song in part because of it's nationalistic garbage. But in part, too, because I have to listen to it about twice a week while I'm waiting for the cool songs to start.

(I'm going to have it going through my head all day today. One more reason to hate that song. "And I'll gladly Stand UP...."

Hay


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

The only thing revealing about this thread is that , for some, not liking a song or a particular genre of music is considered unpatriotic. I find that to be more than a little paranoid.

Now if the thread was discussing the National Anthem I could understand the righteous indignation but a pop song ? Dues that mean every time a singer writes a song about America it must be cherished by all?

.....and Hay don't make me like you:-)


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

T'would be so simple if by your music would ye be known.

More liberal use of the English language... can we apply mawkish, saccharine, novelettish to "God Bless the USA"?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 12:45

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RE: I'm Proud to be an American


"I know exactly why I hate the song but also understand there is absolutely no reason I should have to pass you or anyone else's test of what is or is not "American"."

Kwoods: Nobody asked you to weigh in on what you think is or isn't "American." I simply noted that libs have shared their intense dislike for "God Bless the USA" throughout this thread, but have failed to identify a specific word or phrase that they find offensive.

For those who are as mystified as I am about what the offending word or words might be, here are the lyrics again:

God Bless The USA
by Lee Greenwood

If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I'd worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I'd thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can't take that away.
--------------------------------------------
Who finds this offensive?
--------------------------------------------
God Bless the USA, continued:

And I'm proud to be an American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.
------------------------------------
Who finds this offensive?
--------------------------------------
God Bless the USA, continued:
From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.
----------------------------------------------
Who finds this offensive?
----------------------------------------------

That's it. The rest of this song is the refrain, which appears above.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Natal that is hilarious...a show way ahead of it's time.

Nik, songs are about way more than the simple lyrics...that would be called a poem. So are you saying in the wonderfully free country of America love of all songs that sing the "praises" of the country is obligatory? They did that in Nazi Germany too?

Give it up, you took a wrong turn on this one.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Kills me how a claimed independent (to my mind means someone who is an individual continues to lump folks in groups)
The Hate America crowd nonsense is a suppurating old piece of Nativism that remains alive & well.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Enough with this pattern nonsense. No one owes you an explanation on why we like or dislike this song or anything for that matter, nor has anyone said they find the song offensive. Only you.

You continue to distort and contort things and it is all ridiculous.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 13:14

Not a good poem either, Tennessee and Sea? L.A. and Say? Today and U.S.A.?

Sixth grader would get an A+.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I think you could win Miss Teen USA with it.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Seriously..I am agreeing with Hay?? Although maybe he was being facetious. I HATE the Nationalism theme. Reminds me of a song the Nazi's would have played in WW2.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I don't like the Greenwood song words. I find it schmaltzy, jingoistic and trite in its wording. And because this is my opinion it does not make me part of some fictitious "America Hating" crowd!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Apparently someone with Tamara's ear found my entry on internet trolls offensive yet here we are first taking the bait and then the fly.Nik segue's 'offensive' in when talking about 'dislike' and Bob's yer uncle- hooked.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"Das Lied der Deutschen"

Germany, Germany above all
Above everything in the world
When, always, for protection and defense
Brothers stand together.
From the Maas to the Memel
From the Etsch to the Belt,
Germany, Germany above all
Above all in the world.

German women, German fidelity,
German wine and German song,
Shall retain, throughout the world,
Their old respected fame,
To inspire us to noble deeds
For the length of our lives.
German women, German fidelity,
German wine and German song.

Unity and right and freedom
For the German Fatherland;
Let us all strive to this goal
Brotherly, with heart and hand.
Unity and rights and freedom
Are the pledge of fortune grand.
Prosper in this fortune's glory,
Prosper German fatherland.

***************************

Guess the Maas and Memel, Etsch and Belt aren't quite Minnesota and Tennessee, Detroit and LA, but corn and alltaglichkeit ring pretty much the same.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Two questions:

Why is Nic's undies in a bunch because people don't care for Lee Greenwood's song?

After all, the whole song is all about him and NOT all about this country and ALL those who make up this country, NIk.

The only time he talks about gratefulness is when it comes to those who served so that it could be all about him. And then he declares that he, too, would gladly defend this country of mine.

Which years did he proudly serve and perhaps even militarily defend, Nic - especially since he is certainly of age to have been drafted in Viet Nam, that ugly mess my husband got pulled into. And certainly not too old to have served in any of the other various conflicts we got ourselves involved in, right up to the Gulf wars. Or just served in the military peroid, Nik?

I'll save you the effort: please take note, he did not serve in the military ever, anywhere, much less serve in a conflict zone.

What cheap and easy words but oh! so very very profitable words, Nic. And that is why I find the song insipid, cloying and manipulative. And that is why my conservative husband can't stand this song.

I wonder how much money Greenwood made for gladly standing up and defending this country in the form of a country music single which sold who knows how many dollars worth of sales? How much does he make every time it is played anywhere, anytime?

Nothing wrong with making cash on it at all, but please don't think that is performing a civic duty for our country. Or is in any way, defending it.

Defending it against who, by the way. Who do you think he is refering to when he sings about gladly defending our country? Defending it against foreign enemies or perhaps another type of enemy he considers his country needing his defense against? What would be your take on it?

I prefer patriotic songs which are all about what this country can offer for ALL of us, a song in admiration for the greatness of potential this country still has for ALL of us - which the great, patriotic songs always have been about.

Not this insipid stuff. Or, again - any country music at all.

If you don't find it sappy, fine. Be my guest to listen to it every day, every hour of every day if you so prefer and do savor it's perceived message, lyrics, musical arrangement and vocals.

Please don't be confused that liking this song makes you a better American than those who don't like this song because you would be wrong.

I'm sure I like music you would find extremely sappy. But for pete's sake, don't define others for what it is they don't like when it comes to songs about America or, ridiculously, this song in particular.

It's way too revealing about your (previously liberal!) thought processess, Nic.

And in my opinion, certainly not behavior reflecting a good, patriotic American, not at all.

I hope my explaination for why I don't care for this song is clear enough for you Nic. If you are still confused, then after you answer my questions found in this response, I will possibly gladly address any of yours which might remain, regarding the why's of my dislike of this song.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I don't live in Germany so the lyrics fell on deaf ears for me. I don't feel the love and it didn't make me smile.

Now, I am an ole softie for the USA and not into country music at all but God Bless The USA makes me smile.

I am not a red-neck....don't like the song because I'm a "righty". I saw Lee Greenwood sing this song to thousands of our troops and it was very emotional for them and they loved it. Our troops go wild when they hear it.
Thats good enough for me.....simple dittie or not.

All I'm saying on the song.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I'll join in with the crowd that thinks this song is so much pap....right up there with those magnetic ribbons Made In China and that saccharine little song by Carrie Underwood "Jesus Take The Wheel"

"She had a lot on her mind and she didn't pay attention
she was going way too fast
Before she knew it she was spinning on a thin black sheet of glass
She saw both their lives flash before her eyes
She didn't even have time to cry
She was so scared
She threw her hands up in the air
Jesus take the wheel
Take it from my hands"

The LAST thing I want if I or anyone I love is out on the roads in ice and snow is some fool throwing up their hands and yelling "Jesus take the wheel!"

The Lord helps those that helps themselves.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"The Lord helps those that helps themselves."

Must be why poor people stay poor.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Oh......score!

When it looks like your fellow 'extreme conservatives' might be on the wrong end of the better argument, do bring out the poor and how they must suffer because it's their own fault!

And never, EVER forget to put that statement in the very same sentence while you use the name, Lord!

Score!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"The Lord helps those that helps themselves."
Must be why poor people stay poor.

That's making the assumption, assumptions that there is a god, that the poor believe in god.

Which is making assumptions about other people that you don't have the right to do so.

But hey, the righties always do that, don't they?

If defining love of country, patriotism is based on whether one loves a particular song that has made some country singer rich, we have some very, very, very serious problems in this country.

So what if that sappy, and yes I said sappy, song was loved by a some of our military.
Disliking it, hating it, calling sappy, lousy or anything else one wants to call it, doesn't make someone patriotic any more than it makes someone patriotic that loves the lousy song.

I know plenty in the military that are not in love with our national anthem because it is so difficult to sing. they believe that a national anthem for any country should be easy for anyone to sing, not a select few.

Does that make them less patriotic than their fellow comrades that don't agree with them? Of course not.

But, we got these righties, Nik amongst them that now define patriotism based on some stupid song that made someone rich.

I've heard and read a lot of stupidity, absurdity in my life, this ranks right up there at the top.

Those American Citizens that find a particular country song sappy, lousy, hate it, dislike it, never want to hear it or hear it again, are not patriotic and those that love this particular song, one that has made some country singer one rich person are patriotic.

Defining people as patriotic or not, simply based on whether they like a particular song or not;

Can't get much dumber than that. If that is how Patriotism is now defined by the right wing, god help all of us. We may not have many people in this country that are patriotic, I personally don't know anyone, nor does my husband, my son or my daughter that can stomach listening to 30 seconds of this, so called, patriotic song.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

LIttleone, it's also making the assumption that the Lord is a conservative who wants lower taxes at the expense of those who can't manage as it is, wants to maintain the lower tax of the 1% because they work so hard and are job creators and - despite his Son's message - the message his Son demonstrated his demand by example just exactly HOW it is we are to treat the poor, that upon death her conservative God will high five House and exclaim, "Score!"

This is the God and the Son of God who so many conservative Christian's embrace and place their belief in. Certainly, by example, most conservaties in this forum!

Just ask them, they will tell you. In outrage.

ESPECIALLY if you are an atheist who knows just a little too darn much about what it is they are supposed to believe and ACCEPT regarding the message of Jesus, the Son of God, which they proclaim to believe and revere.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

If the Lord helps those who help themselves, and we are supposed to follow the Lord's teachings, then we don't have to help anyone who doesn't help themselves. Isn't that a logical assumption to an ever-so-logical statement?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Who then helps those who can't help themselves? If this is not the point of Christian devotion and precisely what Jesus died for I despair of any understanding of what his teachings mean.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

The LAST thing I want if I or anyone I love is out on the roads in ice and snow is some fool throwing up their hands and yelling "Jesus take the wheel!"

The Lord helps those that helps themselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I take that statement to mean that the Lord wants us to use the brains and skills he gave us to help ourselves not simply throw up our hands and yell "Jesus take the wheel"

But then you knew that is what is meant by the statement...


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Mr. Greenwald was not a draft 'dodger' during the Vietnam War, but instead was given a 3A hardship deferment. Because he had small children. At the age of 17.
But he says he woulda gone if his number had come up.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Jesus never said that; Benjamin Franklin did. We are called (those who believe) to help anyone no matter what. He spoke to individuals, not the government. It's assumed that those who oppose more taxes collected by a wasteful government are selfish and uncaring. When you don't know anything about anyone's individual efforts to help other, it's pretentious to label them as such.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Posted by houseful (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 15:53

"The Lord helps those that helps themselves."

Must be why poor people stay poor.

*

How do you get pistachios off the monitor?

BINGO Houseful!


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

does it really matter who the heck said it, house"

The facts remain that it appears the only interest the right wing GOP has is to cut any and all government that "suits their purpose", regardless of the consequences to anyone else, especially those most in need of the services that will suffer from these cuts.

It's the top 1% that benefit from anything the GOP does, the rest of us, well we get "flushed down the toilet" right along with the rest of the sewerage.

Less government is the view, unless it has something to do with controlling the personal lives of the people, then it's "get the government into that. got to get into the bedroom, individual's life to dictate whom they can and can't marry, who can and can't terminate a pregnancy, obtain birth control, just to name a few.

Ah, but those are the same people that judge patriotism by way of the music they like and don't like, the type of music they like and don't like.

Just follows the pattern of obsessions that the right wing has, control and manipulate the lives and minds of the people so that they all think as one unit, don't allow and independent thought, any questions about what is being said and not said discussed and not discussed.

MY goodness doesn't that sound like mind control? My, My is that what the GOP is up to?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I had no idea Lee Greenwood and his song had won so many awards...David thanks for posting the link.

Invited to the WH by 5 Presidents to perform the song (those darn red-necks)
Congressional Medal Of Honor Society Award.
Recent opinion poll had it topping all other patriotic
songs including God Bless America.

Just saying ...you don't have to like it just don't call me a righty and redneck for liking it .
Evidently I am in good company.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Less government is the view, unless it has something to do with controlling the personal lives of the people, then it's "get the government into that. got to get into the bedroom, individual's life to dictate whom they can and can't marry, who can and can't terminate a pregnancy, obtain birth control, just to name a few.

I AM for less government.

I have no desire to be in your bedroom.

Hay


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"I hope my explaination for why I don't care for this song is clear enough for you Nic."

Good Morning Mylab! I appreciate your taking the time to repeat that you don't like the song, and that your conservative DH doesn't either. I understand that part. We're all destined to find some songs that grate on our nerves. I understand the theme from TITANIC annoys a lot of people, including Kate Winslet who wants to throw up when she hears it! (link below)

Nevertheless, the lyrics to "God Bless the USA" are the elephant in the room. Folks quick to share their dislike of the song in general just clam up when asked to identify anything in particular they don't like.

It's an interesting phenomenon to observe people sharing a very strong dislike for a thing, and yet unable or unwilling to analyze or articulate the specific cause(s) of their revulsion. I've been fascinated by the apparent depth of feelings expressed here, and I'm starting to get a kick out of how imaginative some of you have been in describing the song and/or how it makes you feel. Just another reason to be "hooked" on HT, I guess. I never know what people are going to say (or in this case, not say) but I always know there will be something to grab my attention. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Barf Will Go On...???


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Would it help if I deconstructed the feeling I had when reading your last post Nik or would one word 'nauseated' suffice? There is a visual and a soundtrack but I am sure you get the picture without that.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can't take that away."

To billions of people around the world, the flag stands for bully and murderers.

"And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me."

In my short lifetime, most of them men who died for this country died being the aggressor, not the defender of our freedom.

"Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say."

I have no pride in our militaristic ways. Being responsible for thousands and thousands of Vietnamese. Being responsible for perhaps a million Iraqis' death brings no pride to me.

It's a song attempting to glorify our militaristic incursions in places around the world where we have no business being.

I have no pride in that.

It's a sick, nationalistic, militaristic bunch of garbage.

Hay


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Geeze, the world is upside down. I agree with everything Hay said. As I said before, it could have been the German national anthem for Hitler's crowd.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Geeze, the world is upside down. I agree with everything Hay said. As I said before, it could have been the German national anthem for Hitler's crowd.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Did you change your brew Hay? Are you now drinking Molson or Labatt's? Something has changed as I keep waiting for the other boot to drop but it doesn't come.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 14, 12 at 12:05

I don't see Hay's position as inconsistent with anything else he's ever posted at all.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I will have to say when I read Hay's post I was sure I wasn't reading right.
I went back and read it again.
"In my short lifetime, most of them men who died for this country died being the aggressor, not the defender of our freedom."

Hay, do you live in the United States?

Those men died for the likes of you . Some of my family died for the likes of you.
I wish they could have been choosy in who they were dying for .


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Citywoman, a word to the wise, you have not left much doubt about who you are but this post is definitive. Wars generally speaking have winners and losers we can certainly agree on this, right? Those who die and their families are the losers, which is something else we can surely agree on. There are an inordinate number of Iraqi whose lives have been destroyed by war none claiming to be heroes. Let me ask you, now that we have established who the losers are (the dead in your family thousands of Iraqi's) who are the winners?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Citywoman, I don't know how old Hay is, so I'll look at wars/conflicts/military interventions that we have started and/or been involved in since 1950.

You can not find one that would or could really be classified as fighting to "defend our freedom"

Korean conflict
Vietnam
Gulf war I
Bosnia
Afghanistan
Iraq

Just to name a few of the various "conflicts" that have nothing to do with protecting our freedoms.

Even Afghanistan, what started out to be a bombing of terrorist training camps has turned into a total disaster with nothing gained but countless numbers of dead bodies on all sides.

MY family died fighting in some of these wars, drafted in Vietnam as well. Some lost their lives doing so, but in reality, only my grandfather, and uncles could honestly say they fought to protect us, That was WWI and 2.

Your last post was uncalled for in it's words and insults to Hay, You owe him and those of us posting on this thread, an apology for the words you used. There was no reason or call to use them.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

littleone...I beg to differ with you .
I owe you or no one an apology for being highly offended
by some of you who made the comment that my family died for nothing????

My family doesn't look at it that way.
If your country says it needs you ...you go.

I realize some of you are against war...I don't like it either...but saying that my family died for nothing????

They didn't feel that way and you are entitled to your opinion and you can go ahead you and hay and inkcog and who ever else wants to and go ahead and stomp on the flag and the memory of our families who died for this country.
Isn't that who they were representing.....this country.

Geeeeeees.....and you said I offended??


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Those men died for the likes of you . Some of my family died for the likes of you.

I wish they could have been choosy in who they were dying for .

Many of your posts are vile. This one included.

some of you who made the comment that my family died for nothing????

...but saying that my family died for nothing????

Absolutely no one said that to you. No one. Don't lie.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

epip was I addressing you ?
My comment was vile that I grieved that my family soldiers
died for people who evidently didn't appreciate the gesture?

There is something wrong with you some of you people.
..........................................................
Posted by haydayhayday none (My Page) on Thu, Jun 14, 12 at 9:51

In my short lifetime, most of them men who died for this country died being the aggressor, not the defender of our freedom
.........................................................

Hay...did you or did you not mean then that they died for nothing? I guess you will have to spell it out for me since I lead by emotion when confronted with what looks like opposition to our soldiers and what they do for country.

Your description was an aggressor not a defender of freedom.
If not fighting for country and for freedom then what did they die for?
Talk to me.
Just you ...I don't really need comments from littleones and eppis.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I have read Hay's comments such as these about this subject before too - pretty much said it the same way. I see Hay as an interesting and complex individual, probably much like Bill he doesn't have how he should believe to be dictated to him by anyone or any group and will "break rank" in a minute if he doesn't agree, and say so. Probably in such a way as to be heard, much like Bill. Don't agree with them a whole lot, they irritate the holy heck out of me, but I respect them both at least as much as I respect most moderate liberals! ;)

Viet Nam was terrible, those who had the bad luck to have the lottery number approaching had to make decisions, those who's number came up had to make decisions. None of them fair to have to make, none of them a good choice without consequences, almost to a person made by young men, still boys really, who had not even lived yet, had no experience in this old world, didn't even have fully developed brains to be able to make such decisions.

They were not defending anyone except the guy sitting next to him in a foxhole. The rest of us back home were doing just fine and would have been just fine had we never got into it with a country that we didn't have any business getting our noses into. Viet Nam was never a threat, the domino theory was incorrect. Viet Nam, with it's civil war, had the right to decide how it chose to rule it's country just as we do, without interference.

My husband did serve there, his lottery number was close, he joined the Air Force as he was interested in electronics and considered it the safest of all branches to be in should he be sent. Had he not joined before his lottery number was up, they would have put him in the army, given him a gun which jammed half the time and he would have been a grunt, the worst of all things to be in the military. Anyone can pull their trigger finger and be a target. And that war needed a whole lot of those guys.

- So, he joined the Air force and he was sent to Viet anam a year out of his 15 month tech school, just a single, sad year before they hung the "closed" sign on the war. He got so close to never having had to have that experience.

The French taught us a lesson about Viet Nam we should have learned from, but didn't.

The Russians must still be laughing at us re: Afghanistan.

I do believe that this country needs a strong military but it certainly does not need a big one. The days of needing huge troop numbers are well over. Unless we war ourselves into WWIII of course - and then I can certainly believe we will be fighting to keep ourselves, each of our own skins, safe.

Unless or until that terrible day comes, I think we have to carefully sit down and decide what is it each conflict we get involved in is actually about (flag waving and "my country, right or wrong! aside) and decide where the threat to us actually lies.

Threats to our very lives or perhaps threats to our standard of living? You want your husband/son to die to maintain or keep increasing that standard of living?


If we decide as a country to support the war like we did the invasion of Afghanistan, then I deeply believe that it should involve the draft. I used to think the draft was the worst thing possible - but if you don't have one then people forget that young men and women are still over there and care much, much less. It isn't really about you, specifically. When it's about you or your own relative specifically, it's a whole different thing, emotion, reaction.

The American troops are still there and we don't even much discuss them much as a group anymore in H.T. If they were drafted people, we would still discuss them plenty because our own husband/child/relative/friend could still be drafted. Or still be there with the threat of death, dismemberment, emotional ruin facing them every minute.

With a draft, I believe we would get very careful about what we got our loved ones into - and get back to short wars with clearly defined, very vocal goals that every American could understand - if one actually was necessary to protect our very skin - because the powers that be couldn't get away with what they pull with these decades old wars, where careers are made, generals starred up, fortunes made, retirement second jobs secured, investments to make money at.

Not that the draft actually did any of what I would hope in Viet Nam, but we certainly were involved in the people fighting in that war right to the point of the last day of leaving. At least we gave those troops that much. And we got real honest about what was going on and swore never again.

I know that a lot disagree with me regarding the draft, but it is what I believe.

If we are going to insist upon going rah-rah enough to suport the government about going to the war and send those endless "support our troops!" flag draped emails, then let it be because everyone's husband and son and perhaps daughters have been dragged into it or are in real danger of being so.

If we are going to be rah-rahing about starting something that costs lives on both sides - at least do it in such a way where the price is paid by everyone.

Maybe it will keep the rah-rah to a minimum. Maybe even no troops dying in another country for an entire generation - just think of that possibility. No troop dying in a conflict for an entire generation.

I love my country CW. I don't follow it's leaders nor support it's actions blindly and I don't consider my country without serious faults, failing and defects, especially these days.

If we can't acknowledge that something is wrong, there isn't a *chance* it will ever be fixed.

I can certainly love my country and see and acknowledge it's deep faults and failings. My love isn't blind, I don't prefer it to be.

Being blind or quiet about my country's failings isn't being a good American - it IS my country, right or wrong but I don't support the wrongs of my country, not actively nor by my silence about them. I prefer to call attention to them and address them in order to fix them.

I deeply believe doing so is what being a true American patriot actually means.

All my opinion only.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

epip was I addressing you ?

This is a public forum. How that works should be self explanatory.

My comment was vile that I grieved that my family soldiers
died for people who evidently didn't appreciate the gesture?

No. Your baseless accusation and your comment that they should be choosy was.

No one is lessening or demeaning your families sacrifice or anyone elses. On the contrary. Many have lost loved ones in wars so people understand and appreciate the "gesture".

The comments are about why the soldiers were sent into harms way in the first place and nothing to do with people's gratitude for their service.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

highly offended
by some of you who made the comment that my family died for nothing????

? Where did anyone, including myself say that or say that to you? Can you show us where that was said to you or said at all?

I certainly wasn't trying to demean your family's sacrifice, my owns, or anyone else's and it's absurd of you to think that I was or anyone else was for that matter.

Nor was or is anyone demeaning those that volunteer to serve in the military either, their beliefs that they are serving their country and/or doing what they believe is the correct thing to do and are doing so to defend our freedom.

What has been pointed out, though, is the reality, that can be hard to accept.

The reality being, that since WWII, the US has been the aggressor around the world, and the conflicts that we have been involved in have not been to defend our freedom.

The closest one could say that we have/are involved in to defend our freedom would be afghanistan, and yet, that has not worked out to be any kind of success, but rather turning is into being more and more hated throughout the Muslim world.
We do not appear to be accomplishing much of anything there.

I"m certainly not going to go stomping on the US Flag and I really don't know anyone that is or will be any time soon.

I do know, though, that it is not a crime to step on or desecrate the flag and that was decided by SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) in 1989.

And, as Epi said, this is a public forum and when you or anyone else posts comments directed at me on a thread in a public forum, well if I decide to respond, it is my right to do so.

Whether the person who posted the comments, in this case you citywoman, don't like it, well that's the way a public forum is.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"The reality being, that since WWII, the US has been the aggressor around the world, and the conflicts that we have been involved in have not been to defend our freedom."

Hmmm.. this sounds dangerously like the al-Qaeda's propaganda after 9-11. Who cares if they openly declare to step on or desecrate the Flag knowing that this would not be a crime decided by the black robbers on the bench?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

CW..Since when did you get appointed moderator on here? Epi or anyone can respond to any post with or without your permission.

I must say I have rarely agreed with Hay but do 100% on this. It's why the rest of the world hates us. World war 1 and 2 were fought defending our country. Anything after than, NO. Why was I and millions of others marching the streets in the 60's? To stop that atrocious war. I think we lost over 50,000 soldiers and 100,000's of civilians were killed over there. Did we win? Why were we there? Why were we in Iraq? Because our doofus President wanted to kill Hussein who was no more responsible for 911 than I was. CW..Think of all the civilians killed in these countries over the years, why don't you?


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Thank you Mylab.

Your post was very respectful and I appreciate your response and your stance on this issue.

I still have two nephews in Afghanistan and I can't help but take anything negative about our military personal.

A forum is not the place to try and have a discussion if you get emotionally and personally involved.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

"It's a song attempting to glorify our militaristic incursions in places around the world where we have no business being."

Finally, Hay! Someone articulates WHY they don't like the song. Thanks for your honesty.

Of course, I don't agree that "God Bless the USA" is a song that glorifies war. But I understand how others may disagree with me, and agree with you.

I think the song glorifies the USA and reminds us that freedom isn't free. Self defense should have begun at our own borders. But government didn't and still won't secure them. 9/11 was more than a decade ago, and we still don't know who is here or why. I would rather have our military protecting our own borders and keeping track of foreign nationals here, than on the borders of middle eastern nations.

On the other hand, the US does not go to war on a whim. Once engaged, we would be better served if we let the military carry out the mission it is given. I'm guessing that protecting mosques instead of American soldiers (who are being shot at by militants hiding inside them) is a political decision. A bad one, in my view. There may well be anger over the loss of sacred buildings, but the message should be consistent and clear. We are at war with terrorists, and sacred buildings will not protect them when they're storing weapons or trying to kill members of our military. I think our politicians failed us.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 15, 12 at 9:18

I am a liberal Christian and I still do not like the song ... but anyone who has the range to sing the Star Spangled Banner gives me goosebumps.


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

I love my country. But proud of it? Pride I don't associate with love of country, since real love includes both pride, shame, and every other emotion in the spectrum.

I certainly don't love it with the kind of blind unconditional pride of a parent, which is what I object to in so many of these saccharine songs and displays. In my view such unreflective love is misplaced when you're talking about a concept as abstract as "nation".


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RE: I'm Proud to be an American

Citywoman, I can appreciate that you have strong emotional feelings about this. I'm not going to go any farther than that with you right now. I think I've stated pretty clearly my feelings in general.

Nik, I disagree with most of what you have to say at "Fri, Jun 15, 12 at 9:14", but I won't go into that too much either.

The real reason I hate the song? Because I couldn't get it out of my mind for the past few days. Last night, I figured that they've opened up the dance floor with it every Friday and Saturday since at least since 9/11. I've been there most of those nights. On the first weekend after 9/11, they proudly declared that "from this day forth, we shall always begin the evening with the Star Spangled Banner..."
The song came out in 1984. I'm so sick of it!!!!! Just since 9/11 I figure I've heard it at least 800 times.

From Wikipedia,

""God Bless the USA" is an American patriotic song written and recorded by country music artist Lee Greenwood. The first Greenwood album it appears on is 1984's You've Got a Good Love Comin'. It reached No. 7 on the Billboard magazine Hot Country Singles chart when originally released in the spring of 1984, and was played at the 1984 Republican National Convention with President Ronald Reagan and first lady Nancy Reagan in attendance, but the song gained greater prominence during the Gulf War in 1990 and 1991, as a way of boosting morale.
The popularity of the song rose sharply after the September 11, 2001 attacks and during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the song was re-released as a single, re-entering the country music charts at No. 16. The song was also re-recorded in 2003 and released as "God Bless the USA 2003". The song could often be heard on the radio after those events, and versions of the song are widely distributed online."

I don't fit the profile of those who like it.

Hay


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