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400 ppm

Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 9, 12 at 17:16

Pop open the booz! We broke through the 400 ppm barrier for atmospheric CO2. It seems like only yesterday when Maxter was telling me that these scientists couldn't measure anything correctly, not even temperatures. Back then we were topping 325 ppm CO2. The sky is the limit!
Guess you may have also heard in the news that this Spring was the warmest ever recorded.

PS, --- #102

Here is a link that might be useful: News source


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 400 ppm

Maxter and his "maxtrology, have also vanished from HT.

Seems like there has been a lot of that going on for a while now.

When Southern New England has a winter with barely any snow, one knows that something is not "right" and when my heating bill does nothing but drop in usage every single month during the heating season;

Well one knows there are some very, very strange things going on in the world.

Temps have been above normal in MA for months and months now.

It makes "us old timers" no that this is not normal, not good, and the odds are that it is a man made problem for sure.

Putting into the environment what isn't normal is never a good thing and will not bring about anything good.


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RE: 400 ppm

Is global warming responsible for over 1000 snowfall records set in 2010 in the US?


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RE: 400 ppm

The climate change deniers remind me of the flat earth club. Our October snowfall of seven inches was the ONLY snow we got here all winter. We had 80's consistently all spring. We planted early, then covered at the frost nights. We now, on the 9th of June, have 15 tomato plants which are as tall as me...5'6". We were remarking we have never had plants so big..even in August. Most have tiny tomatoes on them. Our other garden is way ahead of what it should be for this date. The only things enjoying this are the ticks and mosquitoes.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 9, 12 at 18:24

When the a/c starts running in February instead of May you know something isn't right.

Wonder what it'll take for the doubting Thomases to finally get it?


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RE: 400 ppm

Changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere: what could possibly go wrong?


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RE: 400 ppm

Strange that you never had toms get to 5'6 before. Don't suppose that has to do with global warming, though.

Yes, climate change undoubtedly has increased precipitation in many areas. Snow is a result of moisture. Unusual cold is not required.


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RE: 400 ppm

When I'm watching all my plants come out of dormancy in February, there's something drastically wrong. When we experience summer temperatures in March, something is very wrong. When my plants bloom out normal sequence, something is very wrong. When we had no actual snow stick on the ground all winter, and I didn't even have to shovel the sidewalk once, something is very wrong. When I'm forced to water my gardens starting in May, something is terribly wrong. And the list of odd occurrences goes on.

I live in zone 5. This is not normal by a long shot. The roses should be beginning their first flush right about now... not finishing it.

Common sense and logic tell me that the more we pollute our air, land and waters... the more holes we punch in the ozone... the more we change the landscape by ripping down entire rain forests and drying up swamp and wetlands, the more we ruin mangroves and suck anything valuable out of the earth, and the more overall pollution that exists, the more negative changes there will be to our planet.

Unless someone knows of another planet that will support life, I suggest we start taking better care of this one... before it's too late.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 9, 12 at 21:49

......have to say that even the "changing climate" is partisan, regulations for fracking etal the regulations are archaic. Of course they are, we have always had flamming water coming out of our faucets.

My only consolation is that one day Mother Nature will have her revenge and everyone will live with the consequences.


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RE: 400 ppm

Is global warming responsible for over 1000 snowfall records set in 2010 in the US?
Actually it probably would be There was heavy snow in South Africa a few years back. Weather & climate are related of course but weather is a feature of over all climate shifts.

"Climate scientists aren't at all surprised that there are more drenching rain or blizzards in certain parts of the country," says Dr. Brenda Ekwurzel, a climate scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS). "That's consistent with well-documented climate change trends over the past several decades. Unless we take some dramatic steps to curb global warming, we likely will see a lot more regional precipitation over the next few decades."

After statements like that the well oiled & well paid for engine of climate change denial usually goes into play with the yuck yuck factor pumped to the max. (why?)

I'm not a scientists but it's easy to see from old gardening magazines growing seasons & zones have changed but even that is still a feature of weather.


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RE: 400 ppm

Denial is a river in Egypt.


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A feature of climate change (GW roulette?) is that ending up in the wrong region will be a huge problem for people. The real kicker will be once significant numbers of people are forced on the move - homelessness on a huge scale.


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RE: 400 ppm

It's not just climate and weather patterns that are changing and becoming more severe... it's also the melting of polar ice caps that are causing water levels to rise, and the various poisons and pollutions are having an effect on our overall health as a species. Other species are being affected, too. We're even being affected at a genetic level, with predisposition to many things previously unheard of, which is rather frightening.

Because of humankind, normal migratory patterns have changed for many animals, others have gone extinct at our hands, etc.

If one steps way back and looks closely at the really big picture, a lot is changing at a very fast pace... which is not normal, as far as I can tell.


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 7:50

"If one steps way back and looks closely at the really big picture, a lot is changing at a very fast pace... which is not normal, as far as I can tell."

This article talks about "way back when"--

EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW
What Is a Dinosaur? : Anatomy & Evolution : General Behavior : Where Did They Live? : Why Did They Go Extinct?

Why Did They Go Extinct?
Introduction : Alvarez Hypothesis: Origin and Evidence : Effects of the Asteroid Impact : Other Extinction Hypotheses : Deep-sea Evidence for the Impact Hypothesis : Post Extinction Recovery : References

> Why Did They Go Extinct? 1 : 2 : 3 : 4 : 5 : 6 : 7
Introduction
Sixty-five million years ago the dinosaurs died out along with more than 50% of other life forms on the planet. This mass extinction is so dramatic that for many years it was used to mark the boundary between the Cretaceous Period, when the last dinosaurs lived, and the Tertiary Period, when no dinosaurs remained. This is called the Cretaceous/Tertiary (or K/T) boundary, and the associated extinction is often termed the K/T extinction event.The name "Tertiary" is a holdover from the early days of geology, and many geologists now prefer the term "Paleogene" for the time period that immediately follows the Cretaceous. These scientists refer to the Cretaceous/Paleogene or K/P boundary, which represents the same moment in time as the K/T event. Since their discovery in the nineteenth century, the reason for the dinosaurs' demise has been a matter of speculation and debate. Early paleontologists, working prior to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, suggested that dinosaurs represented the remains of animals that had perished in the Biblical Flood. This explained both the fact and speed of their disappearance. But as other extinctions came to light, and Darwin's theory gained acceptance, this explanation fell out of favor.

For many decades, the fossil record of dinosaurs was poorly known. During that time it was clear that dinosaurs had gone extinct, but it was not yet understood that this extinction was relatively sudden and simultaneous with those of many other species. Only at the end of the nineteenth century did paleontologists realize that nearly all dinosaurs had gone extinct within a brief period of time at the end of the Cretaceous Period.

For most of the next century, scientists focused on explanations for how the extinction might have occurred. Most theories focused on climate change, perhaps brought on by volcanism, lowering sea level, and shifting continents. But hundreds of other theories were developed, some reasonable but others rather far-fetched (including decimation by visiting aliens, widespread dinosaur "wars", and "pal�oweltschmertz"�the idea that dinosaurs just got tired and went extinct). It was often popularly thought that the evolving mammals simply ate enough of the dinosaurs' eggs to drive them to extinction.

Regardless of the details, most of these theories shared the common thought that dinosaurs were a group of animals that had reached the end of their evolutionary life. Their extinction was seen as inevitable, the product of having evolved for too long. In most extinction scenarios, the dinosaurs were simply unable to cope with competition from mammals and the changing climate, and so they all went extinct.

As dinosaur science began to alter this hypothesis, producing a new view of dinosaurs as successful and viable organisms, many of these extinction theories became less tenable. New information from fossil localities suggested that many other organisms, most unrelated to dinosaurs, had also gone extinct at the same time. New theories were required to explain these new discoveries and newly understood facts. A favored theory was that tectonically induced climate change interfered with food chains, disrupting them enough to cause widespread extinction among many different organisms.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 9:20

....anyone getting rain? Sure do miss the rain here, seems every time they "predict" rain we get little to none.

How are your gardens/farms doing?

Doing a small garden on the roof this year even though I said I wouldn't. Sowed some beans/peppers and herbs. Think I will plop some cherry tomatoes in a couple of large pots where the lettuce did not do well.


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RE: 400 ppm

Garden is overgrown with weeds, but what I've planted is doing well. Tomatoes looking great--a friend is bringing me tomatoes and squash twice a week from his garden and I've pretty much been subsisting on tomatoes and salt, my favorite and last meal.

Need to plant cantaloupe plants this evening.

We haven't had much rain at all, drought conditions.
I had sprinkler system activated this week, went outside yesterday only to find a leak they missed, water pouring over the driveway. I guess the pressure blew out the pipe and the pump stayed on. Turned off power to the pump so still no water to anything until that is repaired, hopefully Monday or Tuesday, unless I use hoses. I watched my husband repair enough I could probably do it and probably should learn.

Plumbing course on bucket list, along with electrical course. ;)

If I ever get water on the property I'll redo some beds.
I was just too busy this spring to get everything done outside. By this time of year people are already giving up because of the heat and drought. Not me, not yet.

I think we have a pretty good chance of rain the next few days. Maybe I should put on my Native American moccasins and do a rain dance !


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RE: 400 ppm

Sorry, thought this was the other thread about our gardens!

Carry on.

Never mind.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 9:43

No I am interested in the reply you made Demi, was just wondering if people were getting any rain.

Tomatoes sound wonderful ... I usually pig out on summer tomatoes because those winter ones in the grocer just have no taste at all. Salsa !

Have to check with my farmer this weekend and see how things are going for him ... my apple farmer lost his whole crop.

Bummer


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 9:52

A little dry here in central Va but a good rain is expected by mid-week. Picking our 1st tomato later today, that's 3 weeks earlier than normal. All veggies looking good so far, few insect pests other than one rabbit out there. Picking snaps, blueberries, squash, cukes, brussel sprouts. Peppers and eggplant in bloom. Melons plumping up, butter beans in bloom, corn ears swelling, potatoes near digging time. Steady she goes....


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 10:19

....some of you have probably seen this, but it seems we are in an "abnormally" dry spell here in NEOhio. This is updated weekly.

Here is a link that might be useful: Drought areas


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My farmer's market farmer of cherries and apples told me yesterday that they'll be lucky to get 2 lbs of cherries per tree this year (normal is 250 lbs). Apples wont be any better.

My fingers are crossed for the predicted tomorrow rain.


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RE: 400 ppm

More forest fires.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 10:32

jmc if you do not mind me asking (?) what area of the country are you in ?

We are promised rain tomorrow also, hope we get some.


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Wait a minute. I thought warming caused more moisture in the air.


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Which would explain the flooding now going on in the South East.

A conservative advocacy group says it's spending almost $1 million on ads to corral support for an upcoming Senate effort to overturn Environmental Protection Agency rules that require cuts in toxic emissions from coal-fired power plants.

American Commitment is running ads starting Friday in four states taking aim at "Obama's war on coal" - the phrase critics use to allege the EPA rule and other White House policies create costly burdens that will kill jobs and raise power costs.

The ads running in Tennessee, West Virginia, New Hampshire and Maine urge senators to support Sen. James Inhofe's (R-Okla.) resolution to overturn the rules that EPA finalized late last year. snip

Inhofe is trying to overturn the EPA rules - which require cuts in mercury and other emissions - using the Congressional Review Act.

The mid-1990s law allows lawmakers to nullify federal rules, and CRA resolutions are immune from filibuster, meaning just 51 votes are needed for passage.

-snip-
American Commitment is a recently formed group; Kerpen spent more than five years as a top policy and legislative strategist with the conservative group Americans for Prosperity.

Kerpen, in the interview, declined to say whether American Commitment receives funding from the coal industry. "We protect the privacy of all of our contributors," he said.

snip -

Critics of EPA say the air toxics standards and other regulations will together force closure of significant numbers of coal plants, harm the economy and jeopardize power reliability.

But backers of the standards call them vital public health protections and say allegations of economic harm are inaccurate.

EPA officials say the power plant rules have enough flexibility to address reliability concerns, and advocates of the emissions regulations point to reports from the Congressional Research Service and the Energy Department to back them up.

EPA estimates that the air toxics standards will prevent 11,000 premature deaths, 4,700 heart attacks and 130,000 cases of childhood asthma per year.

The agency has also pushed back on claims that the rules will scuttle jobs, instead arguing that requiring plants to install pollution controls will help create employment. EPA estimates that rules will create tens of thousands of temporary construction jobs and 8,000 permanent utility jobs. " end article

Not mentioned is that with the huge supply of natural gas now available, it is less expensive - and much cleaner - for the power companies to build new plants. Resulting in less-expensive electricity for consumers.

Can't find it now, but there was recently a push to have power consumers in these states agree to a 40% increase in rates so they can clean up the coal fired plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 11:06

The skies opened up this week. My rain gauge recorded 17" since Wednesday. Have been harvesting tomatoes for 3 weeks now. Unfortunately, with all the recent rain, the tomatoes are starting to crack. A few beefsteaks I picked this morning will likely rot before they ripen. Probably should have just tossed them in the compost bin.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 11:14

According to the "weather guys", we have had about one and half inches of rain in the past month :( and 5 to 10 degrees above normal temps.

No A/C here .. gave my small window unit away and have one fan. Looks to be like a "long hot summer".

Today we are looking at 90 degrees ... yuck


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Having a birthday bash today for my son, and it's already miserably hot and humid. It's itching toward 90 already . As I said my 15 tomato plants are my height now..5'6" and are covered with fruit but no tomatoes to pick yet. Done our first bean and pea picking. All the spinach and lettuce crops have bolted and picked and carrots planted yesterday.We've had a little rain days ago but are still way below in precip.


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RE: 400 ppm

Our Spring has been warmer than normal with hardly any days of June Gloom (foggy, overcast and highs in the upper sixties to low 70's). This is not so good for our back country where superheated air and strong winds have already dried out the vegetation. We received about half then normal rainfall this winter, saved by early April rains amounting to 2-3 inches along the coast and 3-6 inches in the mountains.

I've been irrigating the farm since late April on a regular "summer" schedule. We've been harvesting summer squashes, pole beans, tomatoes, and other "summer" crops now for 3-4 weeks, or about a month earlier than last year. I'll have sweet corn before July 4th (unless we do get fogged in.)

Higher atmospheric temperatures leads to higher absolute humidities (stored water, so to speak), and therefore great potential precipitation rates and volume. Of courxe airmasses are not uniform and some are subsiding and therefore warming and drying. Get a high pressure system parked over your piece of the earth and watch in vain for the range to report precipitation. Storm tracks slide around domes of high pressure.


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RE: 400 ppm

I read all these messages about the heat and wonder if I should complain. We have had one day, so far, over 80 F. It's usually in the 50's and 60's and we had to turn the furnace on yesterday and today to take the chill off. I planted only cold weather crops as this appears to be a repeat of the last two "summers". I'm quite sick of it. But, I guess I'll take cooler temps and the rain (we haven't had to turn on our sprinkler system yet and everything is looking really lush) over 90's and high humidity. I have a cousin in SE Nebraska who is a farmer and no rain there. So, unless things change, corn and wheat and soybean yields will be way down, meaning the cost of food will be way up.


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That nebraska corn and soy is gm'd to "round-up ready" which means it is de facto de-mineralized. Not worth eating, nor anything that eats it. So it's cost should be somebody else's problem, not ours.

Get crops in the ground.


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RE: 400 ppm

More info on the latest Colorado fire burning west of Fort Collins -

40 mph winds, 12 % humidity, 70 % beetle killed forests. Smoke plume is in Nebraska, 140 miles away. Not the haze, the smoke. Its making its own weather now.

My sister lives 8 miles east on the road leading into the heart of it, and they're packing up.


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It was only the 70's today in Atlanta and rainy. The weather is certainly unpredictable these last 10 years or so. No such thing as normal anymore.


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And they're out of there, mandatory evacuation.

Seems that your home owners insurance will pay for a hotel, as long as its mandatory.


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David, hope your sister and her family suffer no damage from this blaze.

I've had the experience of a mandatory evacuation, and it was terrifying.

There was no need to spend the night in a hotel since the brush fire roared through so quickly. Out by noon, back in by 11:00 PM. So many years have passed, and I no longer live in the chapparal, but I still search the sky for smoke during the Santa Ana winds.


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Truly hope the houses will be spared, David! Praying for the firefighters too!


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The big fire in New Mexico is taking most of the nations' air support. Colorado already has planes from around the country and Canada.

Today they will declare the Colorado fire a 'type 1 incident" which should pull out all the stops for a nationwide resource response. The huge fire in New Mexico is already a type 1.

But if any more fires get started around the west, its going to be a heckuva mess. Given the drought, beetle kill, record heat, lack of winter snow, and early onset, thats more likely than not.


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My heart goes out to all who are affected by this terrible fire. It's downright scary.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 11, 12 at 19:59

David hope all is well with your sister and her family ....

Rain fell south of us and out across the lake apparently, but not a drop fell at my house ... I cry FOUL !! (^_^)


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RE: 400 ppm

David wishing your family the best.


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My sister sent me this time lapse series of the fire, looking from the east

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 7:11

Scarey video ... those fires really move fast don't they. Hope they can get it under control.


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Farm update

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 12, 12 at 9:54

Farm update: as posted before my apple guy lost his entire crop of apples in the valley, he said a few trees up by the house have small, imperfect apples.

My farm family: lost their entire sour cherry crop along with peaches and apples, they were able to put the corn in early and are picking this week (unheard of in this neck of the woods)


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With record high temperatures (102 F) , single digit humidity and strong winds, the Fort Collins fire jumped the containment lines yesterday, headed north and east. Seven hundred more evacuations, and more homes burned. Weather will be the same again today, record highs, wind, and low humidity. So now it's already the 2nd largest fire in state history, beating out the Missionary Ridge fire in 2002, but behind the 2002 Hayman fire. What is of interest is that the fire conditions are now the same as 2002, but these fires are all at least a full month earlier than those of that horrible year.

Locally, the smoke from the fire burning north of Pagosa Springs was trapped in some sort of inversion, and there were warnings out last night all along the Piedra River to stay inside due to the dense smoke.

And 20 miles east of here, we have a new one, went from 3 acres to 3000 acres in 3 hours, filling the valley with smoke.

Of course, that 400 ppm CO2 has nothing to do with this, its just a natural phenomenon, one of those cycles, you know.

So vote Republican, and we can dispense with all this silly science studying climate change, take off the job killing regulations on coal plants, and put America Back To Work!!!


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 23, 12 at 10:37

......just read there is evacuation going on in Utah, fire caused by target shooting (?) possibly.


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Back to work doing what? Fighting the effects of what clearly cannot be climate change due to pollution and raping of our planet, I ask with sarcasm? But wait! There still hasn't been any word on how those Republicans hope to put America back to work... so we just... what? Wait and trust them, because they'll tell us after they're elected?

In all seriousness... I hope for rain, a stop to the winds, and anything that will help the area.


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Putting it in perspective ..

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 23, 12 at 10:57

......or mother nature's revenge.

The Supreme Court's upcoming health-care ruling, Sandusky's trial by jury, and this 68-year-old, bullied bus monitor aside, the big news everyone seems to be talking about this week is WTF is up with our nation's weather?

In northeastern Minnesota and northwestern Wisconsin, three days of torrential downpour forced nearly 300 people from their homes, drowned more than a dozen zoo animals, and caused $80 million in infrastructure damage. Fifteen large, uncontained fires are blazing in 10 states; in Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona, deadly conflagrations have scorched more than 400,000 acres of land. On the other side of the country, a giant heat wave is engulfing the Northeast and parts of the Great Plains.

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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7 billion people burning trillions of tons of coal every year have nothing to do with it. Its a natural cycle: think 15,000,000 years ago when the CO2 levels were this high.

Yo, Barney, lets go bowling!!! YABA-DABA-DO!@!


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RE: 400 ppm

I think it is always a good thing to remind people that with global warming theory the average temperature was predicted to go up about 2 degrees -yes my friends just 2 degrees and that 2 degrees will not be something you can feel-you would not notice it but it is enough to screw up the WEATHER all over the place and melt the polar ice caps. The unusual extremes of weather are what is going to become normal. The question has never been that global warming isnt happening-the question is what is causing it. I am of the opinion that you cant deforest entire continents and kill parts of the oceans without some sort of negative effect since it would appear that the ability of the earth to scrub the extra CO2 out of the atmosphere has to be impaired by that but I am not a climate scientist....this is mostly for houseful who appears to be a global warming denier-or perhaps someone who just needs more facts before deciding?


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Dave, you never fail to identify things that have no influence whatever upon other things...


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 23, 12 at 17:31

Fred's job was strip mining coal wasn't it?...or was that shale oil?


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Now this morning it's back to August weather in June. I'm not complaining. The last three days were grueling. If that were to become normal summer weather then might as well move back to florida....


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 24, 12 at 7:19

A few cool days here (70's) then back to the heat .. still not much rain, Cleveland is having it's longest dry spell since 1913.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 24, 12 at 9:33

Big storm hit here Friday, dumped 2" rain in 30 minutes with major winds that flattened my 3 corn plots. Corn all propped back up now. Good to get the rain but it seems there's almost always a price to pay for it.


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RE: 400 ppm

Red flag warnings out for the region again today, there are now 5 major fires burning in Colorado, 3 started yesterday.


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VK, that rain system just missed us saturday early am, sadly, needed the moisture. The mainland got soaked.


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"OH DEAR GOD.... this is terrifying."

That short post on Twitter captured the fear and horror that engulfed Colorado Springs on Tuesday as the erratic, fast-moving Waldo Canyon fire leapt into the western edges of the city, destroyed dozens of homes in Mountain Shadows - including the historic Flying W Ranch - and forced the evacuation of tens of thousands of people in the northwest quadrant of the city.

"This is a firestorm of epic proportions," Colorado Springs Fire Chief Rich Brown said during an evening news conference.

-snip

Officials in charge of fighting the fire said it was too early to pinpoint how many homes were destroyed, but starting in the late afternoon, police and fire scanners were filled with tales of multiple homes burning at a time. Firefighters went into "triage" mode, going past homes that were beyond help to save those that could be saved.

"We can't save this one structure, but we're going to save everything around it," one firefighter vowed on the fire department radio.

Coincidentally, the flames exploded as officials in charge of fighting the fire held an afternoon news conference to discuss their tactics and their concerns over the fire's rapid spread north around the Queen's Canyon area. The briefing was interrupted with a stark, horrifying announcement: Everyone in Mountain Shadows and Peregrine needed to evacuate immediately.

"This has been a very bad day," Mayor Steve Bach said.

"That fire exploded. Many of you were here when it happened. I was here," he said. "It exploded far beyond what could have been predicted." / snip end quote

And remember everybody .....

Photobucket

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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I am stunned at the ferocity of these wildfires. I've fought small wildlands fire years ago and understand well the strain of such epic firestorms on equipment and personnel.

Stay safe, David.


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RE: 400 ppm

The moving truck is showing up tomorrow morning to move our friends to Colorado Springs. The friends had planned to spend 2 nights with a family member out there after the drive. the family member was evacuated last night and that home won't be approved to return to for a minimum of a few days. Calling today for a hotel room wasn't fruitful - all booked.
The home our friends are buying next Monday and hope to be moving into Tuesday was still standing today, but who knows what happens tonight and tomorrow.

Under the best of circumstances, moving is stressful. Under these circumstances....I can't even imagine.


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The moving truck is showing up tomorrow morning to move our friends to Colorado Springs. The friends had planned to spend 2 nights with a family member out there after the drive. the family member was evacuated last night and that home won't be approved to return to for a minimum of a few days. Calling today for a hotel room wasn't fruitful - all booked.
The home our friends are buying next Monday and hope to be moving into Tuesday was still standing today, but who knows what happens tonight and tomorrow.

Under the best of circumstances, moving is stressful. Under these circumstances....I can't even imagine.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 28, 12 at 6:14

Stay safe David, cannot find it in me to whine about lack of rain when you all are facing this threat.

The heat is on in the city by the lake.


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RE: 400 ppm

Meanwhile, it's still the some of the nicest June weather in my memory here on the extreme eastern margin of the continent. Yesterday was cool and dry with a west wind, how is that possible when the heartland is fiercely hot and humid, over 20 inches of rain from a tropical storm system in the gulf coast, and the far west is burning up?


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Whoah Dave! Stay safe!


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RE: 400 ppm

The forestry people who specialize in wild fires have a measure of the flammability of the fuel load, a measure of the potential for a fire if an ember, cigarette butt, lightning strike, spark, etc hits ground. Currently at 100%.

Where I am, we're now getting dry lightening, which is starting up small fires all around - strong smell of smoke all night. The major one just east of us seems to be getting under 'control', we're not getting the huge pyrocumulus clouds every afternoon. And it looks as if the fire around Colo Springs is doing 'better' as well. At the link is a blog form their big newspaper that's interesting to follow, with rapid updates.

What a mess.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

That constant smell and sight of smokey air gets old. A few year ago, a small ranch fire got away and burned off nearly 500 square miles of wilderness country over some months. Structures on the margins were protected, often by backfires set to limit fuel loads of the major fire fronts.


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RE: 400 ppm

I went fishing today, on the way back saw yet another fire crew headed out. Heard on the radio that yesterday's dry lightening storm started over 50 fires in SW Colorado. Thats everything from a single tree to hundreds of acres. More storms this evening.

At the link is a column by a friend of mine re climate change and the fires.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

I think it was around '96, when I was working on forest issues in Clayoquot Sound, BC, that I met a young scholar who had written extensively on the positive feedback cycles of trapped CO2, forest fires and peat fields drying who would walk around, proclaiming carbon doom for us all. He would hang around the NGO gatherings, telling us that the coastal temperate rainforest would either flood or dry within a few hundred years unless we changed everything about industrial culture, so we were wasting our time fighting MacBlo, as the entire west coast was hosed by carbon pollution no matter what.

He did not get invited to many parties. Nor was he very popular even amongst activists, ecologists or academics. I owe that guy a hug. These Colorado fires are most likely just the beginning of a terrible wildfire season. I just looked at Inciweb and the number of active fires over 1000 acres currently is nuts! And in Indonesia, they seem intent on burning as much as they can on rubber & palm oil plantations right now.

So pray for some good old fashioned CO2 scrubbing by the ocean and terrestrial plants this summer, or we will zoom past 400 ppm so fast that it will leave you breathless! Kyoto and post-Kyoto failed. Rio, UNCED and Rio +20 have largely failed. I had a really nice day at the beach though yesterday, LA's weather has simply gotten more beautiful season by season recently during climate change. I'm thinking of taking up the fiddle, so I can play it as I walk barefoot in the surf. Because nothing is getting done, as the young genius said, until we change industrial culture. Which we won't, until forced to.

Here is a link that might be useful: wildfire Incident command (inciweb)


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RE: 400 ppm

Some areas of Florida got over 20 inches during this last storm (and one weather station near Sopchoppy reported over 40").


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 28, 12 at 23:33

Fiddling while Waldo burns?


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 6:16

Basically bboy ... JZ along with the rain looks like Florida is "falling apart", literally. Or is is not unusual for you to get sinkholes?

Heat is turned on, rain is turned off .. watering the rooftop garden twice a day.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 9:43

We're one of the real lucky homes that has power today. A major wind and lighting storm whipped thru the state around midnite and close to a million homes are without power, over 100,000 in my area. The lightning was like having a strobe light outside so I turned off the main house breaker to avoid surges, was surprised when I turned it back on to find it did come back on. Temps will repeat their 104F of yesterday again today and many without power will suffer a 110F heat index. Corn is a mess again but I can't complain since the AC is working.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 9:53

Burn ban for our area, no campfires/firepits etc ... dry as dust here. South of us got awesome storms with winds of 80 mph or more, downed trees and lines .. folks without power.

Walked to the store this morn, the ground looks like dust, even the russian sage that is drought tolerant is dying off. The dogwood tree in front of my window has few leaves left.

Some rain would be welcome. Highs in the 90's again. Yuck


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RE: 400 ppm

Sounds like a heckuva storm in the DC area, with more to come.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 6:16

"... looks like Florida is "falling apart", literally. Or is is not unusual for you to get sinkholes?"

________________

Wikipedia has good info on sinkholes. Not a global warming phenom--in part, Wikipedia's piece on sinkholes says:

"The state of Florida in the USA is known for having frequent sinkholes, especially in the central part of the state."

I used to live there, and new sinkholes, while always an unpleasant surprise, were not that unusual.


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RE: 400 ppm

All those bad storms missed SC. But the heat that lingered in the west and mid-west is finally reaching us today. Temps are supposed to be 100-101 for the next 3 days, with indices to 120. If this is June in the Carolinas, what will July and August bring???


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RE: 400 ppm

Warm here but still pleasant enough. Sounds like unsettled weather is on the way, though.


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RE: 400 ppm

For the climate change deniers, I hope YOU are one of the millions without power today in the triple digit heat. I'm seriously living with anxiety, so scared of what this summer will bring. We have already broken so many temp records and it's it's not even July. I am really scared and this is no way to live. We reached 101 yesterday and I hear it will be like this at least to the middle of July. When I walked the dogs at 11, because we can't even breathe in the middle of the day, there was a big lightning storm but we got not a drop. All around us but like OM, dry as dust here. The heat makes a person ill just being outside for two minutes so there are no activities to enjoy.

I live in fear of the power going out because if it does, I'll lose all my valuable koi in less than an hour.


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RE: 400 ppm

"Wikipedia has good info on sinkholes. Not a global warming phenom--in part"

It is caused by the lowering of the water table caused by drought. It is hard to say that could not be connected to climate change.

Here is a link that might be useful: Causes of sinkholes


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RE: 400 ppm

Well don't forget that the 'Heat Index" is an Obama conspiracy.


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RE: 400 ppm

The florida drought was overwhelmingly cancelled by the recent massive rain event, itself a likely climate-change indicator. Sometimes, fortunately, these effects cancel each other.


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RE: 400 ppm

"For the climate change deniers, I hope YOU are one of the millions without power today in the triple digit heat."

How sadistic!


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RE: 400 ppm

How stupid anyone who doesn't see this happening before our very eyes. The same people who believe the earth is 4000 years old.


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RE: 400 ppm

You're stupid!


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and....

and extremely mean!


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RE: 400 ppm

look in the mirror, houseful.


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RE: 400 ppm

[mirrors are the works of the Devil!]


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 11:53

For the climate change deniers, I hope YOU are one of the millions without power today in the triple digit heat.

*

I am so disappointed to see this statement in black and white.


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 11:53

"For the climate change deniers, I hope YOU are one of the millions without power today in the triple digit heat...I live in fear of the power going out because if it does, I'll lose all my valuable koi in less than an hour."

What!? "Your valuable KOI"?

Gee, Lily; maybe if you take your "valuable koi" to a cooling center (you know, where the "valuable human beings" go in an emergency heat wave situation), they'll let you keep your koi there.

And you think Romney has too much money to be in touch with real people?


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RE: 400 ppm

Note it is ok to call posters stupid, when they do it, that is.

Then again, it's likely projection.


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by maddie_athome (My Page) on Sun, Jul 1, 12 at 1:09

"Note it is ok to call posters stupid, when they do it, that is."

_____________

"they"?


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RE: 400 ppm

Projection? What a joke! Lily called me stupid; I gave it right back. What's the big deal?


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RE: 400 ppm

House, you really think the world is only 4000 years old?
I must have missed that.


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RE: 400 ppm

I called no one personally stupid . I guess the shoe fit. You specially called me stupid..against the forum rules. I am so tired of the right wingers denying climate change. They are the flat-earthers of yesteryear. The top news of almost any day is a weather catastrophe. So house, who homeschools, thinks the world is 4000 years old. Pity her ill educated kids.

In reality I do feel very sorry for the people who are without AC in this horrendous heat. It's just people like Rush Limbaugh and all the naysayers about climate change that I wish this on.

And Elvis..pipe in as you always do. Yes, Mitty and I are best friends. He has a little more money than I do but we still hang out and compare our koi. You are pathetic. Slam me for caring about my pet koi who eat out of my hand. Some I've had for 15 years. When we lost power last year, five of my biggest and oldest ones died very quickly . I'm glad you find that amusing. That make me one of the 1% because I can afford to buy koi at Petsmart.


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RE: 400 ppm

Owning a dog is more expensive and far, far more labor intensive than owning Koi!

I know several people who dug, created and stocked their own koi ponds Elvis, it's not that big a deal. Where did you get the idea that it is? You have to know what you are doing, of course, that is true of any living thing you take responsiblity for.



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RE: 400 ppm

mylab....If I had known how labor intensive koi ponds are, I would have stuck with goldfish. We inherited a rectangular 1920's pond when we bought this house 30 years ago. It was even covered because the then owners had little kids. We should have left well enough alone ,but NOOOOO. We dug it out and filled it up and got some goldfish. Knew nothing about ponds. Lost some in a bad winter because we didn't have a ice melter but did have a goldfish live to 15. But we had to get koi and the three we had grew to tremendous size..close to two feet long. So we dug up part of the perennial garden, put in a waterfall and nature took it's course. First thing out on the very first day, my prize white koi was killed by a heron. Found his bloody body. Okay, lesson learned. The pond has been netted since that day. Then a rock fell in and punctured the lining and the water started draining out in November. We had to capture all of them with a net , put them in a kiddie swimming pool in our basement, rig lights like they'd have outside and put a pump in the pool. Two immediately jumped out so we had to net that. When the algae level rises and ammonia levesl rise, this can kill the fish. When the power goes off for even a short time, they will die from lack of oxygen. My SIL saved most of them last year after the five died by renting me a generator. Before that they must have spawned because we saw little bug like creatures which turned out be another six beautiful babies from the ones who died. They are a lot like dogs. When they hear my voice they swim furiously to what ever side I'm at. But I'm not sure they are worth the effort and the anxiety. If the person in the 1920's had not built the small pond, I doubt I would have gotten into the pond business. I know my husband wouldn't have. He has to change the filter every day in this extreme heat. I have one koi that weighs about nine pounds!!


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 6:22

....the heat is still on in the city by the lake, but we got rain finally.


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RE: 400 ppm

We got a teaser of rain, as is often the case in this season. Still annoying, though. All the good rain goes to the mainland.


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RE: 400 ppm

Let's straighten this out: Lily says she didn't call HF stupid--

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 17:51

"How stupid anyone who doesn't see this happening before our very eyes. The same people who believe the earth is 4000 years old."
Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Sun, Jul 1, 12 at 2:41

"I called no one personally stupid... So house, who homeschools, thinks the world is 4000 years old. Pity her ill educated kids."

Looks like Lily called HF stupid. And she did it first.

______________

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 11:53

"For the climate change deniers, I hope YOU are one of the millions without power today in the triple digit heat."

That's just plain nasty. And then to further de-humanize those who don't agree with Lily, she worries about her valuable koi (aren't they oversized goldfish?).

_____________


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RE: 400 ppm

Elvis, I think you have gathered the facts and exposed the intentions. Can we just let it go and get along? We all have our personality quirks and comfort zones to defend.


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RE: 400 ppm

snip - .... News that can be boiled down to a sentence or two:

You ever wonder what global warming is going to look like? In its early stages, exactly like this.

Global warming is underway. Are we waiting for someone to hold up a sign that says "Here's climate change"? Because, this week, we got everything but that:

- In the Gulf, tropical storm Debby dropped what one meteorologist described as "unthinkable amounts" of rain on Florida. Debby marked the first time in history that we'd reached the fourth-named storm of the year in June; normally it takes till August to reach that mark.

- In the west, of course, firestorms raged: the biggest fire in New Mexico history, and the most destructive in Colorado's annals. (That would be the Colorado Springs blaze: the old record had been set the week before, in Fort Collins.) One resident described escaping across suburban soccer fields in his car, with "hell in the rearview mirror".

- The record-setting temperatures (it had never been warmer in Colorado) that fueled those blazes drifted east across the continent as the week wore on: across the Plains, there were places where the mercury reached levels it hadn't touched even in the Dust Bowl years, America's previous all-time highs.

- That heatwave was coming at just the wrong time, as farmers were watching their corn crops get ready to pollinate, a task that gets much harder at temperatures outside the norms with which those crops evolved. "You only get one chance to pollinate over 1 quadrillion kernels," said Bill Lapp, president of Advanced Economic Solutions, a Omaha-based commodity consulting firm:

"There's always some level of angst at this time of year, but it's significantly greater now and with good reason. We've had extended periods of drought."

In the markets, all this news was taking its toll: prices for corn and wheat were spiking upwards, rising almost a third on global markets as forecasters suggested grain stockpiles could shrink by as much as 50% as the summer wears on. But in the political world, there wasn't much reaction at all.

The Obama administration said it would grant Shell leases to drill for more oil in the Arctic, and they auctioned off a vast new tract of federal coal land at giveaway prices - even though it's the carbon in that coal and oil that drives the droughts and fires. Even that didn't satisfy the GOP, as Mitt Romney demanded yet more pipelines and wells.

Amid it all, the CEO of the biggest oil company in the world, Exxon, gave what may go down in the annals as the most poorly timed - not to mention, arrogant - speech in the firm's history: Rex Tillerson, speaking to the Council on Foreign Relations, admitted what his company spent many years denying, that humans were heating the planet. But then he added:

"We have spent our entire existence adapting, OK? So we will adapt to this. Changes to weather patterns that move crop production areas around - we'll adapt to that. It's an engineering problem, and it has engineering solutions. And so I don't - the fear factor that people want to throw out there and say, 'We just have to stop this,' I do not accept."

Against the backdrop of the burning Rockies, it's pretty clear this is not an engineering problem. Engineers, in fact, have performed admirably. One day last month, Germany generated more than half its electricity from solar panels. We've got the technical chops to solve our troubles.

No, this is a greed problem. In the last five years, Exxon has made more money than any company in history. For the moment, Exxon and other's desire to keep minting money - and our politicians' desire for a share of that cash - has conspired to keep our government, and most others, from doing anything to head off the crisis.

And unlike the healthcare predicament, this crisis comes with a time limit. If we play politics for a generation, then weeks like the one we've just come through will be normal, and all we'll be doing as a nation is responding to emergencies. As one scientist put it at week's end, the current heatwave is "bad by our current definition of bad, but our definition of bad changes." snip / end quote

cue the delegates at the 2008 Republican convention chanting "Drill baby Drill. Drill baby Drill

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 11:23

.....and our politicians' desire for a share of that cash - has conspired to keep our government, and most others, from doing anything to head off the crisis.

And to this I will say Amen! Meanwhile back at the ranch the citizens of this fair country argue back and forth petty partisan politics, while and Dems and Repubs rake it in and enjoy fat pensions and healthcare on the citizens dime.

You just can't make this stuff up.


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RE: 400 ppm

The solar aera for you guys will start the minute they figure out how to monopolize the sun, and not one second sooner.

Unless you do it yourself. Occupy the sun!


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RE: 400 ppm

David..you stated it all perfectly. I was sent on FB today a red map of America saying from May 2011-Arpil 2012 every single state in the country broke every heat record in their history. Every state. This of course doesn't even take into account this vicious heatwave. Summer, anymore, is a time to dread as people used to dread bad winters.

It's a wake up call, but it's too late to change the course as long as some don't think it's occurring.

I said before Al Gore will be looked on by history as a man before his time. Weather has the ability to destroy one's quality of life.


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RE: 400 ppm

"We've got the technical chops to solve our troubles."

There is that dangerous ever-present fallacy. It implies the magic techno-fix allowing the continuation of the growth paradigm and bringing ever more people into the standards of living established by the hydro-carbon age.

Illogical, and impossible.


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RE: 400 ppm

"We've got the technical chops to solve our troubles."

We have the technical chops to mitigate - not solve - some - not all - of our troubles.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 14:21

Technical chops?

Maybe he's angling for the government contract to place a giant umbrella in-between the earth and sun.


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RE: 400 ppm

If not for avarice, we could mitigate a whole lot more of our clean energy problems... through sun, wind, and water power. I fear Maddie is right... until Exxon or some other giant corporation figures out how to patent the sun and the wind and the force of rushing water, we're stuck in a carbon nightmare of changing climate and weather patterns that will affect our food sources, peoples' lives, and on and on. But those with dollar signs in place of eyes don't care a whit.

Let the planet burn while we drill the hell out of it...


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RE: 400 ppm

Why wait on Exxon or some giant corporation?

It's a free country, anyone with the brains and the determination can come up with an answer.

Until a person refuses to use all petroleum products and STOPS using gasoline in their vehicles, they are part of the "drill the hell out the planet" gang.

Some is just supplying your need.


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typo

They are not some is.


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RE: 400 ppm

As the US of A, science-challenged crowd debates reality, and dig their collective heads deeper into the hot sand, much more of the planet is rapidly modernizing and pumping ever greater amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Most of us like to use our AC, especially at night in a heat wave, so we can understand why India and China would likewise. Americans can debate the 'theory' of climate change as the Russians move to take advantage of the eventual, seasonal, ice- free arctic ocean. Funny how the laws of physics don't give a damn if one is Buddhist, Hindu, Christian or atheistic, democrat or republican, liberal, or conservative.


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RE: 400 ppm

Nearly every person on the planet makes use of fossil fuel in some way. And yep, for sure, all of us in the developed countries, but, Demi, stopping all use of fossil fuel is not the correct way to look at the issue. Conservation is the key dynamic. Getting used to using half of current usage would be huge, for example. Why or how would any individual stop altogether? That's a useless idea.


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RE: 400 ppm

As the climate changes, and it is (NJ and other Northeast states most of all according to the experts), solar is becoming a more reliable option in a sunnier, year-round, climate.


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RE: 400 ppm

Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 9:13

Elvis, I think you have gathered the facts and exposed the intentions. Can we just let it go and get along? We all have our personality quirks and comfort zones to defend.

_______________

Okey dokey, Marshall ;-)


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RE: 400 ppm

Thank-y, elvis


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RE: 400 ppm

My understanding is that climate change is projected to impact the southwest most out of the US region, followed by the midwest and the southeast, with the northeast least effected.


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RE: 400 ppm

Pnbrown, perhaps the South West most affected in terms of water-stressing an already parched area of the nation, but I just saw a reference to the states with the greatest impact from present day warming in terms of temperature rise, and it was the Northeast (with Jersey at number 4), with the Southeast seeing the least rise--obviously, not reflecting the recent current S.E. heatwave. (Will try to track down the reference and forward it.--believe it was reprted on the Weather Channel). But also saw a recent article on sea level rise and it's greatest impact on the N.E., not to mention
greater damage from coastal storms (hurricanes and otherwise). No, I don't think it's the end of the world, but the rapidity of dramatic change will
be frightening and climate change seems to throw in a bunch of unexpected wild cards--freakish October snowstorms, and snows measured in feet, and windstorms on steroids. Happy 4th!


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RE: 400 ppm

The southwest may have been the lead impact area in the continental US, where we coined the term "exceptional drought" in 2002 - when the sage brush and scrub oak were dying along with the massive beetle kill of the pinion forest, the onslaught of Sudden Aspen Decline, and all those massive fires.

Since, different species of bark beetles have now gone on and attacked the pines and spruce with additional millions of acres now full of standing dead timber, stretching all the way into northern British Columbia, 'exceptional droughts' are now common all over, etc.

Back to the same drought conditions 10 years later, and if we don't get rain this season, and another dismal snow pack, next year will be horrible.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 10:50

Woah Baby! Big storm moving in, high winds and bending the trees out here ... catch ya later peeps :)


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RE: 400 ppm

I slide under a truck when we got the worst snowfall and ice storm ever and my life was spared for what I do not know...I never thought I would say this but I truly hope we get above normal snowfall this winter. We did not get any last winter and this dry no rain Spring and Summer is taking a toll on gardens.

I have to say anybody that has not recognized the temp and weather pattern changes since we were young are not telling themselves the truth or they have problem with long term memory.


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RE: 400 ppm

Another horrid day in a string of them. I can't compare the weather/climate change in other parts of the country but having lived in this exact area for all my life(even went to college 45 minutes away), I can truly say this is unprecedented. Yes, we had hot summer days but when it hit 100 every four or five years for a day, it was headline news. Now it's a common occurrence. Five times last year, and this year the hot weather started in March. Who knows what the hottest months, mid July and August, will bring. 100 degrees here on the 4th.

We had one snow storm with seven inches in October, not one flake after that resulting in very dry start to the year.


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RE: 400 ppm

But, see, in the UK they're having one of the wettest junes ever, so combined with the drought here, it all evens out.

And, as usual, 99 climate scientists are long past trying to 'prove' anthropomorphic climate change and are all studying the effects and how to begin to mitigate whats coming down the pike, what with rapidly rising sea levels (5 inches in 20 years, anyone?) the impact of nation-wide droughts on food production, etc etc, ...... the press focuses on the one or two odd ball religious fanatics who say 'eh its all just natural cycles'.

And of course the congressional Republicans run with the nutter, and want to cut all funding for the EPA, do away with efforts to contain pollution ("job killing regulations" ) and stop funding any studies of the effects of climate change. eg North Carolina outlawing it.


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RE: 400 ppm

Good heavens Lily! All I do is sit around and admire their koi ponds but they have never gone into detail about the upkeep except for when it's winter and how they have to be sure the heaters keep working.

I would have been tempted but my place is far too small to hold a pond of any sort of any size, much less a koi pond.

A friend of mine has even named her koi and swears she can tell who is who. She had a little footpath bridge kind of thing built over her pond (husband/sons in construction did it all for her) and we can stand on it and see them, it really is gorgeous. She did talk about the digging and installation of the pond as being a big deal but never talked about the koi as big deal except for the panic when it was discovered her heater was failing one winter.


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RE: 400 ppm

My lab..I have named some of mine..very original names like Blackie, Whitey, Pinky, little Pinky, Creamsicle and Goldie. Beyond that I have given up since a large portion of mine are black and orange, and I can' tell them apart.

Unfortunately Pinky (my original one) and little Pinky were the first to die last year in the power outage so I'm lucky to have a Baby Pinky again born before the kill.

I have way too many inches of koi to gallons of water but what to do?. We have a footbridge too. My husband did the major work and we ran into limestone which makes the pond floor uneven.

Ask your friend how they maintain theirs. Not easy, I'll bet, but they are beautiful and zen like to sit and watch them.


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RE: 400 ppm

In Asia, the upper echelons of raising Koi is on the same level as breeding show dogs here, and some fish can go for hundreds of thousands of dollars.


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RE: 400 ppm

David ,my grandson read about them and was going to "steal" some of mine to sell on eBay..lol. I had to tell him mine aren't worth more than a couple hundred of dollars each, and in Asia they are bred thru the centuries, and passed down generation to generation. . Apparently koi can live 100 years or more???? Grandson has his own koi pond so he can sell his own.


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RE: 400 ppm

mylab..here are a few pictures I just took at the pond. Sorry for the poor quality. Sun glare. You can see how the babies who were indivisible a few months ago have grown.


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RE: 400 ppm

Another shot...


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 17:55

"the heat is on"

"More than 2,000 temperature records have been matched or broken in the past week as a brutal heat wave baked much of the United States, and June saw more than 3,200 records topped, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said Monday.

Accuweather meteorologist Alex Sosnowski said the number of records broken was very unusual. He said that while some aspects of the heat wave are unknown, much of it is because of a lack of snow cover during the late winter on America's plains.

Instead of the sun's heat melting snow, it instead heated the ground, which in turn warmed the air. The increase in temperature even made crops grow ahead of schedule until now; Sosnowski said the lack of rainfall has stunted crops' growth.

About 2.1 million homes and businesses remained without power on Monday after violent storms and soaring temperatures killed at least 18 people since Friday, many of them when trees fell on their cars or houses."

Here is a link that might be useful: Source of Course


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RE: 400 ppm

Oh Lily, so beautiful - it's like looking down at my friend's koi pond. Gorgeous!

I've read everything you have written about your whole place, it sounds so beautiful and peaceful - exactly the kind of place I would imagine as a home you would create for yourself and your family.


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 4, 12 at 6:36

Two fast moving storms moved through yesterday, one in the morn and one in the eve, same predicted for today ... the heat is still in the 90's ... whine whine whine :)


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RE: 400 ppm

A teasing of rain here; but I'll take it gratefully.

We are witnessing the real beginning of the shift in crop productivity by regions. The process will be slow and extremely costly.


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RE: 400 ppm

Just heard from a friend living in SW England, who wrote that the UK had the wettest June ever recorded. Also that Nottingham received a grand total of 72 hours of sunshine in the month of June. The same weather patterns that are causing our widespread US heatwave are causing their extreme rainfall.

Beautiful koi, lily.


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RE: 400 ppm

We have never had to irrigate this early in the season. It's unnatural. I worry about the ground water levels with such a dry winter and early spring. We've gotten barely any rain... a little here and there, but not nearly enough.

I've been using the soaker hoses that seep slowly at the root zone, and only at night, trying to conserve without losing any stock plants.

I wish we'd get some decent rain...


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RE: 400 ppm

3" of rain here on Monday night, and a few power outages. We're in the country, so have a generator on hand just in case--what a great investment that was!

Stellar summer in the Northwoods; warm (86 F right now) and sunny with cool nights, plenty of rain but not too much, mosquitoes not intense. Summers here almost make up for the really really cold winters ;-)


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RE: 400 ppm

July 4th is downright miserable here. This is the worse summer in history here with NO relief in sight...only going to get hotter till it hits 100 again. We have been in the upper 90s all week with not a drop of rain. So plans for the 4th, stay inside in the AC..otherwise would go to the park with the dogs and have a picnic. The humidity is dreadful, and life outside doesn't exist. It would be torture to have be outside for more than ten minutes, but I'll have to water the flowers. . And again I'll have to walk the dogs at 11PM, the only half bearable time. My friend who lives in WA said for her party they had to stay indoors because it rained ,got windy, and was so cold they had the fireplace burning.


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RE: 400 ppm

Elvis, z4 wisconsin must be a large and variable area because on the veg forum a guy from there says he has severe drought and extreme heat for some time. I guess he isn't getting his compensation for the cold winter?


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 4, 12 at 16:10

Spring here in central Va was a little dry but almost text book perfect, perhaps a little too good on the warm side with no threat of any late frosts. But like many of you we've more recently have had very violent storms and extreme heat. A few days ago the weatherman was hinting at cooler temps coming but now it looks like at least 3 more days of 100F ahead before it "cools" down into the 90's. I think they're still trying to figure it out, this Hot High is stubborn and the jet stream is sending a stream of storms over many states just about daily. Va is usually buffered from midwest storms thanks to the blocking mtns, but not lately.

Many people are still sadly without power and we can hear generators in the far distance. Not sure how we got lucky as we're usually the first to lose power, large branches were broken in the yard and a Richmond landmark the "Surrender Tree" where the city was handed over to the Union Army took place was felled during the last bout of storms. Gardens will cook under these temps no matter how much watering, tomatoes fail to pollinate among other garden problems. Having electrical power during this time is much more than just a creature comfort.
I'm always out side at this time but not today, I have used up all my heat credits.


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RE: 400 ppm

When you live in the boonies, a generator is a must. We have several, one hooked right into the house that runs on propane. When we do have power outages, you can hear them kick on in several directions. People out here know how to survive. :-)


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RE: 400 ppm

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 4, 12 at 17:50

......radar showing another storm coming across the lake, doesn't provide any relief from the heat though.


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RE: 400 ppm

Any rain we've gotten lately has served to raise the humidity... and that's about it.


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RE: 400 ppm

PN, that guy on the veg forum is definitely not around here. I wonder too if he is Z4, or if he forgot to change his zone? We used to be Z3.


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