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A rant for people that judge others.

Posted by don_socal socal (My Page) on
Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 9:53

I read this and it brought to mind how what you see is not always the way you interpret it. Some will never know about the people that are trying to maintain their dignity in a world that is getting harder to deal with by the day.

Here is a link that might be useful: Your Lack Of Insight And Compassion Make You Ugly


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

From the link: "
Hey, people on welfare, conservatives would like you to know the rules. So here they are:"

Tht first line is a real time-saver.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

BAsed on Elvis's comment, I would say .......

"Your Lack Of Insight And Compassion Make You Ugly"

~Ann


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

The author is guilty of stereotyping conservatives. IMHO, stereotyping makes one ugly and severely limits the writer's impact.

I do not believe that all or even most conservatives would support what he writes given those circumstances.

If you truly believe that all conservatives believe that dribble, then you are just as guilty of stereotyping and are just as ugly as the writer is.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I apply it as as noted in the title of the thread not limited to one side or the other of the political divide.

edited after a bit more thought.

This post was edited by don_socal on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 10:40


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Avoiding the issues raised in the article linked by don does not change the reality that there are many people, and the majority of them are conservatives, who think that poor people or people in need are moochers and takers. I have read too many posts on this forum that rail against people in need as if they are moral slackers to believe that the points made in the article are without considerable merit.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Thank you, Don...

I laughed when I read it... because it rings so true. It shows exactly the sort of comments I've come to expect from ill-informed members of our society regarding their interpretation of public assistance recipients. This author says it so much better than I ever could.

How shameful that a person even has to think along those lines in response to a horrible stereotype and its perpetuation.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

One more thing: while I agree with much of what the author says, I think she would be wise to avoid the charge of demagoguery when denouncing demagoguery.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Every one judges others whether they are unlike them or not. It's our nature and exists in a variety of ways. Judging isn't always a negative emotion or have a negative connotation attached to it but it does exist.

Sometimes we judge others poorly - like in the linked article - and may not even know why. It could be our own upbringing, background, experiences, sensibilities, etc. and am I always proud of how I may have judged someone - not a chance - because I don;t know their upbringing or experiences and I do have to remember that.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Don: "I apply it as as noted in the title of the thread not limited to one side or the other of the political divide.
edited after a bit more thought."

Excellent edit, Don. Thanks for doing that :-)


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

But Don, this is the other end of the judgement spectrum. Isn't it? Not everyone on welfare is like this any more than no one is like this. (((the world who suffers))) one individual at a time.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We know many on numerous welfare benefits that are judgmental and/or jealous of others on numerous welfare benefits that receive more and/or better benefits than they receive, or qualify for.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Rob, many in our society are only one lost paycheck away from pushing a shopping cart. Even the well off can end up in this situation with just a few bad choices and losses. I read this and thought how well it described the possibility of anyone even those on this forum that could be in the position the writer is in given the political, economic condition of this country.

Stop and talk to a few of the people you see living this life and you will learn. None are immune except the ridiculously wealthy. That is the goal they have been striving for. So those that are critical take note, you could be there too.


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Oh, I totally agree with your statement and first paragraph. I am one of those, a paycheck away kind of people! Shortly to be a two paychecks away kinda gal. I'm ramping up now that I'm not about to go under. It's just that extremes are rarely true. Not everyone is like that written in the link. We must be balanced and keep our eyes on the reality. It loses credibility to say all are where they are and live like that for those reasons. I wouldn't doubt 95% or even higher truly live that way, but it's really not everyone.

It smacks of reality when someone smuggly tells me they traded their stamps for cash to get expensive electronics. When they smile that cheshire grin, like they are proud of scamming, I just want to throttle them. I remember just plain doing without and wishing I could afford a cool cell phone. Or cable. Or something more than a whole chicken for a week. I got tired of chicken. I really wanted more. Now I can have more, but it hasn't always been that way. Wants just didn't get met. Needs did. I know more than one person like that too. It's not anecdotal. Any more than it's "everyone" who are scamming. Just keeping us real here, my dear friend.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Stamps? I don't believe actual food stamps have been a part of public assistance for several years, now. Everything is done via a reload-able debit card, as far as I'm aware... and the allotted amount per person is not all that kind or generous... if that's what you're talking about.

To those I know that receive assistance, that food allotment is like gold, and they'd never trade it for anything... except groceries.

I wonder who all these fraudulent people are... because I've never met anyone who didn't fully appreciate the help they got.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

They haven't had paper stamps for years, so to convert benefits to cash/barter welfare recipients shop for others that pay them in cash/barter and/or let others use their card.

Some stores will actually allow shoppers to use multiple EBT cards as long as they know the PIN number.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

All states were required to switch to the EBT system in 1996.

There's always someone who's going to sell his EBT card, then put in a claim for a replacement. You can only do that so many times now before you get snagged. I doubt its rampant, but it does happen. Every once in a while there's an item in the paper regarding this - the latest being the every other day raid on our head shop. The owner is always caught with EBT cards.


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We've never known anyone that's sold an EBT card, however we known many that loan them to others, or buy groceries for others then get paid in cash barter.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Just because you've never known anyone doesn't bring it out of the realm of happenstances. Kind of surprises me though, you being king of the realm and all. There's gotta be an unemployed, unskilled, untoned, unagile, untanned, unacademic, unaccomplished, unaccountable underdog somewhere on the family tree that sold an EBT card for a 12 pack of Rolling Rock and a carton of Marlboros.


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I wonder who all these fraudulent people are... because I've never met anyone who didn't fully appreciate the help they got.

*

Well, I can tell you that has always been a popular activity to sell food stamps for cigarettes and booze, and drugs.

Store owners would buy them for pennies on the dollar or exchange for a cheap bottle of booze or a pack or carton of cigarettes.

While the newer cards have reduced this fraud, it is still a problem.

Of course there are people that do not abuse their benefits and of course there are people that appreciate it, and need it.

And of course there are people that lie to qualify for these benefits that they do not deserve, and people that cheat and lie to obtain drugs and alcohol with the taxpayer provided cards.

Just one more way the taxpayers of this country are "thrown under the bus."


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Rob: "It smacks of reality when someone smuggly tells me they traded their stamps for cash to get expensive electronics."

Jodi: "Stamps? I don't believe actual food stamps have been a part of public assistance for several years, now. Everything is done via a reload-able debit card, as far as I'm aware... "

I know what Rob is talking about. And the fact that she was unaware that it's done with something that looks like a nifty debit card now just means that she's not receiving "Food Stamps"/SNAP. Yaayy, Rob!

Don: "Rob, many in our society are only one lost paycheck away from pushing a shopping cart. Even the well off can end up in this situation with just a few bad choices and losses. I read this and thought how well it described the possibility of anyone even those on this forum that could be in the position the writer is in given the political, economic condition of this country."

That's a given, Don. Anything's possible.


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Yes Rob, there may be some that use the things that are there to help them for things they shouldn't but not many. The help is a two sided coin. The ones that put all in the same cart with the bad apples make the ones that are honest and just need the boost to get back on their feet feel like the scum of the earth with the looks in line at the store. But the if they did not use the help available they would have a hard time feeding their family. Sad world we live in where people that have no horse in the running judge the ones that take advantage of the help and toss them under the bus. They will never understand till they experience it for themselves.

Speaking of chicken I went to Costco and got a membership and it has been a good thing at a good store, None of that wally world yuk. Costco has baked rotisserie chickens hot and fresh for $4.99 that are three times larger than the ones at other markets for $6.99. Figuring out the bulk stuff is a bit of a trick but looks good. Just hoping for brisket at $1.98 a lb. like I used to find in the summer. Great on the smoker but have not seen it less than $3.59 so may bite the bullet and get one soon. Can't have the summer go by without one good brisket.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Your first paragraph, I couldn't agree with more Don.

It makes me sad to read here the neverending, resentful topics or replies - often from the same posters, often with the same words and phrases by all posters who basically embrace the wholesale besmirchment regarding the character and intentions of the specific segment of society who have been issued those cards out of need. No matter how many times it is pointed out ( usually by David, every time n almost every thread, with credible links to prove) that a vast majority of those needing tax based help are honest, working to get themselves off the aid, there are those who refuse to acknowledge David's numbers and links.
They prefer to believe that the needy are also icky crooks driving brand spanking new Escalades while buying lobster, Champagne and drugs with tax dollars in between the making of brand new babies for the purpose of gaining a bigger allowance on their Snap cards.
Why the deep need to believe this ugliness about the majority of poor and then get themselves in a lather about it - a falsehood- I no longer care to try to figure out.

Apparently, the belief that most are like Rob, only unable to afford even basic needs necessary for survival without tax dollar aid - that is not a possibility for those who are relentless in their assurance that needy on tax based aid are mostly lazy, shiftless people who would rather spend ( insert name ) dollar than get up, get out and earn their own.

There ARE scammers in the system.
And this point has been continually acknowledged by just about every thread that has ever ventured down this topic. David's links of factual, actual numbers have shown that yes, there are scammers in the system.
That the percentage is so low seems to be a point of disappointment leading to total disregard by those so resentful of those on tax based aid.
It is only the apparent tiny percentage of scammers that some feel is worthy of discussion. Then, that percentage eventually encompasses all the anger which is then directed to all those living with aid.

In my opinion, some of the ugliest threads in this forum have been about the anger and disgust felt by some Americans directed at the American poor on tax based aid.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We have come to a sorry state when people who need tax-based assistance are so routinely denigrated. We have created a system in which people are reduced to needing help and then we treat them with great disrespect when they ask for it. I really don't know what is happening to this great country.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

"I wonder who all these fraudulent people are... because I've never met anyone who didn't fully appreciate the help they got."

Jodi: If that is the case then you either live under rock or are being dishonest. You never went to school? You never held a job?


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And we're back. Polarized over "never" and "always". Whatever.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I must be one of those sorry people. Just last week I was in line behind a young attractive woman, professional manicure and pedicure, great haircut and coloring, perfect makeup, with a basket full of groceries. She pulled out her EBT card and she didn't have enough on it to pay for all she had run through the scanner. Her answer, she grabbed up her card and stormed out of the store, leaving the clerk with a basket full of groceries to put back. I can't help thinking that some family who's dad is out of work, who give their kids home haircuts, and manicures consists of a pair of clippers, would have been grateful to use whatever was left on that card. There are people who deserve these benefits, there are people who don't. Clean it up.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

There's gotta be an unemployed, unskilled, untoned, unagile, untanned, unacademic, unaccomplished, unaccountable underdog somewhere on the family tree that sold an EBT card for a 12 pack of Rolling Rock and a carton of Marlboros.

If they wanted money via their EBT cards they'd simply get shopping lists from friends and relatives then get paid in cash or barter.

Selling cards is too high risk and unnecessary when they're getting near full value, or full value without selling cards.

Many have been committing fraud for decades without being reported, investigated or prosecuted by not leaving a paper or electronic trail and not engaging in very high risk activities.

That said, most fraud is due to lying about individual incomes, household incomes, household composition, addresses etc.

The people that get caught are incredibly stupid for thinking they won't get flagged via electronic and paper trails.

The streetwise types with decades or generations of experience could teach them a thing or two.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I should add that failing to disclose assets and falsifying "work search" records are other common sources of fraud.

Stanley Piper, 57, of 39 Jay St., Amsterdam, was charged with one count of fourth-degree welfare fraud for allegedly failing to report workers compensation benefits and receiving more than $1,500 in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits he otherwise would not have received.

- Jennifer Wright, 35, of 467 Hughes Road, Amsterdam, was charged with three counts of first-degree offering a false instrument for filing and one count of third-degree welfare fraud. She was charged for allegedly failing to report her household composition correctly and failing to report unemployment insurance benefits. She received $7,442 in SNAP benefits she was not eligible for, the release said.

- Ileana Guerra of 57 Bunn Street, Amsterdam, was charged with first-degree offering a false instrument for filing. Guerra filed a false job search document in an attempt to stay eligible for benefits, the release said.

- Yanira Gerena Santiago, of 7 Glen Ave., Amsterdam, was charged with first-degree offering a false instrument for filing. Santiago submitted a false job search document, the release said.

- Reina Maldonado, of 246 Guy Park Ave., Amsterdam, was charged with first-degree offering a false instrument for filing. Maldonado submitted a false job search document, the release said.

- John P. Stubley, of 47 Ridge Road, Canajoharie, was charged with first-degree offering a false instrument for filing. Stubley failed to disclose multiple property ownership, the release said.

- Michael Pearsall, 40, of 19 Gorski St., Amsterdam, was charged with three counts of first-degree offering a false instrument for filing and one count of fourth-degree welfare fraud. Pearsall failed to report online business and received $6,421 in SNAP benefits, the release said.

- Vanessa L. Patrei, 30, of 919 Dairy Hill Road, Little Falls, N.Y., was charged with fifth-degree welfare fraud and first-degree offering a false instrument for filing. Patrei claimed she lived in Fort Plain, the release said, while she actually resided in?Little Falls. The false information allowed her to collect $772 in?SNAP benefits she was not entitled to, the release said.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

And, MrsK shows up as the perfect example of those the rant in the link in the OP talks about. Thanks, MrsK, can always count on you!

Yup, not possible the woman did her own nails, right? I often do my own nails because they look just as good as a professional job.

Not possible the woman did her own hair either, I guess? Yes, of course, poor people are not able to style their hair so it looks nice, right?

And of course we all know poor people are certainly not able to apply makeup!!! Oh, my god, the woman is having a professional makeup artist come to her house daily ON OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!

And of course it's not possible that perhaps she was so embarrassed by not having enough on her SNAP card and no money in her pocket to pay the difference, that she left quickly. Nope, couldn't be that.

Yup, thanks MrsK for proving the point in the link. Can always count on you.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

So much anger and blame and pointing fingers.

What happened to compassion?

Robb, when I got my divorce I was FREAKED out. I had the mortgage all to myself, my daughter and her care all to myself, all the bills, etc. And I didn't make enough to keep the boat from sinking on my own.

I'm in a good place now and hopefully will be able to be back on my feet again (meaning equity in my home, out of debt and able to really save again), but I know how close I came/am to going down.

Plan better? This entire country went down in 2009. WHOOSH...... there went our equity in our homes, there went the job market, etc. I was hospitalized during a two month-no insurance (cause I couldn't afford it) and thank goodness it was *only* $10k.

One never knows the story of the person in the line ahead. Get your @#$@#$#@# nose out of other people's business and tend to your own life.

If you trust the government enough to give your money to them to re-distribute for social needs, including care for the poor, LET the gov take care of it. On an individual level it's NOYB.

If you don't like it, change it. Giving stink-eye to a well dressed woman in the shopping line or at the food bank doesn't help in the least and makes you look ridiculous, childish and petty.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

whoosh! Is right. That's what is sounded like when the rug went out from under me. 2008, but late 2008. Poor planning on my part had not one iota to do with it.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I do my own nails and hair... why is that so unusual? I could never afford to visit a salon. But the results are every bit as professional as if I did visit that salon and paid those exorbitant prices. My husband is my colorist, and he does an amazing pedicure, as well.

The nicer outfits I own were all gained through very careful shopping at second hand stores, or through Ebay, or through some other outlet where a fraction of the original price is paid. Either that, or they were generous gifts from friends or relatives. I would imagine I'm not the only smart shopper out there.

I once bought a designer suede handbag on Ebay that retails for $225... I got it for $24, and the shipping was FREE! Imagine that!

No, I don't know anybody receiving public assistance who defrauds the government. Every single one of them is a person of integrity who just happens to be down on luck at the moment. They are temporarily unemployed, or have lost jobs and have children to feed, or they were hurt at work and now can't manage the same kind of employment they once had.

This is exactly why so many people who actually need help don't ask for it... because it's demeaning, humiliating... it's a strike to one's pride, and the stereotypes thrown around do not help anyone feel better about their situation.

I remember a time when I had just met the man who would become my husband... he was physically disabled and trying to maintain a household with three little children, alone. He would make me go shopping to Aldi's with him because he was embarrassed to pay for groceries with his LINK card.

People would stare at us, give us dirty looks, inspecting the contents of our cart as though they sat in judgment of what items we were deserving enough to purchase.

It's debasing to have no choice but to accept such charity. People don't understand that unless they walk in those same shoes.

The comments in Don's original post are exactly the kind of things we've come to expect... people who have no personal experience or knowledge throwing around stereotypical statements or slogans of contempt for a segment of the population they should pray they are never forced to become.

It's disgraceful. How can people dishonor others in a such a shameful way?

The first paragraph in Don's most recent posting is well stated.

Just because someone appears well dressed and clean, or even stylish, does not mean they automatically fit into the preconceived box of "well off", not requiring or worthy of some assistance.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

One of our employees on food stamps drives very expensive luxury vehicles and sports cars that belong to her step-father, so she gets some strange looks from some that don't know her story when some see her use her EBT card, plus she strange looks from other residents and guests at the subsidized housing project where she lives.

Many of our relatives on food stamps also drive new, newer and expensive vehicles that belong to relatives, ride with wealthy relatives and/or live in high end apartments/homes that belong to relatives, so they get some strange looks from some that see their EBT cards.

Many people have nice homes, vehicles, toys and other things they acquired when they were in a better financial position.

Many also have many valuable assets yet bounce in an out of "cash" poverty.

As far as nice clothes, you can dress quite nicely on the cheap if you shop at yard sales, garage sales, The Salvation Army and Good Will.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

The whole "getting tattoos" comment struck me as well.

We had a little girl go missing on her way to school a few years back. She was missing for an entire year.

While she was missing, her mother (in-between walking the streets every night with her younger daughter and the dogs "looking" for Amber because the younger daughter HAD to feel helpful in some way and it was the only thing that soothed her) went out and got a tattoo (or two) and the media and judgement crows went nuts.

How could a "good" mother be in a tattoo parlor while her daughter was missing?

Made me sick. I knew that mother had gotten plans for the entire city, looking for houses with basements and checking off sexual predators one by one, driving the streets, working and working and working to find her little girl.

If you don't know, don't crow.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

When did it become acceptable to be a total stranger's judge, jury, and executioner? And this, without any prior knowledge or evidence?

There is no moral high ground to walk on that side of the road.

Speaking of, Silver... I'm almost shocked that no one ever approached us ranting about our skin art while we shopped using that LINK card... skin art that was free because our friend is the artist.

Before people judge, they should think about the possibility that some folks are honest and do use responsibility.


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I bring my ipad with me everywhere i go. When in long lines or at appointments where there is waiting to be done and people to be intolerate of, it keeps my suspicious nose occupied with a loaded book or in an extensive 'net search for deep sales on clothing or household goods or garden related things - thus keeping my judgemental mind where it belongs and my 'wanna be charitable' heart pure and open.

If someone watched me as I watched the well put together person ( or malodorous slob) in front of me pull out a snap card - and observe the faint, haughty look of disdain flash across my face - they would walk away with precisely as much and precisely as accurate an amount material in which to fully judge my own overall integrity, character and approach to life as would I with the amount of information available to me regarding the person in the line in front of me.

A paperback, a magazine, an ipad, a book of daily devotions - keeping any of them handy in your bag for situations just like this? Its a GOOD thing.


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I must operate in a total bubble as I have never observed how anyone pays for groceries. It was only through HT that I learned what the EBT choice on the bank card/credit card swiper black box - usually placed too high for a 5' female (except at Trader Joe's) - actually meant. I'm too busy placing my purchases on the conveyer belt, hoping that the bulk purchase bags aren't torn and leaking, tossing on the cloth bags, hunting for my debit card, and fishing out my Co-op membership card to notice much -- except if the cashier (female or male) is wearing some cool earrings.


Rereading my comments I see that I've not been entirely truthful: I notice when someone is trying to give exact change and spends an inordinate amount of time poking around for pennies as if there were a great prize for having the exact amount.


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I usually busy myself with reading the tabloid headlines at the checkout... they're always good for a laugh!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Jodi, if you want to see fraud, go to work in a big box tax office that does EITC returns. I can pretty much guarantee that you will see fraud from people who want more entitlements than they are already receiving. Just because you aren't aware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Just finished a class on ACA - what a nightmare of regulations and opportunities tax fraud. It is going to make the underground economy more attractive.


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I so wish we had a Trader Joes!

We have Whole Foods which was a nice experience the first couple of times we went but its location couldnt be any worse than it is- in the city, in a congested, complicated
" Is this a one way street? Is this an illegal place to turn? Will I get out of this traffic in one piece?"
type of area.

In the end, the goods aren't worth the hassle, they just arent 'all that.'

But from what Ive heard about Trader Joes, I think it would be VERY worth it, demanding at least a once a month visit, even if the location was equally as awful to get to and away from as is Whole Foods.


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The truth is that there are people who scam the system......and there are those who cheat on their taxes, and there are those who pay people "under the table", and there are those who lie at customs.........

Ripping off the tax payer happens at every economic level......we just find the people who do at certain economic levels to be more acceptable than those who do it at lower levels.

Yes some cheat but most don't.............not that that matters when we think ourselves to be somehow "better" than "them"


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My incidents have been the person proudly discussing how they got that brand new 55" television or phone or... I didn't ask, they were excited. No judging here, just sad that someone else had to do without for them to have that fun gadget. Hopefully not any children who should've have food.

But I will say this, there is an awful lot of judgement going on on this thread. How's about we practice what we preach?


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Nope jill, not possible. I probably wouldn't have noticed at all except for the very intricate designs on her acrylic nails. And sorry, I do notice when women have excellent haircuts and colors. And walking away embarrassed is one thing..but walking away ticked off is another. And I do notice people in the check out line, often we speak, often it may be an acquaintance. I find people interesting. And sometimes I may even see something that bothers me.


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Sometimes when I'm embarrassed I look like I'm mad.

And I admit to questioning how people can _______ when they so obviously _________.

Age tempers those thoughts in me, as I age I experience more and have become more aware that everything I see is colored through my experience and isn't necessarily reality.

Judging is a personal choice that often hurts the judger more than the judged. I remember in school making a comment about a girl not wearing a bra. I don't know why I said it, it just came out. Later I learned that she was sexually abused by her dad. Being criticized for her breasts being in a bra or not was another form of abuse.

Having compassion, being generous in my thoughts of others (outwardly expressed or inwardly considered) makes me feel better, softer, more human. And I don't want to be an abuser.


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I probably wouldn't have noticed at all except for the very intricate designs on her acrylic nails.

That is quite a lot of detail to notice on a perfect stranger.

Like Nancy I must operate in a total bubble because I also don't note how people pay for their groceries, what is in their carts or whether they have acrylic nails or not. The only way to know for sure about the latter is to ask them since there are many women who have lovely nails that aren't acrylic but yet some think they are and to say otherwise is simply not true.
There are many far more interesting and important things to note and notice than a strangers personal business who is on line in a store.

It says far more about the person judging than the judged.


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MYOB is my motto--I'm sure I'm as judgmental as many other people, but it's a good thing to keep one's eyes on one's own business.


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Of course there are the few bad apples... you'll find that in every bunch. But for the most past, I think you'll find that people are generally honest and forthright, which is why the nasty stereotypes should not be continually repeated.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Rob, your last sentence - I would disagree with you, its one that has been made many times in this forum. Even when I participated in every single thread of such nature, I always walked away feeling like I had been outrageously judgemental, myself. Not any more, not after all these years reading the same things about the same sections of fellow Americans darn near every week in this forum.

This is a hot topics forum.

People who feel free to do some of the judging they have done regarding great masses *faceless* people along with *faceless* fellow citizens are also the same people who repeatedly insist that they do not judge - as if the harsh and ugly personal accusations about total strangers - for whom they have absolutely ZIP personal information about- somehow elevates them above the judgemental astonishment from forum members who are appalled and repelled by such ugly, suspicious, mean spirited judgements regarding a percentage of Americans they have no personal information about.

As if, when this does take place, they are innocent of ugly behavior when participating in the back and forth " how dare you" that always follows because, after all, they were talking about millions they dont know rather
than user names and personalities they are years lonf familiar with on this forum.

Nope. I dont buy into that sort of self excusing behavior. Mrsk made a reply, knowing - from past history- what the reaction would be. As does any forum member who has ever participated for a week here. A familiar reply in the same vein used regarding snap card holders - although I will say that imo its by far a tamer negative judgement of a total stranger than most I read in here.

But, she offered it, knowing the response she always gets so obviously, she's decided its worth it, she's good with it. Heck, the expected responses?
Like shooting fish in the barrel, dontchaknow.

We, the fish along with the millions of the unfortunates they display utter disdain for in discussions within this forum - remarks repelling and angering many others in the smug heartlessness of them all, yes...expect them because the fish will keep defending the faceless poor from such utter disdain and disregard found in such remarks.
Repeated year after year, the same way with the same insistence accompanied by the same outrage when they are called on those remarks. Which they are, time and time again, in the same judgemental spirit as is employed against the millions of poor.

So yes - in the end we all end up dirty.
But we all dont necessarily end up with the same TYPE of dirt on us when each participates in threads which go down this endless, endless road where the outrage on both sides always burns equally brightly, fed by posters who actively CHOOSE to participate.

All dirt is not equally dirty. It may be dirt, but some dirt I can tolerate on my hands, depending upon the situation, and some I wont.

Flailing against judgemental disdain regarding an unknown snap card user or most of poor people - that is exactly the sort of soil I require to get on my hands and under my fingernails in order to look at myself in the mirror every morning. It might not ever change any ugly word against the poor which is ever uttered in this forum, but it will be said. By someone. If not Chase or myself Jodi or Nancy Kate who I miss so very much or any of the rest of Americans here, there will always be someone to defend the unknown, faceless poor from such ugly assumptions. Its honestly the American way.

I gotta wake up and look at myself in the mirror every day. That sort of dirt that comes protesting ugly assumptions about faceless people in need - I'll live with it.

(Not a response in anger at you, by the way)


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

You crack me up, MrsK. And you know for sure how she got those nails you were paying so close attention to? Perhaps a friend did them for her. You know, you can buy them at the drug store with the designs already done. And put them on yourself. Did you know that? Or maybe they were a gift from someone. The point is you were assuming.

Since you were so in her business, why didn't you just ask her. Geez, you are amazing.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

mylab, you are eloquent and admirable. You are right, some kinds of dirt under the fingernails are worthwhile gathering. Thank you.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

In Walmart or a supermarket line, I don't do the tabloids - 9 times out of 10 times I know nothing about the faces gracing the covers. I doubt if I could pick a Kardashian out of a line-up. I'm usually engaged in digging my purse out from under a pile of things.

People here are friendly; many will talk - especially in Walmart which seems to be doing away with more and more live cashiers in favor of the self check-out lanes. Lots of folks aren't wild about those. Me included since I'm pretty exclusively cash and carry.

People watching, in a non judgmental way, is like bird watching. You're surrounded by people doing what people are wont to do... not what anyone expects them to do. It's almost a natural habitat.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Why thank you jill, but I don't think I'm all that amazing. Maybe a little more than some I'm reading here. Live in your little bubbles and don't pay attention to the people around you. Let the liberal talking heads or your liberal buddies here tell you what you should be thinking. So that means you've never stood in line behind an elderly lady who was two dollars short paying for her few little groceries. Never quietly given the clerk the eye that you would make up the difference so she could tell the lady she had just enough. Or slipped a dollar to a little kid whose mom didn't have an extra dollar so he could have an Icee. So that's how it works huh? You don't look but you can judge those that do. I'll take amazing as a compliment, because it means I'm not like some of you.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

That's quite a leap, mrsk. You don't know what anybody but yourself has done or not done in terms of helping other people in a grocery store. You only know that some people think that judging folks who use EBT may not be good form. If you are generous with others, good for you. But don't assume that others are not.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others: ok.

That's quite a leap, mrsk. You don't know what anybody but yourself has done or not done in terms of helping other people in a grocery store. You only know that some people think that judging folks who use EBT may not be good form. If you are generous with others, good for you. But don't assume that others are not.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

You beat me to the punch, pidge. I'll wager it's a rare soul here on HT (or anywhere) that hasn't extended a kindness to a perfect stranger who finds themselves caught in an immediate need.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I was simply going by the posts here. Those that live in bubbles and pay no attention, those that read the tabloids or their tablets and pay no attention to other people in line. I wasn't the one who made that claim. Hard to extend a kindness to a stranger that you pretend isn't there.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Hard to extend a kindness to a stranger that you pretend isn't there.

False equivalency: Not jumping to conclusions regarding others' purchases and financial situation is not the same as pretending someone doesn't exist. If there were a snag in the line because of lack of funds most likely everyone waiting would know of the problem.

Rather than customers coming up short of funds, I'm more likely to see people asking for money at the farmers' markets and the Co-op. I give, and so do others.

At the farmers' market the vendors will usually let the produce go for the amount the customer has (as long as it's reasonable enough). Often vendors will give regular customers extra.




There are some people that I do try to pretend don't exist. One, a regular at the Co-op, is the woman who drives a car plastered with bumper stickers - and I mean literally covered - warning about the dangers of chem trails, and where to find more information on the government conspiracy. I made the mistake once of making eye contact with her in the parking lot; 10 minutes wasted before I could ease my way out of her paranoia and her amazing ability to talk without seeming to take a break to breathe. And there's the time she was giving grief to the produce manager because the size of the aloe vera leaves were too large this week (and last week they were too dry, and before that some other problem) and she didn't need that much aloe vera and why weren't there smaller leaves as well. So yes, occasionally there's someone I like to pretend doesn't exist.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I was simply going by the posts here.

Nonsense. Your attempt to insult others doesn't negate or trump real facts. Your post was about your judgement of someone with no knowledge of their circumstances, only their fingernail polish and is very different than seeing someone not able to to pay for groceries on a line in the store. Asinine to try to equate the the two. Your stunt and attempt to back yourself out of the corner backfired again. Your fallacies aren't based on any reality, only what you made up in your own mind. Many have often posted how they help people in need. Your post had nothing to do with that.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

At least be honest. You were so busy trying to play gotcha that you backed yourselves into a corner. I don't really believe that anyone here would ignore someone in need. But in order to try to make me look bad you went too far. If that is what makes your day, have at it.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

You were so busy trying to play gotcha that you backed yourselves into a corner.

Not at all.

I think there's some projecting going on here given that a distortion of what we - the 'you' that is being addressed - wrote is the only basis for your accusation.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Well, apparently they ain't tired!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Maybe you should go back and read your own bubble post nancy, along with those that followed. It's not an accusation, it is what it is.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

You were so busy trying to play gotcha that you backed yourselves into a corner. I don't really believe that anyone here would ignore someone in need.

You backed yourself into a corner with your post about the woman's fingernails and then this:

Let the liberal talking heads or your liberal buddies here tell you what you should be thinking. So that means you've never stood in line behind an elderly lady who was two dollars short paying for her few little groceries. Never quietly given the clerk the eye that you would make up the difference so she could tell the lady she had just enough. Or slipped a dollar to a little kid whose mom didn't have an extra dollar so he could have an Icee. So that's how it works huh? You don't look but you can judge those that do. I'll take amazing as a compliment, because it means I'm not like some of you.

No one did anything to you, we responded to your posts and your fallacies.

.....................................

Well, apparently they ain't tired!

Demi, didn't you just post this only minutes ago? Short memory?

Posted by demifloyd 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 17, 13 at 18:30

Just don't insult me, denigrate me and lie about me and mischaracterize my stance, and most of all, do not assume motivations and then post what you think are my motivations for the opinions I have.

It's really quite simple--it's at the top of the page on the forum rules.

If you want others to follow your own rules, you need to heed them as well otherwise it is just another example of
your "do as you say but not as you do" posts and Mrskjun should do the same. You can't have it both ways.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

MsK, perhaps you should also read what I wrote in response to your imagined scenario in a check-out line.

Someone admits making a negative judgement about a stranger based on a close observation of superficial factors. When challenged on the judgement -- gross assumptions being more accurate -- without the least bit of knowledge of the judged person's circumstances, the response is to lash out at others.

It's not the first time that we've been down this path, and I'm afraid that it won't be the last, but it's tiresome playing this game. The next phase in this well-practiced game is to claim that the challenges come only because the admitted judgement-maker-based-on-little-facts is a conservative, not because of the actual objections stated by the critics.

Around and around we go.

I'm off this particular merry-go-round.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Thank you for the compliment Pidge. I would have replied to you sooner but I shut this down and left to do some stuff.

Smart thinking, Nancy.

I have been in the process of learning to doing exactly the same thing. If stirred up, I say my piece, then make myself leave the thread and go do something fun - leaving the thread or forum sometimes for hours, more often for days, sometimes as far as the thread is concerned, for good- if I do come back into a thread where I have had my frustrated say, now more often than not I mostly just leave any further commenting alone even if poked - if I even ever return to the thread.
If Ive had my say there is no point in further argument. When it continues and then ends up down a silly, defensive road like this one has, I have other paths to take and other threads to read. So, Im with you -
Getting out has been working well for me, others should give it a try first if quitting the forum has been a consideration.

These more distasteful forum clumps of threads tend to pass, right?

The problem is that this forum isnt designed for lighthearted threads to come in which are ( to me) always a lot of fun, allowing for tempers to cool and good hearted exchanges to take place, especially among forum members who might have been at it with each other recently. We can only have more hot threads which keep the ill will alive.

That is what is wearing me out about this forum. If we could also have silly threads or not political or hot topic in any way alongside the hot threads, I do believe it could make all the difference. Perhaps it could help us all to be a bit more open minded about fellow forum members and they about us. More willing to maybe say the words
"Maybe you have a point."
"Maybe I went too far"
"Maybe you are right"
And the most difficult....
"Maybe I was wrong"

Oh well.

Done with this thread.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Look What They've Done To My Song :
Melanie Safka

Look what they've done to my song, Ma
Look what they've done to my song
Well it's the only thing I could do half right
And it's turning out all wrong, Ma
Look what they've done to my song

Look what they've done to my brain, Ma
Look what they've done to my brain
Well they picked it like a chicken bone
And I think I'm half insane, Ma
Look what they've done to my song

I wish I could find a good book to live in
Wish I could find a good book
Well, if I could find a real good book
I'd never have to come out and look at
What they've done to my song

La la la...
Look what they've done to my song

But maybe it'll all be all right, Ma
Maybe it'll all be OK
Well, if the people are buying tears
I'll be rich some day, Ma
Look what they've done to my song

Ils ont changé ma chanson, Ma
Ils ont changé ma chanson
C'est la seule chose que je peux faire
Et á§e n'est pas bon, Ma
Ils ont changé ma chanson

Look what they've done to my song, Ma
Look what they've done to my song
Well they tied it up in a plastic bag
And turned it upside down
Look what they've done to my song

Ils ont changé ma chanson, Ma...

Look what they've done to my song, Ma
Look what they've done to my song
Well it's the only thing I could do all right
And they turned it upside down
Look what they've done to my song


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Mrs: "I was simply going by the posts here. Those that live in bubbles and pay no attention, those that read the tabloids or their tablets and pay no attention to other people in line. I wasn't the one who made that claim. Hard to extend a kindness to a stranger that you pretend isn't there."

Right on the money. Any defensive reactions from the bubble people is silly. Silence, or "oops, you have a point" would be appropriate. But that's fine; Mrs made a valid point.

Around here we look each other. We even speak nicely to one another. Maybe we go home and talk about the well-dressed person who used a SNAP card and wonder what was going on. So what.


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RE: A rant for people that judge.

Almost forgot what Chase posted earlier:

"Ripping off the tax payer happens at every economic level......we just find the people who do at certain economic levels to be more acceptable than those who do it at lower levels."

"We"? No. You, not me.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Aren't you special.....


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Chase: "Aren't you special.....".

We're all special, Chase ;-)

But "we" don't all think that "ripping off the tax payer" "at certain economic levels" is "acceptable." Since it is sometimes said here on HT that silence means acquiesence, I'm making it clear that you don't speak for me on this.

You DID say: "Ripping off the tax payer happens at every economic level......we just find the people who do at certain economic levels to be more acceptable than those who do it at lower levels."


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I can't find my fly swatter.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Up here it's mosquitoes, Don. ;-)


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

My own view is that some folks lack the necessary life experience which would to enable them to maintain a sense of empathy toward others.

Picture Paul Ryan reading up on Ayn Rand before ever gaining much exposure to the real world outside his small town and the people he associated with. For a lot of people, their fears and their ideology predate their ability to reason about social issues and in some cases to empathize with those unfamiliar to them and foreign to their way of life.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 0:49


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Don and Myab................thank you.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I'm reminded of the assumptions whispered, and dirty looks given when a person is unable to complete a purchase because their credit or debit card doesn't work.

The immediate assumption is that the person is trying to use an account that's overdrawn, or they don't have the money... when in fact, it may be that the magnetic strip on the card is scratched beyond technological recognition, or the account hasn't been activated, or there's some other technological problem.

Either way, the whispers and looks from some of the others waiting in line can be exceedingly humiliating.

It's become easier to guess or believe the worst about people than to give anyone the benefit of doubt, and believe the best.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

The author of the OP link indeed is a ranter.

With her foul language, bitter, ranting attitude, I wouldn't hire her.

Hay


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Jodi, I've not only witnessed this but had it happen to me. I have been stunned by the attitudes of some of the people around me. Too bad, isn't it?

Of course we will now be told that we are irresponsible card holders for not taking better care of our cards. And the beat goes on!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Right, Pidge!

I've had it happen to me, too... it's a little humiliating to have no choice but to walk out of the store without any purchases... and have everyone stare at you like you're a thief... and then to have to go home and figure out why the darn thing didn't work!

And the truth is... it can happen regardless of how well we take care of our plastic! Cards that are used often wear out, or may get scratched... or someone can steal an identity or hack the company's main server... there are all sorts of reasons why a card might not work!

Even a paper check can give one fits at a checkout counter. I once had an account where the checks I ordered came back with the numbers printed in the wrong order at the bottom. What a hassle that was!

And then there are those odd sized business checks that don't fit the readers at certain stores... or a torn corner from a check... or a crease or a fold...


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Oh gosh Jodi, I was in (and now I can't remember the name of the store, it's like Costco but you don't need a membership) and you can only use a debit or cash.... I'd forgotten that.... and went to swipe the debit I never use and FORGOT my pin. At least I thought I did. For about 5 seconds, because it was declined, and I knew I had enough money... and then I realized it was expired.

Oh the humiliation. Thank goodness I had enough cash to cover it because they wouldn't take a CC. My face burned all the way to the car.

It's funny, I grew up in a place where most are well off (one of the highest living expenses in the US) but most wear worn clothes and drive rusty/dirty vehicles because it's near impossible to stay really clean in a day to day life.

I learned at a very young age not to judge people on their outward appearance. Often those with the really nice cars lived in a shack and ate junk. And those with the beaters may have also lived in a shack, but took multiple vacations every year and their kids went to private schools.

I have found that when I am most judgmental I am deep down insecure. The more secure I am in my life, the more compassionate I am, and the more willing I am to be generous of thought and action to others.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Fewer and fewer people are observant while waiting in checkout lines.

Situational awareness in general has been declining, many are too focused on texting, surfing etc and many are daydreaming.

I'm the ideal customer - I'm alert, fast, pay in cash, often don't want change, often bag my own stuff and never slow down the line.

Due to my situational awareness, experience and memory I'm able to avoid slow lines, slow cashiers, problematic customers etc.

I make some judgements based on past experience, instincts, assumptions, probabilities and stereotypes as well since it saves time.

Many judge me when I'm in stores. For whatever reasons many customers think I'm an owner or manager.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

"Many judge me when I'm in stores. For whatever reasons many customers think I'm an owner or manager"

Maybe that is because you are bagging your own stuff. Maybe they think you are the bagger.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

As a cashier many moons ago, I learned to say, it's ok, it happens to us all! Hopefully, others thought, yea, it did happen to me and it was hard to endure. Me, I just don't care what everyone else thinks about my finances enough to be embarrassed. why tell you this? I wish you'd cut yourself some slack, and maybe, the others near you are like me, they are already cutting you some. Because it has happened to everyone. I'm sure someone will pipe up and say not them, but don't listen. It's a really common occurence.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I like to bag my own stuff too. Last time I went to the store the bagger put everything hard on top of everything soft, everything wet on top of everything dry.

I'm going to drag this over to another thread, but gosh Mark what you said was true about situational awareness!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

rob, as a cashier, if someone didn't have enough on their card to purchase everything, did you give them the option of putting a few things back like this cashier did? And as a cashier, how would you have felt if the person simply flipped their hand at you and stormed out, leaving you with a cart full of bagged groceries to be returned to the shelves.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Me, I normally don't care what others think... but it can be a little embarrassing when these sorts of things happen.

I can never remember pin numbers, so I never use the one card we do have as a debit... I use it as a credit card, instead. We're lucky to have that option. Also, if I use it as a debit, I get charged... if I use it as credit, we get money back. It's a no-brainer!

Bagging one's own groceries? I prefer it!

I once had a 5 pound bag of sugar fall out of a hole in the bottom of the flimsy shopping bag from the store and land in a giant mess on a gravel driveway! Not much could be salvaged. It pays to double bag some items if you must use their bags, and have control over what and how much goes into each bag. I bring my own bags now, so they're a lot sturdier.

Situational awareness... yeah, I see oodles of people busy talking or texting on phones or other gadgets... and I'm surprised we don't hear about more crime due to people being totally unaware of what's going on around them.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I like to bag my own stuff too. Last time I went to the store the bagger put everything hard on top of everything soft, everything wet on top of everything dry.

At some stores we shop you have to bag your own stuff, plus we use many self-checkouts, however at stores with cashier/baggers many cashiers are very slow, they place raw meat in bags with dry goods, chemicals in bags with food, heavy items on top of soft items etc.

Some put so many heavy items in a single flimsy bag that the bags will bust as well.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I've been known to hand them cash out of my own pocket. That was back when I was stuck with chicken or tuna for every meal. But yes, I tried to help them make what they had go far enough. I have had people walk out and leave the entire cart, saying they'd be right back with the correct payment type or enough... and I rolled it over to customer service and gave them an hour or so to come back and not have to re-shop. After an hour, I put back the refrigerated items and later, the rest. I think maybe, once or twice someone actually came back and. Usually, I'd say to myself, a "bebacker" and then smile. I never faulted them or made them feel it was some sort of blemish. Been there done that too much and knew better.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I try to use self-checkout as often as I can because it's generally faster. The lines are usually short and there is little time to see what others are doing.
One of my daughters works as a bagger in a local Giant. I love her stories about customers, most of whom are pleasant, but once in a while she gets a doozy. Drunks are the worst, only a bit worse than the ones who are sure the cashier is cheating them and refuse to leave until they have checked every single item on the receipt.

I know, my post is not controversial. Humor me, lol.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Many of our female relatives that work or have worked as cashiers hate the CREEPERS the most - older males that hit on them, stare at them, make creepy comments etc.

They get a lot of drunks on the night shifts as well.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

That reminds me of my story. I am not afraid of anyone, but there was something about this group of guys that would come through my line that just didn't sit well with me. A co-worker of whom I wasn't especially fond of nor he of me was cashier in the lane next to me one time they came through. I could see him slyly walked away, go up to the store manager and they both came back. They threw that group of guys out of the store! If he was sticking up for me, not liking me and all, it must not have been good. I don't speak Spanish fluently, but apparently my coworker did and understood them well enough. Still don't know what those "creepers" said and don't wanna know. I did catch a word ot two every now and gain, so maybe that is what didn't sit well.

This post was edited by rob333 on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 13:35


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

One of my nieces - a cashier and shift manager has had creepers comment on her looks, her chest, ask her for her number, ask where she lives, ask if she has a boyfriend. She says the worst thing is the staring "eye fuc%ing" as she calls it.

She works at two stores where many customers are Hispanic and many make crude comments thinking she and others won't know what they said, however she and many other workers speak Spanish.

Two male customers once waited for her in the parking lot after her store closed, so she had police do a drive by and currently she won't leave the store without an escort.

Since she's a night manager and closer at one store she often gets the drunks, the shoppers that don't want to leave, shoppers that knock on the door after closing and people hanging out in the parking lots after closing.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Yes, par for the course for that type of work. It's was not fun. I guess I did get to practice my non-snide, but solid nunya business answers ;)

Nonetheless, I do think everyone should have to work in a job that meets the general public on their level. At least once, for like about six or twelve months.

She should never have been going out without an escort. Hard lesson to learn. Luckily, she didn't learn it the hard way.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I won't use the self checkout no matter how long the lines at the regular checkouts are. My theory is the self checkout probably costs someone a job and I would rather help someone keep a job than save a few minutes.

If there is no bagger, I usually start bagging my own groceries into the shopping bags I bring with me. If there is a bagger, I let him or her do their job.

This post was edited by jlhug on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 15:56


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Live in your little bubbles and don't pay attention to the people around you. Let the liberal talking heads or your liberal buddies here tell you what you should be thinking.

Let me see if I understand...

because I don't assume someone with manicured nails and styled hair that has a SNAP card is ripping off my tax dollars, that means that "liberal talking heads" or my "liberal buddies" tell me what to think.

I guess I just don't understand how your brain works and never will.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Heri: "Picture Paul Ryan reading up on Ayn Rand before ever gaining much exposure to the real world outside his small town and the people he associated with."

63,575 doesn't seem all that small. I'd call that a "big town." Or actually, a "medium size city."


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

jhug, I respect your point of view. Because one of my daughters works as a cashier/bagger (depending on what's needed of her in her store), I kow she depends on folks like you to keep her in a job. And when I have a big order I also hit a regular line. But when I'm running home from work and need just a few items, I really appreciate the self-checkout. It all depends.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I don't care for self-checkouts, myself... I prefer the interaction with a real person.

Similarly, I hang up on all recorded calls... I much prefer speaking with real live people. If someone or some business can't call me in person, I don't have time for them.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We have many relatives that work for grocery stores that have multiple duties - cashiers, baggers, stockers, cart wranglers and self-service monitors.

Their jobs are very secure as their stores have very high turnover and many workers that turn down hours, days, shifts, on-call hours etc.

They're adding more automation - self service checkouts, motorized cart pushers etc due to the worker situation and brutal competition.

They eliminated many of the higher paid positions and hired many more part-timers.

Many that have worked there for over a decade are still part time and don't make much more than new workers.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

At a few stores I shop I use the self checkouts, cash out in other departments, cash out at the service desk or put stuff back and walk out as the lines are long, few registers are open and the cashiers are slow.

Many stores are very poorly managed which is good for other businesses.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

jodik - I'm with you on preferring to deal with live people. I can go my entire day and do all my errands without speaking to a single person. Everything is now self-check - the gas station, the library, ATM's, the grocery store, home hardware stores, all bills now paid by internet.

I know it's great for busy people but I thing there is a big loss wrt a sense of community and neighbourhood. It can become very isolating.

And now with everyone texting instead of speaking either face to face or even just by phone there is a further personal disconnect between people.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I really like it when I deal with friendly attentive cashiers, however so many are like robots these days.

Of course we've poached many of the good ones as they're so hard to find.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I was a front end manager at a big box retail store. Those poor cashiers. I'll tell you.

Idiots at corporate have no idea. They had a very long list of all these things cashiers were to say to each and every customer -hello how are you; have our credit card?; find everything; help you with anything else; blah blah blah. If I remember correctly, at the time I left, there were seven items on that list. And, meanwhile, high tech software was keeping track of every cashier on how many customers were rung up and how many items in exactly how much time. So, I can see how robotic it looked to people. And felt to the cashiers.

I held a contest with the rest of the managers to see how they would do when they came up to ring and help with lines. (The only way to make them understand.) They didn't do too well, but their annual reviews didn't include the contest. At least they came up to help more often.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I don't like that disconnect with real, live people. It does kind of crush that sense of community.

Maybe that's why it's so difficult to get a "thank you" out of someone for holding open a door... it's a small, inconsequential thing, I know, but it kind of bothers me because I was taught common courtesy and manners, and I would rather expect that same thing out of others... especially folks closer to my own age.

It's not that I'm not independent and able to do for myself... and I don't mind solitude most times... it's that it's so much nicer to do business with a real person, to interact on that personal level, even if it's just one or two lines of small talk.

We have become a society of busy people living fast-paced lives, and technology has made some of it easier and more convenient... but it cuts out that sense of community, of belonging, and it ushers in a forced isolation, a disconnect, I think.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Depends--I like self-checkout at gas stations and grocery store, love to chat away with the folks at my favorite bead store where we exchange ideas about making things. Buying gas and food are often robotic tasks themselves, talking about creative projects is sheer pleasure. I'll bet you like the latter one, too, Jodi, when you are talking to folks where you buy your clay!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

They had a very long list of all these things cashiers were to say to each and every customer -hello how are you; have our credit card?; find everything; help you with anything else; blah blah blah. If I remember correctly, at the time I left, there were seven items on that list

Before our niece became a manager she ran register. She was supposed to say to customers - hello, how are you today, did you find everything you were looking for, do you have your rewards card, would you like to apply for our rewards card, thanks and have a nice day. Some days she was supposed to inform customers about specials as well.

She would get warned, written up, demoted or suspended for forgetting or refusing to say these things too many times. It all depended on the co-workers, managers, shift managers etc. Some were total pric%s.

They had performance standards and reviews as well. When someone fell behind they were monitored by team members/management, re-trained, demoted etc.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Mark James, if those stores are like my closest name grocery store, they are spending their time worrying about all the wrong things.

Give me a decent yellow onion that not only looks decent but is not rotting on the inside. That is all I ask. Im actually buying two yellow onions now, praying one will be good and less and less time, it will be.

The produce manager is now getting snippy with me when I bring them back with my sales receipt. One more eye roll and snippy comment and I will tell him the number of phone pictures of the rotten on the inside and pics of sales receipts Ive documented and am willing to send off to the head guy at headquarters because nobody seems to be able to get a reliable produce vendor. Ive never seen anything like it with any other grocery. Its the closest one for ten miles or me along with the rest of this side of town would dump it.

And their milk eggs are frequently with a sell date of the next day with no available fresher supply. Tons of last day or near last date sell bys.

Really? Thats the best they can offer but thinks the importance of all that other useless free gab they force their cashiers to say makes them attractive to their customer?


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

mylab, I am so sorry that you are getting such lousy service and products. I have so many grocery within easy driving distance that I really don't have your problems.

One of my daughters works at one of those stores as a cashier/bagger and often laughs and groans about all the stuff she is supposed to do. But the goods that pass through her hands are generally just fine.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

The best is when they make all the staff in the grocery store wear bright yellow t-shirts because bananas are on sale, 49 cents a lb. With an iron-on logo that tells you this.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We're over-saturated with stores in many regions, so the brutal competition has really forced stores to step up their game.

If some stores have issues with prices, selection, quantities, products, service etc, many customers take their business to numerous competitors - either next door, across the street or a few minutes away.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Speaking of shirts with advertising - when our niece worked register she often had to wear shirts with store promotions on the front and back.

She was once warned, written up then demoted to cart wrangler/bagger for a month as she wore a vest or zippered jacket over her t-shirt since creepers were constantly staring at her chest while reading the copy on the shirt.

Eventually the store let workers wear store provided vests and/or jackets of a certain style/color.

At the time she was only making $8.50 per hour and frequently had weeks with 0, 1 or 2 4-hour shifts per week.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Fun to shop when the 'suits' show up from regional hq, there lecturing, sternly, the staff on how to stock shelves appealingly, and how packaged meat should be placed in the bins so that the most expensive is on top, and other stuff that the same staff learned to do 20 years ago, was doing, is still doing, and fully intends to do just like they always have just as soon as the suits leave and they can get back to work.

/purple steam from the ears


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Funny...I so much prefer self serve checkout. If I don't have to deal with a person I'm much happier. I find that mostly the person is unhelpful anyway.

I know someone that will not get an EZ-Pass because it takes jobs away from the toll collectors. I totally appreciate his willingness to wait in the long lines at toll booths while the EZ-Pass lanes fly on by him. I just can't do it. I have EZ-Pass and feel guilty but my time is important.

I've thought about this a lot over the years. My job basically puts people out of work. I automate processes by developing computer systems for a segment of the financial services community that make things easier to do, thereby making the number of required employees less. I feel guilty about that too. But, technology is a part of our lives and makes things easier and better for a lot of things. It is a conundrum, though.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We would be much better served if competition was allowed but this small valley produced a man who started a very good grocery store which went to national chain, its a huge success story. He also established a good little four year college named after him, located either on this towns line or the next little town over - a respectable and respected man in this small, geographically rather isolated area.

The store is one of the only grocery store brands in the entire state. We are stuck.

He would roll over in his grave if he saw what they have done to his chain, that with his name still attached. I dont know how this brand is doing elsewhere, but this state is so poorly served by that store. Im fairly sure that the family sold out and part of the sale had to include the name but Im not sure on that point.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We would be much better served if competition was allowed but this small valley produced a man who started a very good grocery store which went to national chain, its a huge success story. He also established a good little four year college named after him, located either on this towns line or the next little town over - a respectable and respected man in this small, geographically rather isolated area.

The store is one of the only grocery store brands in the entire state. We are stuck.

He would roll over in his grave if he saw what they have done to his chain, that with his name still attached. I dont know how this brand is doing elsewhere, but this state is so poorly served by that store. Im fairly sure that the family sold out and part of the sale had to include the name but Im not sure on that point.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but with time on my hands today...and I learned something. I had no idea what the EBT thing on the card reader meant and now I know. Am I dumb or what?

I do not live in a bubble, I just don't judge the people around me in the checkout line. I am not a better or more moral person, it has just never occurred to me to do it. The only reason I look into the cart of the person in front is to judge how long I think it is going to take to ring it up. I will notice occasionally that the person behind me has only a thing or two and I let them go before me if I have a lot of stuff. As for judging and weighing the merits of people getting Snap benefits-fortunately I live in a Representative Republic and I have delegated that task to others who get paid good money to do it so I don't have to.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

patriciae, you have written a better description than I have about how I behave in a store. I especially like what you about noticing what's in another's card only for the purpose of evaluating how long the transaction might take.
I use the self-service as much as I can--and in those lines folks are always in a hurry and cannot be bothered with what one is buying beyond wishing one would jsut hurry up already.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I do live in a bubble. I only look in a person's cart to see if I should change lines. I wouldn't know if a person is on welfare ,because I don't interact. I want to be in and out in the shortest time.

In fact in my major grocery store , I self scan every item, put it in my cart and the whole thing is tallied up at the end and I talk to no one. I do like the produce guy and chat with him and the deli lady always has my cheese sliced and ready for me. In fact when she's not there, I ask when she will be and go back and get my cheese. Perfect slicer and every time I compliment her .

Jeez, I wonder how people judge me? I've cut my own hair for 35 years and was to a nail salon once in my life when my daughter took me to a spa for my birthday. I actually hated having them done and don't even use polish. I'm usually in shorts and a tee, so I guess I look like I'm on welfare by the judgmental ones.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I had no idea what the EBT thing on the card reader meant and now I know. Am I dumb or what?

I only learned about the EBT thing a few months ago -- from people at HT complaining about purchases made with food stamps.

Against my better judgement, I tried the self-scanner at the supermarket again today. Only one item, time to roll the dice. Same result; the 'wait for attendent' notice comes on which means as long a delay as if I were in a regular line. Something about not using the store's crappy plastic bags sets off an internal alarm.

The one woman who I like to pretend doesn't exist was at the Co-op this morning - or her car was because thankfully I didn't see her. Stickers plastered on all five surfaces: Chem Trails Kill; Look at the Sky; Ask Me About Chem Trails; Abolish the Federal Reserve (maybe she's not just a one-note samba).


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I had no idea what the EBT thing on the card reader meant and now I know. Am I dumb or what?

I still don't know. I know that food stamps are now a credit card instead of the old style paper things (which in my entire life I only noticed someone using once). So, how do you know someone is using an EBT card vs a credit/debit card? Well, actually, I don't care how to know. I'm just curious how people know the person in front of them is using that? Are they looking that closely to read something on the card? Is it a color that is recognizable? I guess I'm dumb about this too.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I am loving the wonderful goofiness of so many of us on this thread who just move through the world without judging others around us. So cool!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Unless someone is waving the card around, one would be pretty hard pressed to tell an EBT from any credit or debit card.

Even with cataract surgery two years ago which gave me the distance vision of an eagle plus being separated from the customer ahead of me with my cart and because the card swiper is usually skewed a bit toward the bagging end of the conveyor rather than in a back facing direction and, first and foremost, because I'm not interested, I have no idea what's on the face of another's plastic.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I'm just curious how people know the person in front of them is using that?

The black box card scanners here have the swipe side on the right with the face of the card towards the user. I don't know how anyone would know what card was being used as the back is facing those in line, and the customer's hand is covering the card as it's being swiped.

I guess I've never been interested enough to see what type of plastic people are using.

Confession: I notice any bouquets being purchased. Oooh! What's that??


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Nancy..I notice when men are purchasing a big bouquet of flowers and carrying them to the cashier...thinking is it an anniversary or is he just a good guy?


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Oooh, flowers--always suggests a celebration, a gift, a party. Always a lovely gesture. Worth noticing because it spreads around a little good will.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Flower purchases by males may mean they have other love interests, they feel guilty for something they've done, or they're doing, or they've screwed up.

Not judging, just including some other possibilities.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Regarding EBT cards, they're not hard to recognize in New York due to the large Benefit logo on the card and/or the pictures on newer cards.

WIC vouchers are large multiple paper checks which are easy to recognize, plus cashiers hold them up when checking each item, plus have to sign them.

Many EBT and WIC users also draw attention to themselves as they frequently attempt to purchase non qualified items.

Many EBT users also exceed their foodstamp and cash welfare limits, so the cashiers will ask them if they want to pay cash, or which items to put back.

Recently we were in line behind a WIC customer with multiple WIC vouchers that apologized as she was holding up the line.

Many customers get out their cards and vouchers while waiting in line as well.

Many people "notice things", not because they're nosey, but they're situationally aware.

May have worked in numerous stores and/or own a business so they notice the cards as well.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

The only thing I ever really take notice of on the conveyor belt in front of me are large amounts of alcohol... of course, I'd never ask if we're talking a party... or an alcoholic binge. ;-)


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Nancy: "The one woman who I like to pretend doesn't exist was at the Co-op this morning - or her car was because thankfully I didn't see her. Stickers plastered on all five surfaces: Chem Trails Kill; Look at the Sky; Ask Me About Chem Trails; Abolish the Federal Reserve (maybe she's not just a one-note samba)."

Let's see...okay to notice stickers on object of dislike's vehicle; not okay to notice what person in checkout line is actually doing. Say, I'm getting the hang of this...


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Noticing something about a person you know is far different than watching a strangers payment methods.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Most people aren't observant, or situationally aware, so they don't notice major events or changes, let alone small things.

Many have poor vision as well.

You'll see a lot more if you're taller as well.

Much of what you process depends on past experience, prior knowledge etc.

Last week a cashier placed a customer's bag on an elevated platform behind the bagging area, so the cashier, customer and several others in line in front of me didn't notice the bag as the customer walked away.

I spotted the customer walking off without her bag, so I grabbed it an ran it to the customer before she headed out the door.


Most People Are Not Observant


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 12:24

The only thing I ever really take notice of on the conveyor belt in front of me are large amounts of alcohol... of course, I'd never ask if we're talking a party... or an alcoholic binge. ;-)

*

SO you notice the "large amounts of alcohol" but no one else is supposed to notice the "large amounts" of ribs, brisket, copious bottles of orange and red soda and chips? That combination tends to get your attention, particularly in large amounts.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Noticing a large quantity of any item on a store checkout conveyor belt is hardly the same as noticing by which method a consumer is paying.

One would have to be more than just observant to key in on something as small and nondescript as a LINK card...


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Speaking of not being observant, we were at a barbecue recently where one of the male guests had these really long dirty creepy fingernails, he was missing one finger and had a concealed handgun tucked in his waistband.

My brother and I were the only ones to notice.

After talking about it later, many that had seen the guy on a regular basis for years, even decades couldn't believe they'd never noticed his long fingernails and missing finger.

To my brother and I the handgun stuck out like a sore thumb, however many don't notice these things.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

So you actually wouldn't notice if a person ran their card and the cashier told them that they didn't have enough on their card to pay for their purchase, and asked them if they wanted to put some of the items back? And you wouldn't notice if the customer in front of you stormed out of the store and left a basket of groceries sitting there? Wonder how some people don't get run over by a bus!


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Mrsk - the petty rants and stormings would be noticed; especially when they're designed to make the cashier look and feel badly. I don't think I've ever been behind someone in a line who did that, but wouldn't deny it happens.

About the only things I might notice in grocery stores is someone systematically peeling back the husks on corn to make sure the top two rows of kernels are perfectly formed, then throwing them back to pick out untouched ones. Or the person poking and prodding tomatoes; or the person hand sampling the olives from the deli bins; or the person letting their kid grab a few candies from the bulk dispensers; or the person eating the carton of salad from the salad bar while shopping then presenting the empty carton to the cashier for weighing at the checkout. Duh! I tend to chalk all that behavior up to entitled self-absorption and, fortunately, don't see much of it.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I notice payment methods. Very few people pay with cash. Checks take longer.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

On numerous occasions I've noticed coins mistaken for other denominations and/or possible rare and foreign coins used by customers.

I've also noticed when many customers and cashiers have made mistakes in cash exchanges, scanning, pricing, entry etc.

Recently a cashier forgot to ask a customer if they had a store discount/rewards card and/or scan the store's card. After I brought it to their attention they saved over $15, plus received rewards on their card.

Later the same day, I noticed an auto parts cashier was ordering the wrong part for another customer.

With so many poor performing cashiers these days you really have to pay close attention.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I may notice if someone used cash or cheque because it is so unusual...at least around here. However, I would never notice the "type" of plastic one used, credit, debit or other.

I do notice the contents of carts if they strike me as odd, like twenty packages of toilet tissue. In that case then I would ask if there is a sale I missed!

I will also be honest and say that should I be checking out behind a very obese person I am always intrigued by what's in their cart. None of my business but I do find myself curious.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Like I previously stated, I keep my e-reader in my bag for just those times when there are people to be intolerant of when there is line waiting to be done.
If I find my mind becoming judgemental concerning a person or group over a personal hot button issue which sometimes kicks into overdrive when all information needed for an educated negative reaction does not exist- then I can pull it out and stick my judgemental nose into that instead of locking in on something which is NOMB.. No one will ever have enough information available to them to be fairly, negatively judgemental over a snap card a stranger is using. Not ever.
We all have that tendency to some degree and in some area - what is meaningful is to become aware of it, be willing to at least self acknowledge it and then do what it takes to correct it, though it might be a lifetime of concerted effort. Everyone has weak points. The trick is to recognize them as weak rather than as a personal strength - and then deal with it.
Rob recently described a situation where she had every right to negatively judge another regarding tax based fraud because she was given very specific information by the most reliable source possible in order to come to that conclusion. I found myself in a situation too, with a person I spent a lot of time with, not such an obvious fraud but nevertheless, fraud. 1% of those on tax based aid are frauds.
So they certainly exist, but what is sad is to find myself on the lookout them, or for my own private hot buttons by watching or listening into conversations etc.etc. in order to find the snippets of info I need for the entertainment value my outrage affords to me. If the user of those small snap cards is such a hot issue personally that it will kick off the notice of what sort of payment method is used, that is the moment to very deliberately look completely elsewhere.
There is a virtual plethora of differing payment cards out there with an amazing difference in colors and types, one would have to deliberately look pretty hard to notice a specific card being used.
Waiting can be boring and sometimes an idle mind gets up to no good. Bringing a book that occupies the mind can help with that tendency.
If one's suspicious/ judgemental mind is at rest, then its better to keep fully aware of what is going on around you.

That said, although I agree that there could be any number of reasons why this woman appeared to behave the way she did when she had trouble with her payment card, Mrsk's reaction to the woman's *behavior* is understandable imo. There may be good reasons for poor public behavior such as what the woman demonstrated, but there isnt often good enough excuses for it.
It's been a long awhile now since Ive been out of our country for an extended period o time so I dont know how other societies may have changed for better or worse, but ours is one which has become very impulsive driven.
That is not a good thing, we see the price to be paid for our impulsive reactions almost every day in small ways, hear of those terrible prices paid every evening on our local news stations, even in small, quiet areas such as where Im now living.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

We frequently buy dozens or hundreds of the same items as there's a sale, we're stocking more than one large household, we're shopping for numerous others, or we're buying for entertaining and commercial purposes.

Other customers and cashiers certainly notice.

When I bought a large quantity of split chicken breast for 69 cents per pound recently, another customer saw my total was so low that she asked if it was on sale. She got out of line and headed back to the meat department.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

No, I've never really been that interested in how other shoppers are paying for their groceries. It would never occur to me to sidle that close and lean in to the person ahead of me.

The only reason I notice large amounts of alcohol is that I think to myself, "oh, they must be having a party or a cookout... how nice."

I'm consistently amazed at the inability to pick up on sarcasm and dry humor...


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

So you actually wouldn't notice if a person ran their card and the cashier told them that they didn't have enough on their card to pay for their purchase, and asked them if they wanted to put some of the items back? And you wouldn't notice if the customer in front of you stormed out of the store and left a basket of groceries sitting there? Wonder how some people don't get run over by a bus!

Do you really not understand? Of course most people would notice a customer acting rudely or making a scene. The point is I would not have noticed how that person was trying to pay for their purchase. The same thing could happen if they used a debit card and there was not enough $$ in the account to cover it. I would not have noticed they used a card that is supplied by the government. That's the point. You have to be paying very careful attention and noticing things that are not your business to know the credit card looking thingy she used to pay was anything other than a credit/debit card.

And, let's not forget that you went on to describe her manicured nails and pedicured toes and nice hair color and style. I guess once you saw that SNAP card because you were looking too closely at things that are not your business, you then had to really give her a good look to see what else you could criticize.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Flower purchases by males may mean they have other love interests, they feel guilty for something they've done, or they're doing, or they've screwed up.

Why am I not surprised that mark would bring up the downside to a man buying flowers? I am again reminded how happy I am that I don't live where you do.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

And, let's not forget that you went on to describe her manicured nails and pedicured toes and nice hair color and style. I guess once you saw that SNAP card because you were looking too closely at things that are not your business, you then had to really give her a good look to see what else you could criticize.

oh contraire jill. The young lady was quite attractive. Her manicure was excellent, her hair was thick with a wonderful cut and died a beautiful red, her makeup was perfect, she had on a lovely white linen shirt with perfectly fitting jeans and expensive sandals. I noticed her because she was so pretty and so well put together. I never noticed her SNAP card. I only saw her run a card and couldn't miss the exchange between her and the cashier, since my groceries were on the belt and I was waiting directly behind her.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I see nothing wrong with paying attention to how our tax money is spent.

At least those of us who pay income taxes.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Is it your assertion that people who pay no income tax should not pay attention to how tax dollars are spent?


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 16:27

Is it your assertion that people who pay no income tax should not pay attention to how tax dollars are spent?

*

No, it's just that I have found that people that don't have skin in the game, so to speak, don't seem to care too much about other people's money, unless they're trying to get their hands on it for themselves, redistribute it, or condemn them for having it in the first place.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

Not sure if you are talking about people here or elsewhere, but I don't understand how you know whether people have "skin in the game" or not.

Do you infer from their stance on certain social spending issues that they aren't tax payers?

I just don't understand how you make the connection between a persons status as a tax payer and their views on social spending.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 16:46

I don't look at other people's cards or checks etc. because there is so much identity theft now. Likewise I pay attention to how visible my stuff is when being used - there is even a problem with people scanning cell phones and wallets with electronic devices to get personal information. (Because of this one of my relatives bought a metal wallet so their cards couldn't be scanned). So I certainly don't stare at the cards and checks being used by other people when checking out. Staring at people who have not deliberately invited your focused attention is rude anyway, regardless of whatever part of them or their possessions may be of interest.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I see nothing wrong with paying attention to how our tax money is spent.

Of course monitoring the use of EBT is where the big waste in government is.

F-35 racked up $1.2 billion in cost overruns

... the total cost of the four contracts for 63 planes was $12.28 billion -- 10.9 percent more than the amount awarded under the original contracts. The government's share of the total overrun is about $756 million under the sharing incentive provisions included in the contracts, with Lockheed (NYSE: LMT) presumably footing the rest of the bill. [...]

Beyond cost overruns, the program incurred about $900 million to rework the aircraft -- adding about $15.5 million to the price of each of the 58 purchased jets. An additional $827 million is expected to be spent reworking aircraft purchased in the next six annual contracts, according to the report. [...]

Total investment is nearing $400 billion to develop and procure 2,457 aircraft through 2037, the GAO reported, with an average annual funding requirement of $12.6 billion.


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RE: A rant for people that judge others.

I found this bboy even though you probably get two of those metal wallets for the price of one and add only the additional postage and handling.

MarketWatch says: "If you have two cards with RFID chips in your wallet, the scanner can't read them because they confuse the information and cancel each other out."

And, "If you're still worried about getting ripped off by someone invading your space with a notepad-like scanner, here's a tried-and-true precautionary move: Put a piece of aluminum foil in your wallet."

(But only if Goldman, JPMorgan Chase, and Morgan Stanley cut loose some of that aluminum.)


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