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Canada Silences Scientists

Posted by jodik 5 (My Page) on
Wed, Sep 25, 13 at 13:44

From the Interview...

"TZEPORAH BERMAN: The tar sands are the single largest industrial project on earth. The scale is almost incomprehensible, if you've never been there. They are not only the single reason that Canada's climate pollution is going up, that we will not meet even the weak targets, even the weak targets, that have been set, but they're also the most toxic project in the country; they're polluting our water and air. The tar sands produces 300 million liters of toxic sludge a day that is just pumped into open pit lakes that now stretch about 170 kilometers across Canada. And, you know, one of the important things about what is happening in Canada right now is that Canadian policy on climate change, on environment, on many issues is being held hostage to the goal that this federal government, the Harper government and the oil industry have, of expanding the tar sands no matter what the cost. Oil corrodes, it is corroding our pipelines and leading to spills and leaks that are threatening our communities, but it is also corroding our democracy. What we're seeing in Canada is, the, literally, the elimination of 40 years of environmental laws in the last two years in order to make way for quick expansion of tar sands and pipelines. I mean, the Keystone is not the only pipeline this industry is proposing. It is a spider of pipelines across North America so that they can try and expand this dirty oil as quickly as possible."

Lots more at the link!

This doesn't bode well for our climate, our water sources, our very planet... and the politics reek of American political tactics and the greed behind everything...

Here is a link that might be useful: Tar Sands Push...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

Canada is already exporting petcoke. A byproduct that is more harmful than coal.

Petcoke is over 90 percent carbon and emits 5 to 10 percent more carbon dioxide (CO2) than coal on a per-unit-of-energy basis when it is burned. As petcoke has a higher energy content, petcoke emits between 30 and 80 percent more CO2 than coal per unit of weight. Wiki


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As much as I cannot abide this PM this disregard for our environment started with the last Liberal Government.

We actually used to be leaders in environmental concerns...now it's all about the bottom line.

It is the only thing about Canada that shames me.


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At least you don't have political entities trying to deny health care, or probe you or test you, or any of the myriad other negative issues we have to deal with... be glad. ;-)

But still, much like Cheney pushed Jim Hansen onto the back burner, trying to silence the truth about global warming, there seems to be a push on to keep fallacy alive in favor of the almighty dollar...

And even though the public is mostly aware of the pollution and climate change issues, there seems to be a new oil and gas boom going on. What are our leaders thinking??


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I just love articles like this one.

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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More denial...


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LOL.

What ever the cause, the earth's climate is warming. And there's no escaping it, intellectually, physically, politically, socially. It may be natural interglacial warming or it may be what man has done, or, more likely, a combination of the two, but the climate is warming. And at some time in the future, a tipping point will be reached and the climate will head the other way. That will probably take millions and millions of years, and god only knows what it will be like in the meantime.

It may be that this moderate, temperate interglacial period we live in right now, today, is naturally very short, as the earth goes from snowball to desert, and we just, luckily, happened to evolve now. Who knows. But the climate is still warming and maybe we can't stop it, but maybe we can lessen it's destructive impact on the earth and all life on it.

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Isn't petcoke the stuff the Koch brothers are stockpiling in Detroit?

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Please Canada, Australia, we don't want you to be as nutty as the US. We always look to you for a bit more sanity.

Sigh.........


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According to scientific data, Mom, that tipping point isn't too far off... 2020 or sooner...


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Who's scientific data?

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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More denial...


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Creationism, climate-change denial -- no amount of scientific data, nor consensus among scientists can convince those who have armed themselves against reality-based evidence.

Life in the fast lane bubble . . .


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Creationism of course. Climate change, I post the opposing view because no one has convinced me one way or the other. Science on both sides have very good arguments. I'm not jumping on either band wagon until all science is in agreement.


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Well, the world has a lot to "benefit" from these oilsands so I highly doubt any thing will be done about it. We have a government body right now (and you know what, now that the area has been exploited) we always will have a government body that will just reap in the rewards of it all. Until people are willing to consume less I don't see this problem being resolved. I don't think we can stop Dutch Disease which is very, very unfortunate. I will still do my part and not be a consumer in excess and watch what I contribute to my environment and water system - very diligently. I find it very sad to what is being done to a very pristine area. Take away the oilsands, Canada can say we reduced our emissions but that is only because we now send our manufacturing (recessions) to cheap third world countries. So it isn't fair to say we haven't increased our emissions we just make a lateral transfer. It would be way more if we didn't exploit these countries for our benefit. Plus these countries aren't yet using technology to reduce carbon emissions. All wealthy countries can say they decreased their emissions but look where it hasn't decreased - where cheap labour is.
We had researchers who stood up for growth hormones (being added to our food system) in our healthcare system - you know where that got them? Fired. Yep, sssshhhh.


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You're familiar with the denialist escalator?

At the link. I don't know how to insert animated .gif's in a post here. If anybody can help....

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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I'm not jumping on either band wagon until all science is in agreement.

There will always be some 'scientist' holding the tar-sands distinguished professorship at All Oil University to conveniently dispute the agreement of 95% of the scientific community.


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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 12:57

LOL It's like evolution, isn't it.

No, no, no it's still just a "theory".

It's just too funny, in a sad way.

It's a lot easier to prove the "theory" of evolution than it is to prove "creation" or "intelligent design". Well, we just have to accept it on faith. Right.


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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

Welcome to the future, and there is not a thing nationalistic about it. Look no further than your house to find the source of the problem.


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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

You enjoyed that mom?

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.


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And now that FEMA has re-mapped the flood zones using data since 1986, incorporating all those 100 year floods and 500 year floods and 1000 year floods we've been getting in the last 25 years, flood insurance premiums reflect reality, and are going up several-fold.

Climate change leading to more frequent and more severe weather events? Silly scientists. Lets continue to dump the garbage from burning trillions of tons of coal - now with tar sand goodness!!! - into Earth's atmosphere. If the Earth were the size of a basketball, the thickness of the atmosphere would be a thin sheet of plastic wrapped around the ball. What could possibly go wrong?


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 16:25

Enjoyed what? The cartoon?

I'm a TB nurse, I think it's hysterical. We have that posted on our wall, it makes everyone who comes into our clinic laugh.

How about you? Do you use new medications, intelligently designed, as bacterium have evolved to be drug resistant?

I've had to give injections of toxic TB meds, daily for 7 1/2 months, to a young man who had drug resistant TB.

It's funny how people who don't "believe" in evolution, believe in micro-evolution, especially when it effects them.

Evolution is evolution, no matter the scale - dinosaur, man or bacteria


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 17:27

OK, the magic words have been spoken several times.....

# 79"

Mrskjun, I'm sure that I can google up some flat earther scientists, you interested? ;)


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I found this fascinating. You might also if you like quirky old maps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inverse toroid depicted and defined


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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

mom, believing in creation and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive. I'm sorry you are unable to understand that. But I won't ridicule you for your nonbelief, just give me the same respect.

And no vg, I'm perfectly capable and intelligent enough to use google. Thanks anyway.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 19:26

Well, according to most evangelical churches, believing in evolution and believing in creation ARE mutually exclusive.

You have to pick one or the other, or you are doctrinally unsound.

Or you keep your mouth shut, I guess.


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mom, believing in creation and believing in evolution are not mutually exclusive.

In the past you have promoted the teaching of creationism, or intelligent design, as science in public schools. Creationism / intelligent design does exclude believing in evolution.

If you have now changed your view, and accept evolution, that is something that you have not previously made known.


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So untrue nancy. It is what I have always espoused. God created and His creation has evolved. We may not have evolved from something that crawled out of the primal goop, but all life has evolved. Dinosaurs became extinct, men and women are larger through good nutrition and care. Germs have mutated into super germs because of our willy nilly use of antibiotics etc. But man is still man, germs are still germs, and each animal unto it's own kind.


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•Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 12:57

LOL It's like evolution, isn't it.
No, no, no it's still just a "theory".

Sounds like my bumper sticker:

Evolution. It's just a theory. Kind of like gravity.


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So untrue nancy. It is what I have always espoused.

Then you didn't mean it when you argued for intelligent design to be taught?

Or are you unclear on the meaning of intelligent design?

What should be taught? (Or Creation III)

Creation Discussion II - The Aftermath

Creation vs Evolution

Science -vs- Creationism and ID (Editorial)

11 Eye-Opening Highlights From a Creationist Science Textbook


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RE: Canada Silences Scientists

Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 19:26

Well, according to most evangelical churches, believing in evolution and believing in creation ARE mutually exclusive.

You have to pick one or the other, or you are doctrinally unsound.

Or you keep your mouth shut, I guess.

*

POPPYCOCK!

I believe in creationism and I believe in evolution.

They are NOT mutually exclusive.

It fits perfectly.

Newsflash--people that believe in God and are secure in their beliefs don't give a flying fig what other people think about their beliefs, and scoff at feeble attempts to pigeonhole them and tell them that their beliefs are incongruent when they are not.

What arrogance!~


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•Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on Thu, Sep 26, 13 at 12:57

"LOL It's like evolution, isn't it.
No, no, no it's still just a "theory".

It's just too funny, in a sad way.

It's a lot easier to prove the "theory" of evolution than it is to prove "creation" or "intelligent design". Well, we just have to accept it on faith. Right."

Here's what Merriam-Webster says:

evolution: "biology : a theory that the differences between modern plants and animals are because of changes that happened by a natural process over a very long time."

theory: "an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events. : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be..."

The concept of evolution is as good as any, better than some, to explain the changes. Why not? But it IS a theory, not a proven fact, and as such one shouldn't mock others who don't buy the whole package. IMO. What difference does it make?

Sure, teach evolution; as a theory. Not a fact.

What does all this have to do with "The tar sands are the single largest industrial project on earth?"


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I believe in creationism and I believe in evolution.

If this is true, then you are not going by the accepted meaning of 'creationism.'

Creationism, or intelligent design, does not simply mean belief in a creator.

All those threads on creationism and intelligent design, and people still don't know what the term means.


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"Creationism, or intelligent design, does not simply mean belief in a creator.

All those threads on creationism and intelligent design, and people still don't know what the term means."

That's for sure.


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Humans for a long time have proved to be MDR as well (multiple disaster resistant). The Earth is evolving new methods, however, so we may get set back for a while.


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Nancy--there are creationists and there are Biblical creationists.

I beg your pardon but I know what I believe.


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Nature happens

Whether anyone "believes" in evolution or not, whether anyone "believes" in global warming, or not, both will continue rolling along well without us. Nature just doesn't care whether we, or our governments, believe.

Evolution and the climate and the natural world got along just fine without us for 4.5 billion years, and it will get along fine without us in the future to. We may not like what the future holds for us, but I doubt there's anything we can do to change it, ultimately, except possibly, make it a bit worse.

And 40 years from now we can explain to your great grandchildren exactly what's happening to the earth, but of course, it's not climate change.


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"us" meaning life, or "civilized" mankind?


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I beg your pardon but I know what I believe.

This is not the issue I raised.

Your use of the term creationism, as it is commonly understood in the U.S., is incorrect to describe what you believe.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 27, 13 at 10:08

Here's some Evolution --- From "Very" likely to "Extremely" likely....

AP

"Scientists can now say with extreme confidence that human activity is the dominant cause of the global warming observed since the 1950s, a new report by an international scientific group said Friday."

Calling man-made warming "extremely likely," the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change used the strongest words yet on the issue as it adopted its assessment on the state of the climate system.

In its previous assessment, in 2007, the U.N.-sponsored panel said it was "very likely" that global warming was man-made.

It now says the evidence has grown thanks to more and better observations, a clearer understanding of the climate system and improved models to analyze the impact of rising temperatures.

"Our assessment of the science finds that the atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amount of snow and ice has diminished, the global mean sea level has risen and the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased," said Qin Dahe, co-chair of the working group that wrote the report.

The full 2,000-page report isn't going to be released until Monday, but a summary for policymakers with the key findings was published Friday. It contained few surprises as many of the findings had been leaked in advance.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 27, 13 at 10:26

pnbrown, all of the above.


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I first met Tzeporah and her hubby Chris at the Clayoquot Sound blockades. I'm glad that she still has the patience to talk about this issue to the public, when I don't. IMO, the time to talk was over a decade ago and now I can't support anything but action to shut down the world's oil and gas industry. Or are 2.2 million people/year dying prematurely and the climate being massively influenced by carbon oxides not good enough reasons to get off the fence and act?

Here is a link that might be useful: Slashing greenhouse gas emissions could save millions of lives


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The time to begin scaling back on oil and gas and coal consumption was well over a decade ago... scientists have known, have had data regarding global warming since the 70's and 80's, and tried hard to gain the government's ear then. They were silenced.


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I figure as soon as Al Gore and his ilk have finished milking their millions, global warming will be coming to an end. Does anyone remember what happened to the ice age of the 70's?


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I figure as soon as Al Gore and his ilk have finished milking their millions, global warming will be coming to an end.

You figure incorrectly.


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Same thing the believers said about the ice age. Time will tell. Never hurts to take care of the planet either way.


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 27, 13 at 19:36

I figure as soon as Al Gore and his ilk have finished milking their millions, global warming will be coming to an end.

Nope. Al Gore has nothing to do with it. The climate will probably continue to warm for tens of thousands of years, finally ending in another glacial period.

Since these changes happen in geological time, the tiny bit we see now is meaningless in making predictions. Maybe in 5000 years we'll have a better idea.

These are natural cycles, but this is the "probably" the first one that has involved man, and technology. We may have made it go a bit faster.

We are in an interglacial period, the earth has been warming for 10,000+ years, that's why there are no longer many glaciers in northern North America, Europe, Asia and along the Andes in South America. But they'll be back too.


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"Since these changes happen in geological time, the tiny bit we see now is meaningless in making predictions. Maybe in 5000 years we'll have a better idea.

These are natural cycles, but this is the "probably" the first one that has involved man, and technology. We may have made it go a bit faster."

Well said, Mom. Great post, IMHO. ;-)


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More than "a bit" faster. A whole lot faster.


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More than "a bit" faster. A whole lot faster.

Al Gore has nothing to do with the "whole lot faster" part - just the bearer of the bad news, for which he is vilified by the right.

Never hurts to take care of the planet either way.

The climate-change denialists never miss a chance to slam Al Gore and his recommendations to take care of the planet. And in denialist speak, taking care of the planet means job-killing environmental protections.


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Well, at least we don't have to worry about paying more for flood insurance.


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We just had a thread on geological time and its possible outcomes for humanity, so this is regurgitation.


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I read this kind of thread and am sure I've read some of the posts at least two dozen times. Some posters just cannot let go of false "facts" and debunked memes. A shame, really. Then there are some posters immune to the boredom issue and respond politely (mostly) to these redundant inanities and blatant demurring about what some posters stated in a few and many previous threads. Even when these are brought out of archives for full reviewing. A shame, really.


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Of course, Marshallz... but some of it bears repeating.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 10:03

"Then there are some posters immune to the boredom issue and respond politely (mostly) to these redundant inanities and blatant demurring about what some posters stated in a few and many previous threads."

At the very least - 221 threads!.......and counting.....


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"Of course, Marshallz... but some of it bears repeating."

Only if you've got time to kill. It's later than you think. :(


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