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Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Posted by tobr24u z6 RI (My Page) on
Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 6:27

Hare Krishna, Buddhism, TM? Mine? Recently, it depends upon the the time of day, HT in the morning and a good martini in the afternoon...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I don't really care for alcoholic beverages, and would probably reach for a different indulgence if that were a pattern... but it isn't.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"whats so snappy about being enlightened in a dark world"?
questioned an old roommate.
I heard a lecturer once describe someone so blissed out after their weekend retreat that when they returned to the noise & hustle of the city they were in agony.

She suggested that unless you could be the person you were in the place you were in that it wasn't really trying to attain enlightenment it was spiritual drug taking.
I agree!


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Absolutely.

Frequently.

All I do is ask and receive.

Solitude in the desert facilitates it.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

No because there isn't one. Enlightenment happens every second of the day when you decide well, to be or not to be.

I pray, and attend meetings as often on Sundays as I am able. I also do meditate for at least ten minutes every day at the beginning of the day, but moreover, I've found the very small act of paying attention to my breathing can help me to transform whatever else I am doing into an experience of being that is more than itself, be it working out, walking the dogs, washing dishes or working on a spreadsheet.

But again, have I gotten there? No, because I don't think it's a destination you can measure your journey towards.

If you will allow me:

I CELEBRATE myself, and sing myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

I loafe and invite my soul,
I lean and loafe at my ease observing a spear of summer grass.

My tongue, every atom of my blood, form'd from this soil,
this air,
Born here of parents born here from parents the same, and
their parents the same,
I, now thirty-seven years old in perfect health begin,
Hoping to cease not till death.

Creeds and schools in abeyance,
Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are, but never
forgotten,
I harbor for good or bad, I permit to speak at every hazard,
Nature without check with original energy

Walt Whitman
"Song of Myself" (just a bit of it)

I was thinking of posting Kerouac's "How to Meditate" too, but Whitman was the first poet I loved well before I knew of the Beat authors so I'll just recommend that one.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Thank You Texan!
I've done sweat lodges, retreats out the ying yang (sorry), Course In Miracles, Sat for endless hours in idyllic settings, Creative Visualization classes only to come to the idea if I can't get it waiting for the E train during the rush hour it's really just a head trip about just what...life!


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Does walking down the hall to turn on the lights count?


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 14:51

That's illumination.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

My walks with the dogs are usually tranquil, especially when I walk them in the woods. It's a three mile course by the creek, thru high meadows with wild flowers, thru deep woods, to another meadow and back to the car. We usually see creatures and just absorb the sights of the beautiful mountains.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

jeez lily, when you say things like that I get all mushy and feel bad we are at odds! Maybe I been enlightened?


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Maybe, FF...lol


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I practice yoga and try become as enlightened as possible as I twist into a pretzel.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Strange to see Buddhism equated with Moonyism, -Thich Nhat Hanh isn't exactly Sun Myung Moon - but whatever.

My paths tend to be more left-handed than right. I do pity the fool who hasn't studied and practiced meditation somewhat, at least the breathing methods, because cooling your emotions through breath control is an extremely useful technique. Sometimes you just need that one second to not say that particular phrase or throw that first punch in a stressful moment.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Meditation and breathing have everything to do with excellence in marksmanship. Ive practiced forms of both to move my gun control to high levels. I have to believe they are important to other endeavors as well.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I find the alchemical process of interest, and read as much Jungian material as I am able to usefully absorb; have also participated in several sensory awareness workshops and guided meditation retreats, as well as some work related workshops and MBTI trainings that were also helpful. Just about anything can be helpful to those who allow it to be, although personality orientation does seem to determine what will be most catalytic.

I agree it does come down to each moment; nice comment.

Admittedly there are scams and the misguided out there.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I thought 'Moony' meant being 'pie eyed' with love, but I'm not sure what that means either.

I have never been of the meditative, or herbal or new age crew. I would not be caught doing yoga or TM or burning incense - it would make me physically sick. No course in Miracles, no Rumi, no chants no crystals.

I almost always think: "that person has too much time on their hands and no imagination"...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Often the opposite of what a person naturally is drawn to is the most catalytic.

What do you mean by "no imagination"--that they can't think of anything to do?

A very action-oriented person would probably naturally feel that way.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I have never been of the meditative, or herbal or new age crew. I would not be caught doing yoga or TM or burning incense - it would make me physically sick. No course in Miracles, no Rumi, no chants no crystals.


No empathy for Esalen? How about the I Ching? No Krishnamurti? Not even a twinge for feng shui? A secret longing for mu tea? Not even a locavore acolyte for sister Alice?

Are you sure that you're from California? :0)


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Especially in Berkeley.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I think that collecting your thoughts, relaxation, and mental exercises are certainly useful.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Especially in Berkeley

lol. That's where I got my new age training.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Well lookie here, once I had to get back to work people started bringing jokes to the thread ...

Glad everyone liked my comments. I have to say, they aren't things I figured out on my own by any means, I just wish I was that bright. I have the most fantastic cousin in the world who is a longtime student of Buddhism who is currently living in Laos and he is a wonderful friend and helper in my spiritual life.

Funny, my imagination is stimulated by meditation alexr, you don't have to trick out some sort of scene with incense and a bell or anything, it can be very ordinary, it's not all Angela Bassett in What's Love Got to do with it.

I sit down in the middle of my yard on a garden pad (just plain Indian style, not "Lotus position" though I do straighten my spine out totally) and my first thought to have to let go of is always how stinky my dogs are, since they like to crowd around me when I do it. Very spiritual stuff there, planning to bathe my stinky dogs! Until poof, I am able to blank out my mind. They must like it though, because they are still leaning against my knees being stinky when I come back to thought!

You might just try it and see. Or don't, either way.

A chacun son gout. Namaste.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I have an off-topic question, just out of curiosity... what do you suppose causes your dogs to "stink", as you say? What kind of bad odor is it?

We don't bathe our dogs unless they get into something they shouldn't. We simply brush them. We do not bathe them more than once or twice annually. A dog's skin and coat require the natural oils their bodies produce to remain in top condition, so we normally attack the coat and skin from a nutritional point, which eliminates any undue odors.

My dog sleeps with me, so if there were any nasty odor, we'd have an issue. So, I'm just kind of curious why you think your dogs smell bad... we can discuss it in another thread, if you like... or on the other side.

Carry on...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I don't actually practice meditation, but I have read a fair number of books by some practicing Buddhist teachers. Those books, very simple writings, not the heavy stuff, helped me immensely through some troubling times in my life. I'm for it.

I think my dancing accomplishes some of the same things as meditation does for other people. I'm amazed at just how completely I get "lost" in my dance. I walk out from my dance night and suddenly I'm hit with reality. I've been that absorbed into it.

As for smelly dogs, I once needed to ask a friend for a ride when my car had broken down. She has a dog that rides in that car. I almost gagged from the smell. It was the worst ride I've ever had and I swore I'd walk before I'd ever get back in that car. People who are around offensive smells will eventually not smell the odor themselves. It's there though. You just don't smell it anymore.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

No, Hay... I've smelled dogs that were worthy of gagging over... and they usually turn out to have some sort of health or nutrition issue. My nose works just fine... trust me.. my dogs don't smell obnoxious. They don't have any offensive odor... unless they are fed something that gives them gas...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I do fly fishing by myself on small streams. Get off on the overwhelming beauty of the sun/sky/water/terrestrial foliage/bottom strata/fish interface, with lil' old me somewhere in the middle.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Really, Jodi? So my friend and her totally disgusting car smell? She has a problem with HER nose? I don't think so.

I suspect your nose does indeed work just fine, but I suspect that we ALL are surrounded by odors that our brain has managed to get used to. To the point that we just don't smell them anymore.

Your dogs stink to me. You might not notice the smell. You sleep with them if you want.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Jodi's right. I have a dog that smells like roses. The other one not so much.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Then maybe it's not everyone else, Hay, but your OWN overly sensitive olfactory sense... because I can smell a stinky dog if it, indeed, smells as it shouldn't.

But if a dog is healthy, and it keeps itself clean, it doesn't have an offensive odor.

Kind of like people... if they're healthy and have decent hygiene, there is no offensive odor. If not... well... covering it in aftershave or perfume doesn't help.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

A lot of it is genetic in one way or another.

Some hound-family dogs have a sort of funky odor.

Poor Shar Peis, with all their wrinkles providing a wonderful environment for fungi & yeasts, have to be bathed very often to keep them from smelling bad.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I do think that my sense of smell hasn't been quite as anesthetized as most people. No doubt. I spend most of my time here in the middle of nowhere and most of the odors around me are just very earthy smells. I have unscented soap, I have unscented detergents.

Because of all that, not having to endure walking down the crowded streets or a crowded subway, I know I'm much more aware of odors than other people, but I don't think it's because I'm overly sensitive. I think other people have just gotten themselves desensitized.

I'm aware that I have body odors that other people will pick up on. We all do.

I once had an interesting conversation with an artist who had completely lost her sense of smell. She was sure it was because she had used the "magic marker" type of pens in her work for so long and that they had destroyed her sense of smell.

I know, too, that I've dated women who, at first, will have an odor that I don't like, but the more I'm around them, the less the odor persists.

Your dogs stink. Sorry.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I don't mind jodik ... I was being a little bit jokey too, but I made a stinky dog thread to respond to you.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Your dogs stink. Sorry

Having an odor doesn't necessarily mean they stink.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"Having an odor doesn't necessarily mean they stink."

That's pretty much the whole point. It's all very subjective and our mind will adapt accordingly. Some smells are probably pretty universally repugnant. Some are just a matter of taste and some can be acquired tastes.

I remember reading a long time ago some person built their office above a stable because they loved the smell. I hate some plant smells, (like privet and some Salvias), that some people love.

But, for many, many odors that people are around each and every day, the nose and the brain will eventually not pick up on them at all.


You ever smell a 'possum that you caught in a humane trap? Tell me that 'possum doesn't stink. Now, try to convince Mr. 'Possum that Ms. 'Possum stinks. Sleep with one long enough, you'd probably feel the same way.

Your dog still stinks... to me.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

You haven't smelled my dog. He actually really does smell like a stuffed teddy bear. It's a very pleasant smell - a smell that children like. You just couldn't possibly thing he stinks.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

(Hay's having trouble getting motivated to do some needed work around here. I guess that's why it's needed.)

So I headed out of the internet, but just checked on Google News one last time.....

Why didn't I think of that?

Ability To Keep A Beat Linked To Language Skills: Can Musical Training Improve Your Child's Reading And Speech?

Not related to the article per se, but, of course, Buddhist meditation practice, as I've seen it taught at a beginner level, has you "focused" on your rhythmic breathing. My dancing is all about getting in touch with the rhythm, the beat. Or as a coworker once expressed to me, "Ridin' the Rhythm".

The article suggests that those of us good at rhythm are smarter than the rest of you. You may have a different interpretation, of course.

"Although many poets believe rhythm cannot be separated from language, scientists have been less certain about the connection between the two. In particular, they have wondered about the different ways in which the brain responds to each. Now, a study conducted at Northwestern University provides evidence that people who perform better on rhythmic tests also show ‘enhanced neural responses’ to speech sounds."

Then again, the recent killer in the Navy Yard was said to be a "good chanter"....

I have never really figured out what it takes to be a good dancer with a good sense of rhythm. It's not intelligence as we usually know it. I know some really dumb dancers by those measures. But, overall, I do think that there is a decent correlation between good dancers and intelligence. And then, I think about the Savant I saw years ago who sat down at the piano one day and played like a professional who'd been training all his life. What do I really know?

Your opinion may differ. I'll try not to take it personally.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Okay, my dogs just looked at me as if I was nuts. I just went out on the porch and called each over and sniffed them up and down. My report, they don't smell at all although they are due for a bath in the next few days. They are both very short haired and although they don't sleep with me, I have a very acute gift of smell. Very neutral smell they have. The only reasons they get baths is one has a pure white stomach which turns greyish...and to keep fleas away.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Moving over to the stinky dog thread... lol...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I don't know Hay, I've heard that drummers have a reputation for being uh, not so smart.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

By age 14 I became interested in nutrition and holistic health. By 18 I taught myself how to cast astrology charts (they had to be charted and calculated by hand back then and it took a couple hours per chart). In college I got interested in the world's religions, in particular Buddhism, and did a lot of Zen meditation. After graduating, I pursued assorted New Age activities, and attended workshops, healing festivals, Zen retreats, etc. Even ate occasional meals at the Hare Krishna temple in Boston (the food was fantastic, but they used too much incense). So yes I explored the "path to enlightenment"!

Where did it get me? Not sure. I don't feel particularly enlightened. Pretty much live a practical life and have also fallen in love with science. My creative side has been somewhat repressed by the grind of life's responsibilities in recent decades. Thank god for gardening which balances this out and easily puts me into a relaxing "flow" state:

Flow is the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. - Wikipedia

This post was edited by terrene on Fri, Sep 20, 13 at 3:52


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I, too, would say "thank reason" for gardening which take me away from the pressures of the civilized world... for a while, anyway.

I don't know how enlightened it is, but I live by one simple rule... be decent. Be decent to other humans, animals, and nature in general... I live one day at a time and just keep putting one foot in front of the other. It's about all I can do.

I don't buy into religions, and I don't think there's a single path to "enlightenment"... the destination isn't happiness, it's the journey...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"I don't know Hay, I've heard that drummers have a reputation for being uh, not so smart."

There's different ways to be "smart". Like me--- I'm a smart ass.

I'm always dancing and trying to help women become better dancers so I'm always pondering this thing called rhythm and trying to figure out where it comes from and whether it can be learned.

When I first started dancing, late in my life, I got myself a metronome and would dance around the floor with the beat of the metronome. I do think it can be learned. But, there are some people I know who, I think, would never in a million years be able to move rhythmically.

After pondering this overnight, I think that some of the worst in this regard are people who are a bit on the Attention Deficit Disorder side of things. I'm very good at staying focused if I have a task.

My humble opinion.

As for enlightenment, I turned away a long time ago from trying to figure out what existence and life are all about. It's not for us to know. We can't know. What's left is to make it all as much fun as I can.

See you on the dance floor!!!

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I've pretty much on the path to dancing the rest of my life away.

Enlightened Dancing.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I think if we wouldn't worry so much about what comes next, we could better enjoy THIS life.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

My paths to enlightenment are music, weight lifting, strength training, sports, cruising, motorcycling, boating, fishing etc.


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

But Hay, can you do the paso doble?


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"But Hay, can you do the paso doble?

So much to do, so little time. So many beautiful women...

Tonight I'm going to be doing West Coast Swing and tomorrow it's Contra.

When I get back, I'm going to be checking out Argentine Tango.

I love it . If you dance, no matter where you go in the world, you can find a room full of beautiful women just standing around waiting for you to come up and ask them if you can hold them and move around the floor for a few minutes to a beautiful song. And they'll smile and say, " I'd love to."

Life is good.

Hillbilly Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

So you can't do it? Only the PD will do it for the finest female dancers...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

There was supposed to be a Swing Dance after the West Coast Swing lesson last night, but they'd forgot that a tour bus full of waddling people were coming to see a Hillbilly band playing your typical Hillbilly music to give them memories to take home.

That was in another ballroom.

Meanwhile there was a 4 week Bronze level Viennese Waltz lesson going on in another room. I'll dance anything, so I wrangled my way into the lesson. I've taken a lot of ballroom lessons over my dancing career but I've never really danced it at all, but, just like riding a bicycle, it all came back and it was fun.

There's not really THAT much difference between dances. They all just do a little twist on the same basic patterns.

Salsa, Polka, Rumba, Mambo, Cajun, Zydeco: They're all Quick, Quick, Slow. Throw in a couple more slows in there and you're dancing Swing, Cha Cha or Two Stepping. All you need to know.

So you can't do it? Only the PD will do it for the finest female dancers...

Take a look at these pictures.

Paso Doble

or

Argentine Tango

Which would you choose if you had a limited amount of time left to dance?

If I want to fight a bull, I'll find a bullring.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

The tango is for commoners...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"The tango is for commoners"

I guess that means us commoners have more fun.

Last night's contra dance was at a college and reminded me of something wonderful about dance. The beautiful women just keep on coming. A hall filled with 160 young people, half of them beautiful women. Bright eyed, energetic and happy to be alive. They're a little awkward now, but that's just part of the fun. They'll get better. I'll help them.

Us Commoners have so much fun.

That was last night. Tonight I'll be joining a bunch of older, more mature and restrained people. Reunion, where we'll sit around and discuss our health issues and reflect on the good ole days. Bunch of old fools.


Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Ahh, youth, it is so fleeting...


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

"Ahh, youth, it is so fleeting..."

For some it's a lot more fleeting.

I got a good fast forward last night. A lot of people seem to have spent the last ** years sitting around eating all day long. A lot of bellies on display.

I think there must have been about 175 in my graduating class and there are about 25 that have now died. 1 in 7. Looking around last night, I can see a lot that are just a few steps away from that.

Which reinforces my thinking these days to grab what I can out of whatever good years I have left. I was talking with one of my relatives who has just retired and I asked him what he plans on doing now. "As little as possible". Me, I'm thinking, "As much as possible".

When I get to the point of not being as mobile, if I still have any money left, I'll build myself a porch like Kwoods, get a rocker and rock away for the rest of my life. I may even buy his. The way he's throwing his money around while he's still young means he'll be needing some money when he gets older.

Save while you're young, not when you're old. It'll grow and grow and you can buy all the porches you'll need when you get old.

Sage advice.

Hay


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

I was thinking while I was walking the stinkers this morning that I should have posted a very valuable "trick" I use, re: meditation and/or breathing.

The act of placing and deliberately holding the tongue against the palate has a really remarkable way of bringing focus to the immediate moment. I like to do it when I want to be very in the "now" during both peaceful moments that I value and frustrating ones that I want to resolve without my feelings getting in the way.

This is nothing original. Everyone who ever taught me about meditation has told me to do this, I even know a woman whose therapist advised her to do it when her mind begins to stray to a painful idea or thought--this lady is going through a messy divorce with kids involved. The therapist advised it as a physiological response to clearing one's mind, not anything spiritual, so I suppose there is some scientific basis (too lazy to google it!).

The only variant seems to be where exactly to put the tongue, on the soft or the hard palate. I put mine on the hard palate right up against my teeth, my friend in therapy puts hers against the soft palate. Worth experimenting with the placement for anyone who thinks it's worth experimenting with in the first place!


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RE: Have you to taken a path to enlightenment? Moony,

Will try it.

Have participated in meditation classes and yoga and pilates but
not heard of this.

It's a lot easier than listening to tapes of Eckhart Tolle~


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