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OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Posted by labrea 7NYC (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 9, 12 at 22:29

Romney says Obama's healthcare reform has 'a number of things I like'
Republican candidate breaks with his own history of describing plan as a 'job killer' as new poll show president widening lead ah well!

Too funny you guys here comes ROMNEY CARE HEY YOOOO come on DOWN !

Here is a link that might be useful: Come on flippers lets hear yah flip


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Just like a clock goes tic tock, so goes "the Mitt", flip flop, flip flop

MA's not so favorite governor, just doing his normal flip flop.

Those undecided voters, listen to those in MA that lived under this governor, listen to what we have to say.

The listen to "The Mitt", flip flop, flip flop. We keep telling you that he can't be trusted, he can't be believed, that he doesn't even know what he believes nor can he remember what he says from one day to the next.

How can you vote for someone when you really don't know what he believes, what he stands for, what he will and will not do?

How can you vote for someone that can't remember what he says from what week to the next.

How can anyone trust someone like this?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Now I do remember he had a plan or said he had a plan is it to incrementally re brand Democrat positions and VOILA abracadabra Romeny Lite!
I heard about loopholes he would close ages ago and still he's getting back to us on those. Gimme a break


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

He is also flipping on tax cuts for the wealthy.

Now I know what Ted Kennedy meant when he said during his campaign for Senate in Mass. against Romney :

"If I wait long enough, he might vote for me!"


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I saw the interview.
ObamaCare is good. Who said he was going to appeal health care?

In May he said President Obama saved GM according to his instructions. So he is taking credit for saving GM


Before election day he will say he called the President and told him to give the order to kill Bin Laden and it was the best decision..

Truth and sticking to a belief is not his BFF. Between him and his running mate truth and character is not within their reach.

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In an appearance earlier this week on Cleveland's WEWS-TV, Romney raised more than a few eyebrows when he said: "I pushed the idea of a managed bankruptcy and finally when that was done and help was given, the companies got back on their feet. So I'll take a lot of credit for the fact that this industry's come back."

Here is a link that might be useful: Romney Story


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Now I know what Ted Kennedy meant when he said during his campaign for Senate in Mass. against Romney :

"If I wait long enough, he might vote for me!"

Amazing isn't it Heri?

Apparently "the Mitt" just didn't learn from history, his own history and he's repeating it again.

Not sure if Obama can toss it back at him the way Ted Kennedy did, but I'm sure Obama is studying those debate tapes very carefully and planning his own "flip flop attacks".

gonna be some interesting debates between the 2.

Hold on to your seats though, you don't want to get to dizzy watching the "king of the flip flops" flip some more.

Obama will be ready for him, I'm sure.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Lyin' Ryan and Mitt the flip. I thought of you Littleone when I heard that ol Mitch, as Letterman calls him, is now backing down on health care. OMG, he is unreal. The hatred for Obama must be very strong to even entertain the thought of voting for these two weasels.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Yes, and the first thing he would do as prez is repeal Obamacare! You got to love it, and Obama seems to be opening some daylight in the polls...


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Or what John Kerry said during the convention - "Gov. Romney, before you get to the debate, be sure to finish the debate with YOURSELF!"


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I mentioned this on a thread when I heard this yesterday,he said it on Meet The Press. So much for repealing it ...now he's just going to change it. If he keeps it up he may change it to single payer! LOL

PS: Will be interesting to know how he would pay for it....bet he would keep the fine/tax just like he did in Massachusetts.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

By the way, one of the things he DOESN'T like is requiring insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions:

UPDATE: 8:45 p.m. -- A Romney aide told the National Review that he does not support the Affordable Care Act's ban on discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions, despite suggesting on "Meet the Press" that he supported that part of the law.

Instead, the aide added, there has been no change in the Republican nominee's position. "[I]n a competitive environment, the marketplace will make available plans that include coverage for what there is demand for," the aide said. "He was not proposing a federal mandate to require insurance plans to offer those particular features."

Honestly, I didn't think anyone disagree with THAT part.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

""Of course there are a number of things that I like in health care reform that I'm going to put in place," he said in an interview broadcast Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." ''One is to make sure that those with pre-existing conditions can get coverage."

Well he sure made it sound like he did. Wonder how he plans to make sure people "can" get the insurance if it is not mandated. My bet is , after saying this on national TV, he got a spanking from the insurance companies.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

He knew those budget cuts were bad too, will Obama suddenly become the tea party candidate


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

looks like the big bounce Obama got out of the convention has the Romney team a bit concerned.

Not only did Romney say he would keep parts of Obamacare but now , all of a sudden, Ryan is talking about the middle class tax payer getting breaks at the cost of high income earners. No specific of course, that takes a day or two to come up with.
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"On CBS's "Face the Nation," Ryan said their plan would change "the way we raise revenue by plugging loopholes and tax shelters that are uniquely enjoyed by higher-income earners." Meanwhile, he said, middle-income earners would receive tax breaks.

Pressed further on which loopholes he would amend, Ryan did not name any specifics.

"It's not what loopholes are out there, but who gets them," he said. "And we're saying by not having higher-income earners utilize these tax shelters, we can lower tax rates on everybody, because they pay more of their income to taxation."

Here is a link that might be useful: When increasing taxes on the wealthy is not really a tax hike.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

What's so unusual about this?

Conservatives has said all along that there are portions of the bill that we agree with--I know I have, other conservatives here have, and people I know.

This is a surprise?

Some limit on denying preexisting conditions?

Allowing adult children to be included in a parent's insurance policy--why not? Millions of college graduates haven't been able to get a JOB OR INSURANCE under Obama's "leadership."

They would be stupid NOT to agree with some of these corrections to our health care system.

Romney and Ryan are not stupid men.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

When it comes to the loopholes, they already said that they won't decide those until AFTER the election because they want to work with Congress on which ones. Ha!

Reminds of conservatives' derision about the healthcare bill - we'll tell you what's in it after you pass it. Which was bunk because anyone could have had their staff read it.

But I'm sure they'll be ok with R&R saying this now ....

Certainly this "changing" of positions during the campaign should decrease independent voters' trust in them. Do you really know what you're voting for with Romney? Obama's campaign needs to hit this flopping hard.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So demi, do you agree with Romney that folks with pre-existing conditions should just work it out through the marketplace? Even if that means paying high premiums (which is basically what they are doing now)?


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.....that folks with pre-existing conditions should just work it out through the marketplace? Even if that means paying high premiums (which is basically what they are doing now)?

Speaking from experience here, if your state doesn't offer a gvt backed 'high risk pool', and prior to Obamacare, about half the states didn't, you just couldn't buy insurance in the individual market. Now if you get your insurance through a large company or gvt, then you're ok as long as you move between large companies, but try to set off on your own, start a business, or become unemployed, you can't get coverage.

The high risk pool - which can have a waiting list - will still cost you about 50% more than an individual policy, which in turn costs about 50-70% more than a policy held through a large group. In sum, in a high risk pool, 55-60 yrs old, you'd pay $1,000 a month for a high deductible ($5,000) policy. Vs if you worked for, say, the state of Colorado, your premium would be $350 a month for a $500 deductible.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

No they are not stupid men, BUT Romney has been very vocal about repealing Obamacare Day 1. Now he thinks he might like to keep some of it. I believe there is a large part of the base who thought he meant ALL of it, including some here.

Now that he sees he needs to extend beyond his base he is changing his tone. That's the problem, on one hand he says he is a man of conviction and on the other hand that conviction changes with the political wind.

I wouldn't trust that man as far as I could throw him.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Do you really know what you're voting for with Romney?

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More than what many people knew what they were voting for with Obama, that's for sure.

BTW, sorry about typo ("conservatives HAVE said....")


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trust

"I wouldn't trust that man as far as I could throw him.":

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Well, you don't have to, do you?
You don't have a say in the matter.

There are citizens of this country that don't trust Obama as far as we can throw him, either, particularly with a term when he doesn't have to worry about being reelected--remember what he whispered to Russian President Medvedev, "This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility."

If anyone thinks that remark was meant only in regard to Obama's plans regarding Russia, they're stupid.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

No I have no say in the matter but you are very wrong, I would never say stupid, if you don't think it is critically important to Canada that the American president is someone that can be trusted.

No say but a lot at risk....


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"No say , but a lot at risk" that goes for the rest of us too.


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"If anyone thinks that remark was meant only in regard to Obama's plans regarding Russia, they're stupid. "

Why do I think that there was some "information" in the movie 2016 with regards to this comment ?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 10, 12 at 10:19

Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan 2012
Worry about the details later...

(like when Bush wasn't for nation building either)


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Etch-a-sketch time!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well, Chase, because you have one heck of an imagination and too much time on your hands to sit around accusing me of...what? Having a different opinion than you, but you need to establish that I have nefarious motives?

Hate to disappoint you.

If you'd quit talking and speculating about a movie you hadn't seen you'd know the answer to your question.

You know, I can think on my own.
I did recall Obama saying this, and I came up with that ALL BY MY LITTLE SELF this morning.

Your sick need to paint me as someone that only posts what YOU THINK I listen to and watch is just creepy.

I hate to see you've gotten to this point.

And you can have an opinion, but if you can't vote you do not have a say.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Titch cranky this AM Demi?

I am not accusing you of anything and I certainly don't have any need to paint you as anything. Your paranoia is getting ahead of you.

I don't believe that you only post what I think you listen to or watch. Others here do, but I would not say that of you. Having said that we are all influenced by what we read, hear and see and use that information to help form opinions. Well at least mere mortals are.


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RE: OK Ready fo0r a Flip or a Flop

"and if you cant vote you do not have a say"
what a sad thing for your country that only half of those who ARE eligible, do actually vote.!!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Please provide the posts that lists the parts of the health care act that you or others on here listed the parts of the act that they agreed with?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well look what I came across.......looks like I do have my answer.

"But the message is also getting out into the general public. It is unlikely to convince those who support the president, but it will give added ammunition and a theoretical construct to those who want to tear him down.

"Obama is disastrous for America," said Reverend Byran Russell, president of the Faith Gospel Association World Wide Inc. "He is trying to destroy the country. I would call him �ungodly.�"

The reverend moonlights as a parking attendant, and is eager to get his message out.

"If you love your country, you have to tell people of the consequences of Obama�s actions!" he insisted. "He is a radical communist, an anti-colonialist. He told Hosni Mubarak in Egypt that he was a Muslim."

Noticing my surprise, he pushed on. "You did not know about that? It is true. I know these things. I know all about Obama. I have incredible insight. I am a visionary."

Russell denied he had seen "2016," BUT HE WENT ON TO QUOTE THE FILM CHAPTER AND VERSE.

"He told the president of Russia that he would be with him after the election," he said, referring to the open-mike conversation between Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev last March, in which the US president told his Russian counterpart that he would have more flexibility to conduct bilateral talks after November.

In Russell�s opinion, this was just another sign of Obama�s continuing bid to sell out the country.

"He has all these dreams from his father," said Russell. "He is trying to destroy America."

Oh and this one from another Conservative Blog "Conservative News and Views"

"And he would like to dismantle every nuclear warhead that the United States now has, while letting other countries keep theirs. That includes Russia. AND YES, the 2016 movie includes the "Open Mike" footage."

Here is a link that might be useful: 2016 reference to


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

What's so unusual about this?
Conservatives has said all along that there are portions of the bill that we agree with--I know I have, other conservatives here have, and people I know.
This is a surprise?

It is disingenuous on several fronts.
How exactly do Conservatives aim to pay for the benefits without the mandatory insurance provision in the Bill?
Secondly, since they have their angry faces on about Gubmint takeover of ealth Insurance, how are they going to force Health Insurance companies to offer expanded coverage and implement cost control without doing essentially the same think they complain about, a government takeover of healthcare.

Then of course there is the heart of the matter. Republicons do not want to pay for someone else's healthcare and have no problem with leaving millions without Health insurance coverage.
They have a different way of thinking...every man for himself.

Climb to the top and then pull the ladder up with you.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Every time the Affordable Health Care Bill was repealed there was not a replacement Bill on the table. I was not aware that there was a concern that any part of the Bill was acceptable to the Republicans.

I agree with David.....My daughter was in college and because she had asthma I could not purchase insurance at any rate. All her health care was covered out of pocket until she graduated. It has been awhile I think she was eligible to stay on my insurance up to the age of 21. Which covered her undergraduate education but through law school she was not covered.

It sounds very good when people make suggestions and do not know what they are talking about. Which is why when you have a candidate that says "borrow money from your parents" they are out of touch. They have no idea of the laws in every state and do not care. If you are running to be President or Congress they should be aware of the outcome of their decisions.

Another reason to vote for Obama. Our children can further their education and have insurance under their parents plan if they have a illness. Since no one can trust Romney he could flip flop the day after he is elected and decide it was not a good idea.


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I do recall Mrs, Jmc and Rob saying there were parts of the AHCB they supported.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I guess instead of Rush talking points from the right, they will he quoting propaganda from the Obama hating/bashing movie. As if any progressive would lay out $10 to see that movie which got a one and a half star by our reviewer. They're preaching to the choir.

Just sit back and watch Mitt back pedal. I cannot wait till the debates.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

What's so unusual about this?
Perhaps you missed it, but Mitt has said all along that he will REPEAL the Affordable Health Care Act on DAY 1. Now he says he likes parts of it? Then why did he say he would repeal it on day 1?

Conservatives has said all along that there are portions of the bill that we agree with--I know I have, other conservatives here have, and people I know.
Yes, some people here have said they like parts of it. Others have not said that and have repeatedly said it was "shoved down our throats".

But, perhaps you missed the fact that Romney has not said that. He said it was bad for America and he would repeal it on day 1.

This is a surprise?
No, Mitt flip flopping is no longer a surprise. Mitt lying is no longer a surprise. Ryan also lying just fits in with the program of R&R.

Not surprising. Just very sad that people fall for this. How do you know what he will do on day 1? Depends on which way the wind is blowing, I guess. And I guess that's just fine with some folks.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Romney and Ryan are not stupid men.

Could have fooled me, and sure looks like the majority posting on this thread think the same way I do.

Geez, campaigned on repealing "Obamacare" all the way through the primaries, all the way to the convention.

Then, oops, Romney does a "flip flop" and now he wants to keep some of the things in "Obamacare",

OOPs but one of his aides had to come out and supposedly correct something that he said or maybe didn't say.

Nay, Romeny is stupid, stupid as they come, typically stupid too. Didn't learn from his mistakes, didn't learn from his past history and those that don't learn from history are "doomed to repeat the same mistakes".

Heck here he is doing a repeat of all his mistakes from 1994 when he ran for senate in MA against Ted Kennedy.

Heck here it is, tax returns missing, flip flopping around again, can't get his story straight. the voters didn't know what he stood for and believed then and they sure as heck don't know now either.

How pathetic can one get? flip flopping around day in and day out, can't remember what he said from one day to the next, from one week to the next, doesn't even know what he believes in, has to have his aides tell you all the time.

Heck how desperate is he? Picks one of the wacked out teabaggers for a running mate and that doesn't help him with a boost in the polls.

And this is what the GOP has to offer for a candidate? Pathetic, is putting it politely.

As for conservatives on HT that supported parts of "Obamacare", that is not what the thread is about.
It is about Romney and what he supported and then didn't support.

It's the candidate, Mitt Romney, the GOP candidate. The one that said he would repeal "Obamacare", get rid of it and start all over again.

It is not about HT posters.

OOPS, Romney being Romney, flip flop, flip flop, flip flop.

Just history repeating itself and when those debates come around, it will be history repeating itself all over again.

Obama will be well prepared to follow in the footsteps of Ted Kennedy, and put Romney in his place with his flip flops.

Not hard to do with this guy, he is nothing but flip flops, and that is being kind. One could actually call it lies, lies and more lies.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"Your paranoia is getting ahead of you."

Got that, Demi? You oppose legislation passed in the middle of the night by Democrats who never read it and wouldn't let you see it before they shoved it down your throat. YOU are obviously suffering from mental illness..LOL!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Thanks Chase! I am so prejudiced in this area my brain filters any previous support for health care reform.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Nik, the "paranoia" comment was not about the healthcare issue. Demi seems to be supportive of your candidates new view that he will keep some of it. I'm sure you are as well.

The paranoia comment was related to Demi thinking I was accusing her of something and had some personal "need" to paint her in a bad light.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Then why, Chase, did you make the snide comment suggesting that my opinion came from the 2016 movie?

Give me a break.

Just be nice to me, please. You don't have to insult me or suggest these things. If you don't agree with me, say you don't agree with me. If you want to know why I think the way I do, ask me and I'll try to tell you if I know.

To post these things suggesting I'm being manipulated is not discussing hot topics.

As a matter of fact, with some newer forum members we have acquired the last six months or so, that's about all this forum has become--not discussing hot topics, but talking making smart aleck comments about other forum members--personal insults and taunts.

A lot of valuable posters have left and people like me and other old timers check in less than we did and post less.

I realize it's like a virus and when one does it it bolsters another, but it's not becoming. I don't like answering it and after I tire of calling it out I just give up. It's childish and non productive behavior and further divides us as a nation to call people who disagree with you names and belittle them.


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Labrea, I'm a busy little beaver today and anyway, I'm not one to spend the time to look up posts very often at all--probably have done it two or three times ever.

I do recall saying on numerous occasions that I support an overhaul of our health care system, that I supported some of the provisions--like covering preexisting conditions, and being able to carry adult children until a certain age--although it's sad, they should be able to have a job to pay for their own health care coverage or be covered under employer insurance--and I have said numerous times that I don't think health insurance should be tied to employment.

But as to the times I said that, well, you just have to take my word for it. I have no reason to lie.

The fact that we have posters here saying Romney is stupid is very telling of partisanship and name calling.

I don't think Barack Obama is stupid.
Is he in over his head? Most definitely.
But I happen to believe he knows exactly what he's doing.

As to what "Republicans" think or want, I'm about as interested in that as I am Democrats. It doesn't matter, very seldom does anything change.

I do hope that the DIRECTION this country is headed, changes, however.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

My comment was not snide, it was my honest opinion and as it turns out it is true that the movie references the "Russia". comment. You inferred that was not the case even though you knew it was. The thought just came to you out of the blue....well sorry Demi, I'm not buying it and that is my right.

You have every right to believe what you want about the President but in my view, based on what you say, you are paranoid about what you believe to be an extreme left leaning, socialist who is bent on destroying America through some nefarious means and confiscating the "wealth" of all Americans.....

As far as being nice, you have a lot to learn about what that means ...you get what you give and that's the facts.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well, Chase, get a life is all I can say.

Paranoid? Hardly.

I don't follow you around on this forum claiming that the reason you post what you do is because you read this book or saw this movie or watched this news station.

I don't follow you around and call you names and speculate about mental issues--like you do, calling me "paranoid" and suggesting to others I have mental issues.

I know about nice--I don't make personal comments about other posters out of the blue, for giving their opinions.

I AM THE ONE CALLING PEOPLE OUT FOR WHAT THEY "GIVE" to me Miss Chase.

I am not the one doing what you have done to me on this thread, I don't follow people around after they post and call them "cheaters and liars" and "thieves" and I don't insult their intelligence or accuse them of having no morals because they believe differently than I do about a topic.

You know it, we all know it.

Continue to play your games.

You'll still be playing games after the election, no matter what.

Your last post is a perfect example of why posters leave this forum.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

This is not worth starting a separate thread on, but it was funny to see Romney's team telling people not to pay attention to the polls:

"Don't get worked up about the latest polling," Neil Newhouse, Romney's pollster, wrote in a memo distributed to reporters Monday. "While some voters will feel a bit of a sugar high from the conventions, the basic structure of the race has not changed significantly. The reality of the Obama economy will reassert itself as the ultimate downfall of the Obama presidency, and Mitt Romney will win this race."

Newhouse's memo comes as a handful of national polls released over the weekend show Obama has pulled slightly ahead of Romney in the aftermath of the DNC. A Reuters/Ipsos poll released Sunday found 47 percent of likely voters were backing Obama, compared to 43 percent for Romney. Meanwhile, the Gallup daily tracking poll has Obama with a five-point lead over Romney, 49 percent to 44 percent.

Obama's slight increase comes after months of polls that found the race in a statistical tie and a week after polls found Romney received no bounce coming out of the Republican National Convention. In early August, Romney's campaign suggested he could receive as much as an 11-point boost in the aftermath of the RNC - a prediction Stuart Stevens, a top Romney adviser, later dismissed.

That's right - don't pay attention to them unless they are favoring YOU.

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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Approval ratings on Barack Obama v Mitt Romney are pure theatrics and both campaigns know it.

The election is determined by the electoral college vote -- and some of the swing states are continuing to swing towards President Obama. That's what counts.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I love the 538 blog. The stats are swinging more and more Obama's way. While I agree that a get-out-the-vote drive is still extremely important to his success, the things this guy says makes me feel much more confident.

Here is a link that might be useful: 538


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I love the 538 blog.

esh, that where I go to calm myself each time I hear some new idiocy proposal from Romney and/or Ryan.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I also love the 538 blog and try to check in every day. Nate Silver is a genius.

At the link is a nice/funny interpretation of Mitt's memo mentioned by esh above.

Here is a link that might be useful: DailyKos DON'T PANIC!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Jill, that was ridiculously silly!

Bottom line? Winning candidates don't write memos like this one.

Anyone that thinks conservative posters have dropped from this forum because people are being mean ... needs to consider that people aren't coming here because they're depressed about Romney's campaign chances.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I agree, esh. I've noticed a meaner streak in some conservative posters recently. I've wondered if they are worried. I'm sure they will deny that, but they sure don't seem as confident as they once did. At least to me.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I love 538 also - from Nate's mouth to the Flying Spaghetti Monster's ears.

Don't you think it frosts Mitt's butt that Obama might get credit for something that Mitt actually put in play years ago? It's my understanding that he wants to eliminate Obamacare on Day 1 but then bring back some of the popular parts of it. Do you suppose he might want to rename it Romneycare so he can get the credit?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

What's the likelihood that everything in the AHCA would be awful? Not very good odds, I would think. Several administrations have toyed with the idea in some form. There's bound to be stuff everyone can agree on.

A lot of people don't like this particular plan as it sits right now, that's all. One way or the other, no matter who "wins" this election, the plan as it sits right now most likely won't work, IMO.

So it'll end up being changed, anyway. It would just be nice to have one of these here "changes" that doesn't cost a gazillion dollars.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So Nik you support what or don't support what don't just slip off like that say something!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

  • Posted by ENMc none (My Page) on
    Mon, Sep 10, 12 at 19:08

See, that's the thing with Romney...the whole reason he got on board to the Health Care bill in MA was 1. The Democrats (who really ran the state and always have) already decided that Massachusetts was going to get Health Care for All...and 2. and this is the biggy, Romney thought that this idea of some sort of national health care was coming and coming soon.. and that it would be embraced by most. He wanted to be thought of as out on front of this. It was never, ever about whether this is a good thing for people...he thought it would be a GREAT thing for Romney.

His part of it was to make sure that business wouldn't be penalized much at all if they didn't participate. The fine per employee for business who opted not to offer healthcare was a pittance. Really, less than the penalty on people who didn't sign up for this. On this he would not budge...and the legislature had to give him something...they needed him to sign off on this. Besides, it was common knowledge that he would be long gone from the office (on his way to the White House) and then they could make changes to the bill.

Mitt was always on the side of business.. he never concerned himself with the fact that the majority would greatly benefit with this. To be fair (and he doesn't deserve fairness, he never plays fair) I think he knew that this was not a disaster for business and something had to be done... he knows enough about business and business costs to know that even those business/companies would soon be expecting the government to step in and offer this. And anyway, either way it wouldn't affect him...a Win/Win for Romney no matter which way. Romney's preferred outcome! ;)

You can imagine how shocked he is that he now appears to be on the wrong side of this issue (with the Repugs, and the Teabaggers weren't even in the picture back then). This is something that he never, ever saw coming. This really did blindside him.

He absolutely relished taking credit for it and claiming his hand print was all over it.
Then it was his foot.. as in he couldn't scrape it off the bottom of his shoe fast enough.

Today? He's desperately trying to avoid a spectacular crash. As usual, trying to have it both ways.

Pretty soon, he won't have a leg to stand on. He's slippery, alright.... but the shitt of his own making will bring him down.

E


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Thanks for the 538 link, Esh.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Thank you for that great analysis ENMc. It's funny the way this is coming around to bite Myth in the butt.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

They're running some rehashed ad from the Obama'scare' days with the Canadian lady who had to come to the US for eye surgery or something, talking about how she'd have to wait 6 months in Canada, and her doctor looked her in the eye and told her "she'd be dead before then".

Luckily, she was able to head south the US and have the surgery done quickly, saving her life. The ad continues to point out that Obama will make our health care more like the Canadian one, OMG OMG OMG PANIC!!!!

I saw that ad, no kidding, 8 times yesterday watching one hour of prime time news.

Snort. Failing, of course, to mention what that eye operation cost her, and the 45,000,000 American Citizens who - with out insurance - can only dream of that kind care.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

DEAAAATH PANELS!!!!! granny's gonna die!
Your health your Problem!
I will repeal OBAMACARE on day one whoopee hurrah, hurrah!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Except the parts he likes - today anyway, who knows about tomorrow.

Bring on the debates - let him prove once and for all that specificity can be toxic... or is it the walking back.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Conservatives flirt with jumping the ship, Romney is not reassuring them:

John Podhoretz writes that the Romney camp is "too intent on winning over the small batch of uncommitted and independent voters by saying absolutely nothing that might possibly offend them. The problem with that strategy is a) it means he doesn't say much, and b) it does nothing to stimulate the enthusiasm of those already in his corner." Byron York adds, "Republican nervousness is spreading and threatens to turn into a stampede. For months, GOP strategists have told themselves that no president since World War II has been re-elected with an unemployment rate above 7.2 percent. But some are beginning to wonder: What if Obama can do it?" And here was Laura Ingraham yesterday: "If you can't beat Barack Obama with this record, then shut down the party. Shut it down. Start new, with new people."

I think the first debate will be the nail in the coffin.

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So my regular visit with my ophthalmologist today is merely a figment of my imagination? And the round-the-clock care my brother just received before his death - that was also imagination?
I'm beginning to believe that the difference between Republicans and Democrats is merely this: Republicans are much, much more easily swayed by advertising.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

" The ad continues to point out that Obama will make our health care more like the Canadian one"

With any kinda luck..... ;)


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So my regular visit with my ophthalmologist today is merely a figment of my imagination? And the round-the-clock care my brother just received before his death - that was also imagination?

It's obvious that Canada is suffering from mass delusion and group hallucinations. Hopefully there's not a decades-long waiting list for treatment.

No political class in the U.S. is ever wrong, so there is no other answer.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

And that's about the size of it, Esh! That's a funny one! :-)

I'll never understand the negativity attached to universal health care from those who fear it as some sort of plot twisted backasswards into some kind of communism, or something... it's ridiculous. Death panels, rationing, and on and on. You'd think by some of the things tossed around that some folks think others don't deserve to be healthy or get help when they're ill. It reeks of that "me/mine" Kindergarten syndrome, where most of us learned that sharing is a good thing.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

The people that actually have to foot the bill for everyone knows that health care will be rationed.

It has nothing to do with not wanting everyone to be healthy--that's often a tired and incorrect knee jerk reaction of people that aren't the ones footing the bill but needing and wanting the services.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

The people that actually have to foot the bill for everyone knows that health care will be rationed.

Healthcare is already rationed. Those with the financial means get it, those without, not so much.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

The US spends nearly triple as much on health care per capita than the rest of the western world. So what you need to do is clear: Take the greed out of health care.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"Healthcare is already rationed. Those with the financial means get it, those without, not so much."

Thanks, dockside, that sums it up, except for one thing, the GOP likes it this way.

Hubby puts it this way, "GOP just want to get rid of those of us that are in the way. Those of us that have the audacity to cost the government and/or the health insurance industry money. It takes away from more money in their pockets and that's a No, No, with the GOP mindset. So if you ration the care to these people that are and/or get sick etc. they don't cost as much and we get rid of them, IE maybe they will die, and those wallets stay fat. On the other hand, if you allow "Obamacare" to continue on, those wallets thin out some and that can't happen. So they have to just continue to spill their lies about "Obamacare" to make sure the people believe them, those lies, and those that truly need the health insurance coverage will end up without it because there will be no "Obamacare"

That's pretty straight forward to me.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

The US spends nearly triple as much on health care per capita than the rest of the western world.

*

And people from all over the world come HERE to get treatment they can't get under other systems in other countries, or as fast.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Hubby puts it this way, "GOP just want to get rid of those of us that are in the way. Those of us that have the audacity to cost the government and/or the health insurance industry money. It takes away from more money in their pockets and that's a No, No, with the GOP mindset. So if you ration the care to these people that are and/or get sick etc. they don't cost as much and we get rid of them, IE maybe they will die, and those wallets stay fat. On the other hand, if you allow "Obamacare" to continue on, those wallets thin out some and that can't happen. So they have to just continue to spill their lies about "Obamacare" to make sure the people believe them, those lies, and those that truly need the health insurance coverage will end up without it because there will be no "Obamacare"

Yep--Mr. Littleone has it right. We've been listening to their BS for years now, when in fact they are the real death panels.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

and people from all over the world come HERE to get treatment they can't get under other systems in other countries, or as fast.

Don;t fool yourself thinking there is a running to the US for medical treatment.

There are many upper and middle income people leaving the US for medical treatments overseas. I have a friend that did chose to have her operation out of the US system.

It saved her life. She did research and found that the US did not have the drugs or talent to perform the procedure.

A lot of cancer patients leave the US for treatment because they are more advanced than America.

Over the last few years, a new trend in the healthcare industry known as Medical Tourism, is gaining popularity among highly industrialized countries like the United States. Varying reports containing medical tourism statistics put the number of American patients seeking healthcare abroad between 500,000 to 750,000 in 2007. This is a steady increase from the previous year, which medical experts believe to have been as much as 200,000 to half a million Americans traveled out of the country for medical procedures.

Here is a link that might be useful: Medical treatment


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Don;t fool yourself thinking there is a running to the US for medical treatment.

*

What do you mean "fooling myself?"

I'm not fooling anyone.

The fact that citizens from this country go to other countries for certain procedures has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that people from other countries come here to this country for often superior medical treatment, and medical treatment much faster than the waiting lines in their own country.

The fact is is there are facets of our present health care system that are attractive to some people to the point that they will travel here to avail themselves of our doctors and technology--and not only in this country.

I also know people that have had lasik surgery in South America and I know people from Europe that have come here for treatment.

SO what?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

What waiting lines? Where?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

The waiting line for the death panels!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Let's see who is eligible for procedures after age 65 or 70 in a few years under Obamacare.

Remember--when Obama was asked if health care under Obamacare would allow a pacemaker for the elderly mother of someone, Obama suggested that maybe grandma shouldn't have the pacemaker, maybe she should just take a pill.

Remember, under Obama, we will have less jobs and less income to tax, and even less money to pay for pacemakers and heart transplants and stents and bypasses and amputations and wheelchairs and insulin.

We'll all be taking pills--while there's still money for that--because we're going to have limited options--fewer doctors in practice for themselves and working instead for hospitals making a pittance of what they used to, and limited money for services.

In the meantime the waits will get longer, surgeries longer to schedule, and more doctors dropping out and not treating patients paid through the government--already so many doctors are not taking medicare patients


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So thats why the Ryan plan - cutting gvt funding further and adding another layer of for-profit insurance companies to treat the elderly - is the way to go.

Because why? Some radical conservative theory over competition in health care, never proven anywhere except in their dreams.

Smack in the face of overwhelming evidence of just what private, for-profit insurance companies do to expensive sick people when they threaten their bonuses and dividends - if they can't refuse to cover them, they use every trick in the book to deny them coverage and dump them as fast as they can.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well when you get the Medicare voucher from Romney/Ryan you certainly won't have to worry about a pacemaker. You won't be able to afford it!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Paranoia time.

It is, of course, hopeless to ask for any reasonable evidence upon which such a terrible medical future is based--since it sounds more like someone is watching too many futuristic sci fi movies.

Kate


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

maybe grandma shouldn't have the pacemaker, maybe she should just take a pill

The pills can be quite effective. A cardiologist recommended that my mother have a pacemaker when some problems arose post-hip replacement surgery. She balked and then refused. Both my brother and I pleaded that she have a pacemaker. She refused. The cardiologist tried again to convince her. She refused. She was given medication; it was effective. No pacemaker ever used, and it's been three-four years since the original incident. My brother and I were wrong.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Just more of the GOP propaganda being posted.

Many a time, a pill is far better than the risks and complications that can come with surgery with the elderly.

Conservative treatments should be though of first and attempted whenever possible, especially with the elderly, before the surgical option is discussed.

Of course, when the GOP suggest that, it is called rationed care.

When it's the GOP talking, and gutting Obamacare and starting all over again, the famous plans of the GOP,

Well,

they sure don't start talking about the rationed care that exists with the insurance companies involved, controlling the actual health care that is provided to people.

Apparently that is fine with the GOP, they have no problems with insurance companies denying coverage for people as long as the Insurance companies are making money and fattening up the shareholders wallets.

What a disgusting way to make money, off the backs of people that need the health care the most and get denied coverage because they got sick or they can't afford the costs of health insurance.

Doesn't say much for a country, a government that allows that to happen.

But,

no matter how you look at it, that is rationed health care, rationed out and given to those that can afford the cost of the insurance or obtaining the health care out of their own wallets, or they happen to be in congress and then they get the cadillac coverage for themselves and their families at the expense of the taxpayer.

Interesting, those in control of what we, the people, might have for health care reform, have the best coverage in the country and they have it at the expense of the rest of us.

And what does that say?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Shooting up the scenery now neither flipping or flopping


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Yes you have to love those talking point.

If they had watched the DNC they would have seen a young couple thankful that their daughter born with a heart defect could have the surgery to survive.

If they did not have Obamacare they would have sold their home used all their savings and still would not have had enough to pay for their daughters operations. Her daughter would have reached her max after the first operation.

Her husband was working and this was health care from his job.

But they want to save the children. Pro-life ....Right... but after they are born let the baby die at the hands of Insurance companies profit because as they call it the "Muslim Obama Care" we cannot have that it is bad.

Got to love that Pro-life morals.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Morals?! Where?! I must have missed something, Marquest... I didn't see any talk of moral obligation in health care and insurance within any of the scare tactic/talking points sputtered... I mean, uttered. ;-)

It's kind of funny when you think about it... what's the difference between paying premiums to an insurance company, which is a pool of funds that help spread risk and are then available to those who need them... and paying into a government pool of health care funds that help spread the risk and cover everyone, making care available to those who need it?

It's basically the same thing, only larger and available to more people, with more covered!

What's to fear? That someone one thinks might be undeserving could possibly obtain the health care help they so desperately need? I don't get it.

Here's a little thought of factoid: some of the very people who pay premiums to the same insurance company that might cover someone against Obamacare, are receiving that care because of poor choices made in life! Are we sure we don't want to check within our own insurance company pools for any undeserving? Good grief!

Littleone, that's exactly why my husband has not gone "under the knife" for back/neck surgery... it's too invasive, and the risk factor is too great. And then there's the expense. That aside, his doctors feel it best not to go in, and we trust they know what they're looking at. If it were a simple thing, we'd have done it years ago. So, sometimes it IS best to go with alternatives.



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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

You are right that those that already pay for themselves and those that can't or won't, are going to pay one way or another--I already pay such a high deductible I've only met it once in eight years--so I certainly pay for the health care of others, as those THAT PAY insurance companies do--that's the entire point of how insurance works.

The fear, Jodik, is the loss of control of availability and services and the quality of services that comes with more government control.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"We'll all be taking pills--while there's still money for that..."
Perhaps you should educate yourself a smidgeon about big pharma and what drug companies are doing around the world.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well, dear ninamarie, here you go again--suggesting I "should educate" myself "a smidgen about big pharma and wht drug companies are doing around the world."

First--you are making insulting personal comments to me that have nothing to do with what I said.

You quoted me before making that smart alec "suggestion" when I said, "We'll all be taking pills--while there's still money for that."

Whose money did you think I was referring to?

Individuals and the government--the money to PAY FOR THE DRUGS.

Our economy is so bad, and on the verge of a total meltdown, that there won't be the MONEY TO PAY FOR DRUGS WHETHER THEY ARE $100 a pill or $.50 a pill.

Get it?

Apparently you are just so eager beaver to slam me for some reason and insult me that you didn't even bother to try to comprehend my post.

What an exercise in futility playing with minds that look for an opportunity to insult rather than comprehend what they read.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Insurance companies ALREADY control what and how much and who! Isn't this material we've already covered? I think so.

If insurance companies weren't so greedy in scamming, and people could actually afford the coverage, don't you think more folks would pay in? I certainly do! I'd absolutely LOVE to find coverage that I could afford on my meager income... it simply doesn't exist!

I look around at all the countries that have full universal health care in action, and I can't for the life of me see what there is to complain about. And our system isn't even close to being universal or the way a lot of people wanted it!

As for big pharma... it's awfully odd that the same medications sold in other countries often cost double within the US... prices are off the charts for a lot of necessary medications! And a lot of medications pushed aren't even necessary... or are, in fact, dangerous. It's pure avarice.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I agree with you, Jodik, that the prices for medications are ridiculous in this country.

Something is wrong, too, when a prescription that I got was $180 if I had it filled (I didn't, it wasn't mandatory) and my mother could get the same prescription for $6. She's on medicare and pays for a supplemental policy.

That's not right.

It is not right that people can't afford medicine they need.
It's not right that kids get sick and their folks can't pay for medicine.

There are many good things about health care in other countries--I have had some experience with Canada's health care system and that experience was excellent.

I think we can borrow what works and eschew what doesn't.
My sincere hope is that health care in this country is reworked where everyone has some type of coverage available and yet every person had options that they now have, and that the COSTS are reduced. That's the big one, the most important, and the most difficult to address.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Do you think there is something in the Affordable Health Care that any of these things stop because of the new Health Care Law. If so can you state where in the bill it stops any of these wants you say your would like to see?

- Everyone has some type of coverage available
- Every person had options that they now have,
- COSTS are reduced. That's the big one, the most important, and the most difficult to address.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Just because the bill does not specifically state that something will not happen doesn't mean it will not happen.

The economic consequences of this bill are disastrous, in my opinion.

Let's just start with people losing their employer supported health insurance.

Let's start with the requirements of raised costs for businesses which will be passed on to citizens.

Let's start with increased taxes in the bill for many citizens.

From Smart Money, Bill Bischoff, June 2012


"Right now, the Medicare tax on salary and/or self-employment (SE) income is 2.9%. If you're an employee, 1.45% is withheld from your paychecks, and the other 1.45% is paid by your employer. If you're self-employed, you pay the whole 2.9% yourself.

Starting in 2013, an extra 0.9% Medicare tax will be charged on: (1) salary and/or SE income above $200,000 for an unmarried individual, (2) combined salary and/or SE income above $250,000 for a married joint-filing couple, and (3) salary and/or SE income above $125,000 for those who use married filing separate status. For self-employed individuals, the additional 0.9% Medicare tax hit will come in the form of a higher SE bill.

Medicare Tax on Investment Income

Right now, the maximum federal income tax rate on long-term capital gains and dividends is only 15%. Starting in 2013, the maximum rate on long-term gains is scheduled to go up to 20% and the maximum rate on dividends is scheduled to increase to 39.6% as the so-called Bush tax cuts expire.

But that's not all. Also starting in 2013, all or part of the net investment income, including long-term capital gains and dividends, collected by higher-income folks can get socked with an additional 3.8% "Medicare contribution tax." Therefore, the maximum federal rate on long-term gains for 2013 and beyond will actually be 23.8% (versus the current 15%) and the maximum rate on dividends will be a whopping 43.4% (versus the current 15%). Yikes!

The additional 3.8% Medicare tax will not apply unless your adjusted gross income (AGI) exceeds: (1) $200,000 if you're unmarried, (2) $250,000 if you're a married joint-filer, or (3) $125,000 if you use married filing separate status.

The additional 3.8% Medicare tax will apply to the lesser of your net investment income or the amount of AGI in excess of the applicable threshold. Net investment income includes interest, dividends, royalties, annuities, rents, income from passive business activities, income from trading in financial instruments or commodities, and gains from assets held for investment like stock and other securities. (Gains from assets held for business purposes are not subject to the extra tax.)

For example, a married joint-filing couple with AGI of $265,000 and $60,000 of net investment income would pay the 3.8% tax on $15,000 (the amount of excess AGI). If the same couple has AGI of $350,000, they would pay the 3.8% tax on $60,000 (the entire amount of their net investment income).

$2,500 Cap on Health-Care FSA Contributions

Right now, there's no tax-law limit on contributions to your employer's healthcare flexible spending account (FSA) plan (although many plan impose their own limits). Amounts you contribute to the FSA plan are subtracted from your taxable salary. Then you can use the funds to reimburse yourself tax-free to cover qualified medical expenses. Good deal! Starting in 2013, however, the maximum annual FSA contribution for each employee will be capped at only $2,500.

Higher Threshold for Itemized Medical Expense Deductions

Right now, you can claim an itemized deduction for medical expenses paid for you, your spouse, and your dependents, to the extent the expenses exceed 7.5% of AGI. Starting in 2013, the hurdle is raised to 10% of AGI. However, if either you or your spouse is age 65 or older at yearend, the 10%-of-AGI threshold will not take effect until 2017."

All in an economy that is on the brink of total disaster.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

demi, if your insurance policy says you must pay $180 for the same medicine your mom gets for $6, then I'd conclude you have rotten insurance and should start shopping around for a much better policy that provides better coverage.

Kate


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So Demi you are saying you want change and wish for things but you wish that everything stays the same and does not cost anything not even (7.5% of AGI. Starting in 2013, the hurdle is raised to 10% of AGI.) Do you realize how minimal that amount is? Less than 3%.

If someone says I am going to give you every wish and what you ask for and it is not going to cost you one dime. What would you think?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Well, I guess that's called "I want my cake and eat it too."

Yup, that's what it is.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

That's a pretty small increase on higher income people.

I have no problem with that at all.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

You'd have to make an awful lot of money from dividends to have them taxed at 39.6%


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I want my cake & the easy bake oven with a light bulb!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Posted by dublinbay z6 KS (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 13, 12 at 12:46

demi, if your insurance policy says you must pay $180 for the same medicine your mom gets for $6, then I'd conclude you have rotten insurance and should start shopping around for a much better policy that provides better coverage.

Kate

*

My insurance doesn't cover prescriptions.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

My insurance doesn't cover prescriptions.

Well you are going to hit that 10% of AGI easy if you get pnemonia or stomp your toe and get an infection, any accident they happen it is life. We do not live in Alice in Wonderland. So you will not have any trouble meeting 10%.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

My goodness Demi, your premiums for an insurance plan that would cover prescrption drugs and has a much smaller deductible must be huge!

I am very sure you would have done the business case and found it cheaper for you to pay for your own drugs and up to 10k in medical bills yearly than pay the premiums that would mitigate that. If you did not incur any medical bills that might be a good choice but you did say that you in fact have had significant medical bills each year.

How on earth do average middle income earners ever afford reasonable healthcare?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Some of us take lousy wages, and consider (and rightly so), the good health insurance a major part of our wages.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I'm sorry that in order to have adequate health coverage you have to work for lousy wages. That's truly sad.....but what about those with out employer paid insurance? What do they do?


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"The US spends nearly triple as much on health care per capita than the rest of the western world."
Yeah EDD got a crappy walker leaving the hospital billed at $160. The Pharmacy just got him a better 1 Under $75 the one from the Hospital already broken.
How many Frauds have I posted on here this year in the Hundreds of Millions privatized fraud is rampant in this country. Just this past month HCA was back in the papers as performing large numbers of cardiac procedures in cath labs that the doctors couldn't justify.
We spend an inordinate amount of money for waste.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 13, 12 at 20:52

"I'm sorry that in order to have adequate health coverage you have to work for lousy wages. That's truly sad...."

No, it's not.

"...but what about those with out employer paid insurance? What do they do?"

They buy insurance, if they can. Or hope they stay healthy. Or go broke paying medical bills. Once they no longer have income or extra assets, they get free medical care. Now, that's sad.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

They buy insurance, if they can. Or hope they stay healthy. Or go broke paying medical bills. Once they no longer have income or extra assets, they get free medical care. Now, that's sad.

No, they don't get free medical care. Far to many people have been denied medical care because their insurance company cancelled their insurance because they became ill and then went to use it.

Far to many people lost their health insurance coverage because the insurance company claimed they lied on their application. Lies like they forgot to list that they had their tonsils removed when they where somewhere between 6-9 years old and they are 60 years old when they lost the insurance because of not listing it.

Far to many people denied health insurance because of a pre-existing illness or they maxed out on the insurance that they had.

Free medical care is far from the way things happen.

People don't get free medical care, free treatments for cancer, or anything else. Very basic care can be free, some from medicaid, but try to use that for treatment for disease that will kill you without long term treatment, cancer etc. you don't get it.
and that's just the beginning of the health insurance problems in this country.

But, people like elvis will tell you something different, can't let the country go to single payer, national health coverage.

Heavens forbid we become something like those socialist countries, or actually care about the people in this country.

Don't let the, so called, Obamacare actually continue to be law. Heavens, that wouldn't be any good, the Democrats got that through and it's good for the people and this country.

Got to make sure the health insurance companies, the prescription insurance companies, the CEO's they get all their money and to bad for those that can't afford it.

Yup, kick them to the curb and just let them die. Didn't take personal responsibility, to bad for them.

The amount of money that is wasted in this country to keep the health insurance industry happy, healthy and wealthy is disgusting, to say the least.
The worst of it is that we don't get better health care, our results are not better than any other country, we have nothing but poor health care coverage to show for it, people dying for no reason and a government that has allowed it to go on for generation after generation.

Now we have one political party that had the guts to do something about it and the opposing political party that wants to stop the health care reform gut it and start all over again.

What a joke that idea is, starting all over again.

nothing but a smoke screen from the opposition, they don't want any changes to the health care industry or the health of the people, that would mean less money in the top industry wallets. can't let that happen.

It gets more and more disgusting by the day to hear the GOP rant on the horrors of "Obamacare". and they do it with nothing but lies, lies and more lies.

Pathtetic


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

littleonefb, I would like to add to your rant.

Our Congress worked a total of 103 days this year. or Should say they were in DC for 103 dys. They make 174.00 a year most are have a personal wealth of at least a million and have extremely good health care and unlimited sick days. They even have health care policy choices. No max on their insurance. But they have convinced people that we the tax payers should pay for their insurance but for goodness sake you do not want that for yourself.

The Social Security that we work for noooooo they are not in that pathetic program. So they are all to eager to cut that off. It does not have anything to do with their retirement. They have their own it is our tax dollars that will pay them when they retire.

So when I hear our citizens say that they do not think a 4 year old should live because they do not want ObamaCare I can only scratch my head. I want to cry to realize how easily led our citizens have become.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Marquest, more than happy to have you add to my "rant" and anyone else that thinks marquest and I left anything out, please feel free to add to it.

Yes it is pathetic to think that their are citizens that would rather see a child die or anyone die because they don't want Obamacare, well there really aren't any words to describe it.

All the, "that's not what I said, I don't want that" BUT, obamacare got shoved down our throats or any of the other absurdities that are said, are really saying exactly that. Let people die, let children die. Get rid of Obamacare and start all over again.

Been there, done that. and it will not get done, it hasn't before and it won't now. nothing will be done to change health care, protect he citizens of this country if Obamacare is gutted as the GOP want.

The lives of the people of this country are on the line, this election year. The future of this country is on the line this year and putting in the R&R ticket is the biggest disaster that could befall this country.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Greed, and the bigotry to justify the greed. Trying to get them to support the concept of solidarity with and compassion for other people is a waste of time.

Yeah EDD got a crappy walker leaving the hospital billed at $160. The Pharmacy just got him a better 1 Under $75 the one from the Hospital already broken.
How many Frauds have I posted on here this year in the Hundreds of Millions privatized fraud is rampant in this country. Just this past month HCA was back in the papers as performing large numbers of cardiac procedures in cath labs that the doctors couldn't justify.
We spend an inordinate amount of money for waste.

Ya...I remember them threads. Sank like a rock.

The answer is clear: Keep the greedy away from health care.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Those hospital charges are like some kind of conspiracy or something and I've often wondered if the insurance companies are in on it and some how they both make out like bandits on the sides of profits.

How many of you ever see the actual hospital bill that is sent to the insurance companies for a hospitalization? If you have have any of you actually gone down and read each little item that is billed and figured out if you actually used what was charged to you?

It can be a real experience, believe me.

4 day hospital stay after surgery Sept 2011.

I still shake my head in amazement at the bill, the insurance companies reaction to my call and demands to not pay some of the bill and the threats that had to be made to get them to do it. threats that I would involve the state's attorney general if they didn't do something about not paying for charges that were incorrect.

I actually went at them and questioned if they ever actually read the bill, used a brain to think about what was being billed and then used some common sense.

They thought I was insane, totally crazy as I pointed out such things as

1. hospital room charge 4 days. correct

2. IV charges for 11 days hospitalization. nope. no IV charges at all except in the OR. OOPS $4200 incorrect charge

3. 24 days of narcotic opiate pain meds. $4200 charge. only in hospital 4 days, no narcotic opiate pain meds ever administered, allergic to them OOPS $4200 incorrect charge

4. 14 days of antibiotic sulfa drugs administered. $3500. only in hospital 4 days, anaphylactic to sulfa drugs. none given, $3500 incorrect charge

5. pair of crutches, walker, cane $675 charge. none of which where given. I had my own cane. another incorrect charge of $675

6. 20 days use of a "portable toilet", never seen, never used, charge $2100 for. another incorrect charge.

Grand total of $14,675 in over charges that where just automatically paid to the hospital.

No one does their job, who knows how the errors in billing came about. don't know if was an error or was deliberate. But one would think that the insurance company would have checked things out.

But the worst of it was that when I got the copy of the bill, and called the insurance company, they where furious with me for complaining and demanding that something be done to correct the payment.

It took days of arguing with them, going from one level to another, and threatening to bring in MA state officials to get them to do something.

I also complained to the hospital billing dept. and the most I got was an apology for the error. Heck, it didn't come out of my wallet, except for my $100 co-pay.
I wanted something done about the errors in their billing dept. and something done to be sure things like this don't happen again and money is paid to the hospital that they are not owed.

But this is how the system works without health care reform. no one is accountable for anything, the insurance companies can do as they wish, pay as they wish, not check anything out and everyone gets rich but the patients. they get screwed to the wall.

Tis the greedy under this system that does it in.

Maddie is right "keep the greedy away from health care."


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Elvis, I disagree.

It is indeed very sad if anyone must work for lousy wages just so they can get healthcare. Why are the wages lousy? Are they being kept down by the employer because they have to pay healthcare costs? Are healthcare benefits only available in lousy paying jobs?

Just more evidence to me that healthcare must be separated from employment.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

It's even better when the insurance company flat out refuses to cover any of the cost, even though they are liable according to the policy issued. And it's ever so much fun to require an attorney to get anywhere, and even they can't manage to make the company take responsibility beyond a small offering through negotiations... leaving the poor patient hanging on the line for the full cost of an accident that was not their fault... and the suggestion is to sue the actual people at fault, at the civil level, for the full cost, except that they don't have anything to pay it with either, and later, can't be found. So, in the end, you're supposed to walk away from it all holding a piece of paper... the court's judgment on the whole thing... and the bill for the whole shebang, including hospital, ambulance, attorney's fees and court costs. Right.

Oh, and you're also supposed to either suffer with the injuries you sustained in the accident, or pay out of pocket for everything you might need as a result... because, you know, the insurance company CEO doesn't make enough money, already.

It's absolutely ridiculous the way our health care and insurance systems operate... both health care insurance and the auto insurance companies, when it comes to covering medical costs.

Now, if you happen to be a bigger fish in the ocean, and you can afford to retain the best in lawyers, then you might have a shot at recovering some of what you lost, or receiving some kind of compensation. At the very least, you may get the bills paid. Otherwise... who cares? You're just another little minnow swimming in a giant ocean filled with sharks. Find an attorney that will take his cut out of what's recovered, you say? Well, sure... if you can recover anything. But when there's nothing to recover, it's a total loss.

There. That's my addition to the rant. We have a horrid system when it comes to health care and helping those who don't, or can't, earn enough to help themselves. God forbid we toss one penny toward someone less fortunate. It's much more fun to trip someone, then kick them when they're down.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

All the, "that's not what I said, I don't want that" BUT, obamacare got shoved down our throats or any of the other absurdities that are said, are really saying exactly that. Let people die, let children die. Get rid of Obamacare and start all over again.

It is bad for you to have Affordable Health Care but it is okay for us to have Health Care paid by you the tax payer.

It is bad to call it Affordable Health Care. If we make you call it ObamaCare and since we know you do not like Obama you are easy prey, ripe to get you to believe you do not want Affordable Health Care in this Country.

I can see them in their meetings with the agenda:

How to fool the fools.
-Tell them we did not read the bill. They know we cannot read they will believe that statement. We all know facts are not their friend. Great applause for themselves.

- Next we tell them people will get free healthcare that do not deserve it because they do not want to work. Applause......

-Tell them that their company insurance would never go up if there is no ObamaCare they will forget that their insurance has been going up every year. Applause.

-In closing Go out tell the people what to think repeat it over and over and they will believe you.

-The insurance lobbyist will give us lots of money for fooling the people and we can continue to get our good insurance, pay check and low numbers of work days.

WOW all is good for us those American citizens had better listen to us.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

demi, the fact remains that you have lousy insurance and should shop around to get better insurance--and forget the high deductible. When it comes to your health, you cannot afford it.

As to drug coverage, my health insurance does not cover it also. That is why I have separate drug coverage. And that is why you should go out and get separate drug coverage. I don't mean this as a put-down, but you and I are getting older, and I assure you, the older you get, the more medicine you are going to have to take. And if I ever have a major medical condition, I can't imagine how I could afford the medicine required if I didn't have drug coverage.

Geesh woman--do something about it other than complain how little benefit you get from a high-deductible health insurance policy and no drug coverage!

Kate


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Now, if you happen to be a bigger fish in the ocean, and you can afford to retain the best in lawyers, then you might have a shot at recovering some of what you lost, or receiving some kind of compensation.

*

How many times do you need to be told about attorneys taking accident and personal injury cases on a CONTINGENCY basis and you're not out any money to pay for an attorney? I have WORKED THESE CASES.

People as poor as a church mouse and people with millions--it's doesn't matter, a personal injury case with merit is taken on contingency fee basis and the injured party is not required to pay the lawyer an hourly fee or in most instances, even pay costs (like a filing fee) until they receive a settlement, at which time the attorney takes out his fee and the injured party receives the remainder.

For goodness' sake, insurance companies offer settlements all the time to cases WITH NO MERIT just as a nuisance settlement so they don't have to incur the legal expenses to fight the nuisance case.

Something isn't right if you were hurt as you say you were, the drivers were insured, and you couldn't find an attorney you didn't have to pay and wound up with nothing.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

PS--Kate, I'm not complaining.

How many times have I said that our health care system should be overhauled, separated from employment, and that people should have a choice in their coverage?

I would like to just have catastrophic coverage, because that's basically what I'm paying for.

I'm looking at other policies, have done comparisons, and there is another company that is a little better. I am in fact getting older and there is the possibility that I may need to take prescription meds at some time in he future, or get sick or injured.

The insurance policy we instituted when we retired was the best choice for us at the time, and it's still a good deal for me, considering the alternatives. Don't worry, I have gotten through life making careful and considered decisions and know how to research and make good financial decisions.

Basically, as we all have noted, I'm paying for others right now, and one day others may pay for me. That's how it works. But there is too much disparity in who pays how much and what benefits people receive.

As long as the government is involved, hospital bills like the one outlined (and yes, I've done the same thing, when I I had the first of my spinal surgeries and looked over the bill--found I was charged for diapers and maternity supplies (yea right I was a teenager and not that kind of teenager), and other hospitalizations I've seen double charges in the thousands of dollars and gotten the same response when I complained or pointed it out to the insurance company or hospital.

It's a racket.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Just one thing with those catastrophic, hospitalization only policies that won't cover prescription medicines.

The chemo prescription meds for cancer, auto-immune diseases such as MS, and others are unbelievably expensive - $10,000 - $60,000 a month easily.

And then you find out your policy won't cover it. Which is what happened to me and IVIG treatments, thats a prescription drug, and currently to a friend fighting cancer whose chemo bills are north of $10,000 a month for 18 months now. They're losing everything they own.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Another example, although on a much smaller scale --

After my son was born, I received a bill from the anesthesiologist. It said my insurance denied it. I was going to pay it because I didn't know any better. It was not a lot of money. A few hundred, I think. I happened to mention it to my brother, who is a doctor. He told me that insurance has to pay it. Since the hospital my son was born in is in the insurance company's network, they have to pay the doctor associated with the hospital. He gave me the name of the law that said they had to pay it. Told me to call insurance and tell them they were responsible and give them the law's name. I did that. They immediately said ok, we will pay it.

Now, if I didn't happen to mention this to my brother, I would have paid that bill and insurance would not have. It made me wonder how many times this happens and people don't know and they pay it even though their insurance should have covered it.

It's a racket! Nobody should be allowed to be in the health care business to make money. Single payer, or at the least, they have to be non profit.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Romney and Ryan are not stupid men.

Ryan, in his speech today, said that they would repeal ALL PARTS of Obamacare.

And I respectfully disagree...they are stupid men.

-Ron-


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Oooooops that'd not what his boss said.......makes you wonder about all this brilliant handlers.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I agree, Jill... many areas of health care should be non-profit. I can't imagine anyone placing love of money over the suffering of human beings, but we see it every day.

Complacency and simply not being aware play roles, too... how many people are familiar with the complicated systems within the law and health care and insurances, and how many people just pay bills without looking at the details? And then, how many people can afford some of those charges?

Ron, I can't imagine why Romney doesn't like something that was partially his idea in the first place, or at least he worked within that sort of health care framework when governor of MA, no? So, why all the negativity? It doesn't make much sense, and so I concur... how smart can they be? What would they have in place of what has become known as Obamacare? Nothing? Probably.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I agree, Jill... many areas of health care should be non-profit. I can't imagine anyone placing love of money over the suffering of human beings, but we see it every day.

Complacency and simply not being aware play roles, too... how many people are familiar with the complicated systems within the law and health care and insurances, and how many people just pay bills without looking at the details? And then, how many people can afford some of those charges?

Ron, I can't imagine why Romney doesn't like something that was partially his idea in the first place, or at least he worked within that sort of health care framework when governor of MA, no? So, why all the negativity? It doesn't make much sense, and so I concur... how smart can they be? What would they have in place of what has become known as Obamacare? Nothing? Probably.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Romney doesn't want to cut too much Government spending in the budget & will not balance it right off because that would kill jobs. But the Government does not create jobs with it's spending. HMNN. HUH?
This guys tricky Bruce Bartlett also says his math is pretty wonky & that the studies Mitt cites as proof of his plan veracity would require a concrete plan to compare it to & that plan doesn't exist beyond a sketch & there's some problems with the math even in the sketch ~


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

So... is that a flip? Or a flop? I'm confused.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

He's a mouthy monty player! Doesn't want a trillion in cuts in his first year because it will cost job's. Does't explain that connection unless cutting $1 Billion for the Government spending I think Bill Clinton called is Simple Arithmetic.
Regan Stimulus Great Bush Stimulus Great Obama Stimulus Socialism.
I'll balance the Budget by the end of my 2nd Term Mr Romney says.
No Trillion in cuts either but it was the republi tea things that were demanding cuts & it is the Palin thing wants a big stick but when the Obama man uses the big stick the wailers on this forum cry.

Oh and none of the crap in the middle east would have happened because Romney has a new Detergent deoderant toothpaste hair care product RESOLVE!


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

"Balance the Budget". Yeah. HIS budget.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Keep repeating things any maybe it will come true:

Mitt Romney repeatedly insisted Wednesday that he is running to represent "100 percent" of America and that he has a record of being inclusive.

"My campaign is about the 100 percent of America," Romney said in a forum sponsored by the Spanish-language network Univision.

And what else does he say to people that watch Univision?

Addressing a large Hispanic audience, Romney tempered his rhetoric on the subject of immigration - insisting his policy will not be to "round up people and deport them."

"Our system isn't to deport people," Romney insisted.

Well, how do you like THAT, nik? He is not planning to deport people. Maybe he'll just offshore all their jobs and they'll self-deport themselves?

Here is a link that might be useful: source


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

He flipped again on Wed. Or is it flopped? I lost track.

Mitt Romney pledged to repeal Obamacare in its entirety on Wednesday evening, but joked that he would be happy to be known as the grandfather of the federal law. "Now and then the president says I'm the grandfather of Obamacare. I don't think he meant that as a compliment, but I'll take it," Romney said at a Univision forum, adding, "this was during my primary we thought it might not be helpful."

Romney went on to praise the success of reform in Massachusetts, noting that almost every child now has access to health insurance. The former governor recently raised the ire of conservatives for saying, during an appearance on Meet The Press, that he would maintain some parts of the federal law. He steered clear of that tonight.

It's great in MA where almost every child now has access to health insurance...but terrible for the country and I'll repeal it "in its entirety".

He really does think we're stupid, doesn't he?

Here is a link that might be useful: Flip or Flop


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

He really does think we're stupid, doesn't he?

No just his base. They have said the Smart people will not support them.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Maybe that's why Ryan has been in short supply lately...


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

Ryan is probably in Wisconsin's 1st. Congressional district campaigning hard to keep his seat. For once in his 14 years, he appears to have a credible opponent in Rob Zerban. Can't have too many back up plans.

A thought to entertain - losing both positions! Plenty of lobbying jobs left though; just ask Pawlenty.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

No thanks... unless it's for a truly good and decent cause.


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RE: OK Ready for a Flip or a Flop

I heard Ryan gave a "pep" talk to the House GOP in the last day or so. Told them not to pay attention to polls ... and didn't even mention the Mitt video issue.


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