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Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Posted by hamiltongardener CAN 6a (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 19, 12 at 8:45

Sorry about the part 3 but wanted to respond to Marquest

Marquest said:
It is not uncommon especially in our senior population. They no longer drive and most at that age would not be traveling so they do not need ID.

I think there are a couple reasons why ID in your country vs ours is so different.

Probably the biggest reason, speaking for Ontario, is that our health insurance is tied to a photo ID card. You show that card at every doctor's office visit. If you don't have the card, you aren't covered. So everybody, young and old, takes the steps to get their ID.

Jerzee asked about remote or native populations. Same thing asabove for health coverage, but then there is also the added UID (again, photo ID) Indian Status Card which you must show when you make purchases in order to be exempt from taxes. On top of that, there are countless other benefits so it is something that everyone in a native community makes sure they have.

Plus, it's not difficult to get your birth certificate here. You fill out the paperwork for your child when it's born... for the 90 year olds around here, well, most got it when they were born too or they used other documents or had someone vouch for them when they got older. Baptismal certificates were often used.

If said a number of times on this forum that I think if that many people in your country have no documentation proving who they are, then it's a bigger problem than the voting issue. It should be a community and government priority to help each and every person gather together their identification. If the majority of them are elderly people... the best place to start is in the nursing homes. A requirement that nursing home staff call in a social service agency for any resident who doesn't have documentation PLUS funding for the program would be a proper start.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

HG,
My mother never drove and never had anything with a picture ID until I took her to get one after 9/11 .
She moved back to Canada in the 80's and so was there a long time without a picture ID.
At that time she could still get into the states with just a picture ID and so that is why she finally got one.
It was a long wait , hours, for her to get it. She did have to pay for it.

Not sure if there might be different provincial requirements for ID.
This was in BC

The fact that they are passing all these picture ID requirements right before an election is significant.
They know there won't be enough time for everyone who wants to vote to get a picture ID.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Chloe,

She had to have had her birth certificate or other documents in order to get her health card in BC. Or perhaps she went without healthcare that whole time? I don't know.

So between her birth cert, her health card, or her other documents... she had her identification, right? It was just a matter of getting a photo ID which, as you say, took hours.

I think what was being said in the other thread was that many elderly people in the states have no identification at all, no birth certificate, no baptismal certificate, nothing... so that's why they are not able to get a photo ID.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

In the post 9/11 era, combined with the manufactured hysteria of hordes of Mez'cans voting for Obamer, obtaining a new photo id is, at best, an expensive, time consuming process involving long lines, hours and hours, and often, the bending of a few rules by sympathetic bureaucrats. As often as not, it can become a Catch 22 where you need one id to get the other.

But hey, disenfranchising citizens from their fundamental, Constitutional, legal right to vote now seems to be ok, putting the onus on the voter.

Actually, there is, quietly, a fairly substantial fury about this, and the number of college kids who are now aware that the Republican party is out to deliberately disenfranchise them is growing, and its a long way until the election.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Thank you hamiltongardener. It is possible to get through life in the US without a photo ID. Because of this fact if the goal was voter fraud then you set in process of getting everyone a ID in a reasonable amount of time. If they had said within a year or two then I would think it was about the ID.

Our country has developed a lifestyle for so long that there was not a need for a photo ID if you lived the simple life. If you do not drive, you do not write checks, do not travel.

-Did not drive - They took Public Transportation
-No need to write a check you get a Debit Card connected to their checking account. If the Seniors do not have a checking account they are given a Debit card that is loaded with their SS every month.
-Travel - Well I know many that have never traveled via any mode of transportation other than in a car a few miles from home.

To disenfranchise so many from exercising their fundamental right to vote because you think you cannot win an election without doing this is profoundly a problem within our society. Worst is people that do not see it as wrong is even more of a problem.

The Micky Mouse story is false. There are process that prevent Micky Mouse from voting. But there are some people that would accept what is said and not check to find out the truth.

What does it say about you when you are aware you cannot win without cheating, and do not care about your seniors, and low income population.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

yes, she had ID, but not picture ID.

Those picture ID's expire. The second time I took her was right after she turned 90. She was a very alert and active 90 year old. The place was packed, elbow to elbow. It would have been a real ordeal if she had been using a walker or a wheelchair.

I don't find it odd at all that people don't have a birth certificate.

It doesn't come to you automatically. You have to send for it and in my experience it has not been free. Many people just don't bother.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Those picture ID's expire. The second time I took her was right after she turned 90. She was a very alert and active 90 year old. The place was packed, elbow to elbow. It would have been a real ordeal if she had been using a walker or a wheelchair.

And I agree with you.

And that's what I mean when I say that if it is THAT much of a problem to get your identification, then something needs to be done to fix that problem.

For example, you say the place is crowded and takes forever to get ID renewed when it expires. Did you know that here in Ontario, almost every mall has a kiosk where you can renew your Driver's Licence, your Healthcard... even renew the stickers on your licence plate?

Heck, if you don't need a new photo taken, you can even do all that stuff online. We just renewed all our ID online when we moved to our new house. They send us our new cards in the mail.

This may be where some improvements can be made. If people are bumping and elbowing people with walkers, packed into a room, it seems to me that these agencies need to hire more staff to take care of their backlog problem OR have alternate delivery methods such as mall kiosks or mobile centres that go to the nursing homes.

It doesn't come to you automatically. You have to send for it and in my experience it has not been free. Many people just don't bother.

Well, that may be the real problem. If people just don't bother to do it because it doesn't happen automatically then they only have themselves to blame. It doesn't happen automatically here either. We are expected to fill in the paperwork.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Hamilton all your ideas are good ones. But.....they do not fit with the mindset of the political process and ideal. The focus is cutting the budget....all your ideas would take money. That they do not want to spend. So it comes down to "so what" I can do it why would we care you are old and have difficulty at your age your ID has expired.

Well, that may be the real problem. If people just don't bother to do it because it doesn't happen automatically then they only have themselves to blame. It doesn't happen automatically here either. We are expected to fill in the paperwork.

Expected to fill our the paperwork again is why I bring up education is a big problem in the US. We have babies having babies and no education before or after they give birth. If you have a teen that just gave birth because she decided Abortion was not the answer for her. Now she should choose between feeding her child, vs filling out the papers pay for postage and the fee for the birth certificate. Which one do you think she is going to choose? This is not free. That 10.00 - 20.00 is that baby's needs for a piece of un-necessary paper at that time.

All I say is people have to walk a mile in someone's shoes before they designate "Personal Responsibility" ideals.

It is a circle we are now back to the difference of Political priorities and ideology of what is best for the country. Women's Rights, Education, Budget Cuts, Society Priorities, Health Care.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

First lets remind ourselves that we are talking about people who were already registered to vote-now in order to exercise that right they must prove who they are-somehow-that they are not some other ninety year oldster seeking to upset the apple cart on who will be the new Dike district commissioner.

Also one of the things that complicates our cultural system is the American disinclination to have a national ID-I was spoon fed the idea that first the Nazi make you get an ID and then they take away your guns.....It crimps efforts in identification and has been part of the 'can you prove you are an American' immigration issue.

I have always thought that the main difference between conservatives and liberals is imagination-the ability to see your self in another's shoes takes imagination. I can see my self as a 20 year old with a job that doesnt allow me to take off time to get an ID I am only going to use to vote so if I do this I am going to have to get a new job, or perhaps as an elderly person whose feet swell when I sit too long in those horrible plastic chairs which is going to play havoc with my siatica and what about my diabetes shot that I have to have before the lunch I am going to miss if this takes too long-and of course how am I going to get there in the first place unless I impose on my really nice neighbor but do I want to do that for this-what if I have a real emergency-but heck this is my personal responsibity what am I thinking?

It is entirely possible to not have a Birth Certificate-our very own MrsKjun had no birth certificate but her mother swore she was who she said she was when she was old enough to drive-so fortunately MrsK had a mother and she wasnt the wrong color. If you were born in the Hippy generation of the 60's and 70's it is possible to be fairly young and not have a birth certificate.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

"Also one of the things that complicates our cultural system is the American disinclination to have a national ID-I was spoon fed the idea that first the Nazi make you get an ID and then they take away your guns.....It crimps efforts in identification and has been part of the 'can you prove you are an American' immigration issue. "

Exactly and it is what the Canadian posters have a difficult time understanding.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

When we moved here I had to go to the DMV for my DH. I think it was to pay for the car license. It did take 10 minutes or so to get to the counter as there were dozens of others there. At the start of the line there was a notice stating the times that there was less waiting and the times you could expect a crowd. If I had called I could have saved some time. As I got the paperwork, the clerk asked if I needed to get my license changed. I said yes but I would come back when there was less of a crowd and had a chance to review the book. She said if I had been driving for a long time without violations I could probably pass with no problem. So I took the test and was diverted to another station where it was checked and told I passed but I missed one question (very annoying). I was sent to the next section where I took a vision test and a photo. While I waited I received the plates. It took anther 5 minutes to get the newly laminated drivers license. In all it probably took an hour from start to finish. Not too bad.

When it was time for renewal(4 years)it took 15 minutes at a slow business time. The next time was after I broke my back so I was using a walker. I was taken out of line as soon as I got there and helped to a chair. My renewal was processed immediately including vision test, photo and lamination and getting a handicap placard for the car. I was in and out in 15 minutes on a busy day.

Really difficult.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Exactly and it is what the Canadian posters have a difficult time understanding.

I think you're right. There are some differences like that I've run across, cultural differences, that make understanding each other's mindset difficult.

For example, in Patricia's post she said: I can see my self as a 20 year old with a job that doesnt allow me to take off time to get an ID

The first thing that crossed my mind was that you could do it on a vacation day. But that's a different mindset. In Canada, it is mandatory that we get at least 2 weeks paid vacation from our employers. Even waitresses or whatever other minimum wage job. But you guys aren't automatically entitled to paid vacation days... not even unpaid vacation... so it's a different mindset, right?

So what is a no-brainer to me is a completely different circumstance to you.

No vacation days, no healthcare, no sick days, a culture that is afraid of getting documentation that can only help you... it's all stuff that doesn't come naturally to me.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

patriciae, you did better than I could. "Walk a mile in my shoes" You hit the point of imagination can I add empathy. This is very wrong on so many levels.

I have a Personal Responsibility to be a caring human being and to care about others and their situation. I remember hearing a phrase long, long ago...."Selfish, thoughtless human Being". I now know what that meant.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Really difficult.

Last year I had to go the local CA Department of Motor Vehicles. First step, find out if the Santa Monica office is still open, or if it was closed in a previous round of budget cuts. Second, use the CA DMV website to schedule an appointment. Earliest appointment is in six weeks. Third, take time off to go in person. Fourth, parking lot is almost full at opening time. Fifth, wait in line about 10 minutes to be logged in and assigned a number, and then wait until called c. 40-50 minutes even with 10-12 windows operating.

DMV offices are closed Fridays in previous year's attempt to reduce costs. Same number of residents being served but with 20% cut in office hours to be served.

Obtaining records from Los Angeles County? I had to have my signature notarized on an application for a duplicate copy of my marriage certificate. Only one office open in the Los Angeles basin -- in Norwalk -- so request is made by mail with no given response time. I received a response after at least a month. I can't imagine what requesting a duplicate birth certificate would involve.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

A year and a half ago, I accompanied my MIL to a CA DMV to renew her license. She had to take the written test. We arrived, waited about 5 minutes for a number, waited another 10 minutes for her number to be called. She took the test and had to wait about 5 minutes for the results. They took her picture, handed her a temporary license and we left. Total time was less than 45 minutes.

How did those of you without copies of your birth certificate register for school? I moved frequently as a child and always had to have a copy of my birth certificate to register in the new school district.

When DD was born, we got several certified copies of her birth certificate. I've requested a copy of my birth certificate from a state in the midwest and got it within two weeks. The same was true for a copy of my marriage license from a state in the east.

My state has a mobile DMV office that anyone can request to come to a specific location. It is designed to assist people who live in nursing homes or assisted living facilities. Businesses, universities, neighborhood civic associations, military bases, etc can request that the mobile unit come to them.

The hassle factor must vary depending on the state and the time of day one visits the office supplying the document.

Back to the original subject, I think virtually all business owners are aware that they "used" government resources as much as the next guy for their business. At least where I live, businesses pay taxes that individuals do not pay to help cover the cost of those services. In my opinion, that speech was one of the most divisive speeches I've ever heard from a President. He pitted the business owner against those who do not own a business.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Oh so precisely-Sleepless-I am very glad that for you it is easy but where you live is not everywhere-that lack of imagination thing. When I moved to this state this time around It took around 5-6 hours to get your license. I had a recently issued valid license from another state. You stood in a line till you got to the front, did one thing and then went to the back of the line for the next step and so on-no chairs, no numbers till called. Since then a new administration changed all that and now it is more like Nancy's experience-one we are grateful for by comparison. The DMV office is in a weird little building in a hard part of town to get to with limited parking and I have to say I never saw a bus near there though I am sure if you walked a few blocks-in your orthopedic shoes you could use the bus. They have those hard plastic chairs now.

As I said before-we are talking about people who are registered to vote-the effort is to eliminate people who have already been voting-in the case of the elderly for 50, 60,70 years. Imagine if you can that you have voted in every election for 60 years, you can even pull out your original voter registration card but unless you can also produce a picture Id suddenly you cant vote. What a slap in the face. This is all to fix a problem that DOES NOT EXIST.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

It not only doesn't exist, but it's costing millions of state's dollars to implement it. So much for the belt tightening. We'll cut social services but spend millions and millions trying to suppress the vote. Lawsuits are a-coming. Who's paying for these??


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

the lawsuits might be coming lily, but 31 states already require photo ID. So I'm not sure if you think that's going to be overturned or what? So why sue, why not just everyone have an ID?


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I think the bomber of the Bulgarian Bus could have voted he had a phony US ID. Michigan I think!
My Birth certificate wan't good enough to get a State ID I needed a certified birth certificate & to get that I needed several pieces of valid ID. I was living debt free at the time no credit cards but a credit card was one of the forms of ID that was considered valid. An expired passport nah, took about 3 days of back & forth between city agencies to get a valid ID after 911 & only because a clerk shrugged and accepted my hospital birth certificate which DMV wouldn't accept so it was arbitrary. It's also a pretty stupid argument to begin with is is not is is not is is not and generally one of the GOP sacred grail strategies played out wherever elected.
NYC you have long lines & waits for everything!


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I happen to agree with the notion of photo ID or non photo with supporting documentation. However, I find the introduction of such legislation so close to a major national election to be highly questionable.

Why wasn't this done a year or two ago giving people lots of time to do what they need to do and giving concerned groups time to help those that may need it? I think the answer is self evident.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Exactly Chase..It was done for pure political reasons. All the states changing the law are run by Republicans. They will do anything to try to beat Obama. As evident in 2000, the GOP is run by a bunch of thugs. If they want the law changed it should be changed after the election not a few months before.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I just read the DOJ's long item on Sect. 5 of the Civil Rights Act. Gives you a good read on why some states have had their attempts at changing the law struck down and why/how some states can skirt the issue...

Here is a link that might be useful: Sect. 5 of the Voting Rights Act


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

One state accepts College ID's another wont it's all strange but I see both side of it. Even with a Medicaid ID EDD has had problems in the past when the morons elsewhere insist he doesn't exist. Might backfire hard to have poll challengers when you have ID.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

But wait, there's more....The Florida League of Women Voters, and other voter registration groups, have stopped conducting voter registration drives because of the onerous requirements that a new law has imposed on registration groups - stiff penalties.

The statute and rule impose a harsh and impractical 48-hour deadline for an organization to deliver applications to a voter registration office and effectively prohibit an organization from mailing applications in. And the statute and rule impose burdensome record-keeping and reporting requirements that serve little if any purpose, thus rendering them unconstitutional even to the extent they do not violate the NVRA. [...]

The worst parts of the law thankfully were blocked but the law is still having an affect on registration.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

So why sue, why not just everyone have an ID?

See there's that reading comprehension problem again.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Thu, Jul 19, 12 at 17:38

"Why wasn't this done a year or two ago giving people lots of time to do what they need to do and giving concerned groups time to help those that may need it? I think the answer is self evident."

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on Thu, Jul 19, 12 at 18:06
"...the GOP is run by a bunch of thugs. If they want the law changed it should be changed after the election not a few months before."

___________________

WASHINGTON : Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - "A Texas law supported by Republicans requiring voters to have photo identification was passed to discourage Hispanics and African-Americans from casting ballots, an expert witness for the U.S. government testified in a landmark trial on Tuesday.

But lawyers for the state of Texas said the federal government was exaggerating the number of people who would not be eligible to vote under the law passed in 2011."

Just an example, Chase. This push for better voter identification is not brand new; the anti-ID hysteria simply grows as the big election nears.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Right now in Texas, people can vote with identification which does not have a photograph, such as a student ID and Social Security cards.

Driver's licenses or concealed weapons permits will be the only valid form of voter identification if the law is implemented.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Whatever. The point is that although there is plenty of pending legislation, this did not start yesterday. That's all I'm saying.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Chloe, I think you have incorrect or incomplete information. In addition to the driver's license and concealed carry permit, I believe that election identification certificates, Dept of Public Safety personal ID cards, U.S. military ID, US citizenship certificates and a US passport will be acceptable IDs.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

my source

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

jlhug, is proof of the problem. I am assuming you are young intelligent mobile but not aware that the law has changed.

Imagine the same onus put upon the elderly.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Actually, there is, quietly, a fairly substantial fury about this, and the number of college kids who are now aware that the Republican party is out to deliberately disenfranchise them is growing, and its a long way until the election.

Hmmmm, I still have my photo ID from college and it was free (well sort of). I am almost positive all colleges issue photo ID's.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

"Imagine the same onus put upon the elderly."

The use of the word "onus" is very appropriate, in that it implies responsibility. The elderly are probably the most responsible of us all. I'm sure they're up to the challenge of figuring out any voter requirements. And you can volunteer in your spare time to help them, marquest.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

you do know that you need id to get food stamp,social security and many other government benefits besides voting.
also if plan on flying, going to bank, paying by check or cashing check. you need ID.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Marquest, I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry because of your comment about me. It only goes to show how wrong assumptions can be.

I am not young. I am most definitely in the senior citizen age group. Mobile? That's funny! My knees creak with every step, especially in the morning. (I'm joking - I do realize you mean mobile as in drive a car/have access to public transportation mobile. I drive a Prius so I qualify for that kind of mobile.) Intelligent? Thanks, as the "senior moments" become more frequent, I'm not so sure that applies.

Part of the problem, I'm not so sure. All I've done is point out my experiences with getting driver's licenses and registering for school. I did do some research on what my state of residence offered to assist less mobile residents in getting IDs.

Being asked for an ID has never offended me. I'd much rather be asked for an ID than have someone pretend to be me for any reason.

I don't think that having to provide a picture ID in order to vote is a bad thing. I wish that the new law would make having an ID mandatory for people under the age of 70 or so with that age increasing by a year every year until everyone is required to have an ID. I cannot imagine being a younger person with no picture ID in this day and age.

Chloe, here is my source for the voter ID requirements for Texas under the new voter ID law if it is implemented. I think the reporter in your link didn't do a very good job of gathering and verifying information. You have to scroll down to Table 2 to find Texas in the chart.

Here is a link that might be useful: Voter ID requirements


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Back to the original subject, I think virtually all business owners are aware that they "used" government resources as much as the next guy for their business. At least where I live, businesses pay taxes that individuals do not pay to help cover the cost of those services. In my opinion, that speech was one of the most divisive speeches I've ever heard from a President. He pitted the business owner against those who do not own a business.

Jlhug, I'm very glad you mentioned this. Your rational perspective helps, because it's hard for me to see that the President's speech was so terribly offensive. Yes, businesses pay certain taxes for services that individuals don't; but individuals pay certain taxes for services (school millages for instance) that businesses are exempt from. Doesn't it even out? And aren't businesses just made of individuals? How exactly do you see the speech as divisive?

I've recently started my own (very) small business, and I really don't find what Obama said that terrible. I've got the skills I have due to federal grants that paid for my graduate education, etc etc. But I don't feel my own personal accomplishments are somehow denigrated by that fact, nor do I feel "pitted" against those who haven't started a business. Could you expand on that?


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Jul 20, 12 at 7:44

"land of opportunity"

How could anyone disagree that this country provides the "opportunity" to succeed, and isn't this just what the president was saying.

I have read repeatedly on this forum how everyone has the opportunity to succeed, as long as they are willing to work.

Free public education, financial aid for college, loan/grants for start up businesses. Tax subsidies/breaks to ensure the business succeeds.

Not every country provides the opportunities to do so, so even though people work hard to succeed they do not do so in a vacumn but through a system of "opportunity" provided to them by this great country.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Yesterday I had DirectTV installed at the new location.

Guess what? The installer was wearing a photo ID on his shirt.

Guess what else happened? DirectTV called me within an hour after installation to complete a performance survey. The FIRST question was:

Did installer present a photo ID upon arrival?

YES!...He did!

Having a photo ID in 2012 seems pretty damn simple to me. I seem to need one everywhere I go these days. I like showing my handsome face. :)


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

The world can always use one more handsome face, Brushworks!


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Do you see some kind of connection between letting a stranger enter your house and the right to vote brush?


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Ink,

It's stupid to defend the NO ID movement.

Whether it's to vote, or attend a meeting at city hall, or get a driver's license, or cash a check, a photo ID is required here!!!!

My doctor requires a photo id along with my health care card. Why? People cheat! That's why!

And why don't you trust a stranger at the door? Are you a paranoid old man? LOL


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Circus, at least in my area, school millages aren't separated from the rest of real estate taxes. If a business owns any real estate, then they pay taxes on that real estate which includes the school taxes. Here, they also pay a tax on the value of their tangible business assets (computers, furniture, vehicles, etc.)

The overall message I got from Obama's speech was an attempt to agitate the non-business owners into a anti-business owner frame of mind. His message came across as the business owners owe the rest of us a whole lot of credit and money for letting them use our roads, etc. I think he was trying to whip up more support for raising the taxes on the 1% (which I agree with) but ended up attacking the small business as well. He really downplayed the individual's efforts and risk in starting and running a business, in my opinion and that is where his message went astray. If starting a business only took the support of the rest of the nation, why doesn't everyone start a business?

I also listened to his speech which only served to reinforce my impression of his speech. I must admit that I seldom listen to his speeches or most politician's speeches because most of them use inflections and cadence in their speech that is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I also don't like being shouted at for any reason and they all shout. Yeppers, that's my personal pet peeve so I read speeches instead of listening for the most part.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I had to show a photo ID to pick up concert tickets at willcall a few weeks ago. And yesterday, I had to show a photo ID to return an item without a receipt. Walking around without a photo ID is stupid. Won't it be great when we are all microchipped? ;-)


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

"Do you see some kind of connection between letting a stranger enter your house and the right to vote brush?"

Don't you?

IDs screen out those with the right to perform the task from those without.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

The overall message I got from Obama's speech was an attempt to agitate the non-business owners into a anti-business owner frame of mind.

Exactly right. As I said before, I've yet to ever see another person pick theur words so carefully. He knew exactly what he was doing with that speech.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

How easy is it to get a fake ID? Ask any college kid.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

JG, when you can get every other company and agency to stop asking for photo id, then I'll stop supporting photo id for voting. THis didn't just come up. This has been going on since the LAST election. Poor bleeding heart liberals are only crying about it now because they can't get grandpa who died 20 years ago to vote for Obama.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I am going to borrow Anne Romney's talking YOU PEOPLE are all hypocritical.

First there is no voter fraud. Second, no one has said people should not have ID. If the ID is required you implement policy in a orderly, legal, effective way. You do not rush a policy for Political gain. That is not deniable when you have politician stand up and shout from the roof top that is how we will win the election. Do any of you have any problem with cheating? Is that the only way you feel you can win an election? Is that what you feel Democracy is about?

If a Republican say this is what we will do you run for the wagon throw your brain in and hook your body to the wagon and say drag me until I am bloody.

The President says everyone should have Health Insurance and it is the worst idea ever spoken. How dare you tell me I have to spend my money. Voter ID who cares how much they have to spend. "Personal Responsibility" You are Hypocrites.

jlhug, I had to laugh because we are health wise in the same row boat. You are still proving the point. The new law was stopped. That was said in the original post. What you think is the law is Texas voting req. now because the new law was stopped. But my response was to show people that although there are some seniors that are still movers and shakers, there are some that are just shaking. I have a soft spot in my heart for those shakers. That is my pet peeve.

The woman I am helping now she will probably vote for Romney but my issue is not who she votes for but that she has a right to vote. She is in the category of White, old, raised with the bias of African American is of the lower class. Her comments are "bigot" so there is not much doubt in my mind which button she is going to push. But she has the right to feel how she feels and that right should not be taken away from her.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I think that requiring a picture ID to vote is a good thing. I do believe that maybe a phase in based on age would be appropriate. I think clearing the voter registrar's records of illegal immigrants and dead people is needed. I do not believe there is NO voter fraud. I think that voter fraud exists but is seldom discovered or reported.

Again, I do believe that requiring a picture ID in order to vote is a good thing.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I've posted several times about the hassles proving my kids to be citizens, and spending days at the county registrar getting it sorted out - along with all the people from the nursing homes doing the same thing.

Birth certificates and drivers licenses are not proof. And so presenting a photo id does not make you legally eligible to vote.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

What Marquest said.

The issue about Photo ID is not being against photo ID-good grief. I wish I new French because some of you obviously arent ever going to get it in English. Urdu? Maybe Swahili?
What is so hard to understand?

People who do not have a photo ID and in many cases will have a hard time getting that ID due to any number of issues in their lives are going to be disenfranchised-they will not be able to vote-the most sacred foundation stone of the United States of America-the right to representation-the reason we fought a war of independence. This most basic of rights-one that women went to prison for and Blacks were clubbed in the streets trying to exercise is going to be taken from THOUSANDS of people in the name of protecting the voting process from imaginary ilegal voters.
Every state that has looked into their problem of illegals voters have found virtually none-and those usually felons voting by mistake but lets not let that get in the way of this urgent push to disenfranchise our voters.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Marquest, I don't want to win by cheating. But this issue has been around, AS I SAID, since LAST election. This didn't just come up yesterday or the day before. You all are just raising a stink because now it's just before the NEXT election and it still hasn't been resolved. No, I'm not happy about some moron in Pa. talking about how now the GOP's going to win the election. If I were in Pa, I'd be offering my services to run people around to GET them their id's. I don't want to stop any bona fide citizens from voting. I DO, however, want to make sure they're the ONLY ones voting.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

If I were in Pa, I'd be offering my services to run people around to GET them their id's

But, it's just easier to whine or maybe shed a few tears.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

I'm not whining about a damn thing!! Except that there are alot of people who DO live in Pa, and could do the very same thing, but would rather piss and moan about those bad republicans and looky what they done!


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Bill..just a little odd that as soon as we get the right wing nut balls in charge in PA, that's their first priority and they rush it thru. Why? As Mike Turzai said..to beat Obama..as if we didn't know. They could wait till after the election. EIGHT cases of voter fraud in 8 years and they are spending million and millions of dollars while cutting social programs. makes sense.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Regardless, Lily-- instead of crying foul, BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME! That puts you on the high ground! Additionally, it takes another possibility of the GOP crying foul on the election count! This whole thing about complaining about needing ID for voting is ludicrous! This is something that should've been done long ago. Do you know anyone from your town or county's Democrat committee?


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Bill, Democrats are in the distinct minority in the area of PA I live in, so no.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

No whining here and I am putting my money where my mouth is.

There are a lot of us doing it. My church members are helping and my garden club members are involved. We had a few older ladies in the garden club that did not know Pa had changed. They happened to hear us talking about the change. I was saying I cut my plant budget so if anybody did not have the money for the birth certificate I am paying for that and picked up a book of stamps to mail the application.

The only people that can do anything are retired people because if you work of course you cannot take the time during the day. You could get someone like I had say they are not feeling good then you would have taken a day off for nothing.

There was no public announcement, if they did not get the local newspaper or happen to hear the few seconds of it mentioned on the news is the only way you found out. The news people do not like to report anything unless it is sensationalized news.

It will be Okay..... being old I learned when you do things like this it never works out as you planned. Since they think that it is the only way they can win they have a lot more problems than they think.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Lily, minority or not, there's GOT to be someone who can mobilize that kind of effort. Lay down and take it, and then you're right-- they've won.... and we've ALL lost, because regardless of who "wins" the election, if it's not won fair and square, then democracy's done, and we've lost everything this country stands for. No, I don't want Obama to win. But I don't want to beat him by cheating, either. That goes against everything I believe in.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

LOL! I totally forgot to mention that I obviously did not have my birth certificate with me when I went to the DMV the first time. It was buried in the mess of papers stuffed into the drawers of DH's desk and would take days to locate.(I got him a file cabinet but it hasn't been opened since I set up the folders 20 years ago). However I did have my Wisc. license which was still legal. They had a computer link that verified it. Most states do have such a link. I still had to have one other form of ID that had an address so we looked through my billfold to see what was there. They accepted my new Blockbuster card.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Sorry, Bill! I wasn't referring to YOU whining! On the contrary.

There is a large group of illegal aliens heading from AZ across the southern US. Their final destination? The DNC!! I wonder whose paying for the bus since I am sure ID is required to rent it.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

You must think you are so funny...a legend in your own mind.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Photobucket


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)


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On The Road Pt 3


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Photobucket


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Just found out that there was a young girl in Aurora that did not make it out of the theater with her friends. Nobody has heard from McKenzie, and her friend said that she did not have any ID on her. Of course, they are fearing the worst and IF she is deceased, they may not know for days. :(


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

You must think you are so funny...a legend in your own mind.

JZ, if this is directed at me regarding the illegals and the DNC. It wasn't a joke; I heard it on the local news.


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RE: Road building Pt 3, (or voting issues)

Thank you Bill and Nancy for the funny comics. Some comic relief. The series of cels ending with the demand for civil rights against the patrol officer is so right on the money. We really are ready to give up privacy and rights of assembly as long as we can continue to support the Second Amendment. The others aren't important anymore.


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