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So what do we do?

Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 8:26

A platoon of marines were dispatched to the Sudan to protect our embassy. American soil, American citizens. The Sudan government would not give them permission. So we turned them around and sent them home. So, should US citizens be left to depend on the Sudan government for their protection?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: So what do we do?

US citizens have been asked to leave the country.


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RE: So what do we do?

That's all you can do, get out and don't go back. What else can you do? You can't install American troops on foreign soil against the will of those people.

Embassies exist at the invitation of the host country and the host country has an obligation to defend the exterior of the embassy. If they do not live up to that expectation at a standard acceptable to the US then get out.


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RE: So what do we do?

Figures.

It's easier to don a ceremonial outfit and drink tea, isn't it?


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RE: So what do we do?

This article has a bit more information in it. Seems the Sudanese refused the special forces becasue it said it had the situation under control and could defend the Embassy.

The government is monitoring the situation to ensure that happens. Meanwhile all non essential personnel are being ordered to leave.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sudan


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RE: So what do we do?

don't you hate it when the OP lies to score points?


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RE: So what do we do?

You are suggesting we invade a sovereign country?

You are kidding, right?

If this is the mindset of Romney and his supporters, we are in BIG TROUBLE.


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Embassies are the sovereign territory of the country installed there. I don't think we would be invading ourselves.

Exactly what lie are you accusing me of Roughseas?


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RE: So what do we do?

Wonder how much aid (tax payer money) we send over there every year.


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Invade...invade..invade....

Yes, the embassy is US territory. How do you suggest the Marines get to that bit of sovereign US territory? We can't exactly beam them in.


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RE: So what do we do?

Only on the inside Mrs, not on the outside. The Marines were intended for external defense.


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RE: So what do we do?

On the internet you can usually tell a post is a lie because there is no link to actually read the article, or they skip a link to the news article & give one to an opinion article.
Frankly, i'm not sure if those who do this know the difference between facts & opinions.

that's been my experience.


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RE: So what do we do?

So what do you think we should do? Send in the marines anyway?

At the link, how the Iranian news agency is reporting this.

US Embassy Guards Ordered to Kill Muslim Protestors

TEHRAN (FNA)- The US troops who have been dispatched to several Middle-East countries to protect the US missions in those countries have received orders for killing the Muslim protestors who are furious at Washington for the recent production and display of a movie insulting Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)."

Swell.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: So what do we do?

What would Romney do?

Attack Iran, attack and occupy countries that attack our Embassies, increase the Defense budget on the backs of those who cannot afford it?

What is Romney's plan?
Shoot first and aim later?


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RE: So what do we do?

Roughseas, On the internet, if one wants to verify something, one has the ability to look it up themself, that is ...if they know how to search. your comment to mrsk reflects totally back to you and not at all on her.


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 11:10

Actually, if one is posting a comment based on something on the internet, common sense, and courtesy, say that posting a link to that would be REALLY helpful, unless of course, it's not really helpful.

It's very easy for any OP to find a link and post it on the HT Forum to support comments. It's rare that anyone else would be able to find the original story, especially if only a few sentences are posted.


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RE: So what do we do?

your comment to mrsk reflects totally back to you and not at all on her.

I disagree. The OP and its closing question can only be made if one ignores the realties of embassies in foreign countries. U.S. embassies are sovereign territories, but arriving at that embassy involves negotiating the host country's air space and/or land. Logisitics re Julian Assange's transit to Ecuador are a reflection of these realities.

If there were not a history of disingenuous OPs from this participant, I might agree with your assertion.


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RE: So what do we do?

Wow mom, where have you been. Let's see, how many times have we asked maddie for the link to back up her claim that Romney cheats on his taxes? Where were you preaching common sense, and courtesy?

And nancy..If there were not a history of disingenuous OPs from this participant, I might agree with your assertion. Meaning, if she's not spouting the liberal talking points, she is being disingenuous.

I truly wish that liberals would sometimes speak as if they had minds of their own. Stop with the me too, me too, and piling on anyone who disagrees with them.

I think demi said it best on another post. In the last few months there have been some new additions. Dem operatives maybe? I don't know. Just especially hateful rhetoric that even the formerly more even keeled liberals have taken up. It's almost like a game of who can be the most nasty. I know I've been spending less and less time here myself. What are you going to do when those who don't agree with you are all driven away? Will you eat your own?


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RE: So what do we do?

Yes, we will have our own hunger games. There can only be one victor! I say it should be me.


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RE: So what do we do?

Meaning, if she's not spouting the liberal talking points, she is being disingenuous.

Not at all. My comments are based on your numerous OPs parrotting Breitbart, Joseph Farah's site, and that other right-wing blog that you like, HotAir. A number of us present you with the factual evidence that your information is incorrect, and then you ignore our comments and continue to repeat the debunked points.

Over and over and over...


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RE: So what do we do?

There can only be one victor! I say it should be me.

In case you lose, I have first dibs on your tomato plants.

Let's you and him fight!!


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RE: So what do we do?

Mrs, do you have an opinion on your own OP?

I don't have a problem with opinions that don't provide links. I can have an opinion without having to support it with external sources.

However I do have a problem with what appears to be a statement of fact, with no supporting information or context, that is followed by a question.

How am I to make an informed response? Sure I can go looking for information, which I do, but I have no way of knowing if what I find is within the context that the OP intended and if I get it wrong I'm the bad guy.


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RE: So what do we do?

"So, should US citizens be left to depend on the Sudan government for their protection?"

Has Condi Rice weighed in? I would be interested in knowing how she would handle this.


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RE: So what do we do?

nonsense jmc, the op presented something as fact that is a lie.

it' reflects on her & only her.

as I said , if you don't link, chances are you are lying. We all make mistakes, but it can be remedied with a link.. something the OP has avoided, since nothing backs up what she stated.

the post wasn't interested in america or the truth, it was interested in spouting political garbage.
I think we're all tired of that type of post.


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RE: So what d we do?

thank you nancy & mom47.

chase, yes, any opinion is fine, just not presented as facts
it's also nice to say when your opinion comes from a tv actor like rush or colbert.


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RE: So what do we do?

"So, should US citizens be left to depend on the Sudan government for their protection?"

Yes. Would you like troops of each foreign country parading around Washington DC 'protecting' their embassies and consulates?


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 14:16

To answer the question - yes, US citizens must be left to depend on the Sudanese (or any) government for their protection, just as citizens of all other countries must depend on the US government for their protection.


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RE: So what do we do?

Calling me a liar again Roughseas, I really don't take kindly to that, it is against the forum rules for one thing. I'm not, for another.

Foreign minister Ali Karti received a call from an assistant to the U. S. Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton who expressed the desire of the American Administration to dispatch a special force to protect its embassy in Khartoum following the protests in the Islamic world.

Karti "has declined to authorise the deployment of these forces affirming Sudan�s ability to protect foreign diplomatic missions in Khartoum and reiterated the State�s obligation to protect its guests members of diplomatic missions," the official news agency said.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: So what do we do?

The question remains Mrs...what do you think that the US should do?


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RE: So what do we do?

"as I said , if you don't link, chances are you are lying."

Where's your link supporting this awesome piece of wisdom?


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RE: So what do we do?

So what do you think they should do chase? Personally, I haven't made a decision on that.


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RE: So what do we do?

Dem operatives maybe?

Another one of your (many) unfounded accusations, based on nothing but your own paranoia.

I truly wish that liberals would sometimes speak as if they had minds of their own. Stop with the me too, me too,
I think demi said it best on another post.

Mrsk do you see the irony of that statement. Isn't that exactly what you did. Me too'd Demi. Another example of do as you say not as you do.


In your world people correcting your misinformation is a "pile on".


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RE: So what do we do?

epi, exactly what did you correct, exactly what information that I posted was incorrect?

And do you really believe that because I used what demi said on another post is in anyway the kind of me too's that go on with the liberals. I've seen the very personal insults made toward CW. One starts, and then it's just one after another. And not one of you have any sense of shame for the rest.


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RE: So what do we do?

Roughseas, you are a troll. There is not one thing in the OP that can be called a lie or even misleading. It was all over the television reporting and in numerous websites. The idea of requiring a link to make a post valid is not valid. You want a link, type in a search for "Sudan refuses Marines permission", it's not hard. You will get at least 32,800,000 results. Did I bother to read them all, no. It wasn't necessary. You can do that if you want to waste time. It is no surprise that there are few MSM reports in the first couple of pages of listings.

Other countries involved in this mess have not refused permission. It looks to me like the Sudanese are trying to save face and really don't trust us at the same time.

You post nothing that reflects any individual thought of your own. You just spout accusations, make claims that are total fabrications and posture. I expect that you receive exactly the same correspondence as Lily and several other posters here. Why don't you try to make an actual educated comment by forming your own thoughts after reading more than what is contained in your instruction sheet from your political cronies or in your case, are they handlers?

Every post of yours I have seen in the few threads I bother to read here anymore, is nothing but snark or regurgitated garbage from an administration that seems to be running around blindly, not knowing what to do or how to do it. The truth is they were totally blindsided and just plain can't or won't admit it.

I wonder how the Prez feels now about his claims of being the one who killed Osama.


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RE: So what do we do?

"Dem operatives maybe?"

"Another one of your (many) unfounded accusations, based on nothing but your own paranoia."

Looks like a question to me, an accusation would end with a period.
____________________________________________________

Jon, as far as I'm aware, foreign embassies located in the US do have security staff from that particular country. Of course they don't parade around, everything is kept secure and low key.


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RE: So what do we do?

Posted by Roughseas none (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 9:32

On the internet you can usually tell a post is a lie because there is no link to actually read the article, or they skip a link to the news article & give one to an opinion article.
Frankly, i'm not sure if those who do this know the difference between facts & opinions.

that's been my experience.

*

Your experience is not a fact.

Apparently you don't know the difference.


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RE: So what do we do?

Mrs , I answered your question way up thread. To Roughseas post I think if you had linked to the information you finally linked to rather than trying to skew the information it would have been much better received and could have resulted in good conversation

Your OP was not factual.

The troops were never dispatched to Sudan

The troops were not sent back.....they were never there

The request was not to protect Americans on American soil. The request was to place troops outside of the Embassy which is clearly the domain of the host country.

The Sudanese reiterated their commitment and ability to protect the American Embassy and they have so far done so.

Lavander it is accepted protocol around the world that the host country provides external security while the embassy provided security within the embassy. You will often see ceremonial guards at some embassy doors but not armed guards.


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RE: So what do we do?

epi, exactly what did you correct, exactly what information that I posted was incorrect?

Pick a thread Mrsk. There are so many of them out there to choose from. I know that I for one have called you out numerous times. On any one of them you will see me and many other posters correcting your lies and misinformation on a number of subjects.

The common demoninator on all these threads is your disdain the President, liberals (or those you have decided are) and anyone who doesn't agree with you.

And do you really believe that because I used what demi said on another post is in anyway the kind of me too's that go on with the liberals.

Yes. We see it all the time with you and Demi including the threads you start solely to attack other posters. Demi is right there justifying your bad behavior. Then of course there is Elvis, who does does little but play head peanut in the peanut gallery. You can pretend you don't know what I am talking about but most posters here do. You and I have had words on those threads also so don't try to feign innocence. You aren't. Your tarnished halo fell off long ago.

I've seen the very personal insults made toward CW. One starts, and then it's just one after another. And not one of you have any sense of shame for the rest.

Then you have also seen the insults and attacks and antagonistic statements that CW has posted. There is nothing shameful in correcting bigotry or lies but there is in posting them. I don't see you upset over those. There is a simple remedy. If she stops posting tripe no one will call her out on it. The same with you.

the post wasn't interested in america or the truth, it was interested in spouting political garbage.
I think we're all tired of that type of post

Many of us are RS but as you will see as the election draws near it will get uglier and uglier.

This nonsense of operatives or handlers is desperation and absurd. They can't make a case so they resort to nonsense like this.

The paranoia and anxiety grows as Romney’s numbers slowly decline. If history repeats itself the false accusations will only get worse.


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RE: So what do we do?

"To Roughseas post I think if you had linked to the information you finally linked to rather than trying to skew the information it would have been much better received and could have resulted in good conversation
Your OP was not factual."

exactly. opinion presented as fact.
Supporters hate when that's pointed out,
& use words like "troll"

I've read many posts that start with an accusation,
no link, that implies or states things that arent' true.
it explains the lack of a link.

Now that's Trolling. the mrs does it often.


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RE: So what do we do?

chase, google is your friend. When you wish to excoriate me for not being factual...make sure that you yourself are please.

With the Marines en route to Sudan on Friday night, a U.S. official said at the time that it appeared that Sudan might reverse an earlier decision to allow the 50 Marines to enter the country.

Sudan�s reversal was made public today when Sudan�s Foreign Minister Ali Ahmed Karti told SUNA, the official Sudanese news agency, that "Sudan is able to protect the diplomatic missions in Khartoum and the state is committed to protecting its guests in the diplomatic corps."

A U.S. official said the Marines, "were on their way, but turned back" when Sudan rejected the U.S. request.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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RE: So what do we do?

epip
The common demoninator on all these threads is your disdain the President, liberals (or those you have decided are) and anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Then you have also seen the insults and attacks and antagonistic statements that CW has posted. There is nothing shameful in correcting bigotry or lies but there is in posting them. I don't see you upset over those. There is a simple remedy. If she stops posting tripe no one will call her out on it. The same with you.
***********************************************************

mrsk, I know the answer to this solution is for "the heathens"(conservatives & others) to drink the
spiked punch, get in line on the left and re-dedicate
our lives to worshipping Obama and agreeing with everything the liberals say .

Then we would be "liked" too!
Then we would be called intelligent, informed, free
thinkers, educated, brilliant, well-read and a
born-again liberal.

Just how important is it for you to be accepted by
the "free-thinkers" on this forum?
Enough to give up your values, who you are as a person?

I didn't think so .
Me neither

Keep on keeping on mrsk. You are respected by some and thats all that counts.


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RE: So what do we do?

"Sudan has rejected a U.S. request to send 50 Marines to that country to help boost security at the American embassy in Khartoum, a U.S. official confirms."

there's the truth. no wonder there was not a link in the OP.

We asked, as any country would have to ask. Nothing like the OP implied.


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RE: So what do we do?

OH, CW, your post would actually be funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.

You and your friends here on HT have already drunk the "spiked punch" and just don't realize it. The spiked punch from the far right wing of the conservative party.

Apparently reality isn't something you can see and deal with. Instead you just spout out the talking points of the R&R crew. You can't see the reality from the fantasy, the lies, and flip flops of your candidates.

What are you going to say and do when your supported party and the R&R crew are just a footnote in the history books as another campaign goes in the win column for Obama?


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RE: So what do we do?

Chase, the troops were on board the ships that are now posted around the area. They are part of the Fleet contingent. Right now their "home" is aboard those ships. The US asked for permission to allow some of them to go in to guard the US Embassy. The Sudan refused to allow the US Marines to take over the job from them. The ships are still there. The Marines are still on the ship.

I will repeat, there are no lies in the OP. What is your problem? Do you just want to join in an attack on someone? Occasionally you show some degree of rational independent thought but you join in the pack mentality shown on this forum far too often. Do you think that somehow Obama is going to emerge as some sort of hero from all this and Canada will somehow be enhanced and rewarded through him? You don't even have a point of your own. You just can't stand having Obama's decisions or lack thereof questioned it seems.

I wonder how he feels to hear the protesters chants of "We are all Osamas!"? Of more immediate interest, how do you feel about it? How do you feel about the protests in France, and Belgium and England and Australia?


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RE: So what do we do?

Just how important is it for you to be accepted by
the "free-thinkers" on this forum?
Enough to give up your values, who you are as a person?

*

I don't think so, Citywoman~

I couldn't care less whether I am accepted by people on this forum that consider themselves "free thinkers."

Not one person on this forum is any more of a free thinker than I am--the fact that we think different things has nothing to do with free thinking.

You all can argue and call names all you want.

I'm enjoying the next few months and whoever is elected, I am going to have the best life I can, and make sure those I care about do as well. Always have, always will, regardless of politics.

I can assure you I will be prepared whether Obama is reelected or if Romney wins.

Hope you all are taking care of your business yourself and noone is dependent on Barack Hussein Obama Mmmm Mmmmm Mmmm to make your life better.

Good luck with that--but then you've had almost four years of a heads up!

*

Maybe if we get a new president we'll get better security for our State Department Employees.


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RE: So what do we do?

chase, google is your friend. When you wish to excoriate me for not being factual...make sure that you yourself are please.
.
This is what YOUR OWN LINK above says:
Also another official said that the Pentagon was discussing whether to send a platoon of 50 anti-terrorism Marines to Khartoum, but a asserted that no decision has been taken yet.

This from Chases's link:

The Pentagon has indicated that it is examining the possibility of sending Marines to Sudan after deploying them in Yemen and Libya,

and this from the Detroit Free Press

WASHINGTON -- Objections by Sudan's government have held up the security mission of an elite Marine team that the U.S. planned to send to Khartoum, a U.S. official said Saturday.
As a result, the deployment was delayed and possibly curtailed, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to disclose details about the troop movement.

There are many others reporting that the Marines were never deployed to Sudan, only Yemen and Libya.

So Mrsk, YOU linked to two sources with conflicting reports. Which one is accurate and which one is wrong?


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RE: So what do we do?

troops never deployed.


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RE: So what do we do?

I agree with you 100% Demi.

This forum is a few minutes of the day only.
Thank goodness.

I too am ready for the election and will not have to
be dependent in any way for anything from Obama if he
wins.

I have a small 1br cottage over on the lake that I can retreat to after his 4 years if I have to.
I fear if Obama is re-elected it will NOT be the next 4 years that will be bad.
He will be putting all his dreams and schemes into motion.

It will be the many years after that will be davastating.


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RE: So what do we do?

Talk about paranoia.

That fear mongering is really going into high gear now.

Panic mode is gearing up.


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It will be the many years after that will be davastating.

*

That's right, citywoman.
Short sighted people, eh?

No paranoia, just what we believe is likely to happen.

In any event, we will be prepared.

We're ants, not whining grasshoppers!

:)


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 17:53

"It will be the many years after that will be devastating."

Oh Indeed, Bush's legacy is haunting


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RE: So what do we do?

It will be the many years after that will be davastating.

You mean like the many years that we have been going through now because of the Repubs that you do not want Obama to talk about. You are funny.

Remember what Clinton said.
"They handed over a mess and Obama did not clean up our mess fast enough so give it back."

Not if I can help it. I am not giving it back. If your party can piss away a surplus and tank my property values and stocks I am not in any hurry to let them take my net worth down further. The stocks are soaring and property values are coming back.

I do not want to be forced to rough it camping in a trailer park. Help yourself.


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RE: So what do we do?

You have got to be kidding. I was going to ask how stupid do you think we are but I think after the irrational question about different sources that essentially say the same thing, it should be how stupid are you? The reports are not conflicting. They show only that they were made by different sources at different times. And what does the placing of Marines in our Embassies in Egypt and Libya have to do with the refusal of Sudan to permit it? They are different countries!!!

Did your talking points memo get delayed somehow? How terrible to be left so adrift! Tell me,please tell me. Are all links now only allowed to be based on one official, one statement about a situation? Who vets those reports and makes sure they all match up so that liars are easily caught and exposed? Really, are all reporters and commentators required to use the same words, the same timeline, the same source? Should I get identical words from a Sudanese report as I see in a report from the Whitehouse or the Pentagon or the State Department? Certainly they wouldn't have different objectives would they?

I repeat, do a search for "Sudan refuses US Marines permission". It is very unlikely any of them will disagree on the basic facts even when the words are different. When I looked there were 32,800,000 hits. There are likely more now. The speculation as to the reasons may very well vary but then speculation and opinions are still permitted aren't they?.


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RE: So what do we do?

If you read the posts absolutely no one denied that Sudan refused to allow the marines so I am not sure what your tirade is about.

Perhaps you should read what people are responding to before you go off on something else.


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RE: So what do we do?

The question asked: So, should US citizens be left to depend on the Sudan government for their protection?

How about some answers from the poster and other righties?


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The truth can be just one answer, lies are legion and impossible to keep track of. If they will not protect our Embassy we should get out. If we perceive that our people are in danger because they cannot or will not protect our Embassy we should get out. Of course we could then do as Willard dreams and nuke them. But it i their responsibility so should we hold Libya responsible and bring the ones to trial that did not protect our Embassy, a resounding yes and that is what our president said.


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I simply can't believe the paranoia in people I had thought rational until lately. what the heck exactly do you think that President Obama is going to do....will you articulate it?

No President has the power to do that which you fear. Your stystem precludes that unless of course "they" are all in it together and from what I have seen of your Congress the last thing they are is in it together...


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RE: So what do we do?

I simply can't believe the paranoia in people I had thought rational until lately. what the heck exactly do you think that President Obama is going to do....will you articulate it?

No President has the power to do that which you fear. Your stystem precludes that unless of course "they" are all in it together and from what I have seen of your Congress the last thing they are is in it together...


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The difference between any other president and Obama is there has never been a US President to hate this country and he does. You can call me names, but it won't change who he is as a person. You can bury your head in the sand, you can stamp your feet or do anything else you want to declare your love of him, but again, the fact is he's a socialist and he will ruin this country if he gets another 4 years.

Then again since his plan to ruin our economy will also affect the entire world my prediction is someone from afar will come here to take him out.

He's like most stupid thugs, they use their smarts to do bad things to those they hate instead of using them for good. In the end they lose.


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RE: So what do we do?

How about your snide query to Mrskjun about conflicting statements, epi., being the last straw. Repetition of a lie accusing someone else of lying is hardly proof of your own honesty. She was asking what the options are and you know that is what she was asking.

"There are many others reporting that the Marines were never deployed to Sudan, only Yemen and Libya.

So Mrsk, YOU linked to two sources with conflicting reports. Which one is accurate and which one is wrong?"

Talk about a loaded question. There is no reason conflicting articles cannot both be correct in their own time and place or even from your point of view. But you don't even seem to know the definition of deploy.

The Marines are deployed. Being on the ship off the coast within reach of Sudan is deployment. The entire ship has been deployed no matter what the final destination may be. They are prepared for action.

There is no statement of mrskjun's that is a lie. She asked a question which none of you have the courtesy to answer, except to accuse her of wanting to invade another country and then accuse Romney of the same thing. I think you have all lost it.

You and roughseas and Nancy as well as others keep insisting she is somehow lying. I think you are the ones making up lies to attempt to shift blame and attention away from the real cause of the problem which is Obama's grandiose claims and promises.

I wonder how well Obama sleeps at night after hearing the protesters shouting "We are all Osamas"? You think he still preens about how he stoked up his base by claiming the credit? BTW I haven't been hearing Joe Biden proclaiming his new slogan in the past couple of days. I wonder why that is?


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OMG....that is so over the top and way scary. How on earth does one come to such extreme positions? I have seen this type of ranting on extreme websites but the GW? Is this the thinking of mainstream conservatives? What the heck is happening?

GGM can you provide any specific examples of what the President has said or done that leads you to think what you do?

I too worry that this incredible hatred of President Obama may result on his assassination but from within the States and sadly I believe that many will not be all that upset.


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I refuse to cater to the lies , spin, & disingenuous ways of the right.
We all know from history what happens when that is allowed to
happen


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RE: So what do we do?

The difference between any other president and Obama is there has never been a US President to hate this country and he does.

Oh my lord. That statement, that belief just boggles the mind.

Is this your mind believing this or do you have some proof to back up this statement?

It is so absurd, so crazy, so insane a belief, that Chase, you are so correct when you say,

OMG....that is so over the top and way scary. How on earth does one come to such extreme positions? I have seen this type of ranting on extreme websites but the GW? Is this the thinking of mainstream conservatives? What the heck is happening

Apparently it is becoming more and more mainstream, more so since the days to the election are slowly winding down.

Romney didn't get any bump in the polls falling "his convention", he is falling in those polls and Obama keeps surging ahead.

I too worry about the safety of our President and his family. This hatred is bound to boil over in this country at some point; the end result will not be a pretty one, no matter how it turns out. I just hope it isn't the worst fears that both of us have.


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RE: So what do we do?

Sleepless you need to read the thread again. Several of us did answer directly. Posts from most conservatives did not address the question nor any of the direct responses to the question ...including the poster herself.


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RE: So what do we do?

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 21:19

"I too worry that this incredible hatred of President Obama may result on his assassination but from within the States and sadly I believe that many will not be all that upset."

That's a horrible thing to say.


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RE: So what do we do?

We have friends in Paris (former exchange student) and, after the election in 2008 she emailed me that her 10-year-old son, who had been following the election told her he was afraid that someone would try to kill Obama. That's how the hatred plays in Europe, I'm thinking. It is so over-the-top that people can't imagine it without thinking that the object of the hatred is in a life-threatening position.

No ggm, I won't call you names. But, I think you need to go back on your meds. That's just crazy talk. Please get some help. Because it doesn't make any sense at all, unless you are talking to fellow-haters. (See, I can use the word "hate," also, but my use is more on the money than yours.)


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 21:57

The vitriol, and hatred, in that post is stunning, apparently today's sermon was a real barn burner.

President Obama doesn't hate America, and he's not a socialist, where in the world do people come up with these ideas. You clearly have no idea what socialism is.

I have to agree with dockside, that is crazy talk. Even George Bush, at his worst, didn't engender hatred like that from anyone, most certainly not from Democrats.

Hatred, like that expressed above, feeds on itself, takes on a life of it's own and ultimately destroys people, usually the people who live this level of hatred, but, sadly, it destroys others too.

Fundamentalist Christians = Fundamentalist Muslims. How sad to be so consumed by hatred.


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RE: So what do we do?

That's a horrible thing to say.

Actually, Elvis, what is horrible is behavior and attitudes that would lead anyone inside this country or outside this country to even begin to think this way.

Thank the GOP/TeaParty and their supporters for anyone thinking as Chase posted and I agreed with.


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RE: So what do we do?

An what GGM posted at 20:51......is AOK????? Unbelievable.....truly unbelievable


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RE: So what do we do?

It's not where I come from Chase, it really makes one really wonder about the sanity of the GOP and their supporters.


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RE: So what do we do?

I truly am astounded with what I have read here the least few days. Paranoia, conspiracy theories, wild a$$ suppositions, unsubstantiated allegations, hateful comments......honestly I have never seen anything like this on a mainstream forum.

Please tell me there are some rational, sane, thinking conservatives out there!


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RE: So what do we do?

I do not take drugs, have never taken drugs nor do I drink. It's Ok if you think I hate Obama and you think I'm horrible. I don't hate the man, I fear what he is doing and what he will continue to do if re elected.

The man has told us over and over again who he is in his own words, written and spoken. If you don't want to hear what he's saying or you interpret it differently then I do that's fine.

When you go off on your tangent about the Republicans I don't call you haters. You are blessed with the ability to think and feel what you want and I'm not on this earth to convince you to think or feel any other way than the way you do.

I will say what I think and if you want to respond by calling me names that OK. I love my country and will do what I can to defend it from socialists and anti Americans by casting my vote for anyone who will not take the office of president for the sole purpose of "changing the country" because of his warped sense of what is right and wrong, fair and not fair. I love my Declaration of Independence and it's history. Some of this country's history is not something to be proud of but overall it's damn good compared to other countries around the world. Millions of people come here to achieve the American dream and Obama is hell bent on taking away those dreams so he can build a country accordig to Obama's way. People come here because we are the richest capitalist country in the world. We have a lot to be proud of and he is trying to take that away to satify his warped sense of "leveling the playing field." If you don't like this country the way it is, maybe you should book a flight to a country where you'd be happier.

So call me whatever makes you happy because your nasty and rude behavior toward me only confirms your inability to accept other's opinions that differ from your own.


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RE: So what do we do?

Posted by greatgollymolly (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 16, 12 at 20:51

The difference between any other president and Obama is there has never been a US President to hate this country and he does. You can call me names, but it won't change who he is as a person. You can bury your head in the sand, you can stamp your feet or do anything else you want to declare your love of him, but again, the fact is he's a socialist and he will ruin this country if he gets another 4 years.

Then again since his plan to ruin our economy will also affect the entire world my prediction is someone from afar will come here to take him out.

Amazing post. And amazing that people like elvis don't see anything wrong with this. There are a few sane people - you won't see demi condone these kinds of statements. She, for example, may not support his policies, but I'm pretty sure she knows that Obama doesn't HATE this country. Nor does he have any specific PLAN to ruin the economy. Demi, for example again, may feel that his policies WILL ruin the country but he has not formulated them specifically to do so (e.g., that is not his goal).

And molly, the statement that it doesn't matter if we call you names ... that's just ridiculous. Of course how we talk about YOU doesn't affect HIM as a person. That doesn't even make sense. But your saying all things about him don't make those things TRUE. Those are just your opinions.


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RE: So what do we do?

The man has told us over and over again who he is in his own words, written and spoken. If you don't want to hear what he's saying or you interpret it differently then I do that's fine.

Got any links to these supposed claimed words that the rest of us can see and read? Maybe we will interpret then differently if we can see them again.

Please provide links to your claims, if you have any, we would like to read them.


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RE: So what do we do?

esh, you are right, it's like I said, that is my opinion of the man. I'm not swinging my fists in the air demanding you believe as I do. We are all blessed with the ability to make our own deductions and form our own opinions.

No littleone, I will not take my time to provide you with information that you can easily find yourself. You are not interested in the information because if you were you'd have it already. If you're interested go look for it yourself.


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RE: So what do we do?

Chase, this emotional hysteria from the right is because they don't have the election locked up like they predicted they would have it locked up.

They thought the vast majority of Americans would be as bat poop crazy about getting rid of their current President as they, themselves are.

The R&R twins might well win, I have no illusions that their President of today has it in the bag come election day.

However, they are now nervous. Very, very nervous. It's not going the way it's supposed to be going, not at all. They were supposed to win this by a landslide and talked about how easy the win would be. Because everyone would agree that their President was such a complete and dismal failure, leading this country into smoking ruin that everyone would be frothing at the mouth to get conservatives into power again so that they could once again lead this country to glory and financial security.

You know, like the last conservative president they voted for (twice) did.

It could have been Huntsman on the ticket against their current President.

Instead, they went down that list of ridiculous, idiotic fools for candidates for the Republican nomination, enthusiastic about each one for a few weeks -

(remember the excitement right here in Hot Topics about that idiotic Pizza Man 999 from many including Mrsk herself?)

- and finally landed on..... with no enthusiasm...... Romney.

......Romney? They stuck themselves with Romney?

It is hysterical reaction at the very *possibility* that they will appear to be such fools come the day after the election.

They were supposed to have this in the BAG. And kept saying so. Over and over again.

Not even those in this forum with a brain could stand up and enthusiastically encourage the right to support Huntsman.
Not a single, solitary one did.
That tells you a lot about the state of the conservative party and the voters in it. They allowed the dust to settle and was forced to settle for Romney.
When they could have had Huntsman! It boggles the mind.

However, I would like to thank them for deciding not to go with someone like Huntsman who came with dignity, deep intelligence, a working knowledge of world affairs and world leaders and a good grasp of internal affairs.

I do not think Obama would have won the election had Huntsman had been enthusiastically supported, and Huntsman is FAR more conservative than Romney ever was. Therefore, I do have something to say to you all who ignored Huntsman.
Thank you. Thank you very much. As decent a person as I suspect Huntsman is, Huntsman is far too conservative for what I think this country needs right now - so I thank you very, very much, from the bottom of my heart, for not giving him a first glance much less a second look.

Coulda had Huntsman!
Coulda, woulda, shoulda!


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RE: So what do we do?

What conservative in their right mind would want a candidate that the far left selected for them?

There's a reason Huntsman fizzled before he got started good.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't know any conservatives that are all upset that Romney may not win.

We're hunkered down getting our ducks in a row and preparing for the worst--and things most likely won't be good even if Romney does get elected--because he will have four years of Obama's mess to clean up, and the mess before that, too.

But upset? Nah. The end of the world? Hardly.

Probably the end of opportunity and life for our children and grandchildren like we wanted. But I believe we get the government we deserve.

The people that blindly and stupidly place all of their trust in the government to make their lives what they want are most likely to suffer and be disappointed. They'll get what they deserve.

Fortunately, I'm not one of them.


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RE: So what do we do?

Why in the world would you think the far left would have EVER chosen Huntsman Demi? He is very, deeply, old time republican conservative, exactly what we would fear the most to run this year! Not a flip flop like the man you will vote for, Huntsman is a true conservative in every sense of the word.

Which is exactly why I'm so grateful he was so roundly ignored. And I suspect I know the reason why, it is contained in his speech he gave when he announced his bid for the primary.

You could have had Huntsman and ignored him.

I will give you credit - you never once personally said you preferred a single solitary candidate out of the list, not that I can recall.

You simply said you would support whoever won the primary and ran against Obama, in that you were willingly transparent and didn't get side tracked by fluffy fluf that surrounded each of the rest of the people on that list.

Sometimes it sounds like some of you are building bomb shelters in case the President is re-elected, I swear it does. An undercurrent of hysteria is beginning to infiltrate the debates in here.

Obama/Biden and their run thus far, despite anything you don't like or trust about him is NOT AT ALL another Bushjr/Cheny and their legacy - so you can rest easy on at least that score. But I suspect you won't.
But do hunker down while hiding that gold in your bank box and the ammo where the liberals won't find it!

Coulda had Huntsman.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda!


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RE: So what do we do?

ggmolly and sleepless. I am not surprised the lefties
came out of the wood work to try and make you look
crazy with mouth foaming.

That was in the e-mail they all got yesterday.
Their e-mail stated they were to go on the defensive
with the "you are crazy and rabid" talk to deflect.

Notice they all say just about verbatim.
Even chase all the way over in Canada gets the
same e-mail.


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RE: So what do we do?

CW, I've been trying very hard to be kind and not respond to you in any way, at any time - but it is an effort requiring ever greater restraint on my part by a seeming lack of restraint on your own.

Good night to you.


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RE: So what do we do?

Liberals can dish it out by the boat loads........
do liberals ever wonder why they can't take
the back lash? I wonder.

Mylab, no restraint on my part for sure.
I learned that from the lefties on here.


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RE: So what do we do?

there is nothing in the OP that is a lie. The immature piling on mentality DOES say more about those doing the piling than the OP.


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RE: So what do we do?

What conservative in their right mind would want a candidate that the independents and moderate democrats would find palatable?

There's a reason Huntsman fizzled before he got started.


-Ron-


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RE: So what do we do?

Gee, the wingnuts are going crazy. Maybe they're reading the polls?? They are truly sounding like they're going off the deep end. It just makes me volunteer more time at Obama HQ. I hope you don't mind , Righties , if I quote the garbage you are spewing here. I want to inflame my fellow workers to give it their all and more to get Obama reelected.

You people have some damn nerve in your hatred of Obama. You gave us the very worse President in our history. Have you forgotten those miserable eight years with dumbo at the helm? How come you were silent then when he led us into two wars..one totally unnecessary? And HE was president when the worse attack in our history occurred. He disregarded intelligence that whole summer while chopping wood in Crawford for six weeks. YOUR president was the problem, and yet there was never the hatred for him as there is for Obama. .


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RE: So what do we do?

The question asked: So, should US citizens be left to depend on the Sudan government for their protection?

How about some answers from the poster and other righties?


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RE: So what do we do?

How about your snide query to Mrskjun about conflicting statements, epi., being the last straw. Repetition of a lie accusing someone else of lying is hardly proof of your own honesty. She was asking what the options are and you know that is what she was asking.

"There are many others reporting that the Marines were never deployed to Sudan, only Yemen and Libya.

So Mrsk, YOU linked to two sources with conflicting reports. Which one is accurate and which one is wrong?"

Talk about a loaded question. There is no reason conflicting articles cannot both be correct in their own time and place or even from your point of view. But you don't even seem to know the definition of deploy.

The Marines are deployed. Being on the ship off the coast within reach of Sudan is deployment. The entire ship has been deployed no matter what the final destination may be. They are prepared for action.

There is no statement of mrskjun's that is a lie. She asked a question which none of you have the courtesy to answer, except to accuse her of wanting to invade another country and then accuse Romney of the same thing. I think you have all lost it.

You and roughseas and Nancy as well as others keep insisting she is somehow lying. I think you are the ones making up lies to attempt to shift blame and attention away from the real cause of the problem which is Obama's grandiose claims and promises.

I wonder how well Obama sleeps at night after hearing the protesters shouting "We are all Osamas"? You think he still preens about how he stoked up his base by claiming the credit? BTW I haven't been hearing Joe Biden proclaiming his new slogan in the past couple of days. I wonder why that is?


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RE: So what do we do?

there is nothing in the OP that is a lie.

Because it is all opinion. Opinions are not lies. Is that what you mean?


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RE: So what do we do?

Dang, and here I thought it was a question!!

Just something I heard on the news, wondered what peoples thoughts were, wasn't sure how I felt about it. Right off I'm called a liar, then chase, chased herself around every post trying to find something to disagree with me on, epi simply attacked. I don't get it.


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RE: So what do we do?

Esh, Bingo!

Mrsk, Double bingo!


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RE: So what do we do?

Of course you get it. Playing the simpering maid does not become you.


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RE: So what do we do?

simpering maid esh...can you liberals ever just make a post that doesn't depend on name calling? So why don't you explain to me, what in my post makes me a "simpering maid"?


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RE: So what do we do?

Esh, I would like to know just what in the OP you think is opinion?


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RE: So what do we do?

I liked your question MrsK. Looked like one for good discussion. I'm not going to answer the OP, as it's already a dead thread. (I don't read over the weekend, so when I see a post that is this high of a number so quickly, I figure it's a fight. Sure 'nuf. I am sorry. It was a good question worthy of opinions and it started with some other good opinions, further info, and then quickly deteriorated.) It's a complete and utter shame.


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RE: So what do we do?

Oh dang, I thought I was on the thread by greatgollymolly. That one was all opinion. You're right - this one was simply a question.

Apologies mrskjun. You're right, I don't know why someone thought your OP was a lie.


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RE: So what do we do?

it was the posters typical disingenuous post. all innocent ,like "do you still beat your wife",IMO


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RE: So what do we do?

It sounded level-headed to me, roughseas. Really it did. That doesn't always happen. Started very middle of the road. Unless you were looking for something....... I don't see it. I find myself somewhat detached from what goes on here, so maybe I am wrong. MrsK can be touchy (like some others!), but this thread didn't start out that way; "this time" might even be called for. But not this time for certain.


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RE: So what do we do?

So many US citizens are unfamiliar with international diplomatic protocols, traditions, laws, and so on. It is the host county's responsibility to protect embassies.

I'll grant that the OP may have heard something about embassies being sovereign American Ground, and I'm sure FOX News and the rest are hollering about sending in the marines to deal with the protestors.

A reminder of what happened in London back in the day, when there were lots of protestors outside the Libyan Embassy, and somebody inside the embassy took a shot and killed one of the British policewomen, Yvonne Fletcher.


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RE: So what do we do?

Mrskjun, I appreciate your obviously sincere attempt to get this forum back to discussing topics, although hot ones (which is the purpose).

I know exactly how you feel, having started a post the last few days with the same intent.

The escalation of name calling, misrepresentation of posts, speculation about motives of why conservatives post, and outright personal insults for only giving your opinion or starting a thread has become the main focus of this forum, and that's too bad. I don't know what happened during the last six or eight months but it is different than the previous years of participation. I think new players and a few older ones took their cues from a couple of particularly partisan and nasty sources--who knows, maybe they were recruited.

In any event, you can't argue with people that start out with a personal vendetta and only because you think differently than they do--the most bigotry I've ever witnessed is right here on this forum, under the guise of "intelligence."

The good thing is, regardless of who wins this presidential election, mrskjun, most every other conservative leaning posters and I will not wake up the next day looking for a fight and intentionally misrepresenting other people's opinions. There are many other posters here, liberal leaning and of other views that will also not wake up the next day looking for a fight and intentionally misrepresenting other people's opinions.

Unfortunately, there are enough that do.

Carry on with the taunts, accusations, and lies.


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RE: So what do we do?

The good thing is, regardless of who wins this presidential election, mrskjun, most every other conservative leaning posters and I will not wake up the next day looking for a fight and intentionally misrepresenting other people's opinions.

If only the Republicans in Congress would feel the same way.

It's time for our elected officials to work together - for a change! A change in our circumstances, that is. And I believe we can really only move forward in this economy when our representatives come together for the good of the country.


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RE: So what do we do?

That is my fervent hope, too, esh, but I'm not having much hope about it. :/


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RE: So what do we do?

Robb, given the OP's like "He is all we need" ( & many more like it), it's impossible to believe this post of hers wasn't more of the same disingenuous claptrap.

Reading the rightwing "i'm so innocent , i don't know what you mean" statements just makes their motives more self evident.

was I wrong on this one? I dont' think so, given the history.Out of respect for you, I'll consider it though


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RE: So what do we do?

Another hen that wants to cluck cluck about other posters.

Just what we need.


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RE: So what do we do?

I saw it more as, after a break MrsK came back-a bit calmer and more refreshed-and posted a thought. While there was some of her some opinion behind it, she still opened a discussion that could've been met in the middle. So I am looking at past history. I don't think she was merely offline because of the hurricane, it seemed like more than that (sometime before it hit, she was on hiatus).


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RE: So what do we do?

Roughseas, how about reading what is written, not what you dream up. When you twist someone's words to fit your own agenda or make them up it does not make your case stronger. Announcing that someone is a liar is not reasonable discourse. It is being a bully. Insults don't win you points of some sort, even on this forum.

Several posters here use that tactic. They are easy to ignore mostly. If they show so little respect for the words of others why should I (or any one else) respect their words? Just parroting the latest talking points(talking points are really,really easy to recognize)and making nasty accusations does not give me a reason to read those posts.

Convince me.


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RE: So what do we do?

If some posters would quit regularly posting lies and mis-statements and out-of-context statements (which all give the appearance of being lies to some degree) and quit making provocative statements mainly to irritate the other side (trolling), it might be easier to give a post the benefit of the doubt, but especially when one has a LONG HISTORY of posting provocative and misleading posts, she teaches us, through her actions, to always be ready to suspect her posts are up to no good.

One of her favorite tactics is posting the so-called "innocent" statement of a "fact" (which usually is a mis-statement in some way of what is really going on or implies Obama is somehow at fault but she doesn't directly say it, so she can proclaim her "innocence"). Then after a number of people respond, she comes back with her "gotcha" line (in her opinion) which was what the so-called "innocent" statement was the set-up for.

Myself, I gave up playing that game with her some time ago and advise the rest of you to refuse playing her game with her also. If she really was undecided about some info she posted, all she has to do is say she is undecided (and WHY would be helpful info) and therefore solicit others' opinions. Instead, she waits until everybody is snarling at each other, then she returns and "innocently" says she has no opinion which is why she asked the question. Of course, that info is never volunteered until AFTER she has everybody all riled up over the implied meaning of her post. Enough--don't play her game.

Kate


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RE: So what do we do?

Poor Kate. Have I won an debate with you so easily? Did you not make it out the door fast enough? I've always liked you, but one can certainly tell that the feeling isn't mutual.


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RE: So what do we do?

I totally agree Kate. Even after only being here a short time, it was clear to me that was the point of almost all her posts. And it was best to just ignore them.

And, I learned from MrsK that if you just add 'lol' after everything you say, then you don't have to own your own words.


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RE: So what do we do?

Me too me too posts!~


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RE: So what do we do?

Another me too...agreeing with Kate.


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RE: So what do we do?

kate gets it. thats their game


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RE: So what do we do?

OK, demi, so you are allowed to come into posts to agree with MrsK or nik or CW (perhaps the term "BINGO" sounds familiar to you?), but if someone comes into a post to agree with someone you do not agree with, well, then we're just mindlessly me-too'ing. Uh huh, that makes sense.


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RE: So what do we do?

I think there's something more to demi's "me too me too posts!~"

But I'd just be second guessing.


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RE: So what do we do?

Well, I wish someone would clue me in to what the "more" is.


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RE: So what do we do?

When I first started here, most people were pretty respectful in their posts. We disagreed, sometimes pretty hotly. maddie would post one of her snarky posts, calling conservatives names, usually something ugly, and it was a jolt. Out of the norm. Now it's the norm among most liberal posters here. They know what each conservative poster thinks, they know what their motivations are for every post, they call into question their intelligence, their compassion, their beliefs, and their honesty.

You can turn around and attack me for posting this, or you can take some time and reflect on the truthfulness of the statement.


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 18:28

You may be right, but your snarky comment at the end undoes anything good in your first paragraph.


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RE: So what do we do?

They know what each conservative poster thinks, they know what their motivations are for every post, they call into question their intelligence, their compassion, their beliefs, and their honesty.

Obama does love his Muslims.

Yep.

-Ron-


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RE: So what do we do?

It was not my intention to be snarky mom, not sure why you took it that way.


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RE: So what do we do?

Snark goes both ways.


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RE: So what do we do?

We had theater riots right around the corner here ancient history
Astor Place Theater Riots.
Carefully worded pamphlets inflamed the mob with a suggestion shall ""SHALL AMERICANS OR ENGLISH RULE THIS CITY?" geeze it was 1849 the war was over ages ago it was over these were actors for Pete sake.
Didn't stop the mob from doing what mobs do & by the time it was over 25 people were dead.
I suppose if US troops had been sent in and that riled up the mobs K would be licking her chops over that also. (it's just a suggestion mind you that she has a win win no matter what but for the most part the posts are set up with this vantage point)
I'm not hearing "it my opinion that"


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RE: So what do we do?

You can turn around and attack me for posting this, or you can take some time and reflect on the truthfulness of the statement.

Beautifully passively aggressive. A real work of art.


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RE: So what do we do?

My friends call me a pollyanna esh. But here I don't really have those kinds of expectations...good thing huh?


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RE: So what do we do?

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 19:38

Your original comments were well thought out and well presented.

Then you suggested that we would probably turn around and attack you, and then you told us, as the only other option, to reflect on the truthfulness of your statement. Truth is very subjective.

To assume that we would attack you comes across as condescending. To then tell us to reflect on the truthfulness of your statement, as an option to attacking you belittles us, by saying that you don't even think we are capable of anything but attack.

A lot is lost in the written word, we can't see anyone's face or hear their tone of voice, so I suspect there is some misunderstanding for that reason alone.

I think it's important to read and edit comments before we post, especially on this forum. Reading it to yourself to get a feel for how something is going to sound to the faceless readers on the forum will ensure that you are saying exactly what you want to say, and how you want to say it.


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RE: So what do we do?

We had theater riots right around the corner here ancient history
Astor Place Theater Riots.

Or the 1943 Zoot Suit Riots in Los Angeles.







...most people were pretty respectful in their posts.

That's not my memory of HT. There was a tag-team of defenders of the Iraq invasion who freely hurled charges of traitor at anyone questioning the legitimacy of the invasion and occupation. If you mentioned the word 'neoconservative' you were accused of being an anti-Semite, and if you didn't denounce the entire two billion+ Muslims on the planet as terrorists, questioned the use of torture, extraordinary rendition or the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo, or objected to the vilification of Muslims and/or Islam, you were anti-U.S.

Then there were (and still are) the 'baby killers' and 'blame America first' charges. I forgot which bad name was reserved for those favoring immigration reform that included some sort of amnesty. A Christian favoring same-sex marriage brought the charge of apostasy.

What I think has changed is the paranoia among a certain segment on the right. Where it previously was concentrated on terrorism, Islam, and Muslims, after the 2008 election it seemed to coalesce around Barack Obama. The emergence of the Tea Party, the birthers, and now the 2016ers added another level of ... what to call it - fear-choked fantasy? in regards to the character and policies of President Barack Obama.

I find it difficult to participate in a discussion when charges, unsupported by any evidence, are hurled at President Obama. There are reasons to criticize various policies and initiatives, but these are rarely, if ever, the subject of the paranoid-fueled diatribes from the right.


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RE: So what do we do?

Definition:
Pol-ly-an-na-ish. unreasonably or illogically optimistic

That is not you, mrskjun. At least, not here.


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RE: So what do we do?

"RE: So what do we do?"

Pull our people out--but only if we care whether they live or die. I don't think we can trust the Sudan government to protect our people in the embassy against the savage out of control mob.

If someone can see any point in keeping our people in harm's way, please explain that.


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RE: So what do we do?

Cut off contact with them and we lose in too many ways to list.(I'm sure you can come up with half a dozen ways) The extremists win in any way that counts.


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