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Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Posted by heri_cles 1 (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 19:15

In some urban /suburban/exurban areas that I am familiar with throughout the country, I still see a lot of segregated neighborhoods.

Most will disagree on what the cause is of this and why integration has not seemed to have worked in and around our major cities and suburban areas.

Setting the reasons for segregation aside, (if you can), what can be done to have a more balanced integrated society that is more reflective of the percentage of minorities in this country?

How can the segregation that still exists so prominently in many urban areas NOT perpetuate inequality in economic opportunity and educational opportunity? Does the fact that some people say that Welfare does not work mean we can just ignore these problems?

Historically, I recall how segregation existed in the 1960's in wher I grew up. High-rise housing projects were constructed and isolated from white neighborhoods with a large expanse of divided highway, fencing and train tracks.
The 1964 Civil rights act section on busing was met with anger and sometimes violence in white neighborhoods seeking to keep their public schools free of black students. yes, this was in 1969 not 1869.

Recently a black family in a suburban area near where I live was forced out by a Landlord after he received continuing calls and pressure from white neighbors. They were out flying Confederate flags on their pick-ups and posting them in their windows.

Yes, we dare not use the "R" word to accuse anyone of racism but what about segregation? Why is it still a problem and what can be done about it,,,or do you even care?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

The sample you cite is disgusting, but you cannot change people minds until you change their hearts.

At the same time minorities tend to segregate themselves quite a bit.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

At the same time minorities tend to segregate themselves quite a bit.

Not just minorities.

In this city, we have areas Little Italy, Little Portugal, Chinatown, an area predominantly Scot/Irish, toward the east end is a heavily Serbian area, a couple of enclaves in the city known to be mostly Muslim of specific backgrounds (like a Palestinian area near us)...

I don't think it has to do with people segregating themselves. Sometimes certain communities tend to settle near each other, perhaps for comfort or familiarity.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Posted by hamiltongardener CAN 6a (My Page) on Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 22:07

"I don't think it has to do with people segregating themselves. Sometimes certain communities tend to settle near each other, perhaps for comfort or familiarity."

Agreed.

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Posted by heri_cles 1 (My Page) on Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 19:15

"In some urban /suburban/exurban areas that I am familiar with throughout the country, I still see a lot of segregated neighborhoods."

heri, I'm wondering what you mean by "segregated" neighborhoods. Do you mean that all the people inhabiting those particular neighborhoods are alike in some way?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Heri, You shared that you live near an oil pipeline. I Know that general area and know that it's very white. Why are you living there and not in an area like the one in which you Grew up?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I have one suggestion Education.

I worked for a training organization that trained disadvantage youth from the East Coast. Every holiday buses were leased and we returned them to their homes for the Holiday.

I chaperoned on the buses. We dropped off the African Americans in the inner City, the others we dropped off in rural areas and trailer parks.

One student was still sitting on the bus I asked him did he miss his stop. He looked at me and gave us his address. His destination was suburban. Out of a bus load of 90 we had one disadvantage youth that lived in a Middle class neighborhood.

Middle Class neighborhoods are mixed races. Middle class are usually educated, working. Which does not lean towards seeing color as "not belonging".

The higher the income, education there is color blind neighborhoods.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 23:05

"The higher the income, education there is color blind neighborhoods."

What does this mean?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

elvis if you have money no one cares you skin color is.
elvis silly fellow to bad you don't understand such basic concepts.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Hey, if you have enough money, nobody minds much if you're a complete jerk, either. I don't buy the money angle.

I'm trying to figure out what Marq is saying--maybe it's a sort of verbal shorthand?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I don't think it has to do with people segregating themselves.

Self segregation? What does that mean? People want to live in predominantly segregated areas? Isn't that part of the problem? Does that explain why we still have black and Hispanic inner city areas and predominantly white suburban areas so many decades after Civil Rights? Does the desire to live in segregated areas justify segregation?

heri, I'm wondering what you mean by "segregated" neighborhoods. Do you mean that all the people inhabiting those particular neighborhoods are alike in some way?

How are people in inner city segregated areas like Chicago and Detroit alike? I am sorry I cannot engage people on frivolous, inane and non-responsive comments and questions.

Marquest said:
I have one suggestion Education.

I agree. Education is one of the best long term solutions.
The attempt to bus students into other areas in the late 1960's was intended to foster a more peaceful, understanding and integrated society as well as equalize the educational opportunities. However, busing never got off the ground in Chicago where segregated neighborhoods resisted it with a vengeance.
White flight out of the many Cities like Chicago followed. Over the last few decades nice homes were constructed and newer schools to accomodate the growing, mostly white suburban population, while inner City neighborhoods were inhabited by minorities, mainly black and Latino.

The reality is that many of our large inner City neighborhoods have crumbling infrastructure. old homes, and old deteriorating schools that are too large for dwindling student populations, too costly to operate and maintain, and underfunded.
The easy solution has been charter schools, although some people, like myself, have misgivings about privatization of our schools.
in any case, the short answer is that IO agree that education is one avenue to allow people to evetually migrate from segregated low income inner city neighborhoods, but of course, that needs more spending and thus more taxes.

jmc01 said
Heri, You shared that you live near an oil pipeline. I Know that general area and know that it's very white. Why are you living there and not in an area like the one in which you Grew up?

Nice to know you have zoned in on me and my neighborhood here on the Alberta tar sands pipeline. Wow, another non-responsive provocative question that does not deserve a response.

Some of you folks seem to be really angry lately. What happened? The Supreme Court finding Obamacare was Constitutional despite 3:1 Intrade odds against that??
I know it was a shocker, but don't blame me. I didn't even take a victory lap and neither did most others here.
I can just imagine how miserable some of you will be if Obama wins reelection.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I live in middle class neighborhood that is racially mixed. Race doesn't seem to be a factor when people decide to move into this neighborhood.

Heri, my senior year in high school was the first year of busing. Based on my experience, it failed miserably. Students from the first grade and up were forced to spend over an hour on the bus each way to school. The bused in students didn't want to be there. It was a horrible year. A couple of teachers were physically attacked by the bused in students. A baby was born in the bathroom. Two bused in students left the school at lunch, robbed a bank and made it back for their next class. (They later killed someone). I can remember walking down the hall between classes and seeing switch blades pulled out of socks as I walked by. Great way to learn about other races. I think the administrators were overwhelmed by what was happening in the school and simply didn't have the manpower or experience to deal with it. Judge that ordered busing has since admitted that it was a failure.

Has anyone else noticed that some professions are predominately filled with people from one race? Think about your veterinarian. How many black vets do you see? We don't see very many around here. New grads are most likely to be Caucasian women.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

That's not a non-responsive answe at all. You want to Point to others to analyze an issue in a society - start with analyzing your part in contributing to the issue. Using info you have shared about yourself, careto offer Why you don't live in an integrated area?

I live in a racially mixed city and on a racially, religiously, and culturally mixed block. One piece to the success of the city is that city government formally adopted an attitude of acceptance years ago. That attitude doesn't seem to attract folks who favor/support segregation.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Culture and degree of access to a society's wealth are inextricably interwoven. Are poor whites and blacks (as an example) impoverished and isolated because of lack of access to wealth or because of their culture?

In particular cases the answer can be one, or the other, or more often both.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I can't speak for the States, although I suspect it's similar, but where I live I would not use the word segregated to describe the make up of neighborhoods. I think it is much more to do with socioeconomic and cultural issues.

As HG says we have large neighbourhoods that are predominantly Italian, Polish, Chinese, Pakistani etc. I think that people group together that way because it is culturally more comfortable and familiar. It is a choice they make... not one that is made for them. That's segregation.

Another thing that defines neighbourhoods is income. People with certain income levels tend to live in the same neighbourhoods, which is what Marq was saying. In this case I don't believe colour plays a part at all. You live where you live because you can afford to live there, be it the inner city, cosmopolitan downtown neighbourhoods or somewhere out in the burbs.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 7:54

I live in middle class neighborhood that is racially mixed. Race doesn't seem to be a factor when people decide to move into this neighborhood.

Ditto ... because my community (inner ring suburb) took a proactive approach to racial tolerance back in the early 70's after a particularly ugly incident (a black family's home was fire bombed).

These days the millennials are reversing what their parents did and moving back into the urban area here. Downtown residential growth has grown as well as the surrounding Cleveland neighborhoods (Tremont, Ohio City, Asiatown).


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Yeah, Chase pretty much nailed it. You live where you can afford to live. If you're a parent, you're probably going to choose to live where you can send your kids to the most decent school possible. You'll also try to live in low-crime neighborhoods.

Chances are that you don't know who your future neighbors are, or what color and culture they are.

You buy a house, not a neighborhood (although you get the neighborhood in varying degrees when you buy the house). But most people buy the location and amenities and size of the home that they want and can afford.

For folks who have a choice, why would you move into an area that doesn't suit you just to prove how wonderfully egalitarian you are? You have to live there, so why be miserable or live in an area you can't relate to?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Sidestepping institutional racism, which is alive and well in practices like realty redlining, I agree with the cultural familiarity issue. I think it's inextricably tied up with immigration patterns. Food is a major part of this -- you want to buy ingredients you need to cook your familiar cuisine. Things like hairdressers (try finding a decent relaxer at a CVS in Westchester), fashion (where do you buy a sari if the suburban mall is your only clothing outlet?), and housewares (ditto if you need a samovar or a sushi mat) are other items that spring to mind. Clearly this applies to first and second generations in the main, but then the housing patterns are set, aren't they?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I can only echoe what others wrote about the importance of education to level all playing fields.

I agree with Marq in that it is income mostly that determines the neighborhood makeup, not color. In VA I lived in a very Middle Class neighborhood with various races and faiths represented. We were on a cul de sac and knew our neighbors well and there was a great deal of bonding, despite cultural differences.

Now, I live in a somewhat gentrified part of the downtown area of Charleston, SC. It is very racially and culturally mixed. I note younger families are returning, moving from the suburbs, to buy the older city houses, restoring their historical architecture, choosing to enjoy walking and/or biking around the inner city, with its many waterfront areas and parks.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Education levels and income/career have a lot to do with where people choose to live. You live where you can afford to live. It would be very difficult for a family of any color or ethnicity, with low income and low education, to rise out of the more rundown, but affordable neighborhoods and purchase a home on property in the more expensive suburban neighborhoods or ritzier city high rises or town homes. Therefore, I think segregation almost happens on its own, generationally speaking.

I think it depends a lot on the schools within the district, how much the representatives of such districts care, and how much money comes in for renewal projects, projects that help keep neighborhoods viable, and allow small businesses to stay, etc...

I think there are more than a few variables... though, when you think about it, do you want to be the only person in your neighborhood that speaks a different language, for example? No... so people tend to congregate where they feel comfortable, and where they can afford to live.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

People often prefer to live around people who are like them. It's just a basic fact. Voluntary segregation, at some level, will always exist.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I'm kind of happy that there is a level of self-segregation that happens within communities because it helps to preserve a self identity within multiculturalism...

And it makes it easy to know where the great parties will be happening after Euro Cup and World Cup soccer games. The best area of this city after a Euro Cup win is undoubtedly the Portugese areas. They head right out into the street, the doors to the bars and cafes are wide open and the police start to route the traffic around the area just to accommodate an almost imprompu street party. We head straight down there just to soak in the atmosphere.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Living where one can afford the rents/house prices also promotes intergration. When the refugees from Central American civil wars began arriving in Los Angeles, the most affordable areas were the traditionally African American neighborhoods and decaying white areas in and near downtown. (The Central Americans were arriving as the more prosperous blacks were moving to the suburbs and exurbs.) Now the Pico Union area is predominantly Central American, and South Central now more than 50% Hispanic. Korea Town is a mix of Latino and Korean. The white, working-class neighborhoods of the San Gabriel Valley now have sizable Asian populations from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and China.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Food is a major part of this -- you want to buy ingredients you need to cook your familiar cuisine.

Of course. Imagine trying to find a decent pupuseria in Torrance.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Unfortunately, there's an underlying level of prejudice that goes with it all, too... I can recall my older relatives complaining when the more affluent of different races began buying homes in certain neighborhoods in Chicago. They'd say things like, "well, it's time to move... there goes the neighborhood."... and other such bigoted sentiments. Of course, that was over 45 years ago, when the civil rights movement was just settling down, I believe. I was still very, very little... but I remember the talk.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 30, 12 at 16:07

Within a given geographic area, I have always bought a house with the highest-rated schools in mind. Sadly, in my experience, that has correlated with a certain ethnic mix, with whites, Asians and Jews being over-represented, and Latinos and African Americans under-represented. I wish that were not the case. I am happy to note that a larger proportion of my younger son's classmates now appear to be Indian or Muslim than in the past, so diversity is gradually increasing.

But I do look forward to the day when my family will no longer need the public school and can move to a more diverse urban neighborhood...


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

This has been a very interesting topic and resulting thread to read, thanks.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I think the school system was one of the reasons my husband bought the original piece of property... the area had great public schools. It was also rural... another important factor to him regarding raising children... and at the time, the cost of the property was affordable, and he was still working a great job pre-accident.

In the rural farming communities of the Midwest, a lot of inhabitants tend to be white, though the small towns surrounding are very mixed with Mexican/Latino and Black inhabitants also wanting to take advantage of good schools and what were at the time, affordable homes.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

There is no way you can slice it or dice it......It all comes back to Education.

Education =
-Knowledge which makes people not fear what they do not know. We fear aliens (outer space ones) because we have no knowledge of what/who they are. Racism is ignorance.
Income =
-You do not earn a large income or you are very unlikely to secure the type of employment to make a higher income with out Education.

My cities attempted to shrink crime by breaking up low income projects. They purchased homes that were for sale in Suburban neighborhoods many that were not inter-racial, cultural suburban neighborhoods. They were now Homeowners not renters. So the theory was once renters owned attitudes would change.

That did not go over very well. When they saw families move in and begin the learned behavior of housing ;projects. It had little to do with them being Polish, Italian, White, African American, Chinese. It had to do with they came with the "no knowledge, knowledge"

The new no knowledge homeowner thought....Someone will come and cut the grass, Someone will pick up the bottle I throw on the ground after I finish drinking the pepsi. Someone will come and do necessary repairs of my property.

It would be the same thing as dropping any human in the middle of a pack of wolves and expect us as humans to start running with the wolves in the morning and knowing how to hunt and protect ourselves in the wild without our gun. We would not know to use our nose, teeth, and pack rules.

That is all humans are a pack of Educated wolves on 2 legs. We are packish/clannish and do not want the others in our habitat.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

But marquest, are you arguing that people are incapable of learning new habits? That is after all what separates us from the wolves. :-)


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

That is after all what separates us from the wolves. :-)

But maybe not from the coyotes. :0)


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Some people are indeed incapable of learning new habits because they are ignorant.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

"That did not go over very well. When they saw families move in and begin the learned behavior of housing ;projects. It had little to do with them being Polish, Italian, White, African American, Chinese. It had to do with they came with the "no knowledge, knowledge"

The new no knowledge homeowner thought....Someone will come and cut the grass, Someone will pick up the bottle I throw on the ground after I finish drinking the pepsi. Someone will come and do necessary repairs of my property."

So a crucial part of the education would be "personal responsibility", right? Basically, you take of yourself and stop relying on others.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

But marquest, are you arguing that people are incapable of learning new habits? That is after all what separates us from the wolves. :-)

Not at all that is where education comes into the equation. I said they thought just by providing them the opportunity of ownership vs renting they missed the Education of owning the home and what comes with ownership. Thus throwing a human in with a pack of wolves comparison was what I was trying to show.

So a crucial part of the education would be "personal responsibility", right? Basically, you take of yourself and stop relying on others.

That is where you and I differ. I think Education is the answer vs being a uneducated Pack of Wolves. The uneducated pack of wolves say "You are on your own" "Personal Responsibility" .


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Behaviors form when we're quite young, mainly from example... and most people, when they reach adulthood, do not change those ingrained habits. If someone picks up after you when you're a kid, and never teaches you the responsibility of picking up after yourself, you'll never learn to do it yourself.

Some people like well organized homes with nice yards, and others don't care so much. Some people like pristine, bare homes... while others prefer eclectic, and a little clutter never bothers them.

I'm somewhere in the middle... I don't mind a little clutter, and my tastes run very eclectic. I could never live in a home where I couldn't be comfortable, and had to take my shoes off, or a home without plants and pets. My dogs sleep in my bed with me, and sit on my furniture. They don't beg... that's not allowed... and they're kept clean, but they are welcome to sleep where ever they like.

The older I get, the less of a "Suzy Homemaker" I am. I just physically can't manage as much as I used to. But I still do the best I can, and we raised our children in a clean, more organized environment, with 3 meals a day, and taught them to be self sufficient.

You'd laugh at some of my methods of changing bad habits that were part of the family when I arrived, and were beginning to become ingrained, but they worked... and my kids, now all adults with their own homes, can take quite good care of themselves and their families.

What is it they say about pigs? You can put lipstick on them, but they're still pigs. Or polishing poop... underneath the shiny exterior, it's still poop. In other words, you can't take the city or the country out of a person, and once ingrained, it's very difficult to instill different habits and ways of living.

I don't think it's so much race or ethnic groups... it's cultural habits and childhood behaviors that stick with people.

Education does seem to be a recurring theme... we all want good schools for our kids. And we have to somehow combine that with the affordability of the neighborhood or area we choose. It's a lot tougher with a poor economy... and an infrastructure that's aging and crumbling.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

This was the question proferred in the OP:

"How can the segregation that still exists so prominently in many urban areas NOT perpetuate inequality in economic opportunity and educational opportunity? Does the fact that some people say that Welfare does not work mean we can just ignore these problems? "

This thread was intend as a way to discuss the problems inherent in racially and ethnically segregated inner cities in the United States. The notion of "self-segregation" and how some even like that idea simply divert any useful discussion on the topic.

What strikes me is how some will resort to any tactic whether it be diversion or pseudo-intellectual justification and the use of half-truths to deny that a problem even exists let alone how it might be addressed.

And hey, why do I live where jmco1 thinks I, live, anyway?
Why do I supposedly "Point" to others before supposedly levying racial accusations against others?
Huh....huh?

To deny that racial segregation in our inner cities as well as in suburban areas in the United States exists is, I suppose, one way of responding here. I just cannot take that, or the personal stuff thrown at me seriously.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

This thread was intend as a way to discuss the problems inherent in racially and ethnically segregated inner cities in the United States. The notion of "self-segregation" and how some even like that idea simply divert any useful discussion on the topic.

But Heri you do understand that is useful to understand why segregation exist. The Consensus of some is Personal Responsibility, "it happened because it is what they did wrong." It is all their fault. They did it to themselves "Self-segregation"

To analyze the answer you have to take into consideration of who is giving the answer and their outlook and weight that answer on those merits. That is their answer to the problem. "SELF"

As you saw blame you for not living in an area. Don't involve "ME, MYSELF, and I"

You got your answer to add to what it will take to solve the problem. or Not solve the problem.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on Sun, Jul 1, 12 at 9:52

"That is all humans are a pack of Educated wolves on 2 legs. We are packish/clannish and do not want the others in our habitat."

...and the pack works as a team to bring down their quarry of the moment. I'm not going to look for a citation to back up either Marquest's or my statement; we all know that's how the wolves work--a prime example is right here on HT. Select a poster, join forces, and force that poster into a corner (if you can).

Provocative, marquest.

As to the OP:

Posted by heri_cles 1 (My Page) on Fri, Jun 29, 12 at 19:15

"Why is it still a problem and what can be done about it,,,or do you even care?"

I don't see a segregation problem in the USA. The very definition of segregation requires an enforced separation of groups. Since there are no longer laws to enforce segregation, it's a matter of personal choice. If a group decides to be self-segregating, it could be a neighborhood, or it could be a microcosm like HT, it's up to the interloper to interject his/herself into the neighborhood, or in the case of HT, the discusssion. If they choose to.

So the "bully" laws are a thing of the past. Now it's up to the individual--there are a plethora of movies/novels, both fiction and non, about this subject.

Would you have the government do something further about the fact that there is self segregation in the USA? If so, what?

Homestead bussing?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

My walk-street block used to be much more diverse before gentrification. Million+ for a two bedroom, one bath cottage on a postage-stamp sized lot in an area hailed as a "lifestyle" tends to promote segregation. Some of us are still hanging on because we've always appreciated the area.

Why they're coming, and what they're destroying:

Venice
Holy Ground
Stained with the blood of poets
City which lies
Beneath the breasts of birds
Guarded by cats
Behind every corner
The Muse, Angel of Surprise
Poems out of pavement cracks
~Philomene Long


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

The first step one has to take in addressing this problem is to understand and to recognize that it exists.

The second step is to not succumb to knee jerk reactions from ones own ego or predispositions and perhaps from other less than desirable defensive mechanisms that always seem to get thrown up when any issue involving race is approached.
There is a pattern of racial and ethnic housing segregation that not only exists, but is predominant in and around some our major cities. That has compartmentalized issues pertaining to affordable housing opportunities, crumbling schools and infrastructure, diminishing local real estate tax bases. These issues have only been getting worse since the Recession started. Now some have suggested that we can no longer afford public education for inner city children, that we have to eliminate public Unions, cut down on teachers, police and Firemen because we cannot afford them.
We also cannot afford to spend the tax money of successful, sexy, wealthy people for the problems of those who lack personal responsibility and eat McDonalds...the dredge of our society...and many of those kind of undesirables should be deported anyway..

Here is a link that might be useful: Does racial segregation still exist in the United States?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

My consideration in purchasing a home years ago was the school system. I wanted an old farmhouse and even though I saw a few nice ones, they weren't in my kids' school system and I would never have them change on my whim. So I waited till they were in college and ironically found one which IS in their school system. I bought purely for the house even though I gave thought to the neighborhood which has not changed much. It's a small predominately white town with few minorities. When I moved here there were none , and I mean none because the census broke it down.

I think many minorities do self segregate because they like living within their culture. When daughter and I were in Philadelphia a few weeks ago, we walked thru Chinatown. I was so amazed it went from the regular city streets to a whole neat culture in a flash. There were very cool shops and of course all wonderful Asian restaurants. We had just eaten but I would have loved to eat in one of them.

Sadly the part of PA I grew up was mostly white, no minorities in my HS( except two blacks and one Jewish friend) or my kids' HS, and grandson's town is mostly white as well. It is what it is. In his participation in soccer he goes to tournaments thru out the state and country so he has made friends of all races.

I think this generation is basically unprejudiced (except for the little kids who sing about gays not going to heaven). It's a good thing. When my parents built their home in 1950, in the covenant which I later read after they both died, it read that no Negroes can be in this area from 5PM to 7 AM. Of course this applied to help, because certainly none would be allowed to live there. Remember this was just 62 years ago and in the north.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I think that was an excellent post, Lily. :-)


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Some folks prefer you leave them alone!

Several of my neighbors at the new residence are from India and refuse to mix with other cultures. I walked over to introduce myself and they told me that they stick to their own people and culture. I can respect that.

Just because they are integrated doesn't mean they don't wish to be segregated.


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

While I would not deny Heri's point, I do think that many groups self-segregate themselves deliberately. I know this was true of the Muslim community that existed in the Virginia city I lived in for over 25 years. And there were several Native American tribes who deliberately chose to live together in certain Virginia communities, who prided themselves on keeping their traditions and culture intact.(Mattaponi and Chickahominy tribes, for example).


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

On a recent trip to visit my cousin in Pennsylvania I saw segregation between a black and a white neighborhood, with one street clearly bordering the divide.

I also saw segregated restaurants, both black and white -- one race could eat there, but "other" people could only buy food to go.

(By the way, I don't believe that there is a scientific basis for defining humans by "race," but I do acknowledge cultural differences.)


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

I also saw segregated restaurants, both black and white -- one race could eat there, but "other" people could only buy food to go.

I'm finding that difficult to imagine.

Did they have signs up stating that the "other" race was not allowed to eat in the restaurant? How can that possibly be enforce if say, a white couple sits down in a black restaurant. Do they tell them to leave, that they are the wrong colour to eat there?

And what happens if a Chinese couple sits down in a "Black only" or "White only" restaurant?


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RE: Segregation in America- 2012 and beyond

Visit the Hasidic restaurants in Detroit and let me know what your reception was like.


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