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Porn & Internet Addiction

Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 10:03

It's not such a hot topic on it's own & often it makes people squirm.

From an article in the Atlantic in June.
This was primarily written about men & porn!

the average age a U.S. child is first exposed to porn is 11 according to Family Safe Media, though others claim it's closer to 14. According to Norton Family, of 3.5 million web searches in 2009 by kids, the sixth most commonly searched term was "porn." For children younger than eight, it was the fourth most commonly searched term.

"Clearly, many like me started watching porn when they were barely pubescent, and researchers assert that there's a correlation between early porn use and sexual compulsion problems down the road.

According to a 2009 survey of 30,000 college students, over 10 percent of U.S male students are estimated to be heavy porn users (five to 20 hours per week), and 62 percent of college guys watch some Internet porn each week. In a 2007 study by researchers at Brigham Young University, 21 percent of all college students reported watching porn "every day or almost every day.

As adults, the problems may persist. At the 2003 American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers meeting, two-thirds of lawyers reported that compulsive Internet use played a significant role in divorces over that year, and 56 percent of those divorce cases included a partner who had an obsessive interest in pornographic websites. Eight years earlier, pornography had played almost no role in divorce.

And as a country, we watch a lot of porn -- 40 million people visit a porn site at least once a month (that's about one in eight Americans). And as an Internet populace, 25 percent of our search engine requests and an astounding 35 percent of our downloads are for porn.

While some studies that have surveyed the population at large conclude that Internet porn's not much of a problem, it's important to note that the percentage of Internet porn "addicts" is much higher in at-risk populations: young, Internet-connected men. (75 to 85 percent of Internet porn users are men).

Patrick Carnes Out of the Shadows or In The Shadows of the net might be interesting reading for anyone who is even slightly curious about what sex or porn addiction might be.

There is also a site called NO FAP take the challenge any of you secret porn addicts.
FAP is masturbation!

Or here are the 14 Characteristics from Sexual Compulsive's Anonymous (these were arrived at by the earliest members of this program)

Anyone out there ever fake an orgasm?
I know several women who regard that as cheating!

Once illegal in a number of states Trojan INC listed sales of $1 Billion in vibrators in 2011 twice their condom sales.

It may not be love but it can be a problem in some relationships when the toy is preferred to the partner.

Is that cheating?

Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Maybe not a hot topic, but you have to admit, kind of warm lol. Don't you think the internet has caused an increase in porn addiction? At one time Playboy and Hustler were about the easiest to obtain and even then, some men didn't want to be seen purchasing them. And then of course, teens found dads stash so they were even more limited. Finally, women had Playgirl, and I don't even know if that's still in publication.Now, it's the click of a mouse.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

The continued easy access to porn and the chemical rewards in the brain are a difficult tide to swim in for many.

That you chose Hustler & Playboy already shows a defense that this is a male issue.

So many chatrooms are filled with women every night they don't have to go out to bars or clubs & think of themselves in "those terms"
They can always leave & claim I didn't know it was that kind of room I was just there for friendly chats. A good number of them will also return & they may say it's about looking for companionship (that may be the idea in their head but what just might bring them back again & again is the chemical brain reward. It might even take a couple of years
Perhaps the alone time with her fantasies & vibrator is more easy to deal with more pleasurable, relaxing less demanding than the guy she truly loves but just isn't all that comfortable within bed anymore.
(I know a good number of them & it's very difficult for them to come up with just whats no longer there anymore and why they feel so guilty & secretive about their alone time)

Dopamine can be effected by a hug a kiss a memory a fantasy looking at porn a good grade, couple that together with imagery either in fantasy or on a screen & the mirror neurons kick in.
Norepinephrine, oxytocin, seratonin also play in building to an orgasm & mapping a pleasurable experience.

"The major effect ofincreased prolactin is a decrease in normal levels of sex hormones & estrogen in women and
testosterone in men

People addicted to masturbation often report higher incidence of shame & depression which then can be relieved by the cycle of more masturbation but that all take time time time to develop and often looks so unconnected to everything as it develops
Little headaches, being unable to focus, anxiety most people never connect them with their last chat room experience, porn viewing experience or masturbation session but with someone on their ways to a problem they are ofen relieved with another session and another flood of brain chemistry.
This is very oversimplified and it is still relatively a new field but it's all there.

Women and sex addiction often gets mixed in with romance addiction which complicates things even further as our society elevates LOVE to a scared state.

That search for LOVE often mask anger aggression, sexual dysfunction, previous sex abuse and becomes an often used method of denial among people with sex problems whose focus becomes romance!

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Oh, good God. Porn. I guess I am the only middle aged guy in America who has never watched porn. I posted that a year ago on another discussion forum and was called a liar and prude. I was brought up believing it was immoral, somehow dirty. I know it has a role/purpose. I guess my biggest concern would be with the industry - I guess it can be very exploitative of the "talent".

I also posted recently on another forum about my concerns over an adult novelties shop which opened in my community, likewise called a prude.

Almost anything can become an addiction, I guess only a problem if it interferes with life. I have a day lily addiction, about 200 varieties, but it is pretty harmless.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

That's ok denninmi, had no idea that women were all that in to porn. Learn something new everyday on HT. btw...I have a flat of daylily seedlings that I started last year that I need to plant out, and about a hundred seeds that I need to flat up from my crosses this year.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Porn sex addiction most people when questioned in a live group will never admit to masturbating. Sex porn use masturbation tends to be secretive & shameful.
Most people don't consider their private masturbation fantasies porn use there are some really strict programs that do not permit masturbation and entertaining fantasies while engaging in sex with your spouse would be considered sliding back into addictive behaviors.

Theresa Flynt, vice president of marketing for Hustler video, says that women account for 56 percent of business at her company's video stores. "And the female audience is increasing," as are the number of women executives in the multi billion dollar porn industry.

I was watching a scene on True Blood the other night and thought gee in 1974 that would have gotten a NYC theater shut down as porn even though it was only a simulated sex scene.

There are several things being spoken to here definitions, chemistry & social acceptability of one form of behavior over another.
Sex & sexual insecurity sells.

Why is it thought remarkable that someone has never looked at porn?
I know some people find it remarkable that many Americans never drink 22% don't.

I might find it remarkable that someone might never have been aroused by a movie scene or TV scene or fantasy about someone other that their own partner or spouse.
Dreams rarely edit or have inhibitions.

So it becomes a degree of use or abuse, an inability to moderate without help medical or spiritual, a change in brain mapping & cultural definitions passes & scapegoats.

There's a current crowd out there of organizations trying to sell recovery from unwanted homosexual desires. OK what most offer these days is not conversion to heterosexuality they have given up on that for the most part. They are offering abstinence programs & support and a paradigm that says homosexuality is aberrant which most US professionals today would say is hogwash.

Who gets to decide.
Is it cheating to think of someone other that your spouse or partner while masturbating or having sex with them. How common is it? How much shame does it involve? Does it mean you have sexual issues ! Is it a gateway to deeper problems?

Here is a link that might be useful: Women in the World

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I don't think that Weiner has an addiction. It is just an excuse for his bad behavior.


RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I wish u could stay on the topic!~

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I would consider cheating to be behavior which involves excessively emotional or sexual behavior with another person physically or electronically. A porn magazine does not fit any of that, but internet interaction certainly could, such as Anthony W's behavior.

I would imagine that an addiction that presents itself as W's behavior does could be incredibly difficult to contain according to all the variables you have talked about. I dont know that as a spouse I would be up to the task of staying after I had it explained to me because of all the broken promises which surrounds exposure, therapy and the expected slips that must be dealt with. I would imagine it to be an especially painful and humiliating addiction for the addict and the spouse, certainly in this country.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

As far as if fantasy about another other than your partner during sex being cheating, no.

My take on it:
I would feel sorry for anyone who considers it to be cheating as I suspect they wish for a type of Disneyland sort of relationship that doesnt exist in the human world, and even sorrier for their partner for all the lying they would have to reconcile themselves to if it became an issue between them.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Well calling out that other persons name at the height of the moment has been grounds for comedy & tragedy!
Some folks insist virtual sex is not sex at all & that flirting is not the same as Internet (intriguing)! Intriguing may not involve any sex at all but involves visiting ambiguous chat rooms where heavy duty flirting
& texting goes on! Dating sites that are little more than hook up spots for sex. The person has no intention of hooking up but gets validation from those on line by flirting with them or engaging in intimate sexy chats!
That validation creates the same sense of well being/pleasure/self worth the high general sense of well being can last for hours.

This post was edited by labrea on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 17:09

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 17:13

Existing tendencies facilitated by technology.

This post was edited by bboy on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 17:14

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

The big cable ad running here is "Anastasiadate". A lovely blond woman frolicking on a beach, on a yacht deck lounge chair while the guy on the other side of the computer screen "feels so connected" even though thousands of miles apart. He's wearing a white sport jacket (or at least the sleeve of one) and fingering the stem of a glass of red wine.

I'm betting this blond beauty is a stevedore in Toledo charging Mr. Whitesleeve a bundle per minute.

The internet brings this right to wherever you are; so accessible with the click of a mouse. No leaving the house for magazine stands or other adult venues. I think the only hard core type movie I've ever seen was Guccione's Caligula and this was decades ago.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Mnnn probably right there I' not a fan of the idea of an addictive personality but I sure do love so many of the studies on brain chemistry & arousal templates.
Some sex addicts are all about fantasy, some are about real sex without the romance, some are paraphelia oriented (fetishes) some are deluded that they are looking for true love (inventory the factors involved & it often is an impossible situation dressed up as romance) Some are about covert anger & aggression & self hatred and then there's sexual anorexia. Most are a mixed bag & the privacy of being at home makes it seem easy,
It's not like I'm hanging out in bars or sex clubs I've heard both men & women use that as a defense.
Some recovery programs require strict behavior modification others ask the addict to set up their own sex plans after taking serious honest inventories of behaviors, & patterns of sexual acting out. Working with a trained therapist is also highly recommended.
I find recovering sex addicts just as critical as anyone else of each others foibles & failings.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Seems pretty judgmental of others' sexuality to me, always a red flag to me when I see people and policy makers telling people committing no crime what to do with their private parts.

If you're going to reference Reddit's NoFap subforum, why not also mention their far more popular subforum, RedditGoneWild, where hundreds of young women express their sexuality daily by showing their nude bodies to strangers online encouraging them to fap and then send them private msgs. Millenians split strangely on this, some are the most openly sexual youth ever - beyond the 60s - and some are almost monistic and removed from human contact.

Is this really the model you're advocating, Labrea?

Relapse after 61 days (self.NoFap)

submitted 29 minutes ago by NoFapOverlord1 day

It was all over in a few seconds after taking a few glimpses, and holy ship, I could have flooded the room. No pleasure really or anything, I can feel the regret already. I wish I hadn't done that..............:/............fuq me.. how can i be so stupid.. Porn is the enemy here. It will deceive you when you are in your weakest moment. Stay away from this mindless artificial pleasure forever. There's no end to it.

That's it, man, no more of this bullship. I must go NoFap for 100+ days and probably never masturbate again.

Just needed to get this off my chest.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Labrea, I had an interesting conversation today about Weiner and sexual addictions with a neighbor who is a therapist affiliated with NYU Med Center and treats this amongst other things. Very similar to what you have stated.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Mrs: "Don't you think the internet has caused an increase in porn addiction?"

No, I don't. That's like saying alcohol causes alcoholism. Or motor vehicles cause reckless driving.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I don't know how you picked that up
When I wrote
Some recovery programs require strict behavior modification others ask the addict to set up their own sex plans after taking serious honest inventories of behaviors, & patterns of sexual acting out. Working with a trained therapist is also highly recommended.

I haven't advocated anything other than post information in light of the savage jamboree going on over Weiner!

I have no opinion on anyone personal behavior or how they conduct their sex lives. I live in an open relationship & have for the last 20 years.

There is no cookie cutter approach for anyone who is looking for a solution to their own self diagnosed sex problems.
I am a recovering sex addict!

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

labrea, thank you for the list; it helps me see a bit into the 'why' of this particular addiction. I read some Susan Cheever where she writes of her addiction, but I don't remember coming away with as much understanding as your list provides. (My understanding is very incomplete, for sure.)

9. We searched for some "magical" quality in others to make us feel complete.

This seems to be part of so much entertainment - movies, pop songs and musicals, books. Part of growing up and being ready for an emotionally mature relationship is ditching this false notion implanted by the entertainment industry.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

True elvis, but how healthy is it for an alcoholic to hang out in a bar?

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

"True elvis, but how healthy is it for an alcoholic to hang out in a bar?"

Can be healthy; depends on the individual. It might be boring; it might be instructive. Or not. That discussion (substance dependency) deserves its own thread, IMO.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Some of the best bar tenders are recovering or recovered alcoholics. Bill Wilson insisted on not shielding alcoholics from alcohol,
For people who have issues with sex (by their own determinations or a courts determination or a professional opinion) Learning what those issues are & what is known as the arousal template can be a useful tool. .
I know guys who have minimal reaction to porn but certain obsessive thoughts can build like Tsunami and occupy a good part of their day.

I know a woman who spent an entire afternoon across from a romantic obsessions apartment just to see if he was still in NY even though she new he was working on a film in Canada. Like an OCD it drove her to leave her very ordered life (take time off work) to do this.. End result she spent a week berating herself for this behavior for stalking, for being so desperate, for every other manner of crap she could call herself.
She had reacted to this man like a drug she had behavioral changes that she found humiliating (others would say oh that's ok it was no big thing) for her it wasn't a first time event. She always became insecure engaged in behavior that left her in danger neglected her own life & her friends & her work.
Oh yes he was married (they were always married) there were almost always scenes with wives discovering her
(Lots of drama).

She came from a family of many mixed messages on sex she had unrealistic puritanical views about sex that didn't quite match up with these episodes in her life. Her therapist told her that 12 step recovery might be a helpful supplement to her individual therapy.

Arousal Template Types often used in treatment!

Voyeuristic Sex- arousal is derived from using visual stimulation to escape into fantasy
Fantasy Sex- arousal is derived from obsessing over mental images of what is sexually possible
Seductive Role Sex- arousal is derived from achieving “conquest” within a relationship
Exhibitionistic Sex- arousal is derived from the reaction received from those viewing you exposing yourself
Paying for Sex- arousal is derived from the connection formed between money and sex
Trading Sex- arousal is derived from using sex as leverage to gain control
Intrusive Sex- arousal is derived from violating the boundaries of others
Anonymous Sex- arousal is derived from immediate sexual satisfaction without emotional obligation with another
Pain Exchange Sex- arousal is derived from being hurt and/or humiliated while also being sexual
Exploitive Sex- arousal is derived from sexually exploiting those you believe are more vulnerable than you*
These types were developed from Dr. Patrick Carnes, which appear in Facing the Shadows, and are widely accepted by sex addiction treatment professionals as meaningful categories capable of informing a sex addict and his/her own support system about how they are to develop a personalized treatment plan.

Elvis when I was 11 I didn't have access to Gigs of pornography on line to desensitize me. There weren't hundreds of chat rooms for me to create my arousal template in and be subjected to all manner of psycho sexual aggression.

I love this little movie clip it's from the film SHAME I've know people who claim it's like LOST WEEKEND for sex addicts.

This is a subtle & not so subtle scene
I have yet to meet a recovering sex addict who isn't overwhelmed by the depths of their own toxic shame. So much of it unearned by anything they have ever done.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shame

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Okay; watched the clip. Are we gonna discuss it now? ;-)

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

gee Elvis I'm not sure my ankles still haven't healed from some of our previous CHATS!

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Most series that are on Showtime, HBO, etc. have as close to porn scenes as you can get, such as Breaking Bad, The Tudors, The Borgias, Damages, Tremendous, the list is endless...

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I watched it - how come no expensively well dressed good looking man has never attempted to follow me, all I ever got were scary looking, ratty looking men! *LOL*
Ive never seen the movie, I will have to watch for it. But from what you have explained I can now understand your reaction to the forum's reacion to W - although I still cant understand why he would run for office knowing that he had some recent slips since the expose - why his wife would support that decision? I REALLY dont get that. Surely his ( their) therapist advised against such a decision? That, I do get judge-y over him.
May for her, she supported this choice as she is desperate to have him feeling fulfilled career wise so that the addiction will be more easily managed since things are obviously not going as she would certainly have hoped.

I dont know anymore about sex addition than you have told us about here, but I would agree that it sounds like a flat horrible addiction accompanied by a terrible, deep shame which would exist particularly in this country since so many are brought up in such a way as to insure a screwed up outcome. I dont mean that as a slam against parents who are doing their best, that was what they thought to be the right way to do it. I was most certainly messed up about it coming from an all girls catholic school high school years with parents who never had any sort of direct talk with us - I was of the personality of taking in and believing the innuendo which that sort of schooling, the religion and the background intended me to take away from it. Bad, bad bad but once you are married - hearts and flowers...poof! Instant ( proper) physical feelings and emotions, magically, just like that.

Mr. M grew up in southern California, with too much freedom. He always claimed he had no hangups nor certainly much guilt, but I never quite bought into it and felt that there was a happy medium somewhere we both missed. I intended to try hard to bring my children up with what I imagine was a happy medium but in retrospect I realize that in the end all that meant to me was that we had frequent discussions with my son about his responsibility to practice birth control which also protected him from diseases, I was heavy on always showing and feeling respect for all girls. Of course that was incredibly important but so much more to it - I never told him to wait until a specific time...because unless he was like his father who was imo much too young, I preferred to advise him to wait until he felt he loved the girl. Probably stupid advise, better given to a female child over a male child.
It was a torturous discussion time for me, my husband had talks with him also but he wasnt sure of himself, either. My husband's main concern was that our son fully grasp what pregnancy would mean to the rest of his life. We both probably screwed it up so much, I wish there were good night classes offered to parents which helped to deal with these and other issues about their children. I feel certain that with advertisement, such classes would be a success.

Joe, it's probably an unanswerable question, but do you think that when suddenly confronted with a partner's sex addition, because of this electronic age do you believe that if there are no children involved a spouse would be better off getting out of the marriage? I felt I sounded like an unsympathetic person when I said I probably would - but this is one which might involve for a spouse a feeling of inadequacy, but also the trust issue would be an incredible stumbling block. The computer and often the internet is necessary to every working person. I dont know how that could work for me if my spouse were sex addicted. I dont frankly know how it could work for him, either. Its like an oxycodone addict working in an oxycodone lab - how could that bring about a positive conclusion and how could the partner be expected to believe it if, in fact, the addict remained clean?
Perhaps Im not grasping that it is not so different than other addictions? I see it as very different as it is not chemically introduced by the addict, but directly induced by the damage they brought with as the behavior became an addiction.

I would have thought of this as more of an obsession but does it make a difference, once the brain chemistry has been altered in a way where it no longer works as designed, its all addiction to me anyway.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I'm the last person to ask I've always lived in an open relationship that didn't require fidelity. I require affection & companionship & expression of love as does my partner.

Families & loved ones if they wish to continue relating to a person undergoing treatment might want to consider this.

"Sexual acting-out can be defined as any form of sexual behavior whose primary function is to avoid uncomfortable feelings and other facts. The acting-out behavior is driven by the attempt to keep difficult feelings and memories from awareness. Paradoxically, acting-out is the symbolic, veiled, indirect way by which those feelings and memories are given expression. The sixty year old man re-enacts the torment and humiliation he endured as an abused child by hiring a prostitute to beat him. Less dramatically, the forty year old man who was not adequately affirmed and adored as a young child seeks to make up for that through multiple affairs as an adult. A thirty year old client finds herself unable to say no to the men who hit on her even though she is not physically attracted to them and finds herself repulsed by them. In her inner work, she discovers that she had no possibility of saying no to her coercive and abusive father.

The hallmark of sex addiction is continued performance of the sexual acting-out behavior in spite of continued and often progressive negative consequences. Intellectual insight alone is insufficient for one to be freed from addiction, from the repeated compulsion to act-out sexually. The acting-out defense has become so habitual and the pleasurable release so intense that the sex addict goes there with near-automatic consistency through most hours of the day".

In almost every recovery program there are the 3 A's awareness acceptance & action.
Awareness needs to develop it doesn't happen over night, Acceptance is vital denial bargaining & excuse making get a recovering person nowhere & action might require daily maintenance. Inventory taking, work with a professional work with others either in group setting or reaching out to people by phone or internet when there is stress or the sense that trouble ,,might be brewing.

There can be disengaging, coexisting, engaging & proactive participation on a partners part (in therapy or programs like alanon, codependents anonymous, or other programs like SMART Recovery that do not utilize a 12 step approach.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gentle Pathways

This post was edited by labrea on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 23:23

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

In my opinion, not everything can be labeled an addiction or a disease... and I think some of this labeling gives people the excuses they're looking for where poor behaviors are concerned, and where people want to continue with such behaviors. It gives people an out where morality, willpower, or... and I've come to detest this phrase, but... personal responsibility is concerned.

I've never cared for porn, myself, and it's not my husband's thing, either... though if that's what trips your trigger, more power to ya. We've always had open channels and unlocked internet in our home, and no one is interested in it. Those channels are just passed over. Though, we were never the type of parents that hid anything, forbid anything, or promoted anything as taboo.

If people speak up and let their partners know what they want, there's no need to fake anything. If you have to resort to faking, something is very wrong.

I think if you enjoy sex alone or with toys without your chosen partner, something is very wrong. You might want to rethink that partner.

Is that cheating? Is watching porn, using toys, faking orgasms, or anything that only involves oneself cheating? No. But you are certainly cheating yourself out of a good relationship.

Cheating is when another person is involved, unbeknown to your partner. That's infidelity. I don't understand it... how hard is it to be honest with one's partner? And if you can't be, what sort of relationship do you really have?

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Thanks Jodik!
We must agree to disagree again on addiction.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I think some of this labeling gives people the excuses they're looking for where poor behaviors are concerned, and where people want to continue with such behaviors. It gives people an out

There's also the possibility that hearing that the behaviour is an addiction, with definitions, descriptions, etc. the individual will realize that there is help and others who are struggling with the same destructive patterns.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Hetero middle aged and older men, for the most part (and this includes our former President Jimmy Carter) sometimes look "with lust in their hearts" at women other than their spouses, and in particular, at shapely younger women. Let's call them dirty old men (DOM) for the sake of conversation. Internet statistics prove that an enormous volume of DOM are viewing on-line porn. Not every one of them suffer from Portnoy's complaint and if anything, the release of sexual energy probably makes them less aggressive and prone to destructive behavior.

I am neither condoning masturbation (although it kind of sounds that way) nor condemning it. I am just saying that it is what it is and that the statistics don't lie. Therefore if you have an issue with it you have an issue with a lot of men who either admit to watching it or maybe are just lying.

As far as trying to equate masturbation with infidelity, that is absurd. Ask yourself if given a hypothetical alternative, you would rather have your spouse masturbate or be off cheating with another person.

This post was edited by heri_cles on Sat, Jul 27, 13 at 2:07

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I know, Joe... we can amicably disagree on this... it's just how I feel about some of the labels placed on certain things these days... personally, I think some things are deserving of different labels, though I'm not entirely certain what they should be. I tend to think of them as a slightly different class of "addictions".

But what astounds me are the vast numbers of people who make commitments to be exclusive to a singular partner, knowing it's not within them to keep such a commitment. Infidelity is quite rampant within our society.

Honesty is extremely important to me, and if I tell you I'm exclusive, then that's exactly what I am. If I didn't think I could manage being exclusive, I would mention that. It's important. There's no reason to enter into a commitment only to break it and end up hurting the other person.

I don't like fake anything, either... and I don't think of such things as pornography or adult toys or masturbation as taboo subjects. They're simply not things I'm interested in as a singular person. I think they're just fine if you're sharing the experience with your partner.

With a divorce rate still hovering at around 50%, I'd say human beings are doing something wrong in the relationship department. But I think it has a lot more to do with honesty, with trust and communication, with the general building blocks of a good relationship.

And then again, there are many different types of relationships... couples, both hetero and homosexual... people who like to include others temporarily, as in swingers... those who have multiple committed relationships, as in poly-amorous... or those who choose to marry more than one woman, or man, as in polygamous... and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

If any of those relationships are preferable, that's just fine... as long as everyone within that relationship knows the boundaries and expectations. This requires open communication, trust, honesty...

I would have to say, though, that if one partner PREFERS pornography and masturbation to sexual encounters with his or her partner... Houston, we have a problem.

But is that cheating? Not in my interpretation of cheating. But it's also not healthy, and not conducive to a healthy relationship with a partner or partners.

I think there are a lot of things that can suck a person in, like video game playing, because it's enjoyable. It takes one away from their responsibilities and daily stresses, and it makes one forget about them for the time they're involved in the game... it may act upon the pleasure center of the brain, causing dopamine to be released... but I still think this class of "addictions" should be labeled using another term... they don't quite fit in the picture of addiction to actual substances.

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I understood you all the previous times you have written about your ideas. They are your ideas not the field of science or psychiatry that I was writing about.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Cool. It's good to know that we're on the same page... sometimes that's not the case on HT.

The insert you placed in your original post did not initially show up when I read it. I was visiting with family for the past several days, and only had access to a laptop for a very short time. For some reason, the browser did not allow that part to be viewed.

I must say, I'm not a big fan of 12 step programs... I think that, oftentimes, parameters can be a lot wider, and causes and reasoning can be different. I think that each person is an individual, and we should look at and treat some issues individually. I don't think it's completely accurate to pin down everyone's problems, how or why they developed, or how they're treated in such a concrete way.

I also see "God" mentioned... which doesn't speak to all of society... nor does it speak to the science involved.

However, I know you're a proponent of these programs, and if something works for "you"... the general you... then it can't be all bad, can it?

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"Good orderly Direction". I'm a non theist & have used 12 step methodology not orthodoxy as there is no such thing for 36 years now.
Bill Wilson wrote an appendix Spiritual recovery means a personality change sufficient enough to bring about recovery some of our membership call that God Consciousness..

There are thousands of atheists & non theists in various 12 step recovery programs getting hung up on a word or someone else concept is like arguing over which hand someone is going to hand you a Milion dollars or your life!

This post was edited by labrea on Sat, Jul 27, 13 at 11:53

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I am surprised that the idea of masturbation would be considered in a negative light .at all these days. From everything I have ever read it is a part of ( especially the male)the normal whole of human sexual make up and even so normal as to be expected within a very happy, contented marriage.
It is the norm of especially male sexuality , although it did take awhile to accept this is as fact. I just didnt understand it, but by the mid 80's I had come to realize that it was normal, having nothing to do with me or our relationship at all. In a relationship, if masturbation negatively affected the physical part of the relationship I would guess there would be a problem but the amount of sexual relations ebb and flow as a norm anyway, according to health, stress, hormone ...for a variety of reasons on the part of both people, without being a sign of anything at all regarding the relationship.

I am surprised that your open relationship has worked out Joe, from everything I have ever read, it's *extremely* rare that relationships survive such a plan, but it could certainly render the notion of sexting others to be not to be much of a deal to the relationship as a whole.

An open relationship or sexting others would not work in mine and Im afraid it would not be in my make up to have much patience with repeated slips should my Mr. have been discovered involved as .Wiener has been. I would get past it if he and we entered into therapy immediately but I know myself well enough to know that slips would unlikely be tolerated with this particular addiction - I could probably get past a limited amount of slips from some other addiction, but not this one. I couldn't tell you exactly why that is, though.

Thanks for this thread Joe, in this thread I have learned so much about a subject I knew and understood absolutely nothing about.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

It could only be a negative if it affects were negative & only the person affected would have to make that determination
Did they risk their job to go masturbate, did they risk arrest in order to masturbate in a public setting even if no one could see them (I'm not speaking about exhibitionism here) people who need/require/ are habituated to a sense of danger & anxiety as a co factor for events like this.
( Pleasure is rarely the outcome of this kind of event there may be relief but there is usually either emptiness or a sense of profound shame. (Why not stop?) That would be rational by it's very nature this is not a cognitive rational process.
If you anyone is going to speak about OCD's then you need to know the c means c in that statement there may be almost no or limited inhibition or sense of control. The person has reached an out of control state in this regard.
They may be extremely orderly & controlled in so many other aspect of their lives.
These down times may be periodic episodic or occupy hours of time,
The addictive aspect again is the build up & release of chemicals & hormones.

The other aspect I offered was masturbation as a form of isolation where the partner prefers their solitary times over sharing affection & sex relations with their partner.

Or if single why should I even bother trying to relate to anyone else.

There's is a comic line on WILL & Grace where Karen

" Oh, honey. Black, white, gay, straight--What's the difference? We all finish ourselves off in the end anyway."

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I'm not arguing any point in particular... just pointing out that God is mentioned, which I find a little odd in today's general social landscape.

There's a short one-liner that goes: "when it's a small load, you do it by hand." ;-)

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

There's a wonderful monologue in the Play Cloud 9
A Rather Conservative seeming Victorian mother Betty is now separate form her husband & has just incurred the disdainful forbearance of her children.
They leave the stage she sits in a tweed suit, a vision of middle age propriety.

"I used to think Clive was the one who liked sex. But then I found I missed it. I used to touch myself when I was very little, I thought I’d invented something wonderful. I used to do it to go to sleep with or to cheer myself up, and one day it was raining and I was under the kitchen table, and my mother saw me with my hand under my dress rubbing away, and she dragged me out so quickly I hit my head and it bled and I was sick, and nothing was said, and I never did it again till this year. I thought if Clive wasn’t looking at me there wasn’t a person there. And one night in bed in my flat I was so frightened I started touching myself. I thought my hand might go through into space. I touch my face, it was there, my arm, my breast, and my hand sent down where I thought it shouldn’t, and I thought well there is somebody there. It felt very sweet, it was a feeling from very long ago, it was very soft, just barely touching and I felt myself gathering together more and more and I felt angry with Clive and angry with my mother and I went on and on defying them, and there was this vast feeling growing in me and all around me and they couldn’t stop me and no one could stop me and I was there and coming and coming. Afterwards I thought I’d betrayed Clive. My mother would kill me. But I felt triumphant because I was a separate person from them. And I cried because I didn’t want to be. But I don’t cry about it any more. Sometimes I do it three times in one night and it really is great fun".

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

You mention that the the C in ocd does, after all, mean compulsive ( or did I mention it?) and there may be almost no - or at least limited inhibition or or any sense of control, or might be completely out of control.

If that is the case, would the person then be completely aware that he/she is doing something completely unacceptable and grasp the danger to him/herself by this behavior - or would the person be so driven that they * must* behave this way, simply going on hope that they wont be discovered? So complicated....

I could only assume that their partner would be aware that something was somehow amiss, but Im so uneducated/ignorant on this whole subject that I probably shouldnt assume anything at all.

It strikes me that this would be incredibly difficult to treat successfully, especially if the person him/herself didnt see it as a big deal but wanted to change only those around him did. But I cant imagine that could be the case.

Im blessed. So many people with huge problems.

However, dragging Wiener back into this discussion, it surprises me that he did run for public office *knowing* he had recent history yet again with the texting - I would have thought the damage to his relationship but especially the deep public humiliation he suffered just last year would have made the thought of running for any public office something he would never have considered. And the name he chose for himself, it strikes me as a thumbing of his nose to society.
I wonder if that guy down south who went for a hike- in Argentina - to see his girlfriend, then ran for office yet again, and WON ?!? could have given Wiener the idea that sexual misbehavior was one the people are now willing to overlook.

Fair or not, there is a difference between acquiring a girlfriend ( on the public dime, no less) and sexting, as far as public perception goes.

I dont suppose you would venture a guess as to why he decided to run, knowing his recent texting would be exposed, yet again?
Personally, it kind of leaves me with the impression that it is a bigger deal to the public than it is to him. I guess what I think doesnt count since he would not be representing me, though.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Again not a professional but that's a big ego like a lot of politicians. Most addicts I've known no matter what the addiction tend to have a lot of narcissistic damage.

I couldn't tell you if someone was comparing their sexcapades with someone else. What difference could it make in the long run.

"Sexual addiction can be viewed as an adaptive attempt to regulate mood and tolerate stressors through the abuse of intensely stimulating sexual fantasy and behavior. It is believed that sexual addiction is a dysfunctional adult response to innate personality, character or emotional regulatory deficits, as well as a reaction to early attachment disorders, abuse and trauma.

In order for the diagnosis of sex addiction to be made, professionals must first rule out concurrent drug abuse, as well as those major mental health disorders that also include hypersexuality as a symptom. Examples of these include bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder and adult attention deficit disorder, all of which have hypersexual or impulsive sexual behavior as a potential symptom. Some individuals may have both a major mental disorder and sexual addiction, both of which need to be addressed, much as one might be both alcoholic and bipolar."

It's a big broad field to say yes or no to practically so many things.

I'm thinking of the Ensign affair. Ensign employed the husband & the wife the woman he had an affair with. He had buddy Rick Santorum try to protect him.
& there wasn't the near hysteria going as there is over someone who it seems may never have even met one of his corespondents face to face.

Here is a link that might be useful: More of the same

This post was edited by labrea on Sun, Jul 28, 13 at 9:09

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

I'm 17 and I started when I was 16 and now I wish I didn't. However I limit my self to twice a week and the sessions don't last long.

RE: Porn & Internet Addiction

Good for you. That is strong self control for a 17 year old.

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