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Republicans Leaving Their Party

Posted by marquest z5 PA (My Page) on
Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 1:03

I hear constantly how Liberals specifically President Obama is the worst President ever from Conservative perspective at HT. Liberal arguments has been. How do you rate a President as doing a poor job when the success of our country lies in the hands of a Congress that would prefer to give the impression that the President cannot do the job.

He is not a Emperor, King or Dictator. We have a President and a political process of a Congress and Senate to pass bills for the President to sign. If they do not do their job nothing happens.

The President can set policies but if they are not written by the Congress and passed by the Senate. What do you think should happen?

Will you believe Representatives from your party that explain where the problem is really happening.

They are walking away from their own party and telling you where the problem hits. Do you believe other Conservatives? Are they wrong?

Richard_Hanna
Steven LaTourette
Sen. Owen Johnson
Olympia Snow

Richard_Hanna".JPGU.S. Rep. Richard Hanna says extreme positions by lawmakers are killing the ability to govern. "We render ourselves incapable of governing when all we do is take severe sides..., " he said
Syracuse -- U.S. Rep. Richard Hanna took his own party to task today, saying the Republican Party is too willing to accommodate its most extreme members.

"I have to say that I'm frustrated by how much we I mean the Republican Party are willing to give deferential treatment to our extremes in this moment in history," he told The Post-Standard editorial board.

If all people do is go down there and join a team, and the team is invested in winning and you have something that looks very similar to the shirts and the skins, there's not a lot of value there," Hanna said. Democrats in Congress, he continued, are "much more congenial" and show "a little less anger."
==================================
(Reuters) - Representative Steven LaTourette, an Ohio Republican, announced on Tuesday he will retire from Congress, citing the lack of compromise in Washington.
=======================================
Sen. Owen Johnson, a Long Island Republican who has been in the Senate since 1973, has decided to retire, according to a report from Newsday.

Citing unnamed party sources, Newsday reports Johnson has informed Republican leaders of his decision to not seek reelection, with local party officials set to meet over the weekend to decide on a new candidate.

=======================
Olympia Snowe Quit Senate to Protest GOP Agenda
by Eleanor Clift Mar 1, 2012 1:00 AM EST
The Maine moderate's resignation comes amid a GOP move to push back against what they consider big government trampling on religious freedom, an effort she planned to vote against. But she had long grown sick and tired of partisanship, colleagues said.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

This gets back to the success of governor Scott Walker fighting back his recall. Divide and Conquer has proven to be a winning strategy. The more you polarize an electorate, the easier it is to win an election.

But the sword is double-edged. If demographics are working against you, it becomes much more difficult to win in a polarized environment. I think some of these more prescient legislators see that.

-Ron-


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Oh puleeze.

Senator Johnson is 83 years old. Good for him.

Democrats have recently left also. (see link) They offered similar complaints.

Richard Hanna is a moderate. Yes he is unhappy but he is not leaving the party. He's merely not running for re-election.

Olympia Snow complains of partisanship in the Senate which the Democrats happen to control at this point in time.

Not one of these retirees is leaving their party. Simply not keeping their seats. They are human. They burnout just like the rest of us.

Under Obama's watch. The great unifier. Snort.

Here is a link that might be useful: Partisanship


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Here is man who really is leaving his party. A Black American who can no longer relate to today's Democrats.

Here is a link that might be useful: Davis


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

It's not like we don't know what a filibuster is.

Some here need a constant reminder, of who the real divider is. Since they keep "forgetting" this, or rather, since they keep hoping we would forget.

Attending the dinner were House members Eric Cantor, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, Dan Lungren, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan and Pete Sessions. From the Senate were Tom Coburn, Bob Corker, Jim DeMint, John Ensign and Jon Kyl. Others present were former House Speaker and future and failed presidential candidate Newt Gingrich and the Republican strategist Frank Luntz, who organised the dinner and sent out the invitations.

The dinner table was set in a square at Luntz's request so everyone could see one another and talk freely. The session lasted four hours and by the end the sombre mood had lifted: they had conceived a plan. They would take back the House in November 2010, which they did, and use it as a spear to mortally wound Obama in 2011 and take back the Senate and White House in 2012, Draper writes.

"If you act like you're the minority, you're going to stay in the minority," said Keven McCarthy, quoted by Draper.

"We've gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign."



Where I come from, it's called treason.

We had a thread on this. Maybe you wanna comment in there instead.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

83 years old!?...He's a quitter!


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 7:06

LaTourette is a moderate, no room for moderates in the new Republican party ... :)


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Mom,

No room for compromise or mutual goals in politics. Period.

BTW, I left you and Stanly up there on your own. I've abandoned you and northeast Ohio for lovely Powell, OH.

I'm already missing it! Really. :)


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

There are plenty of Republican voters that are leaving their party too.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 7:24

Hey Brush ... our political structure has abandoned the American people in pursuit of wealth and power.

The city by the lake is where I was born and where I will leave this world :)


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Plenty of Democrats leaving their party too. Many for religious convictions and others who grow into being more fiscally conservative. More gay conservative groups are even springing up.

Just as the Republicans lost their base for the ultra right wing. The Dems are in the same boat with the ultra left taking over the media and the internet boards like this one.

Obama has been a learning experience for many of the young techies who supported him. They won't necessarily become Republicans but they sure are disenchanted with the progressives and lefties.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

with the ultra left taking over the media and the internet boards like this one.

ULTRA left? Are you kidding? What is your definition of "ultra" left?


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

ultraleft
   [uhl-truh-left] Show IPA
adjective
1.
of or belonging to the extreme political Left; extremely liberal or radical.
noun
2.
the ultraleft, the aggregate of ultraleft persons or groups.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

We are ultra left didn't you know that!


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Uh, yeah we know the "technical" definition.

Is there anyONE on this board that can be defined as "ultra" left and if so, what is it about them that does so?

And what ultra left faction exactly is taking over the media? Name names, please.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

I actually found a website called Republicans for Obama. And it's been around since 2006. So there are more out there than me! I am not alone!!! Its About statement:

"Although we have campaigned, worked for, and voted Republican all our lives, we recognize that President Obama is the right leader for our country at this time. Our current Republican leadership is unable to stand up to the most extreme elements in our party, no matter the circumstance. Meanwhile, President Obama has challenged his own party on numerous issues, including taxes, healthcare and foreign policy. President Obama has forged a pragmatic, common-sense path forward during a challenging time."

Here is a link that might be useful: RFO website


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

ULTRA is a word used by the likes of those who think it lends something to the statement other than giving others a picture of a sterotype that says things like ULTRA LIBERAL or Ultra Left.
It's been thrown around so long & so often it has not teeth or criteria associated with it.

This week the NY Times (because they are ultra liberal) see they aren't Fox so they hold no weight here also ran a story about the decline of the Republican Party in California.

Wild One can you list the CURRENT elected Dems who are leaving because they have had enough of the parties shenanigans.

The last election cycle was embarrassing enough for you guys
with al the notable Republicans who jumped ship

Here is a link that might be useful: Cycle on


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

I don't consider anyone on this board to be ultra liberal or ultra conservative. Passionate, committed, engaged , stubborn but ultra....I don't think so.


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It depends from which side you look at it. "Ultra left"? I'm pretty sure Hitler would agree.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 10:33

Well, the new and improved 2010 congress has left the taste of regret in the mouths of many.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

It reminds me of the conversation my son and I had yesterday. I was trying to explain the political spectrum from one end to the other. I could easily say, facist was ultraleft. Do you agree? If so, I can't think of one facist, self-or other-proclaimed, on this board. Ultraright was harder to define. I could easily say what characteristics, but ?anarchist? Doesn't really fit. I would think the right fringe couldn't be called that. I could be wrong, but they want to be in charge, not left alone???


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In the case of rape or to save the life of a m other is ultra left for many....oh yeah many many many many!
Marriage equality is unthinkable look at the votes look at whose voting oh yes very very very Ultra Ultra Left...it's not even embarrassing to them!

The Voter VALUES SUMMIT alone should be enough to give you a picture of ultra what & has been for yeaaaaaaars.
With benchmarks like that there is no ultra anythig there is bizzaro world & you keep getting more bizzaro candidates put out there & keep applauding even more & more bizarre behavior, attitudes, policies you all denied obstructionism
when it became a fact it became so what.
You jut lost Kay Bailey and to another extremist TEA THING & the whole line is that they are just fiscal conservatives is nonsense & always has been.


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AFAIK, in traditional political theory since at least the 1930s, these have been described as the classic extremes of left and right:

extreme left - communism
extreme right - fascism

Libertarians and Austrian School economists often disagree with this left-right model, and propose their own models.

All the best,
-Patrick


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Ok, so still wildchild has not come back to say what her definition of ultra left is and who on this board qualifies as ultra left.

I'm guessing she just threw that out there without actually meaning it.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

"Where I come from, it's called treason."

I think that fits the bill.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 1, 12 at 11:08

My take-

Extreme Right = Unrealistic
Extreme Left = Unrealistic

Moderate = Realistic

We gotta get Real.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Along Rob's lines...

The keyword is 'Authoritarian'.

Left/right are the wrong labels for it.

Conservative isn't the opposite of liberal, either. The opposite of liberal is illiberal.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

I think when you get to the extremes on either end, it sort of falls off the edge and, say, on the right you'd have the survivalist types, the religious cults, Branch Davidians, militia groups, etc. Not exactly a cohesive bunch.

On the far left would be the anarchists, proponents of violent revolution, English teachers, and that sort.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Should we not expect the leaders we elected to compromise? Children are the only people that should get a pass on not being able to compromise. They have not matured and understand the outcome of not accepting that you cannot have everything your way and no other way.

It is disturbing when the Representatives that are close to the situation and can see the damage that is being done to the country and the citizens of the country because of his party's actions. " Hanna said. Democrats in Congress, he continued, are "much more congenial" and show "a little less anger. Is anger helpful?

Can anyone see what is happening hurts the country? or Are we so stuck in my way or the let the baby die in the tub because not compromise? Do you see that helping the country or the economy?


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

I believe there can be anarchy at both ends of the scale. However a "true anarchist" might deny belonging to either faction.

Governmental anarchy is extreme right wing, it wants no government at all.

Social anarchy is extreme left wing, it wants no social controls.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

And who on this board is "ultra left", wildchild? Who wants "no social controls" (and what are "social controls")?


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The right (no ultra needed) had no problems finding supporters for dismantling the constitution and that's not treason (scary folk we got here)
Got together the night of the inauguration & swore to block the nations business (that's not treason)
Freak fest!


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

anarchists, proponents of violent revolution, English teachers

lol David!



Rob, in classical political theory, fascism is actually the ultra right. Anarchy is the ultra left.

Far right =>law => macro-state => love of authority =>fascism

Far left => consent => micro-community => love of chaos => anarchism

I wouldn't characterize anyone's politics on this board as "ultra left" and only a very few as "ultra right". Marshall might come closest to further left insofar as his libertarianism overlaps, but libertarianism can also overlap the other way.

It would be a surprise to many here, but real leftists, not to mention ultra leftists, absolutely despise liberals and their milquetoast ways. There are a number of conservatives on this board who seem to confuse the two quite often.

Forgive me for copy-pasting, but I put this together on a thread a while back and it's very apt here:

Here's classical leftist, from the current Socialist Party USA Statement of Principles:

THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control - a non-racist, classless, feminist socialist society... where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies; where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work; where workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. We believe socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future - to a real radical democracy from below.

The Socialist Party fights for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. We support militant working class struggles and electoral action, independent of the capitalist controlled two-party system, to present socialist alternatives. We strive for democratic revolutions - radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations - to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. The Socialist Party is a democratic, multi-tendency organization, with structure and practices visible and accessible to all members.

Here's further left, from the U.S. Marxist-Leninist Organization:

USMLO is putting forward for discussion the following proposal for the program for an anti-war government:

1) Outlaw any and all U.S. involvement in wars of aggression and the use of force in settling conflicts between nations and peoples;

2) All U.S. Troops Home Now;

3) Cancel the Debts of all the countries of Asia, Africa and Latin America;

4) Pay Reparations Now for all the crimes of slavery and all crimes of the U.S. government, present and past; and

5) End all support for Israel and act to end the occupation of Palestine now, beginning with withdrawal to the 1967 borders.

6) Stop the Raids and Deportations. Legalization for all now.

7) Stop Funding War, Stop Paying the Rich, Increase Funding for Social Programs

And more radically left, from the Crimethink Anarchist Collective:

The task of the revolutionary is not the task of the ally. We are not here to make the dreams of the proletariat come true. The proletariat is produced by capitalism, which we want to destroy. The task of the revolutionary is to shift our collective sense of the possible, so that our desires and the realities they drive us to create can shift in turn. We are here to transform reality beyond where our notions of consent can lead us. We need a different discourse to imagine the transformations that can open pathways out of consensus reality.

Again, we don't believe that we can persuade everyone to consent to our dreams of anarchist revolution; not only is the deck stacked against us, but the dealer, the table, and the whole house. We don't buy into the idea that our goals are what everybody "really" wants, nor do we assume that everyone would adopt our views if only they had access to all the right information. We don't claim to represent anyone beyond ourselves, nor to stand in for any silent majority; in that sense, anarchist revolution is not a democratic project. Nor do we, despairing of those things, decide that to be true to our principles we must give up on transforming society altogether and retreat into isolation among the few comrades with whom we can establish meaningful self-determined consensus. We don't think it's hopeless to resist in the face of the stranglehold of consensus reality. We want a different path forward, one that doesn't assume desire to be fixed, that doesn't rely on liberal consent.

We neither wish to impose our will on others by force, nor to disregard their desires. Instead, we want to perform a kind of magic, an alchemical operation. We want to induce desires, not simply fulfill them.

As anarchists, our greatest strength lies not in the coherence and reason of our ideology, but in the passionate actions we undertake and the ungovernable lives we lead. Let's not try to convert people to anarchism; let's set out, with mischievous glee, to infect everyone around us with the anarchy that flows in our veins. Let's produce situations in which anarchy is possible, even likely, even desirable to those who might not feel any inclination towards it today.

As you can probably see, the further left you go, the fewer stringent 'principles' are espoused until Alice falls into the Bakunian rabbit hole and everyone just sits around wanting coffee that nobody will ask anyone else to make.

The further right you go, the more you get into ideas of nationalism based on race or religion, rigid moral dictates, and ultimately a totalitarian State. It's a common fallacy that the East Bloc countries were "far left"; the rhetoric was that of communism, indeed, but the actual political practice was that of rigid authoritarian totalitarianism.

Similarly, lefties or (in actuality) liberals in our current political system who propose ever more stringent laws are not being "leftist" but rather moving towards the totalitarian, and thus technically to the "right". It's a point not lost on conservative critics, but it shows the danger of trying to summarize all political action with this simplistic chart of left-right. They curl around and meet somewhere in the back. In the dark.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Still this was about jumping ship or rhymes with.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cycle of Decline


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Yeah wildchild don't you have anything to say on the Republicans committing treason? Why not?


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I think "ultra left" is the opposite of "extreme Conservative".


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Yep, I did put that backwards. Duh! :)

But, at least we're getting to the heart of it. I don't think anyone is extreme left or right enough on this board to fit in any of the fringes. Close. Not even the furthest. I don't see MrK, demi, circus... as extreme right any more than I see any extreme left here. Strong personalities don't make anyone "extreme" in a political sense. In my opinion. But we all have those!


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

There was a time when treasonous persons judged guilty were hanged... or shot. Now, it's as though our politicians expect everyone to accept it, as though it were just another day at the office.

What happened to government by the people for the people? We ARE the people... and yet, we're not in charge of anything anymore. We barely have a say... unless we scream and fuss loud enough that we're thrown a proverbial bone to shut us up.

Part of us just want our freedoms and liberties and equality so we can live a decent life... and the other part wants total control over the rest of us, and to continue the pillaging.

Where's the compromise? Where are the adults? Where's the rationale?


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

It's those folks who want to control everyone else that have me worried. I am all about full freedoms and liberties, equality and an opportuntity for a decent life. I with you there!


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

I am all about full freedoms and liberties, equality and an opportunity for a decent life

I think a salient point is that the current tea party / "conservative " take on this is freedom and liberty for corporate America - for the citizens, not so much.

I, personally, think that our personal liberty would be far more enhanced without health care tied to employment.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Lets be accurate. LaTourette left the party AFTER he won his primary and left specifically because his committee assignments were being given by GOP leadership to right-wing extremists in the Republican Party who don't want to wait their turn. Remember this is a party that assigned wingnut know-nothing Michele Bachmann to the Intelligence Committee.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

KT, you made me laugh. MB and intelligence in the same sentence.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

then you have the surrogates of the party who speak their filth for them. The Family Research Council, The American Family Association, Concerned women for America & the countless astro turf turds that say & do what the elected republicans can't do or say but won't usually denounce.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

Rob, yes MB and Intelligence Committee is an oxymoron with the emphasis on moron.


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RE: Republicans Leaving Their Party

you're killing me! Now I'm guffawing! I will use that (and give you credit)


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