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Nuns Shoot Back

Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 3, 12 at 23:10

The Vatican's poorly worded excoriation of US nuns has drawn fire.

Leaders representing most of the nation's 57,000 Catholic nuns on Friday (June 1) answered a Vatican crackdown on their group by charging that Rome's criticisms of the sisters were "unsubstantiated," caused "scandal and pain" and "greater polarization" in the church.

"Moreover, the sanctions imposed were disproportionate to the concerns raised and could compromise their ability to fulfill their mission," the 22-member board of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious warned in a statement issued after a special four-day meeting in Washington."

In an interview Friday with the National Catholic Reporter, LCWR president Sr. Pat Farrell, a member of the Sisters of St. Francis in Dubuque, Iowa said that in raising doctrinal and theological issues the nuns in her organization have also been reflecting a wider conversation among Catholics in the church -- and one that often finds no other outlet in officialdom.

"The insinuation that I think many people could draw from reading that Vatican document is that if we raise those questions, we're unfaithful to the church," Farrell said. "That's not true. And I don't think that's really fair. I think, in fact, that that is a sign of our deepest faithfulness to the church -- questions that the people of God need to raise, that we need to talk about together in a climate of genuine dialogue." (Thous shalt not think out loud)

The the Leadership Conference of Women Religious represent a large group of moderate to liberal leaning nuns in the US while Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious represents a smaller number of more conservative leaning nuns.

The Vatican's position is that nuns are spending far too much time dealing with poverty & issues of social injustice rather than spending their time opposing Burt control, abortion & Marriage equality.

“I’m stunned,” said Sister Simone Campbell, executive director of Network, a Catholic social justice lobby founded by sisters. Her group was also cited in the Vatican document, along with the Leadership Conference, for focusing its work too much on poverty and economic injustice, while keeping “silent” on abortion and same-sex marriage.

Too much charity, in other words, and not enough sanctimony. To rectify the imbalance, the Vatican announced it would send three doctrinally secure bishops to overhaul the nuns' policies, reset their hierarchy, approve speakers at their meetings, and generally dictate their behavior for a period of up to five years.

Taliban Light!

Here is a link that might be useful: Nunsense


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Nuns Shoot Back

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 4, 12 at 6:30

.....so they will send a MAN to straighten these wayward radical feminists out who are wasting the church's resources on the poor.

Paradigm shift=wonderland

SMH


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The upstarts need to be have some whacks with a ruler to make them toe the line...


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and "greater polarization" in the church.

Meaning there were already problems?


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Well I think the final straw for the Vatican was former Sr Margaret McBride who was excommunicated for permitting an abortion to save a woman's life.

The woman was pregnant with her 5th child had right heart failure & was too ill to be removed to the operating room let alone another Hospital. Doctors opinion was that if the pregnancy continued the woman stood a 100% risk of death.
McBride was a member of the ethics committee that gave the go ahead
See this is where an institution like this ceases to be a medical establishment but instead becomes a house of DEATH by DOGMA in the name of the father the son & the holy spirit.

McBride had a meeting with the woman

"I walked into the room and of course I burst into tears and she burst into tears, and she said, 'I'm so sorry for all these terrible things that happened to you. You saved my life, and all these terrible things happened to you,'" McBride said.

The Archdioceses of Pheonix severed it relationship with the hospital after the Hospital made clear medicine & ethic came before dogma. It would always try to save both first but in the case of the loss of one at the price of the other it would try to save the one that can survive.

McBride received the Call To Action 2011 Leadership Award at the Call To Action national conference Nov. 6 because she represents the "true meaning of a 'pastor' " according to Call To Action, a Catholic church reform group.
About 25 Sisters of Mercy joined her on stage as she accepted the award.
She concluded with a statement aptly fitting in with the rest of the weekend. "It's living on the margins that gives us that vista that we need in our church today."

She's reconciled with he Church formally.


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RE: Nuns Shoot Back

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 4, 12 at 8:52

....had a friend back in the last century, we were both pregnant at the time. She had a difficult birth and required a blood transfusion, her husband refused ... she died.

You could say this was the "straw that broke the camel's back" moment for me with 'organized religion'.

Just as I had decided not to vote this year in the presidential election, along came the fundies and their "occupation of vaginas". Another "straw" moment in time.

Bless these women who spend far too much time dealing with poverty & issues of social injustice rather than spending their time opposing birth control, abortion & Marriage equality.


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"Bless these women who spend far too much time dealing with poverty & issues of social injustice rather than spending their time opposing birth control, abortion & Marriage equality."

I could not have said it better, Ohiomom. These values and ideals that have become so twisted from their original intent and made into something ugly and irrational... these are a large part of why I cannot be a part of organized religion.

Times have changed, society has greatly changed, and our world has changed... but the still patriarchal church has remained stagnated, caught in its own tidal pool of hypocritical prejudice, greed, division and scandal.

Every piece of news that has been brought forward recently regarding the church and its poor behaviors reinforces my decision to separate from it.

I am glad, though, that some parts of the clergy remember the true message, why they dedicated themselves, and are fighting back against what the church has become.


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This is a a pretty good article by retired Episcopal Bishop John Spong. It outlines the fault lines currently within the Church in the US & the Vatican's flailing about for control.
As it's inner workings are in chaos from financial & political scandal it seeks to exercise stronger authority externally.
The brilliant light of the Church silence by Benedict, Han's Kung described Benedict as a kind of Putin trying to centralize Authority within the church.
Kung a former colleague of Putin/Benedict claims the church is seriously ill, that secrecy & misogyny are the heart of the problem.
He has also held other controversial positions & has said in light of the sexual scandals that the church survived it's first 1000 years without celibacy. That this needed to be revised again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Silence


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My grade school experience was with the Racine Dominicans - their early mission was the education of youth and care of the elderly. That changed when Vatican II called them to stretch beyond those early commitments and the mission ststement now says "committed to truth, compelled to justice". Actively involved with social work, parish ministry, efforts to assist the unemployed, the homeless, the homebound elderly, and those seeking health care, justice education ".

Now I only know the Benedictines across the avenue... "too much charity and not enough sanctimony" would make this a lesser city.


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  • Posted by natal Louisiana 8b (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 4, 12 at 12:30

The winds of change. Maybe another reformation on the horizon.

American nun's book on sexuality sparks controversy


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It's time for a Vatican III. In the early christian church, monks were allowed to marry. I understand the Catholic church is losing membership; many are "armchair" catholics who attend Mass twice a year, Xmas and Easter and practice birth control.

As for the pedofile issues, priests should be turned over to Civil law, not allowed to hide in Church law.


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As for the pedofile issues, priests should be turned over to Civil law, not allowed to hide in Church law.

I guess I didn't realize they are not subject to civil law when these things come up. How can the Church possibly be allowed to protect them? Is that more (snort) freedom of religion?


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In case after case in the Us & around the world the hierarchy did not report allegations of abuse or feel they were obliged to report allegations of abuse to civil authorities.
They were & are subject to civil law at all times if caught or if the issue came up.
The coming up part was often what was in question & what was still in question with efforts of the hierarchy to battle in civil courts to prevent statute of limitations from being extended.


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joe, thanks for posting that link to Spong. I hugely respect him. DH has read all of his books, I think. He's right on the money in his comments about Catholicism and Christianity, in general. One of his books posits the idea that Christianity must change, or it will die. Unfortunately, I think he is referring to Catholicism and Main Line Protestantism. Too many fundamentalist churches seem to be popping up, like ubiquitous weeds and, IMO, will be the downfall of this country if it continues.


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Sects area like Digressions of digressions from digressions.

Today Bryan Fischer was explaining how important it was to clean up the word discriminate & not to run away from it that it was important to discriminate. In this case his usually whipping target was marriage equality & homosexuality in general.


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Heats up a little bit more with the censure of Sr Margaret Farley the first woman to serve full time at Yale Divinity School (and a Catholic on top of that)
The Congregation for Doctrine on the Faith denounced her book Just Love as it did not conform with Catholic teachings.
Her response was that "
he book offers "contemporary interpretations" of justice and fairness in human sexual relations, moving away from a "taboo morality" and drawing on "present-day scientific, philosophical, theological, and biblical resources."

"I can only clarify that the book was not intended to be an expression of current official Catholic teaching, nor was it aimed specifically against this teaching. It is of a different genre altogether." She has retired and is no longer teaching.

Farley said she feared the Vatican “misrepresents (perhaps unwittingly) the aims of my work and the nature of it as a proposal that might be in service of, not against, the church and its faithful people.”

On Friday, the leaders of the American nuns whom the Vatican had criticized said the Holy See’s report was “based on unsubstantiated accusations and (was) the result of a flawed process that lacked transparency” and that the report had “caused scandal and pain throughout the church community.”

Sister Patricia McDermott President of the Association of the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas sent out this notice.

“Acknowledging that many will be ‘deeply saddened’ by Monday’s announcement of the Vatican’s criticism of Mercy Sr. Margaret Farley, the head of the global Mercy order has asked her sisters for their ‘careful and compassionate accompanying’ of those discouraged by the move.

” ‘I am sure that some of you will be angered and frustrated by this news and I totally understand your feelings and thoughts,’ writes Sr. Patricia McDermott, the president of the Institute of the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, in a letter addressed to all Mercy sisters and lay associates.

” ‘I have no doubt that many in our Church " including theologians, ethicists, pastoral ministers and concerned laity " will also be distressed with the public statement by [the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.]

” ‘I ask for your careful and compassionate accompanying of Margaret during this time as well as for those who will be saddened and discouraged by this announcement.’ “

It's done some good for Sr Farley's book sales & it's suggested that the questions raised in the book do not challenge the catechisms but mere;y reflect the same questions expressed by many Catholic.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Hat Express


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"One of his books posits the idea that Christianity must change, or it will die. Unfortunately, I think he is referring to Catholicism and Main Line Protestantism. Too many fundamentalist churches seem to be popping up, like ubiquitous weeds and, IMO, will be the downfall of this country if it continues."

As I've mentioned many times, L. Ron Hubbard was quoted as saying, and I'm paraphrasing here... "The fastest way to power and wealth is to start a religion." I think he was very correct in this observation, as we can see by all the "ministries" and tv evangelists, the various church sects departing from mainstream churches and going off on their own, and whatnot... and how extreme and off kilter some truly are...

What frightens me the most is how politically powerful religions are becoming, wanting desperately to insinuate their idea of moral behaviors into our laws... prying the freedoms and choices we fought hard to gain from our very hands, dictating to us what we can and can't do within the privacy of our own lives.

Morals, being the subjective things they are, cannot be objectively legislated... although, the more extreme of religions are doing just that... legislating by private belief system, and not by the rational idea of what's in the best interest of EVERY citizen our elected officials supposedly represent, which would include atheists, lgbt persons, minorities, and all manner of persons and private beliefs.

If the Vatican refuses to change, to move into the 21st century, to correct their inner flaws, so to speak... they will be on the losing end, and the "flocks" will further thin.

But what we need the most, I believe, is to remember well that even our founding fathers knew that maintaining separation of church and state was an extremely important idea to keep!


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 7, 12 at 22:04

I visualized rubber bands being fired from rulers.


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The Catholic hierarchy really seems to be stretching its muscles lately, all in the name of religious freedom, of course.
Or we could look at it as the Catholic Church flailing about, too corrupt to attack problems within its own organization.


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Bboy spitballs on black veils comes to mind (terrible children I grew up with)


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The Catholic hierarchy really seems to be stretching its muscles lately

There is some (rather weak) push back from the more liberal members of the clergy. I forgot where I saw the remarks against the lawsuit re health care reform legislation.


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Those rulers hurt when they connect with a child's knuckles or any other body part! Been there, done that... I guess I just wasn't catholic enough for them.


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I don't know anyone who went through the Catholic school system who didn't get a knuckle-rap with a stout wooden ruler. It's part of the lore - as would be the 15 decade rosary snagging with a surprised yank on the low bank of cabinet knobs. That was always good for a tee hee.


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clip: This is becoming a major revolt against the Vatican's attempt to police and control the nuns who don't adhere to Benedict's diktats. It's strongly worded and its message is clear: the Vatican's intrusion is "excessive". Here's the full text released yesterday morning. It is, as James Martin puts it, "fathers and brothers coming to the defense of their sisters. " It's a nuanced and respectful defense of core Catholicism, asserting that the current Vatican's insistence on total control over all issues, even those where there can and should be "courageous discernment", is actually against Catholic teaching, as expressed in the Second Vatican Council. And it gives me hope:

May 31, 2012

Open Letter to the United States Catholic Sisters

We, the Leadership of the Friars Minor of the United States, write today as your brothers in the vowed religious life who, like you, have great love for our Church and for the people whom we are privileged to serve. We write at a time of heightened polarization and even animosity in our nation and Church, with deep concern that the recent Vatican Doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) may inadvertently fuel the current climate of division and confusion. We write, too, as a public sign of our solidarity with you as you endure this very difficult moment. We are privileged to share with you the journey of religious life. Like you, we strive in all that we do to build up the People of God.

My daughter's school is Franciscan and I adore them...quite different from our home parish to say the least.

Here is a link that might be useful: from Andrew Sullivan


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