Return to the Hot Topics Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Posted by houseful (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 10:01

Just as suspected really; none of us will be suprised by this information. This is the crux of why some of us heartless, incompassionate, conservatives object to more taxes. "You get more of what you subsidize" is about right.

*************************
(CNSNews.com) � The federal government is not making much headway reducing poverty despite spending hundreds of billions of dollars, according to a study by the libertarian Cato Institute.
Despite an unprecedented increase in federal anti-poverty spending, the national poverty rate has not declined, the study finds.
"[S]ince President Obama took office [in January 2009], federal welfare spending has increased by 41 percent, more than $193 billion per year," the study says.
Federal welfare spending in fiscal year 2011 totaled $668 billion, spread out over 126 programs, while the poverty rate that remains high at 15.1 percent, roughly where it was in 1965, when President Johnson declared a federal War on Poverty.
In 1966, the first year after Johnson declared war on poverty, the national poverty rate was 14.7 percent, according to Census Bureau figures. Over time, the poverty rate has fluctuated in a narrow range between 11 and 15 percent, only falling into the 11 percent range for a few years in the late 1970�s.
The federal poverty rate is the percentage of the population below the federal poverty threshold, which varies based on family size.
While the study concedes that some of the increased spending under Obama is a result of the recession and the counter-cyclical nature of anti-poverty programs, it also finds that some of the increase is deliberate, with the government having expanded eligibility for welfare programs.
In fiscal year 2008, anti-poverty spending was $475 billion. In fiscal year 2009, when Obama took office, it had risen to $590 billion.
"But the dramat�ically larger increase also suggests that part of the program�s growth is due to conscious policy choices by this administration to ease eligibility rules and expand caseloads," the Cato report says. "For example, income limits for eligibility have risen twice as fast as inflation since 2007 and are now roughly 10 percent higher than they were when Obama took office."
In fact, the study points out that according to the administration�s own projections, federal welfare spending is unlikely to decline even after the economy recovers � further evidence that not all of the increase in spending is recession-related.
"All this spending has not bought an ap�preciable reduction in poverty," the study says. "[T]he poverty rate has remained relatively constant since 1965, despite rising welfare spending."
The study counts as a welfare program any federal program that is means-tested and provides some kind of cash or in-kind benefit. Means-tested programs are federal programs that only make benefits available to people at or below a certain income level. In-kind benefits are things like healthcare, housing, or other non-cash benefits that are given in lieu of money.
Included in this expanded definition of welfare spending are traditional welfare programs such as food stamps and cash welfare benefits, as well as in-kind, means tested programs like Medicaid, energy assistance grants for low-income people, and the refundable portions of the Earned Income Tax Credit.
The study faults the way poverty programs are designed, saying that the increase in spending and largely unchanged poverty rate showed that the issue is not a matter of money, but a matter of what the programs aim to achieve.
"The vast majority of current programs are focused on making poverty more comfortable � giv�ing poor people more food, better shelter, health care, and so forth � rather than giving people the tools that will help them escape poverty."
Instead, the study recommends refocusing anti-poverty efforts on keeping people in school, discouraging out-of-wedlock births, and encouraging people to get a job � even if that job is a low-wage one.
"It would make sense therefore to shift our anti-poverty efforts from government programs that simply provide money or goods and services to those who are living in poverty to efforts to create the condi�tions and incentives that will make it eas�ier for people to escape poverty.

***************************

Here is a link that might be useful: link


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 10:09

In fiscal year 2008, anti-poverty spending was $475 billion. In fiscal year 2009, when Obama took office, it had risen to $590 billion.

.....why do you suppose that happened?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

From the comments section:

You see, this is why people despise neocons and think you are stupid and dishonest.

The article states that: "[S]ince President Obama took office [in January 2009], federal welfare spending has increased by 41 percent, more than $193 billion per year," the study says. Federal welfare spending in fiscal year 2011 totaled $668 billion.

Go further down the article and it states: "In fiscal year 2008, anti-poverty spending was $475 billion. In fiscal year 2009, when Obama took office, it had risen to $590 billion."

Now, the funding levels for the FY 2009 budget were set by President Bush, although the budget was eventually signed by President Obama shortly after he took office. So the 2009 spending levels were already set by President Bush and they totaled $590 billion. Now, technically, it's true that this was the amount when Obama took office, but that amount was requested by President Bush and Obama respected his predecessor by approving his budget figures.

Now these programs for FY 2011 cost $668 billion, an increase of $78 billion over the $590 billion of the final year of President Bush's budget figure. This is how much Obama increased funding, not the $193 billion that the article, through clever and misleading logic, would lead you to believe. / end quote

keeping in mind, of course, that Obama took over when job losses were 600,000 a month, the world economy was in the worst shape since the Great Depression, etc.

But hey, if you think more deregulation and tax cuts for millionaires is the answer, vote Republican


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I'm republican and I vote tax increases for millionaires. But I also want some deregulation. YOu got it partly right. We don't need the government spending more money. We need middle class America to have the ability to spend more money.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Well, rob333, I hope your candidates listen. Mine sure don't - they parrot the line about rewarding 'job creators', and refuse to go into any detail of what regulations they want to get rid of. The Clean air act? Clean water act?


 o
-RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Doubt it! But I think these issues have come to a strong enough level that it's just gonna be a problem to solve with a whole new view. One more middle of the road. No old tricks have worked. I'll try to believe it'll happen!


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

We have numerous relatives that are considered poor by census standards, yet live well. This is because their assets and non cash benefits aren't used in the poverty calculation. They're quite comfortable living their current lifestyles with mostly non cash benefits and undocumented income/assistance.

Many poor people we know perform under the table cash/barter services and/or receive help from relatives, friends etc which is of course can't be calculated.

On the other side of the coin, we know many working people that aren't considered poor by census standards due to cash incomes, yet they're broke after paying for rent, utilities, food, car payments, insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, tolls, parking, daycare, cable, internet, phone and numerous necessities.

Inflation has really hit low income and part time workers like a sledgehammer.

We know many people that can't break the cycle of poverty simply because they can't afford the costs of reliable vehicle necessary to find/keep a job or two

They just can't afford payments, high interest rates, maintenance, repairs, insurance, gas, tickets, tools, towing, impound fees, parking etc.

When I offered to give used car to a cousin's daughter recently, she still couldn't afford the cost of registration, plates, insurance, inspection etc. The lowest insurance quote she received was just under $2,000 per year for liability insurance.

Job seekers without a reliable vehicles in their region are pretty much screwed...


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Actually david, Bush's 2009 budget called for 294 billion in welfare spending. May not have been what was spent, but that was his budget. In 2012, Obama's budget called for 451 billion. Again, don't know what was actually spent, but that is what he had asked for if a budget had been passed.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

On the other side of the coin, we know many working people that aren't considered poor by census standards due to cash incomes, yet they're broke after paying for rent, utilities, food, car payments, insurance, maintenance, repairs, gas, tolls, parking, daycare, cable, internet, phone and numerous necessities.

= me

My car is dying and I can't even afford a different one. You'll note, I didn't say a new one. Just a better car. I've been dragging my feet, hoping to make it to next year, but it's looking bleak. This economy has to change!!!! Or I can win the lottery.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Mrskjun, the OP somehow ignores the world recession that took place following the experiment with neocon economics, driving millions out of their jobs, in the worst economic down turn since the Depression.

Might have something to do with it.

While its fun to watch the 'Conservatives' pretend that nothing bad happened during the Bush administration and everything is all Obama's fault, a lot of people haven't forgotten.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

david, I was only disputing your numbers, not the fact that more and more people are falling into poverty. I just don't think Obama has a plan to help them out, but only to put more money into a welfare state.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

My car is dying and I can't even afford a different one. You'll note, I didn't say a new one. Just a better car. I've been dragging my feet, hoping to make it to next year, but it's looking bleak. This economy has to change!!!! Or I can win the lottery.

I have some tenants that recently bought a used car from a buy here-pay her car dealer after their existing car failed and inspection due to a rotted frame section.

The transmission on the used car they bought (for 3X market value) died shortly after their 30 day warranty.

I ended up plating/welding the frame of the original vehicle, then getting it inspected for them so they could keep their jobs and continue paying rent.

Yet another thing that keeps income/credit challenged workers down is the money and interest rates they pay for used/new vehicles.

We have a few relatives either paying 2/3X`the market value of the vehicles they're financing, paying insanely high interest rates, or both.

Many used car dealers sell/repossess the same vehicle numerous times when it breaks down and/or the buyers can no longer afford payments.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

2008 I seem to remember that's the year US employers decided they didn't need $2.6 million workers anymore it was the largest drop since 1945.
Hmmm you would think spending would have really gone up more after so many cleared out their 401k's and walked away from their mortgages. NYC homeless Families were up by 20% over the previous year that year. (so the nit pickers don't go to work on terms) homeless here equal families in transition between residences currently roof challenged without 4 walls that the call their own, not staying with the relatives.
GEEZ have to put it that way but I remember the crowd I'm dealing with & we have gone through so many of this kind of posting before & the nit picking that goes with it.
All my Bear Sterns & Lehman Brothers neighbors had to move to less desirable states or neighborhoods. There were a lot of apartment sales in the months after the collapse easier to try to sell it then to pay for moving it.

"From The NY Daily News January 19 2009.

New York is No. 1 again - this time, unfortunately, in job losses.

The city is projected to shed more jobs than any other metro area in the country this year, with 181,000 people likely find themselves without a paycheck.

The grim forecast can be traced to turmoil in the finance industry, which will account for more than 50,000 of the jobs lost, according to IHS Global Insight, which researched employment trends nationwide for the U.S. Conference of Mayors."

GEEE willikers I don't think they all had prudent reserves to hold them for 3 or 4 months emergency. Unemployment certainly wasn't going to cover $2000 & $3000 a month rents.
Well you'll just have to move to a cheaper apartment so my sister told my Merrill Lynch nephews. Well NYC landlords want every financial document since kindergarten to get an apartment so they moved back home temporarily 2 years and 25% & 30% salary cuts. Ohhhh those hefty student loans. Embarrassing being 32 & having your father sign as a guarantor on your lease just to get you back out of the house again.With 40 years worth of connections he got them both jobs again.
Without the personal stories it's all just numbers and gee there 3 more sofas & mattresses on the street.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

A CATO institution report covered by CNS.

What about all those trillions spent on free trade, which is supposed to be the Capitalist solution to everything?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

"Job seekers without a reliable vehicle in their region are pretty much screwed...."

Which is why we need more, not less public transportation. Which is why we need more commuter trains, not fewer, as they have in Europe. Which is why Amtrak should have been expanded. Where I lived before in VA they encouraged people to carpool because the traffic was so horrific. People just would not do it. Americans love their own little protected space and their independence too much.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

My question is this: How much of increased spending is to reduce poverty and how much is to make sure people are not starving? How much of the increased spending is spent on say, day care subsidies so that young single mothers can work?

Rob, I certainly feel your pain on the vehicle. We had bought our last car under circumstances that no longer exist now so we sold it for a 1992 and now DH is learning how to do repairs that he had never considered before. Fortunately, it gets good mileage.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I just know it's dang hard to band-aid my old car while trying to save for a better car. I'm paddling fast as I can, and planning to ride the bus some. Oy. Getting the amount of groceries I get and coming back home? I don't see it. It'll go from once a month to once a week. Oh my. At least I can afford groceries. For now.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 16:39

I don't know Rob, seems they are pricing us out there too (food) .. thankfully when my old truck goes I do have the advantage of living in a city with awesome mass transit (for going to work), I already walk to the grocer/dollar store/drugstore all within two blocks of my apartment.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Just imagine when it'll be saving for a car, fixing a car, mass transit, AND food. I better get one of them in line.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 16:50

No when this car goes there will be no more for me, as it is I only drive two days a week now .. food is a challenge these days, really need a wee plot of land to grow on. :)


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I'm so glad for the extensive affordable mass transit in NYC. Used by the poor & the rich alike from day to day you'll never guess who's on the NYC subways, Anderson Cooper, Meryl Streep, Jake Gyllenhal & his sister Maggie have been spotted numerous times, Byonce, Hugh Jackman someone actually has a blog for celebrity subway shots.
$2.50 Can take you from the Bronx 10 Miles down to lower Manhattan or all the way to the airports in Queens or the beaches in The Rockaway's.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

We have three old cars. Fortunately, usually two are up and running well at any given time. Still beats a car payment!

Nobody uses mass transit here. Pass a bus any time or day of the week and it's nearly empty.

Human greed has a way of messing things up, but capitalism is still the best economic system around.

BTW, have you heard the new foodstamps ad? I can't wait to hit retirement so I can enroll in the program! :-P


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Valley Metro's ridership stats conflict with your statement, houseful.

Here is a link that might be useful: Valley metro


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Funny thing about statistics, they can be manipulated. 54 million people last year? The population of our metropolitan area is only about 1.5 million. What's wrong with that picture?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Funny thing is facts is facts and you cant refute your original assertions


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I gave up my car when I relocated and walk or bike everywhere. This is a bike-friendly city and also has a good mass transportation system. I am glad I live downtown, in a safe part of the inner city. I can walk and/or bike to grocery stores, cafes, shops, the library, the riverfront parks, the marina, and the college.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

That's right. My original assertions cannot be refuted.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Many of our former transit runs were eliminated, or number of stops, hours of service and days of service were reduced due to numerical justification issues.

Just getting to and from the bus stops is an issue for many, so people without vehicles, or access to vehicles generally take taxis.

We constantly see nearly empty transit buses in many regions.

Since many riders are seniors, disabled residents and public assistance recipients, poor and low income residents, ridership is modest early in the check and foodstamp cycle, then drops of sharply mid month.

As non working, poor, low income and part time workers without transportation have less and less money to spend, transit and taxi usage frequency has dropped.

One of my tenants is a part-time transit and taxi driver in a poor local urban area. His hours have been dropping as many of the customers are food stamp recipients that now push carts of groceries throughout the cities rather than take the transit or taxis.

He also has a side business collecting shopping carts and returning them to the stores.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

"That's right. My original assertions cannot be refuted."

Uh oh. Folks who note Democrat failures here find themselves on the receiving end of very personal attacks. Are ya ready? :)


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Markjames, where do you live? Just curious. Here, in Charleston, SC, our city buses are often packed.Tourists and students ride the buses, as well as seniors. General cost is 85 cents, one way. Students with ID ride free. If you are 60, you can take classes at the college and get a student ID.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I can ride to/from work for free. Our buses are packed! They just don't go everywhere I need for them to go. Although, it's getting better. There are buses here that run to the outer suburbs that are express. It's still multiple dollars for one way though. I thought about bus once, a long time ago, and realized, it'd be almost as costly as the gas I use monthly. It wasn't worth shutting down the car. But my friends (lawyers who have moolah!) ride the buses. And so does my son, and we're poor. How's that for the gamut? I'm just being selfish for the car, but I've already lost every other material thing. I'm not thrilled about losing the car. It can be done, but who wants to?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I think this piece does a real disservice in it's agenda to make it's ideological point. For one, do their "anti-poverty" programs match up with what the governmet would call "welfare" spending? I see they include medicaid and tax breaks. That said, not surprised in the least that spending is up although I cant confirm the 41% figure anywhere that isn't a blog, etc.

The piece ignores the fact that we have decades of stagnant wages coming home to roost with the jobs shipped out. It says get a job...any job...well guess what if you work at Walmart - the world's largest employer - you are in poverty still. Worldwide recession, unpaid for wars and tax cuts and decades of greed have brought us here today.

I can say I am thankful for the extended unemployment benefits for my family but this has ended. The article paints a picture of being too comfortable in poverty. That says so much.

I would love to see a contrast on how muuch we spend on corporate welfare...subsidies and tax incentives etc and also "defense/war" to give us a better perspective. The decline of the middle class and unions is well documented as more people become poor after the housing collapse brought to us by Wall Street. Record profits and record suffering.

I am proud to live in a country that has safety nets for the weekest among us. But this we see changing before our eyes as we move towards being a country of haves and have nots with the haves blaming the have nots. I read the entire study and they do say it they offer no alternative to managing poverty in America....why? Because the purpose of this piece is not to work on issues and problem solving, but only to perpetuation the right wing meme that Obama is the "food stamp president".

What would your solution to poverty in America be or Romenys?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon testified on Capitol Hill today for the second time in two weeks, appearing before the House Financial Services Committee to discuss the trading debacle that has cost his bank billions of dollars. Before the hearing, Bloomberg News pointed to a new study showing that JP Morgan Chase receives a $14 billion annual subsidy from the U.S. government. This subsidy is due to JP Morgan's reputation as a too-big-to-fail bank, which lets it borrow money at lower rates than other, less systemically risky banks:

JPMorgan receives a government subsidy worth about $14 billion a year, according to research published by the International Monetary Fund and our own analysis of bank balance sheets. The money helps the bank pay big salaries and bonuses. [...]

Here is a link that might be useful: link that will lead to bloomberg link


 o
mass transit

In my county, the public transportation system was just privatized. Our county executive is hell bent on selling off all our assests to fill short term budget gaps. Our sewage systems are next. Guess who is handled all this? Morgan Stanley with Park Strategies (Al D'Amato former NY Senator and crook) brokering the deals and making millions.

It won't be long before we have to pay "per flush"...not to mention they wanted to bring in fracking waste from other parts of the state to process here. One drop of that in our bays and you can kiss our safe water and ecosystem goodbye. But hey! They need to make a buck, too!


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Markjames, where do you live? Just curious. Here, in Charleston, SC, our city buses are often packed.Tourists and students ride the buses, as well as seniors. General cost is 85 cents, one way. Students with ID ride free. If you are 60, you can take classes at the college and get a student ID.

We bounce between homes in Saratoga, Lake George and The Great Sacandaga region, but the transit runs I'm talking about are in Fulton and Montgomery Counties.

This is where people need transit the most as they have the 1st and 3rd highest unemployment rate in Upstate New York, plus some of the highest poverty rates in the state.

It's very common for residents in these regions to have no parking, no vehicle, no access to a vehicle, no driver's license and no savings/assets/credit, so walking, taxis and transit are their only options.

Many roads and drivers in the area aren't bike friendly, nor is its safe to walk, or bike through many regions.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I wonder when/if the US economy and regulatory environment will allow the 'private vehicle public transport' model, like one finds in so many 3rd world countries. Basically some guy with a mini-van, driving a route he figures out and can change at a whim, picking up and dropping of people along the way. Sort of like an airport shuttle service, but for a daily commute.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

The DC/MD/VA area has "slug lines" - sluggers wait in designated areas and catch informal carpool rides with someone going their way. Driver gets to use the HOV lanes. Not too unlike the idea in david 52's post.

We have excellent bus sevice here - can't think of any area not served or where one can't catch a bus within a block's walk. Most of the busses have the bike racks, too, so one can ride out to the bike trails, parks, etc.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

More and more of our current and projected future job growth is in home based healthcare/homecare (nurses, HHAs, PCAs, CNAs).

You need a clean driver's license and reliable personal transportation to work many of these jobs traveling between clients' homes.

You can't even get a local pizza delivery job without a reliable vehicle.

More and more employers state that workers "Must Have Reliable Personal Transportation" as well.

Forget most underground economy jobs and self employment opportunities if you don't have a vehicle.

Try carrying a lawnmower, gas and other tools on the transit.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Craigslist has a ride-share category.

Doesn't seem to be too busy though.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ride Share


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Yes poverty levels are unchanged that's the fact in spite of increased spending that's a fact.
The left out factor was the shedding of 2.6 million jobs brought about by gambling in the market, give away tax cuts.
I hope your not suggesting less spending & bigger tax cuts would have changed the poverty line?


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

"I hope your not suggesting less spending & bigger tax cuts would have changed the poverty line?"

No, that's a much too simple approach.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

The poverty problems stem from globalization of the economy don't they? If so, US citizens aren't likely to ever be back up to the levels they once lived before. Depressing!


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Nope. Along with no taxes for 'job creators' we have to embrace "free trade" as the solution to everything, including getting rid of poverty.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

In 1849 the potato crop in Ireland failed, not for the first time but more thoroughly than ever before and in parts of Ireland other grain crops also failed. This was not just an Irish thing. It was happening in Europe at the same time. As a for instance Belgium( and other European countries) prohibited the exportation of any food..owners were not allowed to export food crops to make money if the people who grew that food were starving. That didnt't happen in Ireland though the disaster continued for 3 years they continued to export food,-grains mainly. The attitude of the British government was that "you get what you subsidize" There were way too many lazy feckless Irish and now they were going to have to pay for their sluttish ways. It would be a good opportunity to clear off inefficiently used land and besides it was Ireland's problem. Irish property owners(mainly English) paid into the "Poor tax" based on how many people they had on their property, so to keep from having to pay out money to support these starving people they evicted their tenants which the laws of the time allowed even when all your rent was paid, so starving people roamed the roads and upward of 1 million people died and about 1 1/2 million left the country often in such poor health that they did not survive the journey-as many as 1/4 of the people could die on the trip. The source of the problem was the failure of the British government to act as a government. The primary support for the people was private charities who set up soup kitchens. They had no way to rehouse the homeless and a meal a day didn't make up for that. The only other option was the Work House-a place so feared that most people prefered to die. To qualify you could own nothing and they split up the families, husband wives and children would never see each other again. You got a subsistance amount of food and had to work at grueling jobs in horrible conditions and could never hope for better unless some relative could rescue you. Does this have a Conservative Republican ring to it? You get what you subsidize? According to Houseful's bible 'the poor have always been with us' so I guess that exempts us from trying to help the individual poor.

So two other points. The States as a whole have been cutting their share of welfare programs due to budget short falls-is the Federal government trying to make up some of the difference?

We know from previous posts that government expenditure always grows at a faster rate under Republican governments-this is a irrefutable fact inspite of beliefs to the contrary. It is surely a matter of what the money is being spent on. With 8 years of Repbulican rule behind this increase perhaps it was time? Government spending will always increase with an increasing population-we have an increasing population and lately we have had an increasingly poor population due to the global economic melt down..so....logic here...


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

I find the OP to be distasteful, a needless repetition of very a provocative Right Wing talking point that seeks to send a racially tinged message that Obama is giving all your tax money to the blacks, the Hispanics and the poor.

I found Mark James comments to be very useful in demonstrating some of the difficulties that people encounter when trying to escape poverty.

Since the 1960's Republicans have said that because we still have poverty at around the same levels, then that somehow proves that spending money to help the poor is a big waste. This is an absurd argument that I do not even want to waste time addressing. Of course we need to provide food, education, and maintain some degree of humanity toward the poor, the sick, and the unfortunate. Reducing the relatively small amount that we spend on social programs is really a provocative suggestion, especially when calling for more tax breaks for the wealthy out of the other side of one's mouth.

While continuing to provide a safety net, we need to address a lot of structural issues that contribute to a permanent underclass, lack of equal educational opportunities for the poor, and of course, the continued discrimination and segregation that we have in many parts of this country that contributes mightily to the problems.

Back in the late 1960's the all white school district that I lived in fought school busing like it was a wildfire. Now that inner city public schools have been allowed to crumble after the white flight our of the city, they are dismantling public education, the last and best hope for many young people in those neighborhoods to get an education.

Republicans really need to get off the welfare queen nonsense and stop the race baiting garbage against Obama.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Thank you Patricia Trevelyan's laissez-faire approach is Ryan like. Subsidizing the poor ran the risk of interfering with private enterprise. In those day the Liberal whigs were big believers in the free market & the hands off approach.

"Trevelyan also claimed that aiding the Irish brought "the risk of paralyzing all private enterprise." Thus he ruled out providing any more government food, despite early reports the potato blight had already been spotted amid the next harvest in the west of Ireland. Trevelyan believed Peel's policy of providing cheap Indian corn meal to the Irish had been a mistake because it undercut market prices and had discouraged private food dealers from importing the needed food. This year, the British government would do nothing. The food depots would be closed on schedule and the Irish fed via the free market, reducing their dependence on the government while at the same time maintaining the rights of private enterprise.'

The cheap corn meal also caused incredible ammounts of suffering as it was nearly indigestible.

The ships that brought it needed no ballast for their return voyage they were loaded with people being shipped to Canada & the US. The Notorious coffin ships.
History has been here before with the free racketeering nonsense.
It was an early version of Arbeit Mach Frei on a national level. If you could get a public works job you might eat.

Disraeli described it thus
" "a starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and an alien Church, and in addition the weakest executive in the world."
there had been hundreds of studies and at lest 60 commissions prior to the Famine that predicted the worst.
Gee this is reminiscent of (can't put my finger on it)

Here is a link that might be useful: wnat to eat work


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

the weakest executive in the world

I think you are a closet Republican.


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Heri context context your not reading no ones attacking your precious the filth that you suggest that I might be a republican


 o
RE: Poverty Levels Unchanged Despite Increased Spending

Lack of reading comprehension skills surfaces again....

Thanks patriciae and labrea for your enlightening posts. History repeating itself?


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Hot Topics Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here