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Chicago Holiday Crime

Posted by october17 5chgo (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 8:54

The count is higher actually. It's 70 wounded and 12 dead.

Come on now everyone. I want to hear lots and lots of demonization of these shooters.

Here is a link that might be useful: 10 dead, 55 wounded in shootings


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Demonize the shooters? What are you saying October? These people killed people, wounded people, they had murder and mayhem on their minds, why shouldn't they be demonized.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

looking at your profile i'm assuming you're in Chicago area? I live just the next county over from Detroit...and yes i'd complain about the murder there till we're blue in the face...


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

It wasn't me... I've been home all week...


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Must have all been on the South Side of Chicago. Right, Heri?

Northern people would never do anything like that.

Hay


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Well, mrsK, what I mean is, the demonization of Zimmerman versus the "excusation " of "poor" minority criminals I so often see here. And everywhere else.

In the news here, all I hear is how terrible and understaffed the police are, what are the police doing to combat these crimes, blah blah blah.

Who is "raising" all these criminals? They are not wandering in from the cocoonish rural areas to cause mayhem and go back home. These criminals live right in or very near the neighborhoods they kill in.

They need - no, demand - police protection to walk little kids to school. How about doing something besides blaming the CPD? Anyone have any ideas? You already know my idea.

They knocked down housing projects and many of those residents disbursed out to suburbs. Guess what? Crime rates in the suburbs has risen since then.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

I don't recall anyone here excusing the behaviour of criminals, poor, rich , white or black....perhaps you could point me in that direction.

I really don't understand the connection to Zimmerman ...what has he got to do with urban criminals?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

What do you suppose forces people into behavior deemed 'criminal'? And why do such crimes usually end in violence? People aren't born criminal, nor do they wake up one day and say, "Gee, today would be a great day to begin my career as a criminal."

People are normally forced into the world of crime by certain circumstances, such as economic... being a criminal of any type is usually not a choice preferred.

Unfortunately, a lot of crime ends in violence... it's the nature of the "business".


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

  • Posted by brute Florida 9B (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 15:25

If I were a betting man, I'd bet my bottom dollar that all of the shooters and most of their victims grew up fatherless.
This is what several generations of taxpayer-subsidized single motherhood has brought us. Many years ago I heard a quote that went something like: "When the White illegitimacy rate reaches that of the Black, this nation will become ungovernable."


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

The sad part is, some actually believe that rhetoric is true...


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 16:05

I always read the comments from the readers on these articles, and we have for your reading entertainment ...and of course these are from the "decent upstanding folks"


Who is our newest Ghetto Lottery® winner?
In all the excitement, I forgot who bet what

a lot of taxpayers were actually disappointed with the low kill ratio!

feral porch apes

....and then of course my all time fav "let us thank the Lord that no actual human beings were killed or wounded"


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Fatherless? That's the nail on which you hang your argument? I guess I better look out. I grew up without my daddy. Hm. Serving in the military overseas, does that count as "absent"? Oh no. I'm also pasing on that poor raising I received. I may as well give up.

P.S. this isn't misdirection, since the whole thread is misdirection, right?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 14:44

What do you suppose forces people into behavior deemed 'criminal'?

*

Not a DARNED THING "forces" anyone into criminal behaviorl

NOTHING.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"People are normally forced into the world of crime by certain circumstances, such as economic"

Expected that one.

For you mrsK, I'll repeatto you again, what maybe you SOB'd:

Well, mrsK, what I mean is, the demonization of Zimmerman versus the "excusation " of "poor" minority criminals I so often see here. And everywhere else.

Mrsk, you said they should be demonized. But I want to hear you do it. You haven't done it, to these shooters.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

October, I feel exactly as you do about the shooters. Thanks for the explanation. And heck yes I'll demonize those that are guilty of these crimes. Choices, choices, choices. The media did a bang up job of demonizing Zimmerman. I'll wait for the jury to reach a verdict.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"The media did a bang up job of demonizing Zimmerman. "

and they did the same of Trayvon......so your point would be?

Still not sure what the connection is to the terrible violence in Chicago and Zimmerman.

Well maybe I do know , I just don't want to believe that anyone would make a connection to Trayvon, unarmed and in a place he had every right to be, and the criminal activity in Chicago.

There is only one common denominator......


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

And the right wing media did a bang up job of demonizing Martin and idolizing Zimmerman. Including the fake photos of Martin with the tattoos - and Zimmerman guest appearances on FOX.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

There is only one common denominator......

Ding, ding, ding!

I swear, the more I read here, the more depressed I become about this country.


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chase: "and they did the same of Trayvon......so your point would be? "

Oh no, not even close. There was very very little about him.

Jodi: "The sad part is, some actually believe that rhetoric is true..."

Puhleez. Nothing will be done until everyone admits what the real problem is.


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Puhleez. Nothing will be done until everyone admits what the real problem is.

And that would be what? The thing that everyone has to admit is the real problem?


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"There it was again. He could see only one side of it. He was born so, educated so, his veins were full of ancestral blood that was rotten with this sort of unconscious brutality, brought down by inheritance from a long procession of hearts that had each done its share toward poisoning the stream. To imprison these men without proof, and starve their kindred, was no harm, for they were merely peasants and subject to the will and pleasure of their lord, no matter what fearful form it might take; but for these men to break out of unjust captivity was insult and outrage, and a thing not to be countenanced by any conscientious person who knew his duty to his sacred caste."

Mark Twain


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

OM. I know exactly what you mean about nasty comments on threads. I was reading about Teresa Kerry and her serious condition. The filthy nasty things the right wing nuts said about her and her husband...and then of course,Obama. This is the evil that unfortunately permeates our culture.


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" I was reading about Teresa Kerry and her serious condition.The filthy nasty things the right wing nuts said about her..."

Shouldn't read that junk. It does nothing to enrich one and when used in conversation, shows your personality at a disadvantage. Read the nice stuff abot Teresa; there's quite a bit. She's one gracious lady, from what I read.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Something I just read tonight online--Travon Martin, portrayed as innocent kid with Skittles and iced tea may not be the person portrayed by the media and others.

From ABC News:

"The judge's decision comes days after Zimmerman's lawyers made public the contents of Martin's phone, including pictures of marijuana leaves, a .40-caliber hand gun, and a photo that appears to show Martin smoking pot.

The defense also posted online, texts Martin sent about getting into fights and being kicked out of his house by his mother."

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Another fact I've not heard--is that the products that Martin had on him are mixed with Robitussin or other over the counter medications to make a very potent drug referred to as Lean or Purple Lean.

The items are Arizona Watermelon drink and Skittles candy.

Yet--all I've heard is some kid drinking iced tea and eating candy. Now, that may or may not be the truth, but I've read online several sources that in fact it wasn't iced tea, but the Arizona Watermelon drink AND Skittles.

Of course it's not against the law to have those items on you, but the portrayal of Martin as totally helpless and innocent young man aren't all that accurate, if there are photos of him smoking dope, a photo of a gun on his cell phone, references to fighting and being kicked out of the house and these two very specific items known to be used to concoct homemade drugs, on him.

Does it have anything to do with him being shot and not being armed? No.

The jury won't be allowed to hear this, though.
Apparently the prejudicial effect outweighed the probative value according to the judge.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Another fact I've not heard--is that the products that Martin had on him are mixed with Robitussin or other over the counter medications to make a very potent drug referred to as Lean or Purple Lean."

Not a fact at all. Purple Lean has prescription strength cough syrup (with codeine). It does not have skittles or Arizona watermelon drink in it. It is Sprite, with jolly ranchers maybe. That info comes from the Urban Dictionary. It actually says quite forcefully that no one uses straight Robitussin in it.

EDIT - While you are giving us "facts", would yu mind sourcing them? Because I have a feeling that this one is a peach.

This post was edited by frank_il on Tue, Jul 9, 13 at 1:23


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Well, there are numerous sources that describe these ingredients as Lean or Purple Lean, as I said.

Google is your friend.

Regardless of what constitutes a slang term for a concoction for intentional recreational drug, the ingredients are used for such.

Call it Purple Lean, call it Purple Dog, the nomenclature does not matter.

The fact is it wasn't just "iced tea and candy" as some on this forum, and the media, has portrayed Martin. They were specific items known to be used to manufacture a drug to get high. I also did not know about the photos on Martin's phone of a gun, photo of him smoking marijuana, I did not know about his marijuana use, his reference to getting into fights and his reference to being kicked out of the house.

That was the reason for my post--that although I haven't studied this case like some, I am just now finding this out.

That means we are getting slanted information about Martin.


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Oh no, Google is your friend. I only found right-wing sites when I Googled "Trayvon Purple Lean". So, the burden is on you to give me your exact site that you learned these "facts".


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Well, Frank, there is no burden on me.
You no doubt saw the numerous sites I did.

I also read left wing blogs that said exactly what you posted about the Sprite.

So show me a non left wing site that says that these items have never been mixed with Robitussin as a drug and we'll talk.

The fact is, Trayvon Martin died with marijuana in his system.
From what I understand, that marijuana was illegal and that makes him a drug user.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"The fact is, Trayvon Martin died with marijuana in his system.
From what I understand, that marijuana was illegal and that makes him a drug user."

I don't dispute the fact that he was a drug user. I am just telling you that Purple Lean does not have the Watermelon drink in it. It does not have skittles in it, and it does not come from Robitussin. Hell, when I was in the Navy, I tried to get a buzz from a full bottle of Robitussin, and I was unsuccessful.

P.S. The burden of proof lies with the person who made the statement of fact. So, please, give us your source.

EDIT - I don't know what left wing websites that you have looked at, but I have found exactly 0 of them that have said anything about Trayvon and Sprite.

This post was edited by frank_il on Tue, Jul 9, 13 at 3:17


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Must have all been on the South Side of Chicago. Right, Heri? Northern people would never do anything like that.
Hay

Is that just another provocation by you or do wish to address some question to me about the topic of this thread ?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"the demonization of Zimmerman versus the "excusation " of "poor" minority criminals I so often see here. "

October you still have not answered my question. What it is you think that makes a connection between Zimmerman and the Chicago violence,


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

So, if nothing makes people turn to crime... then why do they do it?

Instead of deflecting the question, perhaps answer it would further the conversation.

Or does this thread have an ulterior motive?


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Because you owe me jodik, I remember an interview of a 15 year old boy that killed a german tourist and stole her car. When asked why, he said, she had a car and I didn't...so I took hers. I'm entitled to what I want,


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 9, 13 at 9:14

Nothing will be done until everyone admits what the real problem is.

What is the "real" problem?

Right after Newton many of us, including myself, tried to explain our position on guns because of so much gun violence in urban areas ... and we were shouted down by the "right to bear arms" argument.

If guns are not the problem I ask again, "what is the problem"?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

GUNS!

Englewood and nearby blocks in Chicago has been Drug Central for years. Do we want it 'cleaned up' --, and hence 're-located' to our back yards? Do we know when the violence became fatal to so many people trying to survive there? Take a volatile situation; add guns to the mix; people die. Five hundred last year; on track for four hundred this year. But, you know, they aren't MY friends and relatives... Most Chicagoans will never be within miles of this inner city. (They get their drugs far from there, via a 'middle man'!)

Do we think we would be enduring this Zimmerman trial-as-entertainment, Black-v-White nonsense if Mr. Self-Appointed Protector Zimmerman had not had a gun? (If Florida had not had the 'stand and shoot' law?) Look at the little man going forth to serve and protect, self-appointed, made brave with his gun. He was a hero in his own movie! Would he have even been out there without the gun? Would anyone be dead, absent the gun?

BTW, I know something about Englewood from my DIL's years of teaching there. Watch HBO's "The Wire" for a complete picture of life in that and many other 'inner cities'.

I'm happy to see news reports containing not only the numbers killed by gunfire but also those wounded: 70 last weekend. This is a huge financial drain. Maybe if we involve $$$, more people will care.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Another fact I've not heard--is that the products that Martin had on him are mixed with Robitussin or other over the counter medications to make a very potent drug referred to as Lean or Purple Lean.

The items are Arizona Watermelon drink and Skittles candy.

Yet--all I've heard is some kid drinking iced tea and eating candy. Now, that may or may not be the truth, but I've read online several sources that in fact it wasn't iced tea, but the Arizona Watermelon drink AND Skittles."

That's pretty far fetched as a means of discrediting Trayvon.

Reminds me of a silly expression we'd never get tired of repeating as a kid: "If we had some ham, we could have some ham and eggs. If we had some eggs".

99% of the kids leaving a 7-11 and perhaps as many as 100% of MarkJames' cousins probably fit that profile: Walking out with candy and a soda.

Big deal that he had marijuana in his system. Another statistic that is not the least bit relevant to this case. Pot isn't going to cause much more than a stoned kid aimlessly walking around. If anything it'd make him even less harmful: something the prosecutors should use to their advantage in the trial.

Now, if I had some eggs, I could have some ham and eggs. If I had some ham.

Hay


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

I "owe you"? Would you care to explain that? Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

And I wouldn't necessarily call that a criminal...

The age of 15 is still considered an adolescent, a time when many people make mistakes in their lives, and go through a learning process... one anecdote does not a criminal make... though that's not a typical answer for someone who makes a mistake.

Look at Judge Mathis... a self professed bad boy who admits making many mistakes as a youth. But he learned from those mistakes and turned his life into something quite positive. Yet, as a youth, he would be someone you'd label a criminal.

But we're not necessarily talking about youths who go for a joy ride at the expense of someone else. When it gets to the point at which someone is shot, I'd say crime is a little bit more intense, and the criminals a little bit more practiced and involved in whatever criminal enterprise leads to the shooting.

In today's world, one can't get very far without a high school diploma, and with the state of education today, not to mention all the inner city school closings, how are students supposed to accomplish that? Without that diploma, one can't even get a job flipping burgers at the local Burger King, but one still has to live... so it's often a last resort to sell drugs, or to become a petty thief, or one might join a gang and become involved in their enterprises.

We're living with the results of a world "we" created... meaning society.

I'm not sure how Zimmerman OR race fit into this thread... crime knows no singular race.


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And even more amazing. Chicago has the most stringent gun laws in the country. Let's try...what makes people want to kill other people? What makes them pick up a gun, a knife, a hammer, build a bomb, and treat a life as if it is nothing?


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"Because you owe me jodik,"

I shouldn't speak for Mrs, but I had to read it several times before it dawned on me that what Mrs is saying in response to your question is ...they turn to crime because of a "you owe me" attitude........not that you owe her....


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Let's not go back to discussing how easy it is to get around *local* gun laws. Gang-bangers can zip in and out of no-regs Indiana 'gun shows' in an hour. National gun laws change that. Compare gun deaths in demographic 'sisters' Chicago and Toronto: 500 v 34 in 2012.

Tally deaths in the inner city Before and After this swell of gun ownership in America.The *violence* has been there for decades; it's only gotten this lethal with guns. (They were using knives, hammers, bombs, *whatever* before, mrskun. Their livelihoods are at stake.)

Drugs will be sold *somewhere*, and this is the primary economic engine in some areas of the inner city. Generations grow up in this culture. You can find Seniors who have never been ten blocks from home. Nothing 'better' is expected. My DIL was lucky to find 5% of her junior high pupils living with a parent who cared. Most were fostered -- often for the money. School was often the only safe place and the only source of decent food.

The only idea I've had is boarding schools for kids whose parents or guardians will agree to the rules -- to give some kids a chance to see a way 'out'.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Thank you chase...that was what I meant.

jodik, a public education is available to every kid. We spend more per child on education than any country in the world. In fact, it is a law that a child must attend school at least until the age of 16. Someone has to make a choice to pick up a gun and shoot someone, someone has to make a choice to sell drugs. Life is all about choices. I have no sympathy for that 15 year old boy. He made a choice. He wanted something someone else had, something he didn't want to work for, something that for some reason he felt he was owed. That german tourist will never have choices again.

I have always preached to my kids, if something is worth having, it's worth working for.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"A year after this city drew new attention for soaring gun violence and gang bloodshed, creating a political test for Mayor Rahm Emanuel in President Obama’s hometown, Chicago has witnessed a drop in shootings and crime. Killings this year have dipped to a level not seen since the early 1960s."

But Chisue is correct... crime and violence have always been a part of big city living. If not guns, then with other lethal weapons, and certainly intentions.

A rise in crime is to be expected during a holiday weekend... more people are on vacation, giving thieves more opportunity... and more people are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, which often leads to violence.

But overall...

"So far in 2013, Chicago homicides, which outnumbered slayings in the larger cities of New York and Los Angeles last year, are down 34 percent from the same period in 2012. As of Sunday night, 146 people had been killed in Chicago, the nation’s third-largest city - 76 fewer than in the same stretch in 2012 and 16 fewer than in 2011, a year that was among the lowest for homicides during the same period in 50 years."

Here is a link that might be useful: Chicago Tactics Put Major Dent in Killing Trend


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"So far in 2013, Chicago homicides, which outnumbered slayings in the larger cities of New York and Los Angeles last year, are down 34 percent from the same period in 2012. As of Sunday night, 146 people had been killed in Chicago, the nation’s third-largest city - 76 fewer than in the same stretch in 2012 and 16 fewer than in 2011, a year that was among the lowest for homicides during the same period in 50 years."

No way I would live there again. It's a shame; used to be a great place to grow up. I'm lucky it was for me, early on.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"The only idea I've had is boarding schools for kids whose parents or guardians will agree to the rules -- to give some kids a chance to see a way 'out'."

Yea, kind of like my idea for dormitory living for unwed mothers. No more free individual apartments. Everyone goes there, everyone has a job there - cooking, cleaning, babysitting, laundry, something to contribute. Everyone works, goes to job training, goes to school, etc. If mama does not comply, baby goes to boarding school and she gets the boot out to the street. You would see, in one generation, better schools and less crime.

THE REAL PROBLEM IS: you all know, you just pretend you don't.

It's ok. I'm house shopping. I'm getting out too. I just won't care anymore cause I'll be miles and miles away. I won't care anymore about my taxes being raised and thrown at perpetual poverty. I will quit reading the papers and quit watching TV. I'll become one of those people who just complain that THEY (politicians) should fix it. It's THEIR fault (teachers and cops). No one else has any blame or responsibility.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"I'm getting out too."

I understand. I have really wistful memories of the West Side while I was growing up. I like to block out the riots, the rape of an old woman behind our garage, the men breaking into the house till Mom cocked her shotgun, the vandalism and theft.

"No one else has any blame or responsibility."

That's what really is scary.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

So, the solution is draconian state intervention. If you're pregnant and unmarried, off to a state-run dormitory you go.

Kinda like the Sisters of the Magdalene Order in Ireland? See link.

And if they mis-behave, take away their kids. I mean, there are just oodles of foster parents waiting, amirite? Or maybe they can go to state-run youth homes.

Because every body will tell you how much better kids do when raised by the state instead of a family. Yup, just look at the success stories of Native American / First Nation forced child removal and boarding schools.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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Gosh, and here I'd go at it from another angle... the angle of ensuring the financial burden of the mother isn't too great while she's raising those children, providing a good education for our youth with decent schools, and ensuring there were actually jobs available, manufacturing and otherwise, that paid a living wage within the various precincts of a city through various encouragements.

Helping people so they can help themselves is often necessary. Why there should be such an aversion to offering some of that help, I couldn't say.

State run workhouses and convents or dormitories for "unwed mothers" and whatnot? Really? What's so wrong with having children while one isn't married? How is the marriage contract the end all to end all? How does that guarantee anything?

Why do I get the feeling some people would rather regress than progress?


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I blame it all on air conditioning. Used to be everyone was sitting on the porch. The kids were all playing outside. If your mom didn't see you doing it, someone else's mom sure did...and your mom knew about it before you got home. And you caught it from mom because you embarrassed her in front of her neighbors. You absolutely knew right from wrong. But doubt we'll give up the AC.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

elvis said:
I understand. I have really wistful memories of the West Side while I was growing up. I like to block out the riots, the rape of an old woman behind our garage, the men breaking into the house till Mom cocked her shotgun, the vandalism and theft.

You developed a fear of African Americans or perhaps inherited that from your parents as a result of the White Flight from Austin 40-50 years ago. That is unfortunate but choosing to spread those old perceptions and memories by recounting anecdotes of old woman being raped and burglarized (by, one would assume, young black thugs) is not helpful.

As far as not wanting to go back "there" that is also not helpful. You mean to the area where White Flight left segregated neighborhoods, aging homes, underfunded schools, shuttered factories and boarded up businesses ? No , white people used those neighborhoods,sent their kids to school there and worked there. Now that it is a ghetto who would want to live there including the low income people that live there now?

I think you should explain your comments pertaining to not wanting to return to Chicago because you no longer know this City and could not appreciate it when you were a child. The area where you lived in (Austin) was a changing neighborhood 40 years ago and quickly turned into a segregated, crumbling low income area. When you say I would not return "there" you mean to the ghetto, not to Chicago or to the Chicago area. The fact is Chicago has a low income segregated ghetto area which is dangerous, but 95% or more of the combined City and Metro area is nothing like your old Austin neighborhood.


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"What's so wrong with having children while one isn't married?"

Nothing. If you can afford to take care of them.
Everything if you don't have a dime.

Well, yes, take the kids. The mother's have a choice, if they don't prevent the pregnancy, they can live in the dorm and learn a skill or get education. Then they can support the kid. It's not "lock em up and throw away the key".

"Gosh, and here I'd go at it from another angle... the angle of ensuring the financial burden of the mother isn't too great while she's raising those children, providing a good education for our youth with decent schools, and ensuring there were actually jobs available, manufacturing and otherwise, that paid a living wage within the various precincts of a city through various encouragements."

Been doin this for generations. Doesn't work. The schools were good. They didn't go bad because of teachers. Like I have said before, if I lived a 15-20 min bus ride from the loop I would have a job - probably two jobs. There are jobs. You can't start at the top though. You can forget the living wage thing until after you've been working a while. That's why HS and college kids should get jobs.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

You developed a fear of African Americans or perhaps inherited that from your parents as a result of the White Flight from Austin 40-50 years ago.

How on earth did you gleen from Elvis' comment that the crimes were committed by African Americans?

In the neighborhood I grew up in
-a shot up body was found stuffed under a car.
-My neighbor's house was robbed and another neighbor had seen some guy sitting on her porch, smoking, with a portable TV next to him but didn't know the guy had just stolen it - thought it was probably a repair job being returned.
-There was a huge drug bust - some house said to be a major distributor of meth along the east coast.
-Some guy I knew from elementary school was decapitated for - nobody really knew. They thought he might have been stealing from his drug lord.

Guess what, heri - all those crimes had been committed by European Americans - aka white people!!

Maybe you're the only one who is seeing crimes being committed only by African Americans. When I read Elvis' comment, I had no race in mind. In my childhood neighborhood, you could count on the crimes being committed by whites.


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Well, now I know where stereotypes come from.


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This isn't the first time Heri has tried to tell me about the old neighborhood. She's even said I don't remember it correctly. I'm pretty sure I didn't go to school with her.
;-)

Whatever.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

demifloyd added: Well, now I know where stereotypes come from.

Yes you certainly do. They come from white liberals and African Americans, the people whowant to place their jack boot on the throat of the rest of America.

cait said:
How on earth did you gleen from Elvis' comment that the crimes were committed by African Americans?

Actually I did not gleen racial animus from one comment but from a litany of comments over an extended period of time. What emerges is a picture of a fearful young teenager whose family was one of the last to flea a rapidly changing neighborhood. The poster has related numerous stories of how the black panthers beat up students, how the blacks forced his family to leave that neighborhood, and how his mother remained embittered by this experience as well as the diminution of their home's value. Now these latest anecdotes of crime (his mother cocking a gun to ward off burglars, a rape in back of his garage) are just over the top, but to suggest they do not involve the exact same neighborhood and the black on white crime that has been related in the past is being beyond incredulous.

It is sad how some people form opinions predicated on strong emotions and fear early in life and are saddled with those emotions throughout their lives. They then continue to build walls and form defense mechanisms around them, often seeking to rationalize and justify racial fears. Often it flips into the pseudo-intellectual realm of reverse racism or equating racism within the black community (which does exist) with what minority African Americans have faced for generations and still experience every day.

It is difficult for one to challenge the fears that one has acquired at an early age even with the benefit of the education and experience we acquire as we grow older. I understand that, but I try to challenge people to continue to look inside themselves and to attempt to understand when and how they formulated their opinions about race. Did they accept the views that their parents had? Did they experience fear or were they simply taught to fear blacks?

Here a poster has, numerously described a traumatic upheaval of the neighborhood around him as he was a young teenager, beatings of students in his school by groups of black panther thugs, and rape and burglary just outside his door. Then white flight from a crumbling segregated neighborhood and a sense of relief, now even coupled with a repeated assurance to never return.
It's just a sad story and a sad way to grow up. Worse yet is how fear gets engrained and reinforced through the years and becomes impenetrable. Elvis has left the City and I am sorry he took some awful lessons with him based on such terrifying personal experiences.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 1:31


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"It is sad how some people form opinions predicated on strong emotions and fear early in life and are saddled with those emotions throughout their lives. They then continue to build walls and form defense mechanisms around them, often seeking to rationalize and justify racial fears."

You're right heri, it is sad. But most fears are rational. Personal safety is also instinct, one that humans still have. I think it is a combination of experience and instinct.

"Often it flips into the pseudo-intellectual realm of reverse racism or equating racism within the black community (which does exist) with what minority African Americans have faced for generations and still experience every day."

Thank you for admitting that.

So heri, what do you think about all these thugs shooting all these innocent people in Chicago?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Thank you for admitting that.
Not sure what part of my statement that you are thanking me for, but OK.

So heri, what do you think about all these thugs shooting all these innocent people in Chicago?

I don't know if they are all "thug" shootings but certainly they include gang related shootings, family disputes, and some alcohol or drug fueled rage that gets taken to the next level.
What do I think about it? First it is almost exclusively black on black or Latino on Latino crime so it has nothing to do with racism. However, it does have to do with the proliferation of guns and drugs in the inner City and various social and socio-economic issues that exist in those unsafe, run down old neighborhoods.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"However, it does have to do with the proliferation of guns and drugs in the inner City and various social and socio-economic issues that exist in those unsafe, run down old neighborhoods."

Uh huh. Some real down and dirty demonizing there.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Actually I did not gleen racial animus from one comment but from a litany of comments over an extended period of time."

I think this needs to be repeated.

-Ron-


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Actually I did not gleen racial animus from one comment but from a litany of comments over an extended period of time. What emerges is a picture of a fearful young teenager whose family was one of the last to flea a rapidly changing neighborhood. The poster has related numerous stories of how the black panthers beat up students, how the blacks forced his family to leave that neighborhood, and how his mother remained embittered by this experience as well as the diminution of their home's value."

It wasn't the blacks that forced them out, it was the crime. The violent crime. We're not talking pick pockets here.

I have had black neighbors for almost 10 years. Very nice people. Guess where they moved from? Englewood. Got a problem with that Heri? Nah. Didn't think so.

"Now these latest anecdotes of crime (his mother cocking a gun to ward off burglars, a rape in back of his garage) are just over the top, but to suggest they do not involve the exact same neighborhood and the black on white crime that has been related in the past is being beyond incredulous."

You are right heri, it is over the top. Time to move. You did. You living in Watts? No. Compton? No.

Yea, you just sit there and judge anyone who else who doesn't stay. Keep on.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

I choose to respond to reasoned, logical, well thought out points of contention that provide a reason for discussion, especially when they are directed at me. Conversely I tend to ignore or "stroll on by" posts that are either emotional, over-simplistic, juvenile, off the cuff, petty, picayune, or that I deem are otherwise unworthy of a response.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sat, Jul 13, 13 at 7:52


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

demifloyd said:
I did not know about his marijuana use, his reference to getting into fights and his reference to being kicked out of the house.

Did you know that Zimmerman was on prescription Adderall?
Why was he prescribed that, do you now?
We know what he was prescribed now, but we don't know how much he was actually taking when he killed Trayvon
. Do you know the known side effects of Adderall and what happens to those who come off it? I posted a few links in my prior posts on this topic.

Is the reason that Zimmerman refused medical treatment at a hospital after the incident have anything to do with his concern that they would have found how much of that drug (and possibly others) that he had in his system?
Is his tremendous weight gain the result of coming off an Adderall addiction?
Have you ever smoked marijuana and if not, do you know whether the use of that drug tends to make a person more aggressive or more passive? Do you know how long traces of THC remain in ones blood after they have smoked a joint?


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

One doesn't even need to ingest marijuana to have it show up in the bloodstream... just being in the same room or in close proximity to others that are smoking can cause traces to show up.

But even so... passivity is the common result of marijuana ingestion... while Adderall is a prescription drug commonly used to treat ADD, and comes with a long list of dangerous side effects. It's a pharmaceutical strength amphetamine, for all intents and purposes... and can cause some very dangerous effects if used improperly or if the drug is not compatible with the patient's system.

However... Trayvon's use of marijuana is completely inconsequential to the case.

But weren't we talking about crime committed in Chicago over the 4th of July holiday weekend? Crime that would naturally rise BECAUSE it was a holiday weekend. More theft would occur because more people would be on vacation... and the use of alcohol and drugs would increase because it was holiday weekend... which would mean that altercations would increase because of the presence of alcohol and drugs... and because it was a holiday weekend.

Never mind the fact that shootings have actually decreased within the city of Chicago... article with stats posted above...


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"But even so... passivity is the common result of marijuana ingestion..."

Also paranoia.

"...Marijuana can impair thinking, memory and learning for weeks after use. It produces a range of psychological and physical effects that can be unpredictable at times. It can relieve pain, control nausea and increase appetite. Marijuana typically gives a high, or feeling of well being, which is why it abused. But marijuana can also cause acute psychosis, or a temporary break with reality. Marijuana-induced psychosis happens more often in new users or in people prone to mental illness.

Marijuana can cause short-term memory and learning problems, dry mouth, impaired motor skills and red eyes. Within minutes after smoking marijuana, the drug increases the user's heart rate. Heart rates can double in some cases, which is a risk for people with certain heart conditions. Some people may feel relaxed after using marijuana; others may develop anxiety and paranoia. A person's reaction to the drug partly depends on the individual, the strength of the marijuana used and whether the person ate or smoked the drug."

Here is a link that might be useful: I Feel Like Everyone is Staring at me


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Never mind the fact that shootings have actually decreased within the city of Chicago... article with stats posted above"

Hip hip hooray. We are all celebrating here in Chicago. Wow, a hundred or two less than last year at this time. Woo hoo!

I knew none of you woud demonize these gang banger shooters. Gee, I just can't imagine why???????????


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Take a good look at the stats listed below for the year 2011... and then tell me how violent Chicago is compared to other cities... and then look at Chicago's population compared to those other cities...

Looks like Chicago isn't as bad as we keep hoping it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: United States cities by crime rate


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

"Is the reason that Zimmerman refused medical treatment at a hospital after the incident have anything to do with his concern that they would have found how much of that drug (and possibly others) that he had in his system"

Heri, thank you. That's the first time any of this Zimmerman stupidity has made sense. I could not figure out why a man so "injured" (read dripping sarcasm) would refuse treatment. I kept thinking if it was dang awful, why not get treatment? Not that it is an excuse, but golly does it explain.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

How can we demonize a portion of society and what happens within it that WE created through political policy? Look at the larger picture... don't just look at the small picture of one city and its crime rate within a black neighborhood.

Why does any city have these issues? The answers are in the larger pictures.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

jodi says:

"It wasn't me... I've been home all week..."

"Looks like Chicago isn't as bad as we keep hoping it is".

"Crime that would naturally rise BECAUSE it was a holiday weekend."

"A rise in crime is to be expected during a holiday weekend... more people are on vacation, giving thieves more opportunity... and more people are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, which often leads to violence. "

"Unfortunately, a lot of crime ends in violence... it's the nature of the "business".

ROFL.

You kill me. Excuses excuses excuses excuses. You've got a milliion of them, don't you.

Thanks for all the laughs jodik.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

  • Posted by brute Florida 9B (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 15:08

October17, it is rather fun to come here and bait the hardcore Leftists, isn't it? ;-)
They just keep clinging to their dream that the world will eventually turn into what they want it to, no matter how often reality butts into the picture.
I can see why Pat Buchanan is always smiling.
It's fun!


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

Pat Buchanan smiling? That's a grimace from all his years of sphincter clenching.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

I see none of the links have been opened and none of the article read... as usual.


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

  • Posted by brute Florida 9B (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 16:28

Heck, why not throw another link on the pile?

Here is a link that might be useful: http://whitegirlbleedalot.com/


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

I don't think of it as baiting. And I don't mean it as baiting.

It's just easy to poke holes in some posters' convoluted excuse making. (I just can't call it reasoning. Cause it's not. It's excusing themselves and blaming others.)


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RE: Chicago Holiday Crime

The key to this entire thread is in the second word of the title. It was a holiday.


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