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Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Posted by brushworks Zone5-Ohio (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 19, 13 at 9:35

He's willingly and fervently participating in the destruction of the environment you love.

The rules were written by the drilling industry and will be streamlined into effect by a new intergovernmental task force, established by the president, to promote fracking.

What will you do? How will you protest your friend's disgraceful promotion of fracking?

Please let me know what action, if any, you plan to take.

Here is a link that might be useful: Are you really comitted to environmental conservation?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Im going to bite Brush, even though this was specifically addressed to another - it being a public forum I dont believe Im committing a faux pas by participating in this thread.

No liberal on this board which Im aware of has considered the candidate we voted for to be perfect. I do believe that every person or nearly every person who did vote for this candidate has discussed his (in their perceptions) general or very specific failings over the years which left them disappointed, and they said so. I certainly have and pretty early after he won the first election, along with other decisions he made since then.
However, each did vote frr him rather than voting for the alternative - in each election - because they, along with the majority of voters, felt that Obama was the better choice.
Like a spouse, when settling on the candidate, flaws came out which werent ( or perhaps were in some cases) apparent during the courtship. However, after the courtship was over and the "marriage" was in its second phase and the majority had to decide if the flaws were large enough to divorce, the majority decided that when looking over the big picture, Obama had done far more good than not - much like any spouse in a successful marriage is looked at - because those who seek perfection must find that same perfection in themselves before complaining about the lack of existence in others. Those looking for perfection will not only be unfair to others but will be endlessly disappointed and perhaps even choose not to vote for anyone at all( while finding fault with everyone) rather than settle on the candidate who one feels can do more good than harm.
In the Bush years, people choose unwisely - not so much their fault during his first run. People hoped that apple didnt fall far from the strong tree. It is clear that the majority in this country isnt always wise or even honorable in it's mindset and choices. But, in Obamas case, clearly he has done more good than harm, unlike the choice in the Bush administration. So sometimes we manage to get it right. I think we also got it right with our choice in Bush Sr. But not Bush jr - that was disastrous choice for and to this country, a price which will be paid for for at least a generation. The dead multi dead cannot come back to life, the limbs cannot be regrown, the impact upon all touched cannot be counted for that number stretches into infinity.
But, then another came along after the damage had been done and has done an outstanding job of cleaning up the mess left behind that can be addressed and repaired by a single man.
All, despite conservative voters who positively prayed for his failure, thus proving them right. Being right as a more important state than repair. They are very unhappy, still. They were, in the big and much of the small picture, proved absolutely wrong. We who voted for Obama are generally still happy with our choice because of his performance. But considering the alternative offered once again, there was no choice because...well....shoulda, woulda, coulda comes to mind if you know what I mean!

Surely if your carefully chosen companion has ended up with so.e flaws but otherwise has greatly enhanced your life, you would not throw her out or regret your choice due to her failures you didnt expect her to have during your courtship? Nor her, you?
I rather doubt Esh will un-friend Obama at this point, although surely either Esh will choose to speak for herself or pass on by.

Brush, how would you evaluate the performances of the candidates you voted for or those you voted for but lost in say, the past 4 presidential election cycles?
Surely this is a fair question Brush. You have asked and have been responded to many, many similar sorts of questions. Even if you didnt like the answers, you were always given the courtesy of an answer offered as truthfully as possible as far as I know.
It strikes me as fair to ask of you a response to one of a similar nature also.
Thanks -


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p.s. after review

I apologize Brush, for the wordiness and length of my reply - and thanke you else anyone else to cared to finish it.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Most eloquent, Mylab... thank you.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I think we might have had a post earlier about who you would have speaking for you .
This goes to show.......one liberal is speaking for all liberals......and I'm sure as usual.....they will all be in accord.
Not meaning to be smart....I just find most liberals speak
for each other alot.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Are you insane? Liberals have one person that speaks for them? Good God, you said that on this board Demi speaks for you.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama


This goes to show.......one liberal is speaking for all liberals......and I'm sure as usual.....they will all be in accord.
I just find most liberals speak for each other alot.

I think the same could be said for the conservatives on this board. We see you defend Nik, Demi, Elvis, Mrsk et al all the time regarding their posts and opinions and they yours.

So far, In this case, there is nothing to substantiate that since we have only seen 1 poster so you seem to jumping to conclusions and making assumptions based on what you think instead of making an accurate observation based on what has actually happened. You may be right but wouldn't you be better served waiting for it it to happen instead of posting simply to provoke? Unless of course that is what your intentions are. Since you added nothing else to the thread about the topic it makes one think that is the case.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

This continued Obama bashing is for the most part disingenuous and hypocritical.

So one who has been opposed to Unions and Obamacare can gleefully post a story about Unions criticizing aspects of Obamacare.

One can be opposed Obama's use of drones even though they had no problem with Bush starting a War in Iraq, his shock and awe bombing, and the killing tens of thousands.

One can oppose fracking for natural gas but be silent on the Keystone XL pipeline and harvesting tar sand oil, the most environmentally unfriendly fossil fuel.

One can pretend to be pro-environment but be against electric and hybrid autos.

It all boils down to a half-baked hatred for President Obama and way too much Fox News.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 5:15


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

What in the world are you talking about? How do you figure one liberal is speaking for all? Where do you see that?

"No liberal on this board which Im aware of has considered the candidate we voted for to be perfect. I do believe that every person or nearly every person who did vote for this candidate has discussed his (in their perceptions) general or very specific failings over the years which left them disappointed, and they said so..."

I would agree with Mylab's statement, though I would word it in entirely different terminology. Is that what is being so wrongfully equated with one liberal speaking for all? That is very disingenuous, and I would hardly equate it to any other thread being discussed.

I can't imagine where an agreement regarding the truth equals a designated speaker.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Mylab,

Thanks for a constructive reply.

The main reason I posted this thread on environment is because like Esh, I too am concerned about the damages we cause, and Esh has posted that one of his most important causes in life is environmental preservation. I'd like to hear his opinion on the White House giving in to fracking and the oil industry as a whole.

In my past I have been disappointed by most who got my vote. To be clear about GWB, I have called out for investigation and prosecution because of his assault on Iraq. That call has been made here. Of course I realize that this administration will not prosecute because it is also involved in war crimes and extrajudicial killings.

Yes, the president has accomplished small things, but he has not brought about the change or provided the hope that his supporters were promised. I was his supporter, so I can say that. Unfortunately for us and the world, the president has been controlled (willingly)by the power of corporate America and his main goal is to keep them happy.

As for a reply to Heri, there is none because all of his attacks are distorted; lies, and not worth a reply. There are a few here like Heri who are so frustrated with the president's performance that the only responses they have are lies and distortions. To me, Heri is a man recovering from racism.

Patiently awaiting Esh's response.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I find the liberals on this forum express different opinions about many things and likewise similar opinions on others. It should come as no surprise to anyone that like minded people, more often than not, express like minded opinions.

However, I would disagree that any one liberal speaks for any other liberal....we're too personally engaged in what we think for that.

I, like Frank, find it ironic that you would state here that one liberal is speaking for all liberals when you yourself said Demi speaks for you. Actually I don't find it ironical, I find it hysterical !!!


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

What a cool thread. Except for one remark.

I have never totally supported every single decision the president I voted for made. Of course. But if anything ever gets done in Washington, there must be compromise and trades. Sucks but true.

In a healthy government, the opposition is well represented in Congress in order to ensure the above. It has only been in recent years that it has crippled the government and we - the electorate - suffer.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I don't think we'll ever elect a President that everyone is happy with... and I am of the opinion that Obama isn't exactly happy having to go along with some of the decisions made...

But then, he isn't a liberal.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Good point, jodik. A number of us have been making that point for a number of years now, but ingenuous opponents of the President like to go into a mock stage of stunned disbelief and horror when the President shows, once again (as we always claimed) that he is not, nor has never been, a liberal.

And as we have said many times before, he still beats the socks off what the alternative would have been, so this voter, at least, has no regrets about supporting my imperfect Democratic president.

Kate


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I believe that last sentence of Jodi's is an important one. Anyone who was old enough to vote in, say, Carter's election would know that a true liberal (for which I certainly am not) is not how anyone who understands the term could qualify Obama as being. He is a democrat and ran on that ticket, I have voted for a Presidential democrat three times since I was old enough to vote- being the last three Presidential elections. But neither one of us are liberals.

My personal belief ( and many would argue this point with me and have some excellent points) is that the Democratic party is much stronger and more able to serve more Americans precisely because there no longer seems to be a majority strong true liberal bent within the party. There are now just enough powerful, true liberals within the party to keep the party true to its origins while representing a far larger number of Americans well but Obama - and I believe many of the current voters are far more centrist than they are liberals.

This is why I can easily and comfortably vote the way I think I will probably have tofor several more Presidential elections, even if Im not fond of the democratic choice - due to the party moving closer to the rational center.
And all the while, the GOP moves itself ever further away from where it once was. The further away either party moves from the center, the more radical it becomes and the less it is able to represent the needs of the majority.
All this of course being my perception and opinion.....

Brush, I would disagree with a lot within your statement but you stated your points very well - its now time for me to step back and let Esh or others have the floor and the thread, there would be a lot of worthy thoughts than can come from all parties.

But I enjoyed that we were able to have a respectful though differing point of view and you reminded me about a few points regarding your ideas and choices that I had forgotten. If you recall, I used to be one of your most vocal supporters while your son was out of country and in the war.
I hope you enjoyed your vaca, it sounded like a wonderful kind to go on - and maybe that is where Esh is, she certainly deserves it - she and Elly work in such a very, very difficult type of profession, but one of the more honorable professions there are in this country imo- I dont think it is one I would do well in because of its difficulty with so few resources to work with while such great need continues to exist -extraordinary numbers in such trouble existing especially since the time of the country's dire financial situation free falling at the end of the Bush administration. I dont know how they do it.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

As for a reply to Heri, there is none because all of his attacks are distorted; lies, and not worth a reply.

Which is a reply, but that was not enough.

There are a few here like Heri who are so frustrated with the president's performance that the only responses they have are lies and distortions.

I'm not sure of the other posters here that you have alluded to but I doubt anyone will "unfriend Obama" at your behest.

Yes, the president has accomplished small things, but he has not brought about the change or provided the hope that his supporters were promised. I was his supporter, so I can say that.

No, you have never been a supporter of Obama since he ran for President. The idea that President Obama could make radical changes despite Republicans so opposed to him and so full of hatred for the man is ridiculous. Despite the obstruction, he has had major accomplishments and unlike Bush, he has remained vigilant in protecting our country.

To me, Heri is a man recovering from racism.

omg, you are so clever, so funny.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 11:43


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Since I worked for and supported Obama in the last two elections, I most fervently support him. Am I happy with 100% of things he's done? No, but I still think he's a good president who far far exceeds the dope we had before him. CW, are you a comedian now? Most liberals speak for others? Are you kidding me? Demi, Elvis, Nik, mrsK etc ..literally JUMP when a so called lib posts anything positive about Obama or the administration. The three musketeers are always in unison


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Patiently awaiting Esh's response.

Why should Esh be required to respond to this? It seems to have been posted to provoke and stir the pot. She doesn;'t owe an explanation or to defend her position to anyone unless she feels like it. The op makes it seem as if you have a bone to pick by singling her out so I wouldn't be surprised if she scrolls on by to not get caught up in the muck.

Contrary to what some claim I have seem few on here that agree with Obama 100% and have said so. Because one disagrees with one, two or several of his decisions or policies doesn't mean you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and write him off completely.. There were few viable options this election or the previous one.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

Yes, I said Demi could speak for me. I usually agree with her 99.9 % of the time.
But she doesn't. Never has she jumped in to answer any
question that was directed to me. Not that first time has any conservative on this forum ever presumed to know .
Yes, there are obviously three factions on this forum, the
liberals making up the largest group.
It is also very obvious that liberals speak for each other
because most (not all) but most run in a pack .
Since I am on the other side of the fence......I see with a different perspective and in my op.......I have seen liberals jump in too many times to count and answer for the other.
Demi, elvis,nik, mrkj have never answered for me.
There is a difference in saying someone (Demi) could speak for you and someone actually answering for you.

Lets see how many of you can discern the difference.
Conservatives don't do it. We are too polite.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I was out of town at a conference and just got back this afternoon. Will take a look at this later and respond.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 2:11

"We are too polite"

And it sure looks like it!


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

First of all, Obama is not my "friend". He is an elected official that I voted for based on choices presented to me. In my opinion the "package" that he presented as a candidate was better than the other person's package. I never said I agreed with all of his positions but the choice was the better of the two.

I do not agree with the positions he has taken in regards to fracking and some of the other in-ground energy extraction. I do believe that investment in solar and wind energy is the direction we should be taking.

Have I expressed my opinion/disappointment to "him" in regards to this? Yes I have. Will I do it again before he leaves office? Probably so. I sign a number of petitions and donate money to causes that support my views in hope that these actions help move the causes forward. I also continue to vote for lower level candidates (Senators, Congressmen, etc.) that I hope will bring my message to the state and national discussion. While Obama has very strong powers, it still "takes a village" sometimes to get the message right.

As to people "speaking for me", I saw no indication that anyone was speaking FOR me, merely offering their own comments. This topic (forsaking support for Obama based on a single thing he does) as well as unconditional support for anything and everything he does comes up quite a bit. Those who thought that liberals "worshiped" Obama as some type of demi-god have always been mistaken.

People like me, lily, mylab, epi, nancy and many others have said this numerous times but some people choose to misremember that.

Back to the original topic. I don't agree with everything Obama has done in regards to the environment at all. He is disappointing in that regard. However, I do believe that his actions as president so far are in general kinder to the environment than what would have happened if a Republican president had been in place.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

There are people on this forum who do not understand that we "liberals" are not knee-jerk ideologues, and are not expected to be, we make up our own mind. The OP apparently doesn't understand that.

The GOP, on the other hand, insists that conservatives march in lock step or get out of their parade.

We "liberals" are free to think for ourselves, and because of that freedom, we are liberals. And...........we don't have to agree with the President, or anyone, on everything, or even on anything. And we don't speak for each other, either.

There are plenty of actions in this administration that I, personally, don't agree with, and there are plenty that I whole-hardheartedly support. Why, there were even things during the Cheney/Bush reign that I supported.

But I think that free thinking is just too "liberal" an idea for some people to grasp. I suspect conservatives are conservative because they don't want, or like, to think for themselves. It's just too scary for many people.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

At the risk of having you labeled 'designated speaker', Mom, I would agree with your statements.

It seems much more like liberals march singular in their own parades, and while we tend to agree on some things, we definitely do not march in step, nor do we always agree on everything.

In my opinion, Obama was a far cry better than the other proffered candidate, though still not in line with what I really wanted. There hasn't been a Presidential candidate that perfectly echoes everything I'd like to see a President stand for. Not yet, anyway.

I disagree with Obama on a lot of things... but conservatives don't seem to remember that Obama is not a liberal... he leans toward the right, though not that far.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

mom, you are accusing conservatives of doing just what you bristle at being accused of yourself. No one walks in lock step to any ideologue. I myself am fiscally conservative but socially liberal. I'm quite certain that is not true of all conservatives. I heard a liberal last night claim that his party had created generational welfare. I don't think all liberals believe that. So, though we may speak for one another on certain issues, none of us, either liberal or conservative are in lock step on all issues.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 11:17

Some "conservatives" on this forum are always (yes, I'll use that word) posting outrage de jour topics taken straight from Faux News, or their morning Tea Party email, or one of the radio screamers. And their supporting texts are from the same sources.

Conservatives need to step away from these sources and post their own thoughts so they, too, can say they think for themselves.

Conservatives, in the media, and some on this forum, have condemned so many conservative moderates as RINO's because they dare to step out of line and offer pragmatic solutions and gasp! compromise on important issues.

I don't think I'm off the mark in saying that conservative thought is monolithic and unbending, and unforgiving of anyone who attempts to break the monolith.

Fortunately, that GOP will make itself irrelevant to the middle, which many of us here, while accused of being on the right or the left, are actually part of.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

mrskjun said:
I myself am fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

With so many issues that involve both social and fiscal issues, that is mostly a meaningless designation. For example, are welfare, healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid social issues or fiscal issues? Does gun legislation that requires hiring more Police on the streets (as has been done recently in Chicago) present a fiscal or a social issue? How about public schools versus vouchers? What about taxation involving cigarettes,liquor and Obamacare?
No need to answer these rhetorical questions, but I hope you get my point.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

I agree with the Obama administration's efforts to regulate fracking for natural gas. It is critical that our government regulate the oil companies and closely monitor wells to ensure that methane gas is not escaping from wells. Republicans are against the Fed and all government regulation, especially when they can attribute it to President Obama or in this case the Obama administration. The idea that imposing regulations is worse than no regulations whatsoever is absurd.

In editorials criticizing government for not restricting fracking for natural gas, little or no mention is usually made about Canadian tar sand oil. Why would that be? Consider that tar sand oil, the dirtiest fossil fuel, is refined for the gasoline that most of our autos here in the Midwest run on.

So, we can change that over time by replacing gasoline powered autos with with electric autos, and simultaneously seeking cleaner and more environmentally responsible technologies to generate electricity.

Fracking for Natural gas has environmental consequences but on the whole, not as severe as mining for tar sand oil whether above or below ground. That is why natural gas is viewed by many including those in the Obama administration (and myself) as a necessary evil and a stepping stone to the day when we can generate most of our power from renewable sources of energy.

Here is a link that might be useful: Unfriend gasoline

This post was edited by heri_cles on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 3:06


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

So, though we may speak for one another on certain issues, none of us, either liberal or conservative are in lock step on all issues

Well, you should tell CW that. She seems to believe otherwise,

We are too polite.

CW, it is ironic that you should judge others since what you have posted on this thread so far is the antithesis of politeness. Polite people, don't hijack a thread solely to criticize or demean others and continue to do so while adding nothing to the topic being discussed.

We can find impolite and polite people with varying political beliefs. They are all just people and no one set is more perfect than any others contrary to your statement. That is just in your own mind but not reality.

Esh, I didn't understand the "unfriend" comment. He is the President not a buddy on Facebook,

Those who thought that liberals "worshiped" Obama as some type of demi-god have always been mistaken.

It apparently doesn't matter how many times that fact is repeated and is supported in countless posts, the same thing gets repeated ad nauseum and the reality is ignored.


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RE: Esh, why you should un-friend Obama

mrskjun said:
I myself am fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

Does Billy Graham inform that socially liberal viewpoint?


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