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Hooray for the new pope

Posted by october17 5chgo (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 19, 13 at 15:25

I was hoping this guy would be different.

Anyone seen the linked article?

He calls the focus on abortion, gays and birth control "small minded"!!!!

Go Pope Francis!

Here is a link that might be useful: let's hope he reigns a long long time


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Hooray for the new pope

One step at a time . . .

National Catholic Reporter: Pope rejects church of 'small-minded rules' in Jesuit interview

At other points in the interview, Francis reflects on the origins of his Jesuit vocation, his leadership style and his early experiences of the papacy.

He indicated he wants to be a reforming pope, but that one shouldn't expect massive changes quickly.

"Many think that changes and reforms can take place in a short time," he said.

"I believe that we always need time to lay the foundations for real, effective change. And this is the time of discernment."


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RE: Hooray for the new pope

He calls the focus on abortion, gays and birth control "small minded"!!!!

Correction: He called the church's obsession with those things "small minded". That's a pretty radical thing to say for a pope.


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One step at a time, in the right direction.


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I wonder what the other church leaders are thinking. Is it enough to sway them or are they thinking this guy is a real kook.


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I did see that today. Baby steps but better than no steps at all. According to what I read, US bishops are not happy. Basically this pope supports what the nuns on the bus are doing and some here are not happy about that. Ha! Yeah, can't be supporting nuns pushing for social justice now can we? Sheesh.

Good for the Pope.


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So far all that has changed is the tone but not the law. One must hope for better than the Nazi pope but it's too soon to tell. I hope this guy continues to rock the boat, maybe even build a new ark.


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RE: Hooray for the new pope

Yes Pidge you are absolutely correct.
I am still going to hell unless I go in the little box & make a perfect act of contrition which states I will avoid the near occasion of sin (that would be EDD)
His statement that he is a sinner is nothing new & that we are all sinners. He is speaking to the hysteria of The Cardinals has focused on select sins & raised millions to influence governments to screw the lives of non Catholic's is commendable.
Major major rule is if I know who Jesus is & I do not accept him through his Holy Roman Apostolic Church & accept all the creeds that go along with that then I'm toast. Being toast Cardinals should not interfere with if I'm buttered or not or grill cheese or toast & 2 eggs.

Catechism is still Catechism and Hallmark sentiments are just that!

"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."


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"I wonder what the other church leaders are thinking. Is it enough to sway them or are they thinking this guy is a real kook."

I'm thinking some think he's kook, but others (maybe many others) may be pleased to have their private hopes coming true. After all, I would think most entered into service because of a desire to help. Surely compassion and tolerence are part of their equation.


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After all, I would think most entered into service because of a desire to help.

That's what we all like to think, but I wager it's not always the case.


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Look at it this way Joe......now you are going to hell for the same reason all those having sex outside of marriage are. You're a mainstream sinner ...it's progress :-)


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 20, 13 at 9:33

"He calls the focus on abortion, gays and birth control "small minded"!!!!
Go Pope Francis!"

Did he just insult the GOP base? Well, at least the Pope can't be "Primaried".


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Talk is cheap. The Catholic church has been building its treasury for 2,000 years on the backs of poor human beings around the world.
I'll believe the pope and the church is different when I see some of their wealth being used to ease poverty and starvation.


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I was heartened to hear his words, but only time will tell. I thought he grasped that this is a teachable moment amidst all the focus upon social issues of late. I had the impression he is trying to return to the core teachings of Jesus, being love and acceptance. I like the way he is unafraid to mingle in crowds and rejects the posh lifestyle of previous popes, in general. In any event, it's good to have a pope from the New World, not the Old World, for a change....


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That he declares himself a son of the Church combines the catechism & all the creeds into one.
He is stating yes all things remain the same we are just going to no longer cherry pick an look like we are the persecutors rattling on about the same things over & over.

As Bill Donahue points out the official position of the church which I even learned in High School was the church doesn't condemn your for being gay.
Your soul is between you & god (hopefully you are seeking forgiveness here for your errors) (being sexually active & gay is an error) (being celibate & gay is fine it doesn't insist on you defining yourself in some other way as it operates from a position of ordered & disordered when it comes to sexual activity)
Jesuits can split a split hair & split it again they are not doing it with the intention of being difficult. It is a form of logic that sees sex as ordered or disordered.
The pursuit of happiness in sex would be disordered or the pursuit of anything other than procreation after the sacrament of marriage. Happiness & pleasure may (may) be bi products & probably could be.

Jesus loves all his creation if they do not love themselves is what I was taught! When you act in a sexually disorderly fashion you are not loving yourself because you have removed yourself from the perfect loving order)

The Church hasn't removed you but here the church has
a way out Reconciliation/Confession where the priest by the authority granted to him by Christ can & will absolve your sin if your are truly penitent.

4th grade question but what if your really aren't penitent are your sins still absolved.
No Joseph that's magic you cannot trick the priest into magically removing your sins your sins are absolved because your are truly penitent and have said so that to the best of your ability you will avoid the triggers that will lead you to sin AGAIN!


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“We must not reduce the bosom of the universal church to a nest protecting our mediocrity.”

The Catholic church described as a nest of mediocrity has a nice ring to it.


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Nest of mediocrity -- and gays. Whoops! Hadn't you noticed?

Celibacy is not a life most normal men choose, but the church provides a 'place' in society -- even made it a *requirement*.

Oh, sorry, that was just my special 'genius' intuition at work.

*I* think you have to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em, and the gay movement and birth control have won the hand and the game.


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I am so NOT ready to jump on the "love the Pope" bandwagon. I like what he says but the fact remains that so far as he done nothing in terms of canon law nor has he promised to do so. I agree with Chisue the gay movement and birth control proponents are in the ascendant and most gays and women (and tons of other groups of "outsiders") have written the Catholic Church off.
A couple of folks have praised his words as a "first step." I want to see him out of the blocks and making a concrete rather than an abstract "difference."


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 20, 13 at 17:39

If John Boehner was upset with Putin's remarks then the Pope must have made him cry! Bahahahahahaha! (is that how it's spelled?)


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 20, 13 at 18:16

I think there is a "w" in the baha vgkg :)


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I am hoping that the Pope is not pulling an Obama with espousing the rhetoric of Hope and emulating the behavior of Christ but behaving on doctrinal matters like Putin.


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I appreciate his focus on Catholic issues! It's only when his Bishops try steering non Catholics private lives that I have trouble with this ancient ongoing experiment.
For 2000 years give or take a couple of hundred it's been trying to explain & , interpret the ineffable's desires regarding our sex lives & occasional dietary choices to the deaf the blind or the all too clever, with fire, sword & the threat of everlasting torment.


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pidge: "A couple of folks have praised his words as a "first step." I want to see him out of the blocks and making a concrete rather than an abstract "difference." "

Just like you pidge, huh? Out there everyday at the soup kitchen. Washing the feet of the poor. That's exactly how I picture you. Not.


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october, if you sincerely admire Pope Francis, the greatest tribute possible would be to follow his example.

Do you believe that he would resort to belittling someone with whom he disagreed?


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While I'm not a believer, I think the basic message Jesus brought to the people was a good one... though I see very few organized religions actually following or preaching this way.


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His attitude & example might send a message to the Archbishop of the Dominican Republic who referred to the US Amabassador as a F....!


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If god supposedly created everyone in his image, then how does the church explain such reactions and beliefs?


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Well Jodik I was taught that as long as I was behaving according to the prescribed behaviors that were approved by HM Church then I was pleasing in gods eye. That when I committed a venal sin I had dirty hands & face & a mortal sin I have disfigured myself completely. I have distorted that image I no longer look like a sheep to the shepherd. When I say I & my sin are one (I am an active gay person I have thrown away the perfect love offered me for the transient substitute called carnal pleasure & mere human affection)

Just a note I don't accept any of the above but if your going to play chess it's good to get acquainted with all the various flavors of the game!

The rhetoric of the Curia may change ebb flow the underlying rock hard Dogma does not. Still interpretation of that dogma has always been a focus of Jesuit discernment.
The anniversary of the order is next week.


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Washing the feet of the poor is a nice gesture, but changing Canon Law will be a concrete move to alter the repressive nature of the Catholic Church toward women and homosexuals, to name only the most prominent of the groups the Church marginalizes. As a former Catholic, I would be glad to witness substantive change in the church, but I'm not holding my breath.


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Likewise, pidge.

Francis removed Cardinal Mauro Piacenza (reputed to be highly traditional on matters of liturgy and the question of priestly celibacy), from the post of Prefect of the Congregation for Clergy. He's now the head of the Apostolic Penitentiary, a dusty little Vatican tribunal that deals with sins so grave only a Pope can grant absolution, i.e. a priest breaking the seal of the confessional.

But Francis left Archbishop Gerhard Mueller in the role of Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Mueller, appointed by Benedict XVI, directs the Holy See's crackdown on nuns suspected of undermining Catholic teaching on the priesthood and homosexuality.


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The rest of the story

From CBS News,
Even before the interview was published, some conservatives had voiced disappointment that Francis had shied away from restating such church rules. Francis explained his reason for doing so in the interview with the Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica, saying church teaching on such issues is well-known, he supports it, but that he doesn't feel it necessary to repeat it constantly.

He did repeat it on Friday, however. In his comments, Francis denounced today's "throw-away culture" that justifies disposing of lives, and said doctors in particular had been forced into situations where they are called to "not respect life."

"Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he said.

He urged the gynecologists to abide by their consciences and help bring lives into the world. "Things have a price and can be for sale, but people have a dignity that is priceless and worth far more than things," he said.

Francis' comments to Civilta Cattolica contained no change in church teaching, but they represented a radical shift in tone and stood in stark contrast to the priorities of his two immediate predecessors.

26 Photos
Pope Francis

John Paul II and Benedict XVI were both intellectuals for whom doctrine was paramount, an orientation that guided the selection of a generation of bishops and cardinals who, in countries like the United States, have put themselves on the front lines in opposing abortion and gay marriage. They now find themselves being asked to preach more to those who have fallen away from the church and offer them a compassionate welcome home.

Greg Burke, the Vatican's senior communications adviser, insisted Friday that Francis was by no means calling into question the papacies and priorities of his predecessors.

"The pope is not condemning his predecessors," Burke told The Associated Press. "What he is saying is 'We've spent a lot of time talking about the boundaries. We've spent a lot of time talking about what is sin and what's not. Now let's move on. Let's talk about mercy. Let's talk about love.'"

Dublin Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, Ireland's most reform-minded Catholic leader, said Francis' comments will be tough for the church to put into action because there is a tendency to get "trapped" into the right and wrong, white and black of Catholic teaching.

"It's a way of thinking that will actually be very hard for the right and the left of the church, either of them, to accept," he told RTE radio. But he said Francis wasn't dismissing everything that has been taught to date.

"He's saying let's move in a different direction."

Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, just last week had said in an interview with his diocesan newspaper that he was "a little bit disappointed" that Francis hadn't spoken out about abortion. On Friday, in an official statement responding to the La Civilta Cattolica article, Tobin said he admired Francis' leadership.

"Being a Catholic doesn't mean having to choose between doctrine and charity, between truth and love. It includes both. We are grateful to Pope Francis for reminding us of that vision," he said.

Play Video
Cardinal Dolan: The church "needs a shock," pope wants to "shake us up"

U.S. Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who as head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has taken a lead role in voicing the U.S. church's opposition to contraception and gay marriage, told "CBS This Morning" that the church isn't the only one obsessed with such issues - today's culture is.

"Every pope has a different strategy," Dolan said. ''What I think he's saying is, 'Those are important issues and the church has got to keep talking about them, but we need to talk about them in a fresh new way. If we keep kind of a negative finger-wagging tone, it's counterproductive. "

He said that while Francis had sent shockwaves throughout the church, clearly it was necessary.

"Every day I think, 'Thank God he was elected.' ... Every day I say, 'This man is batting a thousand.'"

Turning to the issue of the role of women within the Catholic church, Dolan summarized the pope's sentiments. "He warned against the feminine machismo."

"The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions," Pope Francis told the magazine, explaining that in his view, "the church cannot be herself without the woman and her role. ... We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the woman."

Here is a link that might be useful: cbsnews.com


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See, Joe, this is why I don't buy into any of it... a forgiving, all-loving deity would not have created a race of beings and then told some of them that their love and affection was somehow less meaningful than the next person's. It makes no logical sense.

It reeks of the need to control through guilt and fear.


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Talk is cheap.


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RE: a question for Joe

Are poor Catholics expected to tithe? If so, how is that just or right?


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Poor Catholics are not expected to contribute financially. As a matter of fact contributions are largely "cash in the basket" and anonymous.

Although there may be no expectation of a monetary contribution, in the parishes I have belonged to giving of your time is an expectation.


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Ok pidge, you don't hold your breath for the pope. That's your decision.

I won't hold my breath for obama, who has been in his position of power a whole lot longer than the pope.

And I am entilted to that decision, just as you are entilted to yours. Or, am I not, pidge?

jodi: "See, Joe, this is why I don't buy into any of it... a forgiving, all-loving deity would not have created a race of beings and then told some of them that their love and affection was somehow less meaningful than the next person's. It makes no logical sense. "

I think it's been an interpretation of the words in the bible. I'm not a practicing catholic. Have not been for a long long long time. Anyway, I prefer to believe that the bible/religious teachings are as the new pope proclaims. Acceptance and forgiveness. Not exclusion and persecution. That was/is some sick human interpretation.

I also think that Adam and Eve was probably meant to be a sort of parable. Not the absolute creation of mankind. But what do I know. I don't remember much of my catholic education.


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"I prefer to believe that the bible/religious teachings are as the new pope proclaims. Acceptance and forgiveness. Not exclusion and persecution."

...except if you happen to be a 'baby mama"


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Not so, Chase. He encouraged the single mother to go ahead and have her baby and that he would baptize it for her.

Here is a link that might be useful: Telegraph


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evenshade, my comments were not in reference to what the Pope may think but rather to what October has expressed.....


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Oops...sorry about that, Chase. I should have read back up the thread.


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Not to worry Evenshade......

I just find it very difficult to rationalize the words of some who proclaim to be good Christians with the words they use when describing their fellow man.

The Pope is a very charitable, humble and kind person. He has it all, so to speak, but he cares much about those who have less regardless of why they find themselves in that situation. He is totally non judgmental.

He humbles me and embarrasses me....


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"I just find it very difficult to rationalize the words of some who proclaim to be good Christians with the words they use when describing their fellow man."

I think I would have some difficulty with that, too. Who are you talking about? Something you saw on TV, or people that you know?

I'm wondering, as I've never heard anyone "proclaim to be a good Christian." Maybe that's extraordinary. If someone did proclaim this in my presence, and then went on to say things about other people that I judged to be against what I thought their "Christian principles" ought to be, I think would question them about it to see if I could figure out what the heck they were talking about.

I find this statement perplexing in its ambiguity.


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Well then you haven't been paying attention.


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Well then you haven't been paying attention.

The kindest interpretation . . .


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No retorts from me. It's always a learning experience watching and listening, and that's worth a lot. To me.


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Egads! It IS perplexing to be lost in a sea of ambiguity.


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Chase, I concur with your words about Pope Francis being personally charitable and kind. But his personal character is not the measure of the Catholic Church, and I continue to reserve judgment as to whether he will be able to change the organization to follow his lead. I thought John 23 would "open the windows" of the church, but the men who followed him shut those windows as fast as they could. History suggests that the new guy is up against a tough crowd.


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Posted by elvis 4 (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 20:27

"I just find it very difficult to rationalize the words of some who proclaim to be good Christians with the words they use when describing their fellow man."

I think I would have some difficulty with that, too. Who are you talking about? Something you saw on TV, or people that you know?

I'm wondering, as I've never heard anyone "proclaim to be a good Christian." Maybe that's extraordinary. If someone did proclaim this in my presence, and then went on to say things about other people that I judged to be against what I thought their "Christian principles" ought to be, I think would question them about it to see if I could figure out what the heck they were talking about.

I find this statement perplexing in its ambiguity.

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I think of the time spent passing judgment and pontificating on what other people think and why they think the way they do with absolutely no information to back up those assessments, perplexing.

Not to mention a colossal waste of time and energy.

But there is obviously an emotional payoff of some sort because so many people do it. I suppose some people get paid to do it, so there's the financial payoff. They can often be seen on television.

BTW, I absolutely love attending mass the last two years and it has nothing to do with a priest or Pope Francis.

His words and deeds are between him and God, and none of my business.

Have a great day Christians and others~


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I think Pidge is right... nothing is less open to change or transparency than the organization of religion, as it were... and more specifically the catholic church... and this pope has a long row to hoe...


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If anyone wants to understand anything about this man they need to understand the mind set of Jesuit discernment!

"See everything; turn a blind eye to much; correct a little." is a quote form John the XXIII whom he has quoted.

Loyola called the “motions of the soul.” The movements that consist of thoughts, imaginings, emotions, inclinations, desires, feelings, repulsions, and attractions. Spiritual discernment of spirits involves becoming sensitive to these movements, reflecting on them, and understanding where they come from and where they lead us. These all being in context of the framework of the Church's creeds.

For the Society of Friends discernment is the heart of their very being & they seek to use it in every day life.
While this Popes open dialogue may seem revolutionary it's basis is steeped in Jesuit tradition!


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I think of the time spent passing judgment and pontificating on what other people think and why they think the way they do with absolutely no information to back up those assessments, perplexing.

You mean like judging people on line in a market, how they dress, their hair and how they pay for their purchases? Those that do that can't criticize others without looking hypocritical.


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Posted by epiphyticlvr 10 (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 13:21

I think of the time spent passing judgment and pontificating on what other people think and why they think the way they do with absolutely no information to back up those assessments, perplexing.

You mean like judging people on line in a market, how they dress, their hair and how they pay for their purchases? Those that do that can't criticize others without looking hypocritical.

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Facts are wasted on you, aren't they, in your knee jerk posts to be snarky?

Show me where I state what strangers think and why they think the way they do.

There is simply no way to state how another person thinks and their motivations for thinking the way they do under the circumstances done on this forum.

Apparently you don't get the difference, but then it is understandable that with the history of your posts, it would not be advantageous for you to "get it."


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Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 15:13

"I prefer to believe that the bible/religious teachings are as the new pope proclaims. Acceptance and forgiveness. Not exclusion and persecution."
...except if you happen to be a 'baby mama"

Just guessing here, but this guy may believe that birth control should be availble to women. I don't think birth control is as widely available in South America where he has been doing his good works.

And, what's he supposed to do once the baby has been plopped out? Condemn it and not baptize it? He's not that kind of guy, sounds like.

Got anything else, chase?


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Show me where I state what strangers think and why they think the way they do

I don't have to show you anything, you give us examples almost every time you post including this one. Anyone who has participated or read these threads over the years has seen your judgments all the time about other posters and strangers and then whenever you are called on it you either claim you are entitled to your "opinion" or cry victim and feign innocence.

The rest of your post is laughable in light of your claims and is just another mischaracterization and/or but an about someone else. You hypocrisy is glaring. I and many others, "get it" perfectly. You make it very easy.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 17:18


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Deflection at it's best, or worst

Can't show me.

You would if you could.

FAIL


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There is simply no way to state how another person thinks and their motivations for thinking the way they do under the circumstances done on this forum.

Immediately followed by...

Apparently you don't get the difference, but then it is understandable that with the history of your posts, it would not be advantageous for you to "get it."

That is actually laughable.

You just provided the evidence you were looking for when you said:
show me where I state what strangers think and why they think the way they do

You seem to think you understand how Epi thinks. More of the usual. OK when you do something. Not OK when someone you don't agree with does it. The "Demi rules of HT"

Epi is 100% correct. Many of us get it. The only one that FAILed was you.


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Schoolyard, demi.


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Same old games and another wrong assumption Demi. If nothing else you are consistent.

I already pointed out the hypocrisy and I have nothing to prove to you. Not everyone suffers from selective memory syndrome. There are a plethora of examples on this board for anyone interested but few want to relive the nonsense again.

I don't want to turn yet another thread into one about you simply to provide you with the attention you seem to desperately crave. Enjoy your evening.

This post was edited by epiphyticlvr on Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 18:04


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Thank you, epi, for being one of the adults in the room. The crate of whines - assorted fine - are long past getting tiresome.


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Oh, the little schoolyard taunts never stop.

Accuse, don't back up the assumptions, and blame me for pointing out the diversion of trashing me.

Yawn.


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Back to topic after ten posts mostly by and about demi:

I hope this pope fulfills at least some of the desires of the people who are longing for him to bring them comfort and peace. I have so many Catholic friends who are optimistic about this guy. Personally, I'm having a hard time feeling so sanguine, but this is a case where I would be very glad to be wrong.


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Pidge, I don't hold hope for much real change in the near term...near tern being not in my lifetime!

However, I do think that the Pope's language will give the more liberal priests the opportunity to speak out about real reform. Maybe a ground swell, over years, may strengthen the resolve of the more liberal faction of the Church.

I don't hope for much but I am hopeful.


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He takes the Christian message too seriously for much of the rest of the Catholic hierarchy. My guess is that they will try to marginalize him...


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He doesn't strike me as the type to be marginalized.


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Wow, the pope is making news this morning. Reports are that he will appoint a co-archbishop in NJ to assist the current archbishop, who is controversial due to several instances where he allegedly overlooked sexual abuse by priests. A pretty graceful way to make a statement, take care of the problem, yet make it hard for the conservative wing to dig their heels in, since the current archbishop is not getting sacked, but is merely being given assistance.


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Maybe a better way to put it would be to say will the hierarchy follow his leadership when it comes to life style...


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Interesting move, Hayden. The guy's a politician.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Tue, Sep 24, 13 at 10:53

"Reports are that he will appoint a co-archbishop in NJ to assist the current archbishop, who is controversial due to several instances where he allegedly overlooked sexual abuse by priests

Sort of like a "Vice-Archbishop" who was appointed to keep an eye on the vices.


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The guy's a politician.

Pidge, please remember that Pope Francis lived through Argentina's Dirty War, and was responsible to keep clergy alive during the military juntas. One was suspect of being radical, revolutionary, or a communist just by the mere act of aiding the poor in the barrios of Buenos Aires. If that doesn't teach someone survival / negotiating skills, nothing will.

Also, his condemnation of savage captialism is a direct link to the iMF/World Bank austerity measures imposed on Argentina after the junta, Menem, and the other crooks robbed the country blind (or allowed the country to be robbed blind).

Every reform movement begins small. The real test will be if Papa Bergoglio can overcome the Curia, and the hard-line conservatives appointed by the last two popes. I wish him well.


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I do know about surviving the Dirty War, Nancy, though I was not as familiar with the World Bank situation that you mention. I also wish him well. Hope I live long to see if anything substantive happens.


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Well plain old simple Frank's crew has excommunicated an Australian priest.

Dissident priest Greg Reynolds has been both defrocked and excommunicated over his support for women priests and gays - the first person ever excommunicated in Melbourne, he believes.
The order comes direct from the Vatican, not at the request of Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart, and apparently follows a secret denunciation in the best traditions of the inquisition, according to Father Reynolds.
The excommunication document - written in Latin and giving no reason - was dated May 31, meaning it comes under the authority of Pope Francis who made headlines on Thursday calling for a less rule-obsessed church.
Father Reynolds, who resigned as a parish priest in 2011 and last year founded Inclusive Catholics, said he had expected to be laicised (defrocked), but not excommunicated. But it would make no difference to his ministry.
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''In times past excommunication was a huge thing, but today the hierarchy have lost such trust and respect,'' he said.
''I've come to this position because I've followed my conscience on women's ordination and gay marriage.''

You'll never convince me that this pack is any different now than they have been my whole life.

Here is a link that might be useful: AH well


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RE: Hooray for the new pope

Hmmmm. Seems he had already left the church labrea. Maybe they were just making it official.

Don't know about that one. Not good. Don't like it.

Not gonna help to get me back in the pew.


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RE: Hooray for the new pope

At the same time it takes them years if ever to defrock priests in prison whom they moved all over the chess board in what never were cover ups!.


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RE: Hooray for the new pope

Oh labrea, you had to remind me of that. Took the wind out of my hopeful sails.

Let's see what he does with the pedophiles and their protectors, if anything.

Sheesh. Maybe they should just wreck the whole thing and start over. Defrock them all, I say.


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