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We are what we hear?

Posted by esh_ga z7 GA (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 14:57

How many folks are politically oriented based on what they soak up every day?

Jonathan Krohn took the political world by storm at 2009's Conservative Political Action Conference when, at just 13 years old, he delivered an impromptu rallying cry for conservatism that became a viral hit and had some pegging him as a future star of the Republican Party.

Now 17, Krohn - who went on to write a book, "Defining Conservatism," that was blurbed by the likes of Newt Gingrich and Bill Bennett - still watches that speech from time to time, but it mostly makes him cringe because, well, he's not a conservative anymore.

"I started reflecting on a lot of what I wrote, just thinking about what I had said and what I had done and started reading a lot of other stuff, and not just political stuff," Krohn said. "I started getting into philosophy - Nietzsche, Wittgenstein, Kant and lots of other German philosophers. And then into present philosophers - Saul Kripke, David Chalmers. It was really reading philosophy that didn't have anything to do with politics that gave me a breather and made me realize that a lot of what I said was ideological blather that really wasn't meaningful. It wasn't me thinking. It was just me saying things I had heard so long from people I thought were interesting and just came to believe for some reason, without really understanding it. I understood it enough to talk about it but not really enough to have a conversation about it."

I know I've changed over time and I know others here have said they've changed too. I wish more people could truly take time and effort to understand more about politics, their true feelings and what each party really means for them.

"One of the first things that changed was that I stopped being a social conservative," said Krohn. "It just didn't seem right to me anymore. From there, it branched into other issues, everything from health care to economic issues.... I think I've changed a lot, and it's not because I've become a liberal from being a conservative - it's just that I thought about it more. The issues are so complex, you can't just go with some ideological mantra for each substantive issue."

Would that the whole country could grow until they really understood for themselves what they stood for. I think how people are elected would really change if that happened (and no, I'm not saying that I think everyone would become liberal!).

Here is a link that might be useful: source


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: We are what we hear?

esh, don't you think we all change and evolve over time? I know I was a liberal for years and years and have slowly become more and more conservative especially fiscally. Was everyone always wedded to one political party?


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RE: We are what we hear?

I am a fiscal conservative and pretty much social liberal.

I have come to these places after decades of living, experience, and observing human nature and reading.

I have not been exposed to any particular political party and do not ascribe to any one news source, but several regularly and others occasionally.

I think like I do because I think, not because anyone told me anything.

I don't and never have stood for anyone telling me what to do and how to think.

It's quite easy to see the bias in people and in news organizations. It was easy to see the bias in pastors and it was easy to see the bias in liberal college professors.

It's not difficult to see through people and therefore take what they say with a grain of salt.


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RE: We are what we hear?

I think like I do because I think, not because anyone told me anything.

I agree, this forum does have mostly thinkers. And I'm sure most thinkers evolve over time. But I think (there I go again) that there are a LOT of people that aren't thinking. Or don't start thinking until much later in life. Or maybe never. When it comes to politics.


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RE: We are what we hear?

I agree esh. There are people who simply don't care. Don't watch the news, don't read the newspaper, would never think to spend time reading on the internet. Many people go the poll to vote, simply because they think they should. Either someone tells them who they should vote for, or they vote by name recognition.


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RE: We are what we hear?

I have to say I was absolutely shocked during my last visit to the States with how totally and completely misinformed many were with regards to universal healthcare and, more importantly, with the Affordable Health Care Act. Absolute falsehoods based on what they were being fed by their politicians and the media of their choice with no independent research and thought of their own.

I'm not suggesting the same doesn't happen here, it does.


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RE: We are what we hear?

I was just talking about this today, as I realized I was parroting an opinion of my (soon-to-be-ex) husband that I didn't particularly agree upon closer examination. Just passing it off as my own... never you mind, look away folks, nothing to see here.

It's scary what can creep into a person's opinion bank if one is not careful. Whatever you do, don't let it take root!! I hear they're invasive...


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RE: We are what we hear?

I remember never trust anyone over 30 I will be 60 in a couple few weeks.


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I came from a very conservative Republican family. Started to change during the Civil Rights period. I remember my epiphany in 1965 when my mother made a comment about Viola Liuzzo who was a Freedom Rider helping to register voters in Alabama and who was killed by the Klan ("If she had been home with her family where she belonged, it never would have happened."). I realized in that moment that perhaps Mrs. Liuzzo knew that a parent needs to teach her children that some things are worth standing up for and risking your life for in this life. I have been a liberal (interestingly, the word come from the Latin for 'free' as in freedom) and Democrat ever since-very disappointing to my parents, I am sure. Of course, their right-wing daughter was not the one who cared for them when their health declined and helped them financially, but that is another subject altogether-ha. My core beliefs have not changed. I do avoid certain media outlets if they are presenting a viewpoint rather than factual information. My sources are becoming more and more limited. I do try to read primary sources as much as possible, but it is not likely that I will change my political outlook at this point. I am becoming more liberal the older I get-Labrea, turned 60 in April-it is a good age to be! Happy birthday!


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Thank goodness my 93 year old mother has at least one left wing daughter. The other two of us and my brother are all right wingers. And you know how us right wingers hate old people.


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cyn..You could be me and your mother could've been my mother..or father. My dad and I had huge argument in the 60's. He walked out of my house when I went off on him about a comment he made about the Kent State student shootings and the communists who were influencing them. seriously. My whole family going back forever were staunch republicans...grandmother a committeewoman. Maybe a maternal grandfather was a Democrat. He was a union guy.

But oddly my generation of cousins are all democrats. None are left of that generation but a 95 year old aunt.


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RE: We are what we hear?

I think my parents were of a more Republican bent, before Republicans became really bent. Today's GOP is nothing like the GOP of yesteryear. And whether this is due to closet doors opening, or to media takeover... I really don't know. I can't believe that way.

It's all come down to class wars, keeping the citizenry divided and in-fighting so we don't see what's really happening... though it's hard not to. It still comes down to one little word, one little "sin"... and it all floats upward.

Politics today has less to do with actual politics, and more to do with money.


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RE: We are what we hear?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 7:57

Politics today has less to do with actual politics, and more to do with money.

Ya think :)


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RE: We are what we hear?

I know! ;-)

And what a crying shame it is. I don't want to buy my representation... I want to fairly vote for it and have my vote actually count.

I don't need some reporter on tv or radio to tell me what to think. I already know what's right and what's wrong. All it takes is a little research to see who does things right, and who does things wrong.


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We were a family of Democrat working class. Steel Mills was the major industry in my city.

I did find it interesting that he recognized that once he started to read and became informed he realized .........

The issues are so complex, you can't just go with some ideological mantra for each substantive issue."

It falls in the talking points you hear against a policy. The issues are never examined. Issued are not weighed......If I do/want/think......They do not think what happens? The end game/outcomes for Conservatives does not seem to be considered.

I understand the politicians reason. The companies (lobbyist) tell them what to think to keep their job. I do not understand why the people .....it is so easy to convenience them that it is a good plan of what they should be for or against.


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Jodi..Funny..Republican became "bent". That was very funny. I was trying to figure what happened to the GOP and when. There was not this nasty animosity back in the day between the parties. The GOP and the Democrats worked together to come up with solutions.


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RE: We are what we hear?

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 9:23

"The issues are so complex, you can't just go with some ideological mantra for each substantive issue."

"It falls in the talking points you hear against a policy. The issues are never examined. Issued are not weighed......If I do/want/think......They do not think what happens? The end game/outcomes for Conservatives does not seem to be considered."

I disagree. That's exactly what we are doing right here--examining issues. As far as the outcomes for Conservative not being considered; well, maybe you should consider them.

_________________

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 9:20

"I don't need some reporter on tv or radio to tell me what to think. I already know what's right and what's wrong. All it takes is a little research to see who does things right, and who does things wrong."

Where does the research info come from? News reports most likely, which refer (maybe) to someone else's "research". We tend to pick and choose the ones that support our particular inclinations.
Saying "I already know what's right and what's wrong" indicates a closed mind, an unwillingness to be open to considering an different viewpoint. That can't work in a discussion; you'll be spinning your wheels forever.

I think we are what we hear, because if we are not then we aren't listening. Might as well become a hermit.


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I disagree. That's exactly what we are doing right here--examining issues. As far as the outcomes for Conservative not being considered; well, maybe you should consider them.

The very reason I ignore your comments/questions. Empty comments. Nothing new you only serve to prove a point.


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RE: We are what we hear?

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 12:57

"The very reason I ignore your comments/questions. Empty comments."

All evidence to the contrary.

"Empty comments. Nothing new you only serve to prove a point."

Actually, I believe that's what you just did. ;-D


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RE: We are what we hear?

I think I'm gonna follow somebody around today. Quoting them. All day long.

Where's Jodi when you need her.


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We are what we hear?

I managed to purge my brain of the Ray Conniff Singers after being subjected to them for what seemed like ages when I was growing up.


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Maddie..I was thinking the same thing. Why bother to read the threads when we have our resident "quoter" who feeds it back to us in every post she makes?


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maddie told me long ago to ignore the echo in the room. lol


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RE: We are what we hear?

Although I agree with the author most certainly, I also wonder how much of an effect the thinking of those you surround yourself with can have on your own political thought process, especially the politics of the family you were raised in.

If by the vast majority of the time the important people in your life are, say, liberal minded political voters and you yourself have always come from that point of view - how likely will it be to be able to hear a conservate ive point of view without automatically going to the negative reaction - and how much would that hinder the chances of a change of a political point of view on important, party defining topics?

Certainly one is not ever mentally confined to the politics of family or those who are part of their lives and work - I am proof of that myself so it must be at least fairly common enough, but how much of an influence does that have?

I suspect a great influence, in general. The change of political ideas might take much longer under those circumstances.


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mylab, he was interviewed on MSNBC and from what he said his change came from reading and progressing. His conversation was years ahead of what you would hear come out of a today's 17 year old.

Everything seems to come back to education but my opinion is you first have to have some natural developed intelligence to start. Some just have a higher IQ than some and others may have better reasoning skills.

He was talking as though he had both IQ and reasoning skills. It is like peer pressure as a kid and growing up and no longer feel the need to do what everybody around you think.


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The title of this thread makes me think of an old East Block joke:

What do you call Expressionism?
When the artist paints what he sees.

What do you call Impressionism?
When the artist paints what he feels.

What do you call Socialist Realism?
When the artist paints what he hears.


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It IS a little difficult to debate an issue when there's a constant echo ringing in our ears... I learned to use 'control C' and other commands way back when 3.1 was introduced, and I've never felt the need to use them overly much... unless the quote was worth repeating. With that in mind, I suppose you could say it's flattering.

Once, long ago, I wrote an article for our exclusive bulldog quarterly... and lo and behold, there it was, word for word, copied in the very next issue of our opposition's rag, without any credit given to its original author... me. They do say that plagiarism is the best form of flattery, though, don't they?

I suppose it's only annoying or aggravating when the quotes are used out of context, or without the intent they were originally written with. Also... am I the only one noticing the Hay-like takeover tactics, using one post after another, right in line, as though some new thought had occurred in the interim of a minute or less?

Where were we? Ah, yes... the Republican bent. In my parents' time, it seemed as though the word "conservative" had quite a different meaning. There were no extremes, no fundamentalist cults, no gigantic mountains made of molehills on television every day. There was very little talk of political mayhem within our household. In fact, I recall my parents occasionally voting for a candidate that was not mainstream, mainly because they felt that person more closely represented their needs and wants as US citizens.

In today's world, one simply cannot gather one's information from only one source... even two or three can give a tilted perspective. One requires going to the real source, using cognitive thought processing and problem solving skills... all the way to conclusion... and gaining information from several sources casting from several sides in order to gain a clear, well-rounded idea of what's really happening.

In this day and age of instant information, anyone can write and publish "news"... or articles and stories. Anyone. One must take care where one goes for such information, and ensure to vet it.


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RE: We are what we hear?

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 3, 12 at 18:41

"They do say that plagiarism is the best form of flattery, though, don't they?"

Er, no.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

-Charles Caleb Colton

Plagiarism's a different animal.


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RE: We are what we hear?

Its pretty rare that the politics - as well as racial/ethnic attitudes - of the 12 - 18 yr olds differ from those of their parents, pretty much by osmosis. But after that, who knows.

My Dad was a life-long registered Republican until the neocons took over Washington. Now, with the tea party, don't even ask, it makes him sick. I was registered independent for years, but recently registered Republican as all our county officers are decided during the primary. Its important these days to support the vanishing traditional Republicans, not the fruitcakes.


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Saw another interview today and he said....His parents were not political. He got the Conservative leaning talking points from listening to the radio. He did say in his original interview...... "I live in Georgia. We're inundated with conservative talk in Georgia"

If this is the case can you imagine how mentally immature the adults are that the talk radio can sway? It swayed a child but when he grew up he developed enough mentally to question ideological mantra of what was said and its validity.


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