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fat syrup

Posted by pnbrown z6.5 MA (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 13, 12 at 16:08

So, finally, a study showing surely that HFCS is quite different from cane and beet based refined sugar, even when eaten in large amounts. HFCS causes much more rapid weight gain and without exception on all test subjects.

Pretty scary. A cripplingly large percentage of the population will be invalids before long. A civilization taken down by sweetener, greed, and round-up.

Get crops in the ground.

Here is a link that might be useful: rats love it too


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: fat syrup

And here a summary of a study indicating that significant and chronic fructose consumption leads to compromised mental functions.

Here is a link that might be useful: sweet dope


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RE: fat syrup

So ..... you're saying that waddling around, spending the day slurping a 64 oz HFCS-laden, artificially colored and flavored sodas, one after the other, correlates with lower intelligence?


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Well, Dave, far be it from me to ponder the intelligence of soda-slurpers. I eat too much organic cane sugar for my brain to adequately process that idea.....


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"finally" being the key word...data proving that HFCS is any more dangerous than other types of sugar has been sparse, to say the least. I'll withhold judgment when further studies come out.

I don't really think civilization will be full of invalids. I see no evidence that is happening or will happen. Rather alarmist if you ask me.


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I don't think it's at all alarmist to question what our FDA put its stamp of approval on for human consumption... especially when we find out that for years, it had the Food Pyramid upside down.

One we take a look at how many lobbyists the food and ag industries have in Washington working hard at persuading the government approval of deceptive labeling techniques, chemicals in our foods, and everything else... it's not a far stretch to think maybe it's all the sugars or the types of them that are part of our obesity, diabetes, heart disease, blood pressure, and other problems.


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Wall-E humans


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"I see no evidence that is happening or will happen".

Have you been to a shopping mall in anyplace, USA or Canada lately? Sometimes half the people I see are barely ambulatory. The population is headed rapidly for a health crisis. There will probably be a point where between invalids and those caring for them there will not be enough workers to do everything else.


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I don't really think civilization will be full of invalids. I see no evidence that is happening or will happen. Rather alarmist if you ask me.

Really? Do you read the medical news much?

Here is a link that might be useful: JAMA: The Continuing Epidemics of Obesity and Diabetes


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I'm not sure what world some of you live in, but I personally am not surrounded by invalids, nor do I see an inundation of invalids. It's just so odd. There are worse problems and worse plagues than obesity, if you ask me.

Sometimes half the people you see are barely ambulatory? How bizarre is that.

"between invalids and those caring for them there will not be enough workers to do everything else."

That, sir, is alarmist. Just because a person has diabetes does not mean they are an invalid that can't contribute to society via employment. Likewise, just because someone is obese does not mean that they can't hold a job and contribute to society.

If you ask me, it's a very snobbish attitude to have.


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Being obese and diabetic or pre-diabetic at a young age is a real problem, not snobbery. It is a serious trend moving through the demographic; when it reaches a certain average age all hell is going to break loose because there will not be enough functional and productive workers.


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There's a whole lot of money to be made selling HFCS.

There's a whole lot of money to be made selling diabetic drugs and supplies

There is a whole lot of political gain to be made by shouting "freedom! " and "nanny state! " when anyone suggests doing something about it.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 14, 12 at 8:28

.....diabetes is increasing in our young. Someone (not me I will be gone) will have to take on the care of them one day and/or this could just be the answer to the population explosion. With no healthcare available to a large portion of the population, well....

Off to work
See ya


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There is a whole lot of political gain to be made by shouting "freedom! " and "nanny state! " when anyone suggests doing something about it.

*

The government should not restrict what people can or cannot eat, or how much their exercise.

If enough people suffered the consequences of their actions, after a generation or two people would change their
behavior.

Got Type II diabetes because you gorged yourself on pizza and soft drinks and weighed over three hundred pounds for twenty-five years and wouldn't get off the sofa to exercise, against all medical advice? Lost your legs because of it? Buy your own scooter or get your family to pick you up to haul you to the doctor.

You get more of what you subsidize.

That's evident every time I take my mother to the doctor.


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"There is a whole lot of political gain to be made by shouting "freedom! " and "nanny state! " when anyone suggests doing something about it."

There's a whole lot of government funding and control to be gained by shouting "crisis!" whether the "solution" is banning Big Gulps, or ordering men to sit while they pee.


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At the link below, there's an interactive map showing the obesity statistics for adults from 2004 to 2010. More than one-third of U.S. adults (35.7%) are obese.

There is also a map at a different page showing the statistics for childhood obesity.

When you use the search tool within the CDC website, entering key words 'high fructose corn syrup', it bring up a plethora of articles and documents to read.

One that I located indicates that between our less active lifestyles, and the amounts of sugars we, as adults and children, consume on a regular basis, obesity and health issues are likely to occur due to the fact that sugars offer no nutritional value, are more or less empty calories, and because we're more sedentary, tend to build up as fat cells.

Is high fructose corn syrup bad for you? Studies done would indicate that in very small doses, probably not... but the amounts of sugars in general consumed by the American population, combined with its more sedentary lifestyle, can be very hazardous to our overall health.

The entire CDC website is loaded with information suggesting that the overall American diet and exercise combination keeps at last a third of our population obese and unhealthy.

And that's only one website. There are thousands out there open for research on the various issues of sugars, caloric intake, obesity, diabetes, genetic predispositions, etc...

Without a myriad of information researched, it's impossible to make an informed decision... one can't simply guess based on opinion.

Here is a link that might be useful: Adult Obesity Facts


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"The government should not restrict what people can or cannot eat,..."

The government says I can't put weed in my brownies. How far are you willing to take this? How many current restrictions on what people can eat should be lifted?


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I think it must be a lifestyle thing. We have been in France for three weeks and I have yet to see an obese person....not to say that everyone is super thin but honestly I have not seen anything like what I routinely see in Canada and the US.

Eating out is a national sport but it's not fast food. There is the odd McDonalds but not many. Their idea of fast food seems to be a fresh baguette, some cheese and a beer or wine. The restaurants are jam packed in the evenings and trust me the menus are not "light".

What is the difference? Here is what I've noticed. People walk or bike every where. They almost always have a salad either at lunch or dinner. Tons of fish and veggies....yeah ok tons of sauces too. Very little soda but lots of water.

They also shop daily for their groceries and the " super marches" are Amazing in their choices of fish, cheese, and produce.

Having said that, here in Bordeaux there is literally a chocolatire or patisserie on every corner...that and amazing ice creams that are closer to sherbets.

Got to go .....we are off to a food and wine celebration in old Bordeaux
.....and not an obese person to be seen.

:-)


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 14, 12 at 13:01

Here in America the Four Basic Food Groups are hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza and pie.


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Chase, I bet if you go to a less tony area and look at the younger kids you'll see the fatties. The disaster is kidsxHFCS. Later in life it isn't as devastating.


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"here in Bordeaux there is literally a chocolatire or patisserie on every corner"

Oh, dod, you're'a torturin' me!


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I imagine, given not too much time, France could catch up to us.

Here is a link that might be useful: From NPR


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Americans seem to have different eating habits than many other nations. Our portion sizes are huge. We don't tend to thoroughly chew our food. We tend to wolf down large amounts before our stomachs can get the message to our brains that we're full. We snack at night or eat dinner as our largest meal instead of breakfast. We don't eat a ton of fruits and vegetables and fresh items. We don't move around a lot. We drive or ride, consume too few meals of large size. And we eat at the wrong times.

I think the proper way to eat for our health is to eat smaller portions more often... to exercise... to make breakfast the better meal... and to eat fresh, more natural food items.

And on that note, just having finished a small portion of oatmeal, I'm off to work.


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Say what you will, I'm telling you the diet thing it's totally different than in North America...and our travels take us beyond the "tony" areas. As a matter of fact I'd say the opposite it's true...the les s affluent areas eat out less and it is more natural to see people shopping in the markets for fresh foods. There are virtually no fast food places outside of the large cities...none.

We have an issue in North America with fast foods and convenience foods and it's our fault that we choose what we do....


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Say what you will, I'm telling you the diet thing it's totally different than in North America...and our travels take us beyond the "tony" areas. As a matter of fact I'd say the opposite it's true...the les s affluent areas eat out less and it is more natural to see people shopping in the markets for fresh foods. There are virtually no fast food places outside of the large cities...none.

We have an issue in North America with fast foods and convenience foods and it's our fault that we choose what we do....


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With Chase's post in mind I think culture plays a large part in this death by blubber scenario. I go to a market in Montreal and it is fun watching Italian women buying fruit, a vendor trying to pass off something substandard is in danger for his life. Eating is a serious business, as is value for money. In France there are celebratory mealtimes and nothing in between, when I first came to Canada 20 years ago I had never seen people eating or drinking in the street before, day long browsing is not a French thing.

Then you have this strange notion that Demi promotes that says that you can offer something for sale and if people buy it caveat emptor and if they suffer as a result well boo frickety hoo.

Some time ago the British government regulated food labeling and every additive carried a number prefixed by E. A friend of mine whose mother owned a HFS gave me a book that listed three columns of E numbers: those benign, those 'iffy' and the bad ones (there wasn't a column for 'beneficial'. I decided that I would throw away everything in my 'fridge with an E number in the last column when I got home. It may surprise you to learn that I only had potatoes left and today I am not sure that they would be safe.


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"Got to go .....we are off to a food and wine celebration in old Bordeaux
.....and not an obese person to be seen."

Chase, What did you discover in old Bordeaux? What foods and wines did you enjoy? Did you go to a variety of of places? Was it indoors and outdoors? What was the celebration like? Was there music? If forgot...do you speak French? You and DH must be having an amazing time. and I am very envious!


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chase, I'm so envious. I know you must be having a great time.

The French also have very little litter on their highways. We traveled about 1,000 miles in 2006 and saw litter twice. I attribute that to their recycling (we saw recyle bins at junctions of small backroads) and the lack of fast-food restaurants and especially no drive-ins. Where we stayed, in Provence, you had to "eat in" at the McDonald's which was inside a mega-store in a nearby town. No drive-throughs there.


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That sounds so cool. Here, even on the walking trail through town, there is an incredible amount of "fast food" and assorted beverage containers discarded between the trash cans placed every 200 yards. Disgusting.


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There is so much to be said for mindful eating. Eating at mealtimes, honoring your food and yourself - not mindelssly eating in your car or on the street. When I see someone wolfing down something on the train or in a car, I really think, you could not make the small amount of time to eat that properly? I don't buy it.

Wasn't there a book not that long ago...The French Paradox? Bottom line, triple creme and all they are eating whole food not processed crap. Also, don't they add something to the wine that gets exported that they don't have there? So much better there...is it tanins...sorry mind blank.

Chase, curious about the state of smoking there? French women seem to have an effortless style.


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Go right now to the front page of the nytimes and look at the video still, showing a young kid in Iran standing with his parents. The kid is overweight in a typical north american fashion (these days). Apparently mickey d and HFCS has made it's way to the middle east, even.


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Someone (Silver?) posted a link way back, about obese people starving themselves to death actually. Can't find it...does anyone else remember?

There's also a direct correlation between obesity rates in the Western world and starvation elsewhere.

Either way, one needs to follow the money.


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I should not have referred to "Old" Bordeaux....all of Bordeaux is old and oh so beautiful.

The food fair was fun....terrific people watching. It is all outdoors under tents and umbrellas. Local restaurants and bars create a mini version of their establishments and serve a much scaled down version of their menus.

I speak enough Drench to get by in must situations but not well enough to have a proper conversation.

As far as the smoking goes, I find it appalling. Everyone seems to smoke and they smoke as they walk. I'm forever dodging cigarettes!


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I should not have referred to "Old" Bordeaux....all of Bordeaux is old and oh so beautiful.

The food fair was fun....terrific people watching. It is all outdoors under tents and umbrellas. Local restaurants and bars create a mini version of their establishments and serve a much scaled down version of their menus.

I speak enough Drench to get by in must situations but not well enough to have a proper conversation.

As far as the smoking goes, I find it appalling. Everyone seems to smoke and they smoke as they walk. I'm forever dodging cigarettes!


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..."about obese people starving themselves to death actually."

I can almost believe this. Unless they are not completely forthcoming in what they eat, many obese people I know are under their caloric requirements. I was always taught "calories in/calories out" as the bottom line. That seems too simplistic now.

One friend would only eat egg yolks, white bread and butter for breakfast, a diet soda and a small bag of corn chips for lunch, and no dinner. Yet, she was and still is huge.


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I always maintain that these grossly obese people did not exist in my parent's era. Some overweight, yes, but not grossly obese.

Human anatomy has not changed vastly, so the only explanation is diet/lifestyle and exercise, of lack of.

There are also genetic body types, i.e, people of German ancestry tend to be a little more stout in frame and people of Asian descent tend to be shorter. Of course, there are exceptions. Also, there are a larger percentage of smokers in countries like France or Japan and we know smoking keeps weight down.

Aside from that, if I lived in France and ate pastries, sauces and other rich foods and walked all day long, I would still be very fat. My biology would not allow me to get away with that.


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I lived in France and recall how slender the people were (are) as a rule. I also remember well how they ate healthy meals, with lots of vegetables, and took their time, enjoying conversation around the table.

I've read "The French Paradox" years ago and believe it to be true. Another worthwhile read on this topic is "French Women Don't Get Fat". I forget the author's name.

As was noted, French people walk and bicycle a lot more than Americans, in general.

redsox, I agree, people of our parents' generation were not obese. I've got old photos of my relatives from that time and they were all thin, with one exception. Many had their own farms and gardens and worked hard physically. They were anything but sedentary in their lifestyles.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 15, 12 at 16:42

Our country and our lives are run by corporations and what fills their coffers is the priority. Big Food tells us to eat junk into the night and a great many of us are happy to answer the calling. Piled high tremendously fatty sandwiches, expansive pizzas, towering soft drinks and sweetened, creamy (and hydrogenated) coffees are everywhere. Just stand in a checkout line to see how it is.

Still lots of smoking going on, too.


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Here is a tasty brazilian treat, rich as heck but much healthier because it's made with manioc:

Take about two cups of manioc flour (mandioca super fina in a brazilian market), two cups of grated parmesan, mix together well, and knead in heavy cream or evaporated milk slowly until it's like pie dough or biscuits. Roll into balls about the size of golf balls and bake at 375 about 15 minutes.

Unreal!


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No one is forcing me to eat the fatty sandwiches, pizzas with lard-filled crusts or muffins the size of Chicago. Just because they offer it doesn't mean anyone has to eat it.

Don't eat it; they won't make it.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 16, 12 at 16:04

Lack of Personal Responsibility is not the full extent of the problem nor does it let the sirens of sinful eating completely off the hook. Rubbish foods dominate the advertizing and the aisles because there is lots of money in it. You have to make quite an extra effort to eat right because the majority of the marketplace is not interested in you doing so. Many outlets do not have a single worthwhile item on the menu.


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bboy is quite correct - it is way too much effort for the average person in terms of time and means to eat at all healthily given the modern food supply. That is not a good or acceptable situation, and the USDA is not doing much about it.


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Not only that, but I don't where people live that has a health food or organic store on every corner. I sure don't live anywhere near one, and even if I did, I would not be able to afford the prices.

It's not just a matter of that tired old talking point, "personal responsibility". It's also a matter of availability and affordability.

If I were "personally responsible" in every single thing I ate, I'd have to walk out of the local grocery store pretty much empty handed and starve for part of the time. Luckily, I eat a mostly different diet, consisting of 100% nutritional meal replacements for athletes, and supplement it with some fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and some wild game. There's not much else to choose from. I have to watch what I eat because of some allergies, lupus, and a dental issue or two.

At least 90% of the items offered in most grocery stores contain some kind of chemicals, processing, preservatives, dyes, and other ingredients that people haven't a clue about. One should not need a degree in chemistry to grocery shop.

Now, if I were on the public dole, I might be able to afford to eat better.

In fact, maybe one of these days I'll get so sick of hearing about personal responsibility that I'll be personally responsible and take better care of my body, by not over working it to the point of breaking further, and I will responsibly go fill out the necessary forms to receive the help of public aid that I am fully entitled to. Yes, that sounds like a very responsible thing to do.


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HFCS is one of something like 10,000 artificial food additives that are legal in this country - tests to establish food safety are no where near as rigerous as stuff like pharmaceuticals, and who invisioned that subsidized HFCS would be in 3/4 the products sold, and that obese kids would be getting half their calories from thie stuff, now so cheap they sell 800 calorie 64oz big gulps for 88 cents?

Freedom to exploit biological cravings for vast profit.

The system is rigged so that someone has to prove that it's dangerous before they do anything about it, and here we're seeing the battle played out. Remember cigarettes?


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Well, it may getting close to proof that HFCS is a public health hazard.


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Some choose to live where they cannot grow their own vegetables.

Some choose not to live where they can fish and hunt and raise chickens and provide their own fowl, fish and meat

Some live where they can provide their own food but choose not to.

Some choose to live where the kinds of foods they want to eat are not readily available.

We are a product of our decisions.

Personal Responsibility, not blaming others, is the key to being as healthy as we possibly can.


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We don't all get the same choices and opportunities in life... choices in where we live, where we work, what our bodies will allow us to do, and other choices that healthy, wealthy people have. Remember that.

Yeah, I chose lupus and injury and chronic pain over health... I chose a fire that destroyed everything I owned... I chose to live in poverty... I chose it all.

Good grief.


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We choose where we live.

I don't see anybody with their feet nailed down.

Don't want to leave family? I didn't.
I did because I wanted to be able to take care of my own family.

Don't like living in a city?

Quit your job, relocate and live in the country and grow a garden, fish and hunt.

Don't like living in the country?
Relocate.

It might take awhile if you need to sell a home, but people can always do that in time, or take a loss. People that are renters can wait till the next rent cycle and they're free to go where they want. Churches sponsor people in new towns, but really--immigrants have come here for years with not knowing the language and only coins in their pocket and have been wildly successful.

People have can diseases and handicaps and live in different places. There are doctors in every state.

As I said, we are all a product of our decisions.

To say that we don't have choices is just not true.

Life is a series of tradeoffs--and we make them every day.
We should not complain about the lives we construct for ourselves, or at the least, that we allow to "happen" to us without effort to change.


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Yes, its the responsibility of the individual to carry out Doctoral-level research on each of these 10,000 food additives, cut through the well-funded propaganda and advertizing to find the truth, ignore the addictive properties, and eat healthily.

No more job killing regulations about healthy, non-poisonous food!!!


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Yes, its the responsibility of the individual to carry out Doctoral-level research on each of these 10,000 food additives, cut through the well-funded propaganda and advertizing to find the truth, ignore the addictive properties, and eat healthily.

No more job killing regulations about healthy, non-poisonous food!!!


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Carrying out Demi's logic a bit farther, if we all took full personal responsibility to eat healthily, there would suddenly be 7 billion gatherer-hunter-fishers on the planet.

I wonder how that would work out? Point being that we absolutely must have massive-scale agriculture and food processing, but it doesn't have to produce sheerly garbage as it does. Oversight agencies are funded and exist, they may as well do their job properly.


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No, not everyone can live where they can grow vegetables. That is just not practical reasoning. Yes, there are huge profits in selling crappy foods.

There are also huge profits in pushing medications on the general populace....money making supercedes the hippocratic oath. I truly believe this in most cases. A doctor has never told me to get off of any medication. I have asthma and was able to lower some of my doses and wean myself off of others like singulaire. No doctor ever told me to wean myself down to lower doses. That would mean fewer appointments and less money for them.

No one deserves lupus, Jodi, no one deserves cancer. But I still maintain there is a degree of personal responsibility in not choosing the cigarette, not choosing the giant muffin. When I was single, I used a very small budget for groceries and I still ate healthy food. No one is forced to eat junk all day.

Have you ever seen Extreme Weight Loss or whatever that show is called? The morbidly obese people on there are consuming thousands of calories per day.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 16, 12 at 23:44

Nacho Doritos = Processed Corn chips coated with cheese flavored heroin. Wash em' down with a 12oz coke containing 9.5 teaspoons of HFCornS, yummmmm, it's what for supper.


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This abstract of a very deep analysis of food consumption patterns is well worth reading. HFCS as a single enemy is less implicated than corn products overall, but only post-1994 data, which strongly implicates GM corn.

Bang you're dead, Monsanto.

Here is a link that might be useful: fatty bt corn


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A new study.

"But in February 2012, a group of researchers at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, published a study of a "meta-analysis" that looked at data from 41 different clinical trials with HFCS and sugar.

Their conclusion: HFCS was no different than sugar on weight gain." See link for source.

Me? I believe it's lifestyle. People don't move enough. Everyone sits on their butt all day. Kids have longer school days, little to no PE, less recess and don't ride their bikes or walk to school these days. Homework, computers and video games take up the remainder of their days. But people like to blame something and the food industry is handy. I absolutely love this going around Facebook right now. So true. LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: The Source


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The reality is that there is feedback. If one goes to Hooters every day (or watches network tv in big doses) then there isn't much chance of getting ta-tas off one's mind. Similarly, when fast-food garbage makes up all of the restaurants in an area, which is very common these days, and highly-processed junk that is primarily built around GM corn is the only food sold in an area, which is also very common these days, then simply saying that people merely need to stop eating that stuff is a very weak argument.

What is somebody living on minimum wage or a welfare check going to buy instead? In central florida IME some of those types keep a hog in the backyard, an example of self-reliance but not a big improvement over a bigmac, since the hog is mostly fed with GM corn from Nebraska. It is immensely difficult to get out of the food-net.


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So, people can just move anywhere they want? Really? Since when is moving and housing free? Is this a recent development that only a few people are aware of?

Since when do people that DO eat healthy and QUIT smoking not qualify as responsible? Is this another new development that only the few have been told?

Or are these talking points given out at the last GOP news conference?

Some folks have a messed up idea of what it is to live life that doesn't include everything they've ever wanted... but luckily, money still can't buy a few things...


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  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 17, 12 at 10:16

Amen Jodik!


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Perhaps Canada is very different than the US but one simply could not choose to live wherever they wanted. Particularly not in rural areas, there are simply no jobs and little affordable housing . Land suitable for agriculture or husbandry is extremely expensive.

I think one of the biggest obstacles to good eating amongst the poor and working poor is the physical access to fresh food. In Europe there are little bakeries, markets, fish mongers and butchers....not to mention cheese shops on every block. It its so easy to pick up good food on the way home from work.

In the larger cities and towns in Canada you need a car to access most grocery stores. Only the must affluent downtown neighbourhoods have food stores and they are hugely expensive.


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Perhaps Canada is very different than the US but one simply could not choose to live wherever they wanted. Particularly not in rural areas, there are simply no jobs and little affordable housing . Land suitable for agriculture or husbandry is extremely expensive.

I think one of the biggest obstacles to good eating amongst the poor and working poor is the physical access to fresh food. In Europe there are little bakeries, markets, fish mongers and butchers....not to mention cheese shops on every block. It its so easy to pick up good food on the way home from work.

In the larger cities and towns in Canada you need a car to access most grocery stores. Only the must affluent downtown neighbourhoods have food stores and they are hugely expensive.


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Concerning moving, we see many people that claim they can't afford to move, yet in reality, they can't afford "not to move". They'd be better off moving on their own terms, but unfortunately many are forced to move via physical eviction, often leaving behind most of their possessions.

The cost of doing nothing, or too little is often extremely high.

Many unsuccessful people have something in common - they tend to argue for their limitations and/or they listen to others that argue for their limitations as well.

"Those that ague for their limitations get to live with them"


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It is more accurate to say that sometimes the cost of doing nothing is high. Other times the cost of doing something is high.


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Caloric consumption is estimated to have increased 20-something percent from the 1970s (mostly from grains and fat) while exercise and activity levels have dropped.

The percentage of food consumed away from home more than doubled in the same time period.

I've spent much of my life working long hours on jobsites, on the road and managing multiple businesses, households and assets, yet still "Made The Time" to prepare healthier than average meals, workout and play hard.

I've never really purchased many meals away from home due to poor choices, time issues and high price.

I've done a lot of hunting, fishing, boating, motorcycling, snowmobiling, hiking, camping etc, plus I've lifted weights most of my life, so I'm used to preparing food to take with me due to availability issues.


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On a positive note for obese and out of shape people, we've created many jobs in the service/a$$ wiping economy that require little physical effort.

As long as the workers can waddle to their cars and waddle to work, they can still be somewhat productive.

It's amazing how many workers in the health care industry are obese.


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Completely missing from various parts of this debate are common sense, comprehension, and empathy... the truth in life is... every single person is different, and no two stories or lives are exactly the same. What one person can do with ease and a credit card, another can't.

But It's not expected that everyone will understand that, or even know what it means.

The only thing not missing is greed.


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RE: fat syrup

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 17, 12 at 10:12

So, people can just move anywhere they want? Really? Since when is moving and housing free? Is this a recent development that only a few people are aware of?

*

I didn't say housing and moving were free.
Why would they be?

I didn't say it was easy.

I said no one's feet are nailed down.

There is nothing stopping people from saving a little money (smokes money, drug money, internet access money could all be used for this savings), packing up, and going to a different locale, living in a car, inexpensive motel, YMCA, YWCA, or getting a church to sponsor them, working several jobs to get the money to do so, and "start over" where they can obtain the things they're complaining about not having access to.

I could do it tomorrow and I could do it on a couple of hundred dollars.

As long as we are able to think, talk, walk, see and hear--which most all of us, if not every person on this forum can do--or have ways of compensating for any losses in this regard, we possess the power to change our lives in any way we want, at least in this United States of America.

None of it has a thing to do with having access to a credit card--people accomplished a lot more before credit cards came into existence--but then, they sacrificed. True sacrifice. Credit cards aren't a good idea anyway except for emergencies.

Getting what you want from life is not always easy.
Again, why should it be?

Of course people have different lives and different backgrounds. The important thing is how we live our lives and incorporate these factors into our lives, and how we do not use what happens to us in life as an excuse for not having the life we deserve and want.

Can't pick up and leave because one doesn't want to miss family nearby?

You've made your choice.

Can't pick up and leave because you don't have the money to start over?

Puleez. I just explained how you can do it. Get a bus ticket and start over.

Can't pick up and leave because your spouse doesn't want to move?

You picked your spouse. No one made you.

If one wants the easy way, continue complaining about how life isn't fair and not everyone has the same background and continue to make excuses why life isn't what one wants it to be.

I was told as a young child that adversity builds character.

In 2012, I think adversity has produced a large number of resentful whiners.


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RE: fat syrup

Demi, do your comments have anything to do with the prevalence of HFCS and other ubiquitous garbage pseudo foods?


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RE: fat syrup

  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 17, 12 at 16:16

What reality do you live in Demi?


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pnbrown--as much to do with the subject as the whining about not being able to eat healthy.

My point is always the same--it is personal responsibility, and not blaming others, that is the one factor we control in what we do with and to our bodies, where we live, what we do for a living, how we spend our time, and how we view life.

Make your own ketchup and you don't have to worry about high fructose corn syrup, you can put those "evil" corporations out of business if you have the guts to back up what you say you believe with your actions.

Does it take more time to make your own ketchup or more money to buy non high fructose corn syrup ketchup?

Of course!

I can guarantee you can make a year's worth of ketchup in the time any of us wastes on this forum in one day.


That's what personal choices are all about.

You want what you can afford? You want convenient?

Then THANK those "evil" corporations for giving you a choice in the matter.

And for those that would actually like to make a dollar, start your own company selling low priced, non high fructose corn syrup ketchup and products--at the farmer's market. You don't need a lot of money to do that, just can and sell your product. If it takes off--there's the American Dream waiting for you if you choose to take the opportunity.


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The short version of Demi's diatribe: "Let them eat brioche". A longer version has been presented here for years now as has been the more realistic rebuttal, there is nothing to be done other than marvel at a person living in the 21st century who seems to genuinely believe the qwap.


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The difference is, ink, is that everyone is free to pursue their own happiness in this country.

No is is prevented from making their own ketchup, marketing it and selling it and becoming one of the 1%.

So, you want brioche?

Make it or earn the money to buy it yourself.

No one is stopping you but yourself.


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I know a bit about making and selling products locally, no lecture required.

Both sides of the coin exist: the food giants need to be controlled, and individuals can make better food choices.


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The quote, "broke is a temporary situation; poor is a state of mind" is so true! I've witnessed this just observing family members.


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RE: fat syrup

I was watching the BBC tonight , and they were reporting that the obese rate in USA is 75%. I'm sure I heard it correctly. They were speculating that if it spread to all the other countries, (American's uncontrolled eating habits) it would be like adding another billion people in the world.

Growing one's own food isn't that easy. Even with someone like me who has almost 1/2 acre, I have a forest of trees which I'd never ever cut down. It's a wildlife sanctuary and keeps the house cool in the summer. But a local company gave garden plots to whoever wanted them. I think there are over 100 and this company provides the raised beds , water and tools. We are harvesting crop after crop eating as fast as we can and giving away the rest. We've always grown at least a dozen tomato plants but this is our first really producing garden with over ten veggies growing. If more communities and companies did this and educated people on how, there could be real benefits. Who ever got fat on peas?

Looking at old pictures in my family going back to 1850, there are no fat people. There still aren't. My mother who lived to almost 92 walked every day of her life before speed walking was a trendy thing. She weighed 100 pounds her entire life.She was an excellent cook and made the usual fattening foods always with desserts when I was growing up. But my dad was over 6' and weighed 145 so it didn't affect weight. Know why? Because we weren't siting on our butts. TV was on from 7-11 every night, period. I walked, at six years old, four miles a day. One mile to school and back for lunch and back and forth again. I had no fat friends. I raised my kids the way I was raised and they are both vegetarians and super athletes and that's translating into the next generation. My skinny grandson spent the weekend winning a national soccer tournament in another state and raced home to go on a sojourning trip down the creek for three days and night. More kids need to do this.


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My co-worker is over 6 feet and weighs about 138. These kind of anecdotals say nothing about why there is so much obesity in the population, other than that there are multiple factors.

This blaming the whole problem on laziness is the same as blaming it on an inability to say no to mickey-d. It isn't that simple, or if it is that simple it doesn't change the fact that we are going to have an economic collapse due to a health disaster.


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I think the cost of food is a big factor.
Food is relatively cheap in this country, cheaper than it is in Europe.
When I was a child, the food budget for most people took up a larger percentage of income than it does today. People just didn't have the money to overeat or eat out the way they do today

My husband, whose blood sugars have slipped up into the pre-diabetic range in the last year ( no , he is not overweight) travels a lot for his work and it is almost impossible to eat the way he needs to eat in restaurants. It really highlights the fact of how bad the American diet is.


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I do think you misheard with a 75% obesity rate in the US. The CDC reported the US rate at 35.7% in 2010.

Nonetheless, a third of the adult population is troubling.


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Demi, applying the "personal responsibly" response to all that ails is an easy and cheap short cut that requires no thought on issues on your part. Lily, your children and grandchildren are very blessed and privileged in their opportunities. Traveling out of state for sporting events is not an option for many families.

Appetite for Profit linked below by Michelle Simon:

How are our food choices both personal and political?
Poor eating habits are not personal failings, but rather the result of a social and economic environment that does not support making healthy food choices. Making personal dietary improvements is just one component of social change. We must also bring about reforms that will support people in making healthy food choices over the long term, as well as help them create a more just, humane, and sustainable food system.

Our industrial food economy, led by an increasingly small group of transnational food conglomerates and buffeted by corporate-influenced government policies, is the root cause of a host of preventable public health, environmental, and social justice problems. Over the past century, this system has helped move whole plant foods away from the center of the plate, replacing them with a highly processed, animal product centered diet rich in salt, sugar, fat, and chemical additives. The social costs of this development have been profound. They include a worldwide epidemic of diet-related diseases such as heart disease and diabetes; ecological devastation stemming from unsustainable agricultural practices; and the widespread exploitation of farm and food industry workers. Because of these troubling social, public health, and environmental costs, a diet based on whole, unprocessed plant foods, and policy reforms that would make such a diet accessible and affordable to all, are whats needed.

One of the biggest false assumptions implicit in the personal responsibility argument is that most people can simply choose to eat healthy foods. But the reality is that most people do not have access to fresh produce and other whole foods. Usually the people who make such statements live in privileged neighborhoods with a huge supermarket and maybe even a natural food store and/or a farmers market. This is the exception rather than the rule. In many areas, the only choice people have is their corner liquor store or mini-mart, where food options range from Coke to Doritos.

Lots of good stuff to wet the appetite in the link below...I agree with pnbrown, it is a large and complex issue with many factors and is no doubt our biggest threat.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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I agree eating poorly is cheap in NA but eating well is not. At least not in my neck of the woods. The only time I can say that food is reasonably priced is produce, in local markets , during the summer.

Frozen entrees, meals in a box or can is cheap and fairly unhealthy but for many that's all they can afford. Preparing healthy meals from scratch isn't just about the cost of the ingredients. Its about access, availability and time.....just ask most university students.

I home can a lot and it is anything but cheap unless you are growing all your own ingredients. Let's take the ketchup example. Having to buy the tomatoes, vinegar, spices, jars never mind ensuring the proper canning appliances and your time....I doubt I could can a bottle of ketchup for less than I could buy it in the store, especially on sale.

Having said that, there would be no comparison in quality and taste.....just saying home canning ain't a cost saving thing....unless you grow your own.


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RE: fat syrup

Back in the early 90s we had 1 obese relative. (oddly enough, this relative lost weight gained muscle and is currently in better shape than 90 percent of the population). Currently we have over 20 obese relatives in our non-immediate family.

All of them have the same issues/causation - they don't exercise and consume too many calories for their height, structure and extremely sedentary lifestyles.

All of them have numerous healthy and healthier food choices, but they don't take advantage of them. They don't like to plan meals, prepare foods, cook, freeze etc, so they consume a lot of prepared foods, processed foods, fast food, take-out, delivery etc.

To add insult to injury, most of them live in poor or low income households that really shouldn't be wasting money on expensive processed foods, prepared foods, fast food, restaurant meals, take-out, delivery etc.

They choose expensive processed food options due to speed, convenience and taste, not price.

The root cause of their obesity is simply a lack of discipline. They don't have the discipline to stick to a life-long nutrition and exercise program.

Their healthcare costs to taxpayers and property taxpayers is incredibly high as most have incredibly high direct and indirect costs due to weight/health/fitness/employability related issues.


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Maggie, that's it in a nutshell... right on point.

But it would never do for the "personal responsibility" crowd, because that would skew the entire picture they've built in their heads, and lay waste to the tightly woven reasoning for their behaviors.

I just ran across a quote from Elizabeth Taylor, that goes, "Remember always to give. That is the thing that will make you grow. If not to make the world better, what is money for?"


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Chase, you're exactly right. Eating well is NOT cheap, but does get better in summer when local produce is fairly reasonable compared to imported in the cold months. For instance ,I was paying $3.99 for 1/2 pint of blueberries and now it's down to $2 or 2.50 for a whole pint. But this is strictly for me. It would be exorbitantly expensive to feed a bunch of kids blueberries.

I think some inner cities are taking vacant lots and in the poorer neighborhoods getting the residents started on gardening. I give Michelle Obama a lot of credit trying to influence parents and kids with her WH garden and book.

Bloom...I know..that's what got my attention. I am almost positive this BBC anchor said that, and it's a wrong statistic. They were showing waddling people over there, and said it's a growing trend and will take so much more food to supply the world while others starve.

Maggie I know my kids and grandkids are privileged to be traveling out of state for sports. GS goes all over the east coast and daughter goes to marathon cities and son will be in Vermont and VA biking the next two weeks ..BUT that said, I walk out my door and do my 3 & 1/2 miles. Parents who don't have the means should get their kids to the playground, it costs nothing to take them on walks or picnics. IMO, there is no excuse for sitting on your behind, and eating fast food.


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Back in the good old days when British merchants took opium from India and sold it in China and the Chinese leaders sought to stop the trade, the Brits told the Chinese "Personal Responsibility"


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the Brits told the Chinese "Personal Responsibility"

And they proceeded to fight two wars over the issue, with China on the losing end and punished by the Brits. Then on to the Boxer Rebellion...


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 19:32

And now it's the Chinese who are empire building.


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RE: fat syrup

No one forces anyone to eat unhealthy food, Demi is partially right. I make a conscious choice to go to McDonald's at lunch instead of making something from scratch, freezing it, and taking it to work all day. No one forces people to gorge out when they eat at restaurants. It's all a matter of choice.

Demi is also partially right about picking up and moving. My one friend is amazing...you could drop her in the middle of a field and she'd make a life for herself within a week wherever she went. Not all of us have that resolve or the skills, so we do things differently. It's a choice.

And some of you must be either lying to us or lying to yourselves...I have a sinking suspicion that not every single person on this thread is a healthy eater all the time...

I'd like to go back to some of the comments near the beginning that the wonderful pnbrown made...I think it is offensive to diabetics that you seemingly believe that diabetes = invalid. Give me a break. People can function perfectly fine with diabetes; in fact, many do. It's just a plain old insult.

Weight and eating habits are an individual's responsibility....if people are fat and eating poorly, they will eventually die early, or they will lose the weight and eat healthier, and live longer. Those are pretty stark consequences, if you ask me. Each person is generally in control of their destiny in that regard.

My partner and I are somewhat overweight, and we eat too much fast food. But in the past year what I've really been concentrating on is making food from scratch when possible. To me, that is more important than dieting. Eating something that hasn't been processed a million times and tastes nothing like it should is unappealing. We enjoy our home-cooked meals, they are more satisfying and filling, and they are more healthy. Everyone has their own method to sustaining their bodies.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 19:56

And I think

How are our food choices both personal and political?

was right on the money.


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Gibe me a break (don't hate me because I'm wonderful?). I am talking about the startling percentage of the population that is overweight and out of shape and pre-diabetic at such young ages that by the time the late 30's to early 40's come along there is no possibility of just snapping out of it.

An epidemic becomes a major problem for everyone, so it is appropriate to give it attention. If this same problem were being caused by a virus I reckon it would be getting a heck of a lot of attention.


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Diabetes is an epidemic and growing by leaps and bounds. On the Biggest Loser show and other weight loss ones, most all are fairly young and almost all are diabetic or pre and didn't even know it. After they lost the weight, they weren't.

On ABC news tonight , they said stomach by- pass is resulting in 30% of people becoming alcoholics because the alcohol immediately gives a buzz..


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Here's the truth:

There's a fast food joint on just about every corner in every city. The same does not apply to stores that sell healthy food items.

When you have a family to feed on a very tight budget, it's less costly to choose from the dollar menu at McDonald's or Burger King than it is to find a place that sells healthy goods for the same price... because that can't be done!

Then we get into knowledge... not everyone is a scholar when it comes to what's healthy and what's not. And not everyone has the cooking options of those with huge, well appointed kitchens, or the knowledge of how to properly stretch that dollar and create nutritional meals.

It has little to do with personal responsibility, and a lot more to do with food availability and affordability and knowledge.

There are food deserts everywhere. And more empty calories and chemicals and processed foods available at less cost than there are healthy foods. There are also places where you can't just take your kids outside every day to play. Or hadn't this crossed anyone's mind? There are neighborhoods that are gang run and dangerous, lacking the beautiful parks people talk about.

I can't believe some people refuse to acquiesce that this nation has a problem with its food sources, availability to the public, cost, and all the other variables at work.

How many times must we have this same conversation about food and obesity and health, and our own government's complicity in allowing it to happen?

In order to understand the issues, we must look beyond our own neighborhoods, and think about life in others. It's not the same.

Granted, there are many people who know certain foods are bad for them, but lack the willpower to stop eating in such a manner. So, yes, there are people who throw their own responsibility out the window... but this does not apply to all persons.


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I think it is offensive to diabetics that you seemingly believe that diabetes = invalid. Give me a break. People can function perfectly fine with diabetes; in fact, many do. It's just a plain old insult.

Truly, I find this shocking! Do you have an idea what diabetes does to a person? Cataracts and eye surgery, loss of a toe, a foot, coma...dialysis. I have seen this progression in adult onset and can't imagine what will happen to these children with adult onset diabetes in their teens. It is not good. I'm sorry this is the reality and diabetes is so hideous, you can have it in check for many years and it can suddenly attack again.

This is the biggest threat to our society and national security.


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Many people are simply consuming too many calories. They either have to consume fewer calories and/or exercise more and live less sedentary lifestyles.

Caloric needs for much of the population has dropped substantially as they do less physical work, walk less, drive/ride more, exercise less, watch more television, surf the internet for hours, play video games for hours, sit more etc. It gets worse and worse as technology makes life easier and easier.

Although caloric needs have dropped substantially for much of the population, caloric intake - especially grains and fat has increased substantially.

Here's the latest from the USDA Economic Research Service (ERS), which tracked the percent of total daily calories of the range of food groups from 1970-2007.

* Meats, eggs, and nut kcals decreased 4%.
* Dairy kcals decreased 3%.
* Percentage of fruit kcals stayed the same.
* Percentage of vegetable kcals stayed the same.
* Flour and cereal product kcals increased 3%.
* Added fat kcals are up 7%,
* Added sugars kcals decreased 1%
* Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.

The biggest issue most of our obese relatives and friends have is calories from fat and grains. Their added sugar is actually down, but they love their pasta, bread, cereal, hamburger, bacon, sausage, eggs, mayo, dressings, oils, shortening, margarine, cheese etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: The bitter truth about fructose alarmism


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IOW, Mark, they love their GM crops. It is likely the reason for the mad increase in dis-health since the early 90's. Increase in calories is simultaneous.


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There are different types of diabetes. The fact that this disease is on such a fast track to high numbers in children and teens should be alarming to us!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Basics of Diabetes


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Someone recently told me the healthiest way to read food labels. Buy food that doesn't have them!! It really works!


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When talking with my daughter's endocrinologist (my daughter is type 1, so hers is an autoimmune problem), they noted that the youngest patient they had with type 2 was 4 years old. That is scary.

Personal responsibility is a commendable thing, but when it fails, there are consequences to others. While I doubt that eliminating HFCS from the food chain will eliminate all of the problems with health in America, perhaps regulating it can provide some benefit.

While gardening is wonderful and enjoyable, it is often not inexpensive and can often not be as simple as just putting a seed in the ground and watering it. I also love chickens, and we have just started keeping 4 this year for eggs, but I will not come ahead of the supermarket prices unless I am able to significantly supplement their feed. I can also purchase fryers cheaper than I could produce them.


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markjames, I agree about the sedentery lifestyle and the issue being the taking in of too many calories. Many people do not seem to know about portion control and supercise their plates. But on your list, you have 3 foods that are quite healthy in moderation: eggs, cheese, cereals.

I think Americans in general need to get up off their butts and get moving: dance, walk, play, do yoga, tai chi,skip rope, -- whatever.


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RE: fat syrup

I read an article in the NYTimes this morning about the importance of healthy microbes that inhabit our bodies and how science is beginning to understand the functions of this microherd. Among the findings is this:

"Other conditions potentially could be treated by manipulating the microbiome. Scientists have linked obesity, for example, to changes to the gut�s ecosystem. When scientists transfer bacteria from obese mice to lean ones, the lean mice put on weight.

How this happens is still unclear, but some studies suggest that an "obese" microbiome sends signals to the body, changing how cells use sugar for energy and leading the body to store extra fat."

Maybe there is something about hfcs that affects the microbiome that signals how to use sugar. No one really knows how gm organisms affect our health. Personal responsibility isn't much of an option since gm food isn't required to be labeled, so unless you get certified organic, you don't really know. Then with so much factory framed meat grown with antibiotics, you may be selecting a "healthy" cut and still be affected by the antibiotics.

The health of our food production is a political, not just a personal responsibility meaning society needs to demand accountability of big ag and require labeling. Can't see those who are profiting off the current system cleaning up their act without external pressure.

Here is a link that might be useful: nytimes


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Someone recently told me the healthiest way to read food labels. Buy food that doesn't have them!! It really works!

Not necessarily a plus.

There's no way of knowing if pesticides or herbicides have been used unless there is a label that states 'organic' or the stand at the farmers' market states 'organic.' CA is putting an initiative on the ballot that all GMO food must carry a label. Currently there is no label warning the buyer.


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But on your list, you have 3 foods that are quite healthy in moderation: eggs, cheese, cereals.

I sometimes eat a couple dozen egg whites per day for added quality protein.

I don't do dairy or gluten though, except for Whey Protein.


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There's no benefit to excluding gluten unless you are afflicted by celiac disease.


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Many people gain weight on gluten free diets...

I do agree about portion size. 1 cup of pasta is a portion - wow!


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Althea, check my second link in this thread. The effects of GMO on human health is becoming qualified. No doubt many more studies are ongoing.


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I think a bodybuilders diet (a couple dozen egg whites per day) is very bad for the health. In general the problem with obesity and other food related illness seems to be malnutrition. Drink a glass of orange juice and the sugar will be in and out of your system in no time, add a peanut butter sandwich to that snack and the fat, fibre and protein will slow down the absorption of the sugar. Balance seems to be the key.


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We do not eat processed or bleached grains, breads or cereals. We only eat eggs from local sources we know... when we eat them. I prefer the brown eggs, and sometimes we can get dozens of large double yolk eggs.

And I am careful of the fruits and veggies I buy... and I always wash them. We do try to grow some things, but there are many items we just can't grow.

But there are so many people who can't do what's healthy, or buy what's healthy... it's simply not available, affordable, and perhaps the knowledge isn't there when it comes to stretching a food dollar or cooking healthy.

It's very hit or miss out there... and in so many cases, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It simply isn't an option to eat the way people should.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 19, 12 at 18:07

My comment above about Nacho Doritos being coated with cheese flavored heroin isn't too far off the mark. There was a fast food documentary on a few weeks ago where in one segment a food chemist in the dorito lab admitted that their goal was to create a corn chip that when eaten it has an instantly huge burst of flavor which fades fast. Their flavor formula is timed so that when you chow down on one chip you crave that flavor just as soon as you as you finish swallowing the previous chip. They could most likely make the taste last longer but that would mean less profit, and we all know the importance of profit.


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Pat, di you mean the 3rd link about rise in obesity correlating to the rise in abundance of gm corn in food? The gm bt theory sounds like a good lead.

That makes Vgkg's heroin coated corn chips all that much worse. The dumb scientists haven't figured out that organic corn chips taste so much better, virtually no one goes back to doritos.


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PN, I hate to tell you this, but the study you linked to does not in any way prove or even attempt to prove that GM corn is linked with obesity:

"Our analysis showed that total calorie intake and consumption of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) did not correlate with rising obesity trends. Intake of other major food types, including chicken, dairy fats, salad and cooking oils, and cheese also did not correlate with obesity trends. However, our results surprisingly revealed that consumption of corn products correlated with rising obesity and was independent of gender and race/ethnicity among population dynamics in the U.S. Therefore, we were able to demonstrate a novel link between the consumption of corn products and rising obesity trends that has not been previously attributed to the obesity epidemic. This correlation coincides with the introduction of bioengineered corns into the human food chain, thus raising a new hypothesis that should be tested in molecular and animal models of obesity."

So, they concluded that HFCS did not correlate with rising obesity trends...although, oddly enough, they concluded that eating corn products was correlated with rising obesity.

They bring up the fact that it is a coincidence that in the same time period, bioengineered corn has entered the food stream for US consumers. However, as of right now it is just a coincidence...they are merely pointing out that it may be a point of further study.

Don't try to push your beliefs on everyone else when they are nothing but beliefs.


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Yes, HFCS in that regression analysis was ruled out as a single factor causing the continual increase in the rate of obesity, as were many other foods. That does not mean, of course, that HFCS is a good sweetener to consume compared to say molasses, or evaporated cane syrup; or that canola oil is healthy to consume on a regular basis compared to say, cold-pressed safflower or olive oil. The other studies on HFCS are valid, the rats uniformly gained weight and became unhealthier as compared to cane sugar.

I think we can safely decide then that HFCS should be avoided in favor of cane sugar, as if we didn't already know that. Regarding personal decisions. Regarding public policy, it is time for the FDA and USDA to stop being dominated by the food industry and actually look out for the public interest. It is likely that the data on HFCS is more than compelling enough to ban it. The data on GM products is rapidly accruing.


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VgKg, I've mentioned the fact many times that our food industry, it's largest corporations, have labs filled with chemists and techs dedicated to working on what appeals to the taste, smell, flavor, color, texture, and our other senses... it's not a bit about what's healthy, and all about marketing and profit.

Everything is. From the product, itself... right down to the packaging it's wrapped in.

Studies are done to find out what appeals to our senses... what we are most likely to purchase on a repeated basis... even package shape, size, coloring, writing, etc... right down to the ad campaigns designed to introduce new items and sell them.

Quite frankly, what our government agencies have allowed our food source to becomes sickens me... and it's the same with almost every industry... it's not about customer service and quality... it's about profit. Quality has taken a huge dive in favor of that bottom line.


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More scary information regarding pesticide residue in fruit and veg.

Here is a link that might be useful: dirty dozen


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 20, 12 at 16:45

Had to chuckle, my pop up ad today is a bag of potato chips and a pepsi.


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RE: fat syrup

Don't you mean a bag of air with a few chips in the bottom (some settling may occur during shipment), and a can of sugar water dyed brown? ;-)


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A can of HFCS solution with some flavorants. Mmmmmmm.....


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Did you know that the average weight of an American is 180 lbs and the world average is 136?

Here is a link that might be useful: how do you compare


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I am the same weight as the average adult in Bangladesh. I weigh less than the average adult in 177 countries, according to the charts posted above.

I don't care how much the rest of you quibble over sugar intake. For myself, I feel better if I avoid ALL sugar if possible. I try to limit my sugar intake to "natural" sugars found in fruits and juices.


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RE: fat syrup

I was thinking of the similarities of HFCS / sweetener consumption with tobacco consumption. So Tobacco started off with a few Native Americans passing around a ceremonial pipe and getting a nicotine high, and this habit then passed on to colonial Britain with those cute little silver snuff boxes, which eventually led to an occasional cigar after some big banquet. All of it considered a rare delicacy. Then along came corporate America, advertising, farm subsidies, factory production of dirt cheap cigarettes for the masses. And along came cancer, emphysema, etc.

So then we have sweeteners - honey would be the original, but that too was rare, you might get stung getting it, and only used for special ceremonies, wound treatment, and so on. Then there was sugar cane - if you've ever tried the original, it takes a whole lotta chewing effort to get much calories from it - in fact it might be pretty much a wash, calorie/energy wise. And along came sugar cane plantations, corporate farming, subsidies, and mass marketing of cheap sugar in everything. And along came diabetes, teeth cavities, etc.

Now with HFCS, we have the same subsidies, the same corporate production of absurd amounts of the stuff, its put in everything imaginable, and we have on obesity epidemic, all along with skyrocketing rates of diabetes, etc.

/personal responsibility


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RE: fat syrup

I'm with Woodnymph... I think avoiding as much processed crap and chemicals, and eating as naturally as you possibly can is the way to go.

Since I detoxified and changed diet, I feel so much better... and my weight is way under the American average, and even under the world average. I feel better, I look better... and I still deal with lupus, chronic pain, and am aging... so, I think there's something to be said for natural vs. processed.

Sure, I cheat every once in a while... but I don't make a habit of eating poorly... and it shows.

You know something is wrong when eating a fast food burger makes you feel sick for three days afterward!


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RE: fat syrup

pnb, couldn't agree more. Every word of your opening salvo!


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RE: fat syrup

I guess I belong in Bangladesh. This chart is amazing and a little scary.

People have to make a conscious choice to avoid processed foods,fast food, soda, and sugar laden stuff. The most I weighed in my life was 129 and that was the day before I had an almost nine pound baby. The day after I weighed 107. I lead an almost vegetarian life with a little salmon and chicken a week. Meat literally would make me throw up. Haven't had it for 30 years, but I feel way better now health wise than I did when I was a meat eater. I use no processed food and live on fruits, eggs, grains veggies which are really abundant now , water and very very few desserts. That way I keep my weight under 110 and exercise is fun not a chore.


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RE: fat syrup

Maggie, I did post a link that obese were starving to death, but I can't for the life of me remember where I got it from.

What I remember it saying is that because food has so little nutrition, the calories consumed were not fulfilling the nutrient requirements for a body, so while it's desperately trying to store calories (fat), muscles and bones are breaking down.

My mother told me diet sodas weren't good, HFCS wasn't good, to shop on the edges and not consume packaged foods from the time I was old enough to comprehend. 30 some odd years ago she had this info, and people just now are starting to figure it out. But she reads a lot. Most don't.

Anyone watch King Corn?


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RE: fat syrup

I'm vegetarian for the last 40 years and I weigh 196, work out, farm, jog, whatever, always 196 lbs. If one is not eating far too much or too little, and not eating a lot of empty calories, and getting regular activity, then genetics controls body weight, not country of residence.


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RE: fat syrup

Lean cat here, too.

What I remember it saying is that because food has so little nutrition, the calories consumed were not fulfilling the nutrient requirements for a body, so while it's desperately trying to store calories (fat), muscles and bones are breaking down.

Silver--ha! Severe malnutrition. Snoopy will find it, matter of time.

With a mere 25 corporations controlling the food market so where's the choice? There is none. It's practically one giant company store.

Cornucopia Institute has the details and the matching graph - embiggen here.


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RE: fat syrup

I remember reading about food deserts, about foods lacking nutritional value, empty calories, fat storage instead of tissue and muscle building, and how it all linked to obesity and other health issues.

We've discussed this several times over the last couple of years.


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RE: fat syrup

Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Thu, Jun 14, 12 at 13:01

Here in America the Four Basic Food Groups are hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza and pie.

I thought the four basic food groups were all in Irish Coffee - fat, caffeine, sugar, and alcohol.

/a complete meal, and so convenient in those little bottles.


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RE: fat syrup

Apparently everyone on this board is a thin and eats right...always.

I find it humorous. Either some people are lying about being thin and eating right, or the people who are not thin are not mentioning the fact that they are over weight (I would not blame them).

Some of the threads on here almost seem like a competition to see who eats best, who is healthiest....it's kind of sick.


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RE: fat syrup

One can be anyone they choose on the internet.

Thin, beautiful, young, smart, innocent.

Only the hairdressers know for sure!

;)


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RE: fat syrup

Thanks, krycek. But you've limited the "competition" to food. There's one-upmanship in parenting, achievements (self or children... everyone's smart, beautiful, talented), love of animals, love of fellow man, living in beautiful houses with weedless gardens and drop dead foundation plantings LOL - inside joke! on and on.

There's no one average on the internet; no one is just plain folks.


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RE: fat syrup

Thin, beautiful, young, smart, innocent.

Hello, did someone call me?


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RE: fat syrup

Since I'm a grandmother whose GD graduated college last month, I am not young, certainly not innocent, semi smart, beautiful, maybe back in the day when I did local modeling, BUT I am thin, (109 pounds )and have always been.


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RE: fat syrup

Am I playing your song, Ink?


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RE: fat syrup

Not my song Demi my description.


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RE: fat syrup

Kry, I'm not perfect by any means. But I do manage to keep my weight/muscle tone healthy. Because I like to be like that, not because of any standard. I try to eat healthy but right now I'm drinking jack and a beer- while washing dishes so I can preserve the fruits I froze a few months ago and forgot about... trying to can and drink... now if that's not a healthy combination! Divorce will do that, lol. I've been having a really hard time eating.

But I cannot eat packaged/HFCS/1,000 ingredient foods. They are not food. I do eat fast food every once in awhile, but again, not very often because it doesn't sit right.

Perhaps some are lying, or omitting. I had chicken fried steak the other day. Ate about 1/4 of it. Don't know how someone would finish the whole thing. It was delicious. Gravy.... yum.

I think that demographically those on a gardening forum would A) be over 30 (on average) and B) eat healthier than the norm. Simply because we are gardeners. We understand where food comes from.


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RE: fat syrup

I'm with silver and lily. I'm not perfect by any means, but I am fit, slender, at 108 lbs. because I want to look and feel younger than my age, which I do. I don't even like suggary desserts or foods with additives. I eat a lot of salads, yoghurt, some lean meats, fresh fruits, and try to inccorporate more and more vegetables into my diet. I really enjoy walking briskly, riding my bicycle, and exercise, in general. It boosts my mood. As does eating smaller portions. My indulgences are dark chocolate (rarely) and I enjoy a good glass of quality wine.


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RE: fat syrup

Krycek, does 196 lbs sound 'thin' to you? I'm stalwart.


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