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one drop in the bucket

Posted by october17 5chgo (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 7, 13 at 21:14

Or is it 22 drops?

Sounds like he's just too busy to find a job. And too busy to be a good parent, no doubt.

Here is a link that might be useful: one babydaddy,seventeen babymamas, twenty-two babies


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: one drop in the bucket

I think he's disgusting. He isn't a parent, he's a sperm factory. D


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RE: one drop in the bucket

First of all, he should be sterilized. Seriously.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Let's talk about the costs to society for these 17 baby mamas and 22 babies (the babydaddy is only 33, there are lots more babies coming from him, you can bet on it)

prenatal care for baby (22 of them)
prenatal care for mama (22 of them)
prenatal food stamps (22 of them)
birth of the babies (22 of them)
cost of complications (22 of them)
free apartments (17 of them)
wic (22 of them)
cash "assistance" (22 of them)
food stamps (22 of them)
cell phones (17 of them)
12 years of schooling - including all supplies (22 of them)
free breakfast for 12 years (for 22 of them)
free lunch for 12 years (for 22 of them)
free after school programs (for 22 of them)
job training/tuition paid (for 39 of them)
poor performing schools (throw more money at them)
gang crime (cops, courts, jails, prisons, oh, and people die)

Just a teensy teensy tiny little bitty expense to the taxpayers.

Saw an interview with a teacher from one of the schools closing in "poor" parts of Chicago. There were two days off of school for the kids so teachers could meet with the parents of the kids. One parent showed up in the whole two days. It was a father who wanted his daughter to get out of the life of poverty. No doubt you saw the crowds at the protest rallies. Those were not parents, those were teachers and families of teachers and maybe one parent in two days of protest.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I'm always amazed at how many females are willing to have unprotected sex with uneducated, unemployed, unemployable males that have already fathered numerous kids with numerous females that they aren't supporting.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I read something interesting yesterday - that if you were born in 1950, you've already seen a tripling of the world's population.

Reading the articles about Syria and the rural families migrating to the cities after their devastating drought - they all have 10+ kids.

At the link is a wiki article on street children around the world - what happens when families or single moms are no longer able to support their kids and abandon them. Roughly 100 million of them, although its impossible to get an accurate count.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: one drop in the bucket

On the opposing side of the spectrum are all those women who desperately want children, but are unable to have them. Adoption is a wonderful thing.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

"I'm just hoping one day I'll get lucky and might scratch off the numbers or something. I play the hell out of the Tennessee lottery," he said.

This seems to be a common hope among many poor. The more desperate they become, the more they seem to play.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

When I was born (1937) there were an estimated 2.2 billion people, a figure that remained pretty close until about 1950 by which time the world recovered from Depression, World War, populations displacements.

David, that is a depressing wiki piece.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Not true, Markjames... we're part of that poor, and we never play. I don't actually know anyone who is low income and does play. Most folks are just trying to pay the bills.

You must have an odd view of humanity from wherever it is.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I think Markjames has it right -

From the link, people whose income is below $13,000 a year spend, on average, $635 a year on lotto tickets, some 9% of their income.

But me? Since I understand the laws of probability and math, I know that every time I loose, it increases my chance of winning the next time.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I'm frankly shocked by that 9% figure - though I don't know why.

This is interesting, too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Biggest suckers


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RE: one drop in the bucket

And this, too...

FTA: "Basically, the poor play all the lotteries. The rich just go for the big ones, but when the big ones happen, they do it at the same level as the poor."

Here is a link that might be useful: Differences


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RE: one drop in the bucket

My parents never played the lottery, but I have a grandmother who did -- and probably still does -- and I had a lot of uncles and aunts who also played. One might think that would have influenced me to play, but if anything, it probably did the opposite. After all, even when I was eight years old, I could see that my uncles and aunts, despite playing the lottery every day, weren't exactly rich. And my relatives always made it clear that they knew they were on a fool's errand.

Some of our aunts (income/savings poor) currently spend over 50% of their incomes on cigarettes and scratch-off tickets alone. They buy lottery, megamillions and powerball tickets as well, but spend relatively little in comparison to scratch-offs.

When we were kids, they served as a good example of a bad example as they never had a pot to pi$$ in despite working full time, overtime and second jobs.

Most of their kids and grandkids followed in their footsteps smoking and scratching away most of their disposable income and/or their rent and bill money.

They don't buy the cheap $1 and $2 scratch-offs as the prizes aren't high enough.

Many also believe in lucky regions and lucky stores.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Mark , none of my business so don't feel you need to answer.......honestly.....

But I am embarrassingly curious....how many Aunts, Uncles and first cousins do you have?........I'm also curious about how many brothers and sisters you have . I really would normally never ask such a question but you reference them so often.

As I say no need to answer..........


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RE: one drop in the bucket

David, I hate to be the one to tell you this but you are not going to improve your odds by continuing to buy tickets. (I hope you were being sarcastic) Every time a ticket is issued for a particular contest, the odds are reset. The only thing that changes the odds for that contest is the total number of tickets purchased so in fact each ticket purchased, including your own, reduces your odds of winning in a particular drawing.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 7:15

Gee I wonder how many "greenbacks" Ms MacKenzie dropped playing the lottery over the years? This woman, living in low income housing, is the exact stereotype of those who waste, in y'alls opinion, their money ... and yet the reaction from y'all is so different for this woman.

Wonder why that is?

(^_^)


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RE: one drop in the bucket

David, a trained scientist, was likely pulling of collective cyber-legs with his remarks about probabilities.

My son is another one who spends way to much on scratchoffs looking to make the big store so he can by the old man a farm and comfort in his old age.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

David, I never bet unless it's a sure thing... and there aren't many sure things in this life.

There is a difference, however, when we're talking games of skill as opposed to games of the unknown. Skill can greatly increase one's odds of winning. Lotto is not one of those games.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

But I am embarrassingly curious....how many Aunts, Uncles and first cousins do you have?........I'm also curious about how many brothers and sisters you have . I really would normally never ask such a question but you reference them so often.

I have 3 sisters, 3 brothers, 4 step sisters and 3 step brothers.

I have 6 aunts on one side of the family alone. Our aunts on one side had very large families - the smallest with 7 kids and the largest with 15 or 16 kids. I have 2 uncles on this side of the family with 5 and 6 kids that we know of.

Many of our cousins' kids have large families as well, most single parent households. We have no idea how many kids many of the males have fathered.

On the other side of the family I have 3 aunts and 3 uncles with 0 to 3 kids each - all highly successful. None are smokers or gamblers either, although they make small bets during horse racing season.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Scratch-Offs are extremely popular as there are many lower paying winning tickets, plus the instant gratification factor.

When many win, they'll cash in their tickets immediately, then keep playing until they lose, run low on money, or run out of money.

Many customers in the stores with CoinStar machines cash in their slips then walk directly to the scratch-off ticket vending machines.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

It is so much easier than critical thinking... this much is true.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Ohiomom, I am not a proponent of schadenfreude. I don't think it is a good thing to keep reducing your options as you grow older. We don't know a lot about this woman except for her age and she hasn't been living in a mansion. Why not be happy at her luck and wish her well?

If she is paying her bills, not going to bars, not living the highlife or collecting welfare, then as far as I am concerned, she can buy as many lottery tickets as she thinks she can afford. At the new price of $2 per ticket, $104 a year is still a fairly cheap price for entertainment. If she was indulging in more I might look askance.

I don't buy lottery tickets. I rarely even think of them but we bought 10 of them and included them in an unimaginative wedding gift for a relative we aren't close enough to to know their tastes. The thank you note said they enjoyed the little fantasy when they opened the gift.They also thanked us for the white towel sets. I think they enjoyed the tickets more than a box of fancy soaps to go with the towels.

In no case do I think the 84 year old winner deserved the negative reaction she got from so many sanctimonious fools.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 14:52

We don't know a lot about this woman except for her age and she hasn't been living in a mansion. Why not be happy at her luck and wish her well?

.....so you must have missed the other thread on food stamps cause that sure don't stop some folks from passing judgment on total strangers. Course to be honest (wink wink) ya know the kind of folks (wink wink) they are, ya know what I mean ?? wink wink

There are days visiting this forum I feel like I need a bath ... this is one of them.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Excuse me. Please show me where I have posted on any of those threads to express those particular opinions.

Is there fraud? Of course there is. I know of at least one person who makes me furious and there is nothing I can do about it but refuse to have anything to do with him. If I can't do that, I tell him directly that I don't like what he openly brags about. He laughs and considers me a fool for not doing the same thing then wants to show off his newest toys.

That does not mean that everyone else does the same thing. I wish there was a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. People like the person discussed in the op knows he can use the system as it exists. He thinks it is a good thing to use the system the way he does. He would be insulted or deeply amused if he read the comments here that don't approve of what he is doing. Thats what it is there for, he would probably say. He doesn't think he is hurting anyone. Should we somehow approve of his behavior?

That does not have anything to do with the lottery winner who only collects Social Security which she and her husband paid into. Since she seems to own the co-op such as it is, she isn't likely to have received welfare.

You have some very strange ideas.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 19:44

"You have some very strange ideas."

Thank you :)


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Before she passed away, my fairly successful aunt had a main home in a cold winter weather state and a trailer in a warm winter weather state. She lived exactly the winter life style that she desired, partly because of that trailer.

Quite a nice estate when she passed on.

Don't be so quick to judge.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I don't think that is the case here. I am glad your aunt was able to do it. There aren't any requirements to be well off to win the lottery. I didn't judge except to feel good that someone who could use it got it and wished her well.

What is your point? Sounds like you are stretching a bit but I don't see it.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

No worries, sleepless. ;-) I don't play the lottery - or gamble in casinos.

To quote the illustrious author Ambrose Bierce, "Lottery: a tax on people who are bad at math"


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Speaking of gifts, I often give scratch-off tickets as gifts to people that buy a lot of scratch-offs.

They seem more excited about the scratch-offs than most other gifts, plus they're healthier than what they would buy with cash - cigarettes and junk food.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Let's see, how can we put a stop to this kind of thing?

Anyone?

Baby daddy must be brought in before baby leave hospital to go home with baby mama? DNA samples? Put a limit on how many they can fdaddy? In a year? In a month? In a lifetime? Limit the number of baby mamas per baby daddy? Limit the number of babies per baby daddy? There is no limit for baby mamas, so that probably won't fly.

Come on, how about some imagination here. All the fair-minded individuals we have posting here??? Not one idea from any of you. Oh, I forgot, it's just not that big a problem. Those babies will have a wonderful life.

You can bet on it - or buy a scratch off.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I've had "some" success offering some I know incentives not to reproduce, at least until they can be somewhat self sufficient.

I use many poor single mothers and poor deadbeat sperm donors as good as examples of bad examples as well.

If seeing the lifestyles most of our local poor single mothers and deadbeat dads live isn't enough to make someone choose a different path in life, there's little hope for them.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

I think it all comes down to education, which means money to pay for helpful programs for ALL districts, not just those in affluent areas. Are "life skills" classes still taught? I think learning to deal with money is extremely important and many, many kids don't get that particular education in their families. How many people who gamble on a regular basis really understand the statistics that go along with?


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Here's some life skills being taught:

"Left on the rolls, you have African Americans that live in devastated communities and come from families that have been on welfare for multiple generations," said Joe Antolin, executive director of Chicago Connections, a Heartland Alliance program. "They need job experience. They need to learn how to work."

The transitional jobs program provides basic education classes, social workers, mentors and transportation assistance. Funded by the City of Chicago, it costs between $7,000 and $9,000 per client, compared with about $1,152 per client in the state's Work First programs in the 2002 fiscal year. The program works with about 300 clients at a time, and 78 percent of those who completed it held onto their jobs for at least 180 days, Antolin said."

What the article doesn't mention, is the many ways that stop or reset the 60 month benefit clock. Having another baby is one way.

Here is a link that might be useful: full Chicago Reporter article


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RE: one drop in the bucket

When I was young I met a number of men that had broken from a background and tradition of poverty. Most all of them had one thing in common; military service by way of the draft. It was a time when the military took all kinds, regardless of education or criminal background, and made something of them. Though it was not designed to fight poverty, that was the effect. And no other program has been as successful.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

What the article doesn't mention, is the many ways that stop or reset the 60 month benefit clock. Having another baby is one way.

From the Illinois Department of Human Services:

TANF IS TIME LIMITED
You may only receive cash assistance for a total of five years (60 months).

What does the time limit mean?

You may only receive cash assistance as an adult for a total of five years in your lifetime, no matter where you live. Any month in which you receive cash benefits counts toward the five-year (60-month) time limit. If you leave and then come back on cash assistance, the count picks up where it left off. It does not start over. A relative who only receives cash for the children living with them has no time limit.

WHAT stops the time limit?

Your TANF 60-month clock runs unless:
Your case number starts with 04 or P4 and - you work at least 30 hours per week or

- you attend college full-time in a degree program and have at least a 2.5 grade point average on a 4-point scale. (Limit of 36 months not counted for this reason.)

Your case number starts with 06 or P6 and you and the children's other parent work a total of at least 35 hours per week.

You have a disabled child under 21 approved for a Home & Community-based Care Program waiver.

We approve you to care for a child under age 18 or your spouse due to their medical condition.

We approve you for a Family Violence Exclusion.

If you work enough hours, you will NEVER use up your time!

Is there a time limit for my SNAP benefits and medical?
No, the TANF five-year time limit does not affect SNAP or medical.

After my time limit is up, can my children still get cash assistance?

No. A parent who uses up their five years (60 months) of TANF cannot get cash benefits just for the children.

EXCEPTIONS TO THE 60-MONTH LIMIT

Your family might be able to receive more than the 60 months of TANF benefits if you or another adult in your case:

have a pending SSI application and are determined disabled by us; or

are determined unable to work at least 30 hours per week due to a medical condition; or

are in an intensive program that prevents working at least 30 hours per week (includes DCFS, domestic or sexual violence, homeless services, mental health, substance abuse, and vocational rehabilitation programs); or

are in an approved education or training program that will be finished within 6 months after the end of the 60 months; or

are approved to care for a related child under 18 or spouse due to their medical condition; or

have a disabled child under 21 who is approved for a Home and Community-based Care waiver. If you think you qualify for an exception and want to apply for one, you must file a written request.

If you think you qualify for an exception and want to apply for one, you must file a written request. snip end quote

So, from what I read, just "having another baby" isn't enough to continue to get TANF benefits past 60 months.

edited to change link title

Here is a link that might be useful: link

This post was edited by david52 on Wed, Jun 12, 13 at 13:18


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Do we know that all of this man's children are on public support or is everyone just assuming that? Just wondering.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Time limit on benefit receipt
Federal rules or guidelines1 There is a lifetime time limit of 60 months on a family''s receipt of federally-funded benefits, but states may exempt up to 20% of their caseload from this limit and/or use state funds to extend benefits.

I'll look again later. I know I saw that exception. I think it is for state funds.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

On several sites, it's noted the state of Tennessee pays out about $7000 a month to support these 22 kids of Orlando Shaw. Nothing specific about the 14 moms - some of whom must have "slipped" for this road apple multiple times.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Our cash assistance caseloads - FA and SNA have been dropping due to the work search, training and participation requirements.

We know many poor single mothers most of which work part-time, many of which are frequently unemployed between part-time jobs, hence why they remain poor.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

That $7,000 figure is dirt cheap for so many kids.

They either have a dirt cheap cost of living and/or the mothers aren't applying for, or receiving many benefits.


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Education indeed works.

Fifty years of liberals teaching people that if they are not personally responsible the taxpayers will take up their slack has been a lesson ingrained and well learned.

THAT education is why we are discussing the ramifications of a "liberal education."


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RE: one drop in the bucket

Yeah but is it his fault he hasn't won the lottery yet? I'd love to find out how many babies those mommies EACH has.

-Ron-


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RE: one drop in the bucket

There has to be something with how individual states treat welfare recipients. All I know is that in my state single mothers make out very well if they work but have a babysitter. The welfare income is double or so. Many family members come out of the wood work to babysit and get paid WELL.


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